Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

Chrispy, don’t you realize? HE’S ALSO A NECROMANCER! How else could he make Death his kitten? In fact, he’s every job class in the game.

yeah, but, he aint going to come after us for using guns. Though….he might wipe us off the face of the earth anyways if we don’t start learning how to do roundhouse kicks to atleast give the name Ranger some justice.

videoboy.4162:

Chrispy.5641:

videoboy.4162:

But they’re Hunters, not Druids, so that’s not really a strong reason.

They’re Hunters, Druids, and Beastmasters all in one! Little too much emphasis on the beastmaster, but still….

The only things they have, that come remotely close to druidic roots are the spirits. That might make up a 1/4 of their abilities. The other 3/4 falls reliably under Hunter. They’re actually very similar to a more historical version of Native Americans (I’m sure other Native groups could fit this as well) and even they took up the rifle once it became available.

oh I’m not against Rifle for Rangers (anymore), but seriously, having a focus, an entire traitline called “Nature Magic” isn’t enough to be called Druid?

And also, There is a very big difference between dropping a person at 300+ yards by making a sucessful headshot, and sneaking up to 50 yards of an animal before taking aim. For that reason, I say that ‘Marksmanship’ is also not the same as ‘Hunter’.

There’s a reason why Rangers arent called Hunters. For one Thing, Hunters just sounds weak and lame. For another, we do alot more things than hunting (of which, we actually do very little of in this game). Atleast let our name sound cool!

videoboy.4162:

But they’re Hunters, not Druids, so that’s not really a strong reason.

They’re Hunters, Druids, and Beastmasters all in one! Little too much emphasis on the beastmaster, but still….

Jelle.4623:

^for training you have sergeants, you don’t need Scarlets for that.

Who trained the Sergeants?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Kilger.5490:

The fact that rangers dont use guns or pistols is part of their character. We are masters of the bow. Guns became popular because people can use them easily, using long bows proficiently requires lifelong training. A gun toting ranger would just be a hack ranger. Warriors are masters of weapons so it makes sense they use both.

Not to mention if we dared to use guns and called us a Ranger, a certain Texas Ranger would come and wink us out of existence.

Why? He’s not famous for guns! He’s more famous for the blackbelt that he made from the beard that he grew on his…..kittens. And he also has an epic battle with Death every year on his birthday. He’s currently 73 and 0. I’d be more afraid if I were a Necromancer honestly.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Chrispy.5641:

Which seems kind of wierd that you would have that large of a trained military force,…what, 8 months after Zhaitan’s death?

Not really. They already knew how to fight as a group, being pirates. 8 months is plenty of time to teach them to fight as a more organized group.

…And that you have that large of a military force, that know completely different tactics than any other pirate faction on Tyria. What, Did Scarlet find time in her busy day creating alliances and watchwork abominations to train them or something?

I’m just saying that all that preparation, training, military building, etc. had to of taken years, not a few months. Yeah, they might have gotten access to Pact airships,… later, and in probably long after forming.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s impossible because it’s been confirmed that the Personal Story takes place in 1325 AE. The Living Story begins after the death of Zhaitan. As others stated before Andele, the Aetherblades by all appearances is brand new – made by Scarlet, after all – and are seemingly made post-Zhaitan, ergo post-Personal Story, ergo post-Tybalt’s death.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

How is the timeline impossible? What is the biggest signature of the Aetherblades? It’s their airships. Airshipsthat were stolen from the Pact. The Pact did not even exist until after the retaking of Claw Island. Ergo, there is no possible way the Aetherblades, who were clearly formed after the formation of the Pact, could have included Tybalt in their ranks.

Which seems kind of wierd that you would have that large of a trained military force,…what, 8 months after Zhaitan’s death?

Gulesave.5073:

(Dons flame-proof suit)

If you want Allie to respond to what you’re saying: say something she hasn’t already responded to.

Some people are doing a good job of that. However, much of the last umpteen pages is criticism stuck on repeat. They’ve already heard that, and it isn’t helping us move toward solutions.

I hate to say it, but……THIS. You are 100% correct.

(hey, got any extra Flame Proof suits?)

(Chrispy Ideas, part 2)

MORE SURVIVAL AND SHOUT TRAITS

• The Purpose of this Idea is to rework and expand on our current selection of survival and shout traits so that we can have more possible build combinations, and also have builds where we take only survival skills or only take shouts.
• I’m not suggesting any Shout or survival skill rework, only the traits

Changes and Benefits

• Wilderness Knowledge – Survival Skills Recharge Faster. Survival Skills grant Regeneration when used.
  - (They are survival Skills. Shouldn’t they actually contribute to surviving?)

• Expertise Training – Pets deal extra Condition Damage. Survival Skills deal damage.
  - (This skill needs to be able to affect the Ranger in some way, as should all the other pet traits)
  - (Low damage (like what 1 pulse of Bonfire does (32 with a coefficient of 0.1)) on each stack/pulse of Sharpening Stone, Muddy Terrain, and Entangle. Gives morechances for critical hit effects)

• Shout Mastery – Shouts recharge faster. When you use a shout, pets break stun, and are cured of immobilize, cripple, and chill.
  - (If pets are such a large part of our damage, then we need more ways to break them out of control effects, and get them back to dealing damage)

Downsides

• All that extra damage might be too much, and all the extra chances for critical hits might be overkill with some things, such as the Sharpened Edges trait, making Rangers even more annoying than before when it comes to bleed stacking.
• Also, looking at earlier changes I proposed to Troll Unguent, Heal as One, and Rampage as One, it might make those heals even more powerful (see link below)

Discussion

• There is a much more substantial rework of all Ranger Traits, as well as Signets and Opening Strike in this thread :: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Trait-Rework-ver-1/3647484
• (I’m just changing a few things around, and migrating it over here, one small piece at a time)
• These traits do also affect the earlier idea I had for making Heal as One/Rampage as One shouts, and Troll Unguent a Survival Skill from this post :: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/3694498
• Yes, I am more in favor of smaller ideas and tweaks than complete overhauls to the profession. I know people have asked that before.

Kalavier.1097:

Chrispy.5641:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There’s also the bit about, you know, Evon actively stirring up malcontent in the refugee camps. Going as he was, he could have started a riot, one that would benefit no one but his public image. Conscription was really the only way to stop him without driving him out or declaring him a criminal. He ought to be thankful it came to this.

Hey! He’s a politician and a businessman. A dirty, crooked, greedy person that doesn’t care anything at all for a life, but atleast he doesn’t try to hide everything about him behind a wall….like pretty much every actual person in power in Lions Arch does.

He’s shady, he’s a politician yes, but when his bashing revolves around “All of your neighbors and loved ones are dead because THEY REFUSED TO LISTEN TO ME.”, his stunt at the gate leads to possible rioting. I mean, imagine if one of those few civilians walked by and then went “Hey, I remember you, at the gate you shut it off before anybody else could get through! I saw a number of people killed trying to reach another exit!”

The forced to supply Lionguard Is most likely the council getting back at him for both the bashing and stranding a number of civilians as well as Captain Shud in the middle of LA.

And frankly, in this situation, I’d rather see “This man is helping the Lionguard retake the city and avenge our fallen!” then “That man left a number of people and a Captain of the council to die in the center of town, and now is bashing them and accusing them of all the deaths. Hypocrite!”

Now with the Council forcing Evon to help, they just opened the possibility of Evon being the good guy in all of this, if he can spin it right. And with the assumption/fact that the Captain’s Council, the actual ruling body did little to nothing to prepare Lion’s Arch for the attack, they don’t really have much in the way of credibility themselves, atleast no more than any other ex-pirate would.

I still see Evon Gnashblade coming out of this in a stronger position than he was before, and pretty much everyone else in a weaker position than before this started(except maybe the lionguard, and that’s if they all didn’t die getting the civilians out of the city)

Bran.7425:

Chrispy.5641:

The thread was dead to me at about the point where I was clicking on the names of 90% of those posters in that thread, and realizing that most of them have never made a Ranger related post before.

I’m not saying thats bad, I’m just asking, “why did 50 + of you suddenly and finally pick this week to voice your concerns for the Ranger profession and finally post ideas?”

Were this people that post a lot elsewhere or brand new? If new then maybe lurkers, if not maybe people hoping to catch the next flavor of the quarter (year, with the major changes being spaced out so much).

Some of them were brand new, others have posted on every other profession, except for ranger. Some of them last posted over a year ago. Some had exactly one post before, etc.

Like I said, its not a bad thing, I’m just wondering why they stayed in the shadows until now? The shadows don’t really help us, that’s more of the Thief’s thing…

SkiTz.4590:

there is more than enough suggestions in this CDI… the players here who have posted have obviously stated what all is wrong with this class (basically everything lol) and what are some possible fixes….

The thing anet has to realize is , almost all of the rangers in this CDI STRONGLY believe bandaid fixes will not help this class AT ALL… we need to see some form of commitment or serious idea from a developer stating their intentions on the future of this class…. other wise, its just going to be constant bickering like this

We have given anet plenty of ideas here, it’s on them now.

There’s still room for plenty more ideas. I’ve actually been waiting for the thread to slow down a little so I could post more of mine (which I will be doing tonight), so they can actually be discussed instead of being passed over and flooded by everything else. I’m not saying these ideas will be any better or worse, I just wanted to wait a day or two and let the initial rush of posts to slow down. I can think of atleast 1 other person that was thinking of doing the same.

Aside from that, yeah, while the thread is dead for many people and the thread could be a little more under control, but, its not buried yet.

The thread was dead to me at about the point where I was clicking on the names of 90% of those posters in that thread, and realizing that most of them have never made a Ranger related post before.

I’m not saying thats bad, I’m just asking, “why did 50 + of you suddenly and finally pick this week to voice your concerns for the Ranger profession and finally post ideas?”

Criminal.5627:

could we get a list of what is being taken from this thread so far by the Arena net team to see where we should focus on things that they might have missed or ideas yet to be expressed, there has been several ideas on things to help pets as well as to try to get rangers off of the bottom of the power build efficiency compaired to other classes on top of a lot of things with conditions, utilities…. and then a lot of useless crap.

So can we please see what is being taken from this thread (ideas that have been passed on to development teams) as of now so we can figure out what we should focus on for the duration that this CDI thread is open (ideas that have not already been passed on to development teams)?

I second this. I’m glad that discussion is finally starting to pick up compared to how the thread was a few days ago, but it would be nice to see what Anet has taken from this thread so far so we’re not discussing things that don’t need to be.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There’s also the bit about, you know, Evon actively stirring up malcontent in the refugee camps. Going as he was, he could have started a riot, one that would benefit no one but his public image. Conscription was really the only way to stop him without driving him out or declaring him a criminal. He ought to be thankful it came to this.

Hey! He’s a politician and a businessman. A dirty, crooked, greedy person that doesn’t care anything at all for a life, but atleast he doesn’t try to hide everything about him behind a wall….like pretty much every actual person in power in Lions Arch does.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Chrispy.5641:

So…, I’m a troll for having a different point of view, and I’m a troll for quoting a movie too (a relevant quote too by the way). have anything else you want to add?

That’s not what he was saying at all.

No one – not a single person – is calling you a troll because of your point of view. It’s how you’re handling the argument which is the reason why you’re being called a troll. Your arguing in a fashion similar to how a troll does.

I think that for the fact that there is exactly 1 whole person on my side of the argument, I am handling myself pretty well.

(Continued…)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Chrispy.5641:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

We were there on behalf of, and therefore as agents of, the Lionguard.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

There… better? (not that its in any particular order)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Chrispy.5641:

Also, seeing to what extent the Lionguard and Captain’s Council will go when deputizing people in the recent living world patch ::
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escape_from_Lion's_Arch_(living_world)#ambient_dialogue

… something tells me that I would have been accused of being an Aetherblade supporter and hunted down by the Lionguard if I didn’t go along with that mail anyways.

Are you referring to Evon Gnashblade? That’s rather different, given how they sought him out, while us players were not. Not to mention Kiel and Evon are bitter rivals – I kind of view that as Kiel abusing her power in times of need – which Aetherblade Retreat, was not. And Evon would only be shot because he’s already been deputized (against his will; while we were with our will).

You’re comparing two completely different scenarios.

And keep in mind that the dialogues happening in the open world technically happen after the escort events. Just as the Marionette event only happened once in lore. Thus, Kiel’s forcibly deputizing Evon is after he took his merchandise through the last active asura gate in the city and shut it down before civilians can get through, effectively abandoning the entire city and subsequently going on “I told you all!” BS-ranting.

It still sets a precedent that makes me think about what could have happened if there was an option to ignore Kiel and see ingame consequences of that action. (…Maybe the gift Scarlet sent me wouldn’t have blown up in my face?)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Chrispy.5641:

I wasn’t just referring to you with that post

Well you did quote just me.

I’m sorry, allow me to quote every relevant post, so you know who exactly I was talking to.

Kalavier.1097:

People seem to miss the fact Kiel didn’t claim the Airship. Magnus did. Which mean contesting it would involve the Lionguard and maybe even the Captain’s council.

The amount of hassle that would create would be way too much when as a Pact commander you could find an airship that isn’t currently on a mission and request them to help you out with whatever.

Which is entirely what LA would say. “Go boss around one of your own airships. We are claiming this for LA.”

Also… this quote/mail

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

In reality, by charging in their with Kiel, you were acting as a lionguard deputy. Which means all your effort was also “Lionguard effort”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

Ellen Kiel worked really hard, all the way until we got to this dungeon, because she did nothing, as I said. so….nope.

She did nothing? She was ressing my one PUG all the time, so she was doing more than half of the work. Pfft, besides what do I need with a starship . . . I mean, airship? Could you imagine the repair bills, the upkeep costs, the Consortium insurance bills? No thanks, let her have the headache.

Its also the kind of quality that got Lions Arch destroyed apparently, because her inspiring words could do nothing to save the city. That, or she is lying. so….nope.

Of course her inspiring words didn’t help. Captain Evon kept saying she was full of crap right up until he started “Kiel didn’t do anything to save you but I warned everyone about this” . . . not only that but all his supporters kept saying she was a lying liar who lied and unfit for the council, so really . . .

Does it surprise you the Council basically said “yeah, they don’t trust you so we should?” . . .

Magnus is making a political play that probably has nothing to do with Kiel anyways, so much as spreading his influence?…yeah, lets go with that one.

At least his heart is in the right place. “Fort Marriner has never fallen under my watch and it isn’t going to now!” Of course, that miasma, it’s a killer. Someone needs to do something about that air quality in LA.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Because he had known Ellen for years, and we’re just adventures who breeze through every once in a while? Because it was Ellen’s initiative that got us to do the heavy lifting, and that is precisely the kind of quality you’re looking for in a member of a ruling council? Because Ellen has worked hard all her life for the good of the city, and we pule like spoiled brats if we aren’t paid every time we lift a finger? Because we’re already second in command of the organization that invented the airship? Because only King Solomon would suggest cutting an airship into five parts? Take your pick.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

(to be continued…)

Tatsuo.1478:

I don’t like that effects increase when pet is downed as such traits may force to let kill pet for added bonuses. So instead it should increase bonuses when you keep pet alive, not dead.

There are traits already in the rework that make you more powerful when the pet is alive.

The reason why some traits were changed to have more power when both pets are down is so the Ranger can stay somewhat powerful instead of being totally helpless (once their equally helpless pets go down.)

Jocksy.3415:

misterdevious.6482:

Atherakhia.4086:

Perhaps we should move away from the burst and damage discussion while we wait for Allie to check in and discuss some of the other issues plagueing this class?

I think now would be a good time to discuss the issues with our utility skills and why many of them don’t seem worth taking until we’ve first invested well over 20 or 30 points in various trees.

Signets for example; their activated portions have no impact on the Ranger as a whole with only a few exceptions unless we first get Signet of the Beastmaster in the Marksmanship line. We have similar issues with Spike trap not being useful without 30points in Skirmishing. Spirits not being useful unless they’re mobile. Guard not having any functional use without Nature’s Voice.

I would rather them not mess up signets. Untraited Signet of the Hunt and Signet of the Wild provide a passive baseline of mobility and survivability for WvW. Many people use them for that.

But the point of a signet is that it should be worth activating… Allowing the untraited active to affect the ranger would not “mess up” with signet, it would allow more build diversity by taking off the obligation to have a GM trait for them to work like what one expect from a signet…

You need to consider just how powerful the actives of some of our signets are to start out, which is why we have to take a grandmaster trait just for them to work on us.

For example, if Signet of Stone were to be untraited, it gives us 6 seconds of taking no physical damage, us and our pets. (Its automatically better than Endure pain because of that, which gives the warrior, 4 seconds, even though endure pain is a stunbreaker and our cooldown is longer).

Also, Signet of the Wild gives us 8 seconds of stability, and +25% damage. What equal skill does that without traits?

If Signets are to be changed to affect Rangers to start, then their active effects will most likely have to be toned down, and then the grandmaster trait would only increase their active effects back to where they originally were, (which is something that Anet should consider)

Prysin.8542:

jcbroe.4329:

Does anyone know when this CDI ends because I feel like we haven’t accomplished anything in the past 10 pages.

It looks like a bust to me at this point. The developer presence in this CDI versus the others that are going on is just really lacking. They can take from that what they will, this isn’t a “shots fired” comment, I’m just stating facts.

i feel the biggest issue so far is not the lack of comments, after all this thread is getting a lot of posts very fast. I feel the issue is that the representative, or rather the devs at large, seems to have lost their enthusiasm now that the players are saying what they want. At the voting thread, we were presented with a rather optimistic post, but the responses we get here now is more akin to “Cant be kitten d to fix this or that because this or that may or may not possibly lead to a power creep”…. well rangers, as is, are as a matter of fact pretty much at the bottom of the power scale, especially so in power builds, so a minor power creep wouldnt hurt, they just need to look at where they can introduce a creep and where they cant. So far, i think all rangers agree that direct damage need a increase, and conditions are fine.

In Anet’s defense, they have talked about power creep, and about wanting to avoid power creep for atleast a year now.

@SpellOfIniquity…
Many people just plain refuse to take traits into account when looking at how and why skills are balanced.

@Everyone…
The other problem is that there is a general misguided sense of what a skill type is, and isn’t supposed to be. For example, a shout is supposed to be instant because all the other shouts are instant. Traps can only be triggered by enemies, so Healing Spring can not be classified as a Trap (a suggestion I made in a different thread was to make healing spring a atrap so it would benefit from trap traits), etc.

Well, by that misguided logic, lets change the Spirit of Nature, so its passive effect can only work once every 10 seconds, and only have a 35% chance to work, instead of working 100% of the time every second. It is a spirit after all, so it should work the same as the other spirits.

complain to me all you want that this thread is only about shouts. Your inability to understand how or why skills are balanced in the way they are is the true cancer that is spreading through the Ranger forums.

Forzani.2584:

You people are silly. You don’t even realize your arguments have been proven invalid.

FINALLY! Someone gets it! (this comment has 10% more sarcasm than the quote its replying to!)

jcbroe.4329:

In the realm of risk/reward balancing, it only makes sense to have to sacrifice DPS for burst. Burst shouldn’t be a mechanic that increases DPS on top of what you’re sustaining, it should take the damage that is typically done in a given time frame, and with some setup the equates to “skilled” gameplay, condense it into a smaller time frame that’s harder to recover from for an opponent.

Burst should never be a “limit break,” and I think that what Allie is trying to say is that the intent and the direction that the balance team is attempting to take the game is to make certain current damage options that are too strong for how often and easily they are able to be used and reduce their capabilities and “spam” ability, and in that sense, once all of the details are ironed out, rangers will theoretically be able to do the same damage as any other class in a given time frame, but have less “instantaneous” damage, so that the damage is output consistently as opposed to in chunks.

With that philosophy in mind, it makes it so that “whiffing” and attack on rangers is going to be less punishing than whiffing a burst skill that can’t be spammed on other classes, because where rangers will be able to recover and pick up where they left off, so to speak, other classes are going to be made much more vulnerable when they expend their burst options, which means that during fights, rangers will have lots more opportunity to gain momentum and control fights due to how rangers output their damage.

Everything you said sounds about right….IF it works. I think we’re still a long ways off before we see that kind of balance in this game.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Chrispy.5641:

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

I don’t know how you want this to get working since traps still need an enemy to trigger them.

Same way that the Guild Wars 1 Healing Spring worked. It triggered automatically when you used it (enemies have nothing to do with it), but it was counted as a trap so it would benefit from trap related skills like Trapper’s Speed and Trapper’s Focus. (Not that it was a particularly amazing overpowered skill combination because healing spring was actually kind of weak in that game…, it was still there)

Healing Spring also makes the most sense to benefit from Trap related traits, such as the larger effect radius from Trapper’s Expertise.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

evidence of what? With the exception of the mail that you guys showed me (Which doesn’t prove much other than the Lionguard’s incessant habit of forcibly deputizing people, even when outside their realm of influence), you have shown me no evidence so far other than your own interpretation of how the events transpired. Am I not allowed the same luxury? Must I agree with your interpretation of events and only your interpretation of events?

Forcibly?

You chose to assault the Aetherblade Retreat. Ergo, you chose to be deputized.

Because forcibly is really with your consent.

Sure, from a game design it may be “forcibly” but this is ArenaNet forcibly making it so that you get deputized when doing the dungeon – you can still chose not to do the dungeon. The Lionguard aren’t the one forcing you (or your character) to do anything.

And excuse me, but I have not provided my interpretation on how the events transpired. I, myself, have only provided dialogue quotes – others may have included their interpretations while also including quotes, but I haven’t. And to claim I’m doing something I’m not is rather rude, as you were earlier in this thread by doing the very same.

I wasn’t just referring to you with that post (I did say you guys), and you did talk about me ignoring ‘evidence laid infront of my nose’ when there has been 1 piece of evidence from everyone in this thread so far.

Also, seeing to what extent the Lionguard and Captain’s Council will go when deputizing people in the recent living world patch ::
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escape_from_Lion's_Arch_(living_world)#ambient_dialogue

… something tells me that I would have been accused of being an Aetherblade supporter and hunted down by the Lionguard if I didn’t go along with that mail anyways.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Chrispy.5641:

Call me a Troll if you want, but from my point of view, the Jedi are evil….no, wait! ….From my point of view, you are the Trolls, trying to force your viewpoint onto me.

With comments like this, it is hard to find evidence of you not being a troll. The Jedi are part of the Star Wars franchise not the Guild Wars Franchise, thus it seems you just saying that to try and provoke a knee-jerk response from Jedi fans. This is common behavior of a Troll.

So…, I’m a troll for having a different point of view, and I’m a troll for quoting a movie too (a relevant quote too by the way). have anything else you want to add?

The big discussion right now in the CDI thread isn’t 100% Ranger related, and while it isn’t, it is good that we’re finally talking about the Burst vs. Sustained….not that I expect much to actually come out of that though.

Chokolata.1870:

at Durzilla: you do know that they nuked every single pet burst attack by 50%? right? that was a while ago when we lost 5 pt zephyr, and long leash. Buddy, there is no more dual raven f2!!! Using it is a loss of dps compared to just leaving the bird auto attacking

Using any pet F2 is a loss to pet dps (except for Drakes, which have to be timed extremely well or they miss)(And Jaguar)

Dalanor.5387:

Take into consideration that if you attach a skill type to them, Anet must balance it with that. So either it will be pathetic without a CD reduction or OP with a shorter CD. It’s not a win-win situation.

Well, my suggestion aside, that’s probably what makes our heals so good compared to other professions. We don’t have to rely on traits to make them stronger. They are already strong.

(I have a bunch of healing skill calculations on this thread :: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Healing-Skill-calculations-Updated-again/3364759)

Then again, other profession heals are already strong too. Warriors can heal for 400 hp per second with healing signet, with no additional investment into any traits or healing power. Our Troll Unguent Skill doesn’t match that healing until we get close to 2000 healing power.

I don’t think Healing Signet is too strong, rather, I think its about where all healing skills should be at 0 healing power.

I think it would be better for the overall game if all healing skills can get close to and surpass that hp average per second, either by default or through trait investment. (Troll Unguent with a 20% reduction in cooldown would heal for an average of 405 hp per second, spread across 20 seconds, with no additional healing power.)

(Yeah, I also think that other profession heals like Healing surge should be buffed to match that number, or be able to get buffed through traits as well.)

Abrilete.1439:

Just one small correction… Rangers have two bursts, not only one: Maul and Path of Scars.

Another small correction…Rangers have three bursts, not only two: Maul, Path of Scars, and Counterattack.

(A well timed counter attack used with Signet of the Hunt will deal almost as much damage as Maul will, and more often than not catches everyone off guard when they get hit by it.)

Yoh.8469:

Chrispy.5641:

• 90% of the time, we don’t have what it takes to overwhelm the enemy with DoT because there is too much counterplay to it currently.

• What I am saying, Ranger needs alot of work, not just on the DoT part, but also on the Resilient part. We need to be able to react and bounce back after taking high damage, or getting poked with alot of conditions. While our heals are quite good at that, nothing else is right now.

Not to nitpick, but your using that word wrong.
Counterplay only describe a situation where a mechanic is fun to use and be used on, and open up new options for both.
I think the word you were looking for was ‘counters’.
There are too many counters to DoT. Which I agree with incidentally.

Also, I think the Ranger is one of the most resilient professions out there. I just got finished doing WvW where I had at least 5 guys chasing me on low health during this battle we had, and they just could not for the life of them kill me.
We have so many evades and a lot of regeneration skills and traits, and Bark Skin is awesome. I know people love Empathetic Bond, but man is Bark Skin good. Tank mode.

I just use Melandru’s Runes and Lemongrass, conditions begone.
But yeah, we could stand to have a couple more active condition removals.

But besides that, we have the tools there if you want to use them.
If you elect not to, well that’s your fault.

I agree to an extent that the Ranger is ‘Resilient’. I ’ve said before that their heals are better than anything, but, like you said, we need more active condition removal (or more healing to counter our lack of active condition removal {or both}).

I have gone against 5 guys before and come out alive (thanks to settler’s gear, melandru runes, and lemongrass), but my damage output was next to zero. Other professions can go against 5 guys and come out alive, and still deal damage, and not rely on runes and food to do it (yes, there are some who can’t, still doesn’t make it right). That’s where I take issue with the Ranger’s so called Resiliency.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

evidence of what? With the exception of the mail that you guys showed me (Which doesn’t prove much other than the Lionguard’s incessant habit of forcibly deputizing people, even when outside their realm of influence), you have shown me no evidence so far other than your own interpretation of how the events transpired. Am I not allowed the same luxury? Must I agree with your interpretation of events and only your interpretation of events?

Eluveitie.1290:

Guys, he’s clearly a troll or someone beyond redemption from simple logic. Leave it be, let him talk to himself.

No, I just take the simple joy in the fact that you guys can’t stand someone with a different point of view from your own.

Call me a Troll if you want, but from my point of view, the Jedi are evil….no, wait! ….From my point of view, you are the Trolls, trying to force your viewpoint onto me.

Arrys.7145:

Like those ideas but healing spring as survival. takes survival skills to find a spring right. Plus aren’t traps triggered by enemies….

Troll ungeunt sounds like some salve so I agree survival makes sense but not all heals need a cd reduction. Heal as one could be improved and needs it over TU is all.

Good concepts

It does make sense too that Healing Spring could be a survival skill. There are a few reasons why I went with trap instead though:::
- Healing Spring was a ‘Trap’ in Guild Wars 1, and benefited from the same skill that other traps did (bu it triggered automatically, not from enemies) :::

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Healing_spring
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Trap
• The other reason is that the traits that benefit traps would make more sense for Healing Spring, such as using Trapper’s Expertise to give it a larger effect radius to remove conditions and give regen to allies in a larger area. Traits like Circle of Life would actually benefit from that larger radius as well.

On the lower cooldown thing, almost every skill type has a trait that reduces cooldown, so if you change healing skills to be of an actual skill type instead of just plain healing, it would make sense for it to also benefit from the traits that reduce cooldown.

I do admit that numbers have to be played with by the devs (like any other balance change)

Arrys.7145:

Forzani.2584:

I agree with you Chrispy. Tweaks. That is all that is needed to make the Ranger legit. Look what happened to Warriors. Offhand sword added torment….increased passive healing and a 3 condition wipe on full bar of adrenaline.

Class went from laughing stock under powered to laughing stock over powered.

We all complain at times about GW2 but their balance is fairly close. A couple of small, well thought out changes is all that is needed.

Not a total redesign.

….best line of the week ….. The whole thing seems more like a corporate focus meeting rapid fire idea thread that’s just as effective as our rapid fire is now.

lol

As a sustain class our rapid fire should become like barrage/hunters call delayed damage airborn so I am already hitting with other skills or juking. A single target barrage basically. I need/want 2 layered damages in LB. Perceptual burst from the recipients side anyways.

And if we are pure sustain axe 5 shouldn’t lock down a skirmishers feet.

Whirling Defense should change completely. We do a cast time, then we have, a couple of Eagles flying at high speed around us, reflecting projectiles, dealing damage, etc, while we are able to continue running around using our other skills.

(Chrispy Ideas, part 1)
Changing Healing Skills and Elite Skills for more synergy

• The Purpose of this idea(proposal) is to make Healing Skills benefit more from traits, like the healing skills of other professions do. Our healing skills are some of the best in the game, yes, but, the inability to make them stronger through traits actually makes them weaker than other healing skills in the long run.

Changes and Benefits
- Heal as One and Rampage as One should be changed into Shout skills, so they can benefit from the following ::

• Shout Mastery - Reduce Cooldown. (make skills faster to access)
• Nature’s Voice - Regen and Swiftness. (makes skills less selfish and Ranger/Pet only)
• Superior Rune of the Soldier - Shouts remove a Condition. (More chances for condition removal, which the Ranger badly needs anyways)

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

- Troll Unguent should be changed into a Survival Skill, so it benefits from this ::

• Wilderness Knowledge - Reduced Cooldown. (Faster Access and more healing uptime)

Risks

• There is a possibility that healing skills would be too dependent on trait investment.
• After investing into traits, skills could be too powerful and unbalanced.

Discussion

• I had the idea for the ‘As One and healing spring skills, because those are the two skill types they most closely match. While shouts aren’t exactly in the best spot right now because of how pets work, I think those changes would go a long way.
• For Troll Unguent, I figured that making it a Wilderness survival skill made the most sense, but, its up for debate if anyone’s willing.

• This also ties directly into a future idea I will be posting that involves expanding the Wilderness Survival traits and Shout traits we have access to, to atleast 3 of each, (I will link this post since the two are related)

Allie Murdock.8152:

I realize that many classes have high burst right now, but our intent is to limit power creep as much as possible. Just because the Ranger’s damage is more spread out, doesn’t mean it does less damage than the burst of other classes. Does that make sense?

For example: One class could, in the span of 30 seconds, do 15k damage in say 5-10 seconds, but then their burst skills go on cooldown so they have to wait out the rest of the time before they can try again. A sustained class should be able to do that same amount of damage in that same amount of time, but the damage is more spread out (hence sustained). This can be better in certain situations, and allows for the sustained class to fill a hole in a team comp.

I’m not saying this is a perfect system or that it’s even fully functional in the game, I’m just trying to explain why doing burst shouldn’t necessarily be better than doing sustained damage. It depends on the situation.

We also know that some classes right now are better at burst than others, and those are things that we look to address in balance patches so there isn’t a surplus of any one class.

(I also read your other posts after this one)

Rangers have alot of sources of DoT (Damage Over Time). In one sitting, I can use Hunters Call (or Barrage) first, switch weapons, then lay down a bonfire, then my traps go off, and my pet is also attacking at the same time I am. That is Awesome!

But, we are in a bad spot right now, as you and everyone says.

• Physical DoT can be negated very easily by dodging, blocking, becoming invulnerable, (any physical DoT), or just moving out of my field of view (hunters call is especially bad with this).
• Condition DoT is also not very powerful in almost all cases (in PvE and WvW atleast) because of the extremely easy access to condition removal that exists, and that condition damage stacks of bleeding, poison, etc. has an upper limit.
• It doesn’t matter that those powerful counters exist on cooldown, because all those powerful counters are seperate. A Guardian can dodge, then block, then become invulnerable, then remove the conditions, then heals, and still has more than enough burst damage to just destroy me. I’m normally dead before I can even get 25% of his life bar down. (in PvP, I hear its a different story, but I only play WvW and PvE)

• If you want Rangers to be good at DoT, then we need to be able to overwhelm the enemy with it until they run out of options and have no choice but to run away, not just still bursting us down, and enduring whatever we throw at them, no matter what we throw at them.
• while it works sometimes (Hunter’s call and Traps with sharpened edges almost never fails me), it fails to be useful in almost every other case.
• 90% of the time, we don’t have what it takes to overwhelm the enemy with DoT because there is too much counterplay to it currently.

• I’m not saying give Rangers more Burst damage, and make them the same as every other class (infact, I would argue take all of it away (as in remove the damage increases on our signets and give us something closer to what would be expected out of a DoT class, something that would enhance our damage over time, instead of hindering it))
• What I am saying, Ranger needs alot of work, not just on the DoT part, but also on the Resilient part. We need to be able to react and bounce back after taking high damage, or getting poked with alot of conditions. While our heals are quite good at that, nothing else is right now.

(I appologize for the wall of text, as some of it may have been repeated already)
Edit – I like using Damage Over Time, and I don’t like using the word Sustain because our ‘sustain’ has sometimes much longer cooldown than burst skills do. It ends up making zero difference between the two terms when sustain isn’t actually sustain at all, its just spread out damage.

Yeah….after reading the CDI thread, its just plain out of control, and I would prefer the company of a seasick crocodile over trying to post my ideas in that mess….but I will anyways, as well as posting my ideas here, incase anyone wants to read them and discuss them, because in the other thread, they are very likely to get lost in a sea of other suggestions before you get the chance.

Changing Healing Skills and Elite Skills for more synergy

• The Purpose of this idea(proposal) is to make Healing Skills benefit more from traits, like the healing skills of other professions do. Our healing skills are some of the best in the game, yes, but, the inability to make them stronger through traits actually makes them weaker than other healing skills in the long run.

Changes and Benefits
- Heal as One and Rampage as One should be changed into Shout skills, so they can benefit from the following ::

• Shout Mastery - Reduce Cooldown. (make skills faster to access)
• Nature’s Voice - Regen and Swiftness. (makes skills less selfish and Ranger/Pet only)
• Superior Rune of the Soldier - Shouts remove a Condition. (More chances for condition removal, which the Ranger badly needs anyways)

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

- Troll Unguent should be changed into a Survival Skill, so it benefits from this ::

• Wilderness Knowledge - Reduced Cooldown. (Faster Access and more healing uptime)

Risks

• There is a possibility that healing skills would be too dependent on trait investment.
• After investing into traits, skills could be too powerful and unbalanced.

Discussion

• I had the idea for the ‘As One and healing spring skills, because those are the two skill types they most closely match. While shouts aren’t exactly in the best spot right now because of how pets work, I think those changes would go a long way.
• For Troll Unguent, I figured that making it a Wilderness survival skill made the most sense, but, its up for debate if anyone’s willing.

• This also ties directly into a future idea I will be posting that involves expanding the Wilderness Survival traits and Shout traits we have access to, to atleast 3 of each, (I will link this post since the two are related)

INCOMING WALL OF TEXT. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

That Thread doubled in size already, since about this time yesterday. Its starting to borderline on insanity, because as others have said,….most of those suggestions suck.

I’m not exactly a master at understanding the Ranger profession (I don’t do PvP, at all), but I do have enough of an understanding of it to see that many of those suggestions were made out of a desire to just make the Ranger do ‘!!MOAR DMG!!’ than actually improve the class.

Take for example the suggestion (thats been stated many times) that pets be stowed and the Ranger get a damage boost. The only thing I have to ask about is…Why? Why only a damage boost? Your survival depends on the pet just as must as your damage does. Its not just all about dealing damage. Guild Wars 2 is not that kind of game, even if Thieves and Warriors make it seem like that. It finally went in a different direction where your bonus should depend on which pet you have stowed, but, still a needlessly complex suggestion.

Then there is the problems that come with doing such a thing. Instead of making your strategy around two pets, you are making your strategy around 2 pets, and 2 aspects, making the profession entirely too complicated for most people, which will just make the perception of Rangers even worse, not better. There’s also literally dozens upon dozens of trait changes that need to be made just for this one thing. An Overhaul like this is not something we need to be thinking about right now.

There has been an interesting idea or two so far, such as making Poison a more defining characteristic of the Ranger (because the only things that define us right now is our pets and traps. Spirits don’t really count because warriors have better, untouchable spirits in the form of banners), and a suggestion here and there for passive pets that do party wide buffs and such like spirits and play no role in damage, but, that’s about it.

I have decided to not contribute to the thread, because almost all of my suggestions are just small tweaks and changes here and there, and the vast majority of posters on that thread want to change the Ranger into something its not, instead of making sure their heads are on solid ground still instead of in the clouds. And anyone who’s feet are still planted on earth are making no effort to read the thread to make sure they aren’t double posting ideas that have already been stated and addressed. Its going in circles right now, and has no focus. Anything I post there is going to be passed over and ignored. The whole thing seems more like a corporate focus meeting rapid fire idea thread that’s just as effective as our rapid fire is now.

My Suggestion?
To hell with the CDI thread…atleast until the Devs can get it under control. I’m going to keep posting here until the CDI finds some actual focus :::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ranger-Balance-PvP-WvW-PvE-PvX/page/14#post3684163

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Because he had known Ellen for years, and we’re just adventures who breeze through every once in a while? Because it was Ellen’s initiative that got us to do the heavy lifting, and that is precisely the kind of quality you’re looking for in a member of a ruling council? Because Ellen has worked hard all her life for the good of the city, and we pule like spoiled brats if we aren’t paid every time we lift a finger? Because we’re already second in command of the organization that invented the airship? Because only King Solomon would suggest cutting an airship into five parts? Take your pick.

By your king Solomon’s logic, there should only be one legendary weapon in the whole game of each type, not 5 million of them floating around. so….nope.

Ellen Kiel worked really hard, all the way until we got to this dungeon, because she did nothing, as I said. so….nope.

Its also the kind of quality that got Lions Arch destroyed apparently, because her inspiring words could do nothing to save the city. That, or she is lying. so….nope.

Magnus is making a political play that probably has nothing to do with Kiel anyways, so much as spreading his influence?…yeah, lets go with that one.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sigh…

“<Character name>,

The Aetherblade scoundrels have a base inside Lion’s Arch! I need deputies for a raid on their hideout. Consider yourself deputized. Head to the base of the waterfall at Diverse Ledges as soon as you can.

—Lionguard Inspector Ellen Kiel"

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Bash_mail

You were an acting deputy of the Lionguard. Why you accepted the role is your own business, but while raiding that base that was the part you were playing.

uhhh…..your point is? The players still did all the work. Why didn’t Magnus give us the Airship instead of someone, who did nothing to help for the entire dungeon? (well, actually, she pressed a button or two, and also magically knew where the Aetherblade Retreat was to begin with with no explanation to why.)

xev.9476:

It’d be nice if these Aspects would provide some sort of unique group buff to enhance ranger desirability in WvW. As it stands, the current pet mechanic is useless for GvGs, zerg busting, etc., because the pets die too quickly and their attacks are limited to single targets. If you’re still disinclined to give rangers access to decent AoE and burst, then to be competitive we at least need to provide worthwhile buffs.

That’s what spirits are for, though, I will admit they are just as useless in all the situations you mentioned because they die withing seconds of being summoned. Its nice to keep them similar to GW1, but, I think they should be redesigned to being nothing more than a visual effect when summoned. Even if the effects are changed (like in Mistsim’s idea from a few posts back), it woud still be an improvement and make Rangers more useful in a group.

(also, Frost Spirit and Spotter are both very valuable buffs in a group. The Ranger just needs more of that)

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

We were there on behalf of, and therefore as agents of, the Lionguard.

Actually, I was there on behalf of Logan Thackeray to bring Theo Ashford’s killer to justice. I could care less about a bunch of corrupt ex-pirates, so inept that they ignore all signs that their city is about to get attacked, then rely on us players (and the three orders) to defend their city when it does get attacked,…for like the third time in about a year.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Substance E.4852:

Norjena.5172:

Rifle/Pistol on rangers is a nogo!
They are a nature (magic) based class. Not a Pew Pew Laz0rgun hunt€r/sn!p€r whatever.

The charcoal, saltpeter, sulfur, iron, lead, and wood needed to make a functional gun all come from nature, just as the iron, charcoal, and wood of a great sword come from nature.

The nature argument is pointless when we don’t use a single weapon that doesn’t need to be processed and built by hand. Bows and swords don’t fall from trees nor spring from the ground, fully formed, like potatoes.

The thing is, those things when combined can do more damage to nature in a matter of minutes than a bow, greatsword, axe, sword, etc can do. If the Ranger is attuned to Nature, then he won’t ever use a gun, not when a bow can do it just as well, with minimal damage to the environment.

While I’ve agreed with that for a long time, and I still sort of do, Rangers are everything about that profession in one. They are Hunters, Marksmen, Druids, Wardens, Beastmasters, etc., all in one package. I don’t think it would be too out of place to see a Ranger be a little farther away from Nature, and be a little more focused on being a Marksman instead.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

How is that an inconsistency? First off, as has been mentioned before, that airship might not even belong to the Pact. However, even if it did, they literally have dozens of them, and no real immediate need or even use for more. Seeing as their whole ideal is bringing the military forces of Tyria together, why in the name of all Six Gods do you insist that they should fight over, or even begrudge, their closest non-order military allies keeping a single airship that they recovered at their own risk?

You mean, at Our Own Risk.

Finally read all the posts and got caught up!

Nike.2631:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, what if stowing the pet and having an aspect gave the Ranger some kind of aura that communicated to others they are in that “aspect”? Would it still feel like the pet was a part of you if them being stowed affected your physical appearance?

One way to simplify the range of mechanics required and FX workload would be to make Aspects based on pet families rather than individual pets.

Aspect of Arachnids
Aspect of Canines
Aspect of Devourers
Aspect of Drakes
Aspect of Felines
Aspect of Moas
Aspect of Porcines
Aspect of Raptors
Aspect of Ursines

And if stowing/Aspect are allowed underwater (not a given, actually), add~
Aspect of Armor Fish
Aspect of Cnidaria (jellyfish)
Aspect of Sharks

For I while I’ve been suggesting replacing the Skirmishing 5-point minor trait with what amounts to a universal aspect~

Lone Wolf: While your pet is stowed you gain a +25% bonus to Power and Condition Damage.

I like this, though I don’t fully agree with giving the Ranger just a power and Condition Damage boost.

In some cases in PvE, and sometimes in WvW (I don’t play PvP), the Pet is an essential part of my survival. Other times (dungeons and zergs, fighting Champions),…..its even useless for that.

It would be neat if that split focus the Ranger was originally designed for was still there in some way. What I mean by that is, what if our pet is stowed, and while in the Feline Aspect, we get a Damage and Critical Damage Boost….. well, that Warrior eyeing me over there can see that visual aspect, so, he suddenly makes a beeline for me.

Before he gets there, I switch over to the Bear Aspect, and I get a Toughness and Vitality boost instead. That Warrior suddenly can’t kill me as easily, though depending on the gear stats I have(zerker for example), I’ll still fall pretty quickly. While I endure his hits for a time wasting his skills, pet switch recharges, and I switch back to the Feline Aspect to land a nice big Maul, bringing him down.

This way, all playstyles are still considered, and some new ones might even open up depending on the stat bonus.

Erukk.1408:

Chrispy.5641:

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

Really? Because what you just described yourself purposefully doing to other people, could be considered equally insulting. Especially if you come back and reply with something like, “Oh, I guess you don’t understand sarcasm.” Which is implying another insult towards the person.

I said that comment for a reason, because, while I had my suspicions, it all but confirms that people were insulted by this (go on ahead and say you werent. The fact that you had to post about it means you were bothered by it in some way.) :::

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

In what way is that directed towards you, and are you and Konig so sensitive, that you were really insulted by me bringing up an old issue? (Konig des todes, were you so bothered by it that you really had to talk about an entire group of people as being narcissistic and having self-esteem issues? Not that I really felt anything from it or cared to begin with, because, hey, I’m an American! Vanity and Narcissism is part of our culture!)

I just still fail to see how that comment, sarcasm or not, joke or not, old argument or not, Vanity or not, Narcissism or not, Self-esteem issues or not, somehow related to Spec Ops: The Line or not, was so insulting to you. (now, I could have just said “Hey, it was a joke, don’t feel so hurt about it!”, but I wouldn’t have learned anything about the people who posted in this thread, so thanks for that!)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.

Which is yet another inconsistency. Maybe Magnus held the Pact at gunpoint, knowing they were weakened after fighting an Elder Dragon, and wouldn’t argue about losing one of their airships to the future reindeer….I mean…political games.

Substance E.4852:

Chrispy.5641:

Forzani.2584:

Thanks for that. It helps all of us to understand that our opinions are “invalid”

Glad I could help! Maybe next time, you can come up with a better argument than “Its clunky!”, becuase by that logic, every skill in the game with a cast time is "clunky’

Also, bad opinions, and bad arguments are two totally different things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how good or bad. But, if your argument sucks, I am going to say something!

lol, yes, like the argument that the pet having stealth and protection is so powerful that it warrants a nerf to get rid of the cast time? Will we suddenly become OP if it’s an instant? Will that 1 less second of casting catapult the regen-tank to god-like status? Will the pet become too OP? Will all the non-existent people who kill the pet first rage quit forever because it has 1 second less to wait for protection and stealth?

There needs to be a real, clear consequence to buffing it with no counter, not just some vague claim that it’s “already good”.

The problem you need to look at is, what if all skills were suddenly instant?

(example)Hey, I want Heal as One to be instant cast. Don’t mind that I can stack that healing to over 10,000 using several methods. Its not like giving you a telegraph that I’m about to use a massive heal skill means anything. Its not going to suddenly make me more powerful (despite the extremely high healing I get for no risk at all).

Kalavier.1097:

edit2: OH YEAH. You know, you should freaking talk to the npcs around the Marionette wreckage. The ones that directly state YOU HELPED BRING THIS DOWN. Or Vorpp/Marjory/Kasmeer, who state that if YOU HADN’T HELP FIGURE IT OUT/INPUTTED, They wouldn’t have been able to respond so quick.

Yeah, I have. Its kind of awesome, the recognition. But, I still don’t have any cool souvenirs for many of these events, which was mostly the point.

Kalavier.1097:

Your character helps out a lot, and gets credit all throughout the Personal story (Trahearne NEVER steals credit or glory from you), and even in Living story they’ve started to give credit to the player.

And? I still want an Airship! I’ll say again,….Thats kind of what my half serious (all sarcasm), comment was for.

Eluveitie.1290:

Have YOU played the rest of the game? It gives us credit all the time for what is done. We call the shots in a lot of things. People celebrate us. Even now on the living story, we’re flattered with recognition everywhere.

A wide range of players just simply can’t tolerate sharing the glory and recognition with others. No, they must be THE one and only.

Besides, it’s an MMO, you can’t expect the experience you would get from a single-player game that it’s focused on the main character.

So? Same as before. I still want an Airship, and I still say that since Ellen Kiel did zero things to help us capture that airship, she shouldn’t even be the owner to begin with. Any player who completed the dungeon should have an Airship to call their own instead. (Seriously, what did she do to deserve that Airship, other than a convient plot device to make her a captain of her own ship so she could grab the open spot on the Captain’s Council?)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

….snip…

Now we get to you. I have long said that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but…

…

wow….Just,….wow!

I appologize for assuming that what Spec Ops: The Line forces you to do, bothered you in some way (it seemed like you were implying that the message bothered you and mirrored what I was doing or something), but, beyond that, You don’t even deserve a response from me, nor should you have any respect from me anymore.

I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.

Interesting direction this conversation this has went in. I originally made that short comment as an act of sarcasm. Sarcasm is meant to be a joke, especially because many people don’t understand what sarcasm is.

Since I made that sarcastic remark, which none of you were able to see, so far, I have been accused not once, but twice of having mental health issues, with no supporting evidence other than the fact that I have a different point of view than you do (And I thought you were better than that Konig, but since my original remark irked you so much that you would stoop to such a level, I will get to you shortly)

But first….

Kalavier.1097:

And note how the home instance (besides NPCs) displays NONE of the items in the personal story tab. You don’t have a LA banner hanging in your house, or Apatia’s axe on a desk.

edit: Oh, and what would the Norn do then, or the Sylvari? You know, the Norn home instance takes place ENTIRELY indoors, and the Sylvari is at the bottom level of the grove/Pale tree. Neither could see an Airship, much less have one around. And after the attack on Jubilee having an Aetherblade airship floating above Salma district would get you serious flack.

And that’s several opportunities that Anet failed to take advantage of. Instead of the Home Instance being like the Hall of Monuments (where you can show off your accomplishments to other players, or just look at them yourself to remind you of what your character has done), the home instance is a barren wasteland that doesn’t even recognize the player’s existence aside from very few dialogue options, and maybe a few ore nodes depending on what you’ve done in the game or bought from the gem store.

Kalavier.1097:

I suppose everybody would know the name/history of a USA Army general comes walking through town right? Hell, not many living story npcs comment on the “Pact commander” status besides one in Molten Alliance, and I’m fairly sure that’s the HEAD of the Iron legion. Hell, in terms of LA we might be LESS known then Kiel. The Lionguard would know of us, but we are that person who retook claw island, then left to fight the Risen and didn’t stick around and help rebuild the fort.

Actually, everyone in America, and lots more people across the world knows who General David Petraeus was even before the controversy surrounding him in 2012, and have known who he was since he went before Congress in the mid 2000’s over the Troop Surge.

Immediately following any war, for perhaps a decade afterwards, everyone knows the names of the Generals that participated, and anyone else who did ‘heroic’ stuff. Following WWI, every country in the world who participated knew who John J. Pershing was.

Kalavier.1097:

Still, Real life comparison. If raiding a criminal hideout, would they just let a USA Army officer drive off with a vehicle parked inside? Nope. They’d keep it for investigation or trial. Hell, going “PACT COMMANDER, GIMME AIRSHIP” Would result in a "Oh, a Pact commander, just go down to Fort Trinity and claim one of the airships IN THE PACT. We’ll be taking this one for the Lionguard.

yeah, us Americans totally didn’t take over Saddam’s Palace, and many other places, and then use it and the equipment there (that wasn’t worthless to the most advanced military in the world) as a base of operations for several years….(yeah, we totally did!) The reason why we never used Iraqi tanks or jets, was because they were all inferior, and we destroyed almost all of them by the time ground troops got there.

Why do you have the need to mention USA? Its not like we are the shining beacon of honesty and selflessness across the land (they passed out bronze star awards like it was candy during the entire occupation,…for doing almost nothing. I know from experience!)

Eluveitie.1290:

You seem to play games to be important and the center of attention. If you can’t tolerate following a story without taking all the glory, then this game is simply not for you.

I play games to take down warlords, keep balance, kill evil clowns, and save the world, even multiple realities at once from certain destruction by some dark force. I like doing things you can’t normally do in reality unless you suffer from schizophrenia. I don’t play a game to be a forgotten cog in a machine.

This game IS for me…., for 7/8th of the personal story (have you played that, or are you simply ignoring that to try to make your point?), then suddenly the entire story changes focus and the players are pretty much forgotten. I have hopes that eventually, players will take somewhat of a focus again instead of playing second fiddle to NPC’s, that don’t do anything outside of background actions you only hear about, needless exposition, and short stories posted online.

Kalavier.1097:

Posting this because it’s fitting. My words, from another topic.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Maybe keep it in my home instance in Divinity’s Reach until I need it. Even just making it float above that area would have been enough, and would have been an awesome visual proof that I raided the Aetherblade Retreat. (you missed a chance on this one Anet…)

Kalavier.1097:

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

I (and many other players) are Pact Commanders. We aren’t just some random adventurers! We’d definitely be more well known at that point in time than the Lionguard’s puppet Kiel, thats for sure.

Eluveitie.1290:

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

This logic is getting old and bothersome to read.

We’re not the protagonists in Tyria. We’ve certain degree of importance and recognition, but that’s about it.

I’m going to quote another game here, that pretty much sums up who we are in Tyria:

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good. Keep someone else safe. Help someone else do what they were put here to do.

A good roadie stays out of the spot light. If he’s doing his job right you don’t even know he’s there. Once in awhile he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there, or what he did, he’s gone."

Yeah, uh….This is a poorly thought out joke right? I don’t play video games to be the wingman, to play second fiddle, or to stand just to the side of the spotlight while some random NPC character takes all the glory because the writers say so. Now, if you want to play a video game to do all that, to pay 60 bucks just to play supporting character, you go on ahead.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.

I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.

And of what consequence does that message have for me? (Without spoiling the game, since everyone should play it)…It is an interesting message to be sure, but since the message is in a game that pretty much forces me to take certain actions, actions that are needed to be taken in order to get the message across, there is nothing for me to feel bad about, or care. Spec Ops gets the message wrong because its forced on you.

Bravely Default, has a similar message about someone’s inconsequential sense of righteousness. There is a line spoken towards the end that might have no meaning at all, or it will become vastly more powerful depending on the the optional stuff you do through the game. Its not the exact same message, and you could argue that its way different, but it had more impact because it wasn’t forced on you.

Konig, You need a different game to tell me to go play, without a forced message. If you really felt bad after playing a game, its because the game forced you, and you let your emotions fall slave to a couple lines of code. That’s much worse.

Forzani.2584:

Thanks for that. It helps all of us to understand that our opinions are “invalid”

Glad I could help! Maybe next time, you can come up with a better argument than “Its clunky!”, becuase by that logic, every skill in the game with a cast time is "clunky’

Also, bad opinions, and bad arguments are two totally different things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how good or bad. But, if your argument sucks, I am going to say something!