Guild Wars 2

Oh wow awesome! Thanks Pureblade.

Now here’s the thing.. did you notice how the Mesmer AND the clone got Aegis/Prot? I’m having a really hard time telling if that other thing that got the boon is actually a clone or not, since it doesn’t look like the Mesmer. There’s two “clones” running around in that clip but they look odd to me, did you notice?’

Edit: I didn’t notice before, but that mystery ability appears, shines, creates an expanding dome of some sort, and fades. The first thing that comes to mind is a sort of projectile reflect/negation ala Feedback/Shield of Absorption but it seems to fade away too quickly for that. Second guess: a push/knockdown/knock-up of some sort. Or maybe “Chronomancer” really will have shatterable AoE fields.

If you want a blackish purple, midnight violet is the way to go

There’s a lot of good stuff here. Really appreciating the feedback!

I know I’m all late, but I thought I might be able to help a bit.

You can spot a lockdown Mesmer by checking their icons. Mantra of Distraction is staple to lockdown Mesmer, and you’ll see the two charges on their bar. These are your biggest threat, as they are instant and unavoidable.. But there are only two every 30s. Conserve skills until you notice the Mesmer has blown their two mantra charges and every other interrupt we have (generally 5 interrupts) is more telegraphed and easier to deal with.

I say that like its easy but.. Its really not. x.x

Sup guys,

An idea for a little psychological experiment hit me and I’m hoping my-other-favorite-forum-thats-not-the-mesmer-forum-even-though-I-don’t-play-this-class-but-you-guys-are-so-cool could help out!

What I’m looking to find is what its like fighting against a Mesmer (Shatter, Lockdown, and/or Condi) as a Necro? I have a few questions going forward:

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?

• Strategies and tactics?

• Which type of Necro build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

• What Necro skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?

Along with anything else you’d like to add. My plan is to make a thread in the Mes forums detailing and explaining how fighting us feels for other classes. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Figured I might add my own perspective when facing Necros. I run a 4/4/6 Lockdown Mesmer, and as a result Necros are some of my easiest targets. All necro weapons besides staff are easily interruptible so I’m pretty used to landing immob after immob while keeping my opponent dazed and ruining their projectiles with my spinning Phantasmal Warden.

Lockdown Mesmer are a liches worst nightmare, and if I have at least 2 of my 5 dazed and a shatter on hand, best believe I’m stripping your stab and turning you into a big CC’d punching bag with some fabulous ethereal abdominals. I have no Liches do, I just see them raise their hands and everything dies, but to a competent lockdown Mes it doesn’t matter much, the lich is the most interruptible thing in the game.

Power Necros, if they catch me off guard, can screw me pretty badly, but it is pretty rare to face a good power necro that can handle being interrupted and bursted. In fact, though I run no condition removal I only find Condi necros a threat if I don’t see them before I get Spited.

My team and I prepare an epic portal play…

When the time came, in my hype I double-pressed portal, stacking the entrance and exit ontop of each other. Sogud.

Just to give a heads up.. major update coming soon!

Good stuff. Is there a link to where it’ll be streamed?

Anet gave us the Mesmer class in the first place. Favorite class of any game ever.

The new traits will offer diversity, will it shift the meta? That remains to be seen but I’m pretty sure there will be some rebalancing of existing stuff as well. People are going to get hype, they’re going to let imaginations run wild.. That’s kind of the point! Its almost like a guessing game, to see which wild ideas actually make it and which don’t.

They’ve made plenty of balancing mistakes, a few of those they learned from, but this thread makes it seem like the devs do nothing but fail time and again and that is really unfair considering we’re all still playing and enjoying this game for a reason.

Whatever happened in the past, the bottom line is that this expansion will bring new creative opportunities for the class. That’s something to be hype for, rather than looking at the expansion and going ‘well.. Its anet.. Why are all these people so excited? Let me lower their expectations…’

Give a 4/4/6 (II, VII / II, X / V, VIII, XI) lockdown mesmer a shot and see how you feel. Zerk amulet, sigils fire/energy runes of the pack/hoelbrak/lyssa with Blink/Mantra of Distraction.

It’s not easy, and it doesn’t play like shatter, but there’s a lot to learn and it’s madly fun/satisfying.

I live in the hood, of course I have some to spare, but they’re not legal in most states. =P

Anyways, the clips are only barely a second, but you can see Chaos Armor definitely has a new animation, and the Guardian himself didn’t receive protection (assuming that’s a Guard and not a War/Revenant).

The last bit is definitely not a portal, if you maximize the screen at 1080p, there is a fading purple glyph/sigil on the ground like nothing in the game so far. It has the “dots” of a clock around it’s edges, which makes me thing it’s another time-based ability. All glyph-related magic abilities in the game are color-coded: Guardian Blue, Necro Green, Mesmer Purple, ect. That’s definitely somethign new to us.

As for the time bomb, the dying critters go through two separate animations -one falling straight down and one collapsing onto it’s side- there’s nothing saying there that it’s not a knockdown (use temp curtain on a devourer and see the same knockdown animation)

((Check out Pureblade’s Reply for Pictures ))

I don’t want to go into speculation as to how Specializations will work with so little information, though I do have several theories. One thing I did notice, though, was that the new clock skill was not the only changes shown for Mesmer. A lot of these things were only shown in a fraction of a second, and I only happened to notice them because I was looking for the Druid Ranger displayed (which was ungodly obvious and I really didn’t need to try so hard x_x)

What I will presume is that this new specialization will NOT be damage-focused. Anet knows Mesmers strength right now is heavy damage via illusions and shattering and have been slowly pushing Lockdown/Support in different ways, the Chronomancer concept does seem plausable seeing as we already have some time manipulation skills. The Mesmer is essential a time/space mage, with Illusions, vortexes, and teleports making up our “space” aspect.

Temporal Curtain
Time Warp
Distortion

I’d figure it’s a good bet that this specialization will be sacrificing damage for more support/control.

- 1:29 New Shield Ability OR New (Glamour?) Utility; AoE CC persistent field: While many are thinking that this ability came off the shield, it could very well simply be a new utility skill or even reworked class mechanic judging by the way it “shatters” at the end. There are a couple things worth noting here:

• The skill has a cast/channel time, the Mesmer begins by glowing all fabulously at 1:27 for about 1.5s before casting it. If you notice the editing, it seems the field persists for a bit until both hands of the clock meets. The initial effect is a slowing field, followed by damage and potential knockdown (some of the same type of enemy died differently from others in the field, perhaps they didn’t die at all but were knocked down). Judging by mesmer mechanics, it’ll likely be a ground-targetted AoE and likely Ethereal combo field.

- 2:20 Chaos Armor Rework? (Reduced Cooldown? Chaos Armor now grants Aegis to Mesmer and illusions?): Currently Chaos Armor’s animation is pretty straightforward. You push the button, a bubble appears, you profit. However if you watch the video really closely during the “New Competitive Gamemode” snip at 1:20 you can see either Chaos Armor or a new skill[/url] being used. The animation is different here, with there being a slight shimmer of light before the bubble appears. It’s also worth noting that the Mesmer and … something else also get Aegis the moment Chaos Armor is popped. While one could argue that the Aegis came from the Chaos Storm nearby, notice that the Mesmer isn’t actually standing IN the storm when they get Aegis. It is possible that, being at the very edge of the storm, the very tip gave Aegis to the Mesmer and her.. clone? Illusion? What is that?

One thing to keep in mind here is that Chaos Storm doesn’t give the same boons to everyone standing in the storm at once. It’s rather rare for both Mesmer and illusion to receive Aegis at the same time, so I’m guessing/hoping..

Reduced Cooldown by 5s. Chaos Armor now grants Aegis to Mesmer and illusions.*

- 2:24 Mysterious New Utility/Mantra/Shield Ability?: What if our specialization removed Phantasms/Clones and instead had fields for us to shatter? Either way, I spotted a new ability being used here. At first I thought it was the clock skill again, but I went back and checked and the effects are different. The clock has a darker purple and Mantra of Pain-like indigo swirls. This new skill does look time-based, but the colors are much brighter and the animation is slightly different. New Mantra perhaps?

What do you guys think? Anyone spot anything else?

Unfortunately, unless you’re going for a new build alltogether, I don’t think adding hybridized stats (power/precision) will help out much.

For PvP, PvE or WvW?

Chaos: I’m so hype for that shield! I didn’t really see the knockdown effect, but I’m hoping for one.

Pyro: Something to be interested about, shield is obviously an offhand weapon. What does every offhand?

Chaos: Uh.. two skills?

Tealot: A hand on it?

Pyro: One of which is?

Chaos: The field.. and the other..

Chaos: A PHANTASM! /hypetrainexplodes!

Pyro: And something to consider, the time spell may not have even been from the shield.

SHIELD PHANTASM!
So lets see.. Our phantasms tend to copy skills from other classes, and a phantasm with a shield would take from..

Guardian
Engineer
Warrior

I’m thinking it’d likely be Guard’s Shield of Absorption if anything.

But you also have to consider that we already have a phantasm with a shield in the iDefender. What if our shield phantasm doesn’t actually use a shield at all? What if it goes the way of the Focus, with a phantasm wielding weapons completely unrelated to the shield?

Phantasmal Earthshakering Hammer Phant?
Phantasmal Empower Staff Phant?

Then again, iMage and iWarlock both wield scepters, so two Phants wielding the same weapon isn’t out of the real of possibility. What skills would you want to see from a new phantasm?

Simonoly.4352:

Looks like it’s either going to be an AoE cripple or chill (or a new slowing effect) followed by a knock-down + damage at the end of the channel. It also looks like it’s being sort of ‘shattered’ at the end there which makes me think it might actually be a two part skill like Into the Void.

I think that might be the case, but the thing is.. my two guesses are:

• It is a channeled ability, similar to Ele’s Churning Earth. At the beginning of the AoE field it definitely slowed the mobs, and then it looks as if it creates a persistent field, similar to Chaos Storm or Temporal Curtain, which either has a pulling effect or continues to cripple/slow (Ethereal field maybe?) at the end of the channel, it explodes for damage. It’s hard to tell if the creatures were knocked down or killed by the move ( 1:30 )

• It’s a two-part ability like Illusionary Leap and Temporal Curtain, laying down a persistent slowing/damaging field that you can shatter for damage. If I let my imagination roam, I’d say this could be a BLAST finisher. If I reaalllyy let it roam, that shatter effect may actually be linked to our actual shatters? doing power damage on [F1], Confusion [F2] AoE Daze [F3] and AoE Distort [F4]? Duration likely wouldn’t be linked to how many clones we have and would likely be treated as if a 1 clone shatter.

Ah.. dreams.

Oh man I take it back, and totally forgot.. Condi builds wreeckk much easier. The ultimate dueling build is still PU Condi but in duels its often considered unfair.

Quadox.7834:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Quadox.7834:

In short: Shatter more reliable most of the time while CI is an opportunist, it can shine but it can also really fail. Shatter builds have low cooldowns on shatters and clone skills (decoy). This means that they can kite and survive more reliably.

That.. is not at all the short of… anything, dude. o_O

Shatter builds do not survive more reliably than CI at all. Theres no arguing that CI is significantly more survivable even with shatter having 4 second CD on decoy and a more frequent Distortion. CI doesn’t need to pop distortion nearly as often since it isn’t as squishy.

Both Shatter AND CI are opportunistic, but in different ways. Shatter has a more reliable BURST, yes, but the damage distance between the two isn’t that far apart. CI has more reliable, more frequent CC.

Again, I’m not saying CI is better but your facts don’t point out Shatter’s “clear” superiority.

Toughness will matter somewhat, but not nearly as much as distort CD does. Also, CI has NO decoy at all (not just 4sec shorter cooldown). That is, unless you aren’t running portal / IoL and if you are in fact running decoy AND daze mantra on CI, then why not just run daze mantra and decoy on shatter? Point is, there is nothing that gives CI more frequent CC unless you are giving up distortion.

Edit: nowhere did i outright say that shatter is “clearly superior”. Imo shatter is more reliable, CI more opportunistic but possibly with greater reward (when things go right).

That is a good point, and definitely worth considering.

Part of what gives CI more frequent CC is the play style in itself, and the more flexible weapon options. CI requires interrupts to work properly, so techniques like chain-dazing become more important, focus becomes more valuable, Chaos Storm becomes far more deadly.

But like I said, I just don’t see a clear winner here and thats why I have a hard time figuring why shatter is more viable.

Narkodx.1472:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

CI is more survivable because of:

30 Chaos – Boon Duration & 300 toughness. This makes a difference, and synergizes with the entire tree. The boon duration extends the boons from Staff/Chaos Armor/Interrupts (usually from 3s to 4s).

Debilitating Dissipation – AoE weakness is nothing to sleep on.

Much higher access to protection Via interrupts and Illusionary Membrane (Chaos Minor)

Interrupts! Interrupts!

Yeah I know…

I do not think it is as significant as good positioning

AoE weakness gets cleansed so fast it is negligible – Ele/Shout War

3/4s of Protection… yeah I don’t think it’s going to save you from a Thief or 300 toughness

It is all really minor to me doesn’t make much of a difference the best way for a Mesmer to survive is to have good positioning and good usage of decoy/blink/f4 which shatter build helps with

It’s all preference in the end – which is why anyone would even use a Mesmer right now – There is no question there are way easier/effective classes to use right now

I didn’t say 4s of protection per fight I said far more frequent access to protection, both via prot-on-regen and via interrupts. And good positioning isn’t build-exclusive.

AoE weakness may get cleansed but is a CONSTANT application, granted more significant in smaller fights and adds not only as a cover condition but a damage boost for warlock.

Now separately its all minor, but it all adds up to make a noticeably harder to kill Mesmer. Its also worth noting that interrupts in themselves can very easily be a form of defense, ESPECIALLY versus thieves. Losing decoy(or blink) for mantra isn’t exactly entirely losing a form of defense.

CI is more survivable because of:

30 Chaos – Boon Duration & 300 toughness. This makes a difference, and synergizes with the entire tree. The boon duration extends the boons from Staff/Chaos Armor/Interrupts (usually from 3s to 4s).

Debilitating Dissipation – AoE weakness is nothing to sleep on.

Much higher access to protection Via interrupts and Illusionary Membrane (Chaos Minor)

Interrupts! Interrupts!

Nothing is wasted in the chaos line, only the last minor is less useful than the rest, but condition damage is a factor in a CI build. The problem is that a lot of peoples opinions of CI builds come from assumption or hearsay rather than personal experience.

CI doesn’t need a buff beyond removing the frivolous cripple on interrupt. Its already very strong.

Narkodx.1472:

Believe it or not when I play Warr/Ele Celestial I can literally ignore mesmers for 5-10 seconds the damage is pathetic these days or sustain is OP whatever you want to say

Shatter is not “slightly” more damage it was WAY more damage – not even close

If the damage was not even close, you weren’t playing good CI Mesmer.

… Unfortunately good CI Mesmer are actually rather rare. A bad/average shatter Mesmer can still land a decent burst. A bad/average CI Mesmer.. can’t, really.

Narkodx.1472:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Quadox.7834:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

If I’m not mistaken, Helseth, Misha, and Supcutie no longer play Mesmer competitively. Not sure about Zeromis.

You are mistaken

I’d like to catch some footage in that case. What was the last tourney they were playing Mes in?

Edit: Wait a minute waitaminute… You’re telling me 4 people are deciding the Meta for Mesmer?

The last ESL yesterday included Misha on Mes

Supcutie’s team defeated DoD AND Ellusive eventually losing to Abjured (who doesn’t)

He was using Mes

I saw. And I stand humbly corrected =P

Quadox.7834:

In short: Shatter more reliable most of the time while CI is an opportunist, it can shine but it can also really fail. Shatter builds have low cooldowns on shatters and clone skills (decoy). This means that they can kite and survive more reliably.

That.. is not at all the short of… anything, dude. o_O

Shatter builds do not survive more reliably than CI at all. Theres no arguing that CI is significantly more survivable even with shatter having 4 second CD on decoy and a more frequent Distortion. CI doesn’t need to pop distortion nearly as often since it isn’t as squishy.

Both Shatter AND CI are opportunistic, but in different ways. Shatter has a more reliable BURST, yes, but the damage distance between the two isn’t that far apart. CI has more reliable, more frequent CC.

Again, I’m not saying CI is better but your facts don’t point out Shatter’s “clear” superiority.

Quadox.7834:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

If I’m not mistaken, Helseth, Misha, and Supcutie no longer play Mesmer competitively. Not sure about Zeromis.

You are mistaken

I’d like to catch some footage in that case. What was the last tourney they were playing Mes in?

Edit: Wait a minute waitaminute… You’re telling me 4 people who’ve played Shatter for like.. ever, are deciding the Meta for Mesmer? I know for a fact Misha has played some lockdown builds in tourneys.

EditEdit: Saw the clips. I am totally mistaken!

If I’m not mistaken, Helseth, Misha, and Supcutie no longer play Mesmer competitively. Not sure about Zeromis.

And to pull from my interview with Supcutie..

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Do you feel standard shatter (4/4/0/0/6) is the only “viable” Mesmer comp? Why? Whats your favorite Mesmer playstyle BESIDES shatter?

Shatter is such a synergetic build it’s ridiculous. I think it’s most viable because it is so synergetic and has good cost-effectiveness in terms of traits, but also because of how Mesmer needs to be played based on it’s strengths/weaknesses.
My favorite Mesmer playstyle/build other than Shatter is lockdown/interrupt. With 4/4/6 using chaotic interruption/bountiful interruption/interrupt mantra instead of portal, and S/F GS. I have the build here: http://bit.ly/supcutielockdown You can use Hoelbrak/Traveler/or Pack runes instead of Lyssa.

• Beyond shatter, other Mesmer types have wormed their way into PvP. What other builds have impressed you the most? What roles do you think the following builds should play:

Impressed: Chaotic Interruption lockdown and the bunker mesmer spec that Zeromis showed me http://bit.ly/zeromisbunker.

anndd for some video comparison! Check out:

Jurica’s Shatter Videoguide

Holl’s Chaotic Interruption PvP Montage

Now to make my opinion clear: I have no idea which spec is better. I enjoy CI more and I know it is constantly underestimated/underutilized and that you cannot play CI the same way you play Shatter, the rules are far different and new skills/habits need to be learned. That being said, I do not think that “no one is playing it in tournaments” is a good argument against CI with the meta being so unfavorable to Mesmer in general and most teams are not experimenting with Mesmer comps anyway, much less experimenting beyond shatter.

So what is the deciding factor? What puts Shatter above CI or vice-versa? What say you?

SHATTER

Quadox.7834

Okay. Incredible mightstacking, cooldown on illusions, reflect, extra bounce for pressure and burst. These are not to be neglected.

Neptune.2570:

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.

I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).

In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.

The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.

It’s so meta that nobody ever uses it in tournaments. The forum fandom of ~r30 players does not reflect what’s viabe.

Barely anyone uses mesmers at all in tounaments. What is viable is simply what works best in the team comps that exist today, and glassy burst shatter isn’t that effective against cele groups.

Disagree with this completely. Shatter is actually a huge counter to the cele Meta, if you lose to a cele engi/ele 1v1, you were likely outplayed. It’s funny how shatter Mesmer (The biggest counter to the cele meta imo) hasn’t been able to form a counter meta. The reason is actually because of how much cele bruisers outperform bunkers atm. Mesmer is not a self sustaining profession. At high level team play, you need to co-ordinate with your ‘Carers’ so to speak. And traditionally that’s always been the thief and guard to assist the Mes. The problem is, bunkers have been 100% replaced by cele bruisers, as they hold a point just as well, 1v1/2v2 better, have more mobility, and more dps. This only leaves room for self sustaining professions, hence why we are seeing 4 cele and S/D thief teams (All specs with there personal self-sustain). This leaves a Mesmer in a match-up vs the infamous S/D thief + the combined condi pressure that all cele’s bring and suddenly it’s a tough life for the shatter Mes.

TL:DR – Shatter Mesmers are the perfect counter to the cele Meta, but Bunkers have been completely eclipsed leaving the Shatter Mes without the support it needs. A buff to bunker guards will see shatter mes back in the meta imo.

witcher.3197:

It’s so meta that nobody ever uses it in tournaments. The forum fandom of ~r30 players does not reflect what’s viabe.

For all CI’s strengths, Shatter is still the go-to build if you’re goal is to kill fast and hard and rip boons while you’re at it. Shatter does not need to rely on interrupts to work properly or to net damage, shatter outputs heavier damage more often, and shatter is much more trusted and predictable in team comps.

(Was gonna post some of this this in another thread, but I didn’t want to derail it further.)

Before I begin, the fact that I can even start this debate is a good sign. It wasn’t long ago that shatter was simply, undisputedly (not a word), the best tPvP build for a Mesmer. Now, 4/4/6 CI has gained enough respect to actually become a contender against the standard shatter build. I’d like to open a factual discussion as to why people believe whichever spec is better, and not with broad generalizations like “shatter bursts harder” but more specifically things like “the on-demand Shattering from IP offers alot that CI is lacking, for one the burst is heavier and more frequent due to lower shatter cooldowns and heavier shatter damage.” I will start with the competitor, CI, and take quotes as to why people feel it is superior.

CHAOTIC INTERRUPTION

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.

I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).

In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.

…

Meh. With CS I can achieve the same thing (kill the cele) but I don’t have issue of just laying down whenever that Thief comes along.

As for CI, yes it has less damage but that’s what solid interrupt gameplay is for. If you’re chain interrupting and locking the target out of his skill uses, he’s done for.

As for IP no clone shatters. Great thing to have in your handbag but MoD is just as instant, comes with at least 2 casts, and is on a much short CD than Distortion. And so long as a CI mes has at least 1 clone up (not unlikely, easy to produce), he gets Distortion too. Shatter is so squishy he needs that on demand distortion. CI isn’t so dependent.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.

I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).

In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.

The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.

Actually yeah this is very true. “Shatter” i.e. IP + faster shatter recharge rate doesnt really bring anything additional to the setup over 4, 4, 6 CI lockdown. Only no-clone shatter (which is only for the self) and more frequent shatters. CI traits, stat, and weapon loadouts are far superior. Even CS with appropriate weapons etc is superior because it offers a counter to thieves.

Interrupt/Lockdown is more difficult, but far far far superior. The feats you can pull with it are almost ridiculous in skilled hands.

Shatter offers heavy damage and boonstripping, CI trades off some of that damage for interrupts and immobilizes. CI can last longer, and has favorable matchups against different comps than shatter does. It has less problems with our main hardcounter -thieves- and can fight on the point while having more to offer in teamfights.

Narkodx.1472:

Neptune.2570:

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.

I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).

In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.

The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.

It’s so meta that nobody ever uses it in tournaments. The forum fandom of ~r30 players does not reflect what’s viabe.

Barely anyone uses mesmers at all in tounaments. What is viable is simply what works best in the team comps that exist today, and glassy burst shatter isn’t that effective against cele groups.

Disagree with this completely. Shatter is actually a huge counter to the cele Meta, if you lose to a cele engi/ele 1v1, you were likely outplayed. It’s funny how shatter Mesmer (The biggest counter to the cele meta imo) hasn’t been able to form a counter meta. The reason is actually because of how much cele bruisers outperform bunkers atm. Mesmer is not a self sustaining profession. At high level team play, you need to co-ordinate with your ‘Carers’ so to speak. And traditionally that’s always been the thief and guard to assist the Mes. The problem is, bunkers have been 100% replaced by cele bruisers, as they hold a point just as well, 1v1/2v2 better, have more mobility, and more dps. This only leaves room for self sustaining professions, hence why we are seeing 4 cele and S/D thief teams (All specs with there personal self-sustain). This leaves a Mesmer in a match-up vs the infamous S/D thief + the combined condi pressure that all cele’s bring and suddenly it’s a tough life for the shatter Mes.

TL:DR – Shatter Mesmers are the perfect counter to the cele Meta, but Bunkers have been completely eclipsed leaving the Shatter Mes without the support it needs. A buff to bunker guards will see shatter mes back in the meta imo.

Gotta agree with this guy if I am at range and not fighting on the point I can kill cele classes – which is why Shatter> CI

CI does not have enough damage and is way too reliant on teammates for the burst – CI does not add any damage and if your teammates do not coordinate with you the immob is worthless

The biggest reason Shatter > CI is being able to use the shatter skills without any clones or illusions – For example you just MW for a burst and you get counter pressured and want to use F4 but do not have any clones up

Also the double ranged is superior – CI is better with a focus or pistol I can not give away the damage of GS or the superior defense of Staff

Just my 2c

So many quotes of quotes of quotes..

I just wanted to throw in a little rebuke to a few things:

“CI does not have enough damage and is way too reliant on teammates for the burst – CI does not add any damage and if your teammates do not coordinate with you the immob is worthless”
This isn’t true. CI can burst down just about anyone without much issue. The burst isn’t as instant as a sudden mindwrack shatter but 4/4/6 can still oneshot many builds all the same, and can fight Celestial builds without much issue.

The biggest reason Shatter > CI is being able to use the shatter skills without any clones or illusions – For example you just MW for a burst and you get counter pressured and want to use F4 but do not have any clones up
If you get counter pressured on CI, you have clone deaths (weakness), plenty of boons (including protection), and far more innate toughness than Shatter.. And that’s assuming you don’t just simply interrupt their counter pressure. That’s the other thing.. CI played well leaves VERY little counterpressure room.

Also the double ranged is superior – CI is better with a focus or pistol I can not give away the damage of GS or the superior defense of Staff
You can play CI double-ranged, and it works just as well. I use Sword/Focus -Staff as personal preference for the utility Focus offers.

And on-topic.. I think build diversity would open up once our Grandmasters start to become Grandmaster-worthy. x.x

About to hit Supcutie with some more questions, does anyone have anything they’d like to ask as well?

Hehehe. Dr Divine its about time you joined the lockdown fold. Check out holls CI video montage or wait a bit and I’m sure Ross will wave his phantrupt flag. =P

When it comes to dueling builds nothing beats lockdown or phantasm. Ross’s build uses both!

I had a reply.. But Pyros reply just totally emasculated it.

But yeah, I don’t think a class specifically has a grand impact on the meta more than any other class. This ‘cele meta’ isn’t a response to Mesmer and Thief.

While i currently run sw/f, I absolutely love sw/sw. I use sword/sword whenever I run CS (Confounding Suggestions)

My favorite sw/sw build is 6/4/4/0/0 (II, VII, / VI, X/ V, VIII) with Mesmer runes and blink, decoy(or portal or signet of Dom) and a staff or Gs. I’ll usually take sigils of paralyze and fire on swords, hydro/energy on staff, occasionally I’ll shift the energy sigil over the fire and go hydro/doom.

6/2/0/0/6 is also really fun but hella difficult.

Sword offhand is actually kind of poor in close range. The counter is better at mid range since it can leave you open to attack and the iswordsman works at 1200r. Going sw/sw-Gs gives you a nice high damage mix of ranges.

Yeah, I was answering the question of:

Steinpilz.5078:

But when I have mesmers as opponents they always manage to immobilize & shatter me in an instant.
How do you do that?

Hey Stein what weapons are you running? And are you running standard shatter?

What you got caught with is Illusionary Leap (Sword 3) into Blurred Frenzy(sword 2) into Shatter. The sword leap immobilizes and creates a clone, and the rest is clockwork.

Shatters work best the closer you are to an opponent, so you’ll often want to get into melee-range before activating them. Even you + 1 clone can be devastating since each shatter hits for over 2k. For a read on how they work and when to use them check the below link

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Lyssa-s-Grimoire-The-Mesmer-Handbook/first#post2916350

Landing shatters can be difficult without a sword or other form of immobilize, but dodging into your shatters can often help. (but can be a bad habit if you over rely on it)

It helps to keep in mind the mindset of your rival Mesmer… Which is likely similar to your own! Lets start with the main question; why go into stealth?

• Offensively, to set up a burst.
• Defensively to reposition out of a bad situation.

Now if your opponent is attacking you and goes into stealth, that means they have 3 seconds to get their burst off. How do you defend against an offensive stealth burst? Timing.

• Keep in mind the distance between you and the opponent, will it take at least 1s to get to you?

• Keep in mind your defenses. Blink, decoy, blurred frenzy, phase retreat, dodging and distortion. Any one of these can completely mitigate a shatter burst.

With the above two questions answered, you know why and when the opponent will stealth burst you, but where will the attack come from?

• Behind you, most likely. Stealth breaks targeting and the best way to capitalize on this is to swing behind the opponent.
• Directly ontop of you. Shatter bursts hit hardest in melee range. Never stand still and keep in mind where the clones are positioned, that’ll help determine where the attack will come from.

One thing to keep in mind, if a Mesmer is using Decoy to engage you, they’re trading a crucial defense for that burst. Once it fails, you are at an advantage since you likely share all the same defenses. Once decoy, blink, and distortion are down that’s the time to go for the kill. Try not to throw all your eggs in one big burst in the beginning, because odds are it will likely be defended against. Instead, observe and whittle them down until the opportunity presents.

(Sorry for typos. Cellphone)

Meh. Pretty cool, and nothing that’ll make people cry for nerfs.

One day, Offhand sword… You’ll get your buff.

We went from being able to visit the bank, PvE, Map completion, or even simple things like duel and/or hotjoin while waiting in queue to… Wandering around in the pvp lobby, locked in. If the ridiculous, spammy, (and often offensive) map chat wasn’t annoying enough. Now gold spammers are having a field day while we’re in the mist.

I could QQ some more but.. ya get the picture. Can someone explain to me why this change was implemented?

Wat? I’m barely even on more than like 1-2 hours a day!

Hey warshade. I saw some of the video earlier, but didn’t have time to comment. (even now I’m on my cell)

A couple things I noticed.. Check out terrorsquads phase retreat guide and youtube some blink spot guides to learn some Blink locations. Your blinks are often being wasted for an extra bit of mobility rather than being used to reposition into favorable spots or saving you from danger.

You seem to over rely on GS a bit too much, I saw a few instances where you were using GS in melee range when fighting on point, even though you coulda switched to sword. As a rule, greatsword is stronger the further you are from opponents, and the auto attack damage scales with the distance. Use iWave (GS5) to push people off point and away from you.

And shatters.. Specifically diversion[F3] if not being used to set up a chain daze -multiple illusions running from different distances to daze the opponent- then it should be either to save yerself defensively or interrupting stomps/rezzes.

(As usual, any and all are welcome to join us in OMFG events! You do not have to be a member to participate.)

Anyone down to explore the newest living story content this weekend? If so, what time is good for you?

I’ve always found that it tends to be the give/take that makes a team really work.

With your ranger at my back, I can leap into the middle of a fight with CI Staff Mesmer as if I’m some deranged warrior and go absolutely ham. I can do my thing and anytime I’m caught offguard or flanked/outnumbered you simple thin the swarm with a barrage of arrows. That Melee/ranged dynamic duo (er.. Trio if we include the pet. Sextet if we include the clones. Giggity) we have is fantastic.

I also love staff ele/ lockdown Mesmer. I swear I will guard the hell out of a staff ele and immobilizing enemies in their AoEs? Plus all the combo fields!? Sign me up.

Someone be my staff ele. =[

(Reserved for more wishes =P)

The “Heart of Thorns” expansion rumor is gaining traction

According to the above link, it seems likely that after this Living Story season ends, an expansion will be on the way. So why not make a wishlist in hopes that the devs may take a gander over here for some mesmer ideas. What are your thoughts on:

• New weapon ideas
• New Utility ideas
• New traitline ideas
• Buffs/Nerfs to current weapons, traits and ideas

MESMER FORUM WISHLIST

Since this bugfix missed this patch, pleaasse put this fix into the next one!

Oh dude I did not see this before, thanks a lot! It’s one of the rare times I get to see myself from the opponent’s perspective. You got a few more matches there than I do, but I’ll try and merge the fragmented videos I took and set them up side-by-side.

• How good are mesmers in PvP? Sometimes I hear they are deadly, other times sub-par?
  It really depends on how competitive you’re looking to become. In most cases a well played Mesmer can be a strong asset to a team in different ways (depending on the build) but as you climb to higher competitive levels it becomes more difficult to remain effective. At the peak of competitive level (like top 15 or so) you’ll find very few Mesmer, since at the moment Celestial builds are dominating.

• How steep is the learning curve for a PvP mesmer? They are a tricky profession to grasp I know, but is it even harder in PvP?
  I’ve taught a lot of Mesmers, and dude there is a lot to learn. Most builds feel uncomfortable at first until you start to understand their rhythm. I’d recommend starting with a 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter build, since it forces you to learn all the nuances about the class and can be really rewarding when you do.
  And yes, Mesmer is harder in PvP than in PvE, but also much more fun to play.

• What builds are most effective these days/ what are current metas?
  Most proven effective right now are 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter and 4/4/6/0/0 lockdown, the current “meta” for the most competitive Mesmer is the shatter build mentioned. That being said, people have managed to make Condition Shatter/PU Condition/ Stunlock (Confounding Suggestions) lockdown and a few custom builds work. Once you learn the classes mechanics and traits, you can usually make a build that suits your style.

As an aside, you’ll hear a lot of mixed feelings about Mesmer; the best thing to do is to simply jump in and form your own opinion. What Swish said in his post isn’t necessarily wrong but it is heavily influenced by his personal experiences which seem to be vastly different from my own. Since launch and to this day I’ve had a blast on my mesmer, especially in PvP and haven’t really ever ran into the issues he posted, but others have.

At the end of the day it comes down to exactly how competitive you really wanna be, and how much you enjoy your build.. so get out there and explore!

It depends on who/what I’m fighting. I don’t do that vs you. =P

The bounty has not been claimed and now the gold reward is raised!

• 40g to any Mesmer who can defeat Warlord of Chaos in a best of 5!
• 20g to any other class!

Come test your might and smack this fool.

So I’ve been running this build again after receiving some excellent advise:

second mango.1563:

You use your dodges far too liberally. Some of them might be defensible (maybe), but many of your dodges were inexcusable. Just because you run energy sigil or have deceptive evasion doesn’t mean you should be spamming dodges.

The most egregious example is 8:09 – 8:18 in the Forest vid. You guys won a team fight, and you were chasing a mesmer, blowing two dodges in the process. When he turned around to fight, you had to use your distortion because you had no dodges. No, the marginal speed boost isn’t a good excuse, especially when you’re pushing into far and see multiple enemies on the screen.

So best way to fix my bad dodging habits is to play a build that has no DE! Also, this build is probably the most difficult Mesmer spec I’ve ever played, yet monstrously effective when played properly. I consider it my training build, forcing me to be smart and resourceful in mixing both shatter and lockdown playstyles.

Ross was kind enough to help me train and practice, and I’ve got those vids here. Will be adding notations soon.

Duels vs Ross 1
Duels vs Ross 2
Duels vs Ross 3
Duels vs Ross 4
Duels vs Ross 5

StickerHappy.8052:

For chaos, he burns his rupts too soon, wasting an mod and sword 4 at the same time. You need to play more chaos.

Sometimes I did that to bait/proc his counter and then interrupt it.

But lawd. Double-traited sword counter is so spammable! Sometimes… sometimes you just can’t help.