Guild Wars 2

insanemaniac.2456:

Chaith.8256:

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

strength runes, not the same
phalanx strength, not the same
engis in the dungeon meta, not the same
cele gear/amulet, not the same

hmm what else has changed about might stacking builds since 2012 thats brought them into the spotlight… does more widespread game knowledge count? not really eh? ascended gear doesnt really count altho the ~5% damage buff is there…

Yeah actually before Strength Rune’s 45%+ to might, Might Stacking builds used to run 2Str/2Hoel/2/Fire and get +60% to might for might stacking builds.

Blasting might from fire fields didn’t grab huge power creep. The high might stacking options were not buffed in recent times, not even by strength runes, contrary to what some may think.

P.S., Cele Amulet has no interaction with might stacking.

In the past, particularly Engineer might stacking options were far superior. HgH builds and Enhanced Performance trait not competing with Incendiary Powder, both huge blows to the might stacking playstyle.

Bhawb.7408:

Power creep is bad. If one single field out of every single one is obviously far stronger than all the rest, it should be nerfed. The game has had enough power creep already.

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.

Fire Fields, the same since 2012.

pupi.2465:

Vengeance
Rally and fight normally for a brief time. When the rally ends, you are defeated.
Duration: 15 s

*Cannot contest points in sPvP or WvW while under its effect.

The issue (needs to be balanced) due to the observation above, in a group situation, downed enemies should not rally when you die under vengeance effect (once others downed their enemies while the nearest warrior was on vengeance).

Vengeance is probably the strongest of the downed state 3 skills.. most 3 skills just have a damaging attack or another delay for 3 seconds. Vengeance you can get up delay the rally for 15 seconds, or stomp an enemy, revive allies, do full bursts to your enemies. It’s good.

For you to say: “Dying from Vengeance shouldn’t rally enemies!” that basically means that using Vengeance completely robs the enemies of getting a rally for defeating you fair and square. And it would remove the logic behind using vengeance properly, as you’d never have to balance the repercussions of using it.

No.

Edit: Having the Rally to enemies happen when the Warrior uses vengeance would be interesting, though. That way it wouldn’t be so lame in downed fights, and the Warrior could actually know if he will possibly rally enemies, rather than the realization happening 10 seconds later that he just screwed his team.

Booms.2594:

lol guard is definitely not NA meta

Yep. The meta core being Ele, Engi, Thief, or Ele, Ele, Thief, those other 5 professions where I mentioned Guardian are optional. Meta =/= optional. Kk. Did you really think I was saying that all 8 professions are ‘meta’?

For anyone else thats actually wondering about Guardians viability, if a team wants to run a Guardian and use the appropriate strategy, ie: playing for 2 points, forcing teamfights, and decapping, that can be done, it is competitive.

Anastasis.7258:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Lupanic.6502:

Ostricheggs.3742:

style.6173:

Elxdark.9702:

Lupanic.6502:

Lupanic.6502:

who played for Abjured ? Noscoc and caed did not, right?

Does someone know ?

If I’m correct :

-Toker
-Oeggs
-Wakkey
-Phanta
-Chaith

Is this abjured or good fights? Can’t really tell. Not sure the point of qualifiers if people just rebuild their team.

Regardless, there needs to a replay of the NA event. Right now, the tournament is a disgrace. Not what ANET wanted for their first WTS event.

The point isn’t to rebuild the team and we had no intentions to do so. We found great replacements for nos and caed in both toker and chaith. Nos and Caed had to bow out for school reasons (the date is literally their finals week). Props to them, as well as backpack for helping us get chaith and toker up to snuff to still stay on top.

you played necro in this setup?

For a while I did, but it was mainly to play against comps that hard countered my condi engi with stuns and condis.

Also, to everyone not excited about this tourney and point to the previous ones, I feel pretty bad for you.

The horrendous balancing over the last year + prevented anyone from even caring about the game. Now we have 2 top teams with their rosters filled with stellar players. This is something that has never happened before, especially in a decent meta.

Pax was a joke to begin with after the disaster of dhuumfire. Get with the times ladies, we’re goin esports.

Your engi is finally overpower in this meta doesn’t mean the meta is decent.

The current meta isn’t decent but unhealthy by spamming passive damages without any efforts. (Conditions)

Still have a lot balancing to do in this game, so I said it’s not decent at all.

Condi spam meta.. yeah I dunno about that one, bud. And if it was, Oegg’s Rabid Engineer would probably be the first to get rekt.

EU Meta has next to no condition overload. On NA, it’s just a core of Engi, Ele, Thief, with the optional War/Necro/Ranger/Mesmer/Guard based on what the people play. Just for the fact that you can bring any profession, and not be behind (when using a suitable strategy) attests to the decent balance happening right now.

Engineer meta builds always have high condition application due to grenades, but damage output is more power oriented than condi. Eles do rely on burning, but don’t have a ton of condi spam. Don’t look at the Thief, either.

Basically, the conditions are more from what you choose to bring. If you choose a Rabid Engi, Terror Necro, or Entangle Ranger, alright I guess you have condition overload – but that’s the option, not the meta pick.

Either way, on EU or NA there aren’t more than one player per team running a Rabid/Carrion amulet, that’s for sure.

dylan.5409:

Ello,
Enjoy the game, been playing for ages.
However a few things (outside of team pvp more of a hotjoin soloq thing) have been bugging me of late
1) If you spend half you’re time invisible/ranged, then you shouldn’t be able to damage through dots
2) If you do most of you’re damage through AI, then you shouldn’t be able to build any tankier than celestial
Seem like obvious and required general constaints if you want to have an enjoyable/fair pvp environment.

Thanks

Quite.

Clearly you’re referencing PU Mesmer and Turret Engineer, respectively. While I agree it’s silly to allow builds that play like a 1v1 against a brick wall, they’re still highly counter-able with a change in tactics. And I hate to say it, but that makes them balanced. I don’t feel any of them warrant a swift nerfbatting.

Anet chose to create drawbacks to 1v1 gimmick builds in different places. However, in 1v1 combat where the enemy stays relatively immobile, commits to an area, and fights to the death, these builds have no significant drawbacks. They allow new players to be a combat threat, without the requirement of good mechanical knowledge. That’s the reason they were put in the game, so new players have a way to increase their battle strength and feel successful at doing something, rather than constant faceplanting.

Other new or even experienced players meet frustration when they encounter a Shadow Arts Thief, Prismatic Understanding Mesmer, Minion-Mancer Necro, Turret Engineer, and so on. This is due to the incorrect, direct approach that the player takes against these 1v1 brick wall builds.

Instead of a 1v1 to the death, a player can simply opt to:

1) Ignore the low-pressure duel build and engage other objectives, kill their friends instead.

2) Play patiently and defensively. The brick wall builds are incapable of bursting you down, instead relying on the enemy throwing themselves at their feet. Put distance between the A.I and yourself, if applicable, and then it’s then a stalemate at best.

3) Say ‘Nope’ out loud and completely walk away. These builds generally have third rate ability to stick on you and do damage while chasing.

Hotjoiners might not master these 3 things anytime soon, as they are literally the brand new players, but solo queue players will eventually learn to never die to ridiculous dueling builds as a roamer.

Falx.8427:

Haha, GW2 disconnections have been here for 2 years+ now, in every aspect of the game, Anet will never fix it. Case closed.

Haha.. people don’t know, I think the WTS qualifiers clocked somewhere in the realm of 60 total disconnects during games, throughout all the matches. Those numbers are not fact checked, as I wasn’t able to view the Rough Boyz vs. Memory of Vyndetta matches, which were from what I hear, hours of disconnects, completely on the player’s end.

bethekey.8314:

I definitely have had rifle skills fail to go off when everything seemed to be in order. However, to test it a little bit, I ran perpendicular to golems and was able to get overcharged shots off when they were at my 9 or 3 (within melee range). So, not to discredit the thread, but it might be a latency issue?

I think the magic ingredient is another moving player and just a dash of client-server disagreement.

Also, for some reason, after using Healing Turret and blowing people away with Accellerant Packed Turrets, when I’m quickly facing (they’re at my 11 or 12), standing still, and attempting to Overcharged Shot, this sequence of events cancels my overcharge shot 33-50% of the time in the heat of battle.

Good thing I don’t have high blood pressure, because missing that one moment you have to lock a thief down of the rolly-pollie type, and having to bait 8 more dodge rolls is very tiresome. Haha.

Firebird.8324:

Hello members of Abjured, the team that won and will be going to China, each and every one of you have noted that the DDOS attacks most likely perpetrated by Rough Boys was inconvenient and stressful but Anet and Grouch did everything correctly and you stand by this.

I would have the EXACT same attitude if my team came out victorious with only one member occasionally disconnecting. How would you feel if for instance in the very first match, just after 90 sec ostrich was dced out the entire game and it was a true 4v5 from the start? Then the next game there were no dc’s and you won, and the third game not one, but TWO of your members were DDOSed out just as you were securing victory.

I understand that I come from the losing perspective and you come from the winning perspective, but what I truly feel would be best for the NA community would be a redo of the WTS Qualifier. Myself and everyone who had team members effected by this issue would make sure to have a different IP address specifically for the redo and it would be a spectacular event on par with the wondrous gameplay that EU brought us.

Even when the VODs come out who wants to watch games with no skill involved, just who has the most members playing? Who wants to see 4v5, 3v5, 4v4 in basically EVERY SINGLE MATCH.

-Over Powered Necro [In Honor of Vendetta]

I’m sure everyone will have a fresh IP when any tournament that matters occurs again, these attacks have sure set an ugly precedent.

But I’m not sure what power anyone has here to force restart the WTS qualifiers. Due to pressure on the World Tournament Series Event #1 schedule, I’m not even sure if the Arenanet higher ups could possibly approve it.

Personally, I feel very robbed that the event couldn’t be streamed for being an un-watchable viewing experience due to hours of restarts/disconnects.

Personally, speaking only for myself, I would welcome any opportunity to play the same match-ups in a clean game, on stream.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

insanemaniac.2456:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you’re talking about walking away from a target, of course it will fizzle. You aren’t facing them.

thats exactly what this thread is about. too easy to fizzle.

So you’re upset that guns don’t shoot backwards?

Yeah, no, he misspoke there.

insanemaniac.2456:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you’re talking about walking away from a target, of course it will fizzle. You aren’t facing them.

thats exactly what this thread is about. too easy to fizzle.

It’s more about the frontal cone being too fickle at close range. You think you’re facing a guy, but if he’s like, 10 or 2 o’clock instead of 12 o’clock, the facing is incorrect.

In reality, anything between 9 and 3 o’clock should be proper frontal facing.

It’s almost like the Engineer’s field of vision is starting at the tip of the Engineer’s Rifle, as opposed to the middle of the Engineer hitbox.

You think you’re facing an enemy properly.. the enemy is in front of you, but your Rifle can’t see it, basically.

A bit of a more gracious field of vision for the facing requirements would be ideal.

style.6173:

Elxdark.9702:

Lupanic.6502:

Lupanic.6502:

who played for Abjured ? Noscoc and caed did not, right?

Does someone know ?

If I’m correct :

-Toker
-Oeggs
-Wakkey
-Phanta
-Chaith

Is this abjured or good fights? Can’t really tell. Not sure the point of qualifiers if people just rebuild their team.

Regardless, there needs to a replay of the NA event. Right now, the tournament is a disgrace. Not what ANET wanted for their first WTS event.

You seem to look down on the fact that members of Good Fights (currently not together) can cover for a team with members barred from competing by RL issues?

Cerbeius.7129:

Chaith.8256:

When the Engineer is standing still, the Overcharged Shot and Net Shot cause the Engineer to auto-face the target.

Only if Autotargeting is turned on.

Yeah dude, you’re not right about that. It’s nothing to do with the Autotargeting feature. it’s a facing problem. And the fact that Overcharged Shot auto-faces when standing still, thats a huge plus because if you aren’t standing still, it fizzles SO MUCH if the enemy is not directly in front of you.

When using the Engineer Rifle in close proximity to the target, some notable skills simply just go all wonky, and misfire.

When the Engineer is standing still, the Overcharged Shot and Net Shot cause the Engineer to auto-face the target.

However, often the Overcharge will simply go on a 4 second cooldown for no explainable reason when the Engineer is properly facing the target.

It’s seriously rage inducing, and an age old issue. Also a huge reason why notable Engineers like Teldo refused to play Rifle. Skill fizzling.

Would anyone else acknowledge this issue, in hopes for a fix to the Rifle’s targeting logic?

Edit: Something along the lines of removing the ability for Net Shot and Overcharged Shot unable to be cancelled (must fire when activated) would be a huge improvement. I’m not even sure how cancelling instant abilities came to be, anyhow.

Daishi.6027:

I think a simple 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 second cast time with an animation would make steal less about predicting but still come out fast enough to be effective.

If not I suggest not allowing it to be used without proper line of sight. (I think infiltrators strike should be the same but S/D is pretty balanced now I feel and such a change may hurt them to much)

Yeah the second option is much better. I am against putting a cast time on steal, unless the Thief’s traits could still benefit the Thief if hitting steal was the requirement to proc.

If Steal had a cast time, for that to work, it means un-linking some traits from Steal, and attaching them to other mechanics. Then a Trickery Thief wouldn’t be dirt if his Steals started getting reactively dodged by good players.

Windfury.3598:

Steal is blockable/dodgeable. What more do we need to understand in these mechanics? That one can dodge it and block it.

What more do you need to understand about these mechanics? Here’s what:

Steal ignores Aegis because it steals it on priority.

It doesn’t hit through dodge, correct. But you can’t reactively dodge steal. Or predict and dodge it. This is because Steal is so precise that it can be completely reliably poked in the very millisecond your evade frames drop. A good thief’s success rate on steal is easily 95%, not including bugs/weird stuff. That’s why saying ‘oh it’s dodgeable/blockable, so that’s all you need to know (implied get to dodging and blocking it, noobs)’ is very misleading.

If steal is to be dodged or blocked, a Thief has to foolishly lose patience, and waste it. And this is all fine. Thief traits are balanced around Steal hitting 100% of the time, and I think it’s more or less working, minus perhaps being usable when you’re not in LOS of your target.

Geiir.7603:

If someone predicts it and evade at the right moment (or just a random evade) we just wasted one of our strongest skills on nothing.

No, missing steal outside of a terrain bug or other type of bug is a l2P issue, and completely the fault of the thief.

In the numerous list of things in which steal does, there’s 7 freakin’ traits that have absolutely zero other effects on the Thief’s abilities unless steal is landing. Serpent’s Touch, Mug, Improvisation, Kleptomaniac, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft, and Sleight of Hand.

In a build you’re describing that invests that heavily in steal, if even one steal gets predicted and countered, the Thief might as well be naked and traitless. For Thief to work in its current iteration, Steal can’t be able to be reactively ez-dodged. For new Thieves, it’s already a learning curve to ensure that 100% of steals hit – exercising patience, etc.

The only possible rework I can think of, would be to unlink some of these traits from Steal, so they are more stand alone, and don’t scale out of control when multiple steal traits are taken.

But then you have to ask if any changes to steal are really justified? In the big picture, Thief has 3 effective build options in competitive tPvP, isn’t overwhelming everything in 1v1s, and definitely does not work when the profession is stacked.

Edit: I am down with increasing the limitations of Steal though, but I don’t agree with introducing counterplay by allowing good players to rofl-dodge it. Respecting the rules of LOS would be fair.

In fact, there’s a super widely held opinion that a certain baseline of damage from procs are bad for the game – Air, Fire, Incendiary Powder, Combustive Shot. I contend that they do a good job of keeping high evasion based builds in check, who easily have all the tools to react and dodge to every single other ability.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Chaith.8256:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Yeah if that was the case they wouldn’t have pick you up. Think yesterday you were in the 70’s. While the rest ofyour team was in the top 20’s.Unless he’s right and your the sub for backpack, as the dps shoutcaster said Backpack best player NA.

On the off chance you’re actually being serious, take into account that Oeggs throws his Team Queue rating into the fire on the daily by yolo queuing. If he’s commonly top 100 I’d say that’s good. Lmao.

my attachment should of told you if i was serious xD. I know he does, me and some of my friends have seen him a few times in tpvp yoloing it up. And my comment was also a jab at the whole dps shoutcaster being on backpack’s nutz during their whole stream.

I wasn’t aware the dude with the ‘I just pooped lolz’ face meant sarcasm.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Yeah if that was the case they wouldn’t have pick you up. Think yesterday you were in the 70’s. While the rest ofyour team was in the top 20’s.Unless he’s right and your the sub for backpack, as the dps shoutcaster said Backpack best player NA.

On the off chance you’re actually being serious, take into account that Oeggs throws his Team Queue rating into the fire on the daily by yolo queuing. If he’s commonly top 100 I’d say that’s good. Lmao.

Arachnid.4062:

Celestial without might stacking isn’t overpowered, see necromancer, ranger, guardian for reference.

You’re misguided.

Celestial without simultaneous, viable power damage AND condition application, AND multiple healing sources (to scale quickly from) isn’t overpowered.

Nade Engi and D/D Ele are the only ones who really have all those 3. That’s why Cele Necro, Ranger, and Guardian are incomplete. Don’t point the finger at might. Or Celestial, or a combination of the 2.

Cele Engi, for example, slaps on a battle sigil as the only source of might, and is hella good. Any profession can do that, and stack the same might. Your argument falls flat on it’s face.

The separate argument that Ele might have too much access to might is a viable one, though.

Similarly to how the argument that Engi might have too much access to condi application.

Nos.9803:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Leaderboards are a joke. A number doesn’t mean anything, it’s how you play.

Says a number doesn’t mean anything. Boasts about the amount of tourney games he played in his forum signature

Yeah, Oeggs, don’t diss the leaderboards.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Chaith.8256:

Josh Davis.6015:

Zaxares.5419:

So, now that the Skyhammer changes have gone in (hammer now dodgable, floor break time increased, can’t break floors while in stealth), what are people’s opinions? Is it bearable, or even fun, now?

I’m interested in seeing these questions answered by those who have posted in this thread with a generally negative opinion, but have gone back and retried the map since yesterday’s changes.

In your opinion, are yesterday’s changes to Skyhammer generally positive? Are there other small tweaks like this (aside from removal of solo queue) that you feel would make the map a better experience for players – changes that wouldn’t drastically change the gameplay dynamic and aesthetic of the map?

Very positive changes

I would even go one step further and put up some guards by the side-points that prevent a player from being obliterated by one instant point-blank shot, Fear Me, or Ngihtmare Rune proc. On the narrow path areas only.

Nothing like hitting a necro, proccing Nightmare Runes and just committing suicide. The glass panel dunk combo is definitely harder now, but still totally possible without too much effort.

My feedback on the changes were that they were all steps in the right direction, but for Skyhammer to become a competitive map from being, well, Skyhammer, there is a bigger gap than anticipated, I feel.

A player should use their camera and positioning to see if the point is occupied, if so.. pop stability, block, interrupt etc and engage.
If you fight on point the one thing to do is to get your opponent between you and the drop. It’s kinda the whole point of the map.

I respect your feedback, but my feedback is very firm in that the less instant death ambush potential in a competitive map, the better.

Josh Davis.6015:

Zaxares.5419:

So, now that the Skyhammer changes have gone in (hammer now dodgable, floor break time increased, can’t break floors while in stealth), what are people’s opinions? Is it bearable, or even fun, now?

I’m interested in seeing these questions answered by those who have posted in this thread with a generally negative opinion, but have gone back and retried the map since yesterday’s changes.

In your opinion, are yesterday’s changes to Skyhammer generally positive? Are there other small tweaks like this (aside from removal of solo queue) that you feel would make the map a better experience for players – changes that wouldn’t drastically change the gameplay dynamic and aesthetic of the map?

Very positive changes

I would even go one step further and put up some guards by the side-points that prevent a player from being obliterated by one instant point-blank shot, Fear Me, or Ngihtmare Rune proc. On the narrow path areas only.

Nothing like hitting a necro, proccing Nightmare Runes and just committing suicide. The glass panel dunk combo is definitely harder now, but still totally possible without too much effort.

My feedback on the changes were that they were all steps in the right direction, but for Skyhammer to become a competitive map from being, well, Skyhammer, there is a bigger gap than anticipated, I feel.

MonMalthias.4763:

At some point, I do have to wonder whether it might have been better to make Grenades not have impact detonation, and Bombs some kind of Proximity mechanic that made them detonate when an opponent ran over them.

On the other hand, Bombs are really poorly cued compared to Grenades. GK’s skills are visually distinct down to the autoattack; whereas Bombs are a lot more ambiguous. Only the AOE radii truly distinguishes say, Glue bomb from the rest. Concussion bomb is even smaller than the autoattack bomb. That’s just silly. Dropping bombs at the feet as well; although useful for an anti-melee kiting kit that BK seems to be designed for; is also pretty toxic in that you have no idea what Bomb is dropped; especially against Asura or Charr with long coats.

This is why I do think that it might be a good idea to make Bombs be tossed out in front of the Engineer by say, 180 or so units. That way you can set up proximity detonations. The human eye is also drawn to movement; so having a moving object, colour coded for visual cueing, would be a lot better counterplay-wise compared to the current BK attacks.

In this way you can have your cake and eat it too.

• You can now aim bombs to go off immediately by aiming your character at the enemy. Bombs are thrown at enemy’s feet, go off after ~3/4 total cast time + travel time. Like any other strong melee attack, really.
  • If you miss, you suffer the full 1 second delay before detonation. Fair’s fair, given the sheer radius and condition spreading power of Bombs.

That said, Power Bombs or even hybrid Bombs is going to be really hard to pull off. Total coefficients for Power of BK are as given (RIP Steady weapon testing):

• BK 1: 1.25
• BK 2: 0.2 but ticks 4 times (0.8 total over 3 total seconds)
• BK 3: 0.4 (due to 5 confusion stacks)
• BK 4: 0
• BK 5: 0
• Toolbelt BK: 1.7
  • This is a total of 4.15 assuming best case scenario.
  • Grenade Kit traited with Grenadier in comparison is total 7.14 (0.33×3 + 0.55×3 + 0×3 (Flash Grenade) + 0.5×3 + 0×3 (Poison Grenade deals no direct damage) + 0.375×8) although realistically one should only expect around 2/3rds of that due to scatter.

Clearly Grenade Kit is the better hybrid kit. Bomb Kit’s coefficients are going to have to be shifted away from BK1; into Fire bomb and Concussion bomb. Perhaps even Glue Bomb.

I would gladly take a Path of Exile-style Concentrated Effect type trait that boosts the power coefficients of BK extensively whilst reducing its AOE radius, Burning and Confusion output. Maybe it could replace Autodefense Bomb Dispenser. But BK has a lot of changes – perhaps too much to contemplate – before it can even begin to move away from its point-dominating, point-spamming role.

You produce a lot of really good ideas and much more interesting mechanics than the status quo.. I just fear it’s all for nothing.

I would love if there were ways to specialize/invest Bombs into main DPS hybrid or power kit.

I would also love it if there were ways to convert Firearms into main DPS sources, too.

I’m tired of everything playing second fiddle to grenades, in PvP. Unfortunately, no other setup has enough pressure to follow through, no matter how offensively you build.

masskillerxploit.2165:

The best thing an engi can do in a 4v4 is to pop nades into the fight, wait for your target to get locked down by your teammates, then run in with the condi burst. You can’t get locked down by a necro if you locked down the necro first

Btw I’m writing all this on a phone. So excuse the mistakes.

Lol, you think Necros commonly 4v4, and that Engineers can fight effectively from 1500 range.

masskillerxploit.2165:

The funny thing is … All the engineers in here that are defending engi all have the same excuse to why engi is not OP. IF ANYTHING GETS FOCUSED BY 2 OR MORE PLAYERS IT’S GONNA DIE. Why don’t you guys get this (chaith…) The only thing that truly stops a focus fire is invuln….wait…. (elixir s) but but but wat if the engi is caught out of position THEY GOT NO TELEPORTS TO RESET THEIR POSITION QQ… um stealth just does the same amount reset as teleports. Also the meta of engi involves nades which can be thrown at 1500 range! If your out of position in the first place it’s cause if player skill issue.

Your signature made me lol: ‘Ferox, Experienced sPvP Player!’. That’s kind of suspicious, like: Walter White’s Car Wash, definitely not a front for a meth money laundering operation!’

When an Engi is being ganked properly by a Thief/Necro or Engi/Necro, there is nothing he can do to survive. It’s probably the fastest 2v1 in the game, is what my point is. There is enough interrupts to chain fear/daze/knockdown the Engineer to death in record time, and Elixir S is incapable of stopping the gank, merely delay it by 3 seconds.

Ask Caed, Backpack, or Nos. Their business in tPvP is pretty much hunting opportunities to overwhelm Engies in 5 seconds, and snowball the map. That strategy really just isn’t viable against professions who, when they use all their defensive cooldowns, you can be certain they arent’ going to still splat in under 10 seconds.

My point is not that ‘engi dies when outnumbered (like everything else, omg!).’ It’s that none of the Engineer’s tools are highly successful get out of jail cards. When focus fired in the above mentioned scenario, there’s usually not even the chance to get the Toss Elixir S stealth off – it’s .5s cast is prevented by the chain interrupts, and magnet counters the gear shield handily.

Penguin.5197:

I don’t see slick shoes becoming any more viable now. Its still on a long cooldown with a niche effect

Wolfar.6508:

Seeing some cooldown reduction on the Slick Shoes is good but it’s not enough, it’s still not worth using.

Arantheal.7396:

I completely agree on the slickshoes

insanemaniac.2456:

slick shoes wont be enough. there just isnt anything build defining about gadgets in comparison to kits, and now turrets.

Nirvana.8659:

About Slick shoes,I don’t see my self use it,and I never used it outside of a test session.
The skill as it is even after the next change, needs even a shorter CD or better, some other added effect to justify his presence in the utility slots and tool belt slot.

robertul.3679:

Slick shoes are just as useless as venoms no matter how much anet tries to push them. There is simply no place for them on your limited utility bar.

You guys really underestimate the Slicky Shoes. I’m being totally, 100% serious. When chained properly, it’s a 4-6s knockdown, that is uncounterable by a lot of stunbreaks.

Stunbreaks need to have a displacement, stability, or invulnerability to break slick shoes.

Slicky Shoes will definitely be a variant of Cele Rifle that gets some play from me. Swapping Slicky Shoes in for Elixir S definitely makes you a significantly more lethal contender, and the Super Speed disengage is good.

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/3125426

^This is a super old Clip, but .. you can’t deny the appeal of shreking a pre-nerf hambow Warrior in 4 seconds.

Uh.. I think Spirit Watch, competitively, is much closer than Skyhammer. At least people still run builds for conquest, and not builds for ping pong.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ostricheggs.3742:

CC uptime, not distance sir. Overcharged shot is a 3s CC on its target on a 15s CD. That’s one second of stun for every five seconds. The only thing that rivals that is earthshaker, which requires adrenaline ;\

Your entire argument is destroyed by the fear condition.

Eh, yeah, you’re kind of right, if you factor in how stackable fear is, especially.

But a direct example of a skill that Oeggs forgot about, that has equal CC uptime, better damage, better reliability – always clutch, no travel time:

Doom is an instant 2.5s fear, with a 17s Cooldown.

Ostricheggs.3742:

The damage on cele isn’t “reliable” in that it’s dependent on battle for might stacks. It also does straight up LESS damage in favor of insane amounts of sustain to get the most out of its CC uptime.

Gonna have to disagree on the first part, budski. The battle sigil is not a dependency any more for Cele as it is for Rabid. It’s just the best suited sigil due to the Engineer’s native hybrid damage type. Battle sigil could be deleted, I could run power runes and Air Sigil, and Cele Engi wouldn’t be that much different, other than being shaved down in pressure slightly.

Battle sigil is just the gravy.

While your assessment of Celestial Rifle builds doing less damage than Rabid is correct, Cele is more rounded while Rabid is more offensive, I’m not sure where you’re going by bringing that up.

Yeah I think the OP is just confused because it’s really common that the grenades explode on you before the projectile encounters the reflection, as Deimos said.

If the reflection effect is placed between you and the Engineer, no nades will get through. IE: Wall of Reflection, Feedback, Phantasmal Warden, etc.

They do get reflected..? How many marijuanas did you take, I think you’re ODing

Ostricheggs.3742:

Honest to god, rifle 4 NEEDS to be changed. Let’s get real folk’s, that’s the main problem with all the engi QQ going on.

It’s too frustrating as a player to be chain CC’d so frequently. Take it as you will but I personally think a lot of the frustration regarding engis recently has been the growing popularity of rifle as a weaponset and particularly the relatively low-skill builds of cele rifle and turrets.

Rifle 4 has the highest CC uptime on a target in the game.

If I may be so bold to offer a suggestion, I would recommend turning rifle 4 into a 2s daze and remove the self CC and well as keep the condi clear. I think this will still allow the fluid combat that gw2 players are used to. It would also prevent both players from being CC’d to incredible degrees which is really fustrating to watch.

Great way to send the Rifle to the scrap heap, and have another 2 years of P/S & P/P at competitive levels.

No overcharge shot KD: No reliable way to land both hits of throw wrench. Net Shot accuracy would go way down, because currently when people are laying the hell still, it is actually not likely to see it fly into the horizon, obstructed.

You say Rifle is lower skill than P/P?

I call bull on that. From someone who has played both over the years, and tends to favor Rifle, (opposite of you) P/P rabid is just 5-4-3-2. And has more emphasis on Incendiary Powder

You’ve said it yourself many times. You hate Cele Rifle compared to Rabid P/P because the damage is so unreliable. Do you know why that is? Because your Incendiary Powder does 2188 damage on Rifle builds. Compared to P/P builds, which does 4408, it’s literally relying on Incendiary Powder half as much.

Rabid basically goes in, empties a clip of pistol skills into the target, and then empties a clip of grenades into the target. When you’re just relentlessly chaining skills together, P/P builds are doing crazy Incendiary Powder damage.

With Cele Rifle, it’s easier to aim on knocked down enemies, which I think is your main angle, because you feel aiming grenades on moving enemies makes P/P builds skillful. Rifle builds do that too. Meanwhile, stunbreaking the overcharge shot ruins the whole combo. Can you predict and avoid the P/P build’s pressure in the same way, by combo breaking? Hell no. The build’s all in on Incendiary Powder and you just get melted.

P/P skills, especially the 2 and 3 are fire and forget. Rifle skills are much more fickle, and take more positioning and baiting for it to be land-able. If you throw Jump Shot, or Net Shot at someone who’s not already set up, you’re gonna have a bad day.

I think Rifle is not the reason for Engi QQ. Engineers using Rifle in SoloQ miss every skill and get dunked. I think Incendiary Powder and Turret pressure are more accurate.

Well, Turrets are not going to be drastically changed at this point.

But in development hindsight, I would have made painted Turrets (and all other A.I) with the same brush that phantasms were. Turrets still immobile, but targetable by conditions and were an extension of the Engineer’s stats.

2/0/6/6/0 Turret bunker would have a bag of wet noodles for damage if Turrets relied on the Engineer’s bunker built stats for damage.

Static A.I damage is a disease.. it’s either worthless or too strong when stacked on an otherwise defensive build. Hopefully this is a lesson to any future game developers. Also, dependency on Auto Attacks from A.I is even worse. Please fold a larger portion of the pressure into the overcharge abilities that require timing and setup. *Shrugs

Dustin.2793:

Mike.4830:

azerte.4365:

Mike.4830:

I’d love to personally organize and shout cast such an event…. However I feel it should be two best of threes one on NA one on EU … To eliminate excuses…

I will contact both of these teams and try and set something up…

Don’t do it Backpack, leave the hype train for WTS! :p (If both teams are in it)

Noscoc isnt playing in WTS, and no one can play necro at his lvl on NA, so the Abjured at WTS wont be the most optimal roster, if it was, both Nos and I would be on it

I think caed and I could play double thief and still not lose a game.

Double thief, so bad. Lol man that would be an insane feat.

Arachnid.4062:

Grenades and Bombs both have counterplay and are well designed. If you have a problem with them, go make your own thread about it. That’s not the purpose of this one.

Your thread is a vague rant. Open discussion, imo

Reevz.2617:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

make grenades have a “danger close” zone where if thrown too closely to the engineer they self-inflict conditions or damage to both the engineer and their turrets. or just make it so they can’t throw nades within their immediate area and then make nades travel 33% faster. otherwise, nades get to act as both nades and bombs while being even better at doing what bombkit is supposed to do thanks to their instant fuse at short range and they give 3 chances at minimum to proc IP

Hahaha. Simply put, friendly fire is just a path that leads nowhere positive for the game.

Also, instant fuse at short range for bombs? Bombs are ridiculously slow and avoidable – I’d go so far as to say they’re only usable on immobilized, point-committed, and downed bodies. Counter-pressuring a mobile Thief or Mesmer, for example, with bombs, I would go so far as to say that this is extremely rare. Unless they deem it ‘worth’ and eat some ticks of a fire bomb for a good reason, of course.

Yes, grenades are too good, compared to bombs. It has that snap 1v1 counter-pressure, where the Engineer really has little access to that, otherwise. Thats why in PvP, Grenade-less builds don’t really happen.

I’d love to use Bombs instead of Grenades, for a change. Maybe change Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait to remove the fuse time of bombs (not the casting time, and not Big Ol’ Bomb). That would mean it would be unable to be used with grenades in the same build.

I’d totally run this build, then!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrtbxkLseNCbBNyx8GRuxq85GEglC-TJRHwAFeAAAuAAk2f4YZAA

removing the fuse on bombs would make it quite hard to reliably dodge them tbh not a good idea— we dont need more things like necro marks :P even if it would be melee

Well, it would be exactly how Grenades are right now. .5s Cast emote in melee, but yeah, I see what you’re saying. If instant Melee bombs are toxic, instant Melee grenades are too, then, by logic.

Arken.3725:

Edit: Just to reiterate again, Runes/sigils are meant to augment your build, not define it. Might stacking runes do exactly that.

This is a thread about Engineers. Engineers that play rifle slap on Battle Sigil and Hoelbrak runes to augment their power with 9-10 stacks of might, once it gets going.

Standard Cele Rifle Engi can’t stack a lick of might on its own. The 9 might stacks are marginally better than going like.. Air Sigil and Ogre Runes or something. That’s simply because Engineer does hybrid damage. A thief/mes would benefit more from the Air/Ogre combo. The 9 might stacks get stripped occasionally, by a steal or shatter, and it’s not like the build gets shut down by that.

I don’t think a smart argument can be made as to say that Nade/Elixir S/Toolkit Cele Rifle builds are defined by might stacking just because they can get 9 stacks up, on themselves only, after a 30s ramp up time.

Arken.3725:

Not so much of a forbidden thing in 1v1 as it’s a crutch to the player who got hit with cc. You’re essentially being rewarded by getting hit, contrary to the games design.

No engineer meta builds are using prot injection anymore. Or protective shield. They’re only worth it vs. Mace or hammer warriors, really, which aren’t hugely concerning. Vigor is decidedly universally better.

sinject.4607:

make grenades have a “danger close” zone where if thrown too closely to the engineer they self-inflict conditions or damage to both the engineer and their turrets. or just make it so they can’t throw nades within their immediate area and then make nades travel 33% faster. otherwise, nades get to act as both nades and bombs while being even better at doing what bombkit is supposed to do thanks to their instant fuse at short range and they give 3 chances at minimum to proc IP

Hahaha. Simply put, friendly fire is just a path that leads nowhere positive for the game.

Also, instant fuse at short range for bombs? Bombs are ridiculously slow and avoidable – I’d go so far as to say they’re only usable on immobilized, point-committed, and downed bodies. Counter-pressuring a mobile Thief or Mesmer, for example, with bombs, I would go so far as to say that this is extremely rare. Unless they deem it ‘worth’ and eat some ticks of a fire bomb for a good reason, of course.

Yes, grenades are too good, compared to bombs. It has that snap 1v1 counter-pressure, where the Engineer really has little access to that, otherwise. Thats why in PvP, Grenade-less builds don’t really happen.

I’d love to use Bombs instead of Grenades, for a change. Maybe change Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait to remove the fuse time of bombs (not the casting time, and not Big Ol’ Bomb). That would mean it would be unable to be used with grenades in the same build.

I’d totally run this build, then!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrtbxkLseNCbBNyx8GRuxq85GEglC-TJRHwAFeAAAuAAk2f4YZAA

To succeed at Necromancer in sPvP, put an emphasis on crashing 1v1s, and smaller fights, as opposed to 5v5 brawls, due to how rush-able the Necro can be. The necromancer has some of the strongest ganking power of any profession, due to the CC lock and Corrupt Boon.

Also, you have to learn to to plan ahead and maximize Flesh Wurm and Spectral Walk usage. A Necro that doesn’t plan on being slippery by displacing himself, plans instead to be rushed and CC locked to death. This includes kiting well and general defensive play, so the pre-cast teleports can’t be depended on by themselves.

Edit: The only Necro main who is really active on high tier NA atm is Noscoc.

http://www.twitch.tv/noscoc/profile/past_broadcasts

4% Crit chance makes your Incendiary Powder usage floppy at best. Rabid, or Intelligence sigil, your call.

Also, there’s no way Melandru Runes are better than Hoelbrak. You have a battle sigil to combo with it.

This thread reeks of TOS violation. And a scam. Reeks of scam.

Super not easy fix. It’s going to force Anet to add an entire matching filter (who knows how long that will take), and often times players in soloq are stacking classes on purpose, for the fun of it.

If players cared more, they would actually make good picks. I mean that as in, if players were rewarded for being good at the game.

It’s based on a player problem, not a matchmaking problem.

Everyone has the ability to switch characters. It’s just a matter of if they care, or want to troll.

sinject.4607:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

“engineer is balanced because two or more (coordinated) players can kill it when they team up against it by itself”

in what world

Most misleading fake quote of the year

ok then give me an argument that engie isn’t overpowered that doesn’t revolve almost entirely around engineer dying to two or more players at once (which is all you’ve done so far) or that condition necro counters engineers despite the fact that condition necro is then countered by multiple common meta builds.

you’d be the first engineer to actually manage it if you do

Okay, my face is starting to turn blue now, but it’s really simple, bud. It’s because the power level of Engineer, or ‘worth’ to a team as a balanced teamfight bruiser build, arguably it’s strongest role, is between the Ele and Warrior.

See: The EU usage of Engineers, compared to Thief/Mes synergy, double Eles and a 5th pick as a Warrior or Guardian.

Yes, I assume actual good players are behind the professions when their worth is evaluated. Yes, I acknowledge that Engineers start very strong when your enemies are not experienced. Yes, I acknowledge that Engineers have toxic mechanics like A.I, and regular burning application.

But overpowered relative to other professions? Firmly disagree.

Arachnid.4062:

On a side note. Here I am, still waiting for SOMEONE TO TELL ME HOW ANY OF THE THINGS IN MY OP ARE WELL DESIGNED OR HAVE DECENT COUNTERPLAY

Well if you want the TL:DR on counterplay, Turrets die, Burning gets cleansed, and Elixir Gun Engineers get a rectum full of fists from the enemy team rush with no Invuln/Stealth.

Edit: But no reason to try and convince anybody that they’re well designed. A.I. especially, can rot.

sinject.4607:

“engineer is balanced because two or more (coordinated) players can kill it when they team up against it by itself”

in what world

Most misleading fake quote of the year

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Yeah we’ve scrimmed Blacklisted often in the past, too. I definitely remember Steb and Zeromis both diving me, on our ledge in Graveyard (Foefire) but they didn’t do it at the same time, so they both failed, and I think Steb went into the downed state.

We haven’t scrimmed you guys in over a year, and we didn’t have zero then, we had mila and spoons the one time I recall our teams fighting in a random team queue. And Rar basically ran a muck on us. lol

You’re right, it was teamqueue. That was only a couple weeks ago, though.

Reevz.2617:

Steb.2571:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Who cares if engi is easy to focus down for the absolute top tier? It’s kittening off everyone who isn’t an absolute god at this game.

It’s not, My team has 4 zerkers, we’re a top team, and we refuse to focus an engi because it will just shield, into s, into dodgerolls, into stealth, back into shield. By this point either we have downs and are still trying to focus it with 0 effect, or dead.

you guys focus me alot in our scrims, that’s a lie :P. i only live because i use S to get to LoS but give you guys the point

Yeah we’ve scrimmed Blacklisted often in the past, too. I definitely remember Steb and Zeromis both diving me, on our ledge in Graveyard (Foefire) but they didn’t do it at the same time, so they both failed, and I think Steb went into the downed state.