Guild Wars 2

It is a bit of a bummer that a lot of people will feel “forced” into using them for one reason or another. I may try them just to see what happens, but I feel like the cost is too high, whether it be giving up too much crit/burst on my front-line set or too much sustain on my support/bunker set.

Don’t know if I can justify using this on any of my builds… the opportunity cost is too high for my taste. May at least try it though. Either way, definitely a good option for those who put a premium on base movement speed.

Edit

Patch hit, no longer able to do Liadri. Hope as many of you got your kills as possible.

I never once felt that way.

Already have Sunrise. Will be doing a sword and focus first. Probably focus first since sword and mace get swapped around a lot for me. And then I’ll need to do a staff and hammer and shield.. Then again, maybe I’ll do staff first since I do a LOT of group play lately.

Argh, decisions!

That’s why I just ran melee, heh.

I played a Retribution Paladin for 5 years. I’m used to not having a snare.

That isn’t to say I wouldn’t appreciate one, though. :P

Of course, I’m only really interested in an actual female version considering how broken it was/would be if they just copy-pasted the male version back onto the females. :l

I hope the cat is hypo-allergenic.

:P

It seems like the louder players really come out swinging in these types of threads. Particularly the negative ones.

The whole no-shoulder thing… it’s driving me a little crazy, especially since males have them at least. I know there was a brief period where the male model was copy-and-pasted over, and that didn’t work from what I’ve read/screenshots I’ve seen, but… yeah.

Please look into this?

Guardians are the beginning. Guardians are the end. ALL HAIL GUARDIANS!

I’m under the impression that AH is used primarily for front-lining and offensive-based Guardians in group situations where they can reliably count on short-duration boon spam on allies to sustain themselves during spikes. By its nature, Healway doesn’t have as much room for traiting/gearing offensively, but its contribution group sustain is a lot more consistent and powerful. It also transitions more easily into solo and 4-or-fewer-person roaming because it doesn’t rely on allies being in range for sustainability.

AH contributes in its own way besides just having more damage potential in that you’re granting short-duration Might on crit to allies and you can trait for causing Vulernability on Blind with blind-on-VoJ, usually running Staff and either GS or Hammer. VoJ spam AH/EM builds are pretty popular lately, from what I’ve seen.

Could pretty much write a book about the applications and pros and cons of each, but I’ll save it for when I’ve got more experience with AH. For now I’ll just make a presumption that AH is more suited for front-line/offensive play (not that Healway isn’t capable, it just has less damage while providing more group sustain) and HW is more for, well… support, whether it be front-line or back-line support.

What is this, I don’t even..

I’ll preface this with the fact that I really don’t care what other players’ opinions are of whether professions other than the Warrior are better at certain things than the Guardian. This OP asked about Warriors and Guardians and that is what I’m going to respond to.

Guardians are obviously a good choice for group and zerg support. If you’re looking to do decent damage while supporting the group, there are a few AH builds that utilize Staff + Greatsword or similar in order to spam blinds/vulnerability/might via VoJ spam and Greatsword #3. I imagine a typical gear setup would include Knight’s armor with Soldier runes. Might be something worth looking into.

If you don’t actually care THAT much about damage, you can go with a Knight’s/Cleric’s, PTV/Cleric’s, or even Cleric’s/Cleric’s mix. 0/0/10/30/30 with triple shouts or double + a consecration such as Sanctuary, Hallowed Ground, or WoR. It’ll give you plenty of condition removal, healing, and boon application to spam all over your group, and just enough damage to contribute to enemy group wipes, depending on your weapon set choices (Staff being at least one of them).

As far as solo roaming goes, Guardians are perfectly capable of engaging and defeating 1-2 (or more, depending on your build and theirs) players of similar skill in WvW. There are people who will argue against Guardian viability in solo roaming based entirely on the virtue of how “easy” we can be to kite or get away from. It isn’t entirely untrue, but it’s silly to think we aren’t capable of staying on target with practice and the right weapons. Mobility in combat is practically an art after a certain point — you can always improve your ability to stay on target or disengage, but you’ll probably never perfect it as a Guardian. That said, our lack of snares or a movement speed signet (or similar) aren’t gamebreaking for us. Just a little annoying.

The only professions you’ll probably be hopeless to catch if they decide they want to leave the fight are Warriors with Greatswords, S/D Thieves, and D/D Eles. Even then, you can probably lock them down if you happen to be running JI and/or any combination of Hammer, Scepter, or Greatsword. Acceptable drawbacks considering how durable we can be in a fight and how valuable we are for group sustain and output (via boons and heals).

I’m under the impression that Warriors tend to have more damage potential than Guardians in most cases. More access to Might and Fury when alone with whatever weapons they wish to use (whereas our high-stacking ability is tied to Staff). They’re also able to run away really efficiently with Greatsword and Sword/Shield. Basically, they’ve got us beat in mobility and damage in the majority of cases, but I feel as though they lack a lot of the utility and sustainability that we have access to. I’ve never played one, I’ve just never seen one outperform a Guardian of similar skill when roaming alone. I’m sure they’re great when practiced with and under favorable circumstances (what profession isn’t?), but in a good 3,000 hours of almost entirely WvW play on my Guardian, I’ve never seen a Warrior do what a Guardian can in 1vX. That said, it depends a lot on their builds, their opponents’ builds, and ability to use the terrain to their advantage (then there are the psychological factors — are they tired, etc?) I might just not be seeing it.

Group play is a different thing entirely.

Guardians and Warriors fill similar roles in very different ways when it comes to group play. Both are capable of dealing damage, soaking it for teammates, and of dishing out heals and boons. Guardians have more access to Protection, Regen, and Retaliation. Warriors have more access Fury and Swiftness. They can also grant area Vigor pretty consistently with Warhorn, which is pretty standard for group play. Both professions have the ability to stack large amounts of Might through different means. Warriors have more access to snares such as Cripple and Immobilize, but they don’t get spammable AoE heals via Selfless Daring (although they can trait for damage on dodge roll) or a nearly spammable blast finisher like we do with Hammer #2.

If I had to put it simply: Guardians have more sustain for themselves and for the group. Warriors provide more offensive utility and a Warbanner. Otherwise, they’re both capable of filling pretty much the same roles, just in really different ways.

Sorry if this isn’t what you were looking for, OP. Really just started rambling after a bit.

It’s impossible to have both PoV and AR and still be able to pick up AH. I just greatly prefer PoV and AR over AH.

Whether the passives or the actives are “better” depends on how you’re traited and what the situation is. In most builds you’ll see these days, popping Justice will at least do something besides just cause burning, whether it be AoE blind/vulnerability or area Might, or both. Add that to a 20-30% reduced cooldown and the fact that it also gives you Retaliation with 15 in Virtues, and by most bets VoJ becomes better activated on cooldown than just letting it sit.

Absolute Resolution buffs Resolve’s passive heal by 25%, which really adds up when you’re stacking Healing Power. AR also affects Battle Presence, so your allies are getting healed for more if you decide to run that instead of PoV. Obviously, it also gives the activation effect a triple condition removal. So, Resolve is very strong when activated with 20 in Virtues and some HP to back it up, especially considering the active heal scales at 0.75 per HP.

Not to say you should just spam Resolve unless it’s an emergency… same thing with VoC. What makes it so strong with 30 in Virtues is the clutch stability (3 seconds base, affected by boon duration) and the fact that it can be made to proc every 30 seconds instead of every 40. Assuming the activation isn’t needed, you’re getting 6 Aegis over the course of a 3-minute fight as opposed to 4. Doesn’t seem like a very big deal, but it does help. I’ve been saved at crucial enough moments that it led to a total comeback because of that proc.

I can’t see a concrete connection between Ritualists and Guardians, nor do I remember ArenaNet saying anything about anything but Monks and Paragons when introducing the Guardian. I mean… actually, yeah, I can’t really think of anything besides spirit weapons.

I also forgot to mention that all magic used by the mortals of Tyria (who would otherwise have no magical abilities) is channeled through the bloodstones. Most of ours comes from the Restoration stone.

1. Guardians are basically half-and-half Monk and Paragon. They use heavy armor like Paragons and make heavy use of shouts (or at least have the ability to) to channel their magic. Monks channeled healing, protection, and smiting magic through their prayers.

2. Guardian power comes from faith. What that faith is placed in doesn’t really matter — whether it be in the Human gods or in a warband, as may be the case for Charr Guardians. All that matters is that it’s strong enough to act as a source of power for our magic.

3. All of our weapons are honestly pretty good/useful. It just depends on what you’re doing. If anything is “lacking” in our arsenal, it’d be either Sword or Scepter, and not by much.

4. I don’t think it’s possible to really say how many “types” there are. I basically look at it this way: Bunker, DPS, or Support. I guess Hybrid is a thing too.

5. AH builds are easily the most used currently. They’re simply and easy to use.

I’m sure it wouldn’t be difficult for me to throw a history together for my Guardian, especially considering how into GW1 I was and how interesting Tyria’s lore is, but I just haven’t bothered. Not a big RP-type.

Azunai.5974:

I really loved the gameplay video but I was kind of lost with the discussion video as I am a deaf person. I don’t wanna be a burden but could you consider adding subtitles or at least some notes to go along with what you’re saying? That way, deaf players such as I would fully appreciate your thoughts in your videos.

Anyway, thanks again for an exciting take on the profession!

I will definitely keep you guys in mind in the future. :> I hope the OP here provides enough information to make up for it for now.

Pass. ZD is a powerful burst skill and defense against ranged attacks as long as you use it correctly. If they want to ADD something to it, sure.

Don’t worry guys! The more we complain, the more funds and man hours they’ll have available to allocate to WvW design and programming!

I’d be lying if I said I didn’t agree completely. I’m certainly not the best player in the world, but if I’m not playing a high-burst setup with JI to get the jump on them, condi-spam engineers (in WvW, not sPvP) are absolutely obliterating me because I simply can’t keep up with the re-application.

Necros… I think I can handle with most setups, but the ability to re-apply conditions so easily and frequently for several professions (particularly Necros, Engis, and Mesmers at first thought) is an extreme bummer in the current state of things.

ANet doing it right.

Wow, I forgot consumables are a thing. That elemental does hit pretty hard…

Certainly not the first time I’ve heard those sentiments about its viability in solo play, nor do I have any trouble understanding them. That said, I simply stand by my experiences and do what I can to showcase what can be done with the build with a lot of practice.

My dreaded double-post. :< However! Already nearly 200 subs on the new channel. :> Several new videos up since the Healway video was re-posted, and more to come! I’m trying to put together some ideas for weekly content at the moment. Suggestions?!

If I have to deal with a Norn with an extra 20-30 seconds of Leopard form, I think I’ll cry.

That being precisely why I never suggest that people try to play in groups with S/F and that they (if possible) trade GS out for a different set. Quite the opposite.

The only thing that was wrong with the post was assuming that one can’t win fights or stand one’s ground against competent players (or groups of them) with the build, at least to enough of an extent to be productive via delaying reinforcements, delaying caps of or all-together saving camps, or something as simple as saving some allied pugs.

It works, but I typically suggest that people just run Knight’s or Zerker’s in PvE anyway. Focusing on clear speed is usually a lot more efficient once you’re used to the game, though I understand people preferring a different play style.

I respect and appreciate your opinions.

Carpboy.7145:

Hey Chris! Just watched both your videos. Wow. Thats all i have to say SOOO excited to try this tonight! I do have 2 questions though. In the roaming vid you killed people quite quickly IMO. Idk how with you managed that with almost no DPS stats except power. Also my main Q, what are your thoughts on a 0 0 30 20 20 build? Using same gear, traits, everything except the 30 in valor for AH? Just watching your video i saw all those boons on your bar and thought with all the HP AH could heal for a lot.

Glad you enjoyed them. :> And if you did that, you’d lose Pure of Voice and your clutch stability via Indomitable Courage. You’d have to get pretty creative with your condition removal and hope that you don’t need a clutch stability anytime.

The strength of this build’s boons is that they last a really long time, as opposed to being applied constantly.

Whether or not he COULD run something he doesn’t want to in order to join a specialized group to clear something faster when he doesn’t care about doing that is irrelevant to his enjoyment of the game and its content. That is what matters to the individual player.

Good luck, have fun. May all of your Pokeballs catch their marks.

lolled anyway.

/15

Speed clears are meant to be fast. The faster the bosses die, the faster the run. Therefore it will never change. If someone isn’t interested in running zerker all the time, they just have to look for non-SC. That’s what I do.

The obvious solution is staff, which you’re already doing. You can also swap in GS and Sword for the leaps and teleports while moving across the map.

In my opinion, the scaling is fine for most of our abilities. If you’re running enough healing power, the combined effect of all of our different heals (be they passive or active) sort of eclipses the low scaling of each individual heal.

Tarsius.3170:

I don’t think we’ll see blanket buffs because it would make certain builds much too strong

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

…

Crapgame.6519:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Well when you put it that way, sure.

Lol. I like the honesty.

:P I don’t often take full Melandru + Lemongrass into consideration because it’s so extreme. I know it’s popular with people in the current condition-heavy meta though.

Yeah, it gets a little risky to go below 1,200. I had experimented with 700-1000 at one point and didn’t like it pre-Ascended gear and within my first 600 or so hours of play time. I’m well past 2,000 hours on my Guardian now though, so my comfort zone is just a bit larger. I hope you’re able to find a good balance of damage regardless.

Lemme know if you come up with anything. I’m always trying to push more DPS myself.

What are you talking about?

Why would you need to run away?

Well when you put it that way, sure.

nightzirch.3126:

Edit
First try. BAM! Liadri down. Cant believe it was “that easy”. Makes me think this fight has alot to do what kind of build you’re using.

Grats! Yeah, the build is a big thing. Need to be able to do enough damage but also have the right amount of sustain/condition removal to survive in P2.

akamon.2769:

1) where is 8 orb videooooo!?? lol XDDD

First clip is my first kill, second is my cleaner second. :>

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

I know the OP didn’t ask how to kill said Guardian, but: boon removal/stealing and overwhelming condition spam.

That works in PvP, the OP was talking about WvW.

Even in WvW, a competent S/D thief will kill a Healway guardian of equal or lesser skill. I haven’t personally died to one yet, but I’ve been given close enough calls to know that it’s completely possible for a competent boon-steal spammer to kill a boon-reliant build.

The condition spam might not be quite as viable for a Thief, so I probably should have just left that out. However, I’ve heard enough stories to know that Necros are a big problem for a lot of boon-heavy Guardians in WvW as well.

Though to be fair, I haven’t been out roaming in weeks.

I personally run at a little over 1,200 Healing Power, but I can imagine 900 and up working just fine as long as you’re able to replace those 300 points with enough damage to make it worth it. I feel like anything can work as long as you practice with it enough, though.

Want to counter a Guardian? Run S/D like every other Thief.

If they need to do anything, it’s introduce a color-blind assist mode like every other modern MMO.

I know the OP didn’t ask how to kill said Guardian, but: boon removal/stealing and overwhelming condition spam.

This is a video explaining how I killed Liadri and it includes some tips that may even be helpful to non-Guardians. Hopefully at least someone finds it useful. :>

For reference, I’ve got about 16 kills. 3 8-orbs, 2 burning gambits.

Please don’t nerf her (I mean, maybe fix the obstruction on the rifts, but that’s it). She’s perfectly fine the way she is.

This game needs things for players that can handle it. So far, this and Lupi solo are the only options. People are going to complain, and those people will always be louder than the people who appreciate these things. It’s a sad reality, but it’s true. We need content like this. I’m not interested in playing another WoW where content gets nerfed into oblivion because some sect of players simply can’t wrap their heads around it.

This is not meant as a direct insult to any players who are having trouble with this fight. It’s a matter of practice and adaptation. Just because some players would rather have the fight nerfed than spend some time practicing or learning to adapt doesn’t mean that the interests of those who are (and greatly enjoy being challenged) should be swept under the rug. Liadri may not be doable for 100% of the player base. That should be okay.

Casual player? That’s okay. 90% of the game is relatively catered to you. Let the last 10% be something that more hardcore players can actually appreciate without having to crank up a difficulty scale to 50+.

Edit: Not wishing to turn down your graphics/save up to upgrade your system even slightly beyond minimum requirements for gameplay is hardly an excuse for why something should be nerfed. I’m sorry if that offends someone, but it’s true.

“I don’t want to train, so the requirements to compete in the Olympic games should be made more lenient.”

I’m up to 3 8-orb kills, 16 total. Hopefully this little guide video will help someone.