Guild Wars 2

It’s berserker, IP is whatever!

You have 2700 power or something when your stacks get going, it’s best not to worry about the 200 power at that point.

But yeah you could make the build 4/4/0/6/0 if you prefer. It’s whatever you like for a hotjoin build such as this

sinject.4607:

celestial needs two stats removed. celestial d/d elementalist and celestial rifle engineer are two of the most overpowered specs in the game.

Hard to say if nerfing the stats on Cele is the right way. Cele is miles ahead of every other amulet for D/D Ele, but there’s no Cele Engies on EU (they’re dismissed as ineffective), and there is always Rabid Engi that naturally has great synergy with Incendiary Powder and Balthazar, much more so than Celestial.

Thiefz.3695:

I didn’t post my build because it’s really not that great. I basically run an HGH build, berserkers, with strength runes. I run Elixir S, Elixir B, Elixir H, and bombs. Then for elite, I run Elixir X. With 20% reduction for Elixirs, I get my elite back in a little over 60 seconds which is better than the supply crate cool down. The point of my build is burst. I run air/fire since I have high crit uptime.

The nice thing about HGH is that it’s simple, you just need to know how to rotate your elixirs and then how to cap the node. Elixir X with Brute allows for all the stability you need however you don’t get any condi clear. however with the burst aspect, you can stealth in and get a squishy thief or elemental down very quickly. The downside is the lack of stun breaks but that might just be a skill issue. I was trying to tweak things a bit but going back to p/s might help with that.

Nice, I have a build that’s very similar to yours that I use for Hotjoins occasionally. No judging. It’s REALLY fun.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlcTp6q1XxkLkfNSehMykTBZgFiu1taA-TJBFwAOeAAl2foaZAAXAAA

Here’s what you do: Get might fully stacked up. Roam to a side point: toss Elixir S for stealth. Toss Elixir B for stability WHILE you’re in stealth. Magnet pull somebody, Prybar them (for 7k, 2k Air Sigil) Overcharge shot them (for 3.5k). You had stability so you don’t get knocked back. Throw the Wrench (6k), Blunderbus (5k). Then if it’s not dead, use Jump Shot or try to roll Rampage.

RIP anything that you hit with this combo that doesn’t have a stunbreak.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Chaith, this is a question to you and a bit offtopic.

In your opinion, what is the +’s and -’s of bringing pistol shield nade bomb over pistol pistol nade toolkit?

P/P toolkit builds are much better at initiating, due to skills like magnet, escaping multiple enemies while blocking all attacks, fighting moving enemies due to the mobile attacks of Pistol Offhand, and Tool Kit, getting confusion and burning on the run, instead of depending on enemies to get sit around for the bomb kit’s burning and confusion.

P/S bomb builds are much better at wrecking point-committed things, and manipulate downed bodies slightly better. Having a shield has obvious benefits, including projectile reflecting and improved interrupting power. Having combo fields and 2 more blast finishers, albeit on long cooldowns, adds increased utility such as might or another clutch stealth for allies.

Running Elixir S, and E-Gun seems weird to me, I feel your damage would suffer too much. Running double stunbreak doesn’t sound trash, because at least it’s another kit, but it sounds not as strong.

I assume the third utility you’re not mentioning is Grenade Kit?

If you want have better stunbreaks for 1v1, I suggest you use Elixir Gun or Slick Shoes over Elixir S. If you are more worried about dying to 3+ players training you, Elixir S is the best that it will get.

ghaleon.2861:

LOL, Everything I said is the truth. Your only hard counter is Necro, Ele vs Engi is pretty even. But there’s no point in continuing this argument with you, saying that engis go even with mesmers it’s a nice joke lol. If you lose to a mes on a point you just got out played hard. Mesmer has no condi removal, just auto attacks from pistol procs IP and mes dies. if you lose to a condi ranger you’re just bad. I know engi is op, and everybody elses knows it too. You can argue all you want, but the truth is engis is OP and has been OP for ages.

Don’t be bad.. you main Mesmer and yet you’re talking about dying to Engineers on point like that ever happens? Here are some tips so you can not die to Engineers on point:

• Don’t fight an Engineer on point. Give up the neutral or even the cap if the Engineer will die, because him being point-committed will further increase your chances of winning.

• When the Engineer is walking at you hitting 1 to apply burning, dodge backwards and let a clone eat IP.

To die to a Cele Rifle build on Mesmer, I think that’s funny. A Mesmer getting smacked by grenades and 200 range rifle skills repeatedly on point, you just made my day. I think Rabid builds have a better shot if the mesmer can’t body block with clones occasionally. If the Mesmer is any good, at a higher skill tier it will be a struggle, and anyone’s game.

And no, an Engineer dying to a condi ranger does not make the Engineer bad. The Engineer only has condition removal once every 15 seconds at best, so it’s not hard at all to stick an Entangle every 48s. Meanwhile the Ranger has many tools to stop rifle burst, such as dodges while immobilized, immob breaking stunbreak, and Shared Anguish for the rifle KD. 30+ condition removal per minute with Survival Skills & Empathic Bond versus 6-8 condition removal per minute.. the Engineer is not favored to win, mostly due to the new Entangle. But the Engineer can eventually win by dipping off point a lot and healing, and using crate. Again, the Ranger should force the Engineer off the point way more than the inverse, so it’s in the Ranger’s favor but only a soft counter.

Engineer may have the advantage against Hambow, but Condition Warrior has the advantage to Engineer. Condition Guard sucks and still anyone’s game vs. a Cele Engineer, due to cleansing burn once and then burning for 15 more seconds.

Magic Toker’s 2/0/0/6/6 Thief, played at a super high level, with LOS spots like Henge or Mine, vs. Cele Rifle build is anyone’s game. Some days Toker goes 1 and 1 with me. Usually Engi has the advantage.

There are just a ton of things that are not a steamroll for Engineers. You’re biased as hell.

ghaleon.2861:

Ele vs Necro is even, just like Ele vs Engi is pretty even too. But engi hard counters everbody else after that. We have 8 profession, you only get hard counter by 1(necro). So you see, it is a good thing to point out regarding how OP the engi is. He’s able to hard counter everybody else except Necro. Perma swiftness, Supply crate, Gear shield 16 sec cd traited + exilir S, 5 sec stealth, IP, balthazar runes, strength runes, celestial Amulet. Best 2v1 class in the game, gets away with so much crap. So yes overpowered by a lot.

You are not good at comparing things.

Ele and Necro don’t even have 1 hard counter. They are able to go even or are favored in pretty much every matchup I can think of. Maybe not Necro vs. Meditation Guard?

Engineer simply has no chance vs. Necro and in my opinion, at the highest level, at a disadvantage against Ele and Entangle Rangers. Engineers go even with Mesmers, and are advantaged against Guardians, Thieves, Warriors.

Is it not just common sense that your argument is bad, in which Engineer ‘only’ has one hard counter and supposedly wrecks everything else, when it’s more accurate to say Engineer has the third best overall matchups out of 8 professions, at best?

Either way, 1v1 matchups are only one dimension of a profession’s ability, but I think it’s pretty clear that Engineer is not out of line in this one dimension, given it’s variously advantaged against 3 professions meta builds, variously disadvantaged against 3 professions meta builds, and anyone’s game, with the last two. Honestly, I think based on a person’s discretion, it could be said that it’s anyone’s game for Engineer against more professions.

Elixir Gun 1 Spam is way too good for how easy it is. Haha.

If I made a build built around spamming 1, here it would be:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpWrtbxkLseRCbBNqxAqOI6NWlO+xIGAA-TJRHwAV2fIwDAIZZAAnAAA

As you can see, Vee Wee, Flamethrower’s toolbelt ability is just…. so dumb to increase 1spam pressure from 1200 range.

Applying burn, weakness, bleed, and poison, all with either high uptime (or perma) from 1200 range is just pants-on-head silly. Then a cripple when they reach half. The 5th condition, from Elixir Gun 1 spam. lol.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Carighan.6758:

Oooh, 1v1.

What? Nobody mentioned 1v1’ing at all.

See, your change would make an already weak ability in group usage even weaker.

Don’t disrespect the usefulness of shadow refuge. It’s a VERY good skill, and VERY good in team play. It’s certainly not a deathtrap if used correctly.

Carighan.6758:

Another interesting counter is simply leaving.

If you leave, the thief decaps. In other words, it’s not an option. This is what a thief does to fork the enemy. They put them in a position to pick two choices which they don’t want to take. Ether they stay and sit afk for 15-20 seconds while the thief +1 a point, or they leave and the thief gets the decap. This tactic should be used because it’s how the thief plays and provides a more diverse game to play, so no need to nerf it to the ground like a 90 second cooldown or 1 and 3/4ths cast time or something. 3/4’s seconds is just enough time for someone to counter it directly if they’re good at saving their hard cc.

Ever play mind games with the Thief?

Here’s what you do.. as soon as he casts refuge, before it even disperses, start running away from the point as fast as possible. 8-9 seconds later, blast back towards the point at full speed.

Often times I see the Thief exit stealth right next to the point where he was waiting for it to wear off, and then he has to rotate back to mid while I land some poke damage. Either way just by giving him the impression he could get an ez-decap, you can slow his rotation to mid significantly.

ghaleon.2861:

Every profession has hard counters. Thief hard counters Mes, Engi hard counters thief, war, and pretty much everybody except Necro. Engi vs Ele is pretty even IMHO.

Ele’s hard counter is..?

Necro’s hard counter is..?

There are no very-unfavorable matchups for the meta builds on these 2 professions.

But okay. Engineer has a hard counter and that’s cool and the way it should be. But that’s hardly a good thing to point out when you’re trying to say that Engineers are overpowered compared to other professions.

Arken.3725:

Just going to chime in. Being weak to condi-burst isn’t a good argument to a professions weakness. Also going back to my point in another thread where condi cleanse can be achieved except most engineer’s choose not to run it. I’ve been saying it constantly and this is why we have Ele’s where they are today, you should never have the best of both worlds.

Ah.. actually, I will say that an Engineer does not have condition removal options that a Necromancer would be affected by, Arken.

Elixir C doesn’t break stun (terror chains). You can’t cleanse yourself with Cleaning Elixir 409 because that requires that you cast Elixirs. You are in a terror chain with poor stunbreaks.

You are an Engineer using Elixir C or Cleaning Elixir 409? You are then better off on another profession such as Ele or Warrior.

Engineer has no counter to Necro but to avoid, or relog an Ele/Warrior. Please don’t confuse that for wilful laziness or a lack of desire to counter it.

ghaleon.2861:

Where did I said they’re oP because they run 2?? I never said they’re op because they run two in there……….

Trying to make a point vs. illiterate people is tough. I put it in bold for you if you want to sound it out again.

ghaleon.2861:

lol If you ran out things to say, then get back at me when you you’re stop being in DENIAL. You’re class is op, everbody knows it, even you.

As you tell me that I’m ‘in denial’ for the third time.. or that I’m sensitive, ‘pahetic’, paranoid, lmao. Don’t project your problems onto me. :P

Here’s my perspective on picks for conquest, and what’s more essential. This is where I feel ’what’s OP’ is more easily gleaned because this is what the game is balanced around. When you’re picking a strong comp in NA, Step 1: Get a really good Elementalist. Step 2: Get a good Necromancer (these are almost unicorns), Step 3: Get a really good Thief. Step 4: Pick the last 2-3 people on the team in this ideal order, but over-rided by what they main: Engineer, Elementalist, Warrior, Ranger.

In my opinion, Engineer is a top pick but not in overpowered territory for a couple reasons.

• Severely hard countered by Necromancer. RIP TCG with an Engi vs. that double condition Necro duo in today’s G4cup. RIP Oeggs and Five Gauge when Nos (necro) was on his game during the last 2/3 G4cups.

• Engi doesn’t have the advantage against D/D Ele on a side point.

• Can’t deny boons and decisively kill something as well as Thief or Necro.

I don’t want to oversimplify the Engineer, but these are two big reasons why Engineer can’t just easily poop all over a team. There are a ton of good things about Engineer that I acknowledge as well, just touching the cons as to why Engineer is kept in check.

Do you see what I’m saying? If they increased the cast time on shadow refuge as per your suggestion from 1/4 to 3/4, I’m saying that you should re-compensate the skill by allowing the thief and allies to exit the shadow refuge early and keep the stealth they accumulated.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Chaith.8256:

If they put a cast time on it, and then the player could exit refuge at any point without being revealed, then perhaps.

Chaith, it already has a cast time 1/4th second. I’m saying increase it to 3/4th’s seconds. I have no idea what you are talking about.

…………………………………………….

If they put a REAL cast time on it. That’s recognizable, and able to be reactively interrupted. Oye.

ghaleon.2861:

Chaith.8256:

ghaleon.2861:

I know because I heard it from one of my friends, not because I care

Hahahahaha

ghaleon.2861:

Lol Engi is meta……. it doesn’t matter how many your bring, they’re op as hell. But don’t worry, I’m sure “Grouch” will protect your class from nerfs. LMAO

Well I am just happy at least that you ditched the argument that ‘Engies r op cuz everybody takes 2 engies, remember when other professions were op and they took 2 of that class too?’

LOL, again putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said engis are op because ppl run 2. You’re pahetic, sensitive and in denial. PZzzzzzzz

Did you already forget that you said this:

ghaleon.2861:

Ppl running double engi, double ele. You call that balanced, stacking the same professions? The same thing when warrriors were super op and spirit rangers, stacking those ham/bows…

There is already a mechanic in place for Shadow Refuge to have a ‘ramp up’ or prep time for it be effective.

Remember that you are actively smacked with revealed debuff, stripping stealth, if you exit the refuge in under 4 seconds.

If they put a cast time on it, and then the player could exit refuge at any point without being revealed, then perhaps.

ghaleon.2861:

I know because I heard it from one of my friends, not because I care

Hahahahaha

ghaleon.2861:

Lol Engi is meta……. it doesn’t matter how many your bring, they’re op as hell. But don’t worry, I’m sure “Grouch” will protect your class from nerfs. LMAO

Well I am just happy at least that you ditched the argument that ‘Engies r op cuz everybody takes 2 engies, remember when other professions were op and they took 2 of that class too?’

Yeah okay because those guys on that team are doing it, it must be the new meta, and for that to happen, it must be overpowered. Engies must be overpowered. That logic.

ghaleon.2861:

I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth. You’re not the only ones doing it.

This is what I am joking with you about. The fact that you knew what team I’m on and what comp I run. Lol.

But I have no interest in “starting drama, bringing my pals into it, or being paranoid.” I just wanted to let you know that you are wrong about double Engi being popular/meta Which I think I have sufficiently done.

ghaleon.2861:

Chaith.8256:

ghaleon.2861:

I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth.

Whatever you say, pal. Your comment was 100% a reference to The Abjured after the Go4cup tonight.

The Dankening, Boreal, SlipperyDingoWranglers, Radioactive, Sharks with Lazers, the Absurd…

Nobody is running double Engi. I’m also telling you it’s not ideal, as well. Lmfao. It’s only ideal for us because Nos can’t go to china and we have 2 Engi mains.

So yes, you saying that double Engi in the same breath as ‘double Ele is pushing Guardian out of the meta’ is pretty wrong.

ghaleon.2861:

You’re not the only ones doing it. Players have been running double engi and double d/d since the runes and sigil change. And you don’t need to explain to me anything about strategy, I know the reason why they choose ele over guard. This is not the first time we’ve seen players running double d/d eles, we saw the same thing back at launch.

No, this is actually the first time in the history of GW2 that Guardians have not been a meta choice on NA. There may have been double Ele, but there never has been no Guards.

LOL, I don’t watch any streams and IDC about your team or anybody elses (no offense). And you’re wrong, ele took over the role of guard back at launch, for the same reasons they’re been played right now.

Sure bud. I say that it’s only because of ‘some team’ you mention that double engi comp, and you were the first to bring up the Abjured, and knew they shared that comp already.

I think you are caught. I can get Toker to give you an autograph if you like.

We can agree to disagree about Guardians being pushed out of the meta at launch. Guards were everything at launch.

ghaleon.2861:

I never said because your team is running it, stop putting words in my mouth.

Whatever you say, pal. Your comment was 100% a reference to The Abjured after the Go4cup tonight.

The Dankening, Boreal, SlipperyDingoWranglers, Radioactive, Sharks with Lazers, the Absurd…

Nobody is running double Engi. I’m also telling you it’s not ideal, as well. Lmfao. It’s only ideal for us because Nos can’t go to china and we have 2 Engi mains.

So yes, you saying that double Engi in the same breath as ‘double Ele is pushing Guardian out of the meta’ is pretty wrong.

ghaleon.2861:

You’re not the only ones doing it. Players have been running double engi and double d/d since the runes and sigil change. And you don’t need to explain to me anything about strategy, I know the reason why they choose ele over guard. This is not the first time we’ve seen players running double d/d eles, we saw the same thing back at launch.

No, this is actually the first time in the history of GW2 that Guardians have not been a meta choice on NA. There may have been double Ele, but there never has been no Guards.

Arken.3725:

Except we’re talking about a profession with such an ease of burying said burning. The example of both Guardian/Elementalist isn’t as prevalent as Engineer due to the lack of variety thus making it harder for it to stick.

People shouldn’t accept the fact that passive’s are here to stay. Applying burning with off-hand pistol is a MUCH more skillful way to apply burning instead of a random crit-proc. Bringing up the point about other random proc’s isn’t an argument as to why IP should stay the way it is but rather how others should change as well.

Edit: I’m talking about all strong procs, I think a rework would be nice.

Arken, if it’s as you say, and the reliable burning and on-crit sigils makes the gameplay so skill-less and automated, would you like to talk about alternatives?

When I think of what ‘rework’ means, all I can think of is your suggestions to make Incendiary Powder, or to add examples, Air, Fire, Blood, Generosity, all make your hands glowy or an icon appearing on your bar that cues the enemy to dodge.

To these kinds of reworks, I am very sceptical of.

Doom, Leeching, when I apply these swap-sigil buffs to myself, they’re up for a millisecond and then they’ve already applied to my enemy.

Hypothetically, when somebody is going ham on you from 1200 range with a Mesmer’s Greatsword, and their bar lights up for .000001 seconds with a ‘Air Sigil’ or ‘Fire Sigil’ attack telegraph, is it really going to make the game more skillful? Or would it instead just help Acro Thieves and Mesmers who blanket evade frame all the things when they are in trouble?

What if instead, certain abilities were just off-limits to applying on-crit or on-swap effects? Auto-attacks. I am getting at auto-attacks here.

Wouldn’t that favor many professions heavily? Some professions have tons of long ranged poking abilities no different than auto-attacks. Oh wow, the Longbow Ranger has to connect with Rapid Fire, Hunter’s Shot, or Point Blank Shot? Sounds skillful, and hard, /sarcasm.

On the other hand, some professions can’t deal strong damage while chasing, on fleeing foes relying solely on auto-attacking for mediocre damage, that now don’t proc anything. My underdog berserker static discharge Rifle Engineer with Air/Fire sigils would cry salty tears..

Seriously, show me a good alternative to all this ‘unskillful’ level of guaranteed damage that we absolutely can’t accept.

ghaleon.2861:

Players stacking double d/d eles pushing the bunker guard out of the meta. And stacking double engis, P/P with Balthazar runes and Celestial rifle.

Yeah okay because those guys on that team are doing it, it must be the new meta, and for that to happen, it must be overpowered. Engies must be overpowered. That logic.

To be completely honest, Necro/Engi is going to get teams more mileage than Engi/Engi, if the team is creating a suitable environment for the Necro to gank and excel at.

Double Engi is not even meta… I think that there is only one team doing that and staying somewhat competitive.

I think D/D Ele has pushed out Warriors and Rangers as the on-point holders and 1v1 side pointers. And when you don’t run a Mesmer who needs long range cleansing, and use a strategy that would pit an otherwise Guardian into a 2v2 that’s hard to win, Ele makes a lot more sense than Guardian.

My name is Five Gauge, I use a highly meta build that uses Incendiary Powder in tPvP. It procs once every 10 seconds on something and does 428 damage every second it’s not removed, for 5 seconds.

I think some people need to man the fak up. I have no problem taking twice the Air/Fire damage from crit procs in that 10 second time frame. Crit procs, they’re whatever at this point.

All the berserkers have a ton of crit procs. Engineers have Incendiary Powder. Warriors just cover the continent in fire. Fight a Guardian, dodge the key abilities, and you will probably still be burning. Fight an Ele and you will probably be burning. Look at a Necro funny and you will be CC’d for 3 seconds and take 3k damage by his nightmare runes.

Why can’t people just relinquish control and accept that being able to dodge spam every single point of incoming damage will never happen in GW2. Instead, channel that angst into making intelligent plays, and assuming you will be automatically taking a certain amount of pressure.

Reliable burning and other crit procs get the most hate, but nobody ever appreciates how they are single handedly the reasons why no-risk, never-die builds aren’t successfully cheesing people all day.

Nova Stiker.8396:

You’re right I’m not on the same wavelength as PvPers, I’m better

1v1 pressure is important, it’s great on a tanky team that can split well. But with 3 Cantips you are sacrificing to much offense for defense, Ele’s already have plenty of healing and condition removal, having more offensive capabilties makes a world of difference. Plus Phanta and Wakka’s element rotations were LOL, playing like Engineers, swapping around everything and see what was off cooldown instead of actual planning. I don’t think either of them reached 25 might stacks in a team fight.

Terrormancer is NOTHING without support, terror necros can’t shutdown without help but when they do have help, they can just casually shutdown time after time again.
If they honestly thought they could keep 2 glassy necromancers alive is beyond me. Not sure what Radioactive was thinking…

Elementalists are largely responsible for staying on point during skirmishes and stomping. If our Eles played trashcan double Arcane D/D Ele and gave up 75% of their condition removal, we wouldn’t stand a twinkie’s chance at fat camp.

You aren’t going to ever know what you’re talking about. That’s because all you do is hype yourself while you think you have it all figured out

Nova Stiker.8396:

Chaith.8256:

Nova Stiker.8396:

My elementalist build is basically the same as cheese Celestial D/D except with Powerful Auras for team protection, Glyph of Elemental Harmony for burst healing, Arcane Blast for ranged fire, chaos, smoke or frozen field blasts, Lightning Flash because obvious and Arcane Shield.

The difference is I actually have to time my auras and healing instead of just spamming them. It’s a bit sad to see top tier Elementalists still relying on spamming

Oh, you play downed state Elementalist, ie: no condition removal? Haha. Oh, you know how to survive on that build? Nice, man.

Well you can laugh at the actual strong Elementalist mechanics like Signet of Restoration, and Cleansing Water all the way to the graveyard.

LOL, you probably never been with a skilled Elementalist I understand. Don’t get me wrong, those are good skills, for 1v1 maps.

kitten , if I only gotten a team together
I would so bring back the bunker necromancer. People forgot how good that was.

Now I can see why you’ve gotten so far, Radioactive with 3 power necromancers and assuming Lich Form wins team fights. Power necromancer isn’t even a hard counter! Not only did they fail to being a soft counter but they took 3 necromancers with an elite that is easy to play around.

Phanta and Wakkey are pretty awesome Eles.

Strong 1v1 pressure is always important.

Radioactive had a terrormancer. Lich form and banners do win team fights. It’s the subsequent teamfights that they do not win. Because long cooldowns.

You will not bring back ‘bunker necromancer’.

I’m pretty sure you don’t know what a ‘bunker’ is.

You just aren’t on the same wavelength as PvPers.

Zero Day.2594:

Nova Stiker.8396:

coglin.1867:

I don’t get all of the unoriginal buzz word regurgitation like “spam”.

As you suggesting your teams players spend time in a fight being idle? If so, that is probably a bad idea. If not, they are “spamming”, as you would put it, attacks as much as anyone else then.

Spam is using skills carelessly yet not punished for it.

Um, Google (no it’s not the All-Mighty, but it does have a good dictionary for all the terms) thinks otherwise:

Spam:

noun
noun: spam; plural noun: spams; noun: Spam

1. irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.
unwanted or intrusive advertising on the Internet.
“an autogenerated spam website”

2. trademark
a canned meat product made mainly from ham.

verb
verb: spam; 3rd person present: spams; past tense: spammed; past participle: spammed; gerund or present participle: spamming

1.send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet.

:| So I think what you’re trying to describe falls closely under the 1st/3rd definition.
“Carelessly yet not punished for it” – that’s very vague. For instance… in sc2, you can do a 6-pool rush as a zerg, that’s where you “spam”/create nothing but zerglings after you’ve created a spawning pool at 6 supply (gist of it)… Now that tactic is considering “cheesy” and you “spam”, it can actually get you into platinum pretty easily (at least I was able to in 3v3’s)… BUT even if it’s “spamming”, the very bad thing about it is if the opponent counters you, it sets you up for a world of hurt – punishing you for it a bit or losing you the game (if the opponent knows what they’re doing). So I guess by your definition doing 6-pool isn’t “spamming” zerglings since it does punish the player that’s doing it (provided the opponent knows a way around it).

@Vikk
This “balance” forum is the most troll forum out of all the GW2 forums… This is the place where people come to QQ… that or the specific class forums by which they got owned by. It’s a fun place to screw around.

Yeah no, I don’t think a dictionary definition is appropriate for what it means to
spam abilities in an MMO.

Nova Stiker.8396:

My elementalist build is basically the same as cheese Celestial D/D except with Powerful Auras for team protection, Glyph of Elemental Harmony for burst healing, Arcane Blast for ranged fire, chaos, smoke or frozen field blasts, Lightning Flash because obvious and Arcane Shield.

The difference is I actually have to time my auras and healing instead of just spamming them. It’s a bit sad to see top tier Elementalists still relying on spamming

Oh, you play downed state Elementalist, ie: no condition removal? Haha. Oh, you know how to survive on that build? Nice, man.

Well you can laugh at the actual strong Elementalist mechanics like Signet of Restoration, and Cleansing Water all the way to the graveyard.

VitalSuit.1980:

Chaith.8256:

High-er dps, better control. Or the option to run a successful condition build.

The Ele is much more inflexible if you’re at a competitive enough level to care about learning the stronger profession choice.

Uh? With Lightning Hammer isn’t ele dps the highest out of all professions?

Different game mode perspectives, should have disclaimer’d!

Nova Stiker.8396:

I don’t have a team for TeamQ and every team I applied weren’t good enough.

Did you consider the possibility that your delusions of being the Elementalist messiah might be causing teams to dismiss you as a weirdo?

Nova Stiker.8396:

Oh, I’ll be happy to teach Eggs and Phantaram how to play Ele and survive without 3 Cantips.

Oh, well, I don’t remember anyone asking for your expertise, but if you wouldn’t mind, please disclose your superior Elementalist build, forged in the fiery depths of a single night in Solo Q.

Though it appears from what you say that the success of the build is only made possible by transcending human reaction time, as you have done. Because of this, I fear it may be out of Phantaram’s grasp. Futile as it may be, I accept, and ask that you start the training immediately.

ghaleon.2861:

d/d ele and engis are dominating pvp, you can try to defend your class all you want, but engi has been op for a long time untouched by the balance team. Ppl running double engi, double ele. You call that balanced, stacking the same professions? The same thing when warrriors were super op and spirit rangers, stacking those ham/bows… Anet didn’t learn anything when d/d ele was op back at launch, because they made them stronger when they introduced celestial. Now we got double d/d eles running around PvP again. So no, balance is worse now, because those runes and sigils changes made some classes ridiculously op.

You know what?

There are teams at the maximum height of competition that run: Guardians, Mesmers, Necromancers, Warriors, Thieves, Elementalists, and Engineers. The only thing that’s underpowered in 5v5 conquest as the reason for it’s absence is the Ranger, at least in my opinion.

Some top teams think that Engineers and Necromancers are meh. Lots of top teams revere a Thief/Mes/Guardian core as the best possible setup. Maybe watch some EU gameplay, where there is a much broader pool of competitive players?

You have a chip on your shoulder about Celestial stats the sigils and runes that accompany them. Are you going to go out on a limb and say that they are out of line gamebreaking when you can toss on other powerful setups such as Air/Fire sigil combos on other professions?

Ele/Ele/Engi/Engi/Thief can lose to Necro/Engi/Thief/Warrior/Ele just fine. Maybe watch some of the weekly cups on NA?

Broaden your horizons a little.

Edit: The only thing limiting you from freely playing any profession, or comp you want is your own limiting beliefs. Unless you want to use multiple Rangers. LMAO.

^And if you want to argue me on that point, then I can confidently say that that it’s going to be 95% based on the player, and 5% based on the profession if you do ever hit a wall due to the comp you run.

ghaleon.2861:

Lopez.7369:

No class is breaking PvP. The classes that are too strong are barely too strong. (If you disagree, think about why almost every high-level player, regardless of class, agrees the game is as balanced as it’s ever been.)

With that said, engineers should have their condition output nerfed and cleansing buffed.

If you call passive fears, IP, fire+air proc, celestial amulet, Balthazar runes, strength runes balanced. Then you’re in denial, and that’s just scratching the surface.

Well I don’t think he claimed that sigils and runes were breaking PvP so why would you assume he’s in denial?

He only said that classes weren’t.

Nova Stiker.8396:

The Abjured team comp is not ideal.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I’m actually amazed that they got as far as they did.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Hell, two thieves can easily focus fire, land two steals and that ele will be looking at freaking 20 seconds of Chill.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Two hambows with an elementalist supporting is beastly, my buddy told me I buffed him so high that his autos with Hammer where hitting 4k per hit with soldiers amulet.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I’ve been on teams that had ideal team comp yet one random Terror necro spamming 2+ seconds of fear on everyone just wrecked us in tPvP.

My brother, you have been sitting at 141 wins in team queue, with a win rate in the 50%’s, ranked 68th percentile, pretty much identical to when I looked you up last year.

I think that ‘buddy’ of yours who plays Warrior, and everyone else playing in your ideal team comp must be imaginary friends of yours.

Dojo.1867:

Was adressing Frenk. Sorry.

TLDR: I don’t think giving gadget engi heavy boon access makes them a warrior.

Btw imo currently engi absolutely needs Toolkit and also the Incendiary Ammo trait but those are clearly OP from an isolated point of view and should be changed once engi gets other tools. It will always be incredible hard for other utilities like gadgets to compete with that one slot efficiency machine that is tool kit. For the undodgable burn I think that engi has enough burn sources that they should not get it thrown in their face as a trait if you play grenades that has no burn as pretty much its single downside.

I think Frenk was referring to my initial idea for Utility Goggles to prevent conditions from being applied. Like a mini berserker stance. Or adding a small regen to A.E.D while you’re saving it forever, for when you go down. That mechanic is a little reminiscent of Healing Signet.

Well, I’m no developer, but I know from a developer standpoint, implementing something like that would not mark their finest moment, lol.

I feel like having a ‘regular’ elite would be a huge quality of life improvement for Engineer – regular as in, a relatively low cooldown elite that is actually integrated into the build, not some arbitrary as heck’ 3 minute cooldown. Things that are well integrated like Basilisk Venom, Signet of Rage, Renewed Focus, Flesh Golem, Mass Invisibility, Entangle.

I think Arenanet should develop a new mechanic they feel happy with, that’s cool, fun, and has flavor. Include the Ele in this endeavour as well, re-balancing pending.

High-er dps, better control. Or the option to run a successful condition build.

The Ele is much more inflexible if you’re at a competitive enough level to care about learning the stronger profession choice.

Dojo.1867:

Beside that I find this argument really odd. You can always force different classes in nearly identical playstyles. That is how the build system works and it is good that way. There are still some mechanics that are unique to a certain class and for warriors I would say it is just the raw amount of base stats and high weapon variety.

Everyone has boons, so what.

You lost me. What post are you replying to

Frenk.5917:

I like your eyebrows, Chaith, but you are proposing to turn engineers into warriors.

Nah there are other ways to do things that don’t just copy warrior mechanics.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrtbxkLseNSaBNy0MHRGyt85JcgAA-TJRHwAFeAAAuAAk2f4YZAA

Here is the best non-grenade Cele Rifle build that I’ve found.

The guy above me has the damage combo down, but there’s one more thing to learn.

Smoke Bomb → Jump Shot → Big Ol’ Bomb → Magnet Pull before that combo.

Stealth Magnet pulls are many times stronger than ones with a telegraph. Bombs and Toolkit are traited so Jump Shot syncs up as well on a 20 second cooldown, so you can do this gank opener every 20 seconds.

Honestly though, the build can’t chase. It pretty much only fights on point, but does that well. If an enemy exceeds like 400 distance from you, all you can do is helplessly EG1 or Rifle1 spam.

Dojo.1867:

Just increase the boon durations by about 50% and make the toolbelt skills of each gadget give the boons as well.

Or make a “Gadgets are instant” removing the casting animation like on guardian meditations which would be really good for PBR and the healing skill.

I like the first suggestion.

With gadget traits and 4 pts in Alchemy, here’s what that would do to to Gadget builds, assuming it were possible to literally spam your abilities on cooldown.

• PBR could potentially give 125% uptime of fury.

• Slick Shoes could give a maximum of 101% uptime of Regen.

• Throw Mine could give up to 8 Aegis per minute.

• A.E.D could give a whopping 37% uptime of Retaliation. *fart noise

• Rocket Boots could give 90% uptime of vigor.

• Utility Goggles could give about perma 5 stacks of might.

I don’t like the ‘make gadgets instant’ trait as much, though. 2/6 Gadgets are already instant.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I know personal battering ram hits only once, but redesigning the animation and making it hit twice within and double daze would make it cooler. Rocket boots and utility goggles are still weak, agreed. That is why I wanted to add a stun break to rocket kick and turn it into 600 leap (maybe also a finisher). This would allow more mobility, which engineer sorely lacks as a medium armor profession and mid range fighter (I feel that engi is excels at mid range combat, at longer distance LB ranger clearly wins and melee range you have a lot of other good options). At the same time I wanted to tone down its damage and increase it’s cooldown, not to make it overpowered.

Yeah that all sounds pretty cool. Although I don’t know if the Daze on Launch PBR will be good, because that breaks knockdowns from overcharged shot and PBR knockdown itself. Hitting twice would be good, pretty much as good as Throw Wrench, if not exactly alike.

I would definitely see Rocket Boots getting some play from me if I could use it in my utility slot reserved for stunbreaks, instead of the utility slot reserved to supplement my combat damage/defense. Period. That’s what it needs, imo.

Creld.8702:

Without a kit, the most functional gadget build currently seems to be healing turret, boots, shoes, goggles, and supply crate. It lends itself to a medium to high damage roaming build, with fairly good escapes and chase.

With a kit, the most function gadget build seems to be healing turret, tool kit (for defense and Static Discharge), boots, goggles, and crate. The boots can be replaced with shoes if more survivability is preferred, but it means you have one less way to proc discharge.

The problems with both these builds are fairly obvious. The first is fairly dumb. Just like pure signets doesn’t make a competitive build, pure gadgets don’t work very well. They can be viable if you’re good and know how to counter your enemies with them, but it’s simply not a build you will see at high end play. The second has its own troubles. Tool kit adds some damage over shoes, along with a good block and its own soft and hard cc, but it isn’t enough to keep you in the fight for much longer than shoes, and it lacks a stunbreaker. The rest plays out the same as 3 gadgets; highly mobile, goodish damage, but not super threatening.

A big thing to note in both of those builds, AED is fairly worthless. It a longer cast time than healing turret, doesn’t provide a field or on command condition cleanse, and its tool belt is almost too short range to hit with. While it does proc another hit of SD, it is not enough damage to make it worthwhile.

I personally would love to see gadgeteer able to stand its ground against celestial rifle, but there is no way it can do that currently. Even with full zerk, it does less damage, has no condition pressure, doesn’t synergize well with most kits, and its trait (gadget cooldown) competes with the better choice of perma-swiftness/vigor. Without the perma swiftness, you need inventions to maintain good speed consistently, and you run out of room for traits that might offer better hybridization. (I wonder what 6/0/0/2/6 would do… Probably too squishy?)

Most of your analysis is correct.. like you said, like pure signets, pure gadgets aren’t going to make a good build necessarily, no matter how much one wants to use only gadgets.

Gadgets are more realistic in the sense that they should be able to be swapped in as a viable stunbreak, or be a viable alternative as an Engineer’s third slot, usually filled by the second kit to supplement offense, defense, and utility.

However, I feel comfortable in using Slick Shoes as my stun break. At the moment it is the only successful gadget, in my opinion. While the Rocket Boots are handy for getting around in an MMO, they’re somewhat of a hinderance to combat ability. Throw Mine, Personal Battering Ram, Utility Goggles, these utilities are just in serious need of a place in the world.

Phaeton.9582:

Well the battering ram suggestion is just enabling engis to do something they shouldn’t be able to do.

Phaeton.9582:

Engi already has some of the best res and stomp denial tools in the game.

These two statements are contradicting. Also, take into account how bad your build needs to be to be 6 into tools and slot Personal Battering Ram. It needs to be dang sexy.

Phaeton.9582:

As for the utility goggles, I’m all for Engineers to have more resistance to condi burst, however we all know how warriors were with 8 seconds of immunity when that was implemented. How about if for 3 seconds all incoming conditions were converted to boons? That would immediately stop Necros from brainlessly landing their dark path wombo combo ftw, without going overboard on mitigation up time.

No arguments here. 5 seconds or 3 seconds works.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Ayrilana.1396:

Is that a soda can on the bottom left of the picture?

I cannot quite tell what kind of beverage that is, can someone inform me? This is really intrigueing

Don’t worry. I’ve cracked the code!

Laughed until it hurt… that was so well done.

insanemaniac.2456:

so aed + 2 gadgets + a kit would be an optimal gadget build imo? that leaves quite a bit of room for your gadget choices.

Yeah.

Gadget Stunbreak, a kit, and ideally an offensive Gadget.

If I were to bring:

• A Gadget Stunbreak. (Utility Goggles, Slick Shoes)
• A Kit. (Bomb or Grenade main DPS KIT)
• Rocket Boots

I feel like the damage might be just a tad low. Since Rocket boots can’t really pump as much damage as the Toolkit’s Throw Wrench and Prybar, I think the build’s pressure would be hit a bit, is all.

That’s why I suggested it go in the Gadget Stunbreak slot instead of the offensive Gadget slot.

Like honestly, for that third spot, the first two being a Kit and Stunbreak, such a gadget would have to compete in offense and defense with Tool Kit which is what it would be replacing. Untraited, Toolkit is a boss.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I think everybody agrees that gadget skills are underused. Here are some suggestions:

Rocket boots
The final part of the animation is often bugged and often either freezes the engi or goes backwards, basically working against the engineer who wants to disengage. It should evade.
Rocket kick
Instead of being a DPS skill it could be more utility and mobility. Make it a leap skill of 600 range and stun break, reduce burn to 4 seconds, increase CD to 30 s

Slick shoes
reduce cooldown to 35 s (rather weak with current cooldown)
Super speed
Give stability for 5 s in addition to the increased speed (which in most situations same speed as swiftness, thus not very useful)

Utility Goggles
reduce cooldown to 35 s (same)

Launch Personal Battering Ram
2xDaze instead of cripple (daze when going forth, then 2nd daze when the ram goes back)

Not bad ideas, but don’t underestimate Slick Shoes as it is currently. It was just buffed fairly significantly. Rocket Boots, Ram, and Utility Goggles are very undertuned at the moment though. Also Launch Personal Battering Ram only hits once, not twice.

Here is the teaser image:

It’s what appears to be the Temple of the Silent Storm viewed through a gothic-styled portal or window of sorts.

insanemaniac.2456:

i think i would rather have rocket boots evade than stunbreak!

The stunbreak would reduce the build limitations. I think that an evade would be super clutch, but if an Engineer were to take Rocket Boots in the 1 stunbreak slot Engineers have, #yolo no stunbreak is not always an option, haha.

I see it similar to the ‘Shielded Mind’ trait logic on the Virtues Guardian.

Cygnus.6903:

Chaith.8256:

Proposed: Gadgeteer: Gadgets grant additional powerful effects.

• Personal Battering Ram – Hit up to 5 enemies, removing stability from those affected.
• Utility Goggles – Prevents conditions from being applied for 5 seconds. (No longer grants immunity to blind for 10 seconds)

These two seem vastly overpowered. An engineer that has a guarantueed AoE stability removal? No thank you.

Just making it AoE makes this skill quite strong, can compare it to something like a warrior’s stomp (no stun break but only 25 sec cooldown and a very quick casttime).

Utility goggles basically being a 5 second Berserker Stance with Fury, a stunbreaker, 10 stacks of vulnerability and reveal skill all in one? No thank you.

Maybe give it an immunity to blind and poison?

“AoE”

130 range and only in front of the Engineer, yes, AoE in that area. Lmao. Basically it punishes people that are all huddled up.

Have you tried using Utility Goggles recently? You will get shrekt. No way around it, it’s just too poor of a defensive stunbreak, and saving it for when you need the only stunbreak your build can carry, it really defeats the purpose of being immune to blind and gaining fury (used for attacking.)

Compared to untraited Elixir S I still think people would take my proposed Utility Goggles only if it was a Necro and Thief hell. Dumping a Grandmaster into it should at least make the traited stunbreaks competitive with untraited Elixir S, or Slick Shoes low cooldown stunbreak/mobility.

Anymras.5729:

I’d almost suggest something like ‘Also, with this trait, Gadget toolbelt skills can be swapped out for other Gadget toolbelt skills,’ but that’d just…be awkward. Also, possibly OP.

Hah, yeah. That’s an overcomplicated UI nightmare.

If anything additional was needed, it shouldn’t make a ‘new’ Gadgeteer trait too bloated. I would just say, throw a 15% damage increase to gadget abilities.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how about giving additional recharge time reduce on top of that?

i.e.
Proposed: Gadgeteer: Gadgets grant additional powerful effects. Further reduces recharge on gadgets, stacks with Speedy Gadgets.
Recharge reduced: 20%

if [trait] Speedy Gadgets is taken as well, then total recharge reduced is 40% instead of 20% since many gadgets have long recharge time, this should allow gadgets to be used more often.

If Arenanet would acknowledge that builds that run 2 gadgets and go 6 points in tools need help, (LOL) that’d be enough of a victory. If any suggestions floating around on buffing them got in, I’d be ecstatic.

I think they could even need another boost like what you’re suggesting. My only problem is that it’s not a very unique or cool boost. And a 40% reduction to things like Rocket Boots, taking it down to 12 seconds, seems a little out of hand, even if it was intended for long gadgets like slick shoes, A.E.D, or Utility Goggles.