Guild Wars 2

Purecura.1795:

I love playing my turret engi! My Tpvp team loves me as well for the fact that I really play a turret engineer very well. It’s partly due to the fact that I don’t afk at a point just to bunker it. I’m a mobile turret engineer. Yes that means I pick up my turrets and go where I’m needed, until I need to move again. I’m great support as well. I jus don’t understand this hate towards turret engineers.

I guess many do not like those who afk on a point. That I understand because so much more can be done if you are a mobile turret engineer. Anyway, what do all my fellow engineers think?

Sure.

You can be mobile all you would like, but only actually be able to be of any use anywhere else once every 40-50s until Thumper/Rocket Turret come back up.

Meanwhile many builds have no such limitations!

Jerus.4350:

Rozbuska.5263:

Build them all engi can use only 4 its quite easy to get lege these days:-)

4? Pistol, Rifle, Shield, am I missing something? or were you saying make 2 pistols?

Yeah, you’re forgetting Frenzy.

oxtred.7658:

Grenade fireballs is my only reason to play the game.

This suggestion. LMAO.. my sides.

Every ability that applies one bleed will basically be twice as strong, seeing as it wouldn’t be possible for each attack to do a half bleed as you proposed.

bethekey.8314:

And the cycle is complete.

Would you actually post your EG/FT Carrion build.

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

Ya. There’s a reason that I use 3 traits for Mortar there. Most Engies don’t even know that you can throw a Mortar up on a ledge for allies who can just annihilate everything in a 600 radius.

I’ve had tons of success using this strategy and I’ve been doing this for 2 years so of course it’s viable.

I don’t know man. Have you played it in any tournaments? And who really knows what “viable” is anyway?

Most engineers prefer to drop mortar at their feet because of the 100% success rate. No rolly-polly invisible walls for it to get stuck on when throwing it. And kudos to you if you can outplay the raw damage and utility offered by Acidic Elixirs.

Woodstock, the viability of the build is not in question. It was linked by me personally, any further discussion is pointless. It is about making the Mortar naysayers eat crow and giving credit where it is due.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Chaith.8256:

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

Ya. I made some improvements for you, though.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqanUISBWWeFOeBtXGpuQG9rsVDZqrgMQEA-TJBCABAcCAea/BwLDIwDAAA

I literally just burst out laughing. Thank you for making my night. Mortar, AED, Kit Refinement with no kits, packaged stimulants without med kit, three turret traits for mortar, fireforged trigger without FT/EG, rune of the warrior. Comedic gold. Still laughing as I type this.

Awesome.

Ya. There’s a reason that I use 3 traits for Mortar there. Most Engies don’t even know that you can throw a Mortar up on a ledge for allies who can just annihilate everything in a 600 radius.

I’ve had tons of success using this strategy and I’ve been doing this for 2 years so of course it’s viable.

sinject.4607:

given that you main one of the very builds being discussed here, i think you should try to help us understand your entire view on what is balanced and what isn’t (if anything) when it comes to celestial engie.

Well something I end up doing a lot is explaining that the fire field might stacking has nothing to do with reported Cele Engineer builds being really overpowered.

Right there is one big thing wrong with what you said.. saying that Celestial Engineers have a disproportionate amount of viable fire fields and blast finishers on which to call from.

In my opinion, strongest Cele Engineer builds have abysmal blasts & fire fields. Like, no fire fields, and one blast.

And to be honest, choosing might stacking runes when the only conceivable might source is from one sigil, that’s a combo that is not inherently overpowered.

Slap a Celestial Amulet, Battle Sigil, and Hoelbrak runes on anything, and it can stack 9 stacks of might permanently, when swapping on cooldown. All 8 professions have access to this same method, but why is this strategy varying from trash to sub-par on 6/8 professions?

The answer is simply that the combined Engineer’s pool of attacks themselves are super efficient when simultaneously scaling from both Power, Precision, Condition Damage, and Ferocity.

This super high scaling efficiency means that from the stats given from that setup, it deals comparable overall damage to if an Engineer went all in to condition damage alone, or all in to power damage alone.

Comparable damage. Less damage, of course than the Berserker and Rabid counterparts, but comparable damage while having an amulet that grants a moderate defensive boost as well.

Simply put, since Engineers have to choose between additional might stacks to synergize with the rune set, (IE, Flamethrower or Bomb Kit) and the super important Tool Kit, Celestial builds and Rabid builds remain pretty balanced with each other. Because they are so close, I consider Celestial stats to be well balanced. Within 5-10% effectiveness away from rabid options, depending on the scenario. This is mostly because Incendiary Powder and Balthazar runes are strong, and have huge efficiency when the Engineer goes all-in into conditions. People forget about this when they complain about Cele engies.

D/D Ele builds on the other hand have celestial stats jammed down their throats. Cele stats are lightyears ahead of other build types in efficiency. RIP any other playstyles other than Cele D/D, competitively.

I’m no expert on D/D Eles, but I feel that for other stat types to ever come close to being balanced with how efficient Celestial is, there has to be a shift away from the Arcana and Water trait lines, and a shift towards viable setups that rely more on power attacks than hybrid/condition. There has to be an efficient setup for Valk/Knight/Soldiers bruiser Eles.

If you do use Rifle, make sure you answer any smugness from hiding inside Swirling Winds with a prompt Blunderbus, Jump Shot, Prybar.

I don’t see them enough to really get countered by them, though.

style.6173:

(Cele) turret engis all get great used out of it.

No, turret Engi’s power is totally arbitrary. It can’t do hybrid damage that scales with celestial stats.. any damage that Turret Engi does, that can scale, he does purely from rifle power damage. Soldiers is far better.

bethekey.8314:

Chaith.8256

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Pretty good, right?

Ya. I made some improvements for you, though.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqanUISBWWeFOeBtXGpuQG9rsVDZqrgMQEA-TJBCABAcCAea/BwLDIwDAAA

Harbinger.8637:

Celestial isn’t that good, it only really works with ele and engi, and kind of for warrior.

I say just remove the thing. If you nerf it, it just goes back to being useless, and it’s already subpar on most classes. However, if you nerf ele and engi, that doesn’t really help either. That just makes balance even worse.

You see removing the amulet as any different than nerfing it so it never gets used?

If the amulet never gets used either way, whether it’s an option or not, how does that affect balance? Lmao. I feel like you’re taking crazy pills!

bethekey.8314:

Here is the current iteration

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piXX7SyF1LJxIFkuzgekX/2XRFq8nC0H;TkAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNoA

EHHHHH?!

Bran.7425:

Just going to add this. You are never going to see well made additions modes of the PvP as all the balance is centered around Conquest and that does exactly translate well to other modes of play.

So if any aspect of play varies from conquest it will suffer under the need to balance only for conquest.

Hmm. I’m not sure that I agree that all the balance is centered around conquest. There are certainly builds that rely on point-committed people, that would be significantly weakened in a more free-form fighting mode.

However, I think it would just result in some builds being un-used. But to my knowledge, all professions have a decent role or build that can function off of a node just fine.

Look at WvW for example. The meta would probably be closer to a micro snapshot of WvW comps that are commonly run. Just with more balanced stats. Lol.

bethekey.8314:

Against thieves in particular, weakness is devastating and I NEVER see someone using their healing turret for a weakness blast in an opportune moment. I have some additional pointers if you’re looking for them.

More a matter of preferring to pick up the turret or blast heal which has a 100% success rate, ie: can’t be random dodged by the rolly-polly thieves you’re directly trying to counter. It’s riskier, I don’t prefer it for that reason. If I said that I didn’t want additional pointers, would that actually stop the additional pointers from happening? Evidence would say no

bethekey.8314:

Of course. When these things successfully land it is devastating, but that is not unique to a certain build or class. There are also other ways of dealing with them than the obvious invuln skill. For example, do I see any engineer play around stealth pulls by using jump shot for either distance or the pull-canceling effect? No.

Yeah, the Jump Shot / Acid Bomb pull defense isn’t being missed by Engineers because you aren’t seeing it, watch some Mistpedia 2v2 cups vs. stealth pull happy Engineers.

bethekey.8314:

This is one of the things I hate most. There is no doubt that stealth pulling with the Elixir S toolbelt is strong, because there is such little counterplay available to counter the short setup required and the duration of stealth. It made me sad to watch certain engineers suddenly increase in “ability” and competitive relevance just because they learned how to stealth pull, pry bar, and swap kits in sequence. I understand wanting to take advantage of a broken mechanic to perform better, but I don’t believe this belongs in the PvP of any actually competitive game.

It’s interesting that you go off on a tangent against players that use the abilities on their bars to the fullest, after you look down on every Engineer for failing in that. Okay, Elixir S and Toolkit synergy makes noobs into heroes. Okay, the mechanic is ‘broken’. Well, it is extremely potent, and after having the potent ability to easily catch people off-guard in matches, it redefines what is viable.

You just have a high-horse grudge against stronger builds that are more forgiving, more reliable, less risky, and can function better under counter-pressure. I understand you don’t use what to you is ‘cheese’, but that’s simply because you are a masochist that is under the impression that working twice as hard playing the keybind-piano flawlessly under no-counter pressure situations means that your build is just as efficient or effective as others.

bethekey.8314:

I do not even play Cele with the build normally. Utilizing combos correctly with pseudo-toughness skills like Protection Injection make the higher damage of Carrion + Intelligence better.

How about you post your build? Twitch.tv/woodstockgw2 appears to be only footage of Raid of the Capricorn, and your Youtube channel build is a year old. Share your playstyle if it’s so viable instead of just crapping on players that run meta builds and who are too mechanically bad to use Carrion EG/FT confidently.

bethekey.8314:

I have never run Backpack Regenerator. Having shorter cooldowns on FT/EG skills and knowing how to properly blast fields results in more relevant burst healing and utility over time.

Kudos to you if you can outplay the utility of 7,020-8,340 free healing a minute (berserker and cele respectively) by having 20% recharge reduction on FT/EG. Skipping overpowered, hard to counter options in favor of increasing the skill cap slightly – it’s very manly but not very honest in what’s going to actually to give you the best chance at success.

bethekey.8314:

I do apologize if I come off as smug, but after hearing “your build is not viable” so many times after consistently winning (with every form of the build) and being ranked as one of the top engineers with it, I am starting to question other people’s concept of viable. Especially when I see those same people fail to make full and creative use of all of the skills available to them.

This whole thread is about FT/EG being viable, but it’s only 50% about the build, and 50% a tug to your own peen about how you know all the combos that you guys probably haven’t even heard of huehue.

Perhaps you want to increase the focus on the build, and sell us on what’s so mechanically strong about hybrid Carrion EG/FT/Nade Engineer that makes it better than hybrid Celestial with Backpack Regenerator?

bethekey.8314:

Even the “top” engis like backpack or chaith fail to capitalize on this when I watch them.

Since you literally called me out by name, (thanks buddy) I figured I’d drop my 2c.

I have to ask, what combos are you watching “top” engies for? In the serious PvP build, the only field that the majority of Engineers run is Water, and the only blast I have is Detonate Healing Turret. Haha. I work the blast finishers all the time, dunno what you mean. F1 Water field + Jump Shot is done pretty much on the regular as well.

bethekey.8314:

It’s even viable in pvp! I’ve achieved top 20 ranks in both team and solo pvp with a ft/eg/nades build and it’s not even hard. Just learn to utilize blast finishers every time you use one.

I do like the build a lot, I’ve played enough of Cele NADE/EG/FT. It’s super strong when you learn to blast Napalm 3 times every 30s using 2 Flame Blasts and Acid Bomb. I also like Cele Nade/EG/Bombs. And Cele HgH Rifle. And Berserker air/fire sigil static discharge.

I don’t prefer builds that skip both Elixir S and Tool Kit. That’s because a big complaint of mine is that they often succumb to a single immobilize & focus fire. The lack of a block, invuln, and stealth greatly improve the quality of life for 2+ enemies that are interested in sticking to you, and spiking you.

Running with no Elixir S or Toolkit is a good way to underestimate your opponents ability to perform plays that you can’t just pre-emptively counter with great positioning and situational awareness.

There are times when you get stealth pulled. There are times when you can’t stunbreak and of course not random dodge an instant Doom into Dark Path & condi spam. There are times when Mirror Blade + shatter from stealth happens, and a thief simultaneously hops on you from 1500 distance away, etc.

Also the lack of a stealth pull, or pull for that matter, makes it lose a considerable amount of initiating ability.

I feel if Leg Mods & Hoelbrak are used in tandem, running with few defensive cooldowns can become bearable, though.

bethekey.8314:

It’s ironic that every single 3 kit rifle build was taboo before the recent buffs to celestial stats, when the same stats were achievable with jewels before that. It’s also a good build for jumping out of maps! But, that video of mine has been removed. It is still possible to jump out of every pvp map, however, I won’t upload another video like that.

I wouldn’t really say the same stats or effectiveness were achievable with jewel customization before.

Running Berserker Amulet with EG/FT/Nades is just as unforgiving as it’s always been. It may have lost the ability to jewel swap, but if you’re saying that it’s always been viable, I strongly disagree.

The raw stat budget has been increased by a lot via Cele amulet, making more substantial and efficient builds than if you would have traded 200 stats comprised of Power and Precision for 200 stats comprised of Condition Damage and Healing with an old jewel swap.

Suddenly all the options that point towards hybrid damage composition (most Engi damage traits & abilities) gained the viability granting stats in PvP. E-Gun, FT, Nades, these three kits are so made for Cele stats.

Your favorite berserker builds always brought Incendiary Powder, Backpack Regenerator, and Elixir Gun sustain. Can you see how having a ton more condition damage and healing power has made that build undeniably better?

3 Kit Rifle builds just weren’t as good as other builds, pre-cele stats. Adding 10 blasts a minute to Flamethrower also has increased the viability in Flamethrower PvE.

I’m just happy your underdog build finally got some love. But please stop downplaying all the buffs, and continuing the smug attitude about how it’s so funny that everyone’s been dumb not to recognize your now somewhat viable, but heavily buffed builds that you ran in the past when they were in fact, quite sub-par.

Iason Evan.3806:

Chaith.8256:

Firelysm.4967:

Chaith.8256:

Keep playing the game and when you reach the next level of mastery these balance problems will fix themselves, from your perspective. Trust.

2 months is more than enough to see that game is far from balanced.
Let’s just say i was playing GW1 for 3+ years in pvp, and i know when things aren’t in shape.

I don’t have to waste more time to notice how unbalanced game is, some people need years to see that, some of us live for PvP, and know when things are not in shape. If this works for you, fine, but be realistic that this game needs separated balancing, else we will never get a PvP on professional level as GW1 was.

Kk. But the reason why professional PvP levels in GW2 haven’t compared to GW1 were for reasons different than relative profession balance.

And yes, you need more than 2 months to escape the hell that is low skill-cap builds and cheese that acts as an unstoppable barrier for new players. Once you truly learn your matchups and make intelligent rotations, and you still blame profession balance, I will eat these words.

I think what the OP is getting at is that there needs to be skill splits. Skill splits would actually promote some really great creativity in PvE skill design without messing with the balance in PvP. They already do it in little ways. All I know is when they decided that skill splitting would happen in GW1, it benefited all formats.

Developers are vehemently against skill splitting, due to a lack of consistency across game modes. Unless it’s deemed absolutely necessary, which at the moment I don’t believe it is, skill splitting won’t happen. *Shrug, just telling it how it is, I don’t hold a strong opinion on skill splits in particular.

Firelysm.4967:

Chaith.8256:

Keep playing the game and when you reach the next level of mastery these balance problems will fix themselves, from your perspective. Trust.

2 months is more than enough to see that game is far from balanced.
Let’s just say i was playing GW1 for 3+ years in pvp, and i know when things aren’t in shape.

I don’t have to waste more time to notice how unbalanced game is, some people need years to see that, some of us live for PvP, and know when things are not in shape. If this works for you, fine, but be realistic that this game needs separated balancing, else we will never get a PvP on professional level as GW1 was.

Kk. But the reason why professional PvP levels in GW2 haven’t compared to GW1 were for reasons different than relative profession balance.

And yes, you need more than 2 months to escape the hell that is low skill-cap builds and cheese that acts as an unstoppable barrier for new players. Once you truly learn your matchups and make intelligent rotations, and you still blame profession balance, I will eat these words.

coglin.1867:

The most meta of builds, at least by forums post, build web sites, videos, streams, and tournaments, it is grenades/tool kit/elixir s.

Oh, rest assured, he definitely meant PvE, no reason to bring up WvW or PvP.

I know little of PvE land in this MMO, but knowing Engineer, I don’t doubt his claims – only that it’s missing bomb kit which I’ve heard many claiming is god in PvE for the Auto-attack.

DiogoSilva.7089:

lordkrall.7241:

Why queue up for a match if you are not going to join a match though?

Usually because of a sudden/ unexpected change of plans.

Isn’t that why check-ready pop ups exist in the first place?

Look man, there are tons of people that suddenly or unexpectedly become unable to play the match, but don’t leave queue. That’s a factor in why so many 4v5s exist currently.

Instead of being roped down with an AFK person who gets booted, that person will get the boot beforehand, not incur a loss for himself, (merely a small time-out).

Many players have no sympathy for people who queue and do RL stuff without leaving queue, after all the 4v5’s that others have been forced to endure. Yet it is a massive QOL increase for the typical ‘queue up and then suddenly AFK’ person. Just recognize it for what it is, a huge improvement.

It fool-proofs the fools that unexpectedly leave to do RL stuff without leaving queue.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Evan Lesh.3295:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Are you saying that if a ready check pops up, and for some reason out of sudden I decide to cancel my match by clicking the “cancel” button in the prompt, I get immediately “dishonored”?

Yes, this is how it works. Otherwise people would just grief the queue over and over. The amount of dishonor you get for declining the match is minor, so it really shouldn’t affect well-intentioned players. We’re talking about minutes here, not days like in the old system.

I understand the idea, but it does seems a bit too stressful to “well-intentioned players” compared to how some other games do it.

Is it possible to get a compromise? For example, why not having dishonor only kick in if the player declices a match two+ times in a row, and/ or too many times a day?

Why are you gonna stress about a few minute timeout? It’s not the same kind of dishonor. It’s not even going to be like the 30 minute ‘deserter’ debuffs across many mmos/mobas.

Fantastic.5298:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Nabrok.9023:

For map voting, is there a “random” or “I don’t really care which map” option, similar to Mario Kart track selection?

If you don’t pick a map, there will just be 9/10 selection that are rolled on.

What happens if there is a tie?

Read the article, it’s weighted roll, not an outright selection.

Firelysm.4967:

Chaith.8256:

You’re talking profession skills and balance? Hardly any character building options are balanced in PvE, and evidently, it doesn’t stop players from getting into that game mode, en masse!

Balance PvP. I’m not against balancing PvE, but that’d have to be happening for your argument to work.

Sure I am.
As long as Arena net will balance skills for PvP and PvE together they will achieve only that things are no OVERPOWERED. But that way you cannot balance PvP, there for no matter how hard they try, PvP will stay unbalanced.

I’ve played GW1 PvP for 3 years straight, and enjoyed it, played GW2 PvP for about 2 months, and never liked it, i just forced myself to play the game just to stick around, but i’m slowly tired to see barely any changes.

Ok we got announced some match making and stuff, but what about balancing PvP itself? Lets be honest here, pvp is far from balanced, and that’s not hard to tell.
That’s why i’m suggesting arena net, to separate PvP skill balancing from PvE balancing, just like we had in GW1, and it’s about time, that we get some serious PvP changes.

Since you said, ’let’s be honest’ I think that the PvP profession and skills balance is the most balanced it’s ever been.

There are often multiple archetypes per profession that can compete in the most competitive tPvP, and each profession has at least one great one.

It’s apparent to me that in the two months you’ve been playing PvP, you’re running into a lot of the low-skill, good-reward starter archetypes for new players. To a new player in Hotjoin or Soloq, Turret Engineers, Hambow Warriors, PU Mesmers, Shadow Arts thieves can be a brick wall.

Keep playing the game and when you reach the next level of mastery these balance problems will fix themselves, from your perspective. Trust.

You’re talking profession skills and balance? Hardly any character building options are balanced in PvE, and evidently, it doesn’t stop players from getting into that game mode, en masse!

Balance PvP. I’m not against balancing PvE, but that’d have to be happening for your argument to work.

cheese.4739:

johnpoc.8732:

DeceiverX.8361:

People would QQ even harder about QZ + RF ranger.

Again.

RF would be so fast one dodge would be enough to totally avoid the skill

Or pop reflects and the zerker dies from their own arrows before they realise ^__^

Nerfing Quickness down from 100% was a great idea at the time.

Nerfing Quickness to 50% was never a good idea at all. Quickness went from hero to zero.

I think that makes it pretty clear that quickness should be at 75%!

Seeing as win/loss have no impact on your in-game experience, I don’t see the point.

I like being able to see how many games people have played. “Oh, I just reset my win/loss info, I had 10k tourney wins before so I know what I’m talking about.” Nope.

Iason Evan.3806:

Justin ODell.9517:

Iason Evan.3806:

What’s to keep people from queue-ing as a profession they don’t regularly play so that they enter the match at a lower rank and then swapping to a profession they do play a lot?

Leaving the PvP lobby will remove you from the queue.

What I mean is, I enter the match on my garbage Thief. We are waiting for the match to begin. I then swap to my really good Ranger. How is that handled?

Thanks for the awesome replies though!

Yes. It does not appear that the system can stop players altering their matchmaking by waiting in queue on an alt, and switching mid-game.

Maybe switching characters can finally be disabled????

coglin.1867:

Personally, I think having runes specific to gadgets, similar to runes specific to shouts or signet might help. Look at runes of resistance. They give aegis on signet use. Negative condition duration. Full stat compliment, although it is toughness. Runes of the trooper remove a condition on use of a shout. If we had a rune option that benefits gadgets in that manner, it could be a game changer for gadgets.

Like this?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper

Never made it to PvP, but I do see a slight theme.

Traps are used my 2 professions, Signets by 7, but Gadgets only once. If some gadget form of this still makes it through to PvP, that would indeed be interesting.

RIP Skyhammer.

I mean BIH Skyhammer.

(Burn in hell)

Phantaram.1265:

One of these days the internet will get my name right.

Go back to your cave, Fataram

Thiefz.3695:

Quick question. If I went and used 4/4/0/6/0 and used acid coated elixirs, could I strip the stability off of lich form for a necro?

Yeah you can do that if no other/few boons are present. Beware though… Elixir S toss will basically become useless as it will cast reveal on you instead of stealth the majority of the time.

I broke the page

MonMalthias.4763:

In my opinion, the way forward for Gadgets is not a megabuff to Gadgeteer but perhaps in the form of revamping some traits in Inventions instead.

How about if Static Shock instead transferred a Control effect? This would effectively make SS a pseudo-stunbreak – if you could hit with it. So it would look like thus:
Static Shock

• 0.25 cast (Control effect Transfer (Stun, Daze, Fear, Launch, Push, Pull, Knockdown, Sink)
• Transfer 1 Control effect with its remaining duration to target foe.
• 400 range
• Cooldown 30 seconds
• Power Coefficient 1.00 (770 damage at 2000 Power against 2600 Armour target and 1000 weapon strength weapon)

Thus AED becomes the ultimate master baiter – giving massive heals and full cleanses when opponents “kill” you; and turning their own CC against them. It also at a stroke solves Engineer’s problems with being CC chained into oblivion – without resorting to the hard counter that is Stability uptime.

I really like the CC transfer on A.E.D. The only problem is that you have a cast time on it, which means that you can’t activate it when CC effects are on you.. it has to be instant.

The only problem is that the healing per second of A.E.D is not addressed. The Engineer actively shuts down his own sustain simply by not throwing his body at the enemy every time that A.E.D is up. The harsh A.E.D heal condition has the Engineer getting no sustain, sitting on the heal for a long time, until it’s time to die. Meanwhile, other heals are blasting away throughout the whole fight, keeping the Engineer topped. Using A.E.D, I forgot what having a full health meter looked like. There needs to be healing per second while A.E.D is NOT on cooldown. Otherwise it’s like…. "Why are you avoiding damage and dodging things? Just sit in all the damage so you don’t starve yourself of sustain, dummy! And then you realize that eating a ton of damage all the time is not good for sustain either.*

Now, responding to your proposed changes to Inventions. The way you address the agreed upon issues seems to be not light-weight enough. It’s too intrusive on the Inventions trait line, removing traits that are still alive (even if its a zombie playstyle), adding dead weight to minors, and only accomplishes a gadget-only substitute for sustain.

You also say that it’s an alternative to Alchemy, IE, Backpack Regenerator. However, it’s going to be much more beneficial to ditch Tools and pick both sustain lines up. In your plan, Gadgeteer is still god awful, and now can’t even combo boon duration from Alchemy, if players pick up the proposed inventions traits.

Your changes kind of rely on Gadgeteer being good, actually, to increase the synergy with running more and more gadgets. Let’s be real, builds run a kit and a stunbreak, so players can only really take one Gadget and one Gadget stunbreak (long cooldown), so the synergy of lots of Gadget use in tandem with your proposed traits can never be really tapped as you’ve balanced them for.

I feel that when Gadgets are traited, they need to be balanced around being stand alone in a build. Whether as a stand alone stunbreak, or a stand alone utility damage/defense supplement. I like that you have triple-quad gadget builds in mind, but it’s double gadget builds that should be balanced.

Also, don’t feel bad for relying on Backpack Regenerator and Healing Turret for 8 condition removal a minute and a combined 27k healing per minute, and 10k allied healing per minute, up to 4 other people. The need for a gadget-only version of Alchemy’s sustain is not necessarily there.

insanemaniac.2456:

if you double the damage of pbr itll be pretty much unignorable
though idk if i would take pbr + ….say… rb over slicks + mine.

If you had Personal Battering Ram, Rocket Boots, and a stunbreak, I feel your damage would be so abysmally low, even running a glass build will won’t enable you to kill anything with sustained healing.

It’d be like: Use Rifle skills, Rocket Kick, Launch Battering Ram………………. hip shot for 15 seconds until skills recharge. RIP damage. Double Gadgets just leave you with no abilities. Also it’s why it’s freakin’ hard to get enough damage rolling with Rocket Boots eating up that utility slot in the build.

That’s why I elected to give dedicated Gadgeteers that Rocket Boots stunbreak so there’s another option for taking 2 Gadgets, and still have one slot for a kit!

Booms.2594:

guardian ofcourse

Oh really? Should be a free win for NA at the WTS event then. I guess Tage will be too heavy to carry. :P

/<(Sarcasm font)>

Booms.2594:

your class might not really be tPvP ready.

Name 1 class

We don’t all go through this pre-game ritual before matches.

It’s all about having well rounded builds in your repertoire. And avoiding matchups that expose you to your counter, if there is one. Switch up a sigil, 2 trait points, a utility, but if your build gets shut down too hard by X, your build might not really be tPvP ready.

SenorMoody.5908:

I would love to see some new useful Elites added to every class.
Here are some of my ideas.

Engineer
- Gadget – Air-Strike – allows you to mark a large area with a ground target which will begin a 10 second countdown. When the countdown is over an air strike is launched dealing massive damage over a large area.

Portable Skyhammer confirmed?

Ranger
- Shout – Stampede – Calls five of your pets forth to assist in battle for 45 sec (randomly chosen from your kitten nal of acquired pets)

Summoning a mob of A.I isn’t fun to me.

Thief
- Trick – Heist – Gives the Steal ability a zero cooldown for 20 seconds, and causes Initiative to regenerate 50 percent faster for the duration

LMAO, …………………………… When traited, steal 20 times in a row, healing the thief 40k, stealing 40 boons, and dazing the foe for 20 seconds. Alright, chap.

Warrior
- Shout – On your Feet – Raises 5 downed allies in a 20 meter radius and grants Regeneration, Protection, and Retaliation to all who were affected.

It’s called Warbanner

Guardian
- Spirit Weapon – Storm of Blades – Surrounds you in many spirit daggers that grants Aegis (every 10 sec) and Retaliation, Protection, and Regeneration for the duration. Activating the skill again causes several of the blades to shoot forth as a ranged attack that causes burning and does significant damage.

Cool.

Elementalist
- Arcane – Supernova – A powerful pulsating blast of arcane energy that deals very high damage and triggers a blast finisher every 5 seconds for 25 seconds

25 seconds is too long to deny an area, but cool.

Mesmer
- Manipulation – Twist of Fate – Allows you to first set a ground targeted “destination portal”, then target up to 5 enemies with a ground targeted “Trigger Portal”, instantly teleporting the targeted group to your “destination portal” and causing Blindness, Chill, Confusion X 3, and Cripple.

5 Enemies might be a bit much.

Necromancer
- Spectral – Nightmare – Causes Chill, Confusion, blind, cripple, poison, and Torment to any enemy that gets within 20 meters of the Necromancer for 30 seconds. Remaining within the radius stacks conditions. At the end of the skill’s duration, a Nightmarish blast fears all enemies within range for 8 seconds and triggers a blast finisher.

Might as well just have it delete every enemy character while you’re at it. This is AIDS.

Sadrien.3470:

I personally would love a gadget engi to be viable, it think i would play it. I love the boons idea and i basically find engi to not have enough dps when on zerker gadgets and little survivability compare to other builds so how do we plan to make gadgets better in these ways?

Lack of raw dps on Gadgets is definitely a concern. These are supposed to be replacing kits and providing the Engineers with their main abilities.

It’s just a simple matter of how much follow through that the ability can do. Some Gadgets really just have no potential to do anything that scary.

Personal Battering Ram is a prime example. A single low-damage knock back into a single medium-damage crippling projectile?

Compare to throw Mine, which actually has good follow-through. An AoE knock back that you can set as an unblockable trap, and a very high damage point-blank AoE nuke that strips boons. The only problem is just how hard it is to land..

I’m not even sure what to suggest so that Personal Battering Ram could be worth a slot. Perhaps significantly increase the damage of the knockback and make it into a cone? The projectile is not that bad, on a 15 second cooldown.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jerus.4350:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I think this might make engi’s a little too strong. Right now they are pretty balanced around sacrificing kits for other useful utilities that offer better condi removal or stun breaks.

On normal weapon I have all my kits.

When I go to Grenades I’ll have Elixer B and U
When I go to FT I’ll have Rocket Boots and Goggles
When I go Elixer Gun I’ll have my other Elixers.

I can dig this

Right!? It would be incredibly fun to play, and probably a little challenging, but a good player would be unstoppable as an engi. It would legitimately be over powered.

Yeah I think this suggestion was doomed from the first syllable

Sep-

No.

insanemaniac.2456:

Sorel.4870:

I’m curious, why do you think Rocket Boots are underpowered? It’s a blast finisher, break immob and a forward leap on a 20s cooldown, and it even removes cripple and chill! If it was a breakstun, it would be straight OP. It’s so good I even prefer it to EG in WvW, because it is so much stronger than EG #4 than the other abilities can’t even the match. Utility Goggles could still use a buff, even if it is rather good in a SD build. Slick Shoes are good in bunker builds, but could still need a bit of love.

i can only speak for myself but i dont think rocket boots are underpowered. i think gadgets are underpowered and that creating a build with gadgets as the core focus will make you lose and die etc more than a kit focused build would. chaiths goal with buffing gadgeteer is to make it worth taking more than 1 gadget so that you can focus on gadgets as a core, complemented by a couple other things. buffing gadgets to provide much better functionality when you dedicate a lot of trait points is an ok way to do that (problems arise when you change the use cases too much and it becomes ambiguous to the opponents, such as adding a stunbreak in when traited… how does the opponent know if it stunbreaks or not without a priori knowledge? the knowledge would distinctly change the opponents play pattern.).

anyways, all of the uses you mention are a gadget complementing a completely different build. would you go 6 in tools to get the stunbreak in a nades/rb/tk nades-centric build? (actually i think i might, which would be a potential issue). would you take 6 tools in a bunker build to get bigger puddles on slick shoes? probably not, but a gadget build would definitely get something more enticing out of slick shoes when they should want to consider it anyways.

eh, idk if im making sense here.

Nope you’re making sense. You’re right, I would rather pave the way for double gadget builds and beyond.

I don’t want to give the current meta builds a better stunbreak option.

Running a Gadget traited build could be used with grenades, but you couldn’t put 4 points in Alchemy, which is a huge survivability hit for all Engineers in PvP. The fact that you’re gaining a shorter cooldown stunbreak is even balanced on the side of caution, in my opinion. Transmute and Backpack Regenerator are OP.

Running a Gadget focused build could be used with 4 points in Alchemy, this is my preference, but that means no Grenaderino. That’s where hopefully Throw Mine and/or Personal Battering Ram (PBR not likely to ever be usable, lmao) shine, when fully traited up, so the engineer can actually do the damages.

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s a shame, I tried to run a HGH Flamethrower build and while the damage was there the sustain simply isn’t. Even with 409 the cleanse on Elixirs isn’t that good.

Very true about the 409 cleanse. When you’re loaded with conditions, casting a 1 second heal, and then throwing 3 more Elixirs at a 1/2 second cast, that whole process takes like, 2.5-3s to pull off, removing 3-4 conditions. Those elixirs that were tossed have about a 30 second cooldown, except the heal, which is 20. It’s honestly not much better than Healing Turret, untraited, haha.

Sorel.4870:

I’m curious, why do you think Rocket Boots are underpowered? It’s a blast finisher, break immob and a forward leap on a 20s cooldown, and it even removes cripple and chill! If it was a breakstun, it would be straight OP. It’s so good I even prefer it to EG in WvW, because it is so much stronger than EG #4 than the other abilities can’t even the match. Utility Goggles could still use a buff, even if it is rather good in a SD build. Slick Shoes are good in bunker builds, but could still need a bit of love.

Slick Shoes are already competitive in PvP! They were just buffed by having Super Speed cooldown reduced by 33% and Slick Shoes cooldown reduced by 25%.

Rocket boots are great, but as far as PvP goes, the utility slot it competes for is too competitive! Also, consider for Rocket Boots to break stun, by taking this trait, it will require the Engineer to either abandon Grenades, or Backpack Regenerator.

It may seem like Rocket Boots would be bloated, but.. I consider it just about never optimal in PvP. Open WvW roaming I’m sure it is fine.

Yeah everyone experiences it but it doesn’t affect much. The stomp takes just as long to perform, and when somebody is stealthed on top of your downed body, it’s pretty clear what to expect.

BlackBeard.2873:

The only reason I can think of them NOT letting Elixir traits affect E-gun at this point is the dangerous potential that has to buff the meta spec.

It wouldn’t be hard at all to go 30 up alchemy to take cleansing formula 409 and take E-gun to get 4x cleanse (you get 1 from super elixir already), still keep a stunbreak, and have the power of perma-weakness added to an already super-strong spec.

Perhaps move backpack regenerator to tools or inventions to prevent this, or do you not think that would be OP?

Egun helps just about every 1v1 matchup for the Engineer, but it’s ability to keep the Engineer alive falls off the bigger the fights become.

But honestly, you bring up a good point, it would provide Cele rifle a more 1v1 focused option which the universe might not be able to handle right now.

BlackBeard.2873:

Not really a comment on the balance-changes, but a big part of the reason why so many other builds don’t see play is how strong/reliant engies are on kits. It’s really hard for an engie to get by with just mainhand weapons, and even single-kit can be a struggle (and usually ends up being nade kit, so lose 6 trait points right there).

It’s also really hard for 2 skills (main + toolbelt) to compete with 6 skills. If you are gonna take something defensive, the block on gear shield is almost as strong as anything a single other utility can give.

One way you could get around this with elixirs is to give it some more kind of synergy with elixir gun. Perhaps integrate E-gun traits with straight up elixir traits and allow them to cross-pollinate. Sure, cleansing formula 409 can’t work on every skill on the gun, but maybe allow it proc on the toolbelt and skill 5 (it didn’t last time I checked). In-fact, having super-elixir helps make up for not having backpack regenerator a little bit.

Edit: changed “30 trait points” to “6 trait points” to reflect the newer system.

Elixir Gun synergy with Elixirs is an amazing idea that was scrapped what appears to be pre-launch.

It was probably broken then, but I think it’s an appropriate time to bring it back.

Edit: And yes, it’s hard to build enough synergy to compete with kits that start out amazing. One kit is doable though. But that’s the bare minimum.

Lack of Sustain:

Giving up Backpack Regenerator and Healing Turret in favor of Elixir H creates a huge drop in healing per minute. Without healing power, Elixir builds drop about 16,680 healing per minute on themselves from Elixir H. Ignoring Regen on both Healing Turret and Elixirs (it’s random on Elixirs,) and assuming Healing Turret is picked up, Meta builds drop about 27,180 healing per minute on themselves from Healing Turret and Backpack Regenerator. They also drop 10,080 healing on up to 5 allies. LOL.

For traited Elixir builds to match the sustain of meta builds, they’d have to increase their healing done to themselves per minute by 63%, and they’d still be giving up potential 10k friendly healing a minute.

There is just a massive balance discrepancy here.

• I suggest that the trait ‘Potent Elixirs’ be buffed. Currently it’s a master level trait used approximately never, under any circumstances, and increases the duration of elixirs by 20%. I suggest that a healing effect be added to it. New trait: Potent Elixirs: Increases elixir durations and elixirs heal those affected. Healing: 800. Still won’t come close, but it’s a fair option, considering you either sacrifice HgH or condition removal.

I think an Elixir re-vamp would be super welcome. Mostly just wishful thinking though!

Comment on balance of my suggestions if you can.

Edit:

Please remove the damage component on Acidic Elixirs. It causes Elixir S to apply revealed instead of stealth.. it’s kind of a joke within a joke.

I do look back fondly on the days of HgH builds being used competitively in PvP. Looking back on Elixir traits and utilites, It’s been a while since I would have considered using more than one Elixir, on my Engineer.

There are big things choking the diversity of Engi builds in PvP. As it stands right now, the advantage that the meta Engineer builds have over Elixir builds are that the sustain numbers are better, with only a small hit to condition removal, and frees up a utility slot for another kit. Elixir builds have become extremely inefficient in contrast.

• Backpack Regenerator. This trait heals 7,020 every 60 seconds, base. Equipping Celestial amulet increases this number about 19%. That’s like, not quite as 1/3 of a Healing Signet just from a trait alone. There’s never really a time where having a baby-healing signet is going to be bad. It’s simply a no brainer in PvP.

• Healing Turret. Compared to running 3 Elixirs, and Cleaning Formula 409, Healing Turret has more infrequent but comparable condition removal, untraited. Neither are that impressive, at around 8-10 condition removals a minute for fully traited Elixirs, and 6-8 for Healing Turret. It’s one or the other, so they are mutually exclusive.

Proposal:

Make some tweaks to Elixirs so when they’re fully traited, they’re more competitive an option, compared with just taking Backpack Regenerator and Healing Turret alone. Could possibly accompany a shave to Healing Turret and Backpack Regenerator.

Areas of concern:

• Randomness on Elixirs (I’m about to go ham on this one)
• Lack of sustain

Randomness of Elixirs.

Across PvP communities of all genres, there’s one thing that’s shared, and that is a hatred of significant, game changing effects being managed by RNG. First up, there’s the ever-infuriating Elixir X.

“Rampage please, Rampage please, Rampage please, DANGIT!” -Engineers 2012-2014

• I suggest that a 50% health threshold is imposed into the ability. Above the health threshold, Tornado is activated. This makes sense because using Tornado at low health is EXTREMELY dangerous due to how squishy and helpless it is. Conversely, this gives Engineers a bit of a negative condition – Rampage (the one you want 90% of the time) can only be achieved sub-50% health. That’s reducing it somewhat to a come-back mechanic that can’t just be activated at will. Have the on-bar Elixir X Icon change colors from purple to blood red when it’s ready to rampage. Make it so. (Elementalist Summon Pet Elite was changed in this way, recently)

Second up is the randomness of Elixir H. It’s frustrating never knowing exactly how much protection, vigor, or regeneration your build has.

• I suggest that the Protection, Regen, and Swiftness, Vigor across the toss ability and the drink ability to be reduced by 50%. Yes. Base reduced by 50%. However, instead rolling for a boon, give all 3 boons per ability in a reduced form. Now I can reactively put up a small protection and swiftness. Thanks.

• I suggest the same be done to Toss Elixir B. Drinking Elixir B already gives all the buffs that it advertises.

Third up is the always forgotten Elixir U. The one that gives you quickness, and in exchange, debuffs you with frenzy, or removes all of your endurance and cuts endurance gain by 50%. This one is like that relative you hate but always have to socialize with on Christmas.

• I suggest the drink ability be changed entirely. Who needs quickness for that cost? New ability: Elixir U: Drink Elixir U, causing light to emit from your body, destroying projectiles and blinding enemies every second. Radius: 180. Duration: 4s. Breaks Stun. 40 Second recharge.

Frenk.5917:

Chaith.8256:

I think Frenk was referring to my initial idea for Utility Goggles to prevent conditions from being applied. Like a mini berserker stance. Or adding a small regen to A.E.D while you’re saving it forever, for when you go down. That mechanic is a little reminiscent of Healing Signet.

Precisely. AED and Utility Goggles would become mini zerker stance and mini healing signet. I believe there are better ways to improve those skills.

I do like, in fact, the 100% increase of boons idea.

Elixirs, Gadgets, I so want for these to be usable. They’re so cool. I’d take boons if it worked!

Sure, the only problem is that it becomes abusable and anybody who cares about their leaderboard ranking might be tempted to either AFK out or get somebody else to, when losing.