Guild Wars 2

And that’s a question I really want to highlight:

“Is what lockdown offers to a team worth the tradeoff?”

Do you feel losing iPersona and having shatters that aren’t as damaging for the trade off of interrupting stomps/heals, AoE Immobilizes? If not, what do you think is needed to push lockdown to shatter’s pedestal?

@Swish: It sounds like you’re saying shatter is easier to play while exaggerating the thought process that goes behind lockdown. Shatter is burst, that’s what it does, but one of the biggest between the two is the frequency and power of said bursts.

“Can I hit F1-3 and help myself and My Team right now? Yes? Do it. No? Don’t Do it. Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills! Interrupts do extra damage so make it count.”
What you described for shatter also goes for lockdown, but if you’re trying to achieve the same goal with both builds then yeah.. its gonna feel like lockdown is just an inferior version of shatter.

• Can I use an interrupt right now on that skill that that one guy is using even if its not my target? Is that guy close enough to get interrupted if i’m using my mantra? Does he have a clone close enough that is tied to him that can interrupt? Is there Stability up that i need to remove first? Am I about to be blinded or are they about to throw down cover boons and Stability? Is that skill a game breaker to interrupt or should i Save my interrupts for later in the fight?"*

That is a far too cerebral perspective for a fast-paced teamfight. After a quick stability check you pick a target (either someone squishy, transformed, or clustered near other opponents) and start doing your thing. You don’t worry about interrupting key skills unless the tell is obvious or you’re facing a 1v1.

@Valar: Thanks for sharing your perspective! While I respect it, there are a few things I disagree on. Lockdown, even without the extra distortion, has better defenses and is more survivable than shatter, which is exactly why Decoy isn’t as crucial in a 4/4/6 (20/20/30) Lockdown build. Yeah, there are times when a clutch Zer0Clone Distortion will save lives and get you out of rough situations, and for sure IPersona is probably one of the best Grandmasters in the entire game, however…

Assuming utilities of Blink/Portal/MoDistraction, I’d disagree that Interrupt Mesmers are over-reliant on MoDistraction to do meaningful damage. In fact, MoDistraction isn’t really a damage source in the first place. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent on Lockdown, but I’m going to assume you’re much more experienced with shatter. Like I said before shatter is easier to be effective with, but everything you do on shatter you do on Lockdown to a lesser effect with the tradeoff of being more effective in different situations. Stability/Aegis/Guardians in general are definitely a pain but a lot of the gripes you throw at Lockdown Mesmer can be mitigated with good play and positioning, same kittenter.

Again, I’m not saying that lockdown is superior. I’m saying it’s highly underrated and isn’t as heavily overshadowed by shatter as people think.

@witcher: I appreciate the elaboration. Yes, Lockdown does not have the burst of Shatter and has to use much more abilities in order to achieve similar damage however I do not agree that Shatter is that much more survivable. Interrupt Mesmer are more boon heavy, especially in regards to gaining Protection in addition to having more innate toughness and being harder to focus. The loss of Decoy and 0-clone shatters hurt for sure but I think what really is a deciding factor is the question of: Is what lockdown offers to a team worth the tradeoff?

@Ecanus: Wall of text? That was a Babylonian tower of text. o_O I’m going to respond to it in a different thread so as to not derail this one.

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you’re implying? I’d like to get an educated discussion going from as many different perspectives as possible.

While this is definitely condi-support (and very interesting) I wouldn’t exactly call this a bunker..

In fact, this looks more like a build that would not sit on a alone point very long and would be joining whatever teamfights are happening. I can see the stealth working for Mantra charges, but I don’t think you really need the torch. I’d recommend Pistol for the offhand to beef up your damage a bit. Decoy and mantra heals should be enough defense.

Definitely an interesting mix though, would like to see a video if possible?

DIFFERENT ROLES
Shatter Mesmer have one main purpose: Burst the hell out of anything and everything that is percieved as an enemy. There is a priority to this, of course, with other squishier power-based zerker targets (Guardians, Rangers, Elementalists, unaware Thieves, ect.) coming first and boon-heavy opponents next on the list. And… that’s about it.
Lockdown Mesmer, while still doing heavy damage, do not have the insane bursts like Shatter Mesmer and as a result, it can feel like lockdown is just an “inferior” version of shatter. Lockdown Mesmer’s strength lie in the ability to suppress a target to keep it from doing much of .. anything.

• Lockdown Mesmer can AoE interrupt Stomps/Rezzes from 1200 range.
• Lockdown Mesmer are very good at disabling Elites such as Lich Form, Plague Form, Tornado, ect.

So, yes, Lockdown Mesmer still focus on doing heavy damage but their role is expanded and their targets are slightly different (With necros and other aoe-oriented classes being a priority).
One of the bigger complaints about Lockdown is how single-target focused it is, as opposed to shatter’s AoE damage. This is a massive misconception, as Lockdown Mesmer actually have MORE AoE presence than Shatter Mesmer do. Sword+Focus / Staff (or Greatsword) provide a number of AoE-oriented control abilities. Sword’s iLeap, Focus’s Curtain & Warden, and the 2h weapons are self-explainatory; the difference is the benefits we gain from interrupting which consists of boons, conditions (dat immobilize/blind!), and damage. All shatters, with the exception of [F1]Mind Wrack (shatter) and [F3]Diversion (lockdown) are equally important in both builds.

BUT… CAN’T OTHER CLASSES DO IT BETTER?
No, not really. The closest competitors to Lockdown Mesmer tend to be Hambow warriors, who offer AoE damage and control as well as being tougher to kill. Hambows have 2 AoE and 1 single-target CC at melee distance. Lockdown Mesmer have atleast 4 AoE and 1 Single-target CC, all which can be done at range. Engineer offer CC through explody turrets and pushy guns, but again … tis not the same.

TL;DR If you wanna hop into PvP and be highly effective with an easy, clearly-defined role then Shatter is for you. Shatter Mesmer are a strong asset to any team and while difficult to play, can be incredibly rewarding and effective. Lockdown Mesmer take a more strategic, meticulous approach to battle. They are more durable than shatter Mesmer by far and can have a massive impact on a battle, but can struggle to be as effective as easily.

(Click Here to learn to play Shatter! otherwise Click Here to learn to play Lockdown!)

You know it’s odd.. I’ve only recently been asked the following question:

“Why do you play lockdown Mesmer over Shatter? Is it just for fun?”

I’ve been seeing this debate rise up more and more often as lockdown has gained popularity and as a result wanted to start a bit of discussion on the topic with the community we have here, because I found my answer to be much more complicated than I expected…

Shatter is currently seen as the best Mesmer build to use in PvP, and for good reason. Shatter Mesmer deal massive damage, have unparalleled boon stripping, and can very quickly turn the tide of battles with an organized team. Add portal to the mix and Mesmer allows for creative plays mixed in with high PBAoE burst damage (PBAoE = Point Blank AoE, an AoE that centers on a target, such as a shattering clone or Mantra ability) . This is something that very few other classes can excel at beyond Mesmer, Elementalist, and Thief (Who is more single-target focused).

SHATTER PROS

• Insane burst A three-clone-plus-Mesmer MindWrack is the stuff of nightmares.
• Unparalleled boonstripping Even moreso than lockdown Mesmer considering iPersona makes the Mesmer also count as a shatter.
• Utility via Portal Portal is love. Portal is life.

SHATTER CONS

• Squishy Without strong positioning and awareness, thou shall die.
• Trouble fighting on point Due to the gurella playstyle a shatter Mesmer employs, it is very hard to fight on point for prolonged periods of time.
• No condition removal Or no portal. Take your pick. Not as bad in organized teams that can handle cleansing for you.

So why play lockdown? Here’s my opinion.

Lockdown Mesmer are very different. Not only are they remnicient of GW1 Mesmer, lockdown builds are one of the more cerebral and strategic builds in GW2. Playing lockdown feels different from other Mesmer types. You CANNOT play Lockdown mesmer with a Shatter mesmer mentality, else it will feel ineffective, and you can’t simply pick-up-and-play the build like a PU Mesmer. You have to develop specific skills to play lockdown, you have to train your reflexes to spot interruptible skills and know when to spend those precious Mantra of Distraction charges. In my opinion, Lockdown is the most fun type of Mesmer once you learn how it works.

LOCKDOWN PROS

• Heavy damage Not quite as bursty, but properly combining interrupts with phantasms and shatters can net heavy damage.
• Boonstripping While Shatter Mesmer strip more boons, Lockdown Mesmer strips more strategically.
• AoE control Immobilizing Focus Pulls, Greatsword Pushes, Chaos Storms and Mantra charges, AoE Weaknesses/Vuln from clone deaths, and more
• Stomp/Rezz control If the enemy team does not have stab, odds are they aren’t stomping or rezzing with a lockdown Mes around.
• Solid defense So many boons and an extra 300 toughness definitely help a lockdown Mesmer fight on point

LOCKDOWN CONS

• Difficult to learn/be effective A lockdown Mesmer is much more difficult to make effective in a group play than shatter. All those above-mentioned pros need to be put into constant use.
• Not as bursty Uh.. not as bursty.
• No portal Or no condition removal.. Take your pick.

@Flufferz: I ran a 30/10/0/0/30 6/2/0/0/6 build a while ago, and it worked really well despite bring rather difficult to play.

It’s pretty demanding, and I’m so out of practice I can’t even play it effectively anymore, but it should still be in good shape. =/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvP-WvW-Lockdown-Shatter-Shatterlock/first

Fay.2357:

What taking clone deaths in a condie shatter build says to me is this:

“I accept that this build doesn’t actually perform effectively in the way I want it to perform. Therefor, I’m going to take some traits that actually work well to fill in the gaping holes that the basic functionality leaves.”

It’s a tacit admission of how non-functional pure condie shatter is. Yes, it’s better than before…but it’s still not good.

That’s one way to look at it, but I’m not going to look at Condi-shatter as if it’s supposed to be played like normal shatter. I think lockdown builds use shatters more similar to condi-shatter than power shatter.

Power relies on IP, MindWrack, and melee range for the most damage, whereas I think one of Condi-shatter’s strengths is that you don’t really ever need to be close to your opponent (unless using torch burn), and three of your shatters deal Torment damage rather than just Mind Wrack.

That being said, the cover conditions from Chaos V help make it harder to remove Torment, and the cripple from Dom V makes it easier to land shatters in the first place. I believe clone-deaths are still going to be important in ANY condi build, whether or not your shattering and helps to give Condi-shatter more of an AoE edge and more versatility in delivering damage.

I know for sure it won’t be hitting for nutty bursts like Power shatter, but maybe it doesn’t have to if it can compensate with heavy AoE pressure.

Curious about your guys take on the buffed MtD (Illusions XIII) trait?

@Pyroathiest: From our few duels last night, I get the feeling that the Maim build you were running could be really strong. As you said, you weren’t exactly playing it properly against me (adjusting to a new build does take time) and even still I had to really stay on my toes to avoid getting melted by conditions.

The Good
It’s deceptively damaging. I didn’t expect my HP to melt as fast as it does. I feel this could be really strong against other condi-weak classes such as Engineers.

It looks like to make the build work you have to be really tight on the timing, shattering hard after nailing Scepter Block, but 5 stacks of torment is rough to deal with when you HAVE to stay moving else risk being shattered on.

The Bad
Even as a Mesmer (low HP) and even with only one form of Condi removal (Null Field) I was able to avoid a large part of your damage through kiting and staying on my toes. While I admit in a hectic teamfight, one good shatter would’ve eaten me alive (assuming I had no one to cleanse) but I see what you mean about the actual DPS being dependent on your opponent. Too much confusion? Stealth. Torment? Cleanse or Blurred+Distortion.

I feel even with the buff the build would struggle against classes like Warrior/Ele/Necro/Guardian who have rapid cleanses. Granted, I don’t know how other condi mesmer (PU or otherwise) deal with that either.

Overall I feel like there is definite potential in the trait, and it actually seems Grandmaster-worthy now, but without knowing what makes most condi builds successful, I can only give my impressions on what it felt like to fight one.

Dondagora.9645:

Just an idea, but we could try a mesmer take-over of the Silverwastes and a guild event. It’s kinda like WvW, but we all don’t have to be in the same server and it is also more accepting of those who don’t necessarily PvP.

Just food for thought.

Uh so.. What’s the Silverwastes? o_O

I’m down for this weekend if anyone else is. I should be on sometime tonight around 10pm EST (US) and the following nights.
If we could put together a US and EU team for guild events that’d be awesome. I’ll send some messages out when I hop on.

One thing I’ve noticed about 4/4/6 is that despite the meaty burst, it’s pretty heavy on condition damage. Granted, most of the conditions are control-condis (Chill, Blind, Immob, Weakness, ect.) but I’m thinking this may be a nice boost for something like Pistol.

@Frifox: Would you happen to know a % of how much power damage you lose going from Zerk to Sinister? Its mostly the ferocity loss that scares me.

+Condition Damage/ Power / Precision

… We in there!

Gonna give 2/4/2/0/6 a run. Them clonedeaths!

I feel like the one thing you can’t punish is auto attack spam.

I’d really love a buff that would allow power block to work on auto attacks again. If not, lets go with the next best thing… 5s weakness on interrupt. Or steal boons on interrupt (which should really go to a rework of furious interruption)

or better yet.. Power block allows you to see enemy cast bars. Huzzah!

or lets get trolly.. Power block reverses your movement controls/skill bar for 4 seconds on interrupt (10s ICD)

UPDATED 11/3/14

• Added Terrorsquad’s Phase Retreat Guide (under staff & PvP sections)
• Updated notes on iLeap and Mimic
• Updated Mantras & iElasticity

Rude! I was only off by a trait and runes.

And how about sharing some composition ideas chief!?

The only reason for that is cuz fools like myself keep bumping this nonsense. -_- You won’t even CONSIDER the detailed and thoughtful posts and reasons people give you as to why shatter Mesmer is fine. You simply choose to ignore people and spit biased and untrue “facts” to support your claim.

The only reason I can think that this thread hasn’t been moved/locked is because the mods are ungodly amused right now by how silly this all is… Or they’re doing a case study on experienced players opinions versus inexperienced.

You’re not here for an intelligent discussion because you’ve done nothing but ignore the most intelligent rebukes to your silly claims.

I really appreciate the suggestions, I’ll be doing some experiments and posting my findings. I specifically wanna talk about the Bunker Guardian thing, but before I do I want to make sure I have my facts straight on what a bunker guard and bring and what a bunker Mes can bring.

MSFone.3026:

Not a complaint more than just a comment: I think it says something that what many people consider to be the only “real” PvP build is shatter…

I think that most people are parroting what drips down from high-level players, and I don’t mean that in a bad way.

I know that I personally cannot say with 100% certainty that shatter is the best, because I have never had the chance to test it in all formats. And by the best I mean: Works the most effectively different team comps.

And that makes me wonder a few other things: Can Mesmers really only play one role? (I highly doubt it) How many different team comps have been attempted? Who was doing the testing at the time and how long did they spend learning the ins and outs of other builds?

To quote supcutie (who’s come to be like a mentor to me) from a while ago..

Supcutie.2538:

The short of it skcamow, is that between Helseth and I, we have tried what we and many believe to be every possible variation that we thought could be viable.

PU Shatter, PU condi, regular shatter, confounding shatter, mantra shatter, phantasm, gs/staff gs/s-f gs/s-t, gs/staff, lockdown, clone death, signets, bunker/bruiser, others I can’t think of off the top of my head.
We basically tried them all in high end team play and we talked about it back and forth. I’ve compared numbers/ideas/theorycrafting between team mates and many players I trust and respect. Mesmers just simply aren’t a good choice, when you can be replaced by a Thief if you don’t have one (or play Warrior, Ranger, Guardian – the sPvP Holy Trinity.)

I still believe that you can be on a winning team with a Mesmer (relating to what Helseth said about how the competition is bad enough that the shortfalls of Mesmer haven’t become as apparent as they should be), but it’s a handicap that you don’t need and often means not getting first place when instead you can pick a different class to avoid losing.

It’s important to note that Mesmer isn’t underpowered, but rather overshadowed by Thief. Same problem with Ele – overshadowed by Thief.

The idea that the community isn’t innovative has been thrown around and that the lack of innovation is the cause of Mesmers being not viable. But I can assure you, my team has tried to accommodate me, and I have kept an extremely open mind about potential builds and Mesmer roles, doubly confirmed by Helseth (who has specifically tried for an extended period to make Mesmer work in higher end team play after myself and the rest of us kind of abandoned) and a few other Mesmers that I think can adequately come to those conclusions. Helseth knows that Mesmer isn’t ideal, but that’s what he wants to play and he has been able to convince his team mates to let him continue trying.

Hopefully the March patch brings some new wind into the sails of Mesmers, because currently if you want an absolute tier 1 team composition, core requirements don’t include Mesmer.

I don’t mean to get off-topic from the original post, but I think you could argue this is somewhat related to motivation.

If you want to play Mesmer currently, play it in hot joins and solo queue, but don’t expect to be able to win everything.
If you want to win in team queue, learn Ranger, Warrior, Thief, or Guardian.

Supcutie.2538:

I think at the least I spent a whole day on each really trying, and most multiple days of team queuing. Which might seem short but I think I was able to play them to prob 80-90% efficiency based on videos I had watched, knowledge I had about other people playing the spec, with the help of my team mates, general understanding of mechanics, and what things I can do integrating my own experiences and ideas.

Most promise: Shatter with S/T, Shatter with Staff/GS, Shatter with Confounding Suggestions and 20 inspiration w/ heal mantra, Phantasm can work if you’re not focusing on team fights, but it can get overwhelmed easily.

Basically all the others fell short in some way like not enough damage, not enough disengage, not enough ranged damage, not enough efficiency.
You need enough damage to be a threat, but you need enough survivability to keep going. This really only leaves a few actual good candidates.

Now this was BEFORE Thieves got nerfed and Mesmers saw improvements. Even then there was potential build diversity for us (despite being overshadowed) I feel like most of the current opinions of shatter dominating every other spec comes from a tradition of us being dominated by Thieves (which, while still a problem, doesn’t mean we only have ONE build to go with).

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

witcher.3197:

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

Lockdown is counter play while shatter is full offense,lockdown is more tanky than shatter,and lockdown uses passive phntasms use while shatter use for insta burst+shatter. So yeah they both the same lol.

If you are talking aout the 4/4/6 lockdown: same weapons, same amulet, only 1 utility that’s different, and most of the traits are the same too. Plus you do use your shatter skills. Not saying it’s the same, just very similar still less effective than shatter.

Same weapons same amulet only one different utility.. There’s a lot of builds that sound like that. And Shatter can run any weaponset comfortably besides scepter, same for lockdown (er.. besides torch).

When you played lockdown, how long did you play it for and did you play it coming off of a shatter build? Because if so, then I can see why you’d feel that way.

Shatter and Lockdown do not play with the same goals or mindset. If you were trying to play it like shatter, and expecting the same results kittenter.. well, there’s the problem.

@OP: Shatter is “mandatory” for Mesmer only at the highest levels of competitive play. It does work very well, but it is not the only build you can be successful with. My two favorite builds, thath ave worked well and are surprisingly strong, are the 4/4/6 CI lockdown and the 0/4/6/4/0 Boonshare

I was actually gonna try a super tanky Arcane Thievery/Mimic/Signet of Inspiration + Pack Runes + BI.

Something wild like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpNt9pxANcrNysxY6OuYlT2SMlMgkB-TZhFwAAOBAMeEAULDMb/hEHBAA

I don’t know what purpose it’d serve, but I wanted to see the utmost booniest Mesmer I could make.

Added links to most the builds, will finish shortly.

@Benjamin: That is very interesting, and I’m more than willing to try that out. Out of curiosity, why the Phantasm Mesmer?

@Tealots: I do use CI in the boonshare build, I still feel like CI is the best trait to pair with Sword/Focus + Staff because of how well it synergizes with the phantasms (and, of course, control is another form of support). 2x Boonshare / 1x Lockdown / 2x Shatter is an interesting idea and worth a shot.

And like Pyro says… yeah for that you may as well run full Phantasm. PU/Phant will get ignored by most who come for the treb, like Warriors.

@Pyro: what comp ideas do you have?

Reserved to list others’ ideas —-

Sup guys!

So we’re doing this 5-man Mesmer team weekly now, and I was wondering if anyone had some ideas on some good compositions. Obviously there is no one perfect team to deal with every situation, so having a few backup strategies is always good. Some ideas for successful tpvp builds:

- Power Shatter Mesmer (Instant heavy AoE bursts and boonstrips / Single-target interrupts)

- CI Lockdown Mesmer (AoE Bursts & Boonstrips / Single-Target shutdown / AoE Interrupts)

- PU Condition Mesmer (Far-Point Assault / Semi-Bunker)

- Boonshare Mesmer ( Projectile Reflects / Boon Support / Semi-Bunker)

- Mantra Heal/Support Mesmer ( Low Damage / Rapid AoE Heals / Condition Cleanses / Bunker )

Thus, I charge thee! What is your most ideal 5-person Mesmer team (for PvP) and why?

Some ideas I’m thinking (all off the top of the dome without too much thought):

• 2x Shatter Mesmer, 2x Mantra Support Mesmer, 1x Lockdown
  With the Lockdown Mesmer roaming, a Mantra Mesmers entrenched on home/mid with a shatter supporting, I’m thinking this could make an ideal setup for being able to hold two points or aggressively assault a point if needed

• 2x Mantra Support Mesmer, 2x PU Condition Mesmer, 1xShatter Mesmer
  Defend and troll. Never leave those two points.

• 2x Boonshare Mesmer / 3x Shatter Mesmer
  Boonshare can do some pretty decent damage, as well as providing plenty of support and cover. Combined with the hyper-aggressive shatter Mesmer, I could see some heavy point-sweeps depending on the opponent setup.

Hehe I wish. (annd its Xbox ONE thank you =P) Suffered a death in the family two weekends ago and only recently we’ve been getting over it.

Double ranged lockdown seems an interesting concept, especially for WvW. I feel like the points in Illusions should go to Domination but.. Staff/GS is literally the BEST setup to make use of elasticity.

Also, I’ve recently been replacing null field with disenchanter and… I’m not enjoying it. I keep bouncing back and forth on my feelings for disenchanter but recently its been brutal since I can’t rely on it for on-demand Condi removal (maybe its bad luck but its been getting dodged/blocked a lot) I tried arcane thief for a bit but the Condi removal is too weak and… Blinds. -_-

So far null field has been the way to go.

Uh.. would you happen to be on US or EU? I think this is gonna take a more-personal touch. (which is what she said. nyuk nyukk)

..Wat!?!

Edit: I don’t think so dude. None of the other classes got their buffs either, this last patch was just a bunch of bug fixes

@Tealots: I’ve been on here and there, usually around 10pm-12am EST, but I have a habit of ghosting a lot. These past few weeks have been rough IRL so I’ve been lone-wolfing it and just playing anonymously to take my mind off things.

I think the problem is in the runes/sigils throwing in a Sigil of Fire or Air and switching to more power-based runes could be a big help. With your goal being ranged, Grenth runes are only going to be situationally useful. Also, you’re gonna wanna take the iElasticity over illusionary invig.

I was gonna try a ranged gs+staff 4/4/6 CI build, then tweak it to 0/4/6/0/4 and see how I feel. I still have a couple other builds I wanna try out first though.

Unnecessary pessimism aside, I believe it’s supposed to be in November.

Though I haven’t heard of any buff besides Maim being 2x torment per shatter rather than one.

Also, your gear in PvE doesn’t carry over to PvP, just the skins. World vs World, on the other hand, definitely uses your PvE gear.

For abilities, I keymapped my 6-0 to my shift keys. Shift+1, Shift+2, Shift+3, Shift+4, and Shift+5. Makes things worlds easier!

This is like octobers steamiest Mesmer thread. Good points on both sides here.

Short answer: Yes to most of those, no to everything. Feel free to shoot me a PM and we can theorycraft some ideas.

Guys, it’s jihm again.

Just.. Just do yourself a favor and check his posting history.

On topic: Moa is fine. It can be blocked/blinded/evaded/interrupted and rendered completely useless. Most of the time its only newer players or trolls who use Moa for 1v1s when it’s much more useful for unbalancing teamfights.

Complaining you got Moa’d is like complaining a Necro went Lich Form on you.. except Lich is more likely to kill you. =/

Phoenix.5047:

I’ve been running with a variant of the “Chillruption” build posted here some time ago by someone, and I make heavy use of scepter+torch, mainly Confusion and Torment.
It’s worth mentioning that these two conditions act as a sort of “soft” lockdown, punishing your opponents for kiting or using skills(complimented by Torch5’s Retal), or forcing them to remain static for some time until they can deal with those conditions, all the while allowing your other lockdown skills time to go off cooldown.

Which reminds me, we need more Chillruption vids, skcamow!

Tealots.6095:

Any tips on how to really make GS really meld with a CI build? I tried playing around with the build below for a little bit. Thinking maybe I’ll try double-ranged shatter “style” with CI for control. It was fun, but I’m sure I could be doing something else with that. I found that this one could handle engineers pretty well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRlknpGtFqxMNcrNytxY6Ne4CU20UlMggB-TZxFwAJeAAo2fAwRAAxlAQaZAA

The traits/utilities look good (though I’d recommend Phantasmal Fury) but I’m not certain about the sigils. I feel double-ranged really meshes well with a Fire/Air combo -even at the expense of energy- and would probably go Fire/Air on GS and Hydro/Energy on staff. Other than that I was tempted to try something very similar to this last night, unfortunately I didn’t have the chance to hop on. =/

Dondagora.9645:

I had a thought, and wonder if this might work: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8al0npGttqxUNUrNyqxcqlQ9VrNWpHJ7AA-TZBCwAAOIAYuAAiLDc5JAoc/BA

Basically a lockdown build not meant to win 1v1s, but rather influence team fights with mass-lockdowns, such as Chaos Storm, Imbued Diversion, Magic Bullet, Mantra of Distraction, and Dazzling Glamours. Something like pushing out these at a steady pace from outside of the skirmish to wither the enemy team down. Unsure about whether to use scepter or sword. Scepter allows creating clones from a safe distance away, but sword has that AoE immob. Well, any opinion on this style of lockdown as opposed to the more up-front style?

This is rather tricky. I really feel imbued can work in a teamfight lockdown build but I have rarely experimented with it (though skcamow has). I know you need imbued, and DE, but I’m wondering if you’re better off dropping 20 in Chaos or Domination, both of which can give you rewards for interrupts/lockdown. Domination would allow your AoE Diversions to stack Vuln and strip boons, the latter which is very valuable for a lockdown Mes and one of the key reasons for bringing one.

Chaos, however, gives you Bleed/Vuln/Weakness-on-clone-death and rewards you with boons per interrupt. I think Domination is more useful team-wise, but for personal damage/survivability Chaos may be better. Interesting concept nonetheless, let me know how it goes if you explore it further. (In my experience, seems like the type of build that will fill terrible until you grow into it. =P Many lockdown builds are.)

Eff that. Timewarp should be a Manipulation or Glamour.

How do you nerf it by 50% and yet retain the cast time?!

Show off them thighs before Wintersday hits gurl

Oh, nice sword too =P

For a bunker, I’d actually suggest something more along the lines of this.

The first thing that stands out to me is that your build has a massive weakness to condition damage, and thus can only defend against power builds. I chose Mender’s Purity with the heal mantra to alleviate that. It may not grant as much heal overtime as the Signet, but it’ll cleanse conditions well and …

Restorative Mantras is crucial for a defensive-focused Mesmer. Restorative + MoPain will make you extremely hard to kill, and keep your Phantasms alive longer. That being said, you definitely wanna put those last 2 points into Inspiration. Adding a layer of reflection to your build will help considerably against rangers/engineers.

Also, I picked sword/focus for a couple reasons: Focus allows you to pull enemies off-point and warden nullifies projectiles, and Blurred Frenzy is one of our best defenses hands down; the scepter’s block doesn’t even come close.

With this build you won’t be doing much damage, relying mostly on sword, Phantasms, and Retaliation to harm people but you’ll have enough defenses against power/conditions/ranged/melee to be able to make for a solid bunker-support.

Daishi just went in.

OP.. What does it tell you that not a single person in this thread agreed with you?

Are we all just crazy? It’s us, right? Not you…

Its mostly a matter of personal preference. Some people enjoy shatter more while others enjoy lockdown.

Both work in tpvp, but shatter has been around longer and is more proven.

And the instant-ranged damage it does isn’t too shabby too. =P

Elementalist – Glyph of elementals – able to control ability of elementals. It had 3.25s charge time and was hard to use. Now we made them into instant skills.

- Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2jjk8h/ready_up_pvp_balance_and_class_balance_otes/

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/579089268

Woo!

And you digivolve into Super Scumbaggio if you add Moa Morph.

BlackDevil.9268:

Mogar.9216:

I have been running 6/6/0/2/0 for max damage with mantra of pain, mantra of distraction and halting strike. It’s insanely fun because your burst damage is crazy .

GS zerker
Mantra of distraction
Mantra of pain
GS3
Distract again
GS2
Shatter

That chain lands in 3 seconds or so and it does crazy amount of damage with a lucky crite or 2 you can kill pretty much any glass build. It really catches people off guard oftern they don’t have time to put to any defence before it’s too late.

Impossible, mantra of distraction has a 5 second cooldown.

Yeah, and the chain would have more damage if it looked more like ..

Gs Zerker + MoDistraction + Pain (The instants should be cast at the same time as the zerker)

Illusionary Wave

Mirror Blade (GS2) + Mind Spike (GS3) + Mind Wrack (F1) or Diversion (F3)

GS1 + MoDistraction

/dance

Lockdown Mesmer can be tricky to learn, but certainly works well in PvP.

Check this thread for details.

Schattenlied.4873:

Interesting, I prefer to do the opposite most of the time. :P Playing agressivly forces the thief to use his cooldowns, so I may land an interrupt when he´s got nothing left. This could of course be build-specific, since mantra lockdown is strongest at the beginning of a fight.

Regarding your second point, I try to have as few illusions out as possible when fighting x/d thiefs to avoid easy targets for Cloak´n´Dagger. If I have phantasms out, I separate enough that they won´t get hit by cleaving attacks/sigil procs on me. The thief could kill the phantasms or damage me, but not both with the same attack.

What do you think, bad habits or just another approach that could work under the right circumstances? ^^

It’s hard to say. Playing aggressively can work, depending on the type of opponent, but I’ve always found it better to save skills specifically for when they stealth (C-storm, chaos armor, dodges, illusionary wave, prestige, blurred frenzy, ect. depending on the weaponset)

Since their stealth duration is so predictable, it feels easier to force them onto the defensive by attacking riight as their stealth is about to expire.

As for illusions being out, I do think it’s better to have them than not to have them. Clutch distortions and heavy mind-wrack shatters can instantly turn the tide against a glassy thief. Staying close to them in a cluster, in my opinion, is even better (granted this is more for the assumption you have clones out rather than phantasms) If I’m not mistaken CnD doesn’t cleave, so they still have to choose either you or your illusions

Thanks for the replies guys! Here’s the build

@Torqiseknite Appreciate the tips! A couple things I here I wanted to explain, and hopefully my logic is correct:

it seemed that you blew through your utilities very quickly during the first fight – you used your blast finishers on a well-positioned water field, but then you popped Cleansing Fire and Arcane Shield when you didn’t really need to. Your Unsteady Ground was still up if you had to move out of the fight to heal (you didn’t) and you weren’t really in danger from conditions at that point.

You’re right about me wasting Cleansing Fire and Arcane Shield in the beginning, I play Mesmer 90% of the time, and as a result sometimes I reflexively hit skills that I would’ve used on my Mes.
As for Arcane Brilliance, I often use it for the blast if I see an ally who needs the boost since a quick swap to water attunement and EA Water dodge can usually compensate when my heal (which recharges pretty quickly) is on cooldown.

On a side note, your build seems pretty focused on field blasting, so you might want to consider running Blasting Staff over the Arcana trait. I’ve found that the larger radius is very helpful when healing or stacking might/swiftness in groups, especially since everyone will be moving around in fights and might not remain inside the field.

It is, but I like the smaller radius for a couple reasons (namely Meteor Shower hitting more and Static Field trapping better) but more importantly, I run 3 arcane skills. It’s a hard choice, but I’d rather cooldown the majority.

@FrownyClown: Frowny! You and KFC are like my elemental heroes. This build actually came about from advice I received from y’all.

As for positioning, that’s actually a pretty big problem I have with this build. Being support (and rather tanky) I want to be near my allies as much as possible for Elemental Attunement’s AoE boons and Evasive Arcana’s water heals and Earth blasts. Also, when I begin stacking might I usually wanna be in proximity of my allies. I know it’s a dangerous spot to be in, but I’m actually pretty durable and often can’t be killed unless focused down.

I feel as if I lose out on my potential support when fighting from ranged, yet I feel in a dangerous position striking out in melee. Thoughts?

Aluren.1896:

Also Chaos Archangel, I loved seeing the moa representation regardless of how you think you did with it!

Oh and the build you posted…maybe I’m a little confused but it says it is a CI build but there is no CI?

Aw hell. Epic fail. x_x

Fixed! And ty! Everytime I casted Moa I facepalmed.

Well, these crickets have been keeping me company for months.. I think it’s time to attempt a bump. =P

Anyone out there? Any advice? Help!