Guild Wars 2

In case anyone was wondering, neither flame thrower, or p1 buff is likely to be close to enough to make either useful over grenade 1, when CD skills are on CD.

2s bleed on p1, is 4s with 100%+ cond duration, and 6s with chem rounds and 10% CDur.
3s bleed on p1, is then 6s with 100%, and 9s with chem rounds. A large buff no doubt.
But, shrapnel is 15% per hit, 3 hits, 24s duration with 100% cond duration. This averages to 10.8s per throw.
Then of course grenades do significantly more direct damage, and add vul.

They don’t actually say the flamethrower buff amount, but unless its like 30% or more, again, stick with grenades.

Case could be made for p1 being slightly better now for solo world, and spvp use. Shorter duration, and more powerful without 100% cond duration. (aka not using 40% food)

Jerus.4350:

EGun is part of the power build though with it’s big hitter and utility. FT is our “loot stick” plus a few solid utility/damage skills that play a part in both builds.

Nade = primary kit
Bomb = utility/condi main/alternate primary kit
Toolkit = defensive/utility
EGun = power main/utility
Flamethrower = Power main/Condi main/utility kit.

They all have a use, all see regulary usage. The idea of flamethrower1 every having real power to me is a joke I don’t want to be a part of. EGun would need a LOT of work to become a primary condi kit but as it is there are still quality elements of it.

I don’t want to see drastic changes to our skills. I like how it is. I’d love to see something done to create more diversity but it’d need to be done without destroying the usage we already have with kits, otherwise I’d be pretty kittened. I think building up some of the other bomb skills could make bomb a solid alternative (higher dps) than grenade in power builds. You could boost EGun’s condi application elements to pull up in condi builds with nades (gain a nice stunbreak if you grab it).

It’s a delicate thing though, engi is in a pretty awesome place right now… unless you don’t like nades and rapid kit swapping. But, then I ask, why are you playing a PVE Engi? without those elements there are so many better options as I see it.

What are gadgets and turrets?
Engineers are and have been balanced around using grenades as your primary weapon, despite pistols, rifles and harpoongun seemingly having that purpose..
And using kits and the afore mentioned actual primary weapons for 1 or 2 specific skills out of the 5.
Pretty sure that is not what any of us actually signed up for.

Can you actually give any good reason for grenade barrage to be 40-200% better then every other toolbelt skill? even untraited.. nevermind vulx7 or shrapnelx7

EG is used for 1 skill exclusively. Acid bomb. That is engi balance. have all this stuff, you use for 1 single OP skill on your bar, and swap out of the otherwise useless kit.

Thaddeus.4891:

Casia.4281:

So, you end up spamming grenades like EVERY OTHER BUILD….. but it is max dps.

I see 12 skills in the rotation with only 4 being grenades, but if you say so.

so.. 30%? of the skills.
FT skills used 2. Inc ammo, napalm.
Bomb skills used 2. firebomb, conc bomb.
Pistol skills used 3. PDV, static, blowtorch
Grenade skills used 5. barrage, sharpnel, grenade, freeze grenade, poison grenade.
so thats 42% of total skills.

actual cast.
59 skills cast.
34 of them grenade skills 58% of the skills uses are grenade skills.
Grenade 1 18 times. 30%.

ANET you have a serious problem with grenades being the best weapon in all situations.

When grenades are the best condition AND the best direct damage weapon for 3 years after multiple balance patches. What are you doing?

yeah. still not sold 100% on the math.. But overall, I would endorse that new guide.

sinister, bursting, nightmare runesx5. +1 other, a gem.
If you can maintain it, the +250 cond damage rune is probably more then bursting.

The main issue is dungeon pve, vs world pve. Nightmare rune setup is for dungeon pve. it maximizes +duration when using expensive food and oil.
you should however consider, you wont be running around with 10% duration oil, and 40% duration food, all the time.

My guide/spreedsheets were done for using p/p, flamethrower, flameturret, and bomb. Mortar was also tested.
I found, p1 and ft1 dps to be far too mediocre. a serious problem. the DNT build gets around that with grenade spam, and dropping flameturret. turrets burns are great. But, yeah in the damage from raw grenades, makes up for it I suppose. Didnt math it out, but I would trust that choice. p1 and ft1 came out totally pathetic. it would be hard not to beat.

So, you end up spamming grenades like EVERY OTHER BUILD….. but it is max dps.

Adamantium.3682:

Casia.4281:

numbers were in a pve situation with 25stacks of might, then “vul” was 25 stacks".
Yeah, a bit disappointed at that.
Serious problem with cond builds. They die out. Some strong Cooldowns, huge early boost.
That initial combo I have there, KILLS things fast. IA, napalm, flameblast(optional), throw napalm, blowtorch, static, airblast, firebomb, concbomb. That was 15 stacks of burning in like 7seconds. With all 6 IA, probably more like 20 stacks. But.. then you run out.
Need better options for sustain. PDV is ok. Mortar 1 in firefields is pretty good. (will be very good, with explosives working.) that frag shot downtime you see is awful though. Thought flamejet might preform better. but doing the math. sadly, not much. yes it will proc sharpshooter more as well. Probably only like another 50dps though. Sharpshooter is not THAT big of a deal.

Been trying to figure out if Elixir gun should be swapped in for flame turret, or even flamethower. But again, baddies say cond needs to “ramp up.” They are wrong and don’t understand both how cond work or the skills that apply them. its actually sustain and mobility they are bad at.

in totally going back to Path of exile, so might not check back in… but if you can explain some of his numbers in the spreadsheet screenshot he provided please do..
he claimed “high armor” 2600 was assumed, and what I used for may calcs.
Still don’t see how his burns were doing over 2x the damage they should have for his 920 cond damage in his zerker 17k dps build. his grenade barrage has a 2295 burn tick at the 1s mark. only incendary ammo for burns, no powder. how is 920 cond IA dealing 2295 burn damage with 3 stacks? how is Incendiary ammo ALSO dealing 8651 damage?
His kit damage seems wrong, and total damage values all around far far too high.
I didnt check all his numbers but barrage should have been like 22-26k or something too, not 32k.

This is why I’d like to get my hands on that file, but that’s not likely going to happen. I don’t have the time or energy to build one myself. I agree with you that the numbers are high, but all that really matters are the numbers relative to other Engi builds. If he says one build does a million damage and another does 2 million damage well even if his numbers are wrong as long as he is consistent one is twice as good as the other. I have no way of knowing that without that spreadsheet for myself though.

Bah. had this responce, and deleted it..

Try to quickly..
damage values I believe are off a bit. Had to make some more notes.
1. was based off his faulty stats. 1960p/prec, 1557 cond. Major is 1381 isn’kitten minor 961.
This gives more cond then one should have. Thus favoring cond skills. his 17k dps zerk also has that extra 176 power too…
2. Chem rounds is a HUGE buff to pistol. the 2s base bleed, is 4s with 100% duration cap. Chem rounds breaks the cap and multiplies into it. +50% of the 4s bleed. giving a 6s bleed, or 200% condition duration.
so, chem rounds being great, and no comparable for flamejet atm… Then the stats having extra cond favors fragshot.

Flame jet will favor sinister over rabid due to its good power coeff scaling, and its weak condition duration. 2s on a 2.57skill..
Also, I made a mistake on flamejet. I forgot to add in exessive energy, shaped charge, and glass cannon, which the frag shot values had. 1.21multiplier.

Flame jet would be 967 wpnstr, .225 coef, 10 hits per 2.57s.
241/hit vs 2600 amor, 351 with crit, no vul. x10 for 3511 over 2.57s. x1.21 mods=4249
1653direct dps. x1.1 burnin bonus1818
1005 burning dps.
2824 combined, 3529dps with vul.

numbers were in a pve situation with 25stacks of might, then “vul” was 25 stacks".
Yeah, a bit disappointed at that.
Serious problem with cond builds. They die out. Some strong Cooldowns, huge early boost.
That initial combo I have there, KILLS things fast. IA, napalm, flameblast(optional), throw napalm, blowtorch, static, airblast, firebomb, concbomb. That was 15 stacks of burning in like 7seconds. With all 6 IA, probably more like 20 stacks. But.. then you run out.
Need better options for sustain. PDV is ok. Mortar 1 in firefields is pretty good. (will be very good, with explosives working.) that frag shot downtime you see is awful though. Thought flamejet might preform better. but doing the math. sadly, not much. yes it will proc sharpshooter more as well. Probably only like another 50dps though. Sharpshooter is not THAT big of a deal.

Been trying to figure out if Elixir gun should be swapped in for flame turret, or even flamethower. But again, baddies say cond needs to “ramp up.” They are wrong and don’t understand both how cond work or the skills that apply them. its actually sustain and mobility they are bad at.

in totally going back to Path of exile, so might not check back in… but if you can explain some of his numbers in the spreadsheet screenshot he provided please do..
he claimed “high armor” 2600 was assumed, and what I used for may calcs.
Still don’t see how his burns were doing over 2x the damage they should have for his 920 cond damage in his zerker 17k dps build. his grenade barrage has a 2295 burn tick at the 1s mark. only incendary ammo for burns, no powder. how is 920 cond IA dealing 2295 burn damage with 3 stacks? how is Incendiary ammo ALSO dealing 8651 damage?
His kit damage seems wrong, and total damage values all around far far too high.
I didnt check all his numbers but barrage should have been like 22-26k or something too, not 32k.

Adamantium.3682:

Has someone made a FT build that can get within ~10% or so of the DnT PvE build for damage?

I don’t trust his numbers. they make no sense.

This was my write up on sinister.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Sinister-Pve-p-p-ft-fturret-bomb-mortar/first#post5240992

A few changes since, I have not written up. One being the IA fix.
Other being Flamejet as the replacement for fragshot.

IA is not much..
11636 over 42s CD was math before, double 223,272 over 42s.
554dps.

Throw napalm for example is 9051 burning, 1312 direct average 21s cd.
493 dps. But also AOE and a fire field.

Frag shot was 1000 wpnstr, .35 coef, vs 2600 armor
dealing av 683 damage with 1329.7 bleed per shot, .75s/a. with crit including, 25stacks of vul not.
683 direct dps.
1769ish bleed dps.
2452 combined, 3065 with vul.

Flame jet would be 967 wpnstr, .225 coef, 10 hits per 2.57s.
241/hit vs 2600 amor, 351 with crit, no vul. x10 for 3511 over 2.57s.
1366 direct dps. x1.1 burnin bonus1503
1005 burning dps.
2508 combined, 3135 with vul.

Huh, just doing the math on that. Flamejet looked much better on paper… dang. Its just “Barely”. would have more sharpshooter procs though.
Its burn is pathetic.

Even with double the stacks its not very good.

I mean, you say that… but its still half the damage of one grenade barrage, single target vs barrage’s aoe, and double the cooldown..

Ricky Rouse.1583:

ellesee.8297:

I suppose another solution would be to keep the explosives as the Engineer’s power oriented kits and beef up the firearm kits to be viable condition weapons, although this route would require some serious overhauls on Anet’s part which, sadly, will probably never happen! For example the Bomb Kit would need some adjustments as it’s just awful in a power build! Traited Elixir Gun could maybe burn with its Acid Bomb and apply Torment with Elixir F! The Flamethrower is completely power oriented (and a terrible one at that) aside from its gimmicky burn toolbelt! You could change it so it applies more burning on the auto attack and its other skills! Again this route would require a lot of overhauls to the kits and Anet isn’t one for overhauls in a reasonable time frame!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

While I agree Explosives is pretty lackluster at the moment, almost every other kit is strong as hell right now.

First off, you’re insane if you think flamethrower should be a condition weapon.

You explicitly GIVE UP Napalm Specialist to spec into Juggernaut. And if you are using the FT without Juggeranut you’re not using it correctly as any other kit will fit your condition needs better. Elixir gun in combination with mortar is also very good if run a regeneration rabid build with focus on bleed/poison, it doesn’t need some unwarranted buffs to condition damage (Torment on elixir F? What?).

Often this talk doesn’t clarify wvw, pve, or spvp..
Pve
FT is good without juggernaut. Might is really easy to come by these days.
Naplam is a 10s fire field. strong burning by itself, esp on a stationary target. But also, providing a TON of procs from mortar 1, or blast combos.
Airblast extends all sources of burning on a target. (yours at least, dunno multiplayer interaction) But a cond engi can be running 14-20 stacks of burning at a given time.
In sinister gear, fireblast is.. ok. not great, not horrible. Better then most autoattacks.
I never did mathout how well flamejet preforms…

2s burn on a 2.5s attack. 10 hits, 4hits/s.. 2.25coef , .225 each, .9coef/s with .8s of burning.
hrm. just reading that, thats better then frag shot. esp with added sharpshooter procs.
10% extra vs burning and 98% burning duration.. .99coef/s, and 1.58s of burning/second.

Mortar 1 through a firefield is .8 every .8s with 1s of burning. or 1coef/s with 1.25s of burning. (10% explosives is super inconsistant, 2.475s burning/s)

Incendiary ammo is still mediocre, even fixed. CD is just way too high.

Swapping flamejet in for frag shot, and with IA fixed, the 11000dps estimate should go up to like 12000+ for my pve cond build.

But should note, do also agree explosives teir 1 sucks.

FT in pvp. the firefields are much less useful give line and size. the airblast knockback/reflect is great however. Targeting of flamejet makes it near useless as a skill.

Dahkeus.8243:

Meh, I don’t see any need for a range change. There’s no need to automata I from range since your DPS is crud without blunderbuss or jump shot anyways. If you want to hit something from range, use the Mortar Kit for a higher Dps attack that also gives AOE.

The +range also effects blunderbuss, overcharged shot and jumpshot.

its actually a very big deal.

grenade barrage .5 per.
Shrapnel grenade .55 per.

there was then issues with toolbelt skills using equipped weapon weapon str.
Such a rifles 1150 weapon str vs 1000 pistol, vs 967 kit.
I think this was normalized as some point, but may be back in effect.

Traits, aim assisted rocket, bunkerdown, and takedown round definitely DO use equipped weapon. so, will deal WAY more damage with rifle equipped then kits.

Streamlined kits, first, probably then does use kit damage, since you had to swap to it to activate it.
However, streamlined kits does not use grenade barrage for grenade kit.
it uses Drop mine.
No idea what its coeff is. Throw Mine is .82 Drop mine field is .7
(probably should have mentioned that first..)

TheGuy.3568:

Is there a point in complaining anymore? they get around to it when they get around to it. It has been weeks since we got the new system. I think they know what’s wrong but, our priorities and theirs probably aren’t aligning.

Hard to judge. the QA here is awful. forum modding is mediocre.

It took us over a month to get the “meet the Asura” challenge mote fixed.
Pretty sure it took a good month for the team to even know there was an actual problem, spamming the thread daily. A forum mod merging the thread with a 9month old bug that was never fixed, and UNRELATED.

Assuming the bug thread is even read or understood is a giant assumption. If you want things fixed. be loud and persistent.

GRENADE kit seems like an afterthought?

What? Is this a joke post? I am so confused right now.

Notes rarely are complete.
Test it in game first. you never know…

Ps. I am probably not going to be helpful with this, or any other testing. Taking another break. wasn’t super happy with the bugs, playtesting, etc. state of the game is pretty meh to me atm. And terraria 1.3 just came out. and
July 10th, Path of Exile Act4.

Taku.6352:

It drops a mine like bomb on thee ground where the target was at the time and explodes after few seconds. Just tested with a moving dummy.

ah lame. Especially when the mechanic for attaching the charge to the target is IN THE GAME, as Mork pointed out.

Should we /bug it?

p.s.s. I did not test this, but the tooltip for takedown round says it attaches the bomb to the target. it does NOT drop a bomb at their feet they can just run away from, like bunker down.

now, with that in mind… add knockback to it. it would be amazing to troll with on downed players. trying to res a friend? oops, you had takedown round on you. kaboom

While his numbers might be off a bit, sins and insane’s overall points are correct.

Aim assisted is 1 powercoeff per 10 seconds. +vul, +procs of all kinds. and, 1.1 powercoeff effectively vs any skill that doesnt get explosive powder. (the rest all should also get.)

grenade 1 is a 1 coeff, and 1 second attack. Thus 10 attacks in 10s, each getting .05coeff, from shaped charge. a total of .5 coeff. Spamming grenade 1 would be a dps loss with shaped charge. As stated, you need an AVERAGE coeff per second over 2 to get more dps out of the 5%.
Grenade barrage is .5×7/21seconds, and thus .167coeff/s. you are up to 1.167coef/s!

Honestly, it may not even be possible… And certainly.. 9/10 times aim assisted is more dps. And even if you do pull it off, anything that does have that high of a coeff will have a cooldown. making aim assisted more dps over time.

My testing confirms, 2s fuse on takedown round, not 1.
(short fuse trait does not effect this, if curious.)

I come up with a 1 power coeff, for takedown round.

1667 power, asc p/p(1000wpnstr). 729-820 on silverwaste dummies. (2140armor) no damage traits. =.99coef

1745 power, asc rifle(1150wpnstr). 865-1023 on dummies. no damage traits.
1.007coeff.

Pretty confident the coeff is 1.

It is an explosive, and does gain explosive traits appropriately.

Its damage is based on the weapon that fired the shot. if you shoot target with the rifle, then immediately swap to lets say toolkit, it will deal the damage of the “long-fused powder pack” with the 1150 weaponstrength of the rifle, NOT the 967 weapon str of the toolkit. A near 20% difference. do not forget this. Always try to apply it with rifle, not a kit or pistol. as it will be much weaker with them.

Aim assisted.
1745p. asc rifle 1150wpn str. 932-1066 vs 2140 armor. 1.065 coeff, with explosive powder presumably tied in. a .968 when divided by 1.1.
Ugly numbers. not trustworthy. need more.

Also weird. the tooltips. Aim assisted reads 851. Long-fused(takedown round) reads 465.
tooltips LIE… but thats usually weird. how much are they supposed to be doing?

AA pistol
1669 p, 1000 pistol, 823-911, vs 2140 arm. 1.1111 coef with explosive power.
1 without.
these make more sense.

I did throw out an outlier 1123 AA rifle top value, which I was not sure I didnt accidentally let excessive energy effect. if that 1123 was accurate, then that would shift the range to 932-1132, and give 1.1005 with explosive powder, and thus 1 coeff without.

suggesting Aim assisted power coeff is also 1.

so don’t take it in spvp if you think its not worth it?
its 156 cond damage with a celestial ammy. 27.8% increase from your 560. thats pretty big..

ITs value with a rabid or when you consider other sources of cond damage is more of an issue.
rabid ammy is 900 prec, 1200 cond.
so its 190 condition damage into your 1200 thats 15.8%.

25 stacks of might is 750 power/condition damage. Which also puts in into perspective.

that and duration. 40% food is a serious balance issue in pve. and it reflects on spvp as well.
40% food should be removed, and cond damage rebalanced accordingly.

Sigil of bursting is far weaker for conditions then sigil of force or its comparative 10% sigils as well.
Sigil of bursting gives 6% condition damage, but this is ONLY applied to armor, corruption, and runes. So its essentially a flat value.
Balth+celestial? 44.1cond damage. period. doesnt matter if you have pinpoint disc, 25 stacks of might, warrior banner, etc..
Compared to sigil of force 5% which multiplies into all sources of direct damage. A true 5% damage increase.

Which the changes to cond and vul, that is one thing I really want to see atm. Bursting made to actually scale cond damage by 6%.
its 4.9% of that 891 of that celestial/balth/pinpoint.
in pve, you are looking at more like 110 out of 3300 cond damage from buffs, food, etc.
more like 3.3%.

for ref, pinpoint dist is like 198 condition damage in ascended sinister with balth or nightmare runes. An actual 6% of 3300 pve condition damage.

Medicarejunkie.6032:

Thematically, AA Rocket is awesome. The only thing standing in its way is the trait Shaped Charge, which is basically a free 5% damage modifier. The damage numbers from the AA rocket look good, but I doubt it increases your overall damage an extra 5%.

which make sense. the pve trait should do more damage in pve.
While the pvp trait provides more burst. And even extra vul, sharpshooter procs, etc.

Aim-assisted tracking stealth seems like a bug… does SD do that?

Takedown round I don’t get.
Theives get: 4s fury when they strike a foe below 90% health. And 10% crit damage buff, when they strike a foe above 50%…. Then, 2s of fury when they crit with fury active, AND +250 ferocity. then even can take the 10% damage vs foes below 50%…

and we get takedown round on a 10s cd.
What even is its point?

I would change how it works.
Remove the 50% hp threshold.
Remove the 1s delay.
Health threshold is a mechanic. so why can’t it work the other way?
5s internal CD. applys a charge on target. stacks up to 2 charges.
“when a foe’s hp is reduced to 25%, charges activate.”

WhiteGlint.4897:

Can you post your idea for Cele SD build?

I would probably defer to someone actively playing SD rifle since patch, since I’ve been primarily giving p/p a shot. There have been a few sound posts, about sd rifle since patch.

But, something like this I think I would try.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgEDuALsBWQ~

Typically, I would use toolkit, rifle, ram, supply drop.
2 in expl for accel packed turrets kb.
4 firearms, 20% CD, rifle mod.
(sitting duck, mod ammo, rifled.. all good. (we did have too many needed traits for rifle 3 slots, 6 traits…)
2 in alch for invigoring
6 in tools. speedy kits, sd, power wrench.

build was screwed pretty badly really.
I made heavy use of the CC and toolkit shields for survival. And did have a big weakness to being CC’d and conditions myself.
3 spec also forces me to go only 3 lines.

But I could knock people off points all day. Cap while fighting with ease.
Down someone on a point? knock them off. ignore them while they bleed out..

As I noted, big hit with the loss of rifle mod, and power wrench. 10% off the damage of blunderbuss and leap. ouch. 10% off prybar, and 20% off the cooldowns on prybar, shield, and magnet.. not cool at all.

I only wanted explosives for accel packed turrets, and alch for vigor.. Vigor was nerfed so thats good easy enough.
But also have little use for deep explosives.

The whole thing needs to be re-evaluated.
first, Inventions looks way more solid for SD rifle then explosives. All around maybe even. my p/p might swap too. Mecha legs should help reduce the need for streamlined kits. CC reduc, as well. Letting us grab Lock-on in tools. the cleanse on heal is fantastic too.

Bunker down was a bit meh in the past I feel. Big damage when it hit. very unreliable. The addition of the med pack goes a long way.
Alternatively, advanced turrets might be great too. reflects are always strong in pvp. This is not a skill I have any experience with. but I would often run Elixir U for the reflect wall alone..

Kinetic charge and adrenal are both great. take either.

What to bring? hard to say.. healing turret probably again. the cleanse. weaker heal. so not as good for AMR.
TK? always the staple. good toolbar skill.. prybar was always strong. good defense.. but did take that damage and cd nerf..
Rifle turret. as always.
Ram. probably ditch it now.

Elixir U was buffed. giving 6s of quickness, and 6s of 5 stacks of might, or 6s of fury. along with the stunbreak.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_U
Toolbelt skill is not targeted however. making it weak for SD.
Elixir gun? Fumigate was buffed with cond changes. Acid bomb was always strong.
Toolbelt skill is a stunbreak, but also not targeted. weak for SD.

Supply drop still probably for elite. I like Mortar, but the stun, and sustained damage of the drop is good. Extra healing now too.

All this results in a huge increase in survival… but much less burst. This was my fear on seeing the changes to skills, I wondered if SD cele rifle would have enough damage to actually kill anyone.. all this traited and slotted healing/survival. Maybe we should just go zerker with it?

ps. Gear shield/magnet in toolkit don’t count as “shields” for overshield trait. which is some garbage.. wonder if I should /bug that…

I’ve been running rabid in spvp.

I would not categorize it as super effective. I either burst my target down with alot of heavy cond quickly, or I get bursted down quickly. Very much all or nothing. no close fights.
If I am not being attacked, I wreck face though.
Not remotely as well rounded as the SD build I was running prepatch.

Cond inherently favors a balanced defense. steady pressure of condition damage over that burst.

Phineas Poe.3018:

What really makes all of this integral is the fact that both Explosive Shot and Tranquilizer Dart stack bleeding. Tranquilizer Dart’s bleed stack lasts 5 seconds, giving you plenty of time to root someone into an Acid Bomb and go to town. This will become substantially easier (and stronger) after Glue Bomb gets its 300 radius back.

It’s funny because for so long I tried to keep Elixir S into my build because I thought that it would help me out, but Tranquilizer Dart—literally the worst kit auto attack we have—is the hinging ability that keeps this unorthodox spec duct taped together. And I’ve found that I don’t really need it for survivability because Carrion + Firearms applies so much direct damage pressure so long as you maintain bleeds on your target and stroll in at the right time for a targeted spike.

EG was always underrated. I was using acid bomb in wvw, and pve LOOONG before anyone else noticed it did so much damage, if the target was stuck in place.
EG1 itself, as you note, totally outclasses frag shot.
Always did. EG was effectively a rifle variant. 1200 range.. the bleed was longer then frag shot, the debuffs, etc.
Always hated fumigate, but now with the cond buff. it might not be too bad..

was thinking about this for the pve dps build. FTurret is used almost entirely for throw napalm, on a 21s cd. FT for napalm, on 30s cd, and airblast. IA is weak. the rest not useable.
EG might be a better choice in one of those slots. Provides the best cond based autoattack.

Adamantium.3682:

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Grenadier only increase flight speed of grenades and not actual casting speed? This would not result in any damage increase as you’re still throwing the same amount of grenades in a set amount of time.

I spent like 20 pages trying to explain mortar with a .8s attack speed and .8 coeff, is the exact same dps as 1s attack speed and 1 coeff on grenades.
They still didn’t understand this.

Don’t expect them to understand a projectile speed nerf.

It would be better if people spazzed out less about “the best”. And just worried more about checkpoints of acceptable benchmarks.

Like, lets say the “best” is 13k dps in a party.
Anything over 11k should be acceptable.
if your build is only putting out 7k dps though, thats a problem.

coated bullets being put into mod ammo would screw with incendiary ammo. and pistol offhand really needs incendiary ammo.
Of course you could already make the complaint of mod ammo and incendiary ammo competing with each other.

coated bullets probably wouldn’t help. As nice of a trait as it was.
The .350 coeff on pistol 1 is just too low. It’d help Poison dart volley though.

Even making p1 an explosive would not make p1 viable really.. but certainly much better.
It’d be 10% to that god awful .350 coeff, with explosive traits. it would then also allow schrapnel to proc. Decent for the cripple proc indeed. possibly too easy. The bleed on proc is meh at best.

Bleeds are underpowered in the wake of power buffs, as well as every other condition made stackable.

blowtorch is very powerful now. Static shot is about the same. PDV is pretty strong, but could use the pierce to be aoe.
p1 is awful still, almost single handledly killing pistols as a viable weapon atm. As you can load up on everything else, but eventually run out of cooldowns, and must use a #1 skill… and have no viable condition based #1 skill options.

The BEST condition based #1 is actually MORTAR 1 through a fire field… thats pretty sad.

Hey thought I would try and put together a condition engineer chart, and rotation.
Feel like there is alot of bad info out there.
I see people saying “condition damage needs to ramp up” which makes no sense at all, without conditions “rolling”.
I see people complaining about mortar. Which.. has problems. but also can be pretty strong..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bi69t/dnt_updated_build_guides_for_all_8_professions/
DNT posted their “updated builds”. and, largely ignored cond. alot of people asked about it, so I wanted to provide some context.
Brazil posted these followups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bi69t/dnt_updated_build_guides_for_all_8_professions/csni7oe

I initially used his figures to do my basis. however, I do wonder about those base figures now.
http://i.imgur.com/NBV0vs0.png
http://i.imgur.com/Q0DLHfT.png
I used 1960p/1960prec/1557 cond without questioning it at first.
Save, I noted there was no sinister back, so I swapped the 23 for a rampagers back.
But, main stat is 1381, minor961.
I do not know where that extra 176 power or cond is coming from in his charts. If someone can ID it. please tell me. Note, rune power/cond is clearly added later in S1+R.
Some of his charges have an extra 150p in buffs, which I asked and he said was from emp warrior. no idea what this buff is not in all calculations for constancy.
My testing puts ascended weapon kits at 967 average damage, not 1000. if you think I am wrong, you can add 3.4% to my direct damage totals, to estimate 1000 weapon damage.
I do also have to note, his numbers seem massively inflated at times. I for example, can’t place why he has incendiary ammo dealing 8651 damage. or why his 920 condition damage burn is dealing 2295 at 3 stacks. or why his grenade barrage is doing 6-10k more then it figure it should, with the numbers he provided.

http://i.imgur.com/loIjdJQ.jpg

In order to get a better understanding of maxing rotation, I calculated damage based on skill use. this is important, as maxing dps, is about maxing out your damage per cast time.
I add vul in after dps totals. His chart adds in vul before. do consider that when looking at any damage per skill use.
static shot I counted for 1 hit. mortar is applying vul, but not getting 10% damage buff.
vs2600 armor
Ignored confuse retaliation. just calced confuse dot.

estimated 9976dps
(ps forgot to add incendiary powder… add 518dps. 80%uptime, of 653/tick)

what I learned. (or already knew.)
M1 when procing burning in a cond build is pretty good. 1889 direct, 1616 at .8s/a. 4381dps.
Frag shot is not good enough even fully traited out for it, and conditions. major dps loss when resorting to it. Bomb would have been more dps, and it provides no real synergy.

Very high dps 1-10s, lul in dps till 15s. burst again to 20s. Massive dropoff till 30s when everything comes back up again.
Change in rotation needed. possibly changing firefield orders, delaying firebomb to get m1 procs.
or even just bombs instead of frag shot..
Possible increases, dodge roll? drop turrets and blow them up.(very likely there.)
Drop flameblast? reconsider flame jet?(totally ignored it)

See any errors, let me know.

I was running SD cele rifle for the longest time in both pvp and pve.

I would run turret, toolkit, rifle turret, ram, supply drop.
Cele gave decent burst. and some survival. sd stun, and ram 2 high damage moves+ a knockback.

SD rifle gained power in the shift to stats on gear. but lost a bit of ferocity.
And then we lost power wrench and rifle mod. ouch.
Prybar core in pve and pvp, and the shields in pvp.

Pvp. mod ammo is meh. Dont think incd ammo much better…
Aim assisted rocket is a nice random boost, and the explode on turrets.. but, thats it really in the tree. wonder if sd rifle should ditch explosives altogether.

Id go kinectic charge in pvp for sure.

spvp instead of explosives.. consider. inventions.
overshield, mechalegs, and bunker down. (or advanced turrets for reflect)

Pve
Sinister exotic armor, zerker back(there is no sinister back)
sinister ascended accessories.
Sinister ascended pistols.
Balth runes, blasting/corruption sigil. (nightmare runes are better for dungeons, with 40% food/10% oil/focus.)

If I was playing a direct damage build, pure zerker would be the ideal. 20-40% “free” crit from traits/fury really makes assassins weaker.

Spvp. Rabid.
Balth runes, forget which runes.. doom I think..

Phineas Poe.3018:

I talk to Brazil on a regular basis. His work is solid. No one puts up better speed clear builds than DnT does, anyway.

ok. Maybe you can help me.
this is the zerker spreadsheet for this “17,595” dps.
http://i.imgur.com/Q0DLHfT.png

he has base stats of 2557p, 1960 prec, 1060fero.

base stats are 1000 base.
1381 major, 961 minor stat on full ascended gear.
+175p, 100 ferocity scholar runes. Adding those to base attributes is very confusing.

2556p, 1961prec,1061fero
+920power, 170 prec/fero, 920 cond from might/banners.

3476p, 2131prec, 1231 fero, 920 cond
vs. his listed
3547p, 2550prec, 1230fero, 920 cond. 71 extra power unlisted, 419 precision unlisted.
13 power infusions would be 65 power. so not it.
Not saying is entirely wrong… just can’t make accurate dps comparisons if there are hidden buffs he is not disclosing.

Looking at his timetable.
Right off the bat.
Incendiary ammo. 8651 damage.
what? how is IA dealing 8.6k direct damage? Is it static discharge being listed poorly?
Lets see..
.350 coeff. 967 weapon damage. use the listed 3547 power. He told me uses “heavy armor” so 2600.
462 base hit. x1.695 for mods=782.6 x1.10% mod ammo=861.
2550 prec is 77.8% crit, with +20%% for HF and HC. 97.8% crit 231% damage crits
2.26 damage mod for crits.
861×2.26=1946×1.25 vul 2432 damage.
So no, its not static discharge.

Next up. Grenade barrage. note the burn starts ticking at 2295.
(0.155 * Condition Damage) + 131.5 damage per stack per second at Level 80
920cond d listed. 274/stack.
Barrage does apply all 3 stacks of incendiary ammo immediately.
3 stacks of burning x 274= 822×1.25 vul 1028 burning. where is that extra 1267 burning coming from? He does not have incendiary powder.
GB itself.
.5 coeff. 6 grenades. 967 weapon damage. 2600 armor. 25 vul
22,513 damage, not 32512. exactly 10k extra. (I see 7 vul, so he is counting 7 nades, 26,265damage then.)
326 bleed. one stack of bleed at 920 cond is 77.2 damage. 96.5 vul
6 crits .33% sharpshooter. 2 bleeds. 6 explosions. 15% shrapnel. 1 bleed.
3 bleeds at 96.5=289.5 (pretty close.. but still off..)

Napalm… again lists 7930 damage..
Napalm has like a .08 coeff per tick, for 10s.
So maybe 6613 over 10s.
Napalm then should add 1 extra stack of burning per second. But then his chart goes from 2295 to 3534. Again 1 stack of his burning with 25 vul should be 342.5, not 1239.

Phineas Poe.3018:

For PvE, Brazil from [DnT] already put up the DPS dungeon build. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-k-BLJiBbA&feature=youtu.be

It’s very thorough. He goes over the damage rotation and everything.

Don’t use conditions in PvE.

Def good rotation. I just did up a pve condition rotation.
Strong burst, dps trails off 20s-30s, then spikes again.
overall, the dps numbers I came up with are a good deal lower then his claims. 10-11kdps for a cond build vs 2600 armor.

however, I also can not reconcile HIS dps numbers. more then a few things seem to make no sense to me, and hes not being cooperative in explaining his numbers.

People say cond falls behind because of “ramp up”. these people are dumb, and have no idea what they are talking about.

Cond falls behind because of % modifiers. 10% Scholar, 10%night, 10% racial, 5% shaped charge, 10% explosion, 10% ex energy, 8-12% mod ammo, 5% force, 5% glass cannon.
69.5% damage modifier for all direct, 86.4% for explosions. then mod ammo8-12% on top of that.

Bursting’s 6% does NOT apply to total damage. it only applies to base, armor, and corruption. food, might, other buffs, pinpoint dist, etc do not get the 6% buff.

Annette Lion-carver.

if you want to buff bomb and ft. buff bomb and ft. not traits like this which will only benefit spamming grenades in melee MORE, then even bomb or FT.

nades have a 900 range now… if you add a long range trait that exceeds nade range. such as 1000. it would then only benefit rifle, eg and mortar.

Phineas Poe.3018:

That trait synergizes amazingly well with Bomb Kit, Flamethrower, Rifle, and Tool Kit. Sorry, but I disagree. It makes Flame Jet nearly always crit with Fury, making it actually not awful anymore in PvP/WvW.

What you want is something that benefits only the Grenade Kit, and you really don’t want to go up Firearms with a Grenade Kit build.

nah. its more the opposite. grenades a e melee weapons. arguably so is rifle… And 99% of engineers other weapons.

Scope was underpowered. but, it empowered the opposite of normal play. playing at long range.
Which.. actually is a great idea. Scope should have been buffed.

10% crit and 75% crit DAMAGE at 1200+ range.
Suddenly now you are rewarded for not spamming grenades in melee range. you have risk/reward for using them at max range, and hoping the spread and slow proj doesnt make you miss.
Same with rifle. you get this big damage buff, but loose out on blunderbuss/leapshot dps, and overcharged shot CC.

No scope and high calibur are stupid traits which give lots of crit to melee builds which don’t even need it.

Are.1326:

Casia.4281:

Balanced around grenades… like everything else…

But, yes. give it a .5 second ICD, and shorten the bleed to 2 6s bleeds. Much more effective all around. Now it works with EVERY engineer weapon, not just grenades.

An internal cooldown would not work well with explotions AoE function.
I say: make it only proc on the primary grenade (the one that goes where you target). Then set the proc chance up. Now it works with SOME engineer weapons, not just grenade barrage.

yeah, good point I suppose.

the only real answer I guess is changing how ICD or on hit works. It does need to be aoe, but also must be limited to once per attack.

I wonder if they can just make two traits in one? They merged all those others.

Have sharpshooter work as is, for GRENADES. But have it give 2 or 3 stacks of bleeds for everything else?

(steel packed powder same deal…)
If juggernaut can be FT only, why can’t these traits have special conditions for grenades?

Balanced around grenades… like everything else…

But, yes. give it a .5 second ICD, and shorten the bleed to 2 6s bleeds. Much more effective all around. Now it works with EVERY engineer weapon, not just grenades.

Xyonon.3987:

Mokitteneals no condition damage. The poison dmg is laughtable so go for sharpnel and use actual condi weapons – pistol, bomb, nades etc

1s burning on proj finisher. Every .8s.
100% duration. for 2s burn.
In a heavy cond build, using standard dps calc max..
653 burning/s. you get 1306burning per shot. x vul-1632
.8 coeff, 967 weapon. x 2880 power. 857 av vs 2600 armor, 1250ish with crit. 1553ish with 25 vul.

total:
1553dd+1632 burning over 2s per attack.
+1 stack vul, +schrapnel proc possibly.
3981 dps of action.
It may or may not get the 10% explosion damage..

Frag shot.
.35 coef, 1000 weapon, x2880power. 388 av vs 2600 armor, 562ish with crit, 587 with 25 vul.
6s bleed.
1343 × 1.25vul. 1679

total:
587dd+1670bleed over 6s.
3002 dps of action.

Mortar 1 with a Firefield, is the clear winner in a condition build. poison/confuse would be closer, with frag shot likely winning in damage, but the vul/shrapnel might give it back to mortar1.
“dps of action” is a value of damage which will occur for 1second of cast time.

you didnt specify pve, spvp, or wvw.

will need that for advice on seige rounds vs schrapnel vs blast on dodge.
Although truthfully, I don’t have a solid answer for any yet..

Seige rounds makes orbital strike fun as hell. main purpose is the double blast combo. the extra duration on fields is meh, as the mortar fields themselves are meh.

The shrapnel cripple is good in wvw. condi explosions are not frequent enough to really justify too much esp if you are not running bombkit.

Blast on dodge should not be ignored.. with firefields, etc.

My pve is ft, flameturret, bombkit. mortar.
Spvp is ft, flameturret, elixir U, mortar.

Mirror blade can bounce of you, since it gives buffs to allies. others, such as rangers richochet, engi static shot, thief trick shot, can only bounce off enemies since they are purely offensive.

Engi elixir F bounces off allies. Static discharge does not.
Mesmer winds of chaos staff 1 also bounces off allies and enemies.

Are.1326:

I think the biggest problem with the explosive line is how Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder are balanced around grenades and their 3 hits. You can also pick up grenadier, Aim-assisted Rocket and Shrapnel at the same time, while Mortar will have to chose Shrapnel or Siege Rounds, both good in control/condi builds.

yes this. Steelpacked powder single handledly made grenades supreme in all things.

And new explosives/firearms all favor grenades.

Impact.6213:

Whoa the toolbelt skill is a must if you’re running a condi build… Don’t change that.

eh. doing the math on a full cond pve build now.

In the words of Immortan Joe.
“Mediocre.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bi69t/dnt_updated_build_guides_for_all_8_professions/
DnT’s dps builds.

Grenade barrage in a zerker build. 32,500 damage average. 25 or 21s CD.

Incendiary ammo, full cond build.
25 stacks vul, might. etc…
3364 condition damage or so. 653/stack burn.
3 stacks, 3s+98% duration.
11,636 base x 1.25 vul=14,545 single target burning… on a 50 second cd. 42s cd with 15% reduction.
Bugged? and only apply half the stacks its supposed to? STILL only 29,090 single target, on a 45second CD.

Barrage does 7 stacks of vul, is aoe, has LESS then half the CD, AND is more raw damage.

Throw Napalm.
.700 coeff direct. 1362 average with vul and crit factored in.
4s burning on impact. 7.92s duration =5171base – 6465 with vul.
+ 3 stacks 1s burning on pulse. 3879base-4848 with vul.
total: 1362 direct+ 11,313 aoe burning.
fire field. 25s-21s CD.

so, currently not sure what is up.

what does seem to be the case is, Ascended kit weapon strength is 920-1015 for 967.5 average dps.
people might be using the wrong value in dps calcs. Was this the case prior to the last patch? I am not sure. note, this value is lower then pistol, or rifle. (of course, that used to be true back in the day too…) I estimated much higher values prepatch. DNT uses 1000 weapon str it seems. were we both wrong?

Exotic kit weapon str seems to be 878-971. with 924 average. (old old value in vanilla was 921 average, with 923 as tooltip value.)

Thought I would revisit this.

Prepatch I made some rough estimates for kit weapon str.
Determined that kit scaling is working with quality. all tiers showed clear upgrades in damage with base weapon quality.

I made rough estimates for exotic to be around 975 average, with ascended to be 1013-1017..
these values were tested in southshore with breeze riders. there was some room for error with npcs, poor use of wrench.. due to vul, and sample size.

Finding other documentation on this seems impossible. no wiki, nothing in game, etc.

today Dnt updated their dps guides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bi69t/dnt_updated_build_guides_for_all_8_professions/
Lots of errors in Brazils engi spreadsheet.. .but I do notice he has 1000 weapon str marked for kit.
Can’t make 100% accurate balance or damage estimates if I do not know the exact weapon strength of kits. I wanted the exact damage range, not just a rough average.

So I went back to Silverwastes and attacked some dummies.

Process. remove all traits. and gear providing damage boosts. I’ used my sinister/hybrid cond gear. balth runes. only sigil of corruption.
Auto attacked the dummies over and over. sample size… large.

Up first was ascended rifle. .650 hip shot is known. 1035-1150 weapon str known. 1745 power. known.
549 min to 670 max hit.

Dummy armor projected at 2138.3-2141. (I came up with 2137 on dummys last week.)

Elixir gun. .4 coef. 1745 power. est armor 2140.
300-331
919.7-1015… ave 967.5. what? that is noticeably lower then expected..

Flame thrower. .225 coef per hit. 1745 power. ext armor 2140.
169-186.
921-1014.. average 963..

ascended Pistol.
.350 coef frag shot. 920-1080 weapon str. 1579 power.
237-278.
Est armor: 2145-2147. bit higher est here. has no real effect on outcome. 2140 or 2145.
2140 armor gives 963 ave flamethower, 2145 gives 967 ave.

exotic pistol.
.350 coeff. 876-1029 weapon str. 1729power. (note the higher power)
247-290 est armor. 2146-2147.

Exotic EG.
.4 coef. 1729power, 2145 est armor.
283-313 dealt.
Est weapon str. 878-970.7 924 ave dps.

Sold Out.7625:

You really underestimate the current mortar. It’s not quite as strong as grenades, but…

More specifically.. “It’s not quite as strong as grenades, as a melee aoe pve dps machine.”

but why the heck should it be?

Sold Out.7625:

Casia.4281:

Testing mortar again right now. I am NOT getting explosive powder bonus currently. I do not know why yet.

‘tis a buggy mess! Make sure that during earlier tests you didn’t get an effect like Glass cannon instead! It’s an easy mistake to make. I did some testing in the past, and I have not yet seen a ninja-fix. But hey, it’s on the bugs megathread. Best hopes!

nope. Very consistent in keeping track of that. As well as excessive energy, etc.

Had a moment there where I thought I had it… day 1 test was with pistols, day2 after Gern vid, I used rifle to match his using a rifle… today was pistols again. But nope, tried rifle just now, and it still is not working today.

Testing mortar again right now. I am NOT getting explosive powder bonus currently. I do not know why yet.

vs dummies in SW.
1517 power.

base 545-600
+Excessive energy. 602-660
+glass cannon. 633-690
+shaped charge. 632-685. (immune to vul/cond.)
+thermobaric det. 631-688

Firearms changed to alch with no traits selected.
632-690. Not a firearm or alch trait effecting it.

Tools changed to inventions.
- excessive energy. 574-628. (545-600 base x1.05% glass cannon= 572-630)

grenadier, aim assisted, seige.
544-599
explosive, aim seige.
543-591
glass cannon, aim, seige
571-629

explosive, shaped, seige
546-597
explosive,short fuse, seige
etc, etc.

nope to all explostive traits.

Tried several means of zoning and relogging in an attempt to see if that had some kind of effect.
No success. zoning with or without Explosive powder. nothing made it work.

So, this so far has been unreproducable in a consistent manor. first test Explosive powder was not working. days later, it was. Third test today, it was not working.

Tried rifle vs pistols. no change.

Simply nothing I do, makes explosive powder work for me today.

Testing mortar again right now. I am NOT getting explosive powder bonus currently. I do not know why yet.

vs dummies in SW.
1517 power.

base 545-600
+Excessive energy. 602-660
+glass cannon. 633-690
+shaped charge. 632-685. (immune to vul/cond.)
+thermobaric det. 631-688

Firearms changed to alch with no traits selected.
632-690. Not a firearm or alch trait effecting it.

Tools changed to inventions.
- excessive energy. 574-628. (545-600 base x1.05% glass cannon= 572-630)

grenadier, aim assisted, seige.
544-599
explosive, aim seige.
543-591
glass cannon, aim, seige
571-629

explosive, shaped, seige
546-597
explosive,short fuse, seige
etc, etc.

nope to all explostive traits.

So thoughts now. no it has nothing to do with trait interaction. zoning possibly?

Exxcalibur.6203:

With the two best Wps in the game decimated into oblivion, where do people afk?

Apart from the compact convenience of the post scarlet forge wp, Postern ward had it all: Bank, TP, crafting, laurels, Black lion merchants, views and ambiance.

is there anything comparable elsewhere, now that LA has been turned into a vast open spaced Disney theme park of sterility, boredom and inconvenience??

Need help finding a new non LA home base.

H – E – L – P!

Seriously. Devs really need to learn the term, “Desire paths”.
I was really dissappointed new Lions Arch did not have the Postern ward as the prime location.

no merchant near Bank. Bank not near BL merchants, or crafting… so dumb.

Why does LA not have the holo dancers from the Aetherblade fractal?

Surely we should/would have stolen that tech?

yes. it was mentioned as a possibility in an old POI. It was never stated as a fact.
Currently of course, it didn’t go live.
Same with coated bullets being baseline of course.

I was super excited about this possibility. Pistol all around, and p1 especially was woefully underpowered.

It adding vul, getting extra bleed procs, and the cripple proc, and then getting the damage bonus was really interesting, and promised alot.

However, at the same time, what we DID get, should not be overlooked. Does p1 need it still?

Chem rounds is extremely powerful. As it multiplies into duration.
Aka, 2s fragshot bleed and 5s blowtorch are normally capped at 100% duration with traits/food/etc.
so, you get 4s bleed/shot with fragshot, and 10s blowtorch burn.
Chem rounds then increases THAT by 50%.
2s bleed becomes 4s, then becomes 6s bleed. 5s burn, becomes 10s burn, then 15s burn.
200% condition duration.

If chem rounds or burning gets nerfed. then yeah, we might need to talk about getting coated bullets, and/or explosives for p1. but atm, I am not sure it needs it anymore.

A p/p, FT, flame turret, bomb, mortar build is very strong atm imho.

Not 100% sure if you should be using p1 or mortar1 when CD’s are up though.