Guild Wars 2

PizzaSHARK.2741:

I’m surprised you’re taking Sure-Footed over Dogged March. The extra uptime on Balanced Stance is probably nice to have, but Dogged March is just… really, really good considering where it’s located in the tree.

I’d be leery of stacking Immobilize duration, though; it’s actually pretty easy to cure Crippled and Immobilize, so if they figured out your general attack plan and waited until after you’d used Pin Down and Throw Bolas, they could cure the Immobilize and you’d be left with your thumb up your kitten .

I’d suggest something like Bull’s Rush, but then they could get out of it with a stun break effect… Hmm.

How dedicated are you to Burning Arrows? You could drop the ten points in Tactics and get 10 in Discipline for either Warrior’s Sprint or Signet Mastery; if you did that, you could Dogged March and use Dolyak Signet instead of Balanced Stance as your stun break/stability skill.

Sure Footed doesn’t currently effect Balanced Stance – but it makes the duration of Berserker Stance 10 seconds. Those extra 2 seconds can be really handy. You can sub out SF for DM but I personally enjoy having the higher up-time on BS.

Condition removing skills prioritize the most recently applied condition, this is where Impale shines. Due to it being applied over time, passive removal will tend to remove the Torment – only to have it instantly reapply. You also have Burning and even the Bleeds to bury the Immobilize.

I did consider putting those 10 points in Discipline but having Pin Down and Bolas on the same CD makes the whole build run much smoother.

Your suggestions aren’t bad, and you can modify it how you please, I just feel this is the optimal setup with what I have in mind.

Kavia.8249:

I would be happy to update this chart with the new meta. I would need matchups for these builds:

D/P thief (prelim matchups here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Matchup-Chart-Project-8-12-13/page/2#post2622445)
Sw+Sw/Bow condition warrior
Revised necro build? Power necro?
Power ranger?
Hammer/Bow warrior probably replaces mace+shield/greatsword warrior on chart

I could probably expand it to max 2 builds per profession, but would definately need help on matchups at that point

I feel like an updated list will require a TON more builds, because not only does Warrior have a good amount of viable builds now, each one of those has one or multiple counters, which you only really see really good teams in TPvP running atm. In SoloQ and Hotjoin you still generally still see your standard condition Necros and Spirit Rangers, which I believe is why you see so many Warriors now. Why wouldn’t you switch to the class that has a hard counter to two of the other popular builds? If you ask me it’s their fault for not even attempting to adapt to Warriors.

If you have the time, I would find a group of decent players of each class that are willing to run multiple 1v1s so you have the most accurate list possible.

One issue that anyone who has ever tried to make a condition based Warrior has had to overcome is the fact that the player has to be in melee range in order to keep the pressure going. Now that Immobilize can stack in duration, landing all those bleeds has been made much easier. A quick disclaimer, I know this isn’t at all an original concept as everyone probably went out and tried to make a build like this after the changes. I just haven’t seen anyone put forth a build on here, if they did it was buried under “Nerf Warrior” threads.

Flurry of Immobilization

Conveniently, with the Burning Arrows trait Pin Down and Bolas have the same cooldown. I would suggest only using Bolas after using Pin Down considering it can be hard to get it to land on a moving target otherwise. Note that because you do not have trait points in Discipline your weapon swap time is the normal 10 seconds so you have to plan out things for maximum effectiveness. Some potential combos are as follows:

From no adrenaline: Pin Down -> Bolas -> Switch -> Impale -> Savage Leap -> Flurry

From no adrenaline: Pin Down -> Bolas -> Switch -> Impale -> Riposte -> Flurry

At full adrenaline: Combustive Shot -> Pin Down -> Bolas -> Switch -> Impale -> Savage Leap -> Flurry

At full adrenaline: Combustive Shot -> Pin Down -> Bolas -> Fan of Fire (at melee range) -> Arching Arrow (not a ton of damage but 3 stacks of Might)

At full adrenaline: Savage Leap -> Flurry -> Impale -> Riposte

Some of these are only to be used if you are in-between swap cooldowns but need to keep up the pressure.

I’m not totally convinced that immobilize stacking in duration is the best idea, but that being said it opens things up not only for new builds but also allows other classes besides Warrior to fill the role of lockdown. A good compromise could be to have stun breakers remove it as well.

While I have no problem with you discussing the immobilize changes please keep the main focus on the build.

Ashanor.5319:

Excalibur.9748:

Ashanor.5319:

Excalibur.9748:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I speak for the opposite camp on this one. I have no issue with warrior’s. I really don’t see what the fuss is about. I see them get dropped by single targets..I see them get dropped by mobs..the same as every other profession. However, I do understand many would like things easier rather than just get better.

We already know warriors have no issues with other warriors, that’s why everyone is rerolling one if not already playing one.

Yes, and many non warrior players who aren’t bad don’t have problems with warrior either. Of course “Excalibur”, players like yourself are excluded from this. Do you even sPvP because last time you were whining about warrior you were a bad and undergeared WvW S/D thief. Mind posting your PvP stats?

Already posted. Look in my post history if you wanna see it. And stop stalking me bro. It’s getting creeeepy.

Done.

http://i.imgur.com/1JaXd71.jpg

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Arguments-in-favor-of-healing-signet/page/4#post2943796

Sorry, but you don’t have the experience to talk about sPvP balance. If you want to talk about WvW balance, there is a place for that… the WvW forums.

In case you are wondering why I can’t (and nobody should) take your sPvP posts serious, it is because at 10 minutes a game (reasonable assumption) you have only spent 13.66 hours in sPvP. By comparison I have spent 375.83 hours (2,255 games) in sPvP. I have over double your total played time on ranger, and I don’t even play ranger. Guardian, a class I have only briefly dabbled with, has nearly as many games as your total. Thief, which is my second most played class has 798 games played. Warrior has 1,094 games played.

Ah yes, this is why I never take anything he says on PvP seriously. While time played does not necessarily make someone an expert, you should at least have a decent amount of time spent playing the game mode before you start judging what is OP and UP.

It’s clear most of his opinions about Warrior come from WvW, a game mode where class balance isn’t nearly as important as gear, food, numbers, and coordination.

The key to beating any lockdown Warrior is to force them to use their utility skills, all of which are defensive and on lengthy cooldowns, kite them for the duration, then take them out while they are vulnerable.

The longer you drag it out, the more likely the Warrior is going to win. Apply just enough conditions to bait out Zerker Stance, then switch switch to either avoiding combat or using direct damage. For example as a Necro you can use the golem’s knock down to bait out balanced stance then use Shroud if they get close. One it’s down again use just enough conditions to bait out a burst if they didn’t use it while Zerker Stance was up, then unload your heavy hitters.

Most Necros I face just throw out all their skills during Zerker stance then get mad when they have nothing to use when it runs out. If you force them to use their utilities right at the start of the fight you’ll give yourself an early advantage.

Alternatively, just bring a Mesmer designed to be anti-Warrior just as Warriors are brought to be anti-conditions.

a t s e.9614:

Sure , the unspec foes trait is broken. It cost only 10 points to get a 50% crit with nearly all your hammer skills and mace skills. Other classes have high crit traits in grandmaster. Like thief hidden killer which mainly applies to Backstab.

Mesmers are a free kill seriously I don’t how you can suggest playing mesmer in pvp.
Completly useless . I stomp them on my D/D thief with a PVE build. And on warrior … lol I feel bad for them. Conditions cant beat warriors because of cleansing ire btw.
Even necros are almost a free kill , you just pop berserker stance and you have 8 seconds to burst it down.

You…you’re just wrong.

Read Unsuspecting Foe’s description. It only gives you the crit bonus vs stunned foes. Meaning it only affects Earthshaker.

Also, as has been said many times, you can’t directly compare traits of different class to each other.

If they focus on adding counter rather than just buffing base stats you can mostly avoid the power creep problem.

For example, Warriors can make themselves very strong vs conditions, but that same build is more vulnerable to power based builds. If everything strong has a counter then things stay in balance.

Right now, the game should be better balanced, but you aren’t seeing many people playing Mesmers. Now that conditions are being held in check by Warriors, Mesmers can server not only as a means to counter them, but Portal and Moa are always a welcome addition to a team.

They were always a really strong class but because their Achilles heel was conditions. Buffing them too much vs conditions wouldn’t be wise because they would possibly skyrocket into Godhood.

Moral of the story, hate Warrior? Play Mesmer.

P.S. Stop suggesting moving Unsuspecting Foe to Grandmaster. No sane person is going to trait into a line that focuses on precision and condition damage when using a Hammer or Mace.

Excalibur.9748:

Barret.4095:

I love how that in the span of 4-5 months the QQ went from Necro > S/D Thieves > Spirit Rangers > Warrior and without really any significant changes. I wonder what the next one is gonna be. Can’t wait till a decent player comes up with the new fotm build and everyone can hop on the next QQ banwagon.

Necro was nerfed.
Spirit ranger was nerfed.
S/D thief was nerfed.

The next one is still gonna be warrior until it gets nerfed or another class gets significantly buffed to counter it.

All those nerfs were very small, all 3 of those are still viable (not 100% sure about Thief, someone enlighten me). What most people propose are wide-sweeping changes that would totally change the class. Nobody complained about Cleansing Ire, Zerker Stance, Brawn, or weapon buffs until Healing was changed. It took all those puzzle pieces come together to get Warrior where they are now, so it stands to reason that messing with too much will flip the table the puzzle is laying on.

Fourth.1567:

Alright, the misinformation on both sides needs to stop.

Warrior, yes they are on the strong side of things. Also some things on the warrior are too forgiving.

So how do we adjust this to keep both sides happy? First lets remove some of the forgiving mechanics.

1) Burst skills – Always lose adrenaline on use
2) Brawn – Remake it again. Cd reduction doesn’t fit, it creates problems with threat frequency vs dodge frequency. Armor pen makes more sense, pre patch weren’t we looking for a way to help warriors deal with bunkers specifically whereas cd reduction helps other matchups as well which we don’t want.
3) Berserker’s stance – Drop duration to 5s and cd to 50s which is a 25% reduction in uptime.
4) healing signet – Reduce hps but make the active give endurance on use.
5) Cleansing Ire – Reduce adrenaline gain on hit from 3% to 2%.

So what has happened here? Active mechanics are more emphasized and power has been shifted away from skill spam with more value place on an individual skill. I think this is a good amount of ‘shaving’ or as I prefer walking up to the dart board and directly placing it in the center.

Now lets look at specific weapon sets and how they are interacted with. Ideally shifting power as opposed to changing power.

Longbow – #5 lets increase the reaction time available while slightly reducing the cd. Might as well reduce those bleed stacks while were at it. So numerically lets roughly put this into context:
cast time increased from 0.25s to 0.5
Travel velocity decreased by 20%
decrease recharge to 20s
Then we need some trails to help differentiate each bow skill because my god the animations were just copy and pasted. Common seriously…. No cast bars means skills need to look different. Though really with how bad the animations are cast bars are probably the only reasonable out.

1. Could use its cast time increased from 0.25s to 0.5s
2. Now lets put some power back on. Increase damage by 20%. For context axe autos have 3x higher dps.
3. Could use a bit extra utility, like weakness or vuln

Mace needs a similar approach, increase how readable the important skills are while moving some of that power to less appreciated skills.

1) Would actually be a buff because it would probably trigger Cleansing Ire.
2) Before the Disicipline line gave a near-worthless buff, anything it would be replaced with runs a risk of greatly reducing the power of Burst skills in general.
3) This would make the skill not much better than when it was 6 seconds on a 60 second CD, which few players used because Signet of Stamina was better. What you propose would give it a mere 10% uptime, I personally would probably go back to the Signet as well.
4) Wouldn’t be of any use because adrenaline isn’t exactly hard to gain, and rebalancing adrenaline gain around 1 skill isn’t likely to happen.
5) I don’t see this making a major impact.

Also, what’s with the hate on Pin Down recently? The arrow has a very clear animation (it has a swirly effect around it that looks nothing like other arrow attacks), and reducing it’s travel time by that much will probably lead to it not landing consistently. Most of the builds with it don’t focus on condition damage but why punish those that do?

I’ll agree on Mace readability, but they better give Skull Crack a cool animation so using it can be satisfying. Although it’s mostly a problem with Asura character models, you can see the difference in animation on human sized characters.

I’ll give you props on trying to remain somewhat reasonable, but the problem is you are nerfing almost every buff Warriors have received during this last year. Warrior’s didn’t come into the meta until the healing buffs, so nerfing any of the things that were buffed previously, especially the healing, may throw them out of the meta overnight.

Kentrey.3251:

Ashanor.5319:

/sigh

Not worth my time. Go ahead and keep screaming for nerfs people. Eventually the nerf bat comes back around to you.

Noone is screaming dude. This thread was about warriors not being as OP as everyone claims. This thread isn’t right. It isn’t wrong But it sure as heck isn’t right.

Warriors are very close to what everyone say. Its exxaggered because they say they tank 100%, Deal Dmg, 100%, and Condition 100% and they dont’ do all that in one build. But over the course of 3 builds they counter/outclass pretty much 100% of the other professions.

Noone wants them back to where they were right after the quickness nerf. I’m glad to see them beating peoples faces in. Just in terms of PvP there isn’t a reason not to play warrior. And currently it invalidates almost all the other classes.

I don’t want to see them beat with a nerf bat. I would just enjoy seeing them brought to the level of other classes. (not all classes brought up to them. Because juggernauts fighting in a room full of juggernauts doesn’t really sound fun)

The exaggerations also include being able to do things that a single build can’t do. You’ll hear people saying that they have AoE stuns, a bow, and great mobility, which is impossible with a Hambow build. It’s a combination of the Mace/GS build and the Hambow build, you give up something on both builds whether it be AoE or mobility. These claims were seen constantly on 2 particular threads that were on the Warrior forums front page for almost a month.

Excalibur was particularly guilty of this (wasn’t going to mention by name until they showed up here), they posted pictures of their PvP stats and it turned out they had played hardly any PvP. I may not be a PvP expert, but I at least play it frequently. I felt like I had wasted my time arguing with someone who wasn’t qualified to weigh in on the subject.

There are also plenty of posts in those threads that are using WvW experiences to justify PvP nerfs. WvW will probably always be a unbalanced mess simply due to differences in gear, food buffs, and other buffs. Not to mention numbers and coordination is the true deciding factor. Using WvW as a justification for nerfs makes no sense.

I’m going to maintain that Warriors are the only thing keeping the condition meta at bay. If they are nerfed without the condition builds being nerfed, they will go right back to being the dominate playstyle, a fact many seem to be ignoring. If ANet does tone down conditions then sure, Warriors can be toned back as well, but until then they need to stay as is.

Forsaker.9213:

war is OP , no way :P

http://pl.twitch.tv/forsaker_/c/3130544

How rare, a video where the Necro waits until the Warrior uses its Berserker Stance and Burst before unloading their conditions and keeps the Warrior from gaining more adren which keeps them from cleansing the conditions. You also didn’t stand in the Combustive Shot. Good use of the environment to make things even easier on yourself.

I can’t totally tell if you’re being sarcastic or not though. I mean the video shows you destroying a Warrior running Hambow but the way you wrote it sounds sarcastic.

Avead.5760:

BurrTheKing.8571:

DXIEdge.2789:

Right now Healing signet is more powerful (twice as much in fact) than Ele Signet. And Ele’s DO NOT have twice as much EHP (Effective HP) to warrant this…

Either nerf it or revert Ele’s Signet Heal Nerf…preferabbly the former

You can not directly compare two healing skills of different classes. There are so many other mechanics to take into account such as boons, traits, and other sources of healing.

Yeah obviously..thats why you see tanky eles surviving forever dealing damage and ccing everything in soloq,right?.. RIGHT?? :p

So it’s Healing Signets fault that Ele is weak? Sounds like you should be proposing buffs for Ele, because I doubt that ANet is going to bring every class back down to that level.

Littlefeather.8623:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I want to see Eles made into bunkers that are comparable to Guardians. That class has dominated the mid bunker role since launch and it would be nice to see another class being able to do the same thing in a different way.

lol.

You ever seen
Bunker Engi?
Bunker Ranger?
Bunker Necro?
Bunker Warrior?

Umm, no I really haven’t ever seen a successful team use one of those as a mid bunker. Maybe a home bunker, but none of what you listed would be as good as a Guardian at mid bunker.

DXIEdge.2789:

Right now Healing signet is more powerful (twice as much in fact) than Ele Signet. And Ele’s DO NOT have twice as much EHP (Effective HP) to warrant this…

Either nerf it or revert Ele’s Signet Heal Nerf…preferabbly the former

You can not directly compare two healing skills of different classes. There are so many other mechanics to take into account such as boons, traits, and other sources of healing.

Loco.4561:

To the OP, I was going to respond to you in another thread, mainly because your sentiments towards players is “Learn to Play” and you seem to assume that everyone that complains about Warriors at the moment doesn’t run with any stun breakers and is essentially a moron.

While I agree that Warriors CC can be counter-played against and it can TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, you can only effectively kite for so long, before everything you have is on CD, you have no more vigor and you get caught. Stun-Breakers are on a disproportionate timer to the CC a warrior can apply. Some professions do better than others, Thieves (S/D Evade Builds) and Mesmers are probably the best at counter playing a Warriors CC spam. Your answer to everyone seems to be “use stun-breakers” people ARE using stun breakers, it’s still not enough.

Warriors survivability is too high and this is purely down to Healing Signet and in some degrees Adrenal Health, but mostly down to that Signet. People have posted numbers to back this up, someone in another thread suggested a reduction in it’s base heal tick, but let it scale with healing power, so you HAVE to spec to get that extra healing, maybe at the cost of damage, it’s a good balanced suggestion. At present that signet heals for too much and just add’s to the problem.

I rolled a warrior alt, just too see what the fuss is about, I am in no way an expert in Wars or melee professions for that matter, I main Necro, Mesmer and recently Guardian for sPvP/tPvP. I do know the abilities of professions and would say I’m above average. I can literally lock down anyone and they can’t do much about it. The only professions I had issues fighting were S/D Evade Thieves and PU Mesmers. A ranger managed to kite me for a while using bow evade spam, but I eventually caught him and it was quite an easy kill once I pinned him down. The damage you can put out in what is essentially a bunker still surprises me. Against good players you still have the edge because of your passive healing and ability to continually chain CC/Knockbacks. Against inexperienced players and your average tPvP (solo Q) player, well this build is monstrous.

I think Warriors being left in this current state is severely hurting PvP at the moment, purely down to the number of warriors you see in PvP and just how overly-effective they are.

Nothing will put of a new player or someone trying sPvP for the first time more than coming across a seemingly unkillable Warrior that can lock them down with seemingly nothing they can do about it.

I would not call my sentiment “Learn to Play,” rather it’s “Learn to Adapt.”

Many of the builds you see in SPvP and SoloQ are all about offense, they bring little to no counter measures. Warriors on the other hand, have been buffed up to be the counter to these kind of builds. I can only assume that ANet hoped that in response to this players would then build against Warriors. This has happened for the most part at higher levels, but not so much in the modes most people actually play.

For some reason in hotjoin and SoloQ things haven’t moved on. You see people running the same builds they always have even though they know they’re weak to Warriors. No wonder you see so many Wars currently, it’s basically a buffet of free kills. It feels like this is less of a balance issue and more of a player mindset issue. They just want ANet to come along and nerf anything they have their pitchforks aimed at currently. I don’t think this is a health mindset, the meta should be driven by the players by this point in the game’s life.

Having a strong class/build can actually make things more interesting because it can become the new thing to beat. In the past there were builds that had few to no counters, but the current Warrior builds are nowhere near as bad. Just like GW1, Warrior is a force to be reckoned with, but has exploitable weaknesses. Of course, I’m referring to Mesmer. ANet has been hesitant to buff them too much vs conditions because they are a very, very strong class. Warrior keeping conditions, which are still strong, in check.

Now it’s the Mesmer’s turn to keep Warriors in check. They will all still be strong builds to run but they will have a obvious weakness. Right now that balance is out of whack due to there being so few Mesmers out there. Thieves can fill this role as well but Mesmer is practically built from the ground up to be Anti-Warrior.

If Warriors get nerfed and conditions don’t get brought down just as much we’ll be right back in the condition meta. Nerfing them the right amount is such a delicate proposal it makes more sense to me that they focus on adding more counters. Power creep isn’t that big of a threat if they focus on adding counters to specific builds.

whyme.3281:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Plenty meaning one skill that makes you invuln to only physical damage on a fairly long cooldown and a block on mace and one on shield?

Armor and HP is not that impressive when compared to protection, Guardians has low base health but the other factors I mentions make them the toughest class in the game.

Little misinformation here. Invulnerability also affects condition damage. While invulnerable you still get damage from them, that’s true. BUT there are no new conditions applied. So you prevent the damage that would hit you later, that’s how conditions work.

Same story for block, blind, dodge and obstacles(positioning). The only thing that effects direct damage only is protection and toughness (and one or two “you get less damage” traits). But on the other hand, for condition damage we have minus condition duration and condition remove.

Oh and read the wiki, there are things like this explained :p

They claimed that Warriors had plenty of invuln, which they don’t. At least they don’t have it in the same way as Mist Form or Elixir S. Endure Pain and Zerker Stance make you invuln to one type of damage, but it’s not true invulnerability.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I sympathize a little bit with the OP. It’s kind of lame when everyone hates you just because of the profession you play.

But isn’t this whole thread a straw man? i.e. picking out the most uninformed arguments and standing them up to knock down?

I don’t believe that i am attacking a straw man because the only people I am addressing here are the people who spread false information about the class which can lead to to others believing them.

I have no problem with people who make a factual arguments and don’t blow things out of proportion, but I haven’t seen many. The guys quoted are pretty much the average thread I’ve seen as of late. I don’t even believe these vocal few represent the PvP community as a whole, people are more likely to come here to complain about something they dislike rather than come here as talk about what they do like.

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

its the same like bullsrush, haste + hundred blades. so it needs a nerf, it doesnt matter if some teams have no problems with it or not. the amount of posts should be a clear indicator of how broken the build is to a certain level of skill. risk/reward is not equal enough. i dont see any reason to defend that cheese.

If you had problems with Bulls + Frenzy + 100b then we have nothing to talk about balance wise.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

I take into account class mechanics trust me :P. I am not saying Warrior is the only one that needs to be toned down. It’s a great thing that warriors can stand against the condi meta. But again, it’s a power creep and it’s not healthy. I still have issues with spirit rangers, necros and engis but mostly just passive play in general.

I get the fear of power creep but I don’t think we are heading that direction. ANet seems to be focusing on adding direct counters rather than flat buffing the potency of something. If you think about Warriors weren’t buffed against anything other than conditions. The current meta Warrior builds can have some defense against power damage but they can still be easily taken out by someone who specializes in killing them as much as Warrior specializes in killing condition builds.

If they were say just increasing all of the damage Warrior skills do or something like that I would be worried but they’ve generally just been playing it like it’s rock-paper-scissors. Personally I’m fine with that, if you aren’t that’s up to you but it’s a lot easier to balance RPS.

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

oh so u realize that its op at a certain level of skill? thx for the clarification, now devs could u please nerf that kitten?

I said no such thing, I said that the players in SPvP and TPvP are too stuck in their ways to try to counter anything. Up until now the meta has always been about being the thing to counter, not about countering.

hooma.9642:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

i would suggest stop playing warrior and pick any non-fotm class and a good or decent build for them. then go soloq or teamq or whatever u like and see how it is to play against wars or team with > 2 wars and every war has 1-2 stuns on low cooldown, berzerker, healsig.

at some point u will notice u need 1000x skill to win against the war then he would need if you arent a mesmer or thief with teleports. all others class need to keep distance to win and even then its not easy as it sounds if the enemy know how to play.

I dabble with Engi and Guardian but don’t enjoy the playstlye as much, but I always make sure to bring along some sort of countermeasure. Just having Protection Injection greatly reduces the damage you take when you do get stunned.

Every high ranking team I’ve faced in TPvP doesn’t seem to have issues with lockdown Warriors because they make sure to account for it, something many SPvP/Solo players don’t do.

Yasha.5963:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The cooldown of burst skills and the effectiveness of Adrenal Health are the most common mistakes/exaggeration. Burst skills are rarely used on cooldown because doing so is typically a foolish thing to do. In the case of hammer you typically want to set Earthshaker up before using it, if you’re getting hit by it when it’s just being thrown out on CD then that’s an issue with you. You also have to account for things such as stability, blocks, blinds, and any other number of other factors. Just because it comes off of cooldown doesn’t mean you’re going to instant use it.

As for Adrenal Health, most Warrior builds currently use their adrenaline all the time to keep from being overwhelmed by conditions so very rarely do you actually get all that much healing from it. Many also seem to think that it procs every second when it’s actually every 3.

So which is it, you use f1 all the time so u have no adrenal health or u don’t spam f1?

Anyway, as there is only a 8 sec cd on f1 traited; it can be spammed with no downside.

Earthshaker-unnecessary to set up. Spamming it blows opponent cds, gives me a 8 sec cd. I win.

I nearly always have full adrenaline by the time my f1 cd is up.

The whole point is that Adrenal Health isn’t this amazing trait it’s made out to be because it’ll tic maybe once or twice before you use your adren. Yes, you shouldn’t spam F1 but you also don’t sit on it just for a bit of HP every 3 seconds.

If you’re foes are blowing CDs on a Earthshaker that isn’t set up then they must not be that great. Good TPvP teams save their dodges for the big lockdown skill and only use their breaks when they actually get hit. Yes you can hit it without setting it up but that typically means waiting for them to leave themselves vulnerable which comes back to sitting on adren.

Xsorus.2507:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

You have multiple forms of Block and Invul’s as a Warrior.

Not to mention more HP and Armor then other classes.

Plenty meaning one skill that makes you invuln to only physical damage on a fairly long cooldown and a block on mace and one on shield?

Armor and HP is not that impressive when compared to protection, Guardians has low base health but the other factors I mentions make them the toughest class in the game.

I want to see Eles made into bunkers that are comparable to Guardians. That class has dominated the mid bunker role since launch and it would be nice to see another class being able to do the same thing in a different way.

Arheundel.6451:

zone.1073:

The reality about healing signet is that many other classes have had this same effect for a long time, through Regeneration. All the engineers and elementalists who have 100% regeneration uptime are achieving the same sustain effect within their own class. Thieves have a version of this through their healing and condition removal from stealth. Same goes with guardians and their constant AoE healing.

The concept of healing signet’s sustain is nothing new. It’s new to warriors, but it has been done already. Why the shock and awe about warriors having this mechanic now is silly.

Stop your non-sense..you compare regeneration to the warrior healing signet?…Are you mad?
I should have like 2000 pts in healing power to match the passive healing of the signet.

Healing signet = 400 HP for sec
Regeneration = 130 +0.125 * Healing Power.

Same error that Arc made, you are comparing healing directly without taking other class mechanics into account. There are dozens of other things to consider such as: Evades, blinds, blocks, invuln, protection, stealth, clones, the list goes on. Warrior healing is the way it is because it lacks most of these other mechanics in any significant capacity.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

zone.1073:

And might I add, healing signet is not used by all warriors. It works well with tanky warriors, but high burst damage builds still require a burst healing skill like adrenaline surge. The fact that so many warriors are using healing signet now reflects the fact that so many people are choosing to build tanky and sacrificing burst damage, which is again, not a new concept. Many other classes have swayed into this tanky, lower damage spectrum. EU has been doing this for a long time in the competitive scene.

The issue is that warriors shouldn’t be a class that should have high regen give their hp pool and toughness—even their dps for being tanky is more effective than guardians. I am not saying they are the best at everything, but they don’t give up as much as other classes when trying to play roles and that’s bothersome to me at least.

You aren’t taking into account all the mechanics that other classes have. In the case of the Guardian, they have access to protection, blocks, blinds, sanctuary, and invulnerability. These factors are the reason why you don’t see any good teams using a Warrior as a mid bunker.

And they don’t give up anything? Half of their build is often dedicated to countering conditions. I have traits, skills, and runes just to keep from being overwhelmed by condition spam. Pretty much all my utility skills are defensive. Would I like to run an offensive utility or 2? Sure, but I know that doing so would make me much more vulnerable.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Arheundel.6451:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Kwll.1468:

Nice cherry picking. Because some foolish things are said about warriors doesn’t mean they don’t need to be to nerfed. My main problem with Warriors are too much damage with too much survivability. The stuns bother me as well but its not necessarily the idea that Warriors have them just that I believe access to so much hard CC is bad for the game. So explain to me reasonably why Warriors should be able to do so much damage and yet be fairly hard to kill at the same time. Conditions are fairly weak against them now and Healing Signet is a tad too good. Also, they are almost like the old elementalist in terms of escapability. If they want to run away most of the time they can.

You pretty much just became a part of the exaggeration/misinformation crowd. These “cherry picked” quotes came from threads that had a good number of views/responses, that’s why I picked them.

They have decent survivability, but they can’t mid bunker as well as a Guardian (those shamans banner regen Warriors crumble under any good team because they lack protection, blocks, and invulnerability that Guardians have) they also have some good damage against stunned foes, but they can’t spike nearly as well as a Thief or even Ele without giving up a significant amount of survivability.

Also, the ability to run away in TPvP isn’t necessarily the best thing to do in a team fight. You know why top players prefer Hambow over Mace/GS, because with bow you can still apply pressure while retreating. If you just peel away you just left your team high and dry and while you may live that means nothing if the rest of your team dies.

But it was a problem with eles..so why is it ok for warriors to have even more mobility?

Ele’s mobility didn’t leave any real way for you to counter it because they could use Mist Form and then use Ride the Lightning and there was little you could do about it. With Warrior just landing a simple cripple halves their mobility, hit them with an immobilize during a Rush and there’s not much they can do about it.

There were also many other factors with the old Ele that made them have little to no counter, current Warrior meta has plenty.

Was there a time where you could use RTL in msitform? I just recall only being able to use utilities while in mistform. RTL itself was just an entity that didn’t take into account chill and/or cripple so that’s why it was hard to counter. All they needed was to add that really and it’d be good but they just hated ele for some reason and nerfed RTL to the ground and mistform.

Sorry that might have been unclear, you would use Mist Form to create some distance then use RTL. You didn’t HAVE to use Mist but if you were getting focused popping it meant you were pretty much going to get away. You’re also right that the fact that it wasn’t affected by cripple/chill was a big part of it.

I do feel bad for Ele and want them to be brought back into the fold.

MaXi.3642:

srsly? you are obviously a warrior player who dont want it to be nerfed… its OP as hell, not only “almost like the old elementalist”, its exactly the same and maybe even worse, above average dmg, above average survivability (read almost unkillable 1v1), best mobility in game, best control in game, usually all in one build… if ele needed to be nerfed, this must be too

No, not exactly the same.
No, not normally all in one build.

Ele had almost no real counter, or at least nobody found one before they were nerfed. Warriors have a plethora of counters, it’s not that classes fault that few people play Mesmer even though thanks to Warrior condition builds are being kept in check.

I’ll say it once again the game is not balanced around 1v1. If you run Hambow builds your mobility is lower. if you take Mace/GS you give up the ability to apply damage while retreating, as I said before being able to run away isn’t all that great if doing so means your team loses the fight. Even though I was an early adopted of Mace/GS, it’s actually not very good against decent players. Being able to stun multiple people on a point with a Hammer is much more useful that stunning just one.

So no, you can’t have it all in one build.

Also, you fall into the category of people who don’t even try to make their writing look respectable and it makes it hard for me to take anything you say seriously.

Arheundel.6451:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Kwll.1468:

Nice cherry picking. Because some foolish things are said about warriors doesn’t mean they don’t need to be to nerfed. My main problem with Warriors are too much damage with too much survivability. The stuns bother me as well but its not necessarily the idea that Warriors have them just that I believe access to so much hard CC is bad for the game. So explain to me reasonably why Warriors should be able to do so much damage and yet be fairly hard to kill at the same time. Conditions are fairly weak against them now and Healing Signet is a tad too good. Also, they are almost like the old elementalist in terms of escapability. If they want to run away most of the time they can.

You pretty much just became a part of the exaggeration/misinformation crowd. These “cherry picked” quotes came from threads that had a good number of views/responses, that’s why I picked them.

They have decent survivability, but they can’t mid bunker as well as a Guardian (those shamans banner regen Warriors crumble under any good team because they lack protection, blocks, and invulnerability that Guardians have) they also have some good damage against stunned foes, but they can’t spike nearly as well as a Thief or even Ele without giving up a significant amount of survivability.

Also, the ability to run away in TPvP isn’t necessarily the best thing to do in a team fight. You know why top players prefer Hambow over Mace/GS, because with bow you can still apply pressure while retreating. If you just peel away you just left your team high and dry and while you may live that means nothing if the rest of your team dies.

But it was a problem with eles..so why is it ok for warriors to have even more mobility?

Ele’s mobility didn’t leave any real way for you to counter it because they could use Mist Form and then use Ride the Lightning and there was little you could do about it. With Warrior just landing a simple cripple halves their mobility, hit them with an immobilize during a Rush and there’s not much they can do about it.

There were also many other factors with the old Ele that made them have little to no counter, current Warrior meta has plenty.

Kwll.1468:

Nice cherry picking. Because some foolish things are said about warriors doesn’t mean they don’t need to be to nerfed. My main problem with Warriors are too much damage with too much survivability. The stuns bother me as well but its not necessarily the idea that Warriors have them just that I believe access to so much hard CC is bad for the game. So explain to me reasonably why Warriors should be able to do so much damage and yet be fairly hard to kill at the same time. Conditions are fairly weak against them now and Healing Signet is a tad too good. Also, they are almost like the old elementalist in terms of escapability. If they want to run away most of the time they can.

You pretty much just became a part of the exaggeration/misinformation crowd. These “cherry picked” quotes came from threads that had a good number of views/responses, that’s why I picked them.

They have decent survivability, but they can’t mid bunker as well as a Guardian (those shamans banner regen Warriors crumble under any good team because they lack protection, blocks, and invulnerability that Guardians have) they also have some good damage against stunned foes, but they can’t spike nearly as well as a Thief or even Ele without giving up a significant amount of survivability.

Also, the ability to run away in TPvP isn’t necessarily the best thing to do in a team fight. You know why top players prefer Hambow over Mace/GS, because with bow you can still apply pressure while retreating. If you just peel away you just left your team high and dry and while you may live that means nothing if the rest of your team dies.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Guardian, Warrior, Spirit Ranger, with a Thief/Necro/Engi burst. Seriously, teams are actually pretty bad when they don’t play meta comps; it’s getting annoying losing to bad players.

Is it not a good thing that most classes can now be on a team? Before it wasn’t uncommon to see up to 3 of one class on a team because it was simply the best option? While roles should be expanded so that other classes can fill them, such as making Ele able to bunker as well as a Guardian, right now pretty much every meta build has multiple counters.

Condition Necro/Ranger is countered by Warriors, which are countered by Mesmer/Thief. It’s impossible to avoid a meta in any sort of competitive game. If they just keep making it so that more classes can fill different jobs then the game will be fairly well off balance wise.

Unlike some of the more vocal people here I feel the meta is the best it has been. Before it was all power, then it was all conditions, now you see a combination of both in addition to control. I’m not sure what people really want the meta to be because they aren’t pleased no matter what it is.

Excalibur.9748:

mini.6018:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

At the moment warriors can just equip their passive regen signet and be unable to be killed. When a warrior is 4v1 and not dropping below 50% health and able to kill the other 4 players, it simply makes PVP unfun. Just had two games where it was impossible to kill any of the opposing team because it was all passive regen warriors.

If 4 ppl can’t kill a warrior should simply drop pvp and go pve.If the 4ppl also get killed by the war then i’m sorry to say videogames are just not your calling.
I can beat almost every warrior 1v1 on my zerk amulet build including the banner regen full tank cleric, shaman gear.I should assume 1can kill16 ppl solo if these warriors can kill 4 all by themselves then.

Join a random 1v1 server and see for yourself how easy good players kill warriors.If it can be done 1v1 than your and other nerf threads ops are simply l2P issues.

I can kill warriors, others can kill warriors, you and 4 ppl can’t 4v1 so seriously leave pvp for who has what it takes for it.

in duel servers, healing signet is banned

Because we should balance the game around duels? The game isn’t balanced around 1v1, because it’s a team game. You balance things based on how it affects fights involving multiple people.

I don’t even know why I respond to you anymore, you’ve posted pictures that show you hardly ever play PvP.

fugazi.5139:

nicknamenick.2437:

again about the healing signet? people talkig about infinite regen on warriors?
Warriors aint got infinite regen, healing signet is very easy to counter > poison..

I really dont get why people still think warriors are beasts and can hold a point against 2-3 people..
I play warrior, and see allot of warriors in pvp, but we still die easily against other well played classes.

If they do nerf healing signet and healing surge they better give protection because if we go this way we are back on the bottem in pvp.

right where the mindless warrior should be.

Posts like this is why I discount most of the people crying out for nerfs. It’s clear that many of them have no interest in Warriors being balanced, they just want them to be free kills.

Some hide it better than others but when you’re asking for nerfs on pretty much every buff Warrior has ever received it becomes pretty obvious what you’re after.

I am posting this here as opposed to the Warrior forum because most of the complaints regarding Warrior is PvP related, also the most amount of misinformation about them comes from this forum.

Almost every day I see a new thread that claims something about the Warrior that is either exaggerated or just downright untrue. This is highly annoying because if anybody takes what this person says seriously, they may go on to spread this untrue information.

Here are some examples, I’ve removed the names because I am not doing this as a form of public shaming. I am using these as a few more recent examples of people saying things that are so easily disproved by anyone familiar with the class. In the case of the video it shows little more than a people auto attacking a guy and the second his health starts dropping he starts dodging and using shield block. More importantly, it was used to somehow prove that Warriors are OP in PvP, even though the footage is from WvW.

For the love of Jedsus… A warrior that uses hammer and sw/shield has 6 stuns with zero diminishing returns. More than anyone in game. They can out heal anyone. They have the most hp and toughness. They’re second best a condition cleansing. I don’t understand the constant love that warriors are getting. At least with other professions their variation in builds. With warriors, almost all have hammers and either sw/shield or longbow.

But seriously though they have their stuns up of like every 5 secs, and 2 stun breakers are not enough o,o

i love how warrior defender pretend that there is nothing wrong with their class, taht they arent op and all.u guys were always strong in wvw. u guys were terrible in spvp though. ok u got buffs and they are way too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH9JjnaW3rE

this should not be possible in any game and yes that warrior actually does dmg too.
stop trying to defend an op class. it does need a tone down.or maybe u would like al other classes brought up to your level then and then we see u all crying again.

Sorry for my Russian English.

So Warrior have ultra mobility. Crazy DMG in all builds. PERMANENT ultra healing regeneration 1100 hp evry 3 sec passive. 4 SEC stun from mace evry 6 second lol what??? 100% crit% when ppl are stunned.

Im have all classes andthis is so OP. im have 51 spvp rank for all clasess

Let’s not forget a certain thread that hung around for a good while that was created by a guy who later admitted to hardly playing any PvP.

Wiki before you post, you do yourself a major disservice if you past something about a skill or trait that is just blatantly false. The cooldown of burst skills and the effectiveness of Adrenal Health are the most common mistakes/exaggeration. Burst skills are rarely used on cooldown because doing so is typically a foolish thing to do. In the case of hammer you typically want to set Earthshaker up before using it, if you’re getting hit by it when it’s just being thrown out on CD then that’s an issue with you. You also have to account for things such as stability, blocks, blinds, and any other number of other factors. Just because it comes off of cooldown doesn’t mean you’re going to instant use it.

As for Adrenal Health, most Warrior builds currently use their adrenaline all the time to keep from being overwhelmed by conditions so very rarely do you actually get all that much healing from it. Many also seem to think that it procs every second when it’s actually every 3.

I could go on for ages about this but the moral of the story is that you should do a bit of reading before you write something about a class, because it’s getting very annoying to see the same piece of incorrect information repeated by multiple people.

Another day, another thread with a massive amount of misinformation. Some of the following has already been pointed out but it begs repeating.

1. Hammer + Sword/Shield only has 2 stuns, Earthshaker and Shield Bash. Skills such as Staggering Blow and Backbreaker are not stuns, one is a knock back and the other a knock down.

2. They can not out heal everybody, in fact I can think of a build for almost every class than can beat lock down warriors. Mesmers are especially good at hard countering these builds. A power based Thief that brings along a bit of poison can easily assassinate a Warrior in a team fight. Bring Protection Injection as a Engi and the damage you take while stunned will be laughable. Guardians can give out AoE Stability to his team when he sees the highly telegraphed Earthshaker coming. Just a few examples.

3. Yes, Warriors have good condition cleansing. I’m not sure you remember but before they had this it was laughably easy to kite Warriors and there was little to nothing they could do.

4. Warriors probably has the widest variety of viable builds in the game. You have Hammer + Longbow or Sword/Shield or Mace/Shield. You have GS+Longbow damage dealer. There are multiple ways to do Sword/Sword + Longbow that can either be condition or power based. Now with recent changes you can bring both the shouts and Warhorn traits and run a support build.

You know why you see so many Warriors running Hammer + X? Because there are plenty of people who refuse to modify their builds to counter stuns so they are basically free kills.

There are many ways to counter a Warrior, it’s just that many in SPvP and SoloQ don’t account for them in any ways. Necros bring all offensive utilities, Rangers only run Spirits, hardly anyone plays Mesmer even though the number of condition dealers is shrinking…thanks to Warrior. In TPvP, if you face a good team you’ll see that most of them have some sort of counter measure to stuns and know better than to dump all their best condition skills while Berserker Stance is up.

While other classes (Ele) are lacking atm right now I feel the only thing that the balance team needs to focus on is more build diversity for other classes. Try to build against the thing that is killing you rather then coming here and crying for nerfs and posting a meaningless gif.

Olba.5376:

Well, the thing is, Hammer is a pretty boring weapon to watch on video. It’s pretty much always the same combo. Add in the fact that GS is another boring weapon and you end up with… double boring?

But at least it’s not GS/Mace+Shield or Hammer/Mace+Shield.

I personally disagree with Hammer being boring. I mean you got an attack that sends out a shockwave with Hammer Shock, Staggering Blow’s new animation is cool, Backbreaker flattens your target, and Finally you got Earthshaker that cracks the ground and sends up a cloud of dust. Take that with a Longbow and use the combo fields and you got an even flashier loadout.

I feel like the Devs really want us as players to be the ones that decide what the meta is, but many on the forums just want some sort of miracle patch that will make the meta for us. So long as there are viable counters, having something that is very strong can actually help keep the game fresh. It keeps it from becoming like chess where there’s only so many viable moves and you don’t see any real innovation.

I still maintain that I’m mostly pleased with the current PvP balance, but some classes need to be buffed to the point were they can fit into different roles. An example would be making Ele able to bunker on par with Guardian so that you have a choice who to bring as a mid bunker.

A lot of Warrior critics seem to pass themselves off as experts of the class and then proceed to spread false information. Most commonly people will name off every strength of the Warrior as if it all comes in one build, which is false. I’ve discovered that some people calling for nerfs are basing it around WvW, which I feel is a game type that while fun, is not what you want to balance the game around. With differences in gear and things like food buffs and rune sets that don’t exist in PvP it’s unlikely WvW will ever be “balanced.”

I’ve seen people asking for nerfs to: Zerker stance, cleansing ire, unsuspecting foe, adrenal health, healing signet, and much more. Basically, every single thing that has been buffed or changed. What they don’t seem to realize that until the healing changes Warriors still were not very viable. Reduce healing signet too much and it’ll go back to being worthless, nerf any of the condition removal and suddenly we’re not such a big threat to condition builds and we’re back to where we were a few months ago, nerf Unsuspecting Foe and you may have a guy who isn’t as tough as a guardian and hits like a wet noodle and chances are stuns alone won’t make them worth taking over a Necro or Ranger.

What annoys me the most is that the current Warrior builds have plenty of viable counters. This is not the Ele, Necro, or Spirit Ranger of old where there was only maybe 1 or 2 viable counters in the game. Some have figured this out, I played a bunch of TPvP games last night and saw plenty of people running more stun breakers or Mel runes that made them have a fair shot against me and it made them much harder to kill in a team fight. It feels like many critics on the forums just don’t want to adapt to Warriors. What’s worse is that some of the people who frequently talked about how much they hated the condition meta are now getting out the pitchforks for the very class that is bringing conditions under control. Of course you’re going to see a ton of Warriors in SoloQ when people continue to run the condition builds that they counter.

As for the class itself, it took a year but I’m very pleased with it. as a PvX player, it’s good to know I’ll have a place in any group whether I’m playing PvE, WvW, or PvP. I feel like I’ve gone full circle from GW1, I focused on locking people down with hammer and that’s what I do now. I feel tough, but idc what anyone esle says I will not be mid-bunkering against 3 people any time soon, I can also hit hard but not as hard as a burst Thief/Ele/Mesmer and that damage is tied to my stuns.

I feel like I’m wading into battle and surviving not by the use of magic or trickery, but with might and willpower. I feel like the class is what ANet should strive to make all classes, viable in every game mode, has a variety of builds, and feels suitably unique.

So yes, the class is awesome. I feel like we get a lot of crap because people are frustrated by their favorite classes limitations and decide that they don’t like that Warrior, a class long considered to be a joke in PvP, becoming the first class to reach the level it’s at.

Master of Timespace.2548:

jmatb.6307:

This isn’t WvW we’re talking about though…

Same ideas apply though. For example, by this “play to win” logic, one should have abused the hell out of the mesmer fall trait bug.

People did for the duration it was there, fairly amusing actually.

It’s actually a good thing they did because it forces a faster response.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

BurrTheKing.8571:

CutePicsHunter.7430:

snip

snip

snip

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If you ask me, if you are joining a competitive game mode you are entering into an unspoken contract that you will play to the best of your abilities and attempt to win. If you choose to play a crappy, ineffective build because you find it “fun” and your team loses as a result, you screwed them over.

One players’ fun doesn’t make it OK to ruin the enjoyment for, in this case, four other players fun. You could even say you could be ruining the fun for up to 9 people because many do not enjoy a steamroll.

When you enter into any sort of team environment you work for the success of that team. This means you give up a bit of individuality, but if you want a team to succeed it’s needed. There’s a lot of enjoyment to be had still working as a team though.

And if my skill allows me to not use meta builds and still be pretty effective? What then? What if the difference between me playing easy meta build and me playing my “for fun” build is like 5% winrate? Why should I sacrifice all of my fun to increase chances of my team to win by 1%?

BurrTheKing.8571:

My point is, those who want to only have fun and run silly builds should stick to duel servers or hotjoin, game modes that are basically TDM and so casual that you aren’t screwing other over by running what you want because nobody else is taking things seriously. This applies to any game, not just GW2.

BurrTheKing.8571:

who want to only have fun

If you’re playing this game not only for fun and still don’t earn real money for it – then you’re a masochist.

And what if I’m not the one who have fun only when I “run silly builds”? What if I enjoy playing a team game where people rely on each other using my “for fun” but still not “silly” build? Hotjoin and duels are definitely bad places for me. Soloq is not bad, but I prefer to join team tournaments even if I have no party (this is also because of skyhammer in soloq, even if it will be changed, i will not play it). You can curse me for that, yes. But still, my winrate is pretty high, and I’m pretty effective. I also talk with my team and listen to them.

The real QQ comes from those who realise that if cheesy build will be nerfed, there will be no place for them in this game anymore. Oh, wait, may be they will be useful in wvwvw.

If your skill allows you to use non-meta builds and still be effective, you are still lowering your overall effectiveness if another build is objectively superior.

My idea of fun involves winning, and while other may have different objectives, it doesn’t change that the goal of SoloQ is to win. If your idea of fun does not include winning, then don’t play a game mode where the main goal is to win.

I’m not saying that you can’t, say, make a silly team of 5 Eles with a group of friends in TPvP. You aren’t really hurting anybody by doing that, you aren’t screwing teammates over because their in on it. The enemy might be a bit bummed out that they aren’t getting a close fight out of it but fighting joke teams can be enjoyable and chances are they’ll win.

When I play SoloQ I want to win, so if someone joins with a crappy joke build for “fun,” chances are we’re going to lose. It’s a game mode that is supposed to be taken more seriously than hotjoin. To compare it to Counterstrike:GO, in the casual modes you’ll see people goofing off all the time. No reasonable person gets all that upset by it because losing doesn’t really screw people over, it’s casual. I can buy a crappy MAC 10 and go around spraying all day and most will just find it funny. However, if you join a competitive match by yourself and get paired up with 4 guys who are out to win and I buy a MAC 10 even when I have the $ for a better weapon just because it’s “fun” you’re majorly screwing those guys over.

You wouldn’t intentionally screw your team over in a competitive sport, so why would you do it in a competitive video game?

P.S, regardless of your personal feelings about the game; SoloQ is still technically a competitive game mode and should be treated as such.

With the buff to shouts I of course could not resist instantly trying them out.

The Loudmouth

Loudmouth V2

(Imagine Tactics II is Lung Capacity)

This class can be a powerful supporting class, but it actually packs a surprising amount of punch as well.

Depending on what version you use you’ll be giving something up. The first has no fast hands but an extra shout, which when used on a stunned target that you 100b could deal decent damage. The second has fast hands but give up a shout for stability.

I’m still messing around with it and I’m not 100% sure it’ll be all that useful in high level PvP, so far it’s serving me well.

EDIT: I’m an idiot, I wanted this in the Warrior forum -_-"

tichorum.2415:

BurrTheKing.8571:

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Wait…so your idea of balance not being a good spot is where you can have 4 different classes and your choice of w/e you want?

Shouldn’t that be “balance” itself? Allowing to have teams formed around what classes they want to play with the spec they want to for different team comps, rather than having to play a specific class because it’s a must-have in a team comp.

Right now there is variety with team comps, more-so than there was a month or two ago. But there is a lot of room for improvement.

I don’t see the problem, almost every class is now viable or needed in a team. That “X” slot is where variety comes in. If X is a Mesmer, than a dual Warrior team will have problems because both Thief and Mesmer can counter them. Likewise if a team takes 2 necros then that dual Warrior team will have an edge. But even if your team starts out with a disadvantage you can still win if you play better.

Now we just need more options/rewards in PvP and I’ll probably be pleased.

Leuca.5732:

livlaender.8790:

hello,

i see a lot of ppl complaining….nearly about everything, how would it be, if ppl would start playing, instead of typing?

Because we’ve spent countless hours theorycrafting and playing in an attempt to find something that can really change the direction of this game and have come up dry. The PvP in this game is stagnant and this patch did little to change that after about 4 months of waiting.

The game was dominated by condis, then almost a month after a patch Warrior start bringing M+S/GS and Ham/Bow to totally crush conditions. The meta HAS changed, and it came about with buffs rather than nerfs. Conditions are still viable as are lockdowns, and both have counters.

cymerdown.4103:

Unless you can convince me that there are solid team comps that aren’t Guardian Warrior Ranger Thief X (where Warrior is a good choice for X), I don’t think balance is in a good spot just yet.

Wait…so your idea of balance not being a good spot is where you can have 4 different classes and your choice of w/e you want?

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

Yah I was going to say that. If people are calling pretty much every class OP, I think that means the balance of the game is pretty kitten good.

Condi doesn’t need nerfing because lock down Warriors exist.

Lock down Warriors don’t need nerfing because Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds exist.

Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds don’t need nerfing because conditions exist.

Pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors.

I’m not sure what Ele’s think about this patch, but I do want them to become a viable alternative for Guardian as mid bunker.

NevirSayDie.6235:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If you did that then all the other team would have to do is split into 2 groups, avoid the mob as much as possible, and just recap the 2 points that they aren’t on. It would be more like “the bunker is on his own in mid, Bob and Joe go there and cap.”

That was what I was trying to say. Why would the bunker stay on mid if he knew Bob and Joe could come and there would be nothing he could do? He’d be much better off to stick with his four teammates.

Because Frank the bunker can still delay they cap, perhaps I should have been clearer in my description, the cap rate would probably have to be around 1/4 as fast as a normal cap. That means that Frank’s teammates can respond and deny the cap, but if they can’t/don’t then Bob and Joe can still take the point.

NevirSayDie.6235:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The idea that a single person can deny the cap of a point isn’t something I agree with. It makes more sense to adopt the Battlefield way of doing things, the team with the most players on the point capture it, but if an enemy is there is captures at a slower rate. Bunkers will still be useful but they won’t be able to deny a cap against 2 people for an extended period of time. This could lead to another layer of strategy.

I understand, but then what would be the point of ever allowing your team to be outnumbered? Unless the decap was very, very slow, it would by far be a better strategy to keep all five players together at all times.

If you did that then all the other team would have to do is split into 2 groups, avoid the mob as much as possible, and just recap the 2 points that they aren’t on. It would be more like “the bunker is on his own in mid, Bob and Joe go there and cap.”

You would have to manage how many players you need to send to have an advantage at one point, without leaving yourself too exposed at another. Right now a good bunker can delay the cap against multiple foes for a long time but that all changes if even a 2v1, the 1 being the bunker, mans you’ll be able to cap.

You’re going to see zergs in hotjoin no matter what you do because most of them aren’t even attempting to win.

I’m just going to say that I don’t think that conquest itself is a bad game type, but the way it’s implemented isn’t as interesting as it could be.

The idea that a single person can deny the cap of a point isn’t something I agree with. It makes more sense to adopt the Battlefield way of doing things, the team with the most players on the point capture it, but if an enemy is there is captures at a slower rate. Bunkers will still be useful but they won’t be able to deny a cap against 2 people for an extended period of time. This could lead to another layer of strategy.

First off the capture points are far too small, the fact that most of them are uniform circles makes AoE much more powerful. If the capture points were shaped to match the environment then AoE would lose some but not all effectiveness.

The increased capture point sizes would also allow for more creativity when it comes to what is inside said points. What if Graveyard actually had busted up graves and mausoleums that can be used to break line of sight. Perhaps make the home points of a map hills that have the capture point at the top. Make it tall enough that getting knocked off requires running back up and you take a bit of fall damage, but not to the extent of Skyhammer.

The side objectives are a good idea, but many of them need updating or tweaking, such as one person should not be able to solo the gates on Foefire.

Changes like these could spice up gameplay, I think conquest is a solid objective based game mode but the way it currently is feels underdeveloped. The good this is, there’s

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Yes, i didn’t say anythings about winning, thank you for realising that you were wrong.

Its hard to figure out why you’re even posting on the PvP forum if you don’t play it lol.

I haven’t logged in the game in more than a month.

Did i miss something?

And even if i did, i’m here to show you the way how to become better. We already came to the conclusion that winning isn’t all what players need, and sometimes, they don’t need it at all, but still, they are winning. If you’re playing to win, it does not increase your chances to win against that players. We also concluded, that there is no point of winning in computer games at all. So, whats the point? Fun, of course. And we all agreed, that fun is subjective. For some people fun is just getting text “you win” in the middle of their screen , and some people want to actually play the game the way they want, and it doesn’t connect to their winrate. So, we concluded that this thread is pointless.

If you ask me, if you are joining a competitive game mode you are entering into an unspoken contract that you will play to the best of your abilities and attempt to win. If you choose to play a crappy, ineffective build because you find it “fun” and your team loses as a result, you screwed them over.

One players’ fun doesn’t make it OK to ruin the enjoyment for, in this case, four other players fun. You could even say you could be ruining the fun for up to 9 people because many do not enjoy a steamroll.

When you enter into any sort of team environment you work for the success of that team. This means you give up a bit of individuality, but if you want a team to succeed it’s needed. There’s a lot of enjoyment to be had still working as a team though.

My point is, those who want to only have fun and run silly builds should stick to duel servers or hotjoin, game modes that are basically TDM and so casual that you aren’t screwing other over by running what you want because nobody else is taking things seriously. This applies to any game, not just GW2.

Suddenflame.2601:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Suddenflame.2601:

fey.5438:

Adrenal health 360hp per 1 sec?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
“Adrenal Health grants a fixed amount of health every 3 seconds. "

thanks forgot about that i will fix that when I get home

You also have to take into account that most of the builds using Healing Signet also rarely have full adrenaline for more than a few seconds.

I don’t have to take that into account cause I stated that I am assuming Full Adrenaline. I stated what I am assuming for the easy of the calculations. I can add the other conditions later if needed. The same would have to be done with healing surge.

The problem with not taking the adren usage into account is that people reading this with an anti-warrior agenda will use this as “proof” of them being OP even though the math doesn’t represent the reality.

It’s similar to how people directly compare healing skills to each other without considering the other aspects of a class such as other sources of healing via traits or access to buffs like protection and aegis.

Suddenflame.2601:

fey.5438:

Adrenal health 360hp per 1 sec?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
“Adrenal Health grants a fixed amount of health every 3 seconds. "

thanks forgot about that i will fix that when I get home

You also have to take into account that most of the builds using Healing Signet also rarely have full adrenaline for more than a few seconds.