Guild Wars 2

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith.8256:

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith.8256:

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

There’s only so much harm to the game’s enjoyment 20 people can do who rarely even do ranked queue.

I think there are more than 20 that can dominate the average players. There is a LOT to this game and it takes a while to learn.

We were both talking about elite players not slightly above average players.

Matchmaking can’t work for elite players if no other of the 20 elite players are playing.

However, for above average players and average players, the matchmaking seems to work just fine. What you’re referring to isn’t a problem currently.

It’s amplified because let’s say, Top 300 players grouped on teams, many on Teamspeak, basically cycle through match after match crushing casual soloers. You see this whenever the queues get shorter.

The teams that are winning are having fun and play hour after hour, winning. The low to average skill people get discouraged by blowouts and stop. Still, more casuals show up after a few minutes and get blown out for a few games, then they leave.

When they tightened up the matching, I, as an average player, started getting good tight matches…but the forums lit up with high-level people complaining that they Q was 30 mins.

Well, of course it was…the matcher was not allowing lopsided matches.

Thing is, there are enough people in the top 300 playing at a time to allow matches between two parties of the same category to happen. And god knows there are enough solo queuing, average players to match amongst themselves.

The game can match a game where all players are perfectly even in MMR. Often one team will win and the losers simply blame the matcher, to be honest. Counter-picks happen and aren’t controllable – matching MMR is only the first step, not the be-all to close matches. Players have to take their win rate into their own hands at some point, where it is possible to influence it. (Tailoring builds in the pre-game, reading up on, and playing effective builds.)

All fine ideas. Why not? It would make for a better game, period.

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith.8256:

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

There’s only so much harm to the game’s enjoyment 20 people can do who rarely even do ranked queue.

I think there are more than 20 that can dominate the average players. There is a LOT to this game and it takes a while to learn.

We were both talking about elite players not slightly above average players.

Matchmaking can’t work for elite players if no other of the 20 elite players are playing.

However, for above average players and average players, the matchmaking seems to work just fine. What you’re referring to isn’t a problem currently.

Silentshoes.1805:

twhite, did you say you abandoned a game you were in to join another one? Why would you do that and leave your team 4×5?

It’s a known bug. Occasionally, you get multiple queue pops while you’re already in a queued arena. Someone from your team, if not 4 people from your team will accept it and the match is basically ruined.

Some bugs need ironing still.

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

There’s only so much harm to the game’s enjoyment 20 people can do who rarely even do ranked queue.

Yep, keep improving at the game. Your opinion on Rangers and Mesmers will change.

twhite.9310:

Hi guys/girls! I’m just posting because PvP in this game is getting old.. I have had a LFT post in the forums for quite some time now and no1 seems interested.. which is fine… just letting everyone know that I am officially done with PvP.

Solo Unranked = get matched up against premades.. or get paired with complete dummies who don’t listen and call you bad when don’t carry them hard enough.
Also today .. I was in the middle of one tournament that we were winning and then I get a Q pop to join another one and end up getting put into a tourney that we got stomped 500 to like 100.. Don’t know how I got paired with people that bad.

I have over 3.2k hours in PvP ad it was fun while it lasted but I’m calling it quits.. It was nice making the memories that I made with whoever I played with. Goodluck to everyone in their PvP tournies.

I’ve done about solo 40 Unranked queue and I’ve won like 32 of them, I think victory is achievable if your goal is to win and you play something that can carry. That’s my personal anecdotal experience. I’m sure everyone’s is different.

Narkodx.1472:

Leaderboards are for leading players? wtf does that mean? Leader boards are for people like backpack to flex his kitten?

Leader boards ARE for casuals – They are the ones who actually want the llamas and participate

You and your buddies already win money wtf you want a leader board for!?

It IS partially your fault there is no competition instead of 4 elite teams consisting of 20 elite players just imagine there were 20 teams with 1 elite player each – why do that when we can all team up and win money in china though right?!

Only one thing will bring more players that is active rewards for participation in leader boards throughout all levels! Not simply rewarding the 20 players who group up and stomp everyone.

You guys need to get a grip – Leader boards are not about rewarding you guys and growing your kitten it is creating incentives for the regular players to get better thus increasing participation and making the China events better for the pros like you! Instead of having a stream with 300 viewers all the time you might get a stream with an actual significant amount of viewers

Guy, you make no sense. Saying the top players ARE partially at fault because they play with each other, as opposed to rationing out one top player per team to make 20 teams? Lmao. I think you need to get a grip if you fault someone for not artificially creating competition by pulling people in who can’t normally compete at that level.

Also how do you figure that anyone is asking for exclusive rewards for the top 20? Who even knows anything about ladder rewards..?

It’s just a list of names, man. Who cares about the rewards. In this list of names, I firmly believe that this list should naturally gravitate towards showing in descending order: who the strongest players are – who uses the best strategies, has the best communication and teamwork, and mechanical skill.

Reward everyone on the dang list equally. Who cares. Make the list actually be meaningful – that’s how a small measure of prestige is created, and increased competition, and so forth.

Seeing the #1 guy on the ladder and being like: “Sweet, free win.” Now that’s some prestigious ladders. Get me sum-o-dat.

Narkodx.1472:

I don’t get it

Leader boards are for casuals

I would say Leaderboards are for leading players. Nobody cares who is rising out of the 45% percentile and breaking into the top 1000. Not even casuals ..

You seem to think it’s hypocrisy that players strive to be the best and play with players who are their equal?

Dude, what are you even saying? That it’s the top players fault there is little competition? What are they to do, just attempt to carry someone who picked up the collector’s edition of GW2 yesterday to bring their team down so there’s more close matches? Lmao.

Also you pretty much blame the lack of players in PvP because top 20 players are stomping them all. I will drop a gem of knowledge for you dude, it is sorely needed, none of the top 20 players like to pub stomp. They’re not often stomping everyone else in ranked queue, ruining the game for everyone . You’ve said it yourself, they actually enjoy close matches and prefer to play amongst other competitive people rather than people who play for fun, dailies, 30silver, or reward tracks.

Chase.8415:

What is game breaking and considered overpowered right now?

Things are relatively good.. Ele is slightly over-represented in conquest picks and needs shaving, Ranger’s and Guard’s 5v5 conquest type builds need a small nudge forward as well.

Only very small nudges in either direction though for the above mentioned professions. In my opinion, as long as the next balance patch addresses those things, I consider it to be a good one. Tons of other optional tweaks to Mesmer/Thief/Engi/Necro/War I’m sure, but imo they are lower priority.

Ostricheggs.3742:

(wakkey is the best wingman in the world, I love you).

Stopped reading right here. Who gave you her e-mail address again? </3

If you WTS the Finals VOD, I WTB.

Very helpful to see the NA point of view.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Well its not really a secret anymore if youve asked or payed attention to members of abjured or tcg, but from what they’ve said, the matches at the finals were extremely laggy. Not just a little lag but a significant amount. This along with the fact that there was no one dedicated stream for the finals to be watched on, makes Anet still look very amateurish in the esports arena.

You have people competing for 5 figures and you can’t host the game on a LAN network? Its either they arn’t very smart or don’t care that people’s money could be lose on something as important as a full second delay.

All this feels sorta like a desperate attempt from the devs to keep the esports chances alive. Throw money at it, not quality.

Couple things:

Entirely not ArenaNet’s fault. Kong Zhong’s ISP and technicians.

Lag was significant in matches vs. China, that had us all in a bad mood. However, in the finals, I personally had insignificant amounts of lag. I however cannot speak for teleport users like Thief/Mes/Ele. There were no disconnects or debilitating lag spikes in the EU vs. NA matchups to my knowledge. For me it just felt a little wobbly when throwing nades occasionally. The same way it looks on VODs.

The lag was not frustrating the Abjured at least, in the finals. Can’t say the same for the semi-finals. Toker was doing work on his SD Thief, we were all getting hyped, and it genuinely did not dampen our spirits.

xDudisx.5914:

Good job NA completely outplaying EU without having to use a cheese shatter mesmer builds in your comp.

Shatter is manly. Try to get something done on it with an SD Thief on your 6, and you’ll realize it’s not cheese.

crunchyraisin.6054:

1.) It attempts to balance player performance and player time spent. We must agree that in order to earn a top spot a player should have to be both active and successful.

Yes, it attempts. But when your leaderboard rank is based 95% on how active you are, and how successful you are is weighted at 5%, I can’t really see the attempt at balance.

There’s one guy on the NA leaderboards who’s rated twice as high as the next guy. He yolo queues every hour of every day, and doesn’t even go one win for every loss.

Top players who nobody can even take a game off them – literally have no chance to be rated well unless they queue every hour of every day to match the people no-lifing the solo queue.

What if consecutive win streaks just temporarily attracted higher and higher MMR opponents? This way the people 500-0ing teams with much higher MMR will actually get decent MMR gains….? Also the cap of 3 MMR gain per game might have to be adjusted up, too.

For what I’m suggesting, if a player or team was on a streak and getting higher and higher MMR opponents, but then hit a wall, the temporary attracting of opponents with higher MMR would cease. That player may then be a lot closer to where he should actually be on the ladder.

The ladder needs to be adjusted until it reasonably and accurately reflects the strongest to weakest players in descending order

Backpack.8517:

If people are “facerolling or 500-0ing” others then just give them an insane MMR increase so that they play the best possible groups playing. If they continue to win then by all means they have earned the rank.

Why are you underplaying group play? I thought the ladders and seasons update was supposed to encourage team play not discourage it…

Yep.

We need insane MMR increases after 500-0ing for 20 matches in a row. Right now, to be accurately represented, top players need to 500-0 for … 100 matches before they are ranked as high as the people rapid fire losing 90 games and winning maybe 80.

No matter how bad you are, if you play twice as many games as anyone else, you are the top guild wars 2 player according to the leaderboards. All hail Marvin, Oeggs & Kirito as our new ladder overlords.

NeXeD.3042:

The amount of excuses from EU players not in TCG, and the complete inability to admit the legit win is just outstanding. Every post was “well na played well but, tcg actually won because they didn’t practice and used an outdated comp”….

All valid points. In addition, EU won because Oeggs threw it by wearing sweatpants.

Sol.4310:

@Chaith.8256, see when they nerf ele and engi which they will, you should know Warrior is going to become a problem well the Shout Warrior that is. It’s going to be new OP build.

Perma Swiftness/Regen/Vigor, no class should have this. Sorry but Speed Kit’s fell under the perma swiftness. If you want perma swiftness should be forced into taking Skills over Trait’s. Passive vs Active always been big topic.

Sigils need a change atm only sigils you ever see used are, Geo/Doom/Air/Fire/Battle/Int. Rarely see any of the other sigils being used.

Ok you are saying lots of things that are misguiding.

You don’t know that Engies and Eles will be nerfed to the point where they can’t compete with Warriors. If Anet is intelligent about it, a shave to D/D Eles and Cele Engies will be all that’s necessary. Don’t anticipate they will be gutted and you will need to gut Warrior too.

It’s arbitrary as hell for you to say ‘no profession should have ways to achieve perma X boon’. Why does it have to be that way except for because you say so? Some professions get around with a ton of movement abilities, some with swiftness, and some with a combination. Tons, if not all of the professions have perma boon options when set up with the Boon Duration tree and the appropriate weapons/utilities. Lots of them are trash, even. But you’re basically saying they shouldn’t exist as soon as they’re also able to be picked up in a build that is actually good.

You’re not wrong on all things though, like, D/D Cele Cantrip Eles are slightly over-performing in sustained healing and condition removal, given that they can fight 1v2 better than anyone and 1v1 better than anyone, purely due to very strong sustain. A decrease to the frequency in which they get Regeneration (Cleansing Water procs) such as your Soothing Wave suggestion would be good… but make sure you’re doing things for the right reason.

Are meta Engies burning for too much uptime? I would say balanced up there with Eles, Warriors, and Guards. The meta Cele build has only IP for a burning source, meaning that it’s at maximum 52.5% uptime assuming it doesn’t get removed. If you’re referring to a Balthazar Engi with 6 points in condition duration, I encourage you to see what happens to burn when you do that with an Ele, Warrior, or Guard.

Are meta Engies too fast, out of combat? No. Stop suggesting balance changes to Speedy Kits based on boon uptime without context of the entire builds.

Are Eles critting too much? No. Stop suggesting nerfs to Fury uptime – the meta Ele relies on conditions too much as is, not crits or power damage – nerfs to Fury would merely set back power focused Eles even further.

Are Eles dodging too much? Arguable, I think no, so it’s not clear that hacking off vigor access is a good way to proceed. The Renewing Stamina nerf you propose is not that strange to be suggested, but too harsh. Shave, not third degree razorburn pls.

Do meta Shout Warrior builds make you hate your life when playing them? No. So stop trying to make that happen.

Sigil changes: Sure. But you’re incredibly shortsighted to not acknowledge Air/Fire combos on Zerker professions. People still play Thief and Mesmer. And they are good – I recommend you sign off the forums and let Helseth cast his stow-weapon auto attack on you, bombarding your face with Air and Fire sigil procs.

ellesee.8297:

So I heard some stories about Chaith before I left for work. It ruined my night! Chaith you’re dead to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Whatever it was, I didn’t do it! Haha.

Yep, quite simply, 500-0ing people repeatedly 60 times in a row sadly is about as slow as molasses at recognizing that your MMR needs to be… higher. Much higher.

The strongest teams I doubt will ever be reflected at the top MMR because they play the game assuming it won’t be fun 500-0ing and spawn camping some poor noobs for their entire playtime.

Can’t happen. Queue times need all the lubrication they can get. Split the people in queue and you have some pretty unacceptable waits.

I can’t get behind most of these changes. Shouts are fundementally instant, giving them a cast time would be really anti-fun and unintended. Shout Warriors already get ping pong’d around, anyways, I’d rather Warriors not have to attempt casting mega long shoutsin addition.

Pin Down does not need to be nerfed anymore, please and thanks. It’s quite avoidable now, and able to be played around.

Engineer’s out of combat mobility is not OP. It’s inferior to the meta Warrior, Ele, Thief, already. I don’t know why Speedy Kits would be targeted.

Also, please try to target your nerfs to the Elementalist profession better. Arcane Fury and Renewing Stamina are used by all, D/D Cele Ele or not.

I’m fine with Sigils getting toned down across the board, I feel the Sigil re-vamp was overall good for the variety, but created an increase in base pressure/sustain. However, your suggestions only target Doom and Battle. Air/Fire would need an adjustment too.

pdavis.8031:

So you nerf these so the other classes will become better? Not trying to be snarky or anything, but nerfing these won’t suddenly bring others into “the meta”. There is a reason that the others aren’t in “the meta”. Necros for example, they don’t bring anything to the table that any other profession can’t do better.

You’re entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong. Haha. Nothing drops the atomic bomb on someone as fast as Necro when it +1’s a fight.

XGhoul.7426:

Here is some proof

From second hand knowledge, I heard you guys were treated really nice, unfortunately it wasn’t the same when NA had to stream/shoutcast the matches on the event. (or have a ts)

Lol at that scarf. Majestic as a lion. I know when I’m beat.

It’s interesting for sure, but in almost every case will result in your enemies being less crispy than if you used Balthazar Runes. And not to mention without Alchemy, your survivability will tank.

Ostricheggs.3742:

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand Chaith! Welcome back to NA! Could you please upload pictures of the photoshoot! Thanks in advance!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Livskis, I hate to break your heart but I learned that Chaith isn’t single. I also learned that he is BY FAR the most stylish and well mannered individual on both TCG and The Abjured. I’ve never seen someone wear a scarf so well IRL, it was something to behold.

I dunno, man. Synced bowties and watches with too many rocks on em’ to tell what the time was, TCG gave a pretty good showing.

coglin.1867:

Nova Stiker.8396:

For those defending the legitimacy of Engineers you can inflict burning, bleeding, vulnerability and poison on a single auto attack grenade throw. kitten , puts Necromancers to shame, I bet they wish they could do that.

Wait……………………..Your suggesting Elixir gun auto attack is Over powered? Awe, isn’t hat cute.

Probably not. I wouldn’t conclude that since he didn’t include weakness in that list of conditions. He said auto-attack grenade throw, that assumably procced Doom sigil, 15% Shrapnel proc, crit for Incendiary Powder.

As an aside, E-Gun’s pressure and weakness is a bit dumb for how easy it is, but the only problem is that you can literally do nothing else, and you have to sacrifice many other things. I agree that it’s balanced.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I main Elementalist, for everyone defending Elementalist just stop, it is very clear how broken we are. Just because you lost to Warhorn spamming condi Warrior cheese on far point doesn’t mean you are balanced.

You don’t play a version of Elementalist that uses any mechanics that are remotely overpowered. From your perspective I’m surprised you aren’t calling Elementalists the trash-can profession.

Reasoning: You don’t use Cleansing Water, Cantrips, or use Signet of Restoration (stow lightningwhip bug).

uberkingkong.8041:

Hurrdurr

Could you put a sock in it? There was no kind of attack on the equipment – the Chinese ISP was simply extremely limited given what everyone in the building was putting it through.

With that in mind, can you stop huffing and puffing? Maybe delete your post.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Chaith.8256:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Humps Helseth’s leg for 4 straight matches.

Shakes hand afterwards.

What are you getting at? Were you expecting a bigger ‘climax’ instead of a handshake?

Ayyyyy

Anyone good at writing Fanfics?

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Humps Helseth’s leg for 4 straight matches.

Shakes hand afterwards.

What are you getting at? Were you expecting a bigger ‘climax’ instead of a handshake?

Norn for increased camera range. Standard Models on.

Phineas Poe.3018:

bethekey.8314:

I find it laughable that the meta build in pve is now what I have been using for over a year, without others catching on. It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one. Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

Just to clarify something: the meta includes the flamethrower again, but it is hardly the old FT/EG standalone two-kit build before the Juggernaut and Kit Refinement nerfs. You’re still supposed to use grenades most of the time for stacking vulnerability; the only thing that’s really changed from the old meta is that the flamethrower has replaced the bomb kit for the fire field and blast finisher.

The original FT/EG build was a part of the meta when Cursed Shore, not dungeons, was the primary farming space. It was a tanky setup at a time when everyone ranged Lupicus, when guardians ran Altruistic Healing, and when FOTM 40+ was done only through bugging the instance.

And then it got nerfed. It really began its death spiral when Juggernaut was reworked, but Kit Refinement being overhauled was the key point we all point to as the FT being a waste of a slot.

And then they fixed Flame Blast’s double detonation.

And then they nerfed Incendiary Powder.

And then they buffed the bomb kit, which is when we finally jumped ship and reworked the FT/EG build and the grenade kit build into what is currently the meta setup of the BK/FT + GK + EG. I kept curating the build and trying to keep it as a part of the meta, but that was in large part out of saving the effort of my own work. I stopped using the FT/EG build after the dungeon and fractal overhauls, and after the fast-cast fix—as anyone should have.

If you kept using it all this time, then you actually were running a bad build.

To suggest the FT/EG has always been viable or that it is being played the same as it used to is an egregious misunderstanding of what the original build’s intention was and how it compares now. I would personally argue that the bomb kit is still a better might-blasting option for PvE, but that’s another topic entirely.

I have no idea how it performs in PvP because I just came back to GW2 after four months in ArcheAge and everything is really different.

Yeah I think Woodstock’s claims mostly refer to PvP, as I don’t have any knowledge about his PvE adventures.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Why choose? Why can’t I have smoke screen and wall of reflection at the same time?

That’s balanced. Right, guys?

Lol, nobody is suggesting that. When I said a short burst of boons it was meant for Elixirs that provide boons. But yes, that would still leave Elixir U and Elixir X quite RNG. Those are actually two utilities that would benefit most from the OP’s suggestion

Wolfar.6508:

While I like the solution, this will make an already complicated profession even more complicated. I’d rather see them just give a set boon instead of one out of X boons.

Or a shortened burst of 3 Boons!

Junkpile.7439:

And when anet nerf D/D it’s 99% sure that this op spec will still be viable, but every other spec will totally useless.

Well, it’s not entirely fair to say that the lesser D/D builds are very useful right now, either. At least compared to the effectiveness of Cele Ele.

Even post-shave, (if it happens) it’s not a certainty that running D/D will be useless if you aren’t running the meta build. Arenanet could potentially build up some other options at the same time as the shaves targeting 0/0/2/6/6 D/D Eles happen. It is difficult to speculate because anything could happen.

coglin.1867:

Simon.3794:

coglin.1867:

I have to agree, intelligent people are aware that elementalist are not the problem. It is only the truly salty, unknowledgeable, short sighted, and poorly skilled, who claim the profession as problematic.

This is really funny, because theres literally a thread about how dd should be nerfed which is posted by one of the best elementalists.

i guess he is just unknowledgeable, short sighted and poorly skilled then.

No, he posted on changed that would not hurt the profession as whole, but, that would tone down the specific D/D builds he feels are problematic. At no point does he suggest the profession as a whole is problematic.

zapv.8051:

It is pretty evident d/d ele needs some nerfs.

D/D as a whole is not the problem. The fact that you would imply that, is the problem.

D/D x/x/x/6/6 with celestial, are what I feel is the problem. More specifically, it is a cantrip build.

Coglin, you praise Phantarams’ changes because they don’t hurt the Ele profession ‘as a whole.’ I mostly agree.

However, in the same breath you chirp on someone for merely suggesting D/D Ele needs nerfs, when it’s clearly only Cele x/x/x/6/6 builds that do. You even go so far as to call the fact anyone would say that is a problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Suggestions-to-shave-DD-ele-into-balance/first

I think you’re in the wrong here, because Phantaram’s suggestions clearly aren’t against nerfing D/D ‘as a whole’ as you would grill other people for suggesting.

Suggesting a nerf/fix to Drake’s Breath, Lightning Whip, affect “D/D as a whole”, not just x/x/x/6/6. They’re D/D weapon skills for crying out loud. Suggesting a nerf to Renewing Stamina hits pretty much every Ele build as well.

The best ways to shave D/D Ele aren’t always going to neatly fall outside of every single other non-overpowered D/D build. Phanta’s suggestions most reasonable people can all agree with, and yet they don’t just purely affect x/x/x/6/6 Cele Eles.

coglin.1867:

Chaith.8256:

When someone is implying that they’re talking about standard Cele Ele and standard Cele Engi, actually… for a lot of people, those are indeed known builds that are just as known as say, ‘Hambow. Medi-Guard. Spirit Ranger. Shatter Mesmer.’ I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to post a build link and video evidence of the anecdote everytime they tell it.

You chaith, your trying to speak for others, and here is the problem with that. We have threads that are claiming the fire field spams are the problem with celestial engineers then complain about the tool kit block, invulnerability of elixir S, and grenades, in the same post. None of which offer a fire field. So regardless of what you claim they are saying, as long as I am seeing such uninformed claims and illogical accusations, particularly by posters with a history of such action, I want to know what build they, personally, find problematic. Not the build Chaith feels is problematic. Which is kind of why I asked him what he meant, and didn’t ask you what he meant.

Chaith.8256:

It’s a personal anecdote of a duel or encounter.. just take it with a grain of salt and proceed, lol.

Umm yeah. I thought that was pretty much what my comment was infering.

Chaith.8256:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAElUUpELmch1rRYLoROm2IyNWlPHhAkUA-T5gIwAAeAAf2fQYZAA

^The Engi was using this.

Were you the engie?

Chaith.8256:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMacW4wzBf0AiAB5ulqRBlfHTB-TJRHwAFeAAAOBAk2f4YZAA

^The Ele was using this.

Well, yeah, I would hope so, as it is the build in the video he stated he got the play style ideas from. The problem is, I do not know that he adhered to it, or didn’t make any personal changes. Which is why I asked him.

Well this has been pleasant.

coglin.1867:

Elitist.8701:

So, yesterday I watched Thrackit’s video on how to be a better DD Ele. After that I learned a lot about how to play DD eles. I delete my level 3 Mes and make an Ele. After that I ask my teammate (a cele engi) to duel. He wasnt playing at his best because he had cold hands or something but I beat him 3-0 WHILE HE USED CRATE and I know for a fact that my teammate is very good at cele engi. What does this say about how OP cele ele is? Cele ele is at an advantage vs cele engi, but I literally hadnt played ele for a week, and before that I hadnt played it for months (I used to main DD Ele for like 5 months until the patch that made them godmode then I deleted my ele).

None of that makes a lick of sense, because you give no context what so ever. The fact that anyone can speak as if “celestial ele” or “celestial engie” is a build everyone knows is silly. Telling us what amulet they were using says nothing about what the build is. What build were you using? What build was your friend using? Based on your ridiculously biased post history, what evidence do you have to support the claim that your friend was skilled at all?

What this looks like to me, is nothing but a very vague, and highly anecdotal claim, with limited evidence to support it.

When someone is implying that they’re talking about standard Cele Ele and standard Cele Engi, actually… for a lot of people, those are indeed known builds that are just as known as say, ‘Hambow. Medi-Guard. Spirit Ranger. Shatter Mesmer.’ I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to post a build link and video evidence of the anecdote everytime they tell it.

It’s a personal anecdote of a duel or encounter.. just take it with a grain of salt and proceed, lol.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAElUUpELmch1rRYLoROm2IyNWlPHhAkUA-T5gIwAAeAAf2fQYZAA

^The Engi was using this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMacW4wzBf0AiAB5ulqRBlfHTB-TJRHwAFeAAAOBAk2f4YZAA

^The Ele was using this.

Daroon.1736:

Chaith.8256:

There is something that nobody in this thread is really taking into account by suggesting a 6th player for either team whether as a Commander, or a simple backup sub for leavers.

And that is the player experience of the 6th guy. The player experience for that guy will be awful. Arenanet will never compromise on fun like that, and instead opt for.. the numerous 4v5 prevention methods already announced? This subject is poorly timed, lol. Wait 2-3 days.

Point 6 of my original post already addresses this:

5) In a game with no leavers or disconnects, each time a player dies, they take over the commander role for a minimum of 60 seconds – thereby ensuring that everyone has an opportunity to take an active part in the game.

The only scenario where the 6th guy remains as the commander for the whole game is if no one on his team dies, which is very unlikely.

I think that mitigates some of the problem but doesn’t solve it. Lol. It’s just like making the spawn timer increase from 15 seconds to a potentially much higher average downtime penalty on death. That’s hardly a small price to pay for a hypothetical 4v5 fix.

kirito.4138:

Anton.1769:

kirito.4138:

If everyone is using it then it is balanced even playing field. Life ezier for devs. Solution, remove all the other amulet.

1 problem – not all proffs can use it

Sure they can.

So, you’re disagreeing with him on the basis that everybody can literally equip a Celestial Amulet, even if there’s no benefit, or there’s a detriment?

Celestial has equal or less benefit than other Amulets for the majority of professions.

Frandliest Amulet

There is something that nobody in this thread is really taking into account by suggesting a 6th player for either team whether as a Commander, or a simple backup sub for leavers.

And that is the player experience of the 6th guy. The player experience for that guy will be awful. Arenanet will never compromise on fun like that, and instead opt for.. the numerous 4v5 prevention methods already announced? This subject is poorly timed, lol. Wait 2-3 days.

Daroon.1736:

I don’t think I have seen this idea discussed before so I’ll throw it out for discussion.

Whilst it would not 100% ensure that a 4v5 situation never occurs – it would make it a very rare event, tries to overcome the issues associated with other solutions suggested and potentially adds a completely new element to competitive play.

1) Prior to the start of a match 6 players must be present on each team.
2) Again prior to the start of the match, one player either volunteers or is nominated by the team to be the initial “commander”
3) Once nominated to the commander role – that player enters ‘spectator’ mode and once the game commences, they are able to issue commands/information on the state of the play via a chat panel to the rest of their team.
4) In the event of a disconnect or a leaver – the current commander is immediately transported to the base to begin play and 5v5 is maintained with one team having only the advantage of having a commander
5) In a game with no leavers or disconnects, each time a player dies, they take over the commander role for a minimum of 60 seconds – thereby ensuring that everyone has an opportunity to take an active part in the game.

Unfortunately that means that stealth play openers and basically every strategy would be immediately squealed on by a spectator. Nope.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Not to mention why should it be restricted to rifles? Why are we discussing this in the context that shuts out P/S or P/P users, or want to use one of those combinations?

Damage % increase for rifle damage for each gadget and a condition duration or % of condition damage increased for pistol?

I’m sure discluding the Engineer’s other weapon choices was just an error in wording.

Building around Firearms as a main source of damage and grabbing Gadgets/Elixirs to support them, this is clearly an inferior strategy at the moment. I am fine with a Firearms Grandmaster trait to close the gap between Firearms builds and meta ones in PvP.

However, something in which people rarely take into account is that simply sitting in Rifle or Pistols while you chug Elixirs, for example, is a much much much lower skill-cap build than if you threw a kit or two in there. The gap between much easier builds and more challenging ones can’t simply be removed completely..

dancingmonkey.4902:

the weak fried fowl

Lol sorry, do you mean ‘cried foul’? Haha. Fried fowl = KFC?

In the first year, Bunkers were largely unkillable due to obnoxious bugs that were widely exploited. And power has crept up pretty significantly since then.

BlackBeard.2873:

- A GM trait that improves your rifle skills as long as you don’t have a kit equipped. Idea being to make it strong enough without a kit. (It’s already pretty close).

A popular suggestion. I think Arenanet would be hesitant because it’d require some strange game logic for it to work – IE: Checking for kits. Also how would it improve Rifle skills?

BlackBeard.2873:

- Engineers able to (traited?) equip a kit in place of their mainhand weapon? Perhaps you can only do this if its the only kit you have (so you can’t play 4-kit engie). Then you could run nades+3 gadgets/elixirs on your engie.

Actually I think this wouldn’t work out that well. How would you weapon swap your mainhand ‘kit’ weapon to proc all of the good mechanics that require having at least one kit?

Even if you got around that problem, Engineers need to have a ranged attack – the only kit that could realistically replace a Pistol or Rifle in sPvP would be Elixir Gun, for the auto.

Also, there’s no reason why the free utility slots wouldn’t just be taken up by more kits, unless Elixirs and Gadgets become more competitive. I’d just equip this trait, maybe main hand an E-Gun, and use my regular setup.

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

I’m definitely not denying the power of stealths and blocks. I would run the same build everyone is running if I wasn’t so hipster.

Then again, the reason I started playing FT/EG primarily is because of the increase in Warriors and it’s potency against S/D thieves. I found it easier to deal with both those classes with this spec than any other. But now that changes to the Warrior and S/D have happened, my choice may be outdated now so I might have to re-evaluate my stance.

(Select) Warriors and Thieves are going to have a bad day against an Engi of any build. If you’re hip, and still want to compete, equipping Bomb kit instead of Tool Kit, or Slick Shoes instead of Elixir S are cool.

Dirame.8521:

Chaith.8256:

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

You’re right about the benefits of TK/ Elixir S vs FT/EG but you’re wrong about the level of viability that the FT/EG has/had.

Fact is FT/EG was nerfed after the original kit refinement change. If we still had the Super Elixir and Flame Blast from using KR, not even the two Cele Eles would be able to hold FT/EG down. The old FT/EG build was borderline OP and if it was still here today, it would actually be OP.
Now fast forward to today and partly due to the fact that I play it myself and I know how much potential it has, it’s a very good build that no one plays because it’s not being played by top teams. It’s not like you can’t play FT/EG/Elixir S or FT/EG/TK which would fill the holes that you think need fixing in FT/EG/Nade builds. And I think you’re not giving it a fair shake because you prefer what you prefer.

Personally, I play FT/EG/Elixir R. Say what you will but I’m loving it.

When I say it was never good, I meant it was never good after February 2013, 1.75 years ago. There were so many broken builds then it’s not even funny.

Also, most top Engineers on NA are more open to trying new non-meta preferences than you think. I would say they are even sought out. But the expectations are high, the build has to be optimal in scenarios which the Engineer can reliably create in a conquest game against dangerous opponents. Not merely being able to function decently.

I really think that EG/FT are well rounded, moderate damage tools, suited to might stacking and bringing minor utilty. Versus more focused and dangerous opponents, the utility of stealths, blocks, invulns, and stealth pulls scales extremely high. Or the utility of a 4-6s knockdown and Super Speed’s crazy in-combat slipperiness. In life or death situations, I feel the utility that EG/FT provides, which is supposed to be the specialty, – it’s lacking in potency.

Flumek.9043:

Why?

I think it would be one of the best new features if they banned you for playing turets.

Edit: im makking the thread to discuss the ammount of dishnor such behaviour deserves.

Backstabbing gives 1 stack of dishonor if used to hit from the back. Dishonorable Thieves!

In fact any non-warriors should just get 1 stack of dishonor per ability that doesn’t start the tooltip with “Swing/Shoot your _”. Magic is for the dishonorable.