(edited by Casia.4281)
in wvw and pve, direct damage completely outpaces condition damage vs all targets.
Even high armored ones. And vs low armor it is a joke.
Hit a level 40 player with 1500 armor in WvW with 2800power and they implode.
Hit them with condition damage and… its the same as hitting a level 80.
And due to the multiple forms of + % hp buffs, in wvw. cond damage is again basically useless in wvw. realm, guild both give hp buffs. Orbs did as well.
Because stats are capped in spvp, its not as bad, and the equation is much more even.
Direct damage till mathematically outpaces condition damage. But we aren’t talking about 20k hits anymore.
Condition damage scales with level, and not gear directly.
And scales with only +duration. sortof. it also has the issue of being nullified post application.
While direct damage, has vulnerability, crit, crit damage, power, weapon damage, % damage traits. Runes that increase % damage, sigils that increase % damage.
toughness is inherently weaker then power due to the formula.
power/(toughness+armor)
People defending flamethower. just lol.
Making good use of your toolbelt skills is important.
Grenades for example as noted, are pretty weak atm, until you get the 30 point trait at level 60. that said however, the grenade toolbelt skill, grenade barrage is INCREDIBLY powerful. the highest single damage skill we have. Especially when leveling, where you are killing a pack of npcs every 15s or so. you can basically then use barrage to nearly 1 shot ever other pack.
Toolkits Throw wrench is very good for this as well. you might run with that, just for throw wrench and never actually swap to the kit itself.
Rocket boots.
Rifle turret also both have really good toolbelt skills.
(Flamethower is pretty bad by itself, but the fact its toolbelt skill is SO bad, pretty much seals its fate. )
Neutral combo fields would be a BRILLIANT addition.
Glue shot.
Neutral combo field.
First finisher? to hit it, powers it up.
Rocketboots? turns into a fire field.
Throw wrench? turns into a light field. (lets say most, weapon, not a clear element finishers are light)
PDV? turns into a poison field.
Rifle leap? fire
Blowtorch with its new blast? fire.
explosive shot? fire
Next finisher activates like normal.
There are a ton of skills that would be perfect for this for all professions.
The first problem that needs to be addressed is coated bullets.
P1 was nerfed into the ground because p1 with coated bullets was apparently judged too good.
so. Option 1, would be to smack whoever nerfed p1, and say. HEY p1 isn’t THAT good even at .4 scaling, and aoe 4s aoe bleed AND coated bullets. 30 point trait that only effects 1 skill, and only has a benefit in rare situations with 3 or more targets stacking into a 120 aoe area.
Option 2. If there isn’t going to be wake up call on that. Then coatedbullets needs to be removed entirely Replaced with something else. And P1 still needs to be restored to its pre-nerf values. How coated bullets adds +30% cond duration when using pistols? something.
.4 scaling, 4s bleed on aoe hit.
Option 3. .5s recast.
All 3 options, it also should count as an “explosion” for all explosion based traits.
Seriously though, coated bullets is a serious problem right now for pistols. P1 is one of the worst skills in the game currently, because CB exists. At the same time, its a 30 point trait, that does nothing for p3-5 at all. and barely effects p2, due to ITS spread.
so you are being punished for not taking it, and basically have to. yet its barely doing anything overall. And in fact, the only thing making CB good atm, is what is almost certainly a bug, wherein it explodes on contact, max range, letting you get double hits single target if you position yourself right. Was p1 nerfed to balance a bug?
PDV. there are 3 volleys in the game. Warrior, eng and ranger. Warrior volley is single target, can be traited to pierce, 3s channel. Engi, is single target, spreads, can be traited to pierce, 2.5s channel. Ranger is 5 shots, fan, .85s cast.
Engi is kindof in the middle there obviously. Worst of both worlds. haha.
War is high dps short to long range. Tons of burst, won’t miss. Ranger is a shotgun. high damage at point blank, but low at long range. Yeah, I would probably rather ranger mechanics with a piercing coated bullets on PDV then what we have now.
Static is great as is.
Blowtorch. Burn great. 6s is nearly perfect duration for conditions. direct hit however… Way way way too low for such a move. Should be 1.9scaling, not 1.1.
Alternatively, blast combo.
glue is pretty great as is really too. A combo field would be neat though. Not entirely sure what one would work best though. blast+poison is weakness right? That would actually work well with the set.
the frequency of incorrect patch notes is troubling.
None of them work in our favor because, oddly enough, the ones that do upset the balance of things, in the dev’s opinion.
Sure, the rest basically cripple us, but that’s no big deal, right? Right?
Its simply the triage nature of patching.
Bugs, and content are assigned an order of importance.
How easy is it to fix?
How many players are effected?
How damaging is this to the game?
A gamebreaking bug, like the snowflake bug, or karma weapon bug. Which has the potential to completely ruin the game, gets a very high order of importance.
At the same time, its also much easier to fix, then lets say the wvw culling, which is also kindof game breaking.
On the other hand, and “underpowered” bug is very low on the list. Players will naturally avoid something that is weak. So things that are too strong need to be addressed before things that are too weak.
I mean think about it.
Lets say there are 10 skills. 1 is 150% stronger then the rest. 8 are 100%, and 1 is 50%.
When 1 is 150% power, then it is the only viable option. everything else becomes secondary.
But that 50% power skill? who cares, there are still 8 completely viable ones.
An OP skill is a much bigger problem then an UP one.
This is not to say, our skills do not need attention. they really do. Reality here is kits are 90% of our skills, turrets 50%. so the math HERE is grenades were 1 150% skill, rifle was 4 100% power skills, and then we have 54 60% power skills on our kits, and pistol.
(I also do not agree with HOW they “fixed” grenades..)
But do keep perspective.
There are a few, but they are exploits so no one talks about them. And threads that do, get deleted.
10 out of 10 engis use supply drop.
I see a nerf coming.
7second cast I think sounds about right.
I’ll see if I can ID the issue. There is something going on there.
When I was retesting this today to see if something had changed.
my listed EG 1 damage went from 285, to 290 when I equipped rifled barrels. back and forth adding, and subtracting it, as I added/removed the trait.
But during the process of testing, it went back to 285, and stayed there. I have not identified the cause.
Elixir F have been stealthy buffed – BWE version restored
From : 8 sec cd / 3 sec swift / 3 sec slow
To : 5 sec cd / 6.5 sec swift / 5 slowTrasmute from 3% > 8%
A little nerf to bleed damage
A little buff to our burn
A little buff to Pistol main attack
Gear Shields from 25 sec cd > 20They doing their stealth research :P
what buff to burn and pistol main attack? what nerf to bleed?
The elixir F is a “rifled barrels” bug. And its not new.
It SAYS its 5s cripple and swiftness, when you have rifled barrels equiped, however its still only 3.
Rifled barrels is pretty silly for EG. It does all sorts of weird things.
EG without rifled barrels.
EG1. 1s weakness, 4s bleed. .4 scaling 900 range
EG2. 3s cripple, 3s swiftness. .75 scaling. 8s cd 900 range.
EG5. lists the correct aoe heal, pulse, light combo. 900 range.
With rifled barrels. (which is supposed to increase range.)
EG1. 3s weakness, 3s bleed. 1200 range. .4 scaling. 1200 range.
EG2. SAYS 5s cripple, 5s swiftness. .75 scaling. 5s CD, 1200 range.
it IS, 3s cripple, 3s swift, .75 scaling. 5s CD, 1200.
EG5 says 60 impact heal, 12 pulse, 1200 range. And thats it. Aka, level 1, beta tooltip. haha. It works fine though.
Fireforged, and rifled and Elixir F
Elixir F with its 5s CD is not effected by fireforged.
Super elixir, will say 15s CD, tick to 14s, then shift to 19s immediately.
Fireforged without rifled, gives super elixir a 16s CD. it will also say 15s, tick to 14, then shift back to 15 again.
Elixir F is a 6.5s cd with fireforged.
In hindsight, I think, I thought 5s CD was elixir F’s natural CD. Which probably explains why its so strong.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Ever heard the saying “jack of all trades, but master of none”
which can mean that the person knows a little about a lot, but isn’t an expert, and his opinion is not worth much….^^
Except, just like early wow druids that is the exact opposite of what they are.
I actually played a druid in wow. and yeah.
You had a healing talent tree, a offensive casting talent tree, and a melee tree.
But since you are limited to gear with limited stat allocation, and a limited number of talent points to place into your trees, you HAD to FOCUS your gear and talents into a very specific direction, to be on par at best with everyone else.
Here without a trinity, things are not as bad. But the core issue with engineer traits remains. Our traits have less versatility built into them. there is nothing, “jack of all trades” about the engineer.
in theory anyway. the KB doesn’t always work like it should.
Using the KB to get out of a knockdown for example, seems to be really ineffective.
The direction you rocket boot as well, is not reliable. I have had many times were I rocket forward from the boots,
seriously, steelpacked and grenadier is nuts. think about it. 2 gren to 3. that is 50% right there, and not just damage. its going from 2 to 3 procs per throw on things that can proc, its 2 to 3 for status effects like chill. 2 5s chills=10s, 3 5s chill is 15s chill. So grenadier is not just 50% damage increase, its 50% total effectiveness increase. AND +range. lol. Steel packed on top of that as well. 1 6s duration stack of vul for each explosive. 3 per grenade throw, with grenadier. 8. EIGHT with grenade barrage with grenadier.
Lets say you are level 80 and have traited to 20 in explosives.
Your grenades will deal 1000 per throw, each.
2000 damage.
10 more points(ignoring the 100 more power)
3000 damage now just from 1 more grenade.
But each throw is also 3% more damage, up to 24% without any addition +cond duration. (.85s throw speed, and 6.6s duration due to +30% cond duration via 30 explosives)
Within 6s you and everyone else attacking your targets, will be dealing 24% more damage into that 24 stacks of vul you applied by yourself.
3720/throw
86% damage increase over 2000. Nevermind the extra damage your allies are doing. or the extra power from the passive.
Nothing comes CLOSE to that kindof powergain for 10 points.
(except for maybe coated bullets double/triple hitting in situations. haha)
Again, what did they adjust? base grenades.
(edited by Casia.4281)
really the exact opposite.
Traits are fundamentally designed to force us to focus almost exclusively on one weapon or kit.
We can’t even really do a weapon AND kit. only rifle has strong function without investing heavily into it. Pistol is woefully UP without coated bullets.
Grenades and their damage reduction just made things worse. And is pretty telling the poor thought having gone into it.
Grenade were overly strong due to the traits grenadier, and steel packed explosives.
requiring 25 and 30 points in explosives.
Those two traits represent an about 80% damage increase. An unheard of increase of power with 10 points of trait investment.
Yet, they did not nerf those two traits, to balance grenades. They nerfed the BASE grenade damage value. this now makes using grenades WITHOUT grenadier. not viable. at .33 scaling and only 2 grenades being thrown. .66/throw, at 920 average damage. That is now terrible. Less then rifle 1.
Pistols have this same problem. p1 USED to be 4s bleed, aoe, and .4 scaling.
But because of coated bullets, it was first nerfed to. 4s single target bleed, and .4s. bwe2
Then to 2s single target bleed, and .4s. bwe3. then to 2s single target bleed, and .35 aoe scaling. 1 month post release.
p1 is now AWFUL. EG 1 is more damage. you HAVE to have coated bullets, to bring pistol 1 back up to the average level of any untraited skill.
Flame thrower. Juggernaut, fireforged, and deadly mixtures.
Again, no versatility. the kit is built on at LEAST 30 points in firearms for juggernaut.
The points for fireforged and deadly are also pretty much required. no options. 50 points are basically locked into position.
Picking engi was last minute for me. I played elem mostly in beta. With some mesmer/theif action to give others a shot. but each of those were highly populated in guild, so I wanted to give engi a shot. I had THOUGHT, when I picked engi, that the ability to swap skills would mean exactly that. I could swap skills out of combat, and thus be able to address any situation with the tools needed at the time.
Need heals? EG. Need to ranged nuke. Mortar/grenades. etc.
But due to the way traits work this is not possible. It is MORE possible to swap weapons and utility skills on my MESMER then it is on my engineer. that is silly. Traiting for us, pretty much locks us into the few skills/kits we traited for. Anything else is so woefully underpowered without the complimenting traits, that it is unusable.
Chill effect, sounds like a great future utility skill.
Pretty sure adding new skills is how professions will be expanded in the future. the system will unlimited skill points, is clearly made to allow expansion. It already has some expansion via racial skills, and special preorder skills, etc.
Gadget
Cryo armor. Use:break stun stability for 5s, chill when hit for 2s.
toolbelt. Cyro ammo. 20% chance to chill on hit for 20s, 40s cd.
Yeah, the more I try to work jumpshot into my arsenal, the more I’m going to demand it gets fixed.
I died using it a few days ago vs a warrior. I overcharged him, got up and leap at him.
I had 8k hp, he had 2k. I died mid flight to a 10k eviscerate.
It needs to deal damage on contact. Not sit there and hover in melee range for .5s, THEN deal damage.
Take your pick on it. Bigger aoe, faster cast/land)its something like 2seconds travel time currently, so with its small aoe, misses at a very high rate), immune while in air, damage on contact, etc.
Everything about it currently makes it a death trap to use for anything but cheating in jump puzzles.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Tons of quality of life issues for engineer.
RNG, Slow animations on MANY skills(many elixirs, rifle leap, etc). Self CC(elixir S, rifle leap, rocket boots, overcharged shot)
Lots of traits not working at all. Or working incorrectly. And have not been addressed.
spvp, and wvw/pve are very different. This is far more true for engineers then any other profession.
In spvp stats are on runes, and ammy only. Stats on weapon, not effecting kits doesn’t happen there.
However, kit weapon damage is still low. And there are massive variances in power on kits. FT is just woefully up.
Offensive power in pve and wvw dramatically outscales defensive power. Full zerker, ascended will basically be able to instant gib full defensive builds in wvw/pve. (yes, conditions and defensive builds in wvw are doing it wrong. I will accept a nominal amount to “take the edge off” any burst, however)
But in spvp, where everyone stats are capped via set ammy’s, this is not true. Offense never attains the massive advantage. Opening up more builds, and at the same time killing most burst builds.
solo vs team play builds are still an issue. Most people talk past each other on this. The prime example of the grenade spvp builds, which are not remotely ideal in solo pvp, were anyone can basically just run you down, with your lack of CC, and need to aim in a 1v1 situation. while, in team play, the ability to lay down constant high aoe damage from range is very powerful. (hammer war knocks you down, while a grenadier lays down the carpet bombing. Gl with that)
Trait to make slick shoes on fire. Make it happen Anet.
Rocket kick does leap forward.100(sure its not alot.)
and its aoe, 5s burn, and aoe .75 skill coeff. Also auto-targets.
CC being reapplied instantly after broken is a problem with pretty much every CC breaker.
http://dulfy.net/2012/07/21/gw2-armor-previews/
I think each cultural armor has 1 that fits each profession.
Human. medium.
T1 engineer. (welding mask, coat) T2 ranger. (hides, fur)(T3 thief. (clearly thief)
Norn. Medium.
T2 engineer. these are harder. I think the t2 looks most like something a blacksmith would wear, for a norn. t3 is ranger I think.
Sylvari.
T1 engineer. flasks are part of the gear. sweet coat. (and it glows!)
T2. ranger. t3 thief or engineer as well. the “longcoat” effect works for either.
Asura.
t1 ranger. t2 thief, t3 engineer.
should come as no suprise that all 3 Asura can fit as engineer with ease.
Charr.
t1 thief. t2 engineer. t3 ranger
Conversely, these aren’t very engineer at all. which is odd.
Charr cultural is oddly “tribal”.
what does the char lands heart gear look like? the weapon drops are very “steampunk”
RNG has no place in a competitive pvp game. If they want this to be an e-sport it, RNG needs to be scrubbed from every possible thing they can find.
yeah. Ill often say it breaks all CC. however, I do mean “with 409” when I say that.
Without 409 its “stuns”, which is, stun, daze, knockdown, fear.
(sink and float probably too. dont think I ever tried it)
And 409 is cleanse 1 condition. if you have multiple conditions on you, it may not cleanse the CC.
R is way better then everything else as noted.
1:fire and forget rez.
You do not need to stop what you are doing. Throw it, and you can run off, ccing, attacking, killing, etc. This is obviously huge. how many times have you died while trying to res someone without it? kneeling in aoe, etc. Which leads to 2.
2. ranged rez. that guy in a deathzone? throw it. lava fonts, and other massive aoe deathtraps. R itself will often outheal damage that would kill you. and/or you might be able to throw down other stuff. an elixir U wall, or allies can reflect wall, etc.
3. super fast ressing. R + normal rez. double time it.
4. Self res. trolllllllo.
5. short cd. seriously its WAY shorter then every other similar skill.
6. pulse aoe condition removal. yeap.
7. self use is end full, and instant CC break.
R vs other elixirs.
U and where to use it. WvW and spvp. It is quite good. The throw has a high chance of being a block or reflect wall. Very powerful vs ranged professions, used at the right time. The self use, less so. however, it can be used for fast stomps. the long activate kills it. And the lack of any massive damage skill to pair with it. a warrior’s volley for example. we have what? auto attack?
Elixir B. great all around. mostly a raw damage boon machine. but retaliation makes it strong for pvp as well. Stats and boons without the raw utility of U’s walls.
Elixir C. seldom used but it has its place. Glass cannon pve. short CD’s on its use and throw, mean it will stack hgh higher. random boon on use also potentially stacks more boons.
Prepatch.
wvw, I first ran. grenades, B, and R.
Shortly before patch I started running Grenades, U and R most of the time. (after getting my mesmer to 80, playing without reflect became a chore. haha) U’s walls became fairly invaluable in large pvp.
Pve was B and R.
(edited by Casia.4281)
someone should have asked if you plan on hotjoin, tourney, or arranged teams first off.
What is viable in a team, and what is viable solo are two VERY different things.
What works in a tourney vs other arranged teams also varies greatly.
I have never missed overcharge or blunderbuss.
Getting hit mid leap by an eviscerate for 10k because of that stupid delay on leap. a bit irritating.
I can´t believe no one mentioned the reference to Diablo on the new random world events.
You find a chest in the open world, you open it, out comes a skritt with loads of bags on his back and starts running.
You chase after him and loot keeps fropping and you can’t let him escape to get a final chest.
That’s an obvious reference ofc and at the time I got that achievement I thought it was common but seems not many people saw that skritt yet :P
Another obvious are the way some chests open borderlands style.
Diablo is not the first one to have imps like that.
Goldenaxe comes to mind.
Mesmers and rangers don’t even glass cannon that well so it’s a pretty moot discussion. Having good skills and good traits for boosting damage helps a lot more than having precision and prowess in the same line. For example, the +10% crit chance from Scope paired with the +10% damage from Enduring Power makes a way bigger difference than 30 points in Skirmishing, which doesn’t give much of anything at all.
You have to be standing still for Scope, while enduring damage gives you 10% damage when endurance is full (i. e. – not dodging).
If you’re standing still, you’re dead. If you’re not dodging, you’re dead. These are trait bonuses that require you not to be using any tactical abilities. Hence, you are a sitting duck able to be picked off without any hard effort.
yeah. enduring would be way better if there were ways to increase end regen.
like something that gives 50% end regen all the time. or +100% regen during a vigor buff, which you can have apply every time you gain swiftness or something.
Or if you got 10% end, every time you used a toolbelt skill.
At the same time, we have to rely entirely on dodge to evade. if only we had something like overcharged shot, to break chill, immobalize, cripple and leap back, evading. or rocket boost to break stun, chill, cripple, immobalize and leap back, evading.
Or maybe something like elixir S to evade. or blinds, we need more then 8 blind options. Or perhaps an elixir that instant fills our endurance.
Ok, seriously, that 10% with full end trait is really strong, and we have tons of ways to keep our endurance full.
First of all, that’s a pro losing to a noob controlling an OP character.
You’ve lost all your credibility here in these two sentences alone.
You never had any. What “pro” loses to a noob?
Is that what’s happening here? You lose all the time but choose to believe it’s because of “balance” since you are some ultra-pro? There is nothing any noob can do that can’t be countered. You can’t blame class balance because you “don’t want to dodge.”
Not getting hit is the name of the game. Always has been, always will be. It doesn’t matter how “OP” a single attack is if it doesn’t hit anyone.
If you are losing to any class just because you can’t combat them, that is not a reflection on class balance. It’s the balance between the keyboard and the screen. Warriors are EASY prey, they aren’t even on my radar as nothing they do stands out. The only thing they have gong for them is power hits if they glass-cannon and catch someone off guard. Rangers running S/D are far deadlier opponents.
Any toughness build is a deadlier opponent than a glass-cannon.Glass cannons will forever be the realm of noobs. And the laughingstock of anyone who can avoid the bust and hit back at their squishy pinata selves.
Ok, I’ll give you one last chance before you completely embarrass yourself.
You put a Pro Racer in a Volks Beetle and race him against a Noob riding a Toyota F1 in a drag race. In a straight race w/o accidents, there’s no way a pro racer can beat a noob.
Now, you have a Pro player as an engineer against a Noob playing a warrior and let them battle head on, both having GC builds. In a battle for DPS, there’s no way an engineer can out-DPS a warrior.
If you still can’t understand, then let a rifle warrior fight a rifle engineer head-on w/o dodging/blocking. When a melee based character beats a medium/long-ranged character in a head-on ranged fight like that, isn’t it too obvious that something isn’t right?
Hopefully your mind is able to comprehend something like that. It seems that you’re too kitteny to even understand what open-mindedness means. You sir, are completely embarrassing yourself by believing in your own one-dimensional world where [Pro w/ lousy character + lousy gear] > [Noob w/ OP character + High End gears]. I’m usually a patient and cool-headed person but sometimes, people like me get tired of talking people who let their ignorance get over them.
Cheers.
Which is the ranged and which is the melee?
In this head to head, is it point blank so the engi can use its short ranged skills too?
Is the warrior starting up with full adren? or does he need to build it?
IF war doesn’t have full adren, this won’t even be close. Engi will kill that warr with auto attack, and toolbelt skills in 6seconds. And out DPS him significantly.
Full adren, its a closer fight.
Did the war start with buffs active? or did he have to hit for great justice, signet of rage, and signet of str, spending 4 seconds self buffing to get the might stacks?
No adren, and no buffs. rifle doesn’t even build adren very fast. We are talking 20seconds of buffing/building before he can even fire a buffed kill shot.
Engineer rifle 1 out damages volley AND warrior rifle 1.
how many times do we need to say it? Warrior has a self buff and KILLSHOT class mechanic. Which is nice and all. But its their class mechanic, that is what its supposed to do. Its called a burst skill for a reason. take that away, and a rifle warrior is wholly inferior to rifle engineer.
I love using bomb kit as well. Although haven’t found a way to make it work in pve. Being melee is too dangerous.
Who said any thing about being in melee range and getting hurt ?
Bomb kit is my main weapon , the good thing is that my foes can’t catch me ( thanks to speedy kits and power shoes traits )
well this is a pve thread…
Rifle is low damage? what this is.. I don’t even know…
but, I do need to address a few things.
1. Certain engi abilities seem to be balanced around having specific traits.
Pistols, grenades and flamethrower really stand out for this.
If you are not level 60, and thus can not have coated bullets, grenadier, or juggernaut.
Do not even consider them really.
(that said, I did level with pistols and grenades. lol. Pistols have been nerfed since, and grenades are good if only for grenade barrage in pve. every 30s is at worst every other mob pull. Which is a huge aoe nuke during leveling)
Otherwise grenades without steel packed and grenadier are very weak. but if you are using them for barrage alone, still good.
2. Kits scale with level innately. Anyone that has leveled in GW2 should have noticed. you level faster then you acquire gear. you will almost always be level 39 with a level 32 weapon, or the like. And you have quality on top of that. Kits are set to Rare level I think. So, while at level 80, they are still RARE and you can have exotic weapons, leveling, kits are stronger then weapons, because they are rare vs mastercraft/blue weapons that are underleveled.
3. Conditions also scale with level. (while direct does a bit as well, when you say power scales with level) cond damage scales more directly, and is not weapon dependent, such as point #2. so, your conditions will be dealing level 39 cond damage, even when still using a level 32 weapon.
Static discharge is easily the strongest leveling trait you can grab.
Bombs, TK are good leveling.
The rifle/tk build is good all game. its power is early. doesn’t depend on any core late game traits. only t1 discharge. rifle gets 10% later.. but 10% is not remotely as huge as a 50% grenadier, or 100% coated bullets. Sitting duck is early as well.
Good CC in rifle. let you take on vets.
Bomb 1 seems to have great power coefficients:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Engineer-skill-coeffs/first#post814903Imo, build for power and toughness and completely scrap +healing. No matter where, +healing never seems to be worth it. If you want to play bombs, just go for dps and take the healing as a side aspect rather than the core of the build.
It does, but it also forces you into melee, with no inherent evade, protection, etc.
full dps is not a good idea I think.
I do not have a recommended build.
Now that’s something I missed. If these 2 persons meet in game, I’d also vote hands down for the engineer simply because he’s much more skilled and knows how to utilize his skills.
On the other hand, what I was trying to point out was that when 2 players of the same skill level meet using this GC build, I doubt that the engineer can beat the warrior simply because a warrior is much more OP than an engineer, I doubt anybody disagrees. Sorry for the confusion there.
yes. I was trying to be very clear on this.
Anyone saying, zomg at that war vid. Create a warrior. Take it into spvp, or level it all the way. Try that build.
Tell me your results.
then compare to your rifle engi.
Engi rifle is better.
That extreme damage on killshot, and even volley, is largely coming from the 3 might stacks on for great justice, 5 on signet of might(10s dur, 20s cd, and 5 on signet of rage(elite)30s duration, 48s cd.
weapons swap is 1 or 2 stacks. A good 14 stacks of might on call.
Probably around 25% damage increase.
We don’t have a ton of utility skills that can crank up our might stacks. But the cost is utility. They run all signets for that damage, they have no tools at all. Just raw damage.
If people are comparing warrior vs engineer burst take few notes:
-warrior killshot deals more dmg dmg than entire engi combo
-instant
-ranged!
-lesser CD between bursts
-no warning, so it’s easier to get people of guard
-after using burst warrior still has access to volley/100b
-mobility from GS > engi mobility
1. no it doesnt. throw wrench+discharge+suprise shot+discharge is equal. add in rocket boots+discharge or googles. engi does more, on its class combo.
2. killshot is a 3s cast, not instant.
3. both are ranged.
3. 10s CD on kill shot, however the cooldowns on war might stacking are longer. one ks might be 20k, but the next one 10s later will only be 12k tops. because he lost his might stacks.
4. how is having to charge up adrenaline, then stand still for 3s not a warning? Engi on the other hand IS mobile for that damage.
5. engineer auto attack does more dps then war auto attack and volley combined. (although volley over its 3s is more burst admittedly.)
6. rifle warrior does not want to be in melee. using a GS for anything other then to build bloodlust and adrenaline stacks vs pve, would be a death sentence. He does not have net, overcharged, or tk pull, or supply drop to CC.
3k?
That’s around the mean, yeah.
wrench is 6kx2, discharge is 2. One skill for 14k. Also, not a 3second cast.When5 stacks of might, the engi would do way more damage then that war.
Even against the upleveled targets wrench seldom hits that hard. Watch the video again. And killshot is an incredibly better set of mechanics than our Rifle 5. Citing 3sec cast when the alternative is a slow, telegraphed, ground-targetted skill that should only ever hit against immobilized opponents (and how many immos does this build rock? 1.)
This video is a good player using a substandard class. It’s somewhat ironic that it’s then paired with a upleveled guardian doing similarly well. Meanwhile what other classes consider “simple” burst patterns (e.g., the increasingly popular dagger/focus elementalist) exceeds everything this build can do in terms of burst while also having better survivability.
I mean, don’t get me wrong. killshot peircing is a bit odd.
The very high uptime on all those might stacks is a bit odd.
12% damage in a t1 trait is odd. Design choices I would not have made. and probably should be looked at.Look, all this is out of scope for this thread. What’s in scope is this: The engineer build seen in this video does a lot to achieve what it does, has nearly all its utility skills dictated by the build (and only 1 of the utility slots is really a great choice, let’s not knock toolkit).
What is sacrificed, first and foremost, is a sense of being an engineer. Most of the swapping and flexibility mechanics are discarded to create this build. This build is basically trying to rebuild a rifle burst warrior, but with a result that is harder to use, higher risk, and sacrifices what few concessions to the class theme we have in our class mechanics. In this build, you play a rife warrior with fewer projectiles.
It’s not a fun build. It’s not a good build. It’s not a particularly effective build.
And I don’t mean to come down hard on you in particular with this point, but what people in the forums should be shouting for is not so much higher numbers, but to tune the skills we have so that we can play our class with the feel that was advertised. I am not demanding a T1 class because I cannot unsee the math (though I can’t). I am asking for a class that I like to play.
The war is using food, etc.
Do the same with throw wrench and it definitely does get up to 6k. each.
and comparing killshot mechanics to leap mechanics. so not even the same ballpark. why would you even begin?
The engineer build basically does exactly the same as that warrior. build a glass cannon. Full % damage traits, runes, sigils.
That war has a bit more health and armor due to being a war, but also has almost no CC. (melee kb, and cripple) has no stun breaker. all its utility and elite are spent on might stacking.
You accuse the engi of doing that, yet has supply drop still, Toolkit utility, and a stun breaker. (I would go further and recommend rocket boots over goggles as noted though. blast combo, stun breaker, CC break. more damage. )
Have you played a rifle warrior? Seriously, engi rifle is better. 20k every 10s, on a 3s cast is not as good as chain firing wrench, suprise shots, or the higher raw damage on engi.
As well as net shot, blunderbuss, and overcharged.
More damage, more control.
We can take another damage hit, and go alch instead of tools, and increase our utility and survival dramatically, as well.
There are lots of things to complain about.
This is not one of them. Our rifle builds are fine. turrets being messed up, is not fine. kit damage in general, is not fine. Flame thower especially. Pistols are not fine.
If we want to point at something in the war line, as stated, its the self might stacking that is really creating those 20k kill shot scenarios. Killshot getting piercing is a bit nuts of course as well.
What sort of blows my mind is that the Engineer community is so abused that they’re calling a quick string of 3k crits on a glass cannon spec with no diversity in its utilities “good burst damage.” This is not good burst damage. Then someone posts a very simple warrior video where a single button press greatly exceeds that burst to demonstrate how mediocre this burst actually is, and people complain about his lack of skill.
People need to realize what’s going on here. They need to disentangle their sense of investment in the class with the efficacy of the class. They probably need to play some other classes so they realize that very few classes are the “easy mode” that they’re so proudly claiming Engineer isn’t.
3k?
wrench is 6kx2, discharge is 2. One skill for 14k. Also, not a 3second cast.
7k+2k bleed blunderbuss. 12k leaps.
kick instead of googles is 3k kick, 2k discharge. (and CC break+blast combo on utility)
3-4k auto attack.
The rifle war has no CC, no mobility. its all +might utility skills. THAT is where its damage is coming from.
The rifle/discharge engi has higher scaling. if someone gave the engi 25 stacks of might, the engi would do way more damage then that war.
I mentioned that the grenade nerf made builds that were overshadowed by it move viable. And frankly, I have been running a discharge/rifle build myself since.
There are 2 options though. 30 tools vs 30 alch. Tools is more burst as seen here. but oh man are you so soft. The alch build gives 3000 hp, 409. Better buffs on H. protection, regen. Possibly elixir U for haste as well.
I mean, don’t get me wrong. killshot peircing is a bit odd.
The very high uptime on all those might stacks is a bit odd.
12% damage in a t1 trait is odd. Design choices I would not have made. and probably should be looked at.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Dec. 14 patch notes:
•Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE.So does that mean they increased PvP to PvE or decreased PvE to PvP?
Increased.
The early linked post, you see they stated they reduced the damage of g1, g2,g4 and barrage in spvp.
g1 was .5
g2 was .55
g4 was .5
that was changed to .45 for all in spvp., while pve stayed .5, .55, and .5.
The recent patch, buffed g2 and g5 back to .55 and .5 respectively.
While g1 was nerfed to .33.
As noted. .45 to .33 is 27% reduction.
While .5 to .33 is 34% reduction.
Was grenade barrage nerfed or just the “Grenade” skill in the grenade kit?
I copy and pasted the Nerf from Nov. 14. It was nerfed in PvP.
•Grenades •The projectile speed of all grenades has been increased by 10-15%.
•Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
•Shrapnel Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 15% in PvP only.
•Freeze Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
•Grenade Barrage: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only. It also now works correctly with the Explosives trait Grenadier while underwater.
That I can confirm. did not change. That note was false.
have you tried rocket boots instead of googles?
Force sigil should also be more damage then sigil of air as well.
I got really disenfranchised with my engi when I started leveling my mesmer as well.
The traits are so much better designed. so many options in builds.
Things are not perfect though. Mesmers can’t aoe carpet bomb like engineers. you might miss the massive aoe grenades put out.
Cleansing. you might miss 409.
It might be a bit funny starting now, you won’t feel the line of sight phanstasm nerf.
Oh man. feels like I am playing with my hands tied sometimes on the mesmer now.
THAT was a nerf. Oh, you want to hit that mortar on the wall? sorry , cant anymore.
I agree that Orr is over-the-top in monsters. However, like Anthony, I don’t think that’s the root problem. Unlike Anthony, I feel there’s a deeper problem: the respawn rate.
If I kill a zombie, I had to hack it into little pieces (judging by the number of swings it took), so there’s absolutely no way to rationalize that same monster standing right back up and fighting me again 10 seconds later.
I was in a place where I arguably over-aggroed (4 risen). But, that wouldn’ have been a huge problem without the 15 (that’s NOT an exaggeration) more coming back from the dead in the immediate area WHILE I WAS STILL FIGHTING. I had no choice but to run.
I’m sure the server considers them new entities, but what on earth justifies that kind of respawn rate?
Respawns should occur ONLY in one of three conditions:
- If there’s a reason in the story for it happening, and/or
- Another player enters the neighborhood (maybe within 2-3 aggro bubbles), and/or
- An event begins or becomes available.
Until one of those happens, clearing an area should CLEAR it, not merely make room for more spawns.
There was a skill point in straits, where I had that happen.
That one in the southwest? took me 25minutes. Killing veterans over and over and over. They kept respawning before I could channel the commune.
no, because I do not trust my old numbers. I don’t know.
I think its just peoples imagination, but I can not prove it.
I don’t see any reason to try to reverse engineer the damage coefficient based on the tooltip when I could just, you know, use the tooltip. If you think the tooltip is wrong then go ahead and prove that on your own time.
I’m gonna go ahead and say that you should pretty much never trust the tooltips in this game. I did in fact calculate the coefficients out for the majority of skills for 6 of the classes via smashing the heavy golem in the mists with steady weapons, and a good number of the tooltips are just flat out inaccurate in multiple ways, whether cooldown, damage dealt, or even number of hits done. Whenever I have access to my desktop again I’ll probably be putting it up, but in general I would say never trust the tooltip without actually testing it out first.
Also, under grenade kit, what is the “all” dps for, and what exactly did you use to calculate shrapnel dps?
It’s kind of weird how far out of line your predicted dps is compared to the analysis the other guy did. He did it as average damage overall a single grenade 1 + shrapnel would do over time via different builds and as compared to pre patch. I get that this also includes stuff like grenade 3, but still, in his analysis which was actually skewed towards condition builds, it actually had condition builds still being weaker than a crit damage build overall post patch. Maybe I’ll go over it again sometime, or just do an analysis myself.
If that was my analysis. it was pistols, pre-patch I did that math for. And I had made a mistake over valuing crit at first. Although the end result when fixed was the same, the margin was much much smaller. to the point of being pretty close. in a condition build anyway. Zerker annihilated it of course.
Your times are off. I suggest you go back and check them. I’m getting 22 attacks in 20 seconds for rifle and 20 attacks in 20 seconds for grenade. In other words, .91 sec/attack and 1 sec/attack, respectively. It may be a problem with your stopwatch not matching up exactly with the game’s animations, or something. The best way to test times is to use an instant cast skill and then watch the recharge on it while counting the number of attacks.
So yeah, your numbers are inflated because you’re assuming things come out faster than they actually do. That may be part of the problem. Your equipped weapon also doesn’t affect the kit tooltip so you may be operating under more misconceptions than that.
No, the best way is to fire a skill, wait for the next attack, then begin your stopwatch.
Basing it on the in game tooltip cd is terrible.
Kit tooltip… what?
Kit damage is 872-969 averaging 920.
I get 24 shots in 20 seconds.
That is .833.
You need to use a longer period to refine that value.
Of course you can’t tell the difference between 11.1, 11.4, 11.9 shots in 10 seconds.
My grenades prenerf were
.5*920*2700/2600=477 base.
573.8 with % traits.
920 with crit.
2763 per throw
x24% with vul=3426
Also, at .85 cast speed, for 4008 dps. grenade 1 alone. Which is why they were nerfed.
(in an hgh build mind you, again, tools is potentially higher, if someone else gives you the might)
And of course, most players and npcs do not have 2600 armor. 5000 or 6000 dps was more likely.
IF you are in the mists, with pvp pistol and 2004 power, it says 258. Which is actually correct.
Mind you, not all tooltips are accurate.
(edited by Casia.4281)
wrong math, wrong traits. take your pick.
Claiming hip shot only does 603 dps, while explosive shot does 323dps should have given you a hint something was wrong with his math.Me being wrong about anything?
Now THAT is the silliest thing I’ve heard all day.
Breaking down your math.
548 per hipshot. 603/s. This means you think its .91/s shot.
I time it at either .8 or .85.
548 and working backwards with .65 skill, and 1095 average weapon vs 2600.
you used 2005 or 2004 power. 2004 is of course zerker ammy, with runes of might or scholar in mists. although you mention divinity.
From there, you seemingly added no other damage buffs. crit damage, , 10 to rifle, 5% while bleeding, vul, scholar, str, 5% force.
Which is the main issue here. you can’t ignore something that increases your direct damage 65%. and ONLY your direct damage. That is the point. that is why direct damage outdamages conditions so much.
10% to rifle, 5% to bleeding, 5% force, 5% str, 4% (1% per boon) is +32.4% damage, then 25stacks of vul is another 25% (and again, scholar instead of strength, and 10% full end vs 4% boon is even more)
65.5% damage buff, that does not effect condition damage.
your 294 explosive shot.
.35*956*2004/2600=257.
.4=294
Explosive shot is .35, not .4. (it did used to be, your number is several months out of date?.)
Hip shot does in fact do more then twice as much damage then explosive shot direct.
Innately, and with the 10% damage buff, certainly.
(edited by Casia.4281)
they more then doubled the chance for the trait shrapnel to activate.
However, to suggest its more then direct damage is silly and flat out wrong.
Especially in a dungeon, where bleeds are capped at 25 from all sources.
And using shrapnel grenades, with shrapnel trait will nearly cap 25 bleeds all by yourself.So what runes/sigils/traits would you suggest with a dd build?
Well we have a few choices.
The math I showed was based on an HgH build. with runes of str. Which are +165 power, +20% might duration, and +5% damage with might up. this should give you 7-9 stacks of might perma, self buffed. more with allies. this is up all the time.
Runes of the scholar is 165 power, and 10% damage when hp is over 90%. more damage, if you can stay topped off. but you lose it, if you take pretty much any hit.
I think there is a fury version as well, which might be more ideal for the 30 tools builds, not hgh.
sigils. rifle vs pistol first.
Toolbelt skills scale off your main weapon. rifle hits 15% harder then pistols. barrage will hit 15% harder with rifle, then pistols, innately.
Rifle however, only has 1 sigil, pistols 2.
Either case, if you want to max damage, you will need to swap weapons.
1 bloodlust, or 10 prc per kill sigil to stack 250 power, or 250 prec. I did the math with 250 power, but you might have noted I stated, I think that build needs more crit.
30 explosives gives 300 power. might gives power and cond damage. zerker is power and crit damage heavy. has crit, but only 45% without fury. I feel that should be higher, and as such, crit food, or 250 prec is more ideal.
5% force is your main sigil. Using a rifle will give you much higher targeted damage, when not using grenades, for the highly mobile fights, as well as make your barrage hit much harder. while pistols will give 2 sigils. in that case. 5% force, and sigil of battle. while stacking the 250 prec or power buff.
Traits.
30 explosives. grenadier, explosive powder 10% damage, and empowering end. you dodge pretty often.
alch or tools. a real choice. tools if you are getting might from allies will be more dps.
10% damage full end especially, as well as +30% crit damage.
adrenal, kit, discharge
If alch, hgh, 409, 20% cooldown. lots of utility, obviously, less raw damage. more self reliant.
skills,
if hgh, elixir H, B, R, grenades. R is mostly for its raw utility. if you wish, C for more might stacking instead.
If tools, medikit, grenades, rocketboots or R, TK. (throw wrench is very high damage, and should be in your rotation in this case)