Guild Wars 2

apt.9184:

Alright right now you can pretty much play any team comp and do fine if the players are skilled. The only time just any team comp it does not work is if you get qued against the few remaining good teams like good fights. But can you guess why there is almost no other teams? Is because the meta is so kitten. Warrior = complete cheese and no skill to play atm, Spirit Ranger = complete cheese and no skill to play atm, Necro = complete cheese and no skill to play atm, Engi takes skill to play but you can argue it is a little over the top atm, condi mesmer (clones on death add conditions) is really annoying, oh and s/d thief requires little skill obv more than warr and spirit ranger. The reason people are qqing is because the classes right now with certain builds are way over the top anet needs to nerf a lot and bring back power meta that was when lot more skill and awareness was required. It is really boring to watch an endless team fight and thats why unless this meta goes away I don’t see this game ever reaching any level of competitive play.

Sounds like you might as well stop playing because you’ll probably never be pleased with the meta.

Coulter.2315:

I would just point out that 2 of your [Counter Lockdown] classes are countered by your [Lockdown] classes :P

Thief and Engi can both build in such a way where they can hard counter the lockdown builds. Thief can run Sword/Dagger + Sword/Pistol, basically blind and evade, start stunning to bait out stability, steal stability, stun more. They can also just run heavy spike and assassinate them in team battles.

Engi with Protection Injection hardly has to worry about lockdown builds at all, the protection makes the damage they take almost laughable. Take it on a power build and you’ll also overwhelm the healing signet easily.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

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I would be fine with Skull Crack being made more obvious, as long as it looks cool. Healing Signet as I said, is easily countered with power-based damage in addition to things like stability, blocks, poison, blind to avoid getting locked down. What makes it good is that because the damage from conditions is being mitigated in addition to the stuns that make it worthwhile.

I think Warriors should remain the hard counter to conditions, without them being that hard counter chances are there will always be multiple condition users on a team that don’t have much to fear.

I’m also seeing people basing their views based on 1v1 strength, when the game is balanced around team battles. Warriors are not hard to focus down in a team battle, especially if you have a shatter Mesmer on your team. The Hambow build that is popular has few ways to quickly escape. Mace/Shield + GS has more escapes, but peeling away from a teamfight means that you just abandoned a team fight and put your teammates at a disadvantage. Longbow is good because you can use it to deal some damage while you peel, which is why it’s better in my mind.

Yes, Warriors are tough, but not as hard to kill as a bunker Guardian. Yes, Warriors can deal decent damage even with soldier gear, but not as much as a Thief or Ele built for burst. They currently are somewhere in the middle, but if that gets disrupted too much they may not be seen as worth taking over another class, which was their issue before they got buffed.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’d like to point out that nobody has commented on the list of viable counters I posted.

Meaning?

Meaning that none of them apparently have a strong counter argument to how it’s not really OP if there are builds that not only counter the popular builds but are also useful against other builds.

Warriors currently dedicate multiple utility skills and traits to counter condition users like Necro and Spirit Rangers, yet running counters to Warriors is out of the question, even if they exist?

Edit/Add: My whole point has always been that numerous counters to current Warrior builds exist, you just don’t see many using them. This is different to pre-nerf Spirit Ranger and Necro where there were little to no counters besides the current Warrior builds. The are plenty of ways to beat it but many seem to outright refuse the idea that they should have to change their builds to account for Warriors.

Rather you mean, no one will say anything you would agree with. You aren’t looking for anything to change your perspective. So why pretend that you are?

Hard to change perspective when nobody has actually given an argument that can’t be shot full of holes.

The fact remains that unlike with previous “OP” builds, these builds do have very obvious counters. If there was only one or 2 builds out there that could consistently beat these builds, I’d be inclined to agree.

Warriors were probably the only class that cold reliably beat Spirit Rangers or Necros before they were nerfed. That was clearly not OK. But we don’t have that issue here, most classes have a build that can reliably hard counter stun builds, or at the very least fight to a stalemate.

Every one of these nerf threads suggest changes that would throw Warrior back into the “worthless” tier. Let’s not forget that even with the addition to Cleansing Ire and the buffs to Zerker Stance Warrior still wasn’t viable. It was the healing changes that finally made Warriors worthwhile. These people are not looking for Warrior to be balanced, they want them to go back being a free kill so that they can continue to run the same builds they always have and not have to adapt.

One final note, if Warrior gets too heavily nerfed, you can bet there’s a good chance the condi meta will come right back. Even with ANet “shaving” conditions the changes are minor.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’d like to point out that nobody has commented on the list of viable counters I posted.

Meaning?

Meaning that none of them apparently have a strong counter argument to how it’s not really OP if there are builds that not only counter the popular builds but are also useful against other builds.

Warriors currently dedicate multiple utility skills and traits to counter condition users like Necro and Spirit Rangers, yet running counters to Warriors is out of the question, even if they exist?

Edit/Add: My whole point has always been that numerous counters to current Warrior builds exist, you just don’t see many using them. This is different to pre-nerf Spirit Ranger and Necro where there were little to no counters besides the current Warrior builds. The are plenty of ways to beat it but many seem to outright refuse the idea that they should have to change their builds to account for Warriors.

google.3709:

Depends how you look at it, you’re losing 1 of the bonus.. but you get to abuse that full condi clear and all boons every 48-60s

also, 180 power/toughness makes little to no difference of warrior, Crit dmg would matter a little more but still, most warriors run either lyssa or melandru.

I find my use of Hoelbrak with a Sigil of Battle on the bow in addition to using Arching Arrow and Earthshaker in the Combustive shot gives me more steady DPS. I also have 20% lower condi duration as well.

I’d like to point out that nobody has commented on the list of viable counters I posted.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

google.3709:

Burr he said every 3s :P and i doubt he was adding implant or regen boon,

also u can easily get 100% by running lyssa, and sigil of rage ( which is not so rare) and doesnt sacrifice anything.

It does sacrifice. by taking Lyssa runes you are losing either toughness or power. Not to mention if you are using Healing Signet with Lysaa you are wasting one of the bonuses because you never activate your heal.

Yup, so they have a bit less toughness. Big big sacrifice man. A sacrifice is when you give up something to obtain another of equal value. Warrior’s aren’t sacrificing anything to achieve those numbers.

Nice edit to remove the incorrect number values, because the difference is much larger than what you had stated. My edits are typically because I made a spelling/grammar mistake.

google.3709:

Burr he said every 3s :P and i doubt he was adding implant or regen boon,

also u can easily get 100% by running lyssa, and sigil of rage ( which is not so rare) and doesnt sacrifice anything.

It does make sacrifices, by taking Lyssa runes you are losing either toughness or power. Not to mention if you are using Healing Signet with Lysaa you are wasting one of the bonuses because you never activate your heal.

Good God, the amount of misinformation in that post is astounding.

First off, you are overestimating Adrenal Health. Most Warrior builds right now, especially the Skull Cracker and Hambow builds, use their adrenaline frequently. Healing Signet gives you 392/s with no traits and 407/s with 30 in Defense. Most of the time you are only getting 125 hp every 3 seconds, not 360.

Second, it’s a 3.75 second stun on Skull Crack on a 7.75 second cooldown.

Third, you can only get that 100% stun chance in zerker gear while Fury is up. This means your sustain is much less. You can get better sustain with Soldier runes but your overall DPS will be less because outside of stuns you’ll be hitting for less.

What you are describing is multiple different builds but you are lumping them together.

Things that can kill these builds:
1. Mesmers, namely shatter builds
2. Sword/Dagger Thieves with Sgils of Doom
3. Zerker Guardian, they can deal more damage before the Warrior makes them use up all their stability/aegis/blocks
4. Spike Eles, while not popular they can deal so much damage that if the Warrior doesn’t have Endure Pain they’re screwed.
5. Certain BM Ranger builds can also beat them

Walorx.5129:

Nothing needs to get “up to par” with warriors, necros, and rangers. Those 3 need to be toned down. Everything does way too much damage too quickly with no risk. Slowing down the game will make it more fun for players/shoutcasters alike.

I’m advocating counters and expansions to roles that are already in the game, power creep doesn’t apply.

The game has gotten slower ever since they made quickness skills not worth taking. Not to mention the fact that tough builds are more popular than glassy ones with the exception of Thieves and a few other builds.

Jabberwock.9014:

Larynx.2453:

Jabberwock.9014:

Warrior is so mindless right now, I just got into the top 550 solo q spamming a single combo for 10 games. Bull’s rush, frenzy, hb, whirlwind, shield bash, eviscerate, and a few axe autos if they dodge some.

wat

Do you live in 2012?

I didn’t realize obscene damage, mobility, and survivability went out of style. Say what you will, but this old build has been buffed considerably due to new healing signet, berserker stance, and destruction of the empowered. You can still kill squishies as easily as ever, but now you can even kill tanky bunkers solo without dying. The fact that I got on the leaderboards as a war noob is testament to this.

That just isn’t true. What makes Heal Sig good is the fact that you have a higher HP pool and toughness with soldier gear while locking down your foe which allows you to heal more while they aren’t attacking.

Running what you’re suggesting with Healing Sig would be less effective than using Healing Surge.

Ouro.5846:

Presently, Warriors have too many good tools available to them. As is, the typical sPvP/WvW Warrior build packs a ton of control and condition removal, which when coupled with a Warrior’s natural Vitaly and mobility creates a very strong character (especially in WvW where a Warrior can use consumables to become Godlike).

The solution isn’t easy though since the control is integrated into their weapons, and the point of buffing Warriors in the past was to make them desirable classes for sPvP/WvW.

That said, I would like to see some of the following changes:

- Endure Pain should be changed to a 90 second cool down to reduce how often players can become immune to direct damage.

- Cleansing Ire changed to a Grand Master trait because lets face it, very few, if any Warriors spec Spiked Armor. This in turn forces players to decide what they would like to defend against since they can no longer spec Defy Pain and Cleansing Ire .

- The leftover Spiked Armor can be swapped with Adrenal Reserves . Adrenal Reserves now becomes a Master trait.

- Pommel Bash changed to an ability that applies Weakness .

- 90 second cooldown for a skill that only lasts 4-5 seconds and doesn’t protect you from conditions…so basically make it so that it is never used again and becomes worse than launch.

- Cleansing Ire, wouldn’t effect Hambow builds at all so w/e, but it’s not really fair to any other spec and makes things very limiting. Try running just Cleansing Ire or just Zerker Stance, I guarantee you won’t do so hot vs either conditions OR physical damage. The whole point is that Warriors are supposed to counter condition spam, and you want to take that away?

-Bash, I don’t think I’ve EVER heard anyone complain about this skill outside of “darn you interrupted my heal, nice.”

jmatb.6307:

I’m not saying competitive teams are just copying and pasting, just that when you become successful people will notice and start trying to replicate that success themselves.

You’re assuming that and taking what I said out of context, or maybe take it personally I don’t know.

You’re right though I’m not top tier yet. I haven’t been playing this game for a month and a half. I do realize that it’s taking what works and winning with it, which is something I did not before and, in retrospect, I kind of made a fool of myself thinking I was good.

Actually, if you look at the composition of the MLG winning team, Denial you’ll see that they are pretty much running exactly what I’m suggesting, they even had a Mesmer. It does work, but many of the players on this fourm would much rather blame the current state of things on Warrior and Rangers rather than trying to bring anything to counterplay them.

In a forum teeming with angry Asura with pitchforks and torches crying for nerfs, I propose the opposite. What we need is not for the devs to bring other classes down, but to bring other classes up to par.

Even in the game’s current state, I believe that the potential for balance is already there, it’s just that the players have yet to embrace it. Two of the most popular builds right now are the Spirit Ranger and the Stun Warrior. While the Ranger is a powerful force, it is totally helpless against a competent Warrior. Now, Warrior has become the class on the public chopping block. The same people who voiced their displeasure with the condition meta now crucify the class that caused the meta to become much less impressive. You would expect people to jump to Mesmer in order to counter Warrior, but we aren’t really seeing that.

Mesmer has always been a strong class, it’s one major weakness is conditions. Now that you have Warrior around to counter Necromancers and Rangers, Mesmers should be able to easily re-enter the PvP arena in the role of support (portal, it’s still a great help) and Warrior slayer.

On the subject of Warrior, the class currently has the greatest number of viable builds of any class. If you ask me, I would say that the current Warrior is the standard that all other classes should be compared to.

One role that needs expanding is that of mid bunker. Right now that position has been dominated by Guardian, no other class can do it quite as well as they can. Most would agree that Ele is under-preforming currently. A good role for them to take up would be mid bunker. If they become just as viable as Guardian, but in different ways, it would lead to more team variety. Engis are another candidate for this role as well.

I believe that the ideal team composition would be as follows:
- [A Condition dealer] – Spirit Ranger, Necromancer
- [Lockdown] – Stun Warrior, Thief (so many dazes/stuns)
- [Support/Counter Lockdown] – Mesmer, Thief, Engi (if given appropriate buffs)
- [Mid Bunker] – Guardian, Ele, Engi
- [Choice] – Any class, probably some sort of home bunker

With this model, no class is left out in the cold. Every class has a viable role to play and each role can be filled by multiple classes. The [Choice] position is where things can get interesting. If one team opts for double Spirit Ranger, they may do well against certain team compositions, but they run the risk of being destroyed by a double Stun Warrior team. That Warrior team also runs the risk of encountering a Mesmer/Mesmer or Thief/Mesmer team.

I feel that ANet might actually be moving towards this thought, because rather than doing mass nerfs, they are focusing on minor shaves and buffs. The upcoming patch on the 15th sounds like it will be mostly buffs to support, which is something PvP is lacking currently.

I know Anet has made a good number of mistakes since launch, but let’s face it, GW2 PvP has the most potential out of any MMO on the market. It’s combat is so action oriented that it’s the most enjoyable experience that I’ve had since GW1. I just hope that eventually it can live up to its legacy.

If you play SoloQ and decide to run a “hard” build, chances are you are screwing over your teammates by running something that is an inferior build. It’s different than say, 64 man Battlefield where it’s not a big deal of you run a weapon/kit that is considered weaker than average. In most BF games you are a single guy in a large battle and so long as you are gong for the objective, you are useful. In GW2 PvP there’s only 5 per side, one guy running a weak build can mean a lost team battle.

Also, there is not a single class/build in this game that is “hard” to play by most people’s standards. This isn’t Counter Strike, it takes very little effort to learn any class. Engi and ele can be a bit overwhelming with how many skills they have, but it still doesn’t take that long to adjust. Yes, some specs are fairly simple to learn and to be moderately successful with, but PvP isn’t about the individual player.

It’s about the team.

I see far too many people judging what is OP or UP based on how a build preforms in 1v1, when the game isn’t balanced around duels. Think about how a build impacts team fights. A mace/shield + gs warrior is certainly strong 1v1, but in a team fight a hambow build is much more useful, but it isn’t very mobile and can’t escape quickly when focused.

As someone who plays both warrior and guardian, I still consider guardian bunkers to be far superior. The regen may be high, but they lack protection and other mechanics such as invulnerability, warriors also have less blocks. So yes, while it’s easier to play I would much rather have a guardian over a warrior bunker on my team.

The whole concept of “cheese” builds is also baffling in this game. A warrior using it’s class mechanic is “cheesy?” A ranger using its utility skills, at the cost of a stun breaker/stability, is “cheesy?” Traditionally, something that is cheesing is using a high risk/high reward tactic. It may result in an easy win, but if it fails chances are you’ve lost. A cheesy tactic in GW2 would be running all spirit rangers, hambow warriors, or maybe something as silly as all turret engis. Using a strong combo to its fullest effect isn’t cheese by my definition.

Chances are GW2 will eventually settle into a sort of “standard” team composition of Necro, Warrior, Mesmer/Thief, and Guardian, with the last player being up to the team. All these classes are the best fit for a certain role. I think that ele needs to have the option to be as strong a bunker as guardian, and perhaps engi as well. With the last spot being the teams choice they could decide to take a double of another class, which will mean that there is still plenty of room for interesting strategies to develop. “Should we take another spirit ranger? Maybe a second mesmer with a different build?” What they decide to take may give them an advantage over another team, or it could put them at a disadvantage.

Edit: I’d also like to add that the existence of easier to use builds is a good thing. It allows newcomers to come in and experience some form of success. The mistake many games make though is that they this accessible thing OP. As a result good players use it and dominate. To bring up BF3 again, many of the assault rifles, especially the M16A3, were simply better than most other weapons. Many guns were actually fairly well balanced, it’s just these few standout guns that were statically above the others that led to the majority of the playerbase using them. A better option would have been to have these “newbi” guns have low recoil/spread but less damage and a longer reload.

GW2 doesn’t have this issue, at least not to the extent of my example. Yes, there are some strong, easy to use builds. However, every one of these builds has a viable counter out there, it’s just that few are choosing to counter the current class on trial, warrior.

What I find amusing is that the same people who hate on spirit rangers are the same people who hate on stun warriors, the one class that can reliably kill them.

The way I see it it’s a bit like Rock-Paper-Scissor. Warrior kills spirit ranger, mesmer/thief kills warrior, spirits kill mesmer. The problem is I don’t see a ton of mesmers atm. It’s not like they are that weak, yes they are very weak to condi spam but the popularity of warrior has led to condi spam being much less frequent.

Artaz.3819:

Here’s how you shave without gutting the current Stun-Warrior meta:

Take Unsuspecting Foe from Adept in Arms to Grandmaster and move the crit rate in the talent from 50% to 100% – equivalent to Thief Hidden Killer (so it won’t entirely kill the CC meta build but will put it in its place as a CC build and not a CC + burst DPS build).

Take Furious and swap it to the Adept trait and make it so it creates double/triple Adrenaline (not 4x Adrenaline) on crit.

Helps the CC build perform its function and removes the massive spike DPS issue (when coupled with CC).

Like anyone would spec 30 points into Arms ( a trait line that has +condition damage) when using a Hammer or Mace. This wouldn’t balance the trait, it wold simply ensure that it never gets used.

Like many classes, Warrior still has several Major and Minor traits that are pretty much worthless. There’s just no reason to run some of them. As for how to fix some of them, many just need some sort of addition to make them worth running on some specific builds so that you’ll be tempted to take them over others.

Terrible Major Traits
Strength
- Berserker’s Might
- Distracting Strikes (Although it can be good for a laugh in WvW)
- Powerful Banners
- Great Fortitude (All traits like these are really, really boring)

Arms
- Furious Speed

Defense
- Vigorous Return
- Cull the Weak (No real reason to bring over Dogged March)
- [Arguably] Spiked Armor

Tactics
- Shrug it Off

Discipline
- Thrill of the Kill
- Mighty Defenses (No reason to take over other Adept traits)

Useless Minor Traits
Tactics
- Reviver’s Might: gives ONE stack of might on revive, you could also say that the other 3 minor traits are also pretty “meh” as well

Discipline
- Versatile Power, maybe not useless but a single stack of might is fairly lack luster.

IFreedom.4637:

Strange how most of the whiners and qqers here are mostly thiefs and yet u seldom see warriors going to other classes to whine. Grow a beard please.

I posted this in another thread that was suggesting that Warriors need to be “shaved.” Your beard comment made me think of it. I actually have one of the new haircuts now though :P.

Clearly the Devs never respond to anything…

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Not any class chains cc though (except necro fear chain). Im not against the stuns since I run with 3 stunbreakers but just stating that the most qq goes to a stun chain rather than being hit by one stun.

That’s the whole point of Hammer though, It’s a chain CC weapon. You can only do the complete chain every 25 seconds and if you miss a Backbreaker against a good opponent it may not end up being so hot for you.

I don’t now how you could change anything about Hammer without making it worthless.

P.S. so excited that I’ll be able to use Staggering Blow while moving, even at a reduced speed.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Why does everyone post essentially the meta s/s+lb build and try to claim they invented something new? It’s weird. You don’t see people posting Mace/Shield+GS builds acting like they just discovered the new world, but when it comes to this condition build people act like an angel appeared to them in the night and gave them some revealed wisdom.

I totally claimed that I discovered the new world

Just call me Columbus…

/s

(That was a joke)

wolverine.5164:

Hello, i just wanted to point out the fact that warriors are very good against melee combat, but when it comes down to condition dmg they r useless in every single aspect of the word. i’m a hardcore player and I’ve dedicated game-play months of my life to this game, been playing since first betas and i got to say warriors shrug it off trait is useless. i mean guardians can remove 2 conditions every 10 secs while warriors can remove only 1 every 30! secs its just pathetic the fact that it doesn’t matter build u use its going to end up with the same results… so pls im just asking to make this trait useful by reducing its cool down to AT LEAST 15 secs, this is just my opinion but is up to guys to take in consideration, thank you for your time and consideration.

Classes a Warrior don’t stand a chance: Mesmer’s/Necromancers. (if u think u do stand a chance its because uve fought very nub/weak Mesmer’s or Necromancers).

Wha…I don’t even…

Warriors has some of the best condition mitigation/removal in the game currently.

Here, look at this

This build will have no problem squashing any condition based build, especially Necromance. Cleansing Ire removes up to 3 conditions in a burst, and with a bow you can guarantee it won’t miss. Berserker Stance is 8-10 seconds of immunity to all conditions that don’t have their duration increased, and what does get trough lasts for a very brief duration.

Yes, Shrug it off isn’t that great, mostly because if you’re running shouts you’ll probably take Lung Capacity and if you aren’t using shouts there’s still better traits. It might make more sense for it to replace Reviver’s Might as the Grandmaster minor trait seeing as all it does currently is gives ONE stack of might when you revive someone. Or perhaps it could be combined with Lung Capacity and given a 45 second CD.

Still, while I’m all for reducing the number of pointless/underused traits, this is fairly low on the priorities list.

honovi.7893:

Wuflric Glacius.2078:

You complain when warriors compare sor with traits added but you just did that. Actual number values mean nothing when they’re used to fill different pools. Each heal gives ~2% of the total healthpool. That means to go from 1hp to Max it takes roughly the same time. If that’s not balanced to you then this is a personal vendetta against healing signet and warriors in general.

Also you said 862 hps, adrenal health ticks every 3 so that’s wrong there.

You’d be better off comparing war’s heal with necro or eles to thief or guardian as they’re at the same healthpool wise. The elementalist and war are just so different that they can’t be effectively compared using raw numbers.

Ah. Thank you. I knew i made an error somewhere. The MAXIMUM healing for a warrior is 592 HPS. The theoretical HPS is 492 HPS.

Anyways. Ele and warrior can be effectively compared using raw numbers. Would it be fair if anet made a class with 50,000 health and had him heal for 1000 health per second? I sure do not think so… Conversely, would it be fair if they made a class with 5000 hp and had him heal for 100 health per second. They both heal for 2% of their health, but they are at a clear disadvantage…

People always over-estimate Adrenal Health, with the Hammer/Longbow build you’re using your adrenaline so much you hardly get any real healing out of it.

Comparing any sort of skill/trait across classes doesn’t work because every class is so different mechanically. One heal may be stronger than another but if the class with a weaker heal has other minor heals or boons like protection then it makes sense. In the case of Warrior the regen is high because he have no access to protection outside of runes or through Quick Breathing (which requires removing Vulnerability). This regen is strong 1v1 and even in team fights if no one is directly targeting you but you can drop them pretty fast if you focus fire. I have yet to see a “bunker” regen Warrior with banners that can survive as well as a Guardian with frequent blocks/protection.

All 3 of you sound like pretty cool guilds. I would be willing to do a trail run with all of you before making a decision. I’m working a few midnights so I’ll only be able to be on for a few hours tomorrow but my schedule should even out soon.

Also, Coo’s website is pretty awesome.

Lighter.5631:

sorrow.2364:

Want to hear the solution? Bring the base cooldown of Skull Crack and Earthshaker to 20s and 25s respectively. No nerf to any other burst skill, stun problem solved.

no, just no, get out, i mean.. seriously, you are embarrassing yourself.

I’m pretty sure with that one statement nobody will ever take what he says seriously again. I’m done responding to him now after that.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

You do realize this proves my repeated claim that Warriors continue to be strong because many players simply refuse to change/adapt their builds in any way right? Can you blame people for running Warrior when there’s tons of delicious Necro and Ranger to be had? There tends to be at least one of each.

Tasty.

I’m also noticing that you are part of a very small but vocal minority, only you and maybe 3 others are actively campaigning for this view of Warriors being OP.

Because this topic is in the Warrior subforum thanks to daecollo.

Back when it was in the sPvP subforum (as it was supposed to be, since it is an sPvP topic), I got way more consensum then on a profession subforum, which is well known to be frequented by biased players.

The discussion on this topic died when it was moved here from the sPvP subforum. I don’t even know why I am keep arguing, Warrior main players just don’t want to see reason.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The problem is, you can not nerf stuns without nerfing every burst skill. The CD reduction is tied to the Brawn “stat” in Discipline, it seems really unfair to nerf burst in general for 2 skills.

People also keep on talking like everyone insta uses the burst on cooldown which certainly isn’t the case.

You can easily use the burst on cooldown with the 0/10/30/0/30 build.

Want to hear the solution? Bring the base cooldown of Skull Crack and Earthshaker to 20s and 25s respectively. No nerf to any other burst skill, stun problem solved.

I don’t even know if that’s possible in the current game engine. I would guess that all burst skills are tied to the F1 mechanic. I have to wonder if it’s possible to change the recharge of burst skills without totally changing how burst works.

Also, just because you CAN burst on cooldown doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. You have to wait for some kind of opening. I would say the stuns come every 10-15 seconds on average.

Also 20s and 25s…for a 2s and 3s stun…now I KNOW you have no concept of balance

I would INSTANTLY never touch Mace/Hammer again with such absurdly long CDs.

^ The bottom line is that you can’t compare any skill/trait from one class to another without taking every mechanic from both classes into account. Some things are intentionally weaker than similar skills because them being as good as that other skill will probably lead to it becoming stupidly strong.

That being said most everyone agrees that Ele is weak atm, but that’s no reason to nerf Warrior.

Xaylin.1860:

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Unviable Yep.

Here is a picture of me vs Three Warriors.

Completely outplayed me with there awesome god-like-ness.

Daecollo, you have posted an heavily cut, uncensored edited image in which you can’t even distinquish the warriors and probably shot in hotjoins.

How can that picture mean something?

You really should post the build you’re using. I get the feeling that you’re trying to be funny but this comes off more like a troll. I know this means little coming from me but you always present your points in such a…annoying fashion.

That being said some people think that I’m highly biased and ignore any counter arguments. I don’t feel this is true, sure of course I’m biased as a Warrior main but I still have yet to see any reasonable suggestions on how to balance Warriors. Most “suggestions” would send the class back to the stone age after a year-long journey to get where they are.

The only point I will concede that Skull Crack could use a better animation, but we better get a kitten cool looking animation. Maybe have a giant orange-red colored ether hand…thing.

Recently, there are many minion necromancers in hotjoins. Because – jeez, I can’t believe that I am saying this – Daecollo is right when saying that (minion) necros are quite good against warriors. Havint that said, the “trololololo, I faceroll 3 warriors” is bull. The screen is totally out of context and 3 stun warriors can shut anyone down.

The other pics with the “HS is countered by poison” and the “blind kills warriors” mimimi provide the same value to a constructive discussion as the one just posted: none. It’s just plain wrong. And it annoyingly reminds me of plain propaganda.

Everyone with a reasonable amount of self-reflection and sense of balance will agree that the current popular cc warrior builds are too strong. I am not denying that a stun can be avoided by a dodge or block etc. The combination of amount, duration and frequency paired with the healing signet is the issue.

A easy fix would be a slight (!) increase of the stun cooldowns and adjusting the base healing (down) and healing coefficient (up) of the healing signet. This way the cc builds will still be as powerful as right now when played by a skilled player. But there actually is a realistic way of countering them if they fail a stun. And you can actually kill them if they do not invest in toughness or healing while running the healing signet.

The problem is, you can not nerf stuns without nerfing every burst skill. The CD reduction is tied to the Brawn “stat” in Discipline, it seems really unfair to nerf burst in general for 2 skills.

People also keep on talking like everyone insta uses the burst on cooldown which certainly isn’t the case.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

What about the 10 matches before that?

Also, who won?

I’ve won that match, you can check me on GW2shack. Also, that was the first match of the day, so can’t say about the 10 matches before.

I have a screenshot of the match after too attached. I will post match after match the professions I am matched with.

You do realize this proves my repeated claim that Warriors continue to be strong because many players simply refuse to change/adapt their builds in any way right? Can you blame people for running Warrior when there’s tons of delicious Necro and Ranger to be had? There tends to be at least one of each.

Tasty.

I’m also noticing that you are part of a very small but vocal minority, only you and maybe 3 others are actively campaigning for this view of Warriors being OP.

What about the 10 matches before that?

Also, who won?

Increasing the CD of burst skills yet again would mean they have to replace “Brawn” with another bonus, I highly doubt they’re willing to redesign the Discipline trait line yet again.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If they were over-preforming we would see multiple Warriors on each side like we did with Rangers or Necros. Them having a consistent place on a team is a GOOD thing. Ele needs to be given the ability to bunker as well as Guardian for the sake of variety. We’re seeing more team variety than ever, we even had dual Engis on TWO teams. The Winning team, Denial Esports, had Guard/War/Mes/Range/Thief, not one repeated class. Also of note, the second place team had dual Ranger and no Warrior.

RPS can work well because it means that no matter what there is a viable counter to something else. Team comp doesn’t decide the match if both teams build correctly. Granted this can hurt SoloQ but there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another character if you see that your team comp is poor. At the end of the game SoloQ is random and sometimes you’re going to get screwed by the dice.

Dual profession in a team comp is extremely rare. There was no known dual Necro team comp in any tournament and the only teams who tried to run dual profession never gone too far (dual engi, for instance, in MLG tournament or dual spirit ranger of SYNC at PAX). So no, what you are saying is not correct.

RPS is not good and I’ve explained you why. A competitive game is supposed to be based on skills, not builds.

Guild Wars 1 was that tied to builds that ArenaNet decided to completely scrap it while doing Guild Wars 2, so they know that RPS is unhealthy by experience.

Rare? 3 of the teams had doubles and one made it to the finals. Dual Spirits no less.

You can have skill in a RPS game, it comes down to who preforms their designated roles the best.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Of course you’ll do better as a Warrior, the fotm build counters what all the Necros/Rangers are running. Very few are bothering to counter it so no doubt it’ll be good.

I only really play SoloQ unless I’m short on time and need to quickly finish my daily. Like I said there seems to be a fairly equal amount of Warriors, Necros, and Rangers. If you join a match right after the last one chances are you’ll be paired up with the same people.

I’m perfectly fine with R-P-S balancing, an ideal form of that is that every class has a build that counters another classes build. That’s hard to do however but seeing as they’re focusing on buffs and not nerfs I’d say they are trying to give more options. As someone who now exclusively plays Warrior, Engi and Guardian weren’t that fun for me, I know that the Hammer/Longbow build certainly doesn’t counter everything, I listed multiple counters before.

Also, Warriors are getting nerfed in the form of the Sigil of Paralyzation change/fix/whatever. So with that and taking runs of Mel stuns will be greatly reduced in effectiveness.

I guess that we won’t come to a real conclusion if you keep saying that you meet Rangers, Necros and Warriors in the same amount and I meet pretty much only warriors, so the best thing to do is to leave the population argument out of the topic for now.

The thing I’d like to point out is that rock-paper-scissor balancing is not healthy for a competitive game. Why? Because you can determine which one is going to win by just looking at the team composition. It is boring to play, boring to watch and does not rewards skill at all.
Build, as I’ve said, should give only a very small edge over your enemy if it is a direct counter, the outcome should be determined by timing, error avoidance and, of course, class knowledge, which is pretty much what skill is in Guild Wars 2.

I’ve also pointed out that Sigil of Paralyzation change is only a minor nerf to warriors. First, because the opness of Warriors does not come from the stun duration and second because Warriors have very high base stun duration.
The builds which will be hurt by this change will be those builds with small and utility-oriented CCs, like S/P on Thief, GS and SB ranger.

BurrTheKing.8571:

EDIT: Also, take a look at this. These are supposedly the best of the best and as you can see Warriors where not over-preforming in any way.

How can you say that Warriors are not overperforming posting that when you clearly see that every team have one warrior with the same Hammer/longbow build? Only FML is an exception, but they run a pretty odd team comp anyway.

Also, it is an NA tournament. It is well known that the NA competitive scene isn’t exactly the “best of the best”.

If they were over-preforming we would see multiple Warriors on each side like we did with Rangers or Necros. Them having a consistent place on a team is a GOOD thing. Ele needs to be given the ability to bunker as well as Guardian for the sake of variety. We’re seeing more team variety than ever, we even had dual Engis on TWO teams. The Winning team, Denial Esports, had Guard/War/Mes/Range/Thief, not one repeated class. Also of note, the second place team had dual Ranger and no Warrior.

RPS can work well because it means that no matter what there is a viable counter to something else. Team comp doesn’t decide the match if both teams build correctly. Granted this can hurt SoloQ but there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another character if you see that your team comp is poor. At the end of the game SoloQ is random and sometimes you’re going to get screwed by the dice.

Of course you’ll do better as a Warrior, the fotm build counters what all the Necros/Rangers are running. Very few are bothering to counter it so no doubt it’ll be good.

I only really play SoloQ unless I’m short on time and need to quickly finish my daily. Like I said there seems to be a fairly equal amount of Warriors, Necros, and Rangers. If you join a match right after the last one chances are you’ll be paired up with the same people.

I’m perfectly fine with R-P-S balancing, an ideal form of that is that every class has a build that counters another classes build. That’s hard to do however but seeing as they’re focusing on buffs and not nerfs I’d say they are trying to give more options. As someone who now exclusively plays Warrior, Engi and Guardian weren’t that fun for me, I know that the Hammer/Longbow build certainly doesn’t counter everything, I listed multiple counters before.

Also, Warriors are getting nerfed in the form of the Sigil of Paralyzation change/fix/whatever. So with that and taking runs of Mel stuns will be greatly reduced in effectiveness.

EDIT: Also, take a look at this. These are supposedly the best of the best and as you can see Warriors where not over-preforming in any way.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Foot in the Grave + Close to Death will give you 3 seconds of Stability every 7 seconds. You also get Last Grasp with that line so that’s some Protection.

I see Warrior #‘s dropping once we see more Mesmers and burst Thieves. People running Necro/Ranger get wrecked by a Warrior because they have no counters, they make a Warrior. Now they discover that it isn’t quite as easy as they believed it to be. Yes, there’s a lot of Warriors running around right now, but how many of them are actually any good?

Also, are people basing their view of Warriors on SoloQ or Hotjoin? If you’re basing your opinion of a class on only Hotjoin then I urge you to dip into SoloQ because hotjoin is not something to base balancing decision on.

Foot in The Grave + Close to Death giving 3s of Stability every 7s is a misconception.
You can achieve that uptime of stability only if you just pop in and out from DS, without mitigating damage nor using any of the DS abilities. The real stability uptime with an average DS use is way less and way more underwhelming compared Balanced Stance or Stand Your Ground. Last Gasp, also, is just a little bit of Protection, it won’t save you from dying anyway.

Don’t fool yourself. Warriors are crazy easy to play and incredibly effective even at low skill levels. Day after day, more people are rerolling warrior from their main profession and getting easy wins with that.

You can’t really recognize a skilled Warrior from an unskilled one, since ALL the skill of a warriors is just to not stun your target if it is already stunned. Everything else is just skill spam.

I don’t play hotjoins at all. I play SoloQ and it is a mess of warriors.
I dare you to hop in and make a screenshot of a single match without at least 2 warriors in it. You have to make several attempts to succeed, guaranteed.

I have to ask, how much have you played Warrior? If at all. Hammer is hardly a simple weapon. Missing a Backbreaker can be a deal breaker because of it’s 25 second CD, and it has a really obvious animation. Hammer is similar to Guardian GS in that it has a very clear combo and missing any part of it means a dramatic reduction in effectiveness.

I honestly don’t see an absurd number of Warriors in SoloQ during the times I play. I see around an equal number of Necros, Rangers, and Warriors. If you ask me it’s more that other classes need to be brought up, not that they need to be brought down.

If you reduce the effectiveness of stuns, especially on hammer, you’ll remove it from play after it’s finally become worthwhile. Hammer is DESIGNED to lock people down, if it can’t do it what’s the point? Locking down in addition to having decent FPS and survivability is what keeps Warriors viable. We still aren’t as tanky as Guardians, nor can we burst as well as a thief. We also aren’t nearly as hard to kill as Spirit Rangers were pre nerf.

As for Foot in the Grave, you can’t overlook the fact that if you get locked down while in shroud you’re not losing HP. Necros are still very strong against most classes so it seems a bit silly to expect that you should be strong against a build designed to counter you was well. I don’t expect to be able to consistently beat a good burst Thief/Mesmer with my current build, especially if they are building to counter me. I’ve also see several power based Necros that bring poison that counter me pretty hard as well. Even Engi can bring so much protection that I can’t kill them even if I hit a full hammer combo.

And the biggest point, ANet apparently wanted Warriors to be condition Necros natural predator just like Theives and Mesmers can be to Warriors. You can’t say that necros are exactly hard to play either. In fact, no class in this game is that hard. Engi and Ele can be a bit overwhelming in # of skills at the start but once you learn them it isn’t hard either.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Unviable Yep.

Here is a picture of me vs Three Warriors.

Completely outplayed me with there awesome god-like-ness.

Daecollo, you have posted an heavily cut, uncensored edited image in which you can’t even distinquish the warriors and probably shot in hotjoins.

How can that picture mean something?

You really should post the build you’re using. I get the feeling that you’re trying to be funny but this comes off more like a troll. I know this means little coming from me but you always present your points in such a…annoying fashion.

That being said some people think that I’m highly biased and ignore any counter arguments. I don’t feel this is true, sure of course I’m biased as a Warrior main but I still have yet to see any reasonable suggestions on how to balance Warriors. Most “suggestions” would send the class back to the stone age after a year-long journey to get where they are.

The only point I will concede that Skull Crack could use a better animation, but we better get a kitten cool looking animation. Maybe have a giant orange-red colored ether hand…thing.

Two of my favorite game modes in GW1 were Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood. These game modes were a nice departure from your standard “kill the enemy team” game modes. They both involved having NPC enemies/allies that Both of these modes mixed elements from PvE while still remaining competitive. I enjoyed FA especially because of the whole attackers vs Defenders aspect.

I feel it would be a brilliant move to tie in a PvP mode like one of these with a Living Story update. If you add juuuust enough PvE into the mix you’ll stand a better chance of luring PvE players into PvP. I would say having it use current PvP gear systems would make the most sense for balance, not to mention PvP-focused players would be annoyed if it was like WvW.

Let’s not forget my favorite PvP mode from GW1, Alliance Battles. I can’t say I ever got bored of this mode, the consistent rotation of maps kept things fresh. If you made it a rotation of Server Vs Server similar to WvW but with PvP gear but doing well would give PvE benefits…well it’s a win-win if you ask me.

I really, really want PvP to be as great in GW2 as it was in 1. I understand the desire to become an esports but I feel a game mode like these would be a much needed push to get PvE players into PvP.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

October 15th patch is going to be trash. This game isn’t going to get better anytime soon with their lack of commitment to pvp and trying to do tournaments with broken metas.

Where do I buy this crystal ball that allows you to see the future?

In all seriousness though, because GW2 lacks a sub fee it may be possible for them to do minor changes to PvP over time because it’s not like there’s anything stopping people from coming back. This isn’t your traditional MMO where you have to pay for a sub again if you want to come back into the game. While it is a shame how slow PvP has been developing, I feel it has improved over the last year.

Even the meta is starting to even out. Warriors kill Rangers/Necros and I’m starting to see more Thieves/Mesmers designed to kill Warriors. Guardians are still good bunkers, Engi can also build to be anti-warrior and while not amazing it’s still a strong class. The only class that is in the gutter is Ele, which is a shame but we’ll see what the 15th brings for them.

I do share the same disappointment with many GW1 vets with how underdeveloped PvP is but even in it’s current state I feel it’s the best MMO PvP out there, it doesn’t even feel like normal MMO combat because of how much more involved it is.

My solution is to enjoy every part of this game because the bi-weekly PvE updates is a great part of the game, I just hope someday PvP becomes as enjoyable as GW1. I’d love to see modes similar to Jade Quarry or Fort Aspenwood. I get that ANet want’s to perfect their current game mode but even ONE new game mode would bring some back.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The only classes not seeing play are Mesmer and Ele. It doesn’t even make sense that we’re not seeing more Mesmers considering how strong they are against Warriors. Even more so because the strength of the Warrior means a decline in conditions.

Ele is the only class that is severely lacking, every other class has at least one build that is worth using in PvP. That’s a hell of a lot better than any meta before now. Thieves and Mesmers can step up and keep Warriors in check we’re just not seeing many actually bothering to do so. I have also seen very few Necros/Rangers actually change their builds at all to mitigate stuns.

Mesmer are seeing a lot of play to be honest. The meta is shifting pushing Mesmer back in, it isn’t no more like it was 2 months ago were you see no mesmers at all in competitive play.

You can see that in SoloQ, TeamQ and high level PvP mesmers are fairly represented.

Warrior is by far over popular, which clearly means that people have decided to reroll Warrior because it is way more effective compared to other professions. It has the same representation, or even more, of Necromancers and Spirit Rangers back on the apex of their opness.

Of course the meta is better than any meta before (otherwise we aren’t getting better, but worse), that doesn’t mean that Warriors can’t use a little nerf to bring them on par with other professions.

As I’ve pointed out (probably in another topic), Necros suffers from really bad stun mitigation, even if they build completely for it. They don’t have enough tools to kite the warriors, neither the tools to avoid to be hit.
A Warrior can pop his long-lasting stability, so does the Guardian.
A Thief can just teleport away, a Ranger can block or evade the stuns, an Engineer can kite like a boss, spam blindness and block. A Mesmer can blink away, an Elementalist has not that much tools too. What about Necros? Stunbreakers, period.

Foot in the Grave + Close to Death will give you 3 seconds of Stability every 7 seconds. You also get Last Grasp with that line so that’s some Protection.

I see Warrior #‘s dropping once we see more Mesmers and burst Thieves. People running Necro/Ranger get wrecked by a Warrior because they have no counters, they make a Warrior. Now they discover that it isn’t quite as easy as they believed it to be. Yes, there’s a lot of Warriors running around right now, but how many of them are actually any good?

Also, are people basing their view of Warriors on SoloQ or Hotjoin? If you’re basing your opinion of a class on only Hotjoin then I urge you to dip into SoloQ because hotjoin is not something to base balancing decision on.

Hey there, I am currently located in Sorrows Furnace but I am very willing to switch if a guild comes around that is active and friendly. I am more interested in joining a larger guild as I enjoy completing things like Fractals, dungeons, and World Bosses with people I know. I have multiple armor sets so I can fulfill several roles and I play to increase the number of sets to fill more. I have a lvl 80 Engi and a Guardian/Thief in the 25-30 range but honestly I’m a Warrior at heart since it was also my preferred class in GW1.

I play pretty much every aspect of the game, although I will say I haven’t played much WvW recently because I kept losing ranks with patches which was a bit frustrating. I am all for joining a guild that takes WvW seriously, but not so serious that it saps the fun out of it. I’ve been in guilds that run themselves like some sort of military op that saps my enjoyment. I play this game largely because of the social aspect so not allowing anyone but the commanders to speak while playing WvW kills the enjoyment. Of course I’ll shut up long enough for orders but like I said half the fun is interacting with people not being just another body in a zerg.

I’m an armor collector so I enjoy doing all dungeon paths in a day. I’m also interested in doing higher level fractals. World Bosses are also a great past time as well. My current long term goal is to craft a legendary and get cultural armor. I wasn’t that interested in any of the Legendary weapons up till now (as a human male Warrior not many armor sets that look cool enough with them imo) but I’ll probably start working on it now that the Ascended weapon tier exists, if I’m going to have to grind out for the best stats I might as well go all the way.

I do play a decent amount of PvP, but considering its current state that is probably my lowest priority. If your guild doesn’t bother with it that’s fine but if there are some willing to do some TPvP that’s great.

As you may have picked up I’m a pretty social person and I play because I enjoy doing content with others. I know it’ll probably be hard to find a guild that is not only fairly large but also isn’t overly structured but I’m hoping I’ll get lucky and find a new group of friends to play with.

honovi.7893:

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

In the State of the Game videos it was mentioned that they felt Warriors were in a good spot. They also said that it took over a month for the current Warrior builds to develop and that they would rather wait and see to see what the players do before making any changes.

So they said that they want to let the meta settle before making any change.
That sentence was said way before Warrior were so popular in any gamemode. Just do a couple of SoloQ and count the Warrior population by yourself.

The meta has settled and not in a good way.

The only classes not seeing play are Mesmer and Ele. It doesn’t even make sense that we’re not seeing more Mesmers considering how strong they are against Warriors. Even more so because the strength of the Warrior means a decline in conditions.

Ele is the only class that is severely lacking, every other class has at least one build that is worth using in PvP. That’s a hell of a lot better than any meta before now. Thieves and Mesmers can step up and keep Warriors in check we’re just not seeing many actually bothering to do so. I have also seen very few Necros/Rangers actually change their builds at all to mitigate stuns.

I can agree with you here for some of the things said. But for others, i cannot. For example, mesmers have the strong boon strip shatter trait which would cripple warriors (and many other classes) but we are not seeing it for one reason or antother. It may be because phantasms get AOEd to death too quickly or because mesmers fall susceptible to single target burst (thieves).

I completely agree with what you say about necros. Necros whine “but you can cc us!!!!”. Necros actually have good stunbreakers AND ways to mitigate cc. They simply choose not to use them because LOLCONDITIONS.

As for the ranger- Ranger’s stunbreaks are bad. Simple as that. The only one worth taking is lighting reflexes (signet of renewal is not for the stun break….). Rangers get wrecked by warriors pure and simple.

I think the problem with other classes not stepping up to burst warriors is endure pain. This skill allows warriors to keep pressure up on berserker classes while not taking any damage. I’m not saying it needs a nerf because it makes warriors very susceptible to conditions. It is just part of the game.

If Mesmers receive any buffs in terms of survival they will become unstoppable killing machines.

BM Rangers are a good match vs stun builds, it’s just that many perceive the build to be inferior to Spirit Rangers…yet they are dying much more to stuns because at best they either have one resist or go stealth on stun which does nothing as I’ll just continue the combo.

That being said, pets need to be revamped so that the Ranger has more control over them.

sorrow.2364:

BurrTheKing.8571:

In the State of the Game videos it was mentioned that they felt Warriors were in a good spot. They also said that it took over a month for the current Warrior builds to develop and that they would rather wait and see to see what the players do before making any changes.

So they said that they want to let the meta settle before making any change.
That sentence was said way before Warrior were so popular in any gamemode. Just do a couple of SoloQ and count the Warrior population by yourself.

The meta has settled and not in a good way.

The only classes not seeing play are Mesmer and Ele. It doesn’t even make sense that we’re not seeing more Mesmers considering how strong they are against Warriors. Even more so because the strength of the Warrior means a decline in conditions.

Ele is the only class that is severely lacking, every other class has at least one build that is worth using in PvP. That’s a hell of a lot better than any meta before now. Thieves and Mesmers can step up and keep Warriors in check we’re just not seeing many actually bothering to do so. I have also seen very few Necros/Rangers actually change their builds at all to mitigate stuns.

sorrow.2364:

Red Falcon.8257:

Anet doesn’t think Hsign is unbalanced btw, no mention of this in the 15oct preview.
We are “pretty decent” in WvW and sPvP.

You guys just want to nerf Warriors instead of learning to play against them.
Well, bad news, Anet never nerfed anything just because a few people haven’t learned to counter it.
Thieves had 7000% more tears on their forums on backstab and haven’t gotten nerfed because backstab is balanced; same for Hsigned.

Stun meta will be fixed with the sigil fix, as for the rest you’ll have to forget that Warrior will be a free kill; I fear you will really have to learn.

I don’t know how you can know that ANet doesn’t think at all that HS isn’t unbalanced, have you some sort of internal source from ANet? As far we know, they can nerf HS in the next patch.

It has been talked about a lot of times about said “counters” and how they are uneffective compared to other healing skills.

It has been said that Healing Signet cannot be interrupt and it is less susceptible to poison compared to any other standard healing skill, while healing a lot more over time. I really don’t know what are the counters you are talking about.

People complained about the backstab combo, not backstab itself. The backstab combo was heavily and rightfully nerfed. First Assassin Signet, then Cloak and Dagger damage and finally Mug not critting anymore.

Stun meta will not be fixed with the sigil fix. The sigil fix is a nerf only to short lasting stuns, like Hilt Bash, Headshot, Sleight of Hand and so on, while warriors stuns, which have usually a very long base duration, are pretty much unaffected.

In the State of the Game videos it was mentioned that they felt Warriors were in a good spot. They also said that it took over a month for the current Warrior builds to develop and that they would rather wait and see to see what the players do before making any changes.

Maugetarr.6823:

dash.1952:

Sifu.6527:

jmatb.6307:

This will not be a problem once Paralyzation doesn’t add an entire second to the stuns. Your QQ is somewhat justified now, but at the same time there are the following options:

dodging
kiting
stun breaks
ranged damage
blinking out of their LOS
stealth
your own CC
retreating
playing one so you know its weaknesses on your main
etc…

Mesmer does fine against Warrior 1v1

As a necro:

dodging – I do not have access to vigor
kiting – I’m a slow kitten necro with no mobility
stun breaks – Limited stun breaks
ranged damage – Can’t because I cannot kite nor does my ranged damage really do any damage vs a berz stance warrior
blinking out of their LOS – No mobility
stealth – What stealth?
your own CC – Cant because of berz stance or they have stability
retreating – No mobility to get out
playing one so you know its weaknesses on your main – I have one and I own necro so hard

I’m not a good player so any other tips on fighting a stun warrior as a necro would be greatly appreciated. Thanls.

As a necro player, I second this greatly. I have timed my dodges, and use every CC I have available. The problem is, the warrior has too great of a mobility with access to too many stuns for me to even be effective against them. Against decent stun warriors, yeah, I can kill them. But against a skilled stun warrior, it’s GG as there is nothing I can do to counter him (and I have timed my fear between their stability, and tried kiting with a 25% speed signet—they still catch up easily).

Some classes can deal with stun warriors more easily. The issue as a necro is, we are an easy target for them (and yes, I can drop a 5 sec stability with a 60 sec cd, which does little). I think the stun should be reviewed, because if I’m using all of my available resources and still getting stuck in massive stun locks, something is wrong.

For anyone that may think I need to learn to play, I’m ranked high on the solo leader board, and know my class mechanics extremely well as an MM. I’m not advocating for stun to be removed, just for it to be reviewed in light of the situation. I’m all for a class to be challenging, and love seeing warriors back as a competitor since their class revamping.

If built for it, can’t necros have 3 seconds of stability every 7 seconds at this point (near to death + foot in the grave)?

Don’t bother, I suggested the same thing to another Necro and he said that he shouldn’t have to build to counter one build.

Cause you know, Warriors don’t have aaaannnyyttthhhinnnggg in their builds to ensure they don’t get killed by Necros. /s

Excalibur.9748:

But roaming isn’t what decides who wins in WvW, zergs do. Nerfing something because it’s a strong roamer makes no sense at all.

Warrior is top notch in zergs too.

So? Like I said WvW balance isn’t ever going to be “good,” not to mention that the success of a zerg is more about coordination and leadership than the classes/builds in the group. WvW is the last game mode you would ever want to balance around.

Mr. Sharp has said in the past that they want to do as few PvE/PvP splits as possible because implementing them is difficult. I can understand that. Going by that logic then sPvP balance should take president over WvW, the problem with PvE balance is more about the mechanics of PvE (only 25 stacks per condi) rather than class balance.

Excalibur.9748:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Excalibur.9748:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Yamsandjams.3267:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

You play a Thief, you only played a Warrior temporarily to learn about them. Your not a hard-core Warrior player.

I have almost as many games played as warrior as I have playing as thief for sPvP.

Show me a picture of “Games by profession.”

http://i.imgur.com/K1gSsqE.png

Not that i’m saying your a liar, but could you show the stats/wins/loses as well?

http://i.imgur.com/1JaXd71.jpg

Wait…wait

So you’ve been commenting on how OP Warriors are in PvP and yet you’ve hardly played any PvP at all!?

Even if you were arguing from a WvW point of view, the balance in that game mode will ALWAYS be bad. The differences of gear/food means it’ll always be chaos there, which to me is half the fun.

I feel like I’ve wasted so much time arguing with a guy unqualified to actually have their opinion taken seriously.

None of this matters anyways since I have more achievement points than anyone here. My opinions are always more valid.

My point is, Excal has been commenting like he’s some sort of expert yet he’s hardly actually PLAYED any PvP. I don’t feel that someone who hasn’t put many hours into a game mode is qualified to judge what is and isn’t OP.

While time spent doesn’t necessarily equate to knowledge, a lack of time means you are much less likely to have knowledge on what the balance of the game currently is.

So sPvP is PvP and WvW is not PvP?

Besides most people don’t play sPvP because it’s kinda a waste of time. I hardly doubt I’m the only one who doesn’t play sPvP that much.

While it may have players fighting each other, WvW is closer to PvE than it is to sPvP. The idea behind PvP is that everyone is on equal terms when it comes to gear. Everyone has the optimal stats in the form of amulets and you can also have the runes you want.

In WvW there can be massive differences in gear. Food also has a major effect on the outcome of a fight. The individual class balance is also much less important than in sPvP. The thing shaping the outcome of WvW tends to be large organized groups. The WvW balance is nowhere near as important as sPvP balance.

Also, according to one of the State of the Games sPvP population has been growing according to ANet. Not sure if that’s still holding true but it’s certainly not dead. Anyways the whole point is that I fail to see how you’re qualified to comment on class balance when you hardly play the mode that balance is most important in.

Don’t you roam? It’s pretty easy to draw conclusions on game balance if you roam a lot when you play WvW since you can run into a lot of 1v1s with skills players. It’s true that the majority in WvW run builds suited for zergs and may not be that great, but roamers in the upper tiers ( I play on T2, Tarnished Coast) are very decent and come equipped with 1v1 focused builds usually.

But roaming isn’t what decides who wins in WvW, zergs do. Nerfing something because it’s a strong roamer makes no sense at all.

Excalibur.9748:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Yamsandjams.3267:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

You play a Thief, you only played a Warrior temporarily to learn about them. Your not a hard-core Warrior player.

I have almost as many games played as warrior as I have playing as thief for sPvP.

Show me a picture of “Games by profession.”

http://i.imgur.com/K1gSsqE.png

Not that i’m saying your a liar, but could you show the stats/wins/loses as well?

http://i.imgur.com/1JaXd71.jpg

Wait…wait

So you’ve been commenting on how OP Warriors are in PvP and yet you’ve hardly played any PvP at all!?

Even if you were arguing from a WvW point of view, the balance in that game mode will ALWAYS be bad. The differences of gear/food means it’ll always be chaos there, which to me is half the fun.

I feel like I’ve wasted so much time arguing with a guy unqualified to actually have their opinion taken seriously.

None of this matters anyways since I have more achievement points than anyone here. My opinions are always more valid.

My point is, Excal has been commenting like he’s some sort of expert yet he’s hardly actually PLAYED any PvP. I don’t feel that someone who hasn’t put many hours into a game mode is qualified to judge what is and isn’t OP.

While time spent doesn’t necessarily equate to knowledge, a lack of time means you are much less likely to have knowledge on what the balance of the game currently is.

So sPvP is PvP and WvW is not PvP?

Besides most people don’t play sPvP because it’s kinda a waste of time. I hardly doubt I’m the only one who doesn’t play sPvP that much.

While it may have players fighting each other, WvW is closer to PvE than it is to sPvP. The idea behind PvP is that everyone is on equal terms when it comes to gear. Everyone has the optimal stats in the form of amulets and you can also have the runes you want.

In WvW there can be massive differences in gear. Food also has a major effect on the outcome of a fight. The individual class balance is also much less important than in sPvP. The thing shaping the outcome of WvW tends to be large organized groups. The WvW balance is nowhere near as important as sPvP balance.

Also, according to one of the State of the Games sPvP population has been growing according to ANet. Not sure if that’s still holding true but it’s certainly not dead. Anyways the whole point is that I fail to see how you’re qualified to comment on class balance when you hardly play the mode that balance is most important in.

Yamsandjams.3267:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

You play a Thief, you only played a Warrior temporarily to learn about them. Your not a hard-core Warrior player.

I have almost as many games played as warrior as I have playing as thief for sPvP.

Show me a picture of “Games by profession.”

http://i.imgur.com/K1gSsqE.png

Not that i’m saying your a liar, but could you show the stats/wins/loses as well?

http://i.imgur.com/1JaXd71.jpg

Wait…wait

So you’ve been commenting on how OP Warriors are in PvP and yet you’ve hardly played any PvP at all!?

Even if you were arguing from a WvW point of view, the balance in that game mode will ALWAYS be bad. The differences of gear/food means it’ll always be chaos there, which to me is half the fun.

I feel like I’ve wasted so much time arguing with a guy unqualified to actually have their opinion taken seriously.

None of this matters anyways since I have more achievement points than anyone here. My opinions are always more valid.

My point is, Excal has been commenting like he’s some sort of expert yet he’s hardly actually PLAYED any PvP. I don’t feel that someone who hasn’t put many hours into a game mode is qualified to judge what is and isn’t OP.

While time spent doesn’t necessarily equate to knowledge, a lack of time means you are much less likely to have knowledge on what the balance of the game currently is.