Guild Wars 2

Heh, I don’t think it’s a problem. I wanted to wait because Ross and I both recorded the videos from opposite perspectives.

The thing with Ross’s build in these vids (Assuming you saw Vid 4) is that I made it extremely difficult for him to lock me down. He couldn’t properly get off the usual chainstun from pistol/mantra/sword that would’ve allowed his phantasms to eat me alive. That really stunted his effectiveness, as I was still able to smack him down with interrupts and shatters (btw, Shatterlock is unspeakably fun. Totally forgot how great it feels to run)

His build works best mid-range. Kiting like a phantasm build but landing clutch stuns/interrupts to keep the opponent on the defense. I’ve run his build before, so I knew how to steal that momentum from him, but as the videos show all it takes is one mistake for things to go downhill for me. (Though I maintain that Ross should’ve still been shattering more. =P)

This build will rip up most glassier opponents, and anything that’s not a tank or … engineer or elementalist will have a hell of a time winning 1v1 against it. The phantasms hit hard enough that he can afford to divide his attention and engage multiple targets.. but in a thiefy kind of way in that he can’t afford to be noticed before he engages. If he manages to strike without being seen first that initial rush does monstrous damage and sets the battle in his favor, all the while he can be spending stuns/dazes on helping his allies.

Wat? O.o those weren’t supposed to be public just yet.

Edit: Videos are now public!

Thank you for so eloquently urinating on my ideas Pyro! =P You’re kinda-sorta right. I don’t want to dismiss the trait just yet without looking at it from all angles. Not until this nagging feeling is satisfied.

Actually, I considered what you’re saying almost immediately as I the theory came to mind and almost dismissed the whole idea as a result. But the flaw with that logic is that not all traits are equally as effective when employed by two of the same build. Take Bountiful Disillusionment for example; Two Mesmers running it wouldn’t really be any more or less useful than one Mesmer however Power Block is a bit different because of the potential for AoE interrupts.

Now like I said, the biggest hurdle is of course the question of “Why bring two power block Mesmer in the first place when you could have ‘X’ instead?” but for now I want to look past that and consider the possibility.

My logic here is that because of abilities like iWave and TempCurtain, two Power Block Mesmers together would be more effective than two Confounding Suggestions or Chaotic Interruption Mesmer would be in the same scenario. Confounding is specific to dazes, which are mostly single-target (despite sword and MoDistraction being able to hit multiple targets). Chaotic Interruption’s immobs can be cleansed by teammates, ect. Power Block is different in that there’s pretty much nothing an opponent can do to mitigate it.

The scenario rolling around in my head involves two Power Block mesmer running Sw/Focus – GS. Temp Curtain’s Pull catches a DPS guard doing that silly spin, yet also interrupts Necro in DS, putting a skill on 10s CD. The other mesmer’s pull -though he was targetting a different target- also interrupts another of the Necro’s abilities, though he was never the original target of either of the PB Mesmers, two of his abilities are now on a 10s CD.

If that had been two Mesmer running CS or CI, the result wouldn’t be nearly as profound. I know that the theory is somewhat shallow, and could be extremely niche. But I won’t be satisfied until I atleast try to explore the possibilities.

I do it kinda odd. I hit about face twice and during the second press I hit phase retreat at the exact same time. (Its at 8:53 if it doesn’t automatically bring you to that point)

Jurica this is good stuff, plz keep it up! Gonna add it to the Grimoire along with Ross’s PvP primer.

@Pyro: I agree completely, though I may have worded it wrong. What I argue is that player skill is more important than the build being run in most cases. As you become more and more competitive, the build options begin to narrow of course, but most players shouldn’t think that “shatter or nothing” is the way to go if they’re not endeavoring to be that competitive.

@trooper: There were a couple reasons I ended up switching over. For a long time I stubbornly clung to CS but as I experimented more with CI I began to realize a few things…

4/4/6 is an extremely strong build, arguably as strong kittenter and in some cases even stronger (as in, there are some build matchups where CI is a stronger choice), but what drew me to CI is the synergy the trait has with staff and focus. Sword/Focus – Staff is not a weaponset you commonly see, and the Phantasms of these two sets can barely hit a three-legged dolyak on their own. Chaotic Interruption allows me a way to reliably ensure my phantasm’s damage (and iWarlock loves the 20% damage boost that comes from applying 2 conditions per interrupt) . Also, both weapons allow for a lot of team support and are just really versatile in general. IMO You can be extremely creative with sword/focus-staff and adapt to more situations than you could with sw/sw – staff.

Also, I’ve grown fond of interrupting over chaining stuns. The interrupt “playstyle” is more appealing to me, and since I’ve become pretty good at it it is much harder for me to go back to the RNG style of 50/50 stun chance. Dazes don’t have the same oomph as immobilizes.

And finally, it’s more durable. 6/4/4 is pretty beefy too, but having the ability to land blinds on interrupt, the extra 100 toughness, and having a focus on hand allow me to fight harder and stay in the paint longer in teamfights without having to fall back and heal. Combined with Pack runes (glorious with a focus and 30 Chaos) and 4/4/6 just ends up offering me more than 6/4/4 did.

… That being said, I’m currently running 6/2/0/0/6 sw/sw-Staff to get over my horrible dodge-wasting problem.

MeGamesMa!! I thought you had vanished! Good to see ya, and yeah I sorta quit for a few and then got dragged back. I don’t play nearly as often as I used to, and spend most of my time teaching newer players, but I’ve made quite a few friends here that I didn’t wan a lose touch with. Whenever I’m not bottled down by work or martial arts I try to hop on.

@Anni Are ya on US or EU? Sounds like yer having trouble managing your defensive cooldowns, we could work on that in the arena if you’d like.

Please.. please don’t feed the troll. I can guarantee you there will be no intelligible discussion here, no matter what facts you put out.

Arcane Brilliance currently activates its BLAST finisher under your target, rather than under the caster like it is supposed to. This leads to Eles being unable to blast their own fields if their target runs off somewhere.

Currently you have to deselect a target, activate the skill to make the blast work properly, and then reselect. Please fix!

Curunen.8729:

Well it kind of makes sense that it’s better to be a Grand Master in one specialism and competent at a couple of others.

But I dunno – spreads like 2/4/3/5/0 also work well.

They do, but have 4, 4, and 6 somewhere seems to practically guarantee a competent build.. Atleast for Mesmers. o_O It’s not like you can throw 6, 2, 3,3,0 into a random assortment and have it work the same.

I believe anet designed some traits with the idea that certain traits could not be buffed because of how deadly they would be if more than one Mesmer ran it at a time in a single group. I feel like Power Block (Skills go on 10s CD rather than 5 when interrupted) is a prime example of one of those traits.

Now this idea runs into plenty of hiccups: “What kind of team would take two Domination-lockdown Mesmer?” comes to mind specifically.. but let’s just ignore all that for now and consider the possibilities here.

Power Block isn’t particularly fantastic on it’s own. You can’t really tell how effective it is and there aren’t many skills that are actually worth trying to put on a 10 second cooldown considering that heals are hard to stuff in a team fight, channeled skills go on full cooldown anyway, and skills like auto-attacks and Thief abilities can’t be put on CD anyways. But what if you’ve got more than one Mesmer running the trait in a group? I feel like Power Block may be one of those abilities that become significantly more dangerous in team fights when you’ve got two or more Mesmers casting interrupts. Especially since skills like Temporal Curtain(Focus 4), Chaos Storm(Staff 5), Illusionary Wave (GS 5) and MoDistraction hit in an AoE.

What do you think? Could it be that Power Block may need more testing before being regarded as worthless (Sorta like poor Furious Interruption, which still deserves a deeper look)? If anyone would like to run some tests with me on this, maybe we could get some people together in the [OMFG] arena to see if Power Block could possibly be stronger than originally perceived.

Is it me, or does nearly any combination of 4 -4 -6 make for a decent, workable Mesmer build?

This is especially the case for Domination and Dueling: 4/4/6, 4/4/0/6, and 4/4/0/0/6 can all make some strong builds, but it seems you can break that down even further: Throw 4 in dueling, and then 4 in anywhere else and 6 in another traitline.. Odds are you have the beginnings of a build that can hold it’s own.

Am I seeing things here, or is this really a Mesmer build trend?

I know that the title sounds like a continuation of this thread but it’s not.. Sorta.

If you play Mesmer and have crafted your own build then I’m sure you’ve heard it before, whether PvP, PvE, or WvW:

“What is that? Whatever the hell you’re running isn’t viable.”

Many Mesmer players are a creative bunch, and there are loads of traits and utilities that are a lot of fun or highly interesting to use but don’t fit into the meta for one reason or another, and thus get labeled as unviable. As a result, builds that take these traits often too-quickly fall to the wayside.

Lets get something straight: Meta builds are meta for a reason, and that reason is usually because of all the competition, they’re the best at what they do. Shatter is the best in PvP, PU is the best at WvW roaming, Mantra/Phant is the best in PvE. But this does not mean that anything that isn’t one of these specific builds is bad.. quite the opposite.

I often feel that people get too caught up in terms and labels. “Viable” gets misused too frequently, good builds will be labeled “bad” if they are not the the absolute best, and creativity gets stunted as a result. These labels often don’t take one major factor into account: player skill.

Many of us have had instances where we’ve been happily playing our custom-made build and kicking all of the butts until we’re suddenly told that what our trait combo, amulet/gear sucks, even though they’ve worked fine for our purposes. This can often be helpful, and one should always keep an open mind for new information on how to improve but -IMO- one should never simply blindly compromise their ideas.

This is especially important in PvP, where meta builds reign in abundance. You’ll often hear that what you’re running isn’t viable if it is not shatter, ESPECIALLY if it is condition-based, but what is often overlooked is that there are actually a LOT of different good builds that can work very well all the way up until you reach the highest levels. But ask yourself: Are you playing PvP to compete against top tier teams and go to tournaments? If so, then you’re likely already playing shatter or have found a team that you can build around. These people are the few, but for the majority it really matters way less on what build you’re running as much as how well you’re running it.

6/6/0/2/0 can work. 0/4/6/4/0 can work. 4/4/6 condi can work and so can plenty of other combinations as long as the player behind the build is competent enough to make it work.

There’s the argument that if you could make these builds work, then you could make shatter work even better, and this is true to an extent, but again .. if you’re not playing for serious competition, then why shoehorn yourself into a build you don’t actually feel like running?

TL:DR- Don’t be afraid to explore! Your build isn’t as important as the skill of the player behind it, and experiencing different styles of play only serves to improve.

Why is it that whenever stuff like this pops up no one can actually point out the “issue”?

Nerf what exactly? And how do you nerf in a way that doesn’t further diminish the already limited build diversity of the class?

Better yet, why is it that the people who cry for nerfs always merge like 3 different Mesmer builds, 4 utilities and 4 different weapons into some crazy superbuild? People love throwing around the world “spammable” but what exactly is being spammed here? Decoy on a 40s CD? Blink on a 35s CD? Distortion on a 60s CD? Such spam.

This “argument” could actually gain traction if some solid facts were thrown in rather than vague generalizations ontop of “Mesmer is so hard to fight!”

My bad, should have elaborated.

I didn’t say that this build has no role. I meant that it is harder for this build to find a place in a team fight setting, moreso due to the single-target nature of the weapons.

This is from my experience, and compared to standard shatter/lockdown (which while to us here on the Mes forums CI is “standard” its still largely obscure compared to PU and Shatter) GS/Staff/Focus and even sword all contribute to team fights with more than just damage.

Staff – Ethereal field, aoe boons/condis
GS – Boonstrip, aoe knock back, heavy aoe damage
Focus – aoe pull, boons/conditions

A shatter build is unparalleled at AoE damage ( for mesmers, at least. Btw ever tried shatter with moPain? Fun times) and boon stripping, a CI build can often nail multiple immobilizes. Here,
all that stuff is traded off for mostly single-target lockdown/damage. Your shatters strip boons but phantasms are a higher focus. Its almost sorta like playing a thief but with more oppression and less mobility.

And despite that I’m not saying the build doesn’t have a role teamfights, but the things you’d usually expect from a Mesmer aren’t present and so your approach to big fights requires a bit more thought

Just wanna extend a big thanks to all of y’all! I’ve got plenty to keep in mind going forward and have noted the major points in the original post.

Hey dude, while I didn’t try out this EXACT build I ran something very similar for a while up until last week.

I’ll start off by saying that this build is a lot of fun! It should be obvious, I guess, since phantasms are fun and lockdown is fun, but this build combines the two concept in a very satisfying way. I agree with Tealots in that Furious Interruption works pretty well here -even if the grandmaster itself is lacking- and gives Scepter/Pistol (what I ran) an extremely noticeable performance boost. I coupled that with sigils of Rage/Paralysis to give some extra oomph to my pistol stun and more quickness on my scepter set. I find that a well-timed pistol stun can lead right into a nasty sword blurred shatter… And that’s BEFORE I bust out the phants (I try to soften them up a little before throwing swordsman out)

That being said, the biggest flaw I found was that double offhands is unfortunately too single-target. I struggled with outnumbered fights and wasn’t as effective as I could be in team fights. When I wasn’t noticed though, I could easily keep two separate opponents locked down, so I managed to influence fights by throwing stuns and interrupts into enemies that my allies were facing while my phantasms focused my target. Was nice, for sure.

All in all I recommend this build for anyone wanting to pick something up that’s a little different without being too difficult to learn. It suffers a similar problem to PU in finding a role/place in team fights but 1v1 its pretty beastly. While not the most competitively viable Mesmer build out there, its effective at what it does and there’s plenty fun to be had here.

… Annddd that totally sounded far more like a movie review than I intended. X.x

Excellent thread man. Mind if I link it in the grimoire?

Actually guys, please keep the criticisms coming. Not just for myself, but for anyone reading the thread and also looking to pick up tips. Seeing where I went wrong is a great way to learn.

@Ross: The Mesmer would’ve taken some time if they were good. The necro was a priority to me because lockdown Mesmer are uniquely suited to take down liches, and necros almost always lich in a team fight. You’re right though, I did overcommit a bit as I didn’t want to count on my team for.. Anything. I think my bigger problem was just poor positioning. 4/4/6 has such excellent defense that its hard not to go ballsout and dive face first into fights. Had I been more concerned with the flow of the battle, I may have been able to be more effective with less risk.

@Mango: You know its interesting. This is something I KNOW I do, and readily admit hat I blow dodges stupidly, yet reading it written back to me from another helps really cement that fact. I’ll keep that in mind for the future and actively work to correct it.
However sometimes I do send clones into fights for a number of reasons: chain dazes, aoe weakness, aegis procs, marks/traps, ether feast heals can all seem like random dodges… And I feel extra stylish jump-dodging. =P

@Warlord: Dude please lecture away, nitpick and pull things apart and let me know my flaws. I learn from fighting and training with you more than anything and I wouldn’t be the only one. Give me a write up on how I coulda done better, or more specifically.. What you would’ve done differently?

@Tealots: I’m still kicking myself for not recording that amazingly awesome match. So many portal plays!

Yeah, they should just carry me around on a sled with a little lockdown zappy gun!

(Note: There’s some excellent discussion about my badness in the comments. Read on for more stuff to learn!)

Wow, so I didn’t realize I could just add notes IN the youtube video. I know it seems obvious to most but… idk.. I’d always overlooked that kind of stuff, still not use to uploading. Nonetheless some new vids up with notes and combo info and a guest appearance by Tealots!

Build Link

Metabattle Link

• Chaotic Interruption loves Greatsword Mesmer and Necros

• Some portal plays, no deaths, and a Tealots!

THINGS LEARNED FROM THE COMMENTS

- Don’t attack an engineer on far. Let them die of old age.

- Stop spending dodges too liberally, especially not for the sake of mobility.

- Do not tunnel vision tankish opponents.

- More map awareness!

I had the same issue for a while. Apparently it’s a problem with Optimum, I used Spotflux to fix the issue.

Thanks man, but this stuff is all just building up MMR to face the real challenges. No one on that enemy team was particularly great, unfortunately, and its easy to look good against lower quality opponents. =/ (uh no offense intended to anyone)

Yes I am addicted to jump dodging.

And good call Ross! I admit I got careless and overconfident. “He’s not gonna shoot me in the face. Naw.” But you’re absolutely right.

Holl.3109:

As always, awesome stuff chaos. One thing: your keybinds 0-0
Put your elite on ‘G’ and MoD on ‘R’, that would make you even quicker. But feel free to do whatever you want, maybe you have the worlds longest fingers :P

My 6-0 keys are Shift+1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

And somehow I sometimes manage to alt+tab as a result x.X

Rift mage? Pfft. Mage with a sword plz! Knight Enchanter allday errday.

And yeah, I’ve always had a methodical, relaxed approach to lockdown with Sw/f – staff. More recently, after working with CS for a bit, I’ve been trying to focus on max damage bursts.

That first thief was dead no matter what I did, conditions were melting him regardless so I didn’t take the fight seriously. I was actually gonna leave Icy to finish his 1v1 but he dipped once he saw me.

In general, the problem I have with Thieves is that.. everything they do looks exactly the godkitten same. I’ve no idea what to look out for to interrupt. (and most consume plasma in stealth x_x )

I think that it isn’t so much that people don’t know how to deal with this spec (though entirely true) as much as its so hard to fight a competent lockdown Mesmer on another class. Normal rotations don’t work, a lot of moves can’t be used like they could against other classes, it’s a real -kind of fantastic- pain.

I’ve no idea where my MMR has slid in these past few months with me playing so sporadically, but I happened to be recording one of the ranked matches I was playing with Icyicyicy (A surprisingly talented offensive condi PU Mesmer) and noticed a few interesting things worth mentioning. I haven’t made the vid public yet since I haven’t written any notes on the gameplay, but still I wanted to share:

One thing I want to point out is how in a number of these fights, all it takes is a single interrupt to lead into pretty heavy bursts. Unfortunately not many 1v1s here, but the point is emphasized nonetheless.

0:45 – I shouldn’t have come to back up Icy, he was fine.

1:44 – I came too late, even if I had went straight for the rezz he would’ve died.

4:45 – Yes, that ranger was immobilized the entire time. This is a perfect demonstration of chaining interrupts for a heavy burst. Hitting him with an interrupt and dropping C-storm before using iWarlock is what allowed the 8k
hit.

6:10 – Helping end the fight quickly for the cap.

xDudisx.5914:

BlackDevil.9268:

xDudisx.5914:

StickerHappy.8052:

xDudisx.5914:

Nice topic. I was thinking in a celestial build for wvw mesmer

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRnsISja2pGmpB3aGB3gM1EQ9SGyJLdA+1AA-TlhIABAcEAQS53a6DgTJohq/8x+DkCgJlRA-w

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWnsISpa2oGmpB3aGB3gM5EaAq/xQOZJDwvA-TlhIABAcEAQS53a6CgTJohq/8x+DkCgJlRA-w

The biggest problem is that mesmer is not making much use of the healing power. Anet could give us a utility or trait or weapon skill that makes use of healing to make celstial mesmer viable.

I thought you were on a crusade in nerfing shatter mesmer?

I consider zerker shater mesmer op in spvp. Celestial is a completely different story. I think the underpowered specs need a buff

And what exactly makes shatter mesmer op in spvp? The fact that they can deal 10k damage with a full combo that is easy to see from far away on a 10 seconds cooldown while being left with no condition removal and poor sustain? Sounds very op to me.

Good mobility, ranged skills, insta cast skills, immunes, more hp than a thief.

Well in that case.. Ranger OP. Ele OP. Engineer OP. Warrior OP!

Crossplay.2067:

There’s a bit of a story with my image. A while ago, someone suggested that, between Jennah and Anise, one is the illusion of the other. A guy from Anet outright denounced the idea but I loved it so much, I decided to run with it. So, storywise, my mesmer has multiple personality disorder but her other personalities manifest as her illusions. This is all of them together.

That is so clever. Love it

What to do if your team wipes.

For the love of Lyssa stop people from drip-feeding back into a fight!

While normally I oppose most signet of inspiration changes, I really quite like this!

Dixo.3876:

Does this count?

Solid Snake would be proud.

Lets see the most stylish Mesmers this form has to offer!

- Insert more thread filler here! -

masskillerxploit.2165:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Amir.1570:

Darnis.4056:

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Calls Engi, including grenade specs which are skill shots, brainless but plays a class that spams evades, has boon stripping, braindead easy DPS to land, has way too many “I screwed up stun breaks” and can have 6 condition clears every 10 seconds while negating any Berserker/Assassin’s amulet class that isn’t a Thief.

Your class is actually low-risk and medium reward right now. But back in the power meta, it was one of the most braindead zero risk class in the game. You want REAL high risk high reward? Play glass cannon Warrior and see if you still think Mesmer takes skill, lmao.

Learn humility already.

You just.. Like to throw out all sorts of nonsensical “facts” don’t you? What Mesmer build were you playing that made you such a prodigy that you could make such claims?

And then after all that to tell someone else to learn humility? Gawd.

Why? Danis is pink puma and he’s a better mesmer than everyone in that OMFG guild. Same goes for me and supcutie. I respect darnis’ post because some one had to say it and supcutie pretty much sumed up the issues with mesmers and tourneys (tldr cele meta).

For one, OMFG isn’t a .. uh.. guild – guild. If that makes sense. Its moreso a way for Mesmers to meet up and chat in-game. Secondly, it’s not a PvP-specific guild either. Thirdly, it mostly have players who’re trying to learn the class and learn from others. And fourthly.. I think Rylock would take issue with that. =P

Anyways. I respect you, supcutie, and plenty of others because yall are willing to explain your thought process in a way that would benefit others. You’ve specifically told me you’re willing to teach people shatter which is awesome (and we still need to have that duel btw)

I do not respect condescending posts that do nothing to help anyone but stroke one’s own ego. That whole “I rolled a Mesmer for a bit and didn’t have a hard time so it MUST be braindead easy” mentality is doing nothing but indirectly looking down on people who struggle with the class.

Annd yeah. Supcutie pretty much hit the nail on the head. Statements like “Oh mesmers just aren’t being creative enough” is assuming that people haven’t and aren’t trying to find new builds/roles for the class, which is false.

The only small changes I’d ask for currently (besides Ross’s suggestions on fixing OH Sword and Scepter counters) is for Mantra of Resolve and Concentration to get the standard 600r treatment rather than this personal space-invading 240r

There’s a problem with Restorative Illusions, and a very important reason why Warden’s feedback is really good to have.

Restorative Illusions heals for … well not much (around 1700 with three illusions) , and in order to really get mileage out of it you’ll have to be shattering pretty often, which is counterproductive to having Defender and Warden(Focus). In a bunker build, you’ll be relying a lot on your phantasms, and that’s part of the reason Restorative Mantras helps keep them alive. However, Restorative Illusions gains a big boost when used along with Illusionary Persona (Illusions XI). Suddenly even with one clone and IP (over 2000HP healed) you’re healing for far more than shattering all three of your clones without it. The catch, of course, is that you’re locked 6/6 into Illusions and Inspirations and can’t get Deceptive Evasion up in dueling. Another problem is that you really do not want to grab a grandmaster you’ll only use occasionally or that suits a playstyle different from yours when there’s potentially better options. If anything you could take those 2 points and move them elsewhere.

Warden’s feedback will give you access to reflects, which is important when you’re bunkering to shut down Engineers/Rangers/Warriors by sending their nonsense back at them. Both the warden and temporal curtain will reflect, and that’ll mitigate a big chunk of damage you would’ve taken otherwise.

Also.. if you’re bunkering, why scepter? Sword will give you better defenses in the form of mobility from the leap and the invuln in blurred frenzy.

Hey, I’ve run bunker Mesmer a couple times and there are a few things that I feel are required to make it work:

• iDefender
• Atleast 20 points in Chaos and Inspiration
• Restorative Mantras

Restorative Mantras is extremely important for keeping you alive, and Illusionary Defender absorbs half of your damage. I’d say to go for Ether Feast over Signet since Ether Feast is almost always going to net you more health when you need it rather than the HoT of Signet (which isn’t bad but .. Someone did the maths and Feast is still the stronger heal).

Since your goal is to fight on a point, you’re going to want Stability, and with Restorative Mantras that adds yet another heal to both you and all those around you.

Something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpEtVpxSNcrNytxYyGe40nkyLlMggB-TJxHwA+2fYZZADPBAAnCAA

is what I’m thinking, though I’ll admit I hadn’t put too much thought into the amulet and runes just yet. Boonshare/lockdown is great, really, but its not meant for bunkering and Signet of Inspiration wouldn’t be as helpful here.

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Sup is talking about tPvP scenarios such as teamfights ect. While 1v1 Condi shatter can really wreck classes even with high condi removal, this gets much harder in 2v2/3v3 situations where clones are less reliable, it’s harder to nail shatters and enemies aren’t only cleansing themselves but EACHOTHER. For example two torment shatter Mesmer would have a hard time against two cele-Eles, whereas 1 torment shatter wouldn’t have as much difficulty against 1 cele ele…

Celele?!

Amir.1570:

Darnis.4056:

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Calls Engi, including grenade specs which are skill shots, brainless but plays a class that spams evades, has boon stripping, braindead easy DPS to land, has way too many “I screwed up stun breaks” and can have 6 condition clears every 10 seconds while negating any Berserker/Assassin’s amulet class that isn’t a Thief.

Your class is actually low-risk and medium reward right now. But back in the power meta, it was one of the most braindead zero risk class in the game. You want REAL high risk high reward? Play glass cannon Warrior and see if you still think Mesmer takes skill, lmao.

Learn humility already.

You just.. Like to throw out all sorts of nonsensical “facts” don’t you? What Mesmer build were you playing that made you such a prodigy that you could make such claims?

And then after all that to tell someone else to learn humility? Gawd.

Dude.. Mesmer is monstrous in 1v1s against nearly all classes. What build do you run?

• What role do those builds play?

PU – Condition – A really ineffective 1vX build – because a d/d for example will just cap the point while you stealth around and do little damage.

Mantra Offensive – Good if you have a lot of support and want to blast someone’s face off. Problem is shatter is a better ratio of damage to survivability because you can still burst people with shatter, but you can also live a lot better than Mantra.

Mantra Support (Restorative Mantras) – It’s alright if you’re doing the bunker build I mentioned. You still have to cast mantras though.

CS/CI Lockdown – Lockdown is good if you have enough dps on your team. Problem here is that if you have enough dps on your team, there’s probably something better than lockdown to have instead. Like another Ele or engi.

Condi Shatter – Bad because you don’t do enough team fight damage, and you can’t 1v2 as good as a d/d, war, ranger, or even engi.

Power Phantasm – Your phantasms will die too quickly or be controlled by good players. The ramp up time is too long. If you’re a glass DPS, you need to come in, turn the fight/win it very quickly and leave. By quickly I mean if you’re outnumbering the enemy you should be able to kill them within 20 seconds most likely. It’s also not as good at 1vX as others.

• Any shoutouts?

Shout out to my Mesmer boizzzz:
Zeromis
Pyro
Chaos
Rylock
Helseth
Crazy Red Headz
Mime
Ender
These guys keep me trained up and on my toes!
I also want to thank
Zina!

And basically the whole PvP community, I love playing with you guys!
I’m probably forgetting a bunch of people I’m sorry haha! I love you all!

• How would you rate difficulty of fighting other classes from least to most? Any specific quick-tips against these classes?

From easiest to hardest:
Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

Warrior – Pretty easy if you kite. Dodge pin down, dodge hammer skills, don’t sit in AoE too long.

Guardian – You can kite them pretty well with staff, even meditation guardians can be slain now due to the extra bounce conditions with staff. Bunkers can be hard to kill sometimes, but usually they die eventually.

Necromancer – Stay max range as much as possible until you’re ready to make a swoop to do some damage, then get back out. If you take Mantra of Resolve this matchup is totally doable. If not, it sort of becomes a race against your health pool running out.

Elementalist – D/D is doable if you kite and stay away from the burn/shocking aura. S/F is quite difficult because their burst is instant and if they make it unpredictable you can’t counter it very effectively.

Ranger – They overwhelm you with conditions or burst you down with longbow. Out in the open, longbow will slay you, close range, conditions will slay you. Basically you need to be really diligent in line of sighting, doing damage when you can, healing with three clones for maximum sustain. If you can gank a longbow power ranger you can probably win, but just be careful. Stunbreak quickly if they stun you to avoid maul.

Thief – They have more stealth than you and it becomes a statistical guessing game that you lose.

You shouldn’t try to hold a point in your favor with Mesmer. You will be neuted almost immediately in all matchups. Leave the point holding to tankier people!

• If someone likes Mesmer but is looking to branch out, what other classes would you recommend?

Thief – Similar in terms of stealthy/elusive/bursty.
Necro/Engi – You do a lot of kiting.

• Do you feel standard shatter (4/4/0/0/6) is the only “viable” Mesmer comp? Why? Whats your favorite Mesmer playstyle BESIDES shatter?

Shatter is such a synergetic build it’s ridiculous. I think it’s most viable because it is so synergetic and has good cost-effectiveness in terms of traits, but also because of how Mesmer needs to be played based on it’s strengths/weaknesses.
My favorite Mesmer playstyle/build other than Shatter is lockdown/interrupt. With 4/4/6 using chaotic interruption/bountiful interruption/interrupt mantra instead of portal, and S/F GS. I have the build here: http://bit.ly/supcutielockdown You can use Hoelbrak/Traveler/or Pack runes instead of Lyssa.

• If you were kidnapped (bag over your head and all) sent to a warehouse and FORCED on your life to come up with the most viable, epic, amazing all-Mesmer comp. What would you put together and why?

All mesmers… Hm… Shatter, 2 bunker mes (like this build, except maybe have one take the cleanse mantra. http://bit.ly/zeromisbunker), maybe a phantasm, and then last you could do another bunker, shatter, or maybe a lockdown. I really have no idea haha. Basic idea is you need people who can rotate on and off points to hold it, so 2-3 bunkers, and then some damage dealers. Phantasm I feel like might be able to hold a point for a bit?

• Beyond shatter, other Mesmer types have wormed their way into PvP. What other builds have impressed you the most? What roles do you think the following builds should play:

Impressed: Chaotic Interruption lockdown and the bunker mesmer spec that Zeromis showed me http://bit.ly/zeromisbunker.

• How would you rate Mesmer weapons for PvP? Is there a place for offhand sword and pistol?

Most of Shatter mesmer’s damage is in GS attacks and shatters alongside staff autos from clones with the new extra bounce trait. This means that selecting weapons other than GS should come down to utility, since the investment of using a particular weapon won’t yield you proportionally enough effectiveness in terms of damage compared to GS or Shatters. Offhand pistol and sword are more damage related, and from my personal experience and many others, the damage doesn’t get off enough of the time against good players to be worthwhile. Also you have to use Sword mainhand if you want to use offhand pistol or sword, and currently mainhand sword is not as good as Staff in my opinion for sPvP. Staff has better matchups and is safer. You need a Thief on your team to peel other thieves anyway.

• What is your opinion of condition Mesmer? It’s got good 1v1 potential and the new Maimed trait is delicious.

Condition Mesmer is strong 1v1, but the current rotational meta in tPvP is such that you want your 1v1ers to also be good 1v2ers. There’s no point in risking a 1v1/1v2 on mesmer when you can have a d/d ele stalemate or even win most matchups and survive ganks fairly well while your thief/mes rotate around to gank advantageous fights. Condition mesmer also doesn’t have good enough condition application for team fights, so its effectiveness low compared to Shatter.

• It is often said that Mesmer is not viable in high end play. Could you elaborate on why this is, and what you would change? Also would you advise people againstplaying Mesmer?

It has always been the case that mesmer “can” be on a winning team, if the team puts enough time and effort into their comp, perfecting synergy and rotations on how to support the Mesmer. In the majority of GW2’s metas however, Mesmer comps have been seen as weaker versions of other comps. I think the reason for this is a combination of Mesmer being susceptible to condis, and Thieves. It means the Mesmer has low room for error for equal success relative to another profession. This relative effectiveness of Mesmer to other professions fluctuates with the meta, but in my opinion and I think many top players will agree, Mesmer has almost always(especially in the last year) resulted in a slightly weaker team composition compared to other comps.
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty. This could be a problem with Mesmer’s best spec being power based, and to be effective with power the Mesmer needs to stat for Power, Crit, and Ferocity. Whereas condi classes usually only require two stats, and then can have one defensive stat. Also, the nature of conditions is that most condi classes have many ways to apply them, so the spamminess becomes hard to dodge, whereas power classes usually have one big burst that if they miss due to a dodge or other form of mitigation, their relative effectiveness drops a lot compared to conditions. Obviously there is a lot of room for argument here but I think these are at least some leads as to why Mesmer seems to have trouble.
I wouldn’t advise against playing Mesmer, just know that if you want to be competitive, you will have a struggle ahead of you. I still enjoy playing it for fun. I solo queue and stream Mesmer gameplay. If you want to play to win however, Mesmer most likely isn’t in the answer.
I think a good place to start for changes would be nerfing celestial amulet simply put. I haven’t done the math on how many points to nerf the stats by, but maybe like 70-100 points each? Basically you just want to make it so that other amulets begin to look attractive again for Ele/Engi.

Click here for Part 2 of the Interview!

Supcutie has represented shatter Mesmer for pretty much as long as the game has been released. He has gone on to participate in the highest, most competitive level tournaments and still finds time to help tutor and instruct others. Despite all that, and still having a life, he’s written the most comprehensive and informative shatter Mesmer guide you’ll ever read!

I managed to get a few words on his general opinion on Mesmer in the PvP Meta from the perspective of a Shatter player. Next time I’ll get into tournament-specifics. Enjoy!

(Note this is all from one person’s -highly educated- perspective. Not everyone will agree, and if so/not feel free to discuss your opinion!)

• You know, the most awkward thing when speaking to you is trying not to call you “cutie” all the time. Why the name Supcutie?

To be perfectly honest, I used to go by another alias, but I wanted to change, and Supcutie was a placeholder until I thought of something better. And now here we are >_>

• What got you in to Mesmer? Why do you still consider it your “main” even if you’re not running it in tPvP?

When GW2 was first being announced, all of my friends and I were picking professions, and we didn’t want to be the same profession. So Reevzy picked engineer/elementalist, I thought I might like engineer too, but I picked Mesmer because I figured if GW2 can actually pull off a class that allows the player to confuse other players, I want to try that! I feel like Mesmer is a unique class type in that respect, even among other MMOs.
I started playing Mesmer in Beta alongside Ohriginal and some other WoW guys who were constantly so annoyed by always thinking they got the drop on me and it was just another clone. I just thought this was hilarious – The confusion was actually working! So I stuck with it! Little known fact, my first build was actually a tanky bunker type Mesmer using runes of the adventurer back when they gave you full endurance back. It was pretty good (no it wasn’t).
I consider Mesmer my main even if I don’t always play it in every comp I compete in because it’s my best profession, I enjoy it, and people know me for it.

• What is Mesmers strengths and role in PvP? What do we offer to a team that other classes can’t?

Mesmer’s role in sPvP/tPvP is a roaming damage dealer. You gank for your allies, and are the DPS to finish/turn a fight. Mesmer’s strength’s are high damage from range while being quite elusive (although Thieves will still get you if you don’t have support)
Another strength that Mesmer has is Portal. It’s not required, but it’s quite unique. It allows some crazy rotations that otherwise are not possible, netting your team some extra points over time that the other team won’t be able to get.
Some other strengths are:

Moa: which offers a direct counter to the enemy team’s transformations. It basically gives the enemy team an instant -1 player to their fight.

Mass Invisibility: Allowing quick deaggro/target swaps without needing to stand in a circle to blast or be refuged.

Clone fodder that will eat enemy procs like burning.

• What is the most common mistake you see newer players make?

It’s hard to pinpoint one thing that newer players do, but I would say with the PvP shatter spec it’s a combination of:

Not shattering enough.

Wasting clones by producing too many without shattering or not shattering them before they die.

Getting too close to the enemies – With Staff/GS there is little reason to get up close to do good enough damage. If you are stealthed and looking to open on something along side another burst then you can get closer.

Not reacting quick enough to CC – Since Mesmer is so fragile, you need to be ready to blink/decoy/distortion to mitigate as much damage as possible if people are looking to do damage to you.

Oh and Backpedalling! If you don’t need to face your opponent for an attack, you should be repositioning. This means using GS 4 for example while walking away or to a new place.

• What is the most common mistake you see advanced players make?

Positioning – many players will overextend too much and be collapsed on or picked by a Thief.
Wasting cooldowns. They will blow everything too quickly, or at the wrong time when there was a better solution.

In any case, there’s never a reason to use Mimic over other considerably better options.

But yeah, Mimic can be avoided as if it were a projectile (not reflected, but you get the picture)

I can’t tell if that was for the OP or for me. xD

(Just so you know, OP, Buton -Ross- had this awesome zerg busting build that relied on the old Mimic.. It went extinct with this craptastic change.)

Its exactly as you said. There are situations where Mimic could work, but like Feedback, Illusion of Life and so many others.. There’s just better options available and vying for that precious utility slot. Hell, Mimic + Arcane Thievery + Signet of Inspiration likely was anets idea behind the new mimic… And that’s just a recipe for disaster. X.x

As a player, we all have things we’re good at and things we are not so good at. Though it may seem odd, sharing these strengths weaknesses, and goals with each other can be a great way to learn from one another’s past.

In your Mesmering career, what have you found yourself particularly good at? Was there anything you sucked at that you overcame and how so? Is there anything you’re still working towards overcoming?

STRENGTHS

• Lockdown mesmer – Of all the Mesmer playestyles I’ve tried, I’d have to say I perform the best with Lockdown. I’m decent with shatter, condition, and phantasm and pretty good with boon share but lockdown clicks in a way the others don’t.

• Teaching/analyzing newer players. I spent a lot of time watching for patterns and reactions in my opponents and am decent at seeing things from the point of view of another. Helping people overcome their flaws and advising what they could do better comes naturally

• Proficient with sword/focus – Staff. A very hard weaponset to net damage out of without the right traits, and even then it takes some practice.

WEAKNESS

• Careless. As my videos demonstrate I can land some completely epic failures due to sheer carelessness and negligence. I’d be a much better player if I’d just .. Stop getting lazy mid-fight. People think I go easy on them as a result, but I really just make some dumb mistakes at inopportune times. I put up unedited videos for that reason, so people can see my mistakes and figure what they would’ve done differently.

• Positioning & Awareness lackluster. I don’t spin my camera around nearly as much as I should. I get caught off guard often as a result.. Which wouldn’t happen as much if I made sure to position better!

• Sucks with a great sword.

• Sucks with condition builds.

• Dungeons. I am a proud Leeroy Jenkins.

• Rarely plays sober. No more inebriated videos.. Promise. =P

Something that used to cripple me pretty badly – and still does from time to time – is that I have a habit of staring at my skillbar during hectic fights more than the actual fight itself. Its a habit carried over from when I used to click all my skills that I fall back to when stressed. I’ve been forcing myself to get over it by … Forcing myself to get over it haha! I’ll go into hotjoin and intentionally not look at my skills, occasionally glancing for a half second before continuing. While this may sound super simple, its actually makes a massive difference in how I play.

What say you? What have you learned about yourself in this Mesmery journey of ours?

Incognito is.. Pretty much the opposite of what you just posted bro. =P And here I thought it was a secret!

@Sandrox: You are right that my setup is more defensive than offensive, but I think you’re underestimating how powerful the Focus and staff phantasms are.

In the second video, the first fight I have with the shatter Mesmer leaves him almost entirely on defense, and the video with the necro shows how deadly stunlocking into iWarden can be. As much as I love sw/sw the focus speed and pull are too good for me to pass up, and the sword phantasm can’t absorb projectiles (good against other Mesmer) despite my absolute love for sw/sw I can’t fit it in many builds where another offhand wouldn’t be better.

One of the bigger factors in our fight that I forgot to mention was Decoy. Usually when I go up against Rylock I use blink and decoy since he uses the same; trading decoy for null field is a big loss of personal defense for the sake of team utility(I don’t often need the Condi removal surprisingly)

@Sticker: I’ll upload it soon… I’m pretty sure I still have it! Got more vid to put up, and if not we gotta make some memories man.

So as a few of you know, Dragon Age: Inquisition has taken my soul in a way no game has since Skyrim, and thus my GW2 time has been even more infrequent than usual. ( /cough sorry throwback thursdays. >_> this week tho!) So in preparation for the throwback build videos, I decided to get some practice with the builds in hotjoin. Had to scrape off over 3 weeks of rust after all.

… And then a certain Charr shows up.

And the training exercise turned into a manhunt. Man, I REALLY wish I had the first game recorded, Ry and I ended up caught up in an insanely epic 4v4 skirmish. What followed was.. Somewhat less epic, but I learned a valuable lesson last night I wanted to share with you all.

RHYTHM vs REACTION

One thing that separates a good player from a great one is the ability to react. While we all have good reaction, it is all too easy to fall into rotations and habit. iLeap into Blurred frenzy. Blurred Frenzy into shatter, Mirror Blade into MindSpike and so on. We all have a certain rhythm to how we play, and certain expectations of our opponents depending on their class.

Warlord and I have been fighting eachother on and off for over a year now, and we both worked on developing lockdown Mesmer tech in that time. Warlord is an opponent who you cannot make a mistake against and cannot be predictable. I, in my foolishess, did both. While against any other opponent I destroyed, against someone as capable as Rylock my predictable rotations and reactions meant nothing because he is able to so quickly analyze, infer, and adapt. We both know what the other will do, and we both know how to counter it. So it becomes a game of predicting the counter and … countering it.

Warlord takes this one step further, if you watch our duels you’ll notice him intentionally delaying his attacks and baiting out my interrupts. If you ever were curious how to play a or beat really good Lockdown build, look no further. Also.. this should squash those rumors of me being ungodly good at this game. x_x I’m really not.. Not yet at least.

(Shoutouts to C R I X U S, sizzap, dat necro, Evilgenius Giggles and the others! Will publicize these vids once I add notes and timestamps. Best viewed in HD!)

• Warlord of Chaos Archangel

• Warlord of Chaos Archangel 2- The Alliance

• Warlord of Chaos Archangel 3 – Dat Necro Tho

• Warlord of Chaos Archangel 4 – Rhythm vs Reaction