Guild Wars 2

Hvaran.6327:

maybe make it 7s will be better without abusing possibility, but even 5s won’t it that OP.

Don’t mess with cooldowns of on swap sigils, Engineers will for sure be getting 12 clears a minute if a sigil like that cleanses every 5 seconds. Guaranteed.

Rym.1469:

How Empathic Bond could be visible? It’s kind of already when you tab between the player and the pet. It’s not really necessary IMO, as you can clearly see when they’re transfered.

The only thing you could possibly change is add a timer – BUT if you do this to EB, you have to add a timer to multiple other things and… it would be even harder to follow.

And, as a bonus – don’t you think that the change to FT would overbuff the AA a little bit? In my opinion, it’s far better to greatly increase the damage of Flame Burst’s explosion since it takes a good amount of skill to actually pull off against moving opponents.

Another thing – such things like Hide in Plain Sight are meant to be surprise. If you add some kind of visibility to it, it kills whole reason why people would take it (tbh, they don’t anymore). You also skipped similar things like Cloaking Device or things like Transmutation on Engineer, Balanced Stance trait proc on Warrior…

You see, I get you want to make this game competitive etc. by making everything visible…

But this game’s UI isn’t ready for it, same with mechanics. You may end up with everything visible under portrait, but you won’t be able to see what is actually important.

I feel like you thought it was proposed Empathic Bond would be an icon or something.

Vee Wee meant a visible particle effect on the Ranger and Pet when it procs. A flash of light with a sound file would be all it takes.

Edit: Also, no need for an icon for Hide in Plain Sight, or Cloaking Device.

But CC negating passives really could use an icon.

Solori.6025:

So
Soooo
Salty.
Like this is bad for your health salty

Attempting to read his rambling, it’s like:

• One part of un-originally tossing back the exact same jabs. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJM5AOdnhzs

• One part of arbitrary as fak / meaningless suggestions that would suit nothing, except his whims for how the classes should be.

• One part furiously attacking whatever build the last player who killed him in Hotjoin was.

• One part trying to rebuild the illusion of being a knowledgeable player, which is shattered into about 2,000,000 pieces. If only salt could be used as an adhesive…

I’m pretty sure that there’s no way to retroactively assign MMR based on how good somebody is on each profession.

It makes sense that new MMR variables like the profession specific ones you’re talkin about would start at base value and not affect your overall MMR until you get some games going, after the patch.

Merely making an educated guess, though.

Azure.8670:

Chaith.8256:

Azure.8670:

I agree with everything except the axe 5. Moving wouldnt really change much, instead you should be able to cancel it into a power spike type attack, either a melee hit or axe 4 minus the pull

Moving would change everything. Lmao.

You could cripple people and basically whirling axe on their face, and them unable to retaliate with projectiles. You could also be able to move out of AoE and still keep the reflect going.

yeeeaaaaa no. I mean, if people want it, then its cool by me, but it seems worthless. Would you have full, regular movement speed or be slower? if youre slower, then its dumb, if you have regular speed, people will complain its a chessy crippling moving reflect. I dunno

Yeah it doesn’t cripple. But we agree now that it would change things significantly.

Azure.8670:

I agree with everything except the axe 5. Moving wouldnt really change much, instead you should be able to cancel it into a power spike type attack, either a melee hit or axe 4 minus the pull

Moving would change everything. Lmao.

You could cripple people and basically whirling axe on their face, and them unable to retaliate with projectiles. You could also be able to move out of AoE and still keep the reflect going.

Why should points be balanced

Points have nothing to do with anything – there’s not even a single good reason why they should be on the scoreboard. They are actually harmful because often people learning the game might prioritize points over being able to rotate even 3 seconds faster.

PierPiero.9142:

but cele rifle has lower armour .. i die much faster … but perhaps i should use it more

Less toughness, but more vitality and healing. The survival is overall more solid on Cele when you factor in you can actually peel for yourself.

coglin.1867:

simply here to be salty?

Lopez.7369:

If I were in charge of balance, I would make Healing Turret remove three or four conditions and nerf engineer’s condition application a tad — maybe by making Incendiary Powder last two or three seconds by default.

But those are really changes at the margin. Anyone who thinks any class is dramatically broken is very likely blaming the game for a personal skill issue.

Unfortunately, the balance between healing skills is … really unbalanced. Healing Turret pulls out much better sustain, utility (with the knockback) and the condition removal. Buffing Healing Turret would just make the other ones even worse in comparison, choices are ideal.

uberkingkong.8041:

robertul.3679:

They should add a cap to the number of water bottles engineer carry in their hobosacks.
Too many splashes!!

Yes that water splash is pretty crazy, its like the engineer is an ele… They are not ele’s, they don’t deserve to be able to cleanse conditions just as good as an ele, yet do crazy damage, knockbacks, and be able to handle crazy amounts of dps. Just add fear to there kitten nal and I wont know what else they could ask for.

Lifestealer.4910:

Its hilarious that people think celestial rifle, a build that is weaker in 1v1 in almost all situation compared to a rabid p/p or p/s somehow needs a nerf. The build at best only gets 6-9 might compared to an ele or warrior who can get 25 easily. IP also hits for noodles and the entire build is extremely predictable having many counter plays.

If you ever lose to this build 1v1, you got outplayed really hard.

Ya… Speaking of which, I lost a 1v2, my team couldn’t take him 1v1, he pretty much went far and dominated.

Seems to be a trend huh? The far guy. Is it an engineer? Yes. Don’t even bother than, because he will 1v1 you 1v2 and 1v3 you. Overpowered freaks, needs some balancing.

Splish splash, all my conditions instantly gone! Actually, meta Engineers with healing turret have about 6-8 condition removal per minute, with 15-20 seconds devoid of any condition removal, and meta Cantrip Eles realistically have 22-26 per minute.

Splish splash, son. Cleansing as good as an Ele? Ez.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

I may be missing something, but can you please explain how you reconcile the bolded statements (one of them is from another thread)?

Josh Davis.6015:

We’re not enabling dishonor immediately because we want to make sure that all of our systems work properly on live after release. We’ve done thorough testing internally, but there’s always a chance that the thousands of players who log in on December 2 might find a new interesting way to break things. We want to make sure that players aren’t awarded dishonor for anything outside of their power.

Rest assured, as soon as we’re confident that the systems are working properly, we will turn dishonor on.

Josh Davis.6015:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

does this means, once we got disconnected due to server issues, we cannot rejoin the match?

If you get disconnected you can still reconnect, but you will receive dishonor regardless.

It seems they kinda contradict each other…

You misunderstand. Arenanet doesn’t want players to receive dishonor for server issues on their end. Lol. This means critical errors / broken things that normally come with patch day.

Arenanet can’t spare people dishonor when all it takes it to alt-f4 or reset the internet router to make it impossible to tell a leaver from someone who got booted off the internet, out of their control.

unlucky.9285:

i really do not understand how it was over powered for necro to have dhuumfire but its perfectly fine for engies to have basically the same thing and its not even grand master….

You don’t understand, mostly because cross-profession-direct-comparisons without the context of.. the rest of the profession, are impossible to understand. You won’t necessarily see many similarities between even similar mechanics.

Burning, Bleeding, Confusion, these are strong, but..

Burning, Bleeding, Terror, Torment was a little cray cray all at the same time. People were melting in 4 seconds..

Aberrant.6749:

glock.6590:

Arachnid.4062:

Then there is Engineer’s healing turret, the strongest heal per second in the game. Also one of the shortest cast times.

This, if they added longer cast time, D/P thief vs engineer could be a reasonable match up. I dont care about incendiery powder, every class has attacks that cant be dodged but not every class has a stupid heal that heals u to full and is nearly impossible to interupt.

A thief complaining about a heal that’s nearly impossible to interrupt… while having one that is totally impossible to interrupt… >.>

Yeah I don’t get the tears over not being able to reliably interrupt Healing Turret. Why should you be able to?

• Healing Signet, Signet of Restoration, Withdraw, Shelter. 4/8 Professions use completely un-interruptible heals. Shelter being maybe an exception if you get really outplayed. By virtue of having no viable un-interruptible heal, the Engineer is 5th of 8 professions in difficulty to heal-interrupt. Lmao. More tears. The odds are, your healing skill is harder to interrupt than Healing Turret, or you have many ways (mesmer) to cover the cast.

Arachnid.4062:

We can only hope that they will be able to sufficiently outplay the Abjured with actual coordination and good use of actual conquest roles (other than the “being good at everything” role which you are so fond of). But I expect at this point to see them succumb to the highly balanced kittenstorm of AoE spam and blast finishers you will through at them.

Totes. Because having a Guardian, Ele, and Warrior to sit on nodes, with a Thief/Mes roamer requires so much more coordination, and is such a different concept than two Eles sitting on nodes, and Engi/Engi(Necro)/Thief roaming.

Man, I sure hope that The Abjured’s inability to understand conquest roles is negated by all the blast finishers they got. Ha-ha…

Sol.4310:

Traits

• Tail Wind – Should work outside of combat. This will give rangers better mobility which is badly required.

• Trap potency – Also Removes Boons per pulse.
  This change is a must, currently Trap Ranger is forced to take 3 traps and loses any type of survival (Stun breaks, condition remove, invon).

• Invigorating Bond – Reduce to 15 seconds CD. Improve the heal to scale up to 2k with Compassion Training traited.

• Strider’s Defense – Change to Reflect’s projectile rather then destroys or this skill will never be used ever.

All these changes are required, every single weapon change I’ve stated I have tested with current good builds. None of these changes will make any of the weapons over powered. This won’t bring us back into the meta fully but it will help allot.

Yeah I agree with everything that you’re saying.

Also, Strider’s Defense actually needs to be changed how it functions, lol… currently it’s just impossible for me to play around, as a non-ranger attempting to use Ranger, at least..

I mean, blocking 20% of projectiles while you spam Sword1/Greatsword1?

How about 100% block to frontal projectiles cast from outside 600 range, while executing a melee attack? This way, you’d still get turned into a pincushion if you turned your back to run.

Arachnid.4062:

Hence why you see teams like Abjured running 2x double classes, with their players claiming this meta is great and everything is viable and balanced! LMAO

The Abjured’s comp is purely based on which subs could physically go to China. Not based on balance.

Do you think The Abjured’s comp is better with me subbing as a 2nd Engi, as opposed to Nos on Necro? Hell no. Sit down. I’ll be the first to admit that Engi/Necro is better than Engi/Engi for how The Abjured plays the game.

Also, running no Engies is viable. See: TCG comp – Thief, Mes, Guard, Ele, Warrior/Ranger depending on R O M.

Do you see how between just these two China teams, every profession is considered in the comps?

Seeing as how in the past, there’s always been a trashcan profession who you can’t carry to victory: IE, War, Ele. Ranger and Warrior and Mesmer are arguably the professions that are on the lower end of picks right this second, but clearly it’s a L2P issue if you can rock them and go to China.

Edit: so just to clarify, take any profession, l2p, build a team around it if necessary, and you can compete at the highest level. Not all professions are favored equally, nobody is claiming that, but it’s not imbalanced to the point where you can’t play what your main class is. For that reason, despite Eles and arguably Engies getting too many picks, cross profession, overall viability/balance is better than it’s ever been.

Also, Uberkingkong that splash of water that you encounter that seems to sustain Engineers, that’s from the Tear-Collection Turret. It’s cooldown is reset every time a Guardian cries on the forums.

uberkingkong.8041:

I have received 0 server lag at all. If its server lag it will affect EVERYONE. server goes down, everyone dc’s. server is slow everyone is slow.

I have received no lag from server.

Now if someone is dcing because they playing on NA server from argentina.. Why you put all those bad connection type people on my team? Are these people that dc those people trying to play NA from EU???

Ask yourself these kinds of questions.

Do you know what a critical error is?

It’s when you do something in-game like open a UI or perform some funny action, resulting in your game having to close.

This happens on, and around patch day, occasionally.

Nobody is purposefully putting Argentinians on your team, please, remove your tinfoil hat and continue with your life.

uberkingkong.8041:

Needs to be HARSH dishonor.

I’m so SICK of games like this.

BACK 2 BACK 4v5.
Just 5 minutes ago.

If your connection is bad.. DONT PLAY
If your going to leave soon.. DONT PLAY

Developers stop being easy on people that cause 4v5 games.

My record is SO bad because of this.

Also DO NOT allow people to switch professions during the game. I don’t care if they switch before game starts but not DURING the game.

You guys wonder why I’m so angry all the time. This game makes me so angry. Look at those games, terrible matchmaking. I’m stuck with 2 classes of same type, 1 game 3 classes of same type. Other team is PERFECT, DESTROYER type team… AS usual.

If you got your stuff ready, than IMPLEMENT it now, no reason to wait.

I feel like NOT PLAYING tPVP anymore because of this.

Ever heard of timing is everything?
Go ahead and implement your thing later… There may only be 50 people left playing, rather than IMPLEMENTING it now while you still have a bit more players left playing.

You think I ENJOY huge loss streaks. WRONG.

edit:

Gratz to have listened the wrong people like usually anet

+1 +thousand

Calm yourself.

Anet is simply not adding dishonor for the first couple days because that would possibly result in critical errors / crashes that are always associated with patch day, TO CAUSE DISHONOR.

They are being quite conscientious and proactive by delaying dishonor until the coast is clear.

If Solo Q gives you a stroke in between the couple days it takes for the critical errors/server instability to get busted, then please seek a doctor.

uberkingkong.8041:

It’s not really the turret engineers that really annoy me it’s the 1v2 1v3 never die engineers.

Too many blocks, there shield blocks should not count towards to holding or capping a node either.

They constantly splashing that water healing themselves making them too strong.

They deal too much damage for all that survivability that they have.

That rifle knockback needs a longer cooldown for how powerful it is.

Rocketboots needs a longer cooldown too and a longer cast time.

Guardian hammer banish takes 1 second so those skills need a 1 second cast time as well.

Engineers are too overpowered and needs balanced. Being able to be a bunker and deal insane amount of dps shouldn’t happen.

This needs more balance than those suppose eles and celestial ammy or whatever, I don’t see ANY problems with any ele’s. All the problems I see are with these engineers and the rangers.

That ranger knockback needs toning down too, it needs a 1 second cast time just like the guardian hammer banish.

That same kind of engineer can be used in Skyhammer matches too. Class that does it all, needs balancing because no other class can do it all too.

They heal too hard, they knockback too hard, they deal damage too hard, plus they drop turrets on you making them condi too hard. Too much stuff they do best, needs to be looked at and toned down appropriately.

Water splashes, them’s too strong. Rocket boots, too fast. Eles are fine l2p.

Aite.

Trust me, we kicked and screamed extremely hard when Kit Refinement was ruined for everybody. The Engineer playerbase was completely and utterly correct, of course – it’s taken a very fun and powerful trait into something that’s been nerfed into absolute oblivion, and is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING to use.

Your suggestion is welcomed, any improvements to the Tools GM level, as well.

robertul.3679:

Chaith.8256:

Also, just because you like to use Aura Share and try to 1v1, instead of using the condition removal GM trait, that doesn’t mean actual Eles can do that.

QFT.
Moving on! We all want our special snowflake builds to be good. But they are not.
I do not know what OP runs in PvP but it doesn’t seem that good.

Especially since he runs d/d cele in dungeons! And considers engineers(3rd dps from top or so) “condi spamgineers or a gimmick spike with a long cooldown”. What does this tell us? Serious lack of comprehension regarding both the main class but also other classes!
It’s hilarious when you think of it.

To quote a popular book: “Blessed are the casuals, for they will inherit the earth.”

“Spamgineer” is definitely a Nova Stiker trademarked word. Haha. He’s not the OP, though. He just wants to have everyone’s build revenge nerfed who crosses his path, and goes out of their way to keep him on respawn all game. (Oops!) Take his posts with a grain of salt though. He’s long since given up on gaining knowledge of the game, and instead just puts rage/revenge emotions in that gap, and writes from there.

Nova Stiker.8396:

• Gear Block needs to get nerfed. There is no reason why it is better than a Warriors shield block. Either change how the skill functions or increase the recharge.
• Incendiary Powder also needs to get nerfed, you already have good access to bleeding and confusion, even better than Mesmers. Hell, I’m sure there is plenty of Necromancers cursing engineers because they kept their burning ability.
• Reduce the immobilize duration of Net Shot to 1 second but reduce the after cast, allowing the engineer to react faster but in contrast, allows the target to recover faster, more risk/reward.
• Blunderbuss, reduce the recharge to 8 seconds, remove the bleeding.
• Overcharged Shot, increase the recharge to 20 seconds.
• Jump Shot, reduce the casting time to 3/4th of a second and remove the vulnerability application.
• Slick Shoes, reduce the recharge to 30 seconds, reduce knockdown to 1 second. Kinda copied right from Shocking Aura, each attacker can be affected by this only once every 1 second vs. 2 from Shock Aura.
• Transmute, move to Grandmaster minor trait, Energy Conversion Matrix move to Master minor trait. Sorry engineers, if you want free condition removal every 15 seconds you need to put more into it.

I do not mind Engineers dealing super high damage, I do mind them dealing high damage, a block every 16 seconds and plenty of condition spam. You can have one or the other, but not all.

---

As for Elementalist, to much burning, so much burning.
Reduce the amount of burning with Drakes Breath, Ring of Fire and Burning Speed.
Our sustain won’t be as horrible when we can’t just spam burning on a bunch of people. Force Ele’s to take a more offensive approach with skills/traits, surviving isn’t the elementalists problem, it’s surviving AND killing.

• Drake Breath, reduce burning from 3 to 2, obvious reasons, even with just 3 ticks, 9 seconds of burning is just broken AND can easily land on multiple people.
• Ring of Fire, reduce the burning from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Not that big of an issue but in the chaos of a team fight, 5 seconds on 4 people can be a serious issue.
• Burning Speed, reduce the blast radius to 180, the blast is to big for it’s own good. Aim and timing would do the skill justice.
• Cleansing Water, enough with the powerful condition removal. How about this, “Cleansing Water – Soothing Mist passive regeneration is twice as effective. When Soothing Mist ends on an ally, it slightly heals and removes a condition.” There, you can no longer spike off conditions and serves as a passive regeneration plus passive condition removal. For those that don’t math, even if Soothing Mist healing is twice as good it still doesn’t match Virtue of Resolve, even with an uncontrolled condition removal, it still wouldn’t be worth it, so a small heal on the end would be a must to call this a grandmaster trait.

Oh, here is the big one.
DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!
.
.
.
.
.
Sigil of Doom! Reduce the poison to 3 seconds, down from 6! The healing reduction from poison turns bunkers into super bunkers, this should have been nerfed last balance patch.

As always, your suggestions and posts truly delight me.

It was fun popping your poorly built Ele last night, with my Rifle & Slick Shoes Engineer. I don’t suppose that’s a coincidence that you propose to nerf every Rifle skill right after. Lmao.

Rifle and Slick Shoes are avoidable. Pro tip, it helps to bring things like stability and stun breaks when you fight a Rifle Engi. And no, using Arcane Shield randomly does not constitute as stunbreaking a key ability.

Also, just because you like to use Aura Share and try to 1v1, instead of using the condition removal GM trait, that doesn’t mean actual Eles can do that. It would severely displace Eles from the highly competitive level it is at now.

See: Phantas thread on how to intelligently shave Eles.

cheese.4739:

Chaith.8256:

Something 99999% of people don’t consider when looking at lightning Rod: Conjure Earth Shield.

The 3 procs lightning Rod on the 600 range dash

The 4 procs lightning Rod on everyone in a 600 radius with the AoE pull!

Wrecking Ball staff Ele:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKi2zwzBr0ABAW4AwBIBIeFsBSilqDA-TJBFwACuAA12foaZAAPAAA

Hm, I might play with the shield conjure, though it’s always felt waaaay clunky – like the Lightning Hammer, I struggle to use it against human foes.

Couple of questions about what you’ve done with the rest of the build:
I notice you completely lack blast finishers besides Eruption? You’ve got nice power, and high base crit chance from your runes, but will have pretty low fury uptime if you can’t regularly Eruption into a field. Is the cleanse/mobility from ER+LF worth it?
Also, in traits, your Air Major Master is Air Training (X). While I can see this being useful in a conjure build, two of the weapon CC skills are in Air Attunement, so I much prefer to take Aeromancer’s Alacrity (IX) for more frequent access to Static Field and Gust (with Windborne Speed’s condi clear + swiftness coming in useful too).

*Shrug, sure tweak it how you want. I can’t even play Staff Ele competently, don’t look at me, haha.

It’s playing Ele in the downed state. The Grandmaster is not for blasting fury, the Grandmaster is for having long duration Lava Fonts, but more importantly, long duration Lava Tombs.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Tornado could use a little something else.

Maybe reflecting projectiles, or making it a cantrip so it can be affected by several traits.

Maybe allow attunement swapping while under this form. Maybe even have skills that change with the attunement. Each attunement could have three skills: An autoattack, one targeted, and one PBAoE:

• Fire – “Firenado” form, the tornado looks more orange and deals burning on contact.
  • Fireball.
  • Flame Blast
  • Ring of Fire
• Water – “Twisting Blizzard” form, the tornado looks bluish, and deals chilled on contact.
  • Ice Shards
  • Freezing Gust
  • Frozen Burst
• Air – “Twister” form, the tornado looks like it does not, and pushes on contact.
  • Chain Lightning
  • Lightning Strike
  • Windborne Speed
• “Dust Devil” for, the torndo looks more like a Dust Mite Twister, deals bleeding on contact.
  • Rock Shards.
  • Dust Devil
  • Ring of Earth.

I would also like for all professions to have healing, 4 utilities and elite for each of their available skill types. That means for elementalists there’s missing arcane healing, and missing elite cantrip, arcane and signet.

What about Tornado for Engineer? All changes have to be applicable to both.

Unless of course you would like to write up something to the effect of a SlickShoonado or a Napalmado.

Narcarsis.5739:

Not really sure why I was brought up in this, but Jumper dueled me at 3-4am when I had no sleep and he had just woken up. He asked permission to upload that because he knew I played below how I normally duel, but I really couldn’t care less about a few duels. What I’m trying to figure out is why or how this was even brought up.

It was cause’ this guy fought that noob on Jumper’s account and thought it was a sign from God that matchmaking in this game is conspiring against him, so he added it to to the pile of ‘evidence.’

uberkingkong.8041:

Chaith.8256:

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

Why did you even post that video? What the heck is going on ITT about exploitable ladders…

How the hell did you turn this into a Caed vs. Thief who quit long quit the game by using a video from last year? Props.

To show everyone how good someone is, because its been awhile. Used it in conjunction with my other evidence. To show the scale of people I’m facing, AFTER losing 17 games in a row than another 9 games in a row.

It’s really disheartening when you get games that everyone is clearly above your skill level.

You may be on the winning side, but a lot of people are losing just as many games as I am, and its clearly not fun at all playing against stacked teams in solo que. Thus making me question myself ‘why do I keep playing PvP if its just going to be another terrible matchup, which will result in a loss’ or ‘it isn’t primetime, I cant have a good matchup’.

Like you notice this is done at nighttime, theres only limited amount of players at night time and what I keep seeing is one team super stack and my team (usually) full of newbs.

All of this is solo que.

Also, this was a thread about people exploiting ladder, and when you see people with skill level like Jumper X (some of you don’t know him, so I posted video of him beating Caed), and Sushijr on other team while your team is full newb. This is one of those perfect scenarios where one super rich dude who knows whose good and whose not good to be pressured into this kind of bad practice mentioned in this thread. Not just 1 good person, but 2 good players and your team, aint nobody worth talking about.

I don’t mean to say you wrote 3 posts for nothing.. but

Jumper X’s account is played by his seemingly deaf, dumb, and blind friend of his. The current user of Jumper X is a below average player.

Either way, your anecdotal evidence of you getting a month’s worth of butt kicking in one session holds no meaning. It holds no meaning on even the quality of matchmaking – let alone the potential exploits of the new system which is trying to be discussed.

@ OP,

In the new system, letting somebody score more points on you, but steal beating them of course, that will reduce the gain in MMR you get. I don’t see how that would facilitate cooperation. But like Justin said, selling wins is always going to be fought against.

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

Why did you even post that video? What the heck is going on ITT about exploitable ladders…

How the hell did you turn this into a Caed vs. Thief who quit long quit the game by using a video from last year? Props.

Arken.3725:

Edit: To Chaith above, you actually never gave me a negative reaction to all of the changes proposed my friend. I concede to the argument against Cleansing Water.

• Meh.

• Hell no.

• You didn’t propose anything specific.

You may consider it a lack of negative reaction, but to get developers to spend time tweaking, I think some positive reaction is needed. Speaking of, I think I’m still gonna have to shoot props to Phanta’s first 6 suggestions for the best balance.

Arken.3725:

Elemental Shielding: Gonna get some hate from this but this is way too good for an adept. Either reduce the duration or move it up to a master.
Cleansing water: With the sheer access to regeneration, i’d say this needs a slight change. Put a small ICD on it for each other person you apply regeneration to. Example: You apply regen to yourself, you remove a condition but it cannot be done for another 5 seconds. You can however remove a condi from someone else within that time-frame.
Elemental Attunement: This is a weird one because it goes from making the Elementalist’s attunement swap from being completely useless, to having the highest access of very strong boons. Not exactly sure what to do with this but maybe lowering the duration?

Okay. As you wish. Why I don’t like your suggestions:

• Elemental Shielding – getting removed from the meta build, I’m actually pretty indifferent about this, because Eles have another adept in it’s place that would do alright.

• Cleansing Water on an internal cooldown just makes playing a defensive Ele so awkward. You have this 5 second dead time where you don’t get condition removal from: Soothing Disruption (Cantrip use), Soothing Wave, Water Attunement, it’s just going to make it quite awkward and inevitably result in wasted condition removal via overlap. It’s just anti-fun and clunky. Eles would hypothetically have to opt for Cantrip Mastery over Soothing Wave because the random regen putting your condi removal on CD would break the trait. It would probably cut the Cleansing Water Ele’s ability to react to conditions by a ridiculously huge percent. Going from being able to spike remove 3 conditions to only being able to remove one every 5 seconds, meanwhile you can actually whiff your removals on yourself by hitting the invisible GCD? Lol. Who could possibly enjoy counting in your head to 5 on repeat?

• Elemental Attunement – the holy grail ability for all eles. You didn’t actually propose any numbers in which to reduce this by.. so, I can’t really comment.

Arken.3725:

And just to further reiterate on the whole “boon hate” discussion. S/D thief/Necromancer are the only professions with access to useful skills/traits. Again, looking at a single profession to balance is probably easier than looking at everyone else trying to find a way to fight it.

It’s because your nerf proposals are often too heavy handed, AKA, you’re going into the ring after dipping your handwraps in adhesive, followed by broken glass shards.

Again, I’m advocating we do a combination of the first 6 shaves as proposed by Phanta, and then seeing where things stand.

Booms.2594:

Chaith.8256:

Frenk.5917:

Chaith.8256:

Maybe introduce some potent protection-boonhate to some deserving parties?

Mmm, I don’t know.. I feel like Mesmers, Thieves and Necros already fill that role (I believe that Necromancers actually counter D/D Elementalists) moreover D/D Ele is not that good against heavy-condition teams. Which is why we see a lot more condi-ranger and condi-necro than before.

You’re right, at least about boon-hate already being in the Thief/Mes/Necro turf. However, Eles are never a bad option to take against condition heavy teams. D/D Eles are never ‘not that good’, under any circumstances right now.

Back to the subject of boonhate, Mesmers I would like to see them easier to pick up, without devoting an entire comp around it.

Also, I think that Larcenous Strike should steal a second boon if used on a foe below 50% HP. I think if that happened top D/D Eles and top S/D Thieves would be able to go even in 1v1s, instead of the Ele’s favor, and the Ele would be slightly more pressured when a thief outnumbers him.

id like to point out s/d thief can 1v1 a d/d ele it just takes 2-3 minutes vs a good ele.

furthermore I think there needs to be a buff to shatter mesmers so that they destroy d/d eles.. I understand lots of EU teams already run mesmer but I’m going to continue to assert that that is not the most optimal comp until WTS says otherwise. Pretty much every class in thsi game has a decent counter except ele so why can’t ele have one? It would be fair if ele didn’t hard counter anyone either and was just decent vs everything, but that’s not the case as it 100% will win every single 1v1 vs guardians, d/p thieves, rangers, and warriors with no exceptions.

Phantaram v. Magic Toker practice 1v1s are probably 75% win rate for Phanta. Both (the?) two top players at D/D Ele and S/D Thief, respectively.

Translated into conquest, it’s a 2 minute duel on a point the Ele will probably own. I still think the odds are against the Thief, and the threat of an enemy crashing the duel much more threatening to the Thief than the Ele.

It’s not a good investment for the Thief, so considering those factors I’d say the ability for a thief to maybe kill an ele after 60-120 seconds is not very useful.

I’m assuming it will be based on the point difference. 500-200 for example would be the equilivant results as 300-0, ended on timer.

*Shrugs. If that’s not how they do it, I think it will be too complicated to speculate.

Arken.3725:

Sagat.3285:

insanemaniac.2456:

i feel like the answer here is to give us really good counters to boon spam that otherwise arent that great. not necessarily just nerf the offending boon build. for example

This actually makes a lot of sense. However, giving everyone boon-hate is a much more daunting task than just working with the boons themselves.

Eh? No way. Slipping in a little ‘…and removes a boon’ to a PvP centric tooltip is much less difficult a task than changing how good boons are and expecting game balance to be good.

Something 99999% of people don’t consider when looking at lightning Rod: Conjure Earth Shield.

The 3 procs lightning Rod on the 600 range dash

The 4 procs lightning Rod on everyone in a 600 radius with the AoE pull!

Wrecking Ball staff Ele:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKi2zwzBr0ABAW4AwBIBIeFsBSilqDA-TJBFwACuAA12foaZAAPAAA

sinject.4607:

the reasoning is literally right there described with each suggested change.
he’s also a very high level elementalist that plays competitively so i think his words carry a bit more weight than yours

This thread isn’t tagged as sPvP, and the crowd here spans all the game modes. Not all readers are up to date on sPvP D/D Ele balance.

Also, he really doesn’t provide lengthy explanations by any stretch. That’s because most people just already know what’s up, lol. IE:

Phantaram.1265:

Drake’s Breath – a 2 second burn per tic instead of a 3 second burn

Elemental Shielding – 2 second protection instead of a 3 second protection

Soothing Disruption – 4-5 second regen/vigor instead of 6 second regen/vigor

So yeah. Anyone else who’s reading and didn’t get the memo, D/D Ele is noticeably over-performing in 5v5 conquest, Phanta’s first six suggestions, or a combination of them would likely remedy this over-performing pretty perfectly. I still think changing Boons themselves or Amulets is a bit too knee-jerk, though.

BlackBeard.2873:

@Sizer, watch a stream of actual top teams where you can hear their team comms,

I laughed. You know Sizer is competing in the WTS 50k tournament, representing Europe, this is in less than 2 weeks.

GOSU.9574:

Yes, what I mentioned does matter.

Did I say it didn’t? I’m saying you’re wrong for saying someone’s ‘woefully incorrect’ for citing condition builds as a counter to Engineers.

GOSU.9574:

Does it make them completely immune? Nope. Take what I mentioned, stand in your turrets and get back to me.

Just remind you, you were the one who answered that thief from the Turret Engi’s perspective, claiming you use soldiers and Melandru Runes, and that means you ain’t skurred of no condition builds. So.. why don’t you go back to standing in your turrets? Lol.

You are more ‘woefully incorrect’ than he is was, so don’t take offense if I ‘take what you mentioned’ with a grain of salt.

GOSU.9574:

glock.6590:

Their weakness is condi and I don’t have condi damage.

Melandru Rune/Soldier’s Amulet, chance for incoming condi to be converted into boons and healing turret say no, no thanks, keep your condi.

I am not really getting into this discussion or debate but I am pointing out something you stated as being woefully incorrect.

????

You think 2 condition removal per 15/20 seconds and transmute makes you resilient to condition attacks? If someone is solo queuing, and sick of Engineers, rolling in on a condi focused, but survivable War/Necro/Guardian/Ranger/Ele/Mesmer/Thief.. it’s way more than likely to go even, force the Engi off the point, or beat the Engineer with only healing turret, transmute, and hoelbrak/melandru. Assuming equal skill.

Seriously! Engineers are terrible against condition focused builds. I’m not saying that anything other than Engi/Necro/Ranger and maybe War/Ele are viable as condi in high level tPvP, but any condi build has a fair shot at beating an Engineer 1v1.

Frenk.5917:

Peureki.3647:

You really have to time everything perfectly to get two effects of blast in water fields or fire fields.

Not really. Water #2, Fire #2, dodge roll into the firefield while in earth. There’s even time for Fire #3 to maximize DPS.

Also, the simple fact that you can Water #2 —-> Water #3 without needing to switch to other attunements would be extremely powerful. You could potentially blast three times into Water #5.

To be clear: I’d like for this to happen, but I believe we have to think about the consequences.

Hmm I think Peureki was talking about the second blast being Eruption, not evasive Arcana.

I think that the world is ready for Eles that can blast things 2+ times, at this point, guys.

Despite Staff having an abundance of fields, it’s pretty light on blasts… Eruption is the only blast finisher. D/D, D/F, S/D, and S/F, they have 3, 3, 4, and 4, on 1-5 abilities, respectively.

Other blasts through utilities and traits will probably remain a constant.

Frenk.5917:

Chaith.8256:

Frenk.5917:

It would be the ultimate pointholder.

Imagine a D/D Celestial Elementalist.
Now give him 1200 range, massive AoE pressure, and more healing.

It’d be insane.

I’m all for it.

Honestly man I think staff needs to have telegraphs drastically reduced on Earth 2, Water 2, and Air 2.

I do agree, but keep in mind that (speaking about SPVP), giving Water #2 a blast finisher may cause huge problems, given the amount of fire/water fields an ele can provide.

They just thoughtlessly put a blast on Frozen Burst on the D/D Set for crying out loud.

But yeah, if Ice Spike did a blast, bump the cooldown up by 2-4 seconds, so there’s no incentive to stay extended periods in Water Attunement.

Frenk.5917:

Chaith.8256:

Maybe introduce some potent protection-boonhate to some deserving parties?

Mmm, I don’t know.. I feel like Mesmers, Thieves and Necros already fill that role (I believe that Necromancers actually counter D/D Elementalists) moreover D/D Ele is not that good against heavy-condition teams. Which is why we see a lot more condi-ranger and condi-necro than before.

You’re right, at least about boon-hate already being in the Thief/Mes/Necro turf. However, Eles are never a bad option to take against condition heavy teams. D/D Eles are never ‘not that good’, under any circumstances right now.

Back to the subject of boonhate, Mesmers I would like to see them easier to pick up, without devoting an entire comp around it.

Also, I think that Larcenous Strike should steal a second boon if used on a foe below 50% HP. I think if that happened top D/D Eles and top S/D Thieves would be able to go even in 1v1s, instead of the Ele’s favor, and the Ele would be slightly more pressured when a thief outnumbers him.

What kind of PvP? Looks fine for SoloQ if you are good at Medi Guard.

Frenk.5917:

It would be the ultimate pointholder.

Imagine a D/D Celestial Elementalist.
Now give him 1200 range, massive AoE pressure, and more healing.

It’d be insane.

I’m all for it.

Honestly man I think staff needs to have telegraphs drastically reduced on Earth 2, Water 2, and Air 2.

It’s like.. 1.5s, 1s, and 1.25s cast times respectively, and the Water 2 and Earth 2 have massive charge up times once the spell it cast. Who the eff needs 3 seconds to dodge a relatively medium-high damage attack? It’s madness, lol.

100% In agreement with buffing the pathetic accuracy of these attacks.

glock.6590:

Chaith.8256:

glock.6590:

My point is still valid. I need to play well as a glass thief to kill a turret engi. What if the turret engi was a mediocre mesmer or thief instead? I would only need few seconds to drop him instead of few mins.

Your point is valid that a noob Engineer on a proper starter build, naturally countering Thieves, is better than a noob Mesmer on a high skill input shatter build, naturally countered by thieves. In other news, water is wet.

You hate turrets for that reason, but do you think that turrets should be nerfed due to that same logic?

They’re called starter builds because they give players the ability to fight back against more mechanically skilled opponents. This is an intended design in every decent game. You know, noob friendly strategies that a monkey can use in order to turn the tables on other bad, or average players who make bad decisions, and can’t exploit the limitations of such starter builds.

Not many limitations to exploit against turret engi. Their weakness is condi and I don’t have condi damage. The only way a thief can kill a turret engi is by LoSing with shortbow. But if the engi is not totally brain dead, he will put rocket/riffle turret off point which won’t allow me to LoS.

In that case I’m just forced to give away the cap for free just because of his build and not skill.

Perhaps you haven’t considered the possibility that instead of fighting an uphill battle, you could use your no-condies, high mobility burst build to create an outnumbered scenario on one or both other points?

You are not the guy who 1v1s the turret Engineer on an enemy capped or neutral node. Giving a cap up for free doesn’t even mean close to giving up the match.

Learn your place!

Edit: The limitation you are missing here is that once you say goodbye to the Turret Engi you let get all excited to cap that point……….. he is useless for a minimum of 60 seconds and I’ve witnessed Turret Engineers be useless for 3-5 minutes until their dang turrets despawn.

glock.6590:

My point is still valid. I need to play well as a glass thief to kill a turret engi. What if the turret engi was a mediocre mesmer or thief instead? I would only need few seconds to drop him instead of few mins.

Your point is valid that a noob Engineer on a proper starter build, naturally countering Thieves, is better than a noob Mesmer on a high skill input shatter build, naturally countered by thieves. In other news, water is wet.

You hate turrets for that reason, but do you think that turrets should be nerfed due to that same logic?

They’re called starter builds because they give players the ability to fight back against more mechanically skilled opponents. This is an intended design in every decent game. You know, noob friendly strategies that a monkey can use in order to turn the tables on other bad, or average players who make bad decisions, and can’t exploit the limitations of such starter builds.

The reason how players actually find the desire to get better and try builds often stems from that taste of victory, or those ‘aha’ moments when you come across effective builds in the skill tier you are at.

Turret builds aren’t unanimously bad for the game. They do good, in that it forces people to learn how to exploit their limitations, and punishes them for impaling themselves on immobile A.I on a point they don’t own. Turret Engies are hard countered by the slightest tactical plays. Once the community has collectively learned how to rotate and matchups to avoid, instead of fighting 5+ minute 1v1s on an enemy capped points, Turret builds will have no legs left to stand on.

In PvP – running bombs over grenades puts the Engineer at a huge disadvantage in many situations.

• You can’t cleave from a distance.
• You lose a large component of power damage (not so good for Cele).
• You’re unable to hit fleeing enemies with any significant damage, your effective range is practically melee, especially with Rifle.
• You’re more susceptible to CC and AoE due to positioning requirements of bombs.
• You’re going to be countered more by enemies that can move properly, and or, won’t fight on point.

However, you can stealth allies, and stealth magnet pull every 20s with the right bomb & toolkit build. You can stack might well. It’s not short on utility, it’s just short on combat strength compared to Grenades.

glock.6590:

Chaith.8256:

glock.6590:

Meh the only thing that is OP with ele is the healing. Its ridiculous that a cele ele can recover from 20% to full….

Let them have protection , might, vigor but nerf the healing . It takes me kittening 5 minutes to kill an ele and I’m a glass thief so yea…

Same problem with engi btw , healing turret needs to be nerfed or a longer cast time.

Shout healing warrior is also aids, way too much sustain.

I’m tiered of fighting cele classes for 10 mins.

Can’t you draw the same conclusion that Celestial Eles take 10+ minutes to kill a glass thief? Haha. D/D is a soft counter to thief, 1v1 anyways. Thief is balanced around having huge ability to +1 on other points and overwhelm people extremely fast.

D/D 1v1 efficiency can stand to get nerfed by 5-8%. But what’s wrong with having professions that can heal?

The suggestions phanta has listed are extremely good. The changes to might and celestial amulets seem unnecessary though.

Because when some classes have too much sustain it becomes boring for everybody. Have you ever seen a D/D ele vs D/D duel? Hmm yea ,it only takes 30 min to kill each other!

They wear an amulet with enough defensive stats, and have approximately 100% of their trait points in defensive lines, centered around protection, condition removal, boon duration, and attunement swapping for more healing, and protection.

Have you seen two bunker guards duel?

What’s not okay is that it’s got the best odds to win any 1v1 in addition to the great things it brings – support, point holding, etc. Needs a small shave to 1v1 efficiency.

There’s nothing wrong with letting someone dump their traits into defense.

Honestly, a little rock paper scissors would do wonders for the D/D Ele. Right now it’s like… when the D/D Ele fights on a side point, he’s rock and there are only other rocks and scissors. He might lose to a better rock but …. wheres the paper at, man? Haha. I feel that a if a predator was introduced that would be ideal, rather than going ham with the nerfbat to D/D Eles.

Maybe introduce some potent protection-boonhate to some deserving parties?

glock.6590:

Meh the only thing that is OP with ele is the healing. Its ridiculous that a cele ele can recover from 20% to full….

Let them have protection , might, vigor but nerf the healing . It takes me kittening 5 minutes to kill an ele and I’m a glass thief so yea…

Same problem with engi btw , healing turret needs to be nerfed or a longer cast time.

Shout healing warrior is also aids, way too much sustain.

I’m tiered of fighting cele classes for 10 mins.

Can’t you draw the same conclusion that Celestial Eles take 10+ minutes to kill a glass thief? Haha. D/D is a soft counter to thief, 1v1 anyways. Thief is balanced around having huge ability to +1 on other points and overwhelm people extremely fast.

D/D 1v1 efficiency can stand to get nerfed by 5-8%. But what’s wrong with having professions that can heal?

The suggestions phanta has listed are extremely good. The changes to might and celestial amulets seem unnecessary though.

Dis Wiz Raps.7240:

Arantheal.7396:

There was only one guy here that really hated turret engis, and luckly his flamboyant behavior drove him away eventually.

Anyways, it’s not that most people hate them (except those who whisper you and whine), it’s that these builds are nowhere near meta for the engi, and therefore you will never compete on a proficient level in pvp.
the cooldowns are too long, the pressure is too low, which means that you maybe can hold a point fairly long (if you don’t get overloaded by condis), but to effectively defend it, you’ll always need the support from a second team-mate, and you can’t deal with more than 1 attacker without getting cc-locked and killed.

turrets are awesome, and in the right build, provide awesome utility.
net-turret f.e. works wonders together with nades to increase you chance to land your burst.
flame-turret is awesome denial due to its smokefield, and provide nice loads of burn, and in some FT-builds it even finds use as HGH-replacing might-beacon.
and rifle-turret is awesome utility in a exploding turrets / static discharge build, due to its low cd on both the utility and belt-ability.

but running full turrets limits your options in terms of sigils (no doom / battle / energy / hydromancy / geomancy for you), costs you loads of weapon-skills (no room for kits) and therefore limits you to spaming your AA and occasionally one of your other main-weapon abilities. Therefore you don’t have pressure, no survivability, and can’t do anything but hide behind tanky stats and hope that your team-mates will always jump after you in time.

Don’t get me wrong, delaying a point cap is viable, but in the end of the day, your team only has 4 effective members and one point with a healthbar.

As I said, turrets have their use, and can be devastating to your opponent if used in the right build, but a all-turreteer is nowhere near to be even remotely effective.

Still it’s up to you and your team to decide how you enjoy pvp, just don’t expect to be taken as serious pvp players then.

Shrug. I’m steadily climbing into the top 100 with my full turret build (rocket, rifle, thumper).

It’s no where near effective in a battle between coordinated teams. Im sure you can A.I your way to top 100 in soloq because there are handfuls of people readily willing to throw the game by dying on point to immobile A.I.