Guild Wars 2

Shifted.6912:

Biscuithammer.8615:

The set I want costs around 30 gold.

You said it yourself.
The set you want.
Mats for crafted exotics are less than half of that. If you aren’t able to get 10-15 gold as a level 80, I don’t know what the hell you’re doing.
Free tip: start using the trading post, you can get rich on that thing.

Where’s the trading post data to back this up?

Vathill.6125:

Crica.1503:

nope – armor for looks is subjective and any gold price placed on it is subject per user

there cant very well be millions of prices for everyone…

so everyone makes their own choice as to if they wish to go after the armor or not based on their own visual tastes…

as for the gold price in place, again, what’s the hurry?

are you afraid the servers will shut down before you can buy it?

You are still failing to see the point I’m making with the original post, and your constant use of it is getting really stale.

By no means am i in any rush to get the armor, hence my saying i am really only getting this for the appearance. If they were to do as someone had stated earlier and make it so it has no stats, but more of a skin that would make more sense, and i wouldn’t have much of a reason to make my statement in the first place.

But considering the fact that it has stats, is scaling from the Tier 1-3 armors, the fluctuation in price is just ridiculous.

Just don’t look at the stats.

Story mode should be the easy mode ran by PUGs, so the rewards need to be worthwhile.

Explorable mode should be the hard mode ran by experienced groups, so it needs to be made a lot harder because right now it’s not a challenge at all for a decent group.

But this doesn’t make sense, 90% of the groups are PUGs… so 90% of the people have 25% of the dungeon content to work with(only story mode), and only 10% of the people playing have the ability to clear 75% of the dungeon content(the 3 explorable paths)?

That needs to be flipped around.

Pick one or two paths for explorable mode that are hard mode and have the prestige rewards.

Pick one or two paths for explorable and put these on the same difficulty as story mode, but have some decent non-prestige rewards, maybe a new token that lets you get armor with the non-cool skins but with the same stats as the cool skins.

This way there is something for everyone.

Dungeon gear is prestige gear and prestige gear is something that you’re supposed to accumulate over weeks or even months to show that you lost your life on a tiny part of the game but that’s not really a big deal because the stats are the same as “easy” to get exotic gear which isn’t really easy to get but still the dungeon armor is just there to look fancy not to be an upgrade in stats. breath

Did some more testing with this.

I put up a buy order for a piece of gear, the amount I put is 3, 20 silver each.

I lose 60 silver from my inventory.

The buy orders are quickly filled, I check my “items bought” list, the item appears 3 times. I go to the trading post NPC, the item only appears once in the pickup list, I select pickup all, I only have one of the item in my inventory, I but lost 3*20=60 silver, meaning 40 silver vanished into thin air.

I tried it again, but this time I put up 3 seperate buy orders for 3 different prices. One order for 20 silver 1 copper, one for 20 silver 2 copper, one for 20 silver 3 copper.

When the buy orders are filled, I go the the NPC, and I pick up 3 items, so I have the same item 3 times in my inventory meaning this does work properly if you use separate buy orders or if they have different prices.

You’re paying for the looks.

It would be better if they just removed the stats entirely and made this gear the same as the HoM gear or guild weapon/armor that you can just transmute onto what you want.

+1 for ArenaNet response.

No, but I would welcome areas like the Underworld or Domain of Anguish which require a lot of coordination and teamwork.

This game also needs a boss on the same level as Yogg or M’uru! Or maybe an Akylios. These are the kind of bosses that make people scream and celebration when finally beating them, and they stay in peoples minds forever.

bwillb.2165:

Cerise.9045:

They’re prestige skins. Dual wielding means you are getting twice the amount of prestige weapons to show off.

But on the other hand, two-handed weapons are larger and more noticeable. Glitch, my Asura’s knives aren’t even visible out of combat because they are completely hidden in his coat.

Maybe they need to start charging by the polygon then.

I had to do this mission 6 or 7 times before the NPCs decided to play along. Yay!

Now the same bug is occurring on the mission after it.

Better late than never I suppose, the past few days in dungeons have been really painful. (to my wallet, they’re still fun to run, arenanet did a good job designing them, though they’re a bit too easy, that’s a different issue)

Again, this isn’t about vanity gear. I loved working towards obsidian armor and I love all the options for vanity gear in GW2 (dungeons, WvW exotics, god temple exotics, Cultural armor/weapons, and all the unique skins from the mystic forge, just to give some examples).

This isn’t about the 1%, which I am myself a part of, who managed to scrounge up enough money to buy 1 or 2 full sets of exotic gear quickly after the game was released by making money off the trading post, or getting drops before all the nerfs to stop botters, or whatever other methods people used.

This is about all the people who are barely making 1-2 gold, or even less than that if they are keeping all the materials they gather because they want to use those materials to get their exotic gear.

This is about the people who have spent the entire time since hitting level 80 grinding and not having fun every day so they can get enough materials or money for their gear in weeks, maybe over a month, just so they can be on an even playing field with everyone else.

The sooner people stop having to go through the pointless gear treadmill to get their exotic gear, the sooner these people can start playing the game to have fun.

Yes, settling for green/yellow gear is a completely valid option and will let you enjoy the whole game without any roadblocks in place that prevent you from enjoying those aspects of the game. But is it balanced?

Here’s what I do in my rare gear, which I saved because the skin I use for it got extremely expensive in a recent patch. I’m still using an exotic sword because the rare sword I used when I hit 80 was ugly and I tossed it when I got an exotic sword.
http://i.imgur.com/8twIM.jpg

Now again in exotic gear, against the same mob, using the same attack, under the same conditions.
http://i.imgur.com/K8Jd0.jpg

And this is why I upgraded to exotic gear.

Sorry I deleted the post, wanted to check if the berserk buff made mobs take more damage but it doesn’t.

More than a day since my last dungeon run I still get reduced rewards.

I have a pet named Rich Mithril Vein, gets me a lot of tells from people who got fooled by it.

My drake is called Ranger Blast Finisher in honor of being the only blast finisher we have available(but it never works)

I put up a buy order for 3 identical pieces of gear.

The buy order is gone, it lists the items 3 times under “items bought” but I only got one of them in my trading post pickup.

The item isn’t stackable so there’s no way I got the other 2.

This has happened at least a dozen times before, it probably happens every time I buy multiple of the same non-stackable item like a piece of equippable gear and the buy orders get filled at the same time. Probably lost at least 50 gold from this because I like to put up buy orders in bulk.

mangarrage.1062:

Man I have really tried to be nice on these forums but there are just so many wow babies on here
There is no treadmill, there is no 40g in materials

And you know what else if everyone wants to be in the same gear everyone has to do the same thing
I made my carrion set through my tailor. I made my jewelry through my jeweler with very minimum costs, because when I’m playing the game I gathered and crafted
All toll I bought gossamer thread
Any and everyone can craft jewelry and armor for practically no cost

And what is the huge increase in grinding for exotics?

Sorry but you just don’t understand the game and how to go about acquiring materials, spend some time and do some reading.
I’m sorry but I cannto possibly disagree with you more nor can I have any kind of sympathy for anyone who wants to make something easier that is already so simple.
My 9 year old nephew is in all exotic on mats he gave to me to make his gear, just as a gauge…

If it’s really that easy can you spare me the following mats?
Glob of Ectoplasm x 55
Orichalcum Ore x 222
Ruby Orb x 25
Powerful Blood x 35
Ancient Wood Log x 30
Gossamer Scrap x 74

Especially the ecto, I decided to play PvE for 4-5 hours yesterday and got 3 yellow drops, which is a lot more than usual because I was mostly doing explorable dungeons, but I only got 1 ecto out of it.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

I used to think that. Then I saw the stats listed here.

Lets take tridens as an example:
Kraitkin (legendary trident)
Weapon strength: 919 – 1015
+ 91 power
+ 65 toughness
+ 65 vitality

Exotic tridents: Strength: 904-1000
+ 90 primary stat
+ 64 on the other two (excluding crit damage)

So the Dark Asuran Trident is:
Weapon strength: 904-1000
+ 90 power
+ 64 Toughness
+ 64 Vitality

So they are more powerful.

The 2 world completion gifts are ACCOUNT bound. So if you are insane enough to try to craft more than 2 legendaries you can get another set of gifts from each alt you have. Also ArenaNet has stated that the final legendary you make is bind on equip, so whoever creates a legendary is free to send it to someone else or try to sell it.

It’s still a case that if you want a third legendary weapon, another character that someone put a lot of time into must lose out. Maybe your alt, maybe someone else’s character.

Though them being more powerful is only true if your build uses Power/Toughness/Vitality. If you don’t, then you’re stuck with exotics because that’s the only stat combination they come with. Which just makes things worse for condition builds, which already have a problems operating in a group.

The stats on gw2db or wherever you got those stats from are really inaccurate.
http://i.imgur.com/watmM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eajed.jpg

gabo.6721:

There is only as much gear treadmill as you want it have.

Right now, my sights are on Rare stuff [yellow] because they are much easier to get and i only need 2 kinds… a MF set and a general usage set with the stats i find useful.

After that, i’m set.

If i want that minuscule benefit of going for exotic, then it’ll just be another goal. not like i HAVE to reach the pinnacle of min-max in a game that is more about team-play and (supposed~) gear-balanced sPvP… you know… unlike some other MMOs.

I normally just lurk, but the way you’re calling out this issue is pretty undeserved given that you’re talking about a blip of difference while assuming all players are just here to min-max.

I wouldn’t call being able to 4v1 people miniscule. Without my exotic set advantage this wouldn’t be possible.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

90% of us playing LIKE THE GRIND

Do you have any evidence for this claim ?

The worst part about the gear treadmill is that I’m hearing that Legendary weapons have higher stats than exotics. And that to make one, you need items that can only be acquired through world completion. You get two of these items for world completion. Which means each character can make at most two legendary weapons, to make more another character needs to go without.
The only classes that could fill all their weapon slots with legendary weapons are staff eles and rifle engineers.

Really off topic but let me clarify that.
Legendaries are 100% cosmetic, they have the same stats as exotics.
The 2 world completion gifts are ACCOUNT bound. So if you are insane enough to try to craft more than 2 legendaries you can get another set of gifts from each alt you have. Also ArenaNet has stated that the final legendary you make is bind on equip, so whoever creates a legendary is free to send it to someone else or try to sell it.

As for what Reaper said, I don’t know anyone who said the reason they want to play GW2 is because they love grinding. In fact it’s the opposite, everyone I know who plays the game says one of the reasons they are playing GW2 and not WoW is because ArenaNet said that grinding would be optional and for cosmetics only, and they are going to be very disappointed when they see how much grinding is required to get equal stat gear.

Kosh.6473:

The OP seem to be a PVPer at his core. He doesnt like the idea of crafting out each piece for each build. I am an explorer first then PVEr then a PVPr. Hell I only know of the gear off of the karma venders. Some of my gear is yellow text is that the gold you speak of? What color is exotic?

I want best in slot gear to be GRAFTED only whether it be for looks or stats. I don’t want a token system like other games have. Ide like to be able to just graft and gather components if thats all i wanna do to make money…

I enjoy all aspects of the game, but this isn’t about me. This is about the people who are stuck for weeks, maybe over a month, in a gear treadmill just to get on the same playing field as other 80s.

Exotic gear has an orange color, here’s an example of the armor sets I use for farming and what I use for WvW.

I realized I didn’t even include the price for runes and a sigil in my calculations. But this ranges from 10 silver to 6g depending on what set you want. The full rune set for my MF gear is about 1.5G at current market value, but the set I want for my WvW gear would put me back 6G. And there’s no real way to farm for it, unless you want to spend week farming elementals hoping for a lucky lodestone drop, then doing it 5 more times for the other 5. That’s how rare they are.

Illushia.3721:

You don’t have to insult me by saying that I don’t understand something, when I clearly do, just because I don’t agree with you.

Good day sir/ma’am.

You insinuated that 40 gold in materials is only really 10 gold because you get magical orichalcum and ectoplasm that rains from the sky.
You insinuated that just because you and me get something easily, it must be easy for the 99% of the playerbase that is barely making 1-2 gold per day as well! And yes, that 1-2 gold includes the ecto and orichalcum and T6 mats they get towards their exotics.

This means either you clearly don’t understand the issue at hand here or you’re just trolling to make yourself feel better. Either way you’re not contributing to the thread. I just gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you are not trolling.

Illushia.3721:

But you’re still looking at it in “This costs this much always”.

If someone farms their gear, it costs much less, for a few reasons.

1) You’re making money in the process. If you’re out farming, are you reeeeeeeeeeeeally going to pass up that event over there? You’ll make exp, karma, and money.

2) Gear can, and -does-, drop out in the world. I’ve only gotten two exotics(And I couldn’t use them because they were the wrong armor type), but they do drop. That’s money you wouldn’t have made.

3) By farming mats, that armor effectively doesn’t cost you anything. Yes, “You could have sold those on the TP so you’re losing money” but you can’t really lose money you never had in the first place. It’s cost-neutral because that money was never in your pocket. Are those mats worth more to you as money, or as gear? If you’re farming gear, they’re obviously worth more to you as gear than they are as money, so the gear doesn’t cost as much as you make it out to seem.

So, really, that 40g set of gear, even for the most expensive items, is really only going to cost you 10g or so, after taking into account drops, farming, materials, events, and everything else.

10g isn’t so bad at all.

You’re missing a very very very crucial point here. Making money and getting crafting materials is both an investment of time. It takes a lot of time getting all of the components together whether you farm them, stumble into them, or buy them.

Let me try to put it differently so it’s easier to understand for you.

Tomorrow, instead of putting stuff in your bank, sell everything you get on the trading post. Sell all the ecto you get from yellows, sell all the orichalcum you mine. Then at the end of the day, look at how much progress you really made.

Bottom line is this is not a “couple of days” of work for anyone playing now starting from scratch.

Illushia.3721:

The Powerful blood and the Ectoplasm are by far the most expensive parts of those, though. The Ancient logs were about 8c each last night, so they’re almost negligible, as well as some of the leather and stuff along the way.

Powerful blood can be replaced by another stat-item(Like ancient bones, for Carrion(vit/cond/power) or vicious claw(power/prec/MF)) which are MUCH MUCH cheaper.

And Ectos can be gotten for free by breaking items down.

It’s expensive, yes. But it doesn’t -have- to be, and it doesn’t have to be a chore, either.

If you’re willing to wait a couple of days, you can be in full exotics in no time. And if you don’t wait, and you go into WvW and get flattened, then tbh, it’s your fault. Going somewhere not being prepared is never the fault of the guy who’s flattening you because your gear is a few levels behind and mostly greens.

Most people are not making 40g or 40g in materials in “a couple of days” I managed to get it easily because I took advantage of the trading post before it had a chance to settle.

It may have been easy for you and me, but 40g is still a metric ton for the vast majority of the player base.

Illushia.3721:

Well, even if you were going to straight up BUY exotics, they’re only about 2g~ each for armor. Weapons can get pricier, but if you’re willing to settle for a yellow 80 weapon, you’re only losing out on maybe … 50 weapon DPS at most. Which really isn’t much.

And then you only have to keep it for a few days while you farm some gold.

There’s even crafters(I do it on my server) who will make armor and weapons for free(tips are nice!) If you give them the mats for it, so you can get armor and weapons for next to nothing if you’re smart about it.

Usually the exotics themselves cost about the same as the materials to buy them either a bit less or a bit more, but not enough to be significant. Some weapons are sold at a significantly higher price which drives the price up for buying a full set of exotic gear a bunch, but I did my math assuming people would be smart about it and just either gather or buy the mats off the TP then get someone to craft the stuff for them because this is what I did for my character and.

This doesn’t change the value of the gear though, or the effort required to gather all the required materials. I added it all up for a full set of gear and it adds up to this

Glob of Ectoplasm x 55
Orichalcum Ore x 222
Ruby Orb x 25
Powerful Blood x 35
Ancient Wood Log x 30
Gossamer Scrap x 74
Spool of Gossamer Thread x 130

This isn’t what I would get for one of my own characters, but this is what I found to be by far the most popular set of stats.

You would save 9-10 gold getting carrion armor/weapons and Chrysocola jewelry but people really want that DPS gear. And you’d still be down 30 gold.

Illushia.3721:

This honestly really only matters in WvW. And not for long, because exotics and yellow items are fairly easy. I didn’t even have to farm, or buy, anything except a few fine mats that I was lacking, because I leveled up my crafting while I was leveling up.

All it takes is a little planning ahead. It’s just like life, if you don’t plan ahead, then don’t be surprised if you have to pay a little extra when you get where you’re going.

Easy for some people, not for others.

If I’m just playing for the sake of making money, I make about 5G per day, and this is a lot more than most people. When spending time on the trading post I’ve gotten this up to 10G or even 20G in a day but I don’t consider abusing the trading post to be a fun way to spend my time. My favorite thing to do is WvW and if I spend the day doing that I’m lucky if I end up with 1G at the end of the day.

My main is taken care of, but thinking about what it would take to get my alt on an even playing field made me not want to play that character anymore. That 40g(or 40g materials I gather myself) will take a looong time to get, and during that time I won’t be able to spend money on anything else or it’ll set me back that much.

Nate Gray.9241:

Anyway, it’s only ‘40g’ worth of components if you buy 40g worth of components. Otherwise, get out there and get the materials yourself, it saves lots of money and you also contribute to the community this way.

It’s still 40g worth of components if you gather them yourself because you’re consuming materials that you could have sold for 40g on the trading post, meaning you’re losing 40g either way you put it.

Most people aren’t able to earn 20g or 20g worth of materials per day.

Nate Gray.9241:

No, it’s not. You don’t seem to be quite getting it. That’s not hard to do at all. If you want to have a new set of armor for every circumstance and absolutely require that it’s the best available, you’re going to have to work for it. How is that unfair? If you want to be that versatile, get an exotic set for your main build and stick with gold sets for your situational builds. The gold sets are MORE than functional for gameplay, and are like a single digit % less powerful than exotic versions. It’s not a huge gap.

You’re asking that you just get the best of everything you could ever want in the game, right away, and you think Anet’s the one being unreasonable?

Please don’t reply if you don’t read the whole post and don’t have anything to add. All of those concerns you have have been addressed in the OP. Let me add that I got a full set of exotic gear on my main within the first week of launch, but a lot has changed since then. I was in the process of leveling up an alt to level 80 but I stopped after doing the math and realizing how expensive it would be to get gear.

I hate repeating myself but here you go, just for you: This is not about getting the best everything in the game, this is about being on an even playing field at level 80. This is about playing the game the way Colin Johanson envisioned it. This is about playing the game without a gear treadmill and having fun/

(continued)

This is what I would need for my alt to cross the advancement gap between getting to level 80 and getting even stat gear:

Glob of Ectoplasm x 55
Orichalcum Ore x 222
Ruby Orb x 25
Powerful Blood x 35
Ancient Wood Log x 30
Gossamer Scrap x 74
Spool of Gossamer Thread x 130

This adds up to over 40 gold worth of materials going by the recent trading post rates(before it went down)

This is the “easiest” set of even stat gear in terms of time and money investment to obtain. You can add another 5.5 gold to that if I want the backpack with a jewel too.
This obviously creates a huge wall for most of the players in the game. I don’t want to go through the treadmill and grind all of that out just to get my character on the same level as other characters. Since the game was advertised for having the long term grinding only exist for prestige gear, I don’t understand why it has to take so long to get basic non-prestige gear.

Hopefully these observations are clear enough to illustrate the need for a different system to get even stats at max level.

There are probably dozens of ways to do this. One option could be to keep the current crafted exotic as a prestige set that takes a long time or a lot of money to obtain an create a more reasonable alternative with some new method of obtaining the recipes.
Another method would be to introduce a new dungeon token that you get from story mode dungeons that is universal across all dungeons, these tokens could then be exchanged for the level 80 exotics with the same very common skin you get from the rare gear at dungeon vendors so it would be used for stats only.
I’m sure there are many other solutions to the issue and some of them could be a lot better than what I suggested. In any case I really hope a solution is implemented sooner rather than later so we can get read of the now mandatory gear treadmill and start having fun and grinding for cosmetics only if people want to.

Between rare exotic skins, cultural skins, dungeon skins, etc etc are already a huge incentive for people to work towards cool things on the long term, so please let everyone play on an even playing field at level 80 by letting people get gear with the same stats as other people in a reasonable amount of time.

If you’re reading this topic and have another idea for improving this area of the game please respond with your ideas, and thanks for reading this much, it turned out a bit lengthier than I intended

Right now one of the biggest turnoffs for the game is the huge grind that stands between hitting level 80 and getting the gear that puts you on an even playing field with everyone else.

This thread is only about non-cosmetic non-prestige non-special gear. Some people think it takes too long to get the special cosmetic prestige skins from dungeons takes too long but that is a completely different conversation. This thread is about getting people on an even playing field in terms of stats and the enormous grind it requires after the recent changes to the game.

When I hit level 80 and got my set of exotics I noticed my damage in WvW nearly trippled and I could win fights 1v4 easily on several occasions. Now that more people are getting exotic sets things are evening out. Unfortunately, due to the huge increase in grinding required to get a set of basic exotics, it will be extremely hard for players who are just hitting level 80 or new players to get on an even playing field.

Here is a famous segment from a blog post put up by Colin Johanson titled “Is it fun?” a few months ago

When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.

But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun

This is a great example of the philosophy that got people to want to play Guild Wars 2. Stepping away from the classic MMO formula by promising to remove the gear treadmill for character advancement and instead moving the long term goals to cool looking prestige gear is what drew a lot of people to the game.

But then why does the gear treadmill still exist for basic character advancement from non-prestige gear?

(continued)

45 minutes later we do I run I have never do before in my life and I get 2 silver instead of 26.

First run of the day again and got a reduced reward still.

Someone said it was related to doing dungeons before the patch hit but the 10 hours or so before the dungeon patch I was doing WvW and I was sleeping when the patch hit.

All female because I like pretty girls doing cool things like killing dragons.

They’re prestige skins. Dual wielding means you are getting twice the amount of prestige weapons to show off.

Just did another dungeon several hours later, rewards are still neutered.

Artorous.8573:

Cerise.9045:

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Way ahead of you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-GW2-IS-becoming-a-Grind-MY-thoughts/page/3#post155137

You could try making the 50 gold by playing the game. Jon stated earlier today that dungeons are designed to be one of the best ways to make money. You get 13 silver for completing a dungeon now minus whatever you lose on repairs. That’s 385 dungeon runs to get your exotic gear. Does that sound reasonable to you?

With 2 hours of farming ore/lumber I made just over 10 gold. Now, that came from ore/wood/gems/coral and of course mob drops. I then proceeded to buy low/sell high for some of the items I’ve noticed on the TC for another 2 gold. So in just over 2 hours I made 12 gold. Yeah, ANet is really forcing me to use the Gem Store to get my gold. Ohhh, again, you just want to do 1 of 100 things to get your gold then get mad when you can’t do it anymore. By golly batman, you’re right! They are forcing YOU to use the Gem Store, sadly I’m not you so I don’t have to do that.

You farmed 334 orichalcum worth of mats by gathering for 2 hours? Did you find a stack of 30 rich orichalcum nodes or something?

Or you got 11000 mithril.

This problem seems to be fairly widespread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Diminishing-Return-Is-Broken-For-Dungeon

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Dungeons-diminishing-returns

Nuorus.8415:

Make the dungeon sets easy to get, many people will have em, sets will loose their unique feeling. Keep the sets out of everyones reach (atleast slow em to get those) and the sets will keep their unique feeling.

I personaly don’t like ANY of those dungeon heavy armors so I put some lvl40 armor skin on my lvl78 exotic set. Just lacking a cool helmet, may have found it but it costs like 1,5g. Weapons got lvl60 exotic skins (legionnaire). My armor is combination of multiple sets as I find those different parts to complete the armor better than the orginal sets.

So overall no need for dungeons nor for grinding, have best stats (oh boy those are something like 5 stats worse than the best ones), have the best looks.

Little repeat: ( Hard to get sets will feel more unique )

The correct way to please both sides is to have the unique special looking skins be hard to get, and have less cool looking max stat gear be easy to get so people don’t have to grind forever to be on an even playing field with each other.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Cerise.9045:

Exotics have better stats than rares so they’re not cosmetic gear.

Right now a full set would cost around 50 gold which is about $220 in gems.

Jon Peters himself said dungeons are supposed to be one of the most efficient ways to get money. So if you found a way to make 50 gold with less of a time investment than running 500 dungeons you should probably report it as an exploit so that so they can fix it.

I’m aware that exotics have better stats than rares. I have about 1/3rd of the globes I need for my crafted exotics, but I’m short on the raw materials. I could buy the rest, but it would probably cost 5-10 gold, and I’ve only got about 2 at the moment. I average about 1 to 1.5 gold per evening, but I only play around 2-3 hours on week nights.

I’ve only been 80 since last Saturday.

There’s definitely a little hill to climb as far as exotics go, but it’s not nearly as ridiculous as you’re painting it. I guess if you absolutely cannot stand the crafted exotics for whatever reason then yeah, you’ve definitely got a longer road ahead of you.

I got my main geared before ArenaNet decided making money by playing the game is bad. Right now I’m just trying to get my alt set up with basic gear but it’s almost hopeless.

If you have some amazing way to farm money that is more efficient than than dungeons, which again are supposed to be one of the best ways to get money according to Jon peters, please share it.

Just did my 2nd dungeon run, a completely different dungeon, 2 hours later.

Got 2 silver.

I had to pay 5 silver in repair costs.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Cerise.9045:

Wasn’t guild wars 2 supposed to break this curse? GW1 did, and GW2 was on track to doing so until they systematically eliminated all conventional methods to get crafting materials and/or money to get basic gear in a reasonable amount of time.

Define “basic gear” and “reasonable”? I had full rares 5 minutes after hitting 80, at the whopping cost of 1.5 gold for some extra mats I needed to craft them.

I won’t deny that there are some atrocious (and baffling) grinds in the game, but they’re all for cosmetic items, so they’re fairly irrelevant from a balance perspective. It’s more of a “why would anyone ever want to do that” situation.

Exotics have better stats than rares so they’re not cosmetic gear.

Right now a full set would cost around 50 gold which is about $220 in gems.

Jon Peters himself said dungeons are supposed to be one of the most efficient ways to get money. So if you found a way to make 50 gold with less of a time investment than running 500 dungeons you should probably report it as an exploit so that so they can fix it.

Vesper.6709:

Then I will say this NOW, after you have done all these story modes/exp all you have LEFT is the rewards from dong them swiftly and skillfully.

You mean the rewards that get diminished as if to say “quit being good at dungeons/video games.” If you manage to complete dungeons fast.

Right!

What ANET should have done: Not nerf dungeons at all – buff the “harder routes” with more token rewards.

What they did: Make dungeons a chore. Not a game mechanic. They’re pushing it to “Once a day dungeon grind” if you don’t wish to dedicate a full 10 hours to grind dungeons 13 times to ensure you don’t push the “anti-dungeon-farm” threshold.

What they SHOULD have done was add a set of exotic armor that is actually attainable in a reasonable amount of time but doesn’t look as cool as the dungeon prestige armor.

All they have to do to fix this whole issue it to give the ugly yellow armor on the dungeon armor the same stats as the prestige armor.

SirMoogie.9263:

SpectacularYak.6518:

…

Have you read this:

http://www.mmorpgguys.com/blogs/BadSpock/032011/21585_Linear-Statistical-Progression-An-affliction-that-has-ruined-MMOs-from-the-getgo

I’ve been posting it frequently as it keeps coming up as relevant to the discussion.

Wasn’t guild wars 2 supposed to break this curse? GW1 did, and GW2 was on track to doing so until they systematically eliminated all conventional methods to get crafting materials and/or money to get basic gear in a reasonable amount of time.

nords.2163:

The stats from dungeon gear is no better than any other exotic in game. I myself have 0 pieces of dungeon exotics but have 2 fulls sets of exotic gear (tough/vit/power set and power/crit/magic find set). They came relatively easily but are not as “cool looking” as most dungeon sets. Working on my Arah explorable set and nightmare set now, will take a while, but that is okay with me. Nice to have something to work for and not feel “finished with the game” 1 month into it. So far this is only 1 80, I have alts I cant wait to make and play and there have been no expansions yet, and there are still many point on the map to see and go to still. (crystal desert, ring of fire, northern shiverpeaks etc)

Please share your secrets for making this money. I’m currently using the method described by Jon Peters as “one of the best ways to make money in the game” and making about 13 silver per dungeon run, and I don’t really want to run a dungeon 500 times to gear my alt out in basic “not cool looking” armor.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Wow….

Guys you do know this is a VIDEO game right?!?

If a video game is making you this mad, how about you just don’t play? It’s a video game.

OP no offense trying to help you out, it honestly sounds like you just need to take a break. You hit 80 in 3 days…. Again it’s just a video game, no reason to equate a video game to real life references of killing yourself… Or choosing which way to burn to death… Seriously.. If the game is making you THAT unhappy then don’t play it, or take a break! I’m still blown away by how people let this consume their lives so much that they try and equate doing something in a video game to being lit on fire….

Seriously there Are a lot of people having a good time, including myself (call me a fanboy, shouldnt be afraid of expressing our consumer views on the forums… That works both ways op) stop coming on to the forums and flaming it up trying to ruin everyone else’s good time. If its really making you rage this much then stop playing.

I remember a couple of month ago when people were still excited about GW2 trying to break the mold, what changed to make you become complacent to playing another WoW clone?

Vladia.2731:

Copy and Pasted from another topic:

Exotic armor should NOT be easy to get. Everyone who is complaining that the “easy way” of getting exotic prestige armor got fixed is in the wrong. So you can’t run the easy path anymore to get your exotic armor easy. That is intended. If anyone has played GW1 and remembers Obby armor, or 15k armor you would see the dungeons in a different light.

Too many people are focused on the now, now, now. I want my rewards NOW. If I don’t get them NOW I’m going to bekitten It’s pathetic that everyone has been conditioned to be able to get everything they want when they want it. No one has to work anymore for anything. I for one am ecstatic about having to work for my exotic skins. It gives me a purpose to play the game.

Stop rushing. Start playing.

P.S. Much like someone else said. Crafted Exotics have the same stats that dungeon exotics do. They might not have the stat spread that you want, but they have the same level of stats. Dungeon gear is purely cosmetic. Stop treating it like an easy to obtain set. It’s not SUPPOSED to be.

Exotic armor is not prestige armor.

Exotic armor has higher stats than rare armor.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Cerise.9045:

This is exactly why people are upset, the game has turned from being different into yet another WoW clone sans the raids. The gear treadmill is absolutely horrendous and has to go. The only reason for it to even be there is to get people to spend real money on gems.

Why you think that? GW1, it was the same thing. They merely expanded on ectoplasm and 15K armor, and offered more ways to achieve it. Albeit through crafting, Karma or Dungeon. You don’t need this stuff to be effective. Balance is contained in structured pvp as it’s seperate. It’s not like WoW were you get 1-shotted by someone who did raids 15 hours a day. skill over time investment.

You’re thinking about prestige gear. Obsidian armor and 15k armor were hard to get because they only existed for the better looks. The cheaper armor had exactly the same stats and you could get it before even hitting level 20.

Prestige gear isn’t the issue here, the issue is getting the cheaper gear with the same stats. Right now there’s no cheaper alternative with the same stats as “prestige” gear, everything is a massive grind.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Correction: you do not need to grind for the stats. Dungeon gear is cosmetic only.

Durzlla.6295:

You do realize that they never said thered be no grind right? There’s no grind for best STATED gear

Correct, was the original intention of the game. Except it turned out to be completely untrue.

The grind required for max stat gear right now is absolutely atrocious, it’s worse than raiding 2 nights per week every week.

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Way ahead of you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-GW2-IS-becoming-a-Grind-MY-thoughts/page/3#post155137

You could try making the 50 gold by playing the game. Jon stated earlier today that dungeons are designed to be one of the best ways to make money. You get 13 silver for completing a dungeon now minus whatever you lose on repairs. That’s 385 dungeon runs to get your exotic gear. Does that sound reasonable to you?

FarFarAway.6579:

I agree. Progression (treadmill) is what makes an RPG what it is. A well-masked treadmill is even better, but there has to be some kind of progression. Well-designed endgame progression will take months to complete. The current formula in GW2 just isn’t quite right (yet).

GW2 was shaping up to be a great game WITHOUT the gear treadmill. GW1 didn’t have one and it worked out fine. ArenaNet stated numerous times that GW2 wouldn’t have a gear treadmill either and that was one of the things that was great about this game because that is a huge step upwards from the mind numbing grind of EQ/WoW/etc. But at the last minute they decided to go the WoW route.

3 Weeks in and every change has been to make the game more grindy and more WoW-like.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Gray.9650:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Well it’s an MMO, it’s supposed to go on forever. But I am not sure about that. First of all because I know of no MMO that is truly fun and meaningful after reaching it’s end game.

stopped reading right there

first of all, if you label your product with a specific term to generate more sales, you better deliver on what that label implies

furthermore, just because YOU find the endgame in the typical mmos not fun doesn’t mean someone else can’t like it. there are plenty of people still playing wow – and even daoc is still running. repeating stuff that people spout after they fell for the hype and have buyers remorse and/or simply didn’t like the game don’t help your argument.

as for the nostalgia, that could fill a whole thread alone. let’s just say the fact that there IS nostalgia related to these games says something. for the rest it’s probably suffice to say “you should have been there”.

Nobody decides what a MMO is or what it needs to have. Guild Wars itself was a game that tried to transcend the barriers. Lots of peoples who are “Sandbox 4life” don’t even see games like WoW as real MMOs. Many of these of players think fullheartedly, that raids and instanced end game content is complete contradictory to what UO M59 and MUDs of all tried to do.

The thing is – Nobody is entitled to say what a MMO has to be. Or that a game which tries to break new bold or create new foundations have to deliver on the same things like other games have.
It’s no secret that Guild Wars 2 was never meant to satisfy people who wanted the WoW replacements. They said they would expand on Guild Wars. They would offer MMO features like auction housing, persistent large scale pvp, repeatable-long-term-enganged dungeons and lots of events that would run at random times throughout the world, while still retaining quite a lot of the philosophies that made Guild Wars 1 great.

We knewe this back in 2007, from the initial PR slash. Thing is that a lot of people and websites have taken this information and tweaked it to sound like the game would deliver something else.

You are right about plenty of people still playing WoW. You got lots of options if you want that. LOTRO, TERA, SWTOR, Aion. Conan. You got lots of great games that you can play for free that are like that.

You don’t have a whole lot of games that play like GW2. You got some that still has public quests, but none that does them as well as GW2 (in my opinion at least!). I ask you, why should GW2 offer what all those gamers offer? Why can’t GW2 not just have its own feature set?

I think its fine that people want WoW, and raids. It’s not for me anymore. Thats why I play wow until expansion caps, and then stop playing. I grow bored of battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons and raids. its not just the emphasis on carrot-on-a-stick-uber-items, but also just the outdated combat systems.

GW2 is different and a fresh breathe of air. it has no monthly fee, of course the expectations and target audience is different. GW2 is a different kind of MMO. It doesnt need to offer the same end game as others. And honestly, is WoWs end game so much better? I know tons of people who play it, who complain and dislike it all the time. At the end of the day, I think most people linger on in these games because of their friends. Sign me personally up as one of those that prefer this end game, compared to traditional themeparkistic MMOs. I like this direction.

This is exactly why people are upset, the game has turned from being different into yet another WoW clone sans the raids. The gear treadmill is absolutely horrendous and has to go. The only reason for it to even be there is to get people to spend real money on gems.

I just did my first run of Ascalonian Catacombs in several days.

None of the people in the group have done the dungeon recently, and yet 2 of us got a drastically reduced reward from the dungeon. Namely the silver and exp rewards only half of what they are supposed to be.

Alice.8694:

Nothing you said has anything to do with what I asked you to prove.
Which you cannot, because they didn’t ever claim vanity/prestige wouldn’t be hard to achieve. (or in your words, a grind.)
Instead you babble on about the price of another prestige set. Prestige just means hard to obtain and worth showing off and surprisingly a large sum of money comes under that category. It doesn’t get changed just because it’s something you think it should something that is easier to obtain.

Over sensationalism because you’re butthurt about having the repetitive CoF abuse to get easy prestige armor fixed. Yes, fixed… Not nerfed because it wasn’t intended for you to do it in the first place.

The amusing thing is, because you all abused that bug… CoF armor is now the least desirable. Because it is now the most common, and who wants to look like a bunch of scrubs abusing an exploit?

You sort of missed the entire point of the thread.

The problem isn’t that prestige gear is hard to get, that part is fine.

The problem with the game right now is that there is simply no reasonable way to get the non-prestige gear in a reasonable amount of time.