(edited by Casia.4281)
Spread sheets do overvalue crit.
There is a few reasons why.
First, the law of averages.
Theorycrafting and spreadsheets give crit chance an absolute value. they work on this imaginary value where 1% crit means you WILL get 1% more crits.
like for example. a fight that lasts 10 hits.
1000 power and 52% crit vs 1100 power and 50% crit.
2% makes no sense here. you can’t have 2% of 10. its not a whole number. In this scenario, the power is clearly better, despite what a spreadsheet might tell you. the raw increase in damage will be measureable over 10 hits, the 2% crit will not be.
“in theory” you should get 2 more crits over 100 hits. doesn’t mean you will. That power however is direct. you will get it. Any given fight, that 2% will likely have zero impact. its impact would be measured over thousands of hits. (including trash…)
PvP will definitely favor power for this reason, crit should really be measured in multiples of 10% or so there.
Not everything is critable.
This one should be obvious. esp with world bosses atm…
Turrets used to not be. doors, wurm eggs, teq fingers, ice pillars iirc.. a few pve bosses. the molten furnace fractal core can’t be crit iirc.
WoW had a different formula for damage and stat value. Its been a while since I played and did the math. So i won’t really get into it.
But there was several “rolls” for damage.
A hit vs miss. then a hit vs crit.
Accuracy was most important, as a miss would cancel crits, or something like that.
And then on gear, stats had values. Where there was dimishing returns on stats. Spreading them out gave better value. Gw2’s stat system is different.
Lots of free crit in firearms, and super high fury uptime. I would doubt assassins is best now. Especially with stats on gear, pumping zerkers power.
If the spreadsheet is putting out a number with crit and power gear being similar. Value the power one slightly more then the spreadsheet says. There is no absolute value here. As it depends on the content you are doing.
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yeah, I’m leaning towards its a weird interaction of traits. like maybe aim-assisted rocket breaks it or something dumb. and not actually fixed per-say.
its possible we both somehow were wrong… but the damage should have been very noticeable. don’t really know how we could have.
Just a sidenote, Mortar’s damage IS being increased by explosive powder, and is in fact being classed as an explosion. This is easy enough to tell when you run the trait Steel-packed powder, or simply look at Mortar’s skill damage and see that it’s damage is blue, not white when you’re traited with explosive powder.
Also, I’m just going to go ahead and say it because we’re thinking it: Mortar Shot’s damage decreased by too much with the latest kneejerk patch. It now only exceeds the Rifle’s damage by virtue of the explosion’s damage trait.
Well, it does by ~5% base, and additionally has the 100% projectile finisher. Was the nerf a bit overdone? Without a doubt. Engie lacks any other ranged option. But if the trait -and- the finisher are both fixed, it should be a decent skill. Now to quickly check if steel packed powder was fixed!
Edit: After some testing, I do -not- think it is actually applied. On the tooltip, yes. I only really quickly hit some dummies though, so that’s hardly maths. Lemme check s’more.
Double edit: All numbers taken without gear in the Silverwastes.
30 shots of Mortar #1 without the Explosives line:
- 5297 damage total
30 shots of mortar #1 WITH the Explosives line (no Glass cannon traited, and no vuln applied on dummies, but Explosives Powder as a minor.)
- 5323 damage total
Short Maths of 10 Mortar #1 shots x 3 WITH glasscannon:
- 5589 damage total
Explosives packed powder is only applied in the tooltip!
agreed. tested. and 10% explosive damage is not being applied.
tested again, and DOES seem to be getting explosive damage. not sure if fixed, or there is some other odd trait interaction making it sometimes get it, sometimes not. (wouldnt be the first time one trait, breaks a different one.)
Still doesn’t work on the dummies!
ha no. I checked that. when i tested yesterday, I first went to the arid devourers Gern was attacking for consistency, then when I saw it was working, ran over to the dummies to see if that WAS the issue. but nope, was working there too.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Mortar might be working with explosions already. testing seems inconsistent. I’m going to try seeing if a trait of some kind was interfering.
yesterdays testing showed it getting explosive damage increase when I tested.
So it was already fixed, or there is some odd combination of traits that makeit/break it.
hip shots .65coeff, into the rifles higher weapon damage at 1150 average ascended, gives a 747 combined coeff.
I estimated mortar at either .75 or .8 into the 1017 weapon str. for 763 or 813.
the 763 estimate would throw up very similar numbers per shot to hipshot, without explosives trait.
the 813 should be noticeably higher.
813 is 8.8% higher damage then hip shots 747
763 is 2.1% higher then hip shots 747.
WITH explosives it should be very noticeable.
nades are .33×3 1017 weapon str. for 1007 24% higher then the 813.
gerns vid. he is getting 10% damage from excessive energy, and not dodge rolling to burn it off.
Predator=legendary/ascended weapon str.
(wait… I didn’t test that… IS his legendary giving ascended weapon kit str or exotic? I would NOT put that past them… I dont have a legendary weapon to test..)
hip shot 866-1053 959.5 av
Mortar 958-1045 1003 av (that the high is LESS then hip shots, makes me think you didnt get your max mortar hit. so this might be a low average.)
I would expect 959.5x 1.088 for 1044 av mortar hit, assuming the .8 coeff. without
explosives trait.
959.5x 1.021 for 979 av mortar hit, assuming the .75coeff. makes me think the .8 coeff is correct, as you clearly are not seeing that.
Grenade 390-430 x3. 1230 av
1003 × 1.24= 1244.
The numbers check out here.
Grenades at 1230 average per hit, with 1 attack/s. 1230 dps.
Mortar at 1003 av per hit, with 1.25 attacks/s. (.8s/a). 1254 dps.
Hip shot at 959.5 av per hit, with 1.19 a/s (.84s/a). 1142dps.
PS, took mortar into “courtyard” with my cond build. hahah. oh man was it a slaughter.
I can see mortars 100% phsy proj, its 1500 ran and its aoe chill/poison being completely broken in wvw, and some spvp maps.
second round of attacks you made, hit 1057 hip shot, and still did not brake 1045 mortar.
lows in the 800’s for hip shot though. wonder if rifle has a higher range.
also playing a condition build. the phys proj is really strong. people are REALLY underestimating that.
pretty sure naplam, throw naplam and firebomb give 100% firefield uptime.
sigh…
your nades were getting 10% explosive powder.
2% from cripple, via mod ammo.
And about 7-8% from vul stacks.
21% more damage, because you didnt isolate traits, or focus playstyle around each strengths you traited for nades.Look. At. The. Video. The only nade traits I had were “steel backed power” “explosive powder”, and shrapnel. All of which apply to mortar as well as grenades.
I’m getting more and more convinced you are simply trolling.
hrm weird. testing earlier found no change with the trait. not the only one seeing that too..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Engineer-Bugs-Updated-Consolidated/page/2#post5219180
testing now. did come up with it working.
This does create problems. if you were getting 10% explosives, and cripple, and double the vul stacks anticipated, etc your damage should have been higher.
Mortar should be doing very clearly more damage then rifle, esp if explosive powder is working.
I wonder if there is something interfering with it. getting overwritten by another trait or something.
(edited by Casia.4281)
sigh…
your nades were getting 10% explosive powder.
2% from cripple, via mod ammo.
And about 7-8% from vul stacks.
21% more damage, because you didnt isolate traits, or focus playstyle around each strengths you traited for nades.
Becuase mortar is not an explosive, its relying on your first crit to add vul (50% chance)and bleeds(33% chance..)
THEN gets its 5% damage, and THEN gets its 10% more crit chance. as well.
(edited by Casia.4281)
so what did we learn from that?
1. mortar hits harder then rifle.
2. mortar attacks faster then grenades.
3. grenades are just as easy to miss with, as mortar.
4. grenades are the superior melee weapon, due to stacking more procs per attack. Also, lets add the several crit in melee range traits.
5. mortar needs its explosion tag correctly.
6. mortar is a combo beast.
7. mortar is the 1500 range option. and thus superior ranged option.
Grenades. short-medium. High dps, high conditions.
Bombs. no range. high dps. high combos.
Mortar. Long-short range. medium dps. high combos.
Rifle. medium-point blank. staple dps. jumpshot. cc.
Pistol. short-point blank.. BURN THEM ALL.
flamethrower. -ft2, ft4, swap back out.
elixir gun. … acid bath. underwater has to have something right?
tk. point blank. cc. cc. burst damage.
is this is hard?
(edited by Casia.4281)
Here, you go. I made some visual evidence of the sub-par damage of Mortar #1, in comparison with rifle and grenade #1 on mobs in silverwatstes. Enjoy.
wish your combat log was open..
drop gunk is ethereal field. hell I didnt even notice that before. Mortar is even better than I thought. you ran OUT of it. why would you even do that?
716-869 mortar. vul stacks of course mess things up a bit. vs scaled drake.
:09-:21 15 shots in12s. .8s/a
Rifle. vs arid devourer.
628-786
1:18-1:26. 10 shots in 8s. also clocking in at .8s/a
Mortar. vs arid dev #2.
missed alot. 755-806. small sample.
1:34-1:45 14 shots in 11s .78s/a.
Mortar. vs arid dev #3.
822-831
1:48-1:56
Grenades. vs arid dev.
lots of misses again. 335-382 hard to read. so many crits, and overlapping numbers. pls combat log.
2:05-2:16 11 attacks in 11s. 1a/s
you have explosive powder giving 10% damage to grenades. Mod ammo giving all sorts of damage based on any given value. vul, bleeds, etc…
if you USED your combo fields, your mortar would be getting 2% from the poison, blind, confuse, bleed, etc each..
Glass cannon should be hitting them all, as well as excessive energy.
Grenades. vs arid dev2
332-359.
Grenades. vs arid dev3
402-423.
Your vul stacking and traits makes it impossible to get an accurate assessment.
your rifle is clearly averaging in the 600’s per hit, mortar in the 750-800s, per hit
Nades 1000per hit. which duh, considering you have more nade traits. at least 10% from explosions.
I feel like the range complaints are the same people that insist grenades when at 1200+ range, would fail to hit due to the spread. “but you never can land 3 grenades!”
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hrm. yeah. very first npc on retest worked fine. with kinetic battery right of the bat.
so either it was a bug that was fixed. or, there was some other factor going on when I tested it day one.
seems to be working fine now though.
set a control. remove other variables. establish values such as armor, power.
Record numbers over a large sample size. 100 attacks min. 1000 ideal.“I did 3k vs vinewrath with mortar, and 3.5 with grenades” is not evidence. that is an anecdote.
That’s all fine and dandy on paper. But I have actually been using these kits on actual mobs and players to get my information, instead of just adding numbers from tooltips (and then saying tooltips are inaccurate) or hitting some target dummy.
We aren’t talking about how mortar performs on paper, we are talking about how much damage you get from actually hitting someone with it, and how often you can actually hit them. Most people who have actually been using this kit can tell you that it never needed the nerf, and it is much weaker than grenades, only slightly stronger than rifle.
no one is talking “on paper”.
go to silver wastes, remove all traits, etc. extra gear. no parties. no other players. ideal to use the dummies. but npcs can be used if you make sure to attack the same npc over and over. and you must also then use a control weapon to figure out the npcs armor value.
attack them 1000 times. record values.
weird. when I was testing it, over and over, it would simply not activate when all my skills were off cd. yet as soon as I burned regenerating mist to try forcing it to. it would activate the next dodge every time.
set a control. remove other variables. establish values such as armor, power.
Record numbers over a large sample size. 100 attacks min. 1000 ideal.
“I did 3k vs vinewrath with mortar, and 3.5 with grenades” is not evidence. that is an anecdote.
“engineers” refusing to use evidence or math.
so disappoint.
ha yeah. but its not even just simply dodging.
It also seems to need a toolbelt skill already on cd. if no tb skills are on CD it wont activate.
then, of course, the tb skill you WANT it to work on, can’t be on CD.
So you have to manage its internal CD. you have to manage your dodges. manage the TB cooldowns of the other skills, to get the one you want, to be up and ready for the battery.
when it works. insanely op. hard to make work. so I guess balanced?
Look, I’ll admit one thing: I don’t know what you are saying when you use terms like “coeff”, and throw around those numbers. I don’t know what they represent. I am basing my information on adding up the damage see when using both kits, something anyone else can do and come to the same conclusion. I do know one thing: comparing the speed of grenades without the grenadier trait, and the speed of mortar, the mortar projectile is in no way faster than grenades, especially at 1500 range. You don’t have to be a math wiz to see that.
Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor
Damage dealt is this formula.
First, tooltips lie. so don’t use them for anything.
weapon strength is the actual listed weapon damage.
This is hidden on kits. so a bit harder to value. but tested has shown kit weapon strength is about 1017 average while you have an ascended rifle or pistol equipped. kits do scale with rare, fine, exotic, ascended quality weapons.
(a pistol is 1000 average, and rifle 1150 average) kit tooltips actually show a totally wrong 923 ave kit weapon strength.
Power is your total power.
Skill coefficient is the coefficient each skill uses individually. every skill has a unique one.
for hip shot this is .650. meaning hip shot effectively uses 65% of your power for its damage per shot.
Armor is your targets armor, which directly reduces damage dealt as you can see. tooltips use 2600 armor for display.
attack speed is measured with a stopwatch. tooltips show a recharge value, which generally has no meaningful correlation to anything. Break out the stopwatch to get a real value.
No one said the mortar projectile is faster. What WAS said was, in 30 seconds you throw 3 grenade volleys. In 30 seconds you fire 37.5 mortar shots.
7 more attacks made.
so right now we have grenades and mort0r dealing the same amount of damage per attack. but, mortar fires off 20% more often.
(with mortar not getting explosives, yes grenades do deal 10% more damage per throw atm. +explosive procs.)
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Interesting. so why doesn’t incendiary ammo do this?
This nerf is a good idea. The range:damage ration was unprecedented.
How is it that you think that? Before the nerf it did slightly less damage than grenade kit #1 attack (the same power based damage, but it puts out fewer conditions) while still being as slow and hard to hit people at 1500 range as grenade kit was. Now it does as much power damage as rifle AA, the only thing that makes it a little higher damage is the slight boost in damage it gets from “explosive powder” and “steel-packed powder.” Everyone that keeps saying it did all this damage aparently can’t add the damage from the 3 grenades in grenade #1. Before the nerf, in a full zerker build I was critting with the mortar #1 at between 3K and 5k max, I was hitting things on average for around 4k. That’s the same numbers I see with grenade #1 attack. Now, the highest crit I can get with mortar #1 is 2.5K to the occasional 3k. That’s the same as rifle AA
Now, the only reason to ever use mortar #1 is if I happen to need to hit something at range beyond 1000, because it’s literally now our only power based attack with a range beyond that.
none of this is true. you keep saying these things, with zero proof. all of which are clearly wrong.
1. before the nerf it did 10% more coeff( 1.05 or 1.1coeff, to grenades .99 all 3 hitting and combined), and 20% faster attack then grenades. .8s/a vs 1s/a.
2. now it does .8 power coeff (with a .8s/a speed), rifle 1 is .65.(with a .84s/a speed)
it does WAY more damage then rifle. It does more then grenades still… (marginally granted, so now the extra procs and vul do make grenades better as a short-mid range weapon.)
3. tooltip seems to show explosive damage buff, but actual damage is still not being effected by being an explosive.
runes of balth seem to cap burning duration too fast for many builds. decent if not using fool/oil I suppose. but be careful.
I did some math, and it looks like precision calculation has changed from (precision – 824)/21 = crit chance to (precision – 916)/21 = crit chance.
This means that despite the increase from 916 to 1000 precision, base precision has remained 4%.
also of note, the crit chance formula was changed it seems.
While you might take this for “well you need more prec then” I read it as, the 200 prec you would get from rampagers vs sinister would be even smaller gains. thus really not worth it.
he has HGH, and elixir B.
have you been reading my posts on p/p Braxxis?
I found some weird things..
Looks like you are running aristocracy, not balth like most of us have been. Which might be good. Most of us have been focusing on burning.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Duration
Conditions have a 100% duration cap.
Most of use running balth atm, get 45% duration from that. 33% incindary. and then add 40% food on that… we are already burning capped at 118%
sigil of smoldering is overkill and useless, 10% oil useless for burning at that point, etc etc. givers, 10% malice..
you have 40% food, 10% malice, 10% oil, for 60% all. +33 serrated/incindary. giving 93% duration for bleeds and burning. 60% poison/confuse
So if running food/oil all the time, better then balth for sure I think.
traveller would provide that 10% to cap bleed/burn. give 39.6 cond damage. 15% boon duration. move speed. (just thinking here.)
Krait definately not worth it.
Nightmare? pretty basic.. but… 15% duration, 175cond damage… you could even drop the sigil of malice. 40% food, 10% oil, 15% nightmare, 33%burn/bleed. for 98%. now take sigil of bursting 7% damage, and corruption +250 cond damage. this might be the right choice…
Chem rounds. possibly notice I didn’t add that in…
As far as I can tell, it breaks the condition cap. AND multiplies into duration.
5s blowtorch, capped at 100% will burn for 10s.
5s blowtorch, capped at 100% with chem rounds will burn for 15s. (even if the tooltip says 16-19+seconds.)
Prepatch I theorized rampagers over sinister due to prec to cond, and procs on crit. Post patch, I don’t feel valuing crit over cond damage is correct. too much of our cond damage comes directly from active effects. pdv, napalm, blowtorch, etc. The procs are nice, but not remotely enough for that 1-3% crit advantage to justify. esp with all those free crit traits. we all have like 80% uptime or more of fury now. as well as a 10% free crit from firearms traits.
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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Duration
Condition duration from various sources increases (and decreases) additively as a percentage increase on the base condition duration. For example, an increase of 30% condition duration from traits and an increase of 15% bleeding duration from runes would yield a total of 45% bleeding duration increase over the base duration. Condition duration from runes isn’t shown in the skill’s tooltip, but does correctly increase duration. Condition duration cannot be increased beyond 100%
Just a sidenote, Mortar’s damage IS being increased by explosive powder, and is in fact being classed as an explosion. This is easy enough to tell when you run the trait Steel-packed powder, or simply look at Mortar’s skill damage and see that it’s damage is blue, not white when you’re traited with explosive powder.
Also, I’m just going to go ahead and say it because we’re thinking it: Mortar Shot’s damage decreased by too much with the latest kneejerk patch. It now only exceeds the Rifle’s damage by virtue of the explosion’s damage trait.
Well, it does by ~5% base, and additionally has the 100% projectile finisher. Was the nerf a bit overdone? Without a doubt. Engie lacks any other ranged option. But if the trait -and- the finisher are both fixed, it should be a decent skill. Now to quickly check if steel packed powder was fixed!
Edit: After some testing, I do -not- think it is actually applied. On the tooltip, yes. I only really quickly hit some dummies though, so that’s hardly maths. Lemme check s’more.
Double edit: All numbers taken without gear in the Silverwastes.
30 shots of Mortar #1 without the Explosives line:
- 5297 damage total
30 shots of mortar #1 WITH the Explosives line (no Glass cannon traited, and no vuln applied on dummies, but Explosives Powder as a minor.)
- 5323 damage total
Short Maths of 10 Mortar #1 shots x 3 WITH glasscannon:
- 5589 damage total
Explosives packed powder is only applied in the tooltip!
agreed. tested. and 10% explosive damage is not being applied.
tested again, and DOES seem to be getting explosive damage. not sure if fixed, or there is some other odd trait interaction making it sometimes get it, sometimes not. (wouldnt be the first time one trait, breaks a different one.)
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The rifle is better than ever. Heavy armour exploit has no recharge?
it never did? you could have taken precise sights long ago.
Swiftness on crit had kitten cd/duration.
yeah, i really do not understand the removal of riflemod.
the old traits had the problem with too many good rifle traits honestly. you couldnt take them all, and rifle suffered for it.
sitting duck, precise sights, rifle mod, rifled barrels, hair trigger, bunker down, mod ammo.
Even go for the eyes would have been nice.. if you didnt already have 7 traits for 3 slots in firearms.
so, in some ways clearly a number of them had to go. either merged, made baseline or just removed as not everyone was taking them.
Truthfully, I did not run rifled barrels. I ran rifle mod, hair trigger, and mod ammo in dungeons, swapping mod ammo for sitting duck in solo pve, and spvp.
I was expecting a nice buff to power and range…
I can understand rifle mod was boring. the may have wished a more interesting trait.
But 10%ias is near worthless. again, only effects the auto attack… rifle is not for procing things really. 10% ias is nothing. you are swaping to leap/blunderbuss constantly, prybar, gadgets. you should never really be using the aa much. its weaker dps then any kit.
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been searching for posts about, this since the patch.
I have not once been able to join someone elses fractal party. Every time, they are already in, and I can not get the prompt to join theirs.
I have to start my own.
all other cond durations add.
if 40% food, 33% trait, and 50% chem multiplied like you said, and then were 279.3% of base, then it would be 2seconds x 3.2793=7.586s duration.
but you don’t get that. you get a 5 1/4s bleed.
in fact, cond duration is even listed in your char sheet. (total)
(bleeding 33%, burning 78% with incind amm/serrated steel traited.) doesn’t show specific of course.
+40% food.
73% bleeding 100% burning. interesting to note, its supposed to be capped at 100% right?
hrm. that would explain the 15s burning duration I counted.
45% balth 7 1/4s list 5×1.45= 7.25
33% inc powder. 9s burn list 5x 1.733 =8.66
+40% duration food. 11s burn. 5×2.18=10.9s
Tooltip is LISTING 11s burn for that 118% duration of balth, inc powder, and 40% duration food.
However, as the char sheet notes, it ACTUALLY capped at 100%. so I bet if I stopwatched it, it would read 11s, but only count to 10s.
Chem rounds is bugged either on purpose or not. and breaking the 100% cap as well.
so 10s capped+50% =15s duration I stopwatched, while the tooltip read 16 1/4s.
(edited by Casia.4281)
is chem rounds supposed to be multiply condition duration with other condition duration?
and breaking 100% duration cap?
(edited by Casia.4281)
new chem rounds question.
Does it multiply into cond duration? is this intended?
It seems to.
Blowtorch. 5s burn base.
45% balth 7 1/4s list 5×1.45= 7.25
33% inc powder. 9s burn list 5x 1.733 =8.66
+40% duration food. 11s burn. 5×2.18=10.9s
+50% chem round… 16 1/4s burn 5×2.68=13.4s… 10.9×1.5=16.35 (stopwatch, I got more like 15s.)
Bleed. 40% cond food, 33% serrated, 50% chem rounds.
2s frag shot. 2×2.23 for 4.46s bleed if they add.. lists 5 1/4.
2s x 1.73= 3.46s x1.5= 5.19s
test seems to pan out.
Chem rounds is multiplying into other condition durations.
Phineas made this post in the mortar thread.
They adjusted baseline skill damage to coincide with the removal of Rifle Mod, just as they adjusted the baseline radius of bombs to coincide with the removal of Forceful Explosives. (It still says 180 but they are 240. Test it by using a mortar shell with 240 radius and drop a Fire Bomb or Smoke Bomb.)
Jump Shot is now considered an “explosion” as well, so if you’re going up the Explosives tree, Jump Shot deals 10% more damage than it did pre-patch. I was running a FOTM 40 earlier this week and combined crits for over 20K damage. This is on level 82 mobs. It wasn’t nerfed. It was buffed.
These things were stated as happening or might happen, and did not.
I felt a discussion on the state of rifle was needed, and should have its own thread.
Lets start off. Testing untraited rifle in silverwastes dummies. got a .65 coeff.
estimated armor 2137 on dummies.
36 shots in 30s. .833 s/a.
40 shots in 30s. .75 s/a with skilled marksman.
R3. 1.6 coeff tested, as expected. no change.
R5. leap up. .88 tested, .9 expected. small sample size variance. no change.
leap down. 1.79 tested, 1.8 expected. no change.
1.4s leap. with and without skilled marksman. (1.46smax range leap with and without.)
does not get 10% damage from explosions, nor applies sharpshooter or extra vul.
so yes. rifle mod is definitely not baseline now.
ran out of time atm. going for a run. will discuss rifle changes/nerfs more later.
Right off the bat, the 10% ias on rifle only effects r1. It doesnt seem to effect leaps cast time whatsever. didnt test overcharged, but I have to assume it does not either.
This is a terrible trait. R1 was not super high dps before. And its not a proc machine. the faster attack does not remotely make up for the 10% damage less. ESPECIALLY the 10% damage lost on blunderbuss and leap, the real core damage.
As an aside, the loss of power wrench in contention with static discharge also is a problem since SD builds made heavy use of throw wrench, and thus prybar.
uh.. no? 2 stacks of burning.
it increases ALL burning by 33% (including itself)
so its 6.5s of burning by itself. + any other condition duration/burning duration you have.
oh right. yeah those are all only the toolbelt skills. hrm.
speedy gadgets was 20%.
yeah. 25% sucks if thats what it is.
now, I’d say the new gadgeteer does take into consideration my statement really if it WERE 50%
1 gadget getting 50% IS more in line with how people use gadgets then the entire line getting 20%.
and yeah, def seems bugged.
tooltip says my rocket boots should be 15s down from 20s with trait.
but the actual skill does not change.
only the overcharged version has the 15s cd. thats awful..
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yeah, all gadgets had their base CD lowered.
Personal Battering Ram—Launch Personal Battering Ram: Recharge reduced from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
Rocket Boots—Rocket Kick: Recharge reduced from 20 seconds to 17 seconds.
Slick Shoes—Super Speed: Recharge reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Mine—Mine Field: Recharge reduced from 20 seconds to 17 seconds.
Utility Goggles—Analyze: Recharge reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Grenade Kit—Grenade Barrage: Recharge reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Tool Kit—Throw Wrench: Recharge reduced from 20 seconds to 17 seconds.
Flame Turret—Throw Napalm: Recharge reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Harpoon Turret—Harpoon: Recharge reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.
Net Turret—Net Attack: Recharge reduced from 45 seconds to 38 seconds.
Rifle Turret—Surprise Shot: Recharge reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.
Rocket Turret—Rocket: Recharge reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
did not check to see if these notes were all accurate.
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It would be interesting if the overcharge would make the gadget actually good. The effects are all kind of meh tbh.
And 25% cdr is ridiculously bad given that most cdr traits just give a 20% discount on all skills of a group. Should be 50%. They changed it to 25% last minute.
That and its almost impossible to justify taking more then one gadget at a time.
Gadget traits need to take that into consideration.
I dropped rocket boots for Elixir U in pvp.
If U is up, its pretty much an I-win button. the wall was always good in pvp before too.
yeah. I’ll look into it after work. honestly 20k doesn’t sound that crazy to me… jump shot already hit hard. 25 stacks of vul/might, and the power change. yeah. A number of other profession buffs providing stats.
Should start a rifle thread I suppose. and we can actually discuss its balance changes, promises and lies.
yeah, my thinking is the fall damage is primarily used in WvW. (might find use in HoT I suppose…) So it should be bundled with something useful in spvp. functionally, that would also have some use in WvW too. leg mod which gives -33 cripple/immobalize/chill? duration makes ALOT of sense. or even power legs, which was the 25% move speed. all 3 might be a bit much admittedly.
They adjusted baseline skill damage to coincide with the removal of Rifle Mod, just as they adjusted the baseline radius of bombs to coincide with the removal of Forceful Explosives. (It still says 180 but they are 240. Test it by using a mortar shell with 240 radius and drop a Fire Bomb or Smoke Bomb.)
Jump Shot is now considered an “explosion” as well, so if you’re going up the Explosives tree, Jump Shot deals 10% more damage than it did pre-patch. I was running a FOTM 40 earlier this week and combined crits for over 20K damage. This is on level 82 mobs. It wasn’t nerfed. It was buffed.
This never happened. They said they were…. it didnt happen.
Far as I know, rifle skills have the same coeff they did before. And rifle 5 is not an explosion.
You might have more power from stat changes though. My SD rifle build does.
I was 2/6/0/0/6. So I gained like 200 power.
Powerwrench now competes with SD which sucks as ALL SD builds ran toolkit.
I’ve been playtesting p/p since patch admittedly, and can’t really comment on how my SD rifle has really faired. I do need to test that 10% ias trait.
IF it works like quickness and effects overcharged shots kb. great. same with Jumpshots leap speed.
If it does not, its much much weaker then 10% damage rifle mod.
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to clarify.
grenadier. Grenade kit exclusive trait.
Explosive descent. wvw, and super niche world pve trait.
Glass cannon. Pve trait.
All 3 are fairly niche. none are particularly useful in pvp. only grenadier has any synergy with any particular builds.
All the fall damage traits probably should have been coupled with things. they are hard to justify alone.
But couple explosive descent with leg mods, or energized armor.. (yes I know leg mods was already coupled into mecha legs.)
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I’m not at home right now. Besides, you are ignoring the fact that you are not going to be able to hit a person at range with 100% of your mortar attacks, you will be lucky if you can hit them with half of them.
dont move goalposts.
People said that same thing about grenades themselves. especially when the nade nerf when into effect. Made these SAME arguments. yet, everyone is complaining about that range loss as well. So either you can’t hit at 1500, or you can.
And no one is demanding grenades get a 30% damage buff.
I do agree the melee damage penalty would be a good way to allow it to hit hard at range, and factor in missing/proj speed, while not being completely broken spamming in melee range like we do grenades.
1. no. its too strong at that.
.How do people keep believing this? How did they ever believe it? Before the nerf it had THE SAME BASE DAMAGE AS GRENADE #1 but it also is only a single attack, so it procks a single crit strike and thus applies far fewer conditions than greanade #1, so it did less damage than grenade #1 even before the nerf. Add to the fact that its as slow as the old grenade kit, but a much more obvious and easily dodgable/sidestepable attack and you can see that it was most definately not overpowered.
no it didn’t.
It currently has either a .8 or .75 coeff, with a .8 a/s.
Giving it either a 1, or .93 effective coeff.Grenades have a .33 × 3 on a 1 a/s speed.
a .99 effective coeff.everyone seems to be ignoring it was 20% FASTER attack then grenades with an either 1.05 or 1.1 coeff. (if the 28% was correct) giving it an effective 1.3 coeff, or 1.37 coeff.
Bombkit 1 is 1.25coeff, at .84a/s. giving an effective 1.48.
it was closer to BOMBS then it was grenades.
no one has produced a single shred of math to prove otherwise.
Maybe the “-28%” was even wrong.
what was the coeff EXACTLY?
do you even know? Do any of you complaining know what it was?What are you talking about? Have you actually used the mortar kit? There is no way it’s 20% faster than grenades, even grenades without the grenafier trait. Before the patch it had about 900 base damage in full zerker gear, which is the same as grenades when you add up the damage from all three grenades. And that is not counting all the damage from the conditions that grenades puts out, which mortar can I only apply a 3rd of.
Break out your stop watch. come back.
Tooltips lie. they use the old vanilla 923 ave kit damage, across all weapon teir damage values.
dont ever use tooltips as basis of balance changes.
but yes, trusting you had the same power, we should be able to use it to confirm the shift as while that damage listed is not accurate to how much you actually do. it should be correct in relation to the change.
explosives t1 is kindof terrible. needs everything love.
1. no. its too strong at that.
.How do people keep believing this? How did they ever believe it? Before the nerf it had THE SAME BASE DAMAGE AS GRENADE #1 but it also is only a single attack, so it procks a single crit strike and thus applies far fewer conditions than greanade #1, so it did less damage than grenade #1 even before the nerf. Add to the fact that its as slow as the old grenade kit, but a much more obvious and easily dodgable/sidestepable attack and you can see that it was most definately not overpowered.
no it didn’t.
It currently has either a .8 or .75 coeff, with a .8 a/s.
Giving it either a 1, or .93 effective coeff.
Grenades have a .33 × 3 on a 1 a/s speed.
a .99 effective coeff.
everyone seems to be ignoring it was 20% FASTER attack then grenades with an either 1.05 or 1.1 coeff. (if the 28% was correct) giving it an effective 1.3 coeff, or 1.37 coeff.
Bombkit 1 is 1.25coeff, at .84a/s. giving an effective 1.48.
it was closer to BOMBS then it was grenades.
no one has produced a single shred of math to prove otherwise.
Maybe the “-28%” was even wrong.
what was the coeff EXACTLY?
do you even know? Do any of you complaining know what it was?
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yeah. all the “overcharges” seem useless to me.
And yeah, having to take hits to use them, even worse.
Using toolbelt skills should charge it?
If you guys don’t know, burning is ridiculously op right now. You guys should really try it out, deals much more than zerker. With burning build as op as it is, I don’t see why people would want to be a mortar zerker engie as all you do is spam 1 until your finger dies and it deals less damage.
Ah okay. So the nerf one one thing is okay, because something else is still overpowered. Atleast untill THAT gets nerfed as well… then we’ll have… what exactly?
We lost our Grenade kit for range because it would make this stupid Mortar Kit look bad. And still the Mortar was disapointing. Just one real damaging ability and everything else a bunch of combo fields. All with cooldowns that are just way to excessive.
Can someone explain to me the logic of giving us a 1500 range combofield machine, when almost all of our blast finishers are melee range? Poison and Light combofields are trash anyway.Had to sacrifice a healthy bull to get a sickly chicken. And now theyre cutting of the chickens legs. I call shenanigans.
Orbital strike itself is a 1500 blast combo finisher. (which blasts twice with seige rounds)
M1 is a 1500 proj finisher.
Also, mortar is a support tool. laying down combo fields 1500 away on the point, while you stay at range and your war friend procs the melee combos.
Also m1 still does as much damage as grenades.
It WAS doing 30% MORE then grenades..
it does that just fine without being the #1 ranged dps engi weapon.
It is the only ranged engi weapon above 1000 range. Are you arguing that engi rifle and grenades should be 1200 range?
This is what I think Anet should try for two weeks, and get feedback from that period.
1) Restore Mortar #1 damage to pre-nerf levels.
2) Increase recharge on Mortar #1 from 1/2s to 2/3s.
3) Increase AoE circle of Mortar #1 to match Mortar #2-4 because it is a slow projectile.
4) Add a -33% Mortar #1 damage penalty for ranges under 480.
how does rifle range even figure in? sure rifle(and possibly elixirgun) should be 1200, and pistol 1000.
1. no. its too strong at that.
2. its already .8 a/s. (which is faster then nades, and even rifle pre-trait.)
3. ok.
4. actually a great idea to balance it. a 20% buff over 1000, and a 33% nerf under 480. great idea.
the high damage at max range would be counterable by its slow movement. And in pve, forcing you to either move in and out of the 1000 range, or totally preclude you from swapping bombs/ft/mortar.
on the topic, pulsing vul was mentioned for the aoe skills. It doesn’t. and I was going back and forth on if it should.
Individually, yes it should. 6 stacks of vul, and sharpshooter procs each.. but I do worry what happens when you unload them all. 3 pulsing combo fields. in the end, that would only be 4 stacks/sec with m1 being fired as well, I believe. compared to grenades 3. and it then even has cooldowns. So yes, probably should.
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mortar kit is currently the second highest dps weapon we have.
Elixir gun is a support/condition/boon weapon. it not getting the condition traits is odd.
you are being childish. and completely ignoring the math. keep it out of other balance threads.