Arah P1 is not soloable by any class.
Arah P2 is doable.
Arah P3 is not soloable by any class other than mesmer , necro, or thief. (corrupted light)
In terms of Lupi kill times, it’s mesmer/warrior duking it out at the top followed closely by guardian. All are around 5 minutes. Fastest thief is 8 min. Not sure about other classes.
Thieves are awesome for arah, especially pugs because you can help everyone skip the content, not just blast through it on a warrior leaving everyone else to deal with the aggro/poison clouds. Some of the top guilds have run arah very quickly with a thief in their group.
In terms of the content itself being “easier”, well warriors win hands down. The extra HP alone makes lupi a lot easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPSbpONmjjE this isnt even the fastest ive seen, a quick youtube search should pull up one thats about 5:50 but im lazy go do it yourself
you get what you put in, more effort = more damage, and sacrifice cleave? how so? sword has cleave and it outdamages warriors axe/x, and if you even know the basics of speed runs you’d know warriors are closer to the bottom of the dps chart than they are to the top
:D personally, I rolled a guard, even up-leveled (from 37 to 80, blue/green armor around lvl 35) in WvW, he feels (maybe a psychological thing) as durable if not a bit more durable then an 80 thief in soldier/knight armor (exotic). Eh… give up on thieves… enjoy guards and warriors.
early on in the game warriors were typically the highest dps, not because they actually had the highest but because people hadn’t figured out the best way to play other classes, and if you go back and look the fastest cof p1 speed runs typically only had 2 wars in them
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI this was and still is one of the fastest ever recorded, notice the party only has 1 war but 2 thieves
edit2: that was recorded before the insane damage of fgs was “discovered”, it may not be that fast once you start stacking eles
Right, and the vast “majority” (god i already see this word being picked on) ran with 4 warriors and a mesmer. Why? It was fast, and it was easy to achieve that good (fast) speed. It’s back to skill:reward trade off…
Also, how’s your video showing that warriors are “bottom of the dps chart”, if anything it’s supporting it… look both groups had at least 2 warriors.
im the first to admit 4 war/1 mes is an easy setup, thats why is was so popular with pugs, its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief and maybe you should view the video i linked again, 1 war (bannermule) and a ranger which considerably lowers party damage, even with frost spirit (spotter is trash)
you get what you put in, more effort = more damage, and sacrifice cleave? how so? sword has cleave and it outdamages warriors axe/x, and if you even know the basics of speed runs you’d know warriors are closer to the bottom of the dps chart than they are to the top
:D personally, I rolled a guard, even up-leveled (from 37 to 80, blue/green armor around lvl 35) in WvW, he feels (maybe a psychological thing) as durable if not a bit more durable then an 80 thief in soldier/knight armor (exotic). Eh… give up on thieves… enjoy guards and warriors.
early on in the game warriors were typically the highest dps, not because they actually had the highest but because people hadn’t figured out the best way to play other classes, and if you go back and look the fastest cof p1 speed runs typically only had 2 wars in them
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI this was and still is one of the fastest ever recorded, notice the party only has 1 war but 2 thieves
edit2: that was recorded before the insane damage of fgs was “discovered”, it may not be that fast once you start stacking eles
]in case you didnt notice we were talking about pve with full pve buffs that arent achievable in a zerg environment or are at least incredibly rare in a zerg environment
I was talking about a PvE Zerg eg. champ. Highest dmg i’ve seen pistol whip hit was probably for around 18k.
I suppose your using 25 Power stacks, Sigils of slaying, potions and food/oils to achieve this kind of dmg?
i said max (or close to max) buffs which insinuates all of this + warrior banners, might/vuln
im just going to go ahead and assume your running full soldiers by those numbers, and thief sword AA with average amount of might/vuln is around 8/8/13k, probably closer to 10/10/16k
Please tell me where your getting those numbers from. My Pistol Whip let alone AA on my thief rarely hits 16k in zergs. Am i missing some sort of super buff that doubles my dmg? This is in full serkers btw.
in case you didnt notice we were talking about pve with full pve buffs that arent achievable in a zerg environment or are at least incredibly rare in a zerg environment
my AA sword never hit 10/10/16k where and how u manage to do so. usually it does 2/2/4k when crit with 3200 power and 50% crit chance and 70% crit dmg.
were you hitting uplvl?
also like Vincet said warrior can do more dmg sometime but their Sdps is lower than the thief but they have better defenses like stunbreak and armor as they suppose to take the hit while thief meant to dodge/evade/stealth the dmg or they die
You dont have 3200 power, you have 3200 attack which has no effect on your damage. And you mentioned your problem in your question, 50% crit chance is terrible, there is no excuse for not having 100%. And 70% crit damage? You should have a minimum of 100% + base 50%. Honestly, that probably isn’t even the max, I’m not taking advantage of slaying potions or slaying sigils with those numbers.
edit: how did you even achieve 2/2/4? i was just mapping on my newest thief in blazeridge steppes and im hitting higher than that downscaled to level 51
I will take your word for that seeing as how I hate speed runs and speed runners with a passion. However, from what I have seen on both of my toons, sword auto has critted up to 8k (most powerful of the set) although that doesn’t happen all of the time while my warrior has managed to crit up to 10k with Kill shot and 8k with eviscerate with other skills hitting up to 6k.
Now I can chain these in rapid succession and still keep a high amount of adrenaline so it’ll be difficult for me to really accept that.
im just going to go ahead and assume your running full soldiers by those numbers, and thief sword AA with average amount of might/vuln is around 8/8/13k, probably closer to 10/10/16k
My warrior is undergeared and still does more damage than my thief who has a constant 2300 power and equal crit damage.
My warrior also has 3k more HP than my thief however my thief is in full valk with full wurm runes while my warrior is in pure berzerker gear and 30 in tactics.
Just want everyone to know.
this is pretty good, full valk + wurm runes? this tells me your also running a suboptimal build and you wonder why your warrior outdamages your thief… try running a proper build with full berserkers + scholar runes and youll easily double a max buffed warriors damage
Maybe in a couple seconds but not much longer. But then I would have to sacrifice cleave, about half of my hp and the mindlessness of s/x in order to outdps something that isn’t putting much effort to achieve the same effect. Why should I bother with my thief when warriors are the clear winner in this game of numbers?
you get what you put in, more effort = more damage, and sacrifice cleave? how so? sword has cleave and it outdamages warriors axe/x, and if you even know the basics of speed runs you’d know warriors are closer to the bottom of the dps chart than they are to the top
My warrior is undergeared and still does more damage than my thief who has a constant 2300 power and equal crit damage.
My warrior also has 3k more HP than my thief however my thief is in full valk with full wurm runes while my warrior is in pure berzerker gear and 30 in tactics.
Just want everyone to know.
this is pretty good, full valk + wurm runes? this tells me your also running a suboptimal build and you wonder why your warrior outdamages your thief… try running a proper build with full berserkers + scholar runes and youll easily double a max buffed warriors damage
Thief is very punishing for error, but rewarding when encounters are played correctly.
This is kind of the entire point of peoples meh on thieves.
I’m almost exhausted after doing a run on my thief compared to some other classes I have.
I think that’s true, Fletch. It’s the both the best and most difficult thing about the class — it’s not an easy-mode profession that’s for sure. It’s also due to the fact that a lot of people go “full berserker” and then cry when their glass cannon build goes down on the first big hit.
thats player error, not build or armor problems, its very easy to survive in full zerker with a glass build if you know where the dodge button is
That’s much like saying gear doesn’t make a difference, which I would categorically reject — obviously gear does make a difference, and spec’ing for more survivability is obviously going to help people live longer than if they spec full berzerker.
apparently you misunderstood, theres no point to bring any defensive stats because 90% of damage in this game can be avoided and those stats are wasted
now as for using defensive gear to survive, why? thief brings 2 things to the party, lots of stealth and extreme damage (were #2 only because ele has fgs), so why would you sacrifice close to 66% (random ballpark here but its fairly close if you consider 100% crit chance and crit damage) of your damage, now since your dps is now below a zerker necro why would people want you in the party?
I don’t think that I misunderstand at all, I just disagree.
It depends on what you use for mobility and avoidance. In PvE, I don’t trait into Acrobatics at all, for example, so I opt instead to go heavier into damage lines and counterbalance that by taking some survivability through gear. I’m not saying people shouldn’t trait into Acrobatics as a rule, I just don’t personally because in PvE I find it more enjoyable to go other routes.
I find the wholesale “full zerker” statement that people shout around to be a little ignorant, to be honest, because you can use the stats on gear to balance out the choices that you make in your traits. I agree though that for the thief at the moment, power/crit is the way to go as conditions are so broken in PvE boss fights, making it essentially a useless setup (unfortunately).
why would you need acrobatics for survivability? you have a massive amount of evades and why are you worried about mobility? stack in corner doesnt require mobility, and why do you assume im using acrobatics, ive always ran 25/30/10/0/5 which has no access to vigor or endurance regen
Thief is very punishing for error, but rewarding when encounters are played correctly.
This is kind of the entire point of peoples meh on thieves.
I’m almost exhausted after doing a run on my thief compared to some other classes I have.
I think that’s true, Fletch. It’s the both the best and most difficult thing about the class — it’s not an easy-mode profession that’s for sure. It’s also due to the fact that a lot of people go “full berserker” and then cry when their glass cannon build goes down on the first big hit.
thats player error, not build or armor problems, its very easy to survive in full zerker with a glass build if you know where the dodge button is
That’s much like saying gear doesn’t make a difference, which I would categorically reject — obviously gear does make a difference, and spec’ing for more survivability is obviously going to help people live longer than if they spec full berzerker.
apparently you misunderstood, theres no point to bring any defensive stats because 90% of damage in this game can be avoided and those stats are wasted
now as for using defensive gear to survive, why? thief brings 2 things to the party, lots of stealth and extreme damage (were #2 only because ele has fgs), so why would you sacrifice close to 66% (random ballpark here but its fairly close if you consider 100% crit chance and crit damage) of your damage, now since your dps is now below a zerker necro why would people want you in the party?
Thief is very punishing for error, but rewarding when encounters are played correctly.
This is kind of the entire point of peoples meh on thieves.
I’m almost exhausted after doing a run on my thief compared to some other classes I have.
I think that’s true, Fletch. It’s the both the best and most difficult thing about the class — it’s not an easy-mode profession that’s for sure. It’s also due to the fact that a lot of people go “full berserker” and then cry when their glass cannon build goes down on the first big hit.
thats player error, not build or armor problems, its very easy to survive in full zerker with a glass build if you know where the dodge button is
build 1. s/d is only better than s/p in less than 5 situations in the entire game
build 2. there are 3 bosses that are easier to range than to melee (excluding world bosses but lets face it these dont count)
build 3. condis arent viable in pve, if you need me to explain why then you dont pve
build 4. see build 3.
No because they want to destroy our image, kill our credibility, so they have to make a mockery out of our ways.
Like the siths we will be casted into exile far away with nothing to furnish our existence but the bitter memory of our past glory. Like the siths we will wait patiently, for revenge and remorse fuel our veins with relentless anger. And like the siths we shall return stronger than ever, when they least expect us.
either d/p or s/p makes soloing vets easy, just spam black powder and unfortunately if you want to maximize your thief’s potential your going to stay that squishy, you just learn to time dodges/evades the more experience you have with each fight
Is going all out on damage and traiting no defence/utility really necessary?
On forums all i see is 25/30/x/x/x viable. but what about 0/30/25/15/0?
i really like that build, it makes pugs a lot easier to deal with, it’s also a lot more fun to use. Does it make me a bad thief wanting to use a different build?
In game thiefs also give me a lot different opinions on builds than the ones on the forums.
No, you definitely don’t have to run a build like that to be viable.
Check out the thief forums on GuildWars2Guru.com. There are a lot of good alternative thief builds there. A 25/30/0/0/15 will still get you through dungeons more efficiently than any other build if you know the fights and can time your dodges well, but you can clear all PvE content in the game with just about any build you can think of (well, top tier fractals is probably the exception), so go with what you enjoy.
Here are some threads from the Guru forums you may be interested in:
1. by the time you get 2 stat gear, power builds start pulling ahead, by 3 stat gear condi builds are left in the dust, so yes great time to swap over
2. i prefer s/p mainly for the cleave so i can pull several mobs at once, and you shouldnt be trying to solo a champ, takes a long time and gives minimal xp, not worth it until you have all your traits
3. depending on your preference id advise s/p + sb or s/p + d/d (mainly for movement) and dont use pistolwhip it lowers your damage from auto attacking
4. as far as leveling builds go, put everything into deadly arts/critical strikes and fill in the rest wherever you want (our best traits are grandmaster or grandmaster minor so you cant get them yet)
lets face it, by not running 25//30/10/x/x, you literally cut your damage in half. If your worried about survival problems run s/p with signet of malice and spam pistolwhip, if that doesnt keep you up then your going to be eating dirt a whole lot more as a warrior
@Clumsy: Forgive my ignorance, I’ve only been thieving for a little while, but 25/30/0/15/0 & 25/30/0/0/15 & 25/30/10/0/5 just isn’t all that descriptive, especially when comparing them in detail. You specify when to use them, but not what traits they include or the weapon sets. Could you be a bit more specific for me please? I’ll be 80 within the week and would love to understand the ins & outs of endgame PvE thief.
excuse my lack of exact names or numbers but i dont pay attention to those just what they do
deadly arts – 1. mug 2. dagger damage
critical strikes – 1. usually prec to vitality 2. the trait that gives 10% chance of quickness, 3. executioner (never ever ever hidden killer unless your in wvw)
shadow arts – 1. either trait that gives 2 initiative every time you stealth or condi removal every 3 seconds (condi removal only in certain situations 95% of the time its going to be initiative on stealth
acrobatics – 1. w/e you want, only putting 15 in for the endurance regen on dodge
trickery – 1. flanking strikes
@Clumpsy Actually i dont want the same build for WvW and PvE!
The trait options are looking pretty intresting and i most likely check them out!
@Oghier
Thanks for the tips!I would like to know though what should i pay more attention gear wise too!I mean,when i go power/ precision/ crit thief do what stats should i aim expcept power?Should i mix some vitality there too?
For WvW, is P/D better than D/D or even D/P?
for roaming d/p is best, d/d is a burst damage set and doesnt work awell if you mess up, for zergs i always run s/p +SB, and full zerker with a defensive build is more than enough survivability for zergs and roaming
You shouldn’t use the same build for wvw and pve. As far as pve goes, 25/30/x/x/x (see below) is and has been the meta build for months, as far as wvw goes, build around your weapon set, i normally run d/p with 0/20/30/20/0 or 0/30/20/20/0.
25/30/10/0/5 – the best for long fights, typically for pugs and outdamages 25/30/0/0/15 in fights longer than 12 (?) seconds
25/30/0/0/15 – highest burst damage, dont use unless your in an organized party that can kill most bosses in a few seconds
25/30/0/15/0 – i normally use this for fractals, the 15 in acrobatics really helps out for dodging
And as far as weapon sets for pve go, d/d and s/p are our best 2, there are very few situations where you shouldnt use these, mainly range boss fights or running to the next boss (shortbow shines here).
ignore the parts about WvW and also full berserker’s armor w/ scholar runes and full berserker trinkets
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
You don’t know what generous means, apparently. And no, you don’t sacrifice all of your escape tools to do it… unless you’re going to tell me stealth isn’t an escape tool now.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.
And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.
i was being generous to the thief, he isn’t very good considering his backstab hit for only 11k, and you seem to forget this is d/d meaning if i want stealth i get 3 seconds before i have to land another cnd, not to mention that said thief is running without any swiftness or 25% signet
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.
You’re being extremely generous with that estimate, there. You’re also assuming all PvP takes place in a vacuum where everyone has full endurance and can afford to focus one particular person out of a group in order to time dodges perfectly to avoid being instagibbed.
So again, I ask – why is it fair that thieves can kitten near instakill somebody running full toughness/vita gear?
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
So instead of doing close to 30,000 damage in the span of a few seconds, you’d do 20,000?
First of all, he was running D/D. Second of all, he wasn’t stealthed when he engaged with you, or else cloak and dagger wouldn’t have worked). Third, you didn’t have over 3k toughness.
I never said he wasn’t running D/D, that he was stealthed, or that I have over 3k toughness. I’m not sure what your point is. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Edit: To further explain what is meant by “you can’t spam stealth and be glass cannon”: It takes investment in non-offensive traitlines to be able to spam stealth. What you most likely got hit by was a 3(4) signet thief. It literally takes dodging the 1 big hit and then auto attacks will kill them as all of their utilities are dedicated to offense and used in the span of about 2 seconds.
Let’s not kid anyone here, even when investing points in defensive traitlines a thief in full zerker still hit like a truck. Especially in WvWvW with ascended weapons. Stats are more leveled in SPvP and it isn’t as big of an issue there. It’s also kind of stupid to expect people to somehow magically dodge invisible attacks just at the right moment. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Unless you have a lengthy evade or block your two dodges won’t get you far. In group fights it’s just not going to happen.
1. He was a d/d using 3 signets, it was physically impossible for him to come at you stealthed. Unless you weren’t paying attention and he came up behind you but thats a l2p issue.
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
i dont get this, i throw away a minimum of 1.5 stacks every day, i have nearly 3k saved on a mule, there so easy to get that it makes them annoying trash
just looked it up and wiki says he applies burning every 3 seconds for 3 seconds, id try to use sword 2 and jump back to avoid his burnin, should be easy if you can get his pattern down, and if all else fails try shortbow
are you using s/p? best weapon set for open world stuff, lacks damage of d/d but has condi removal on demand and a nice evade and black powder
edit: was this veteran effigy a group event?
You shouldn’t use the same build for wvw and pve. As far as pve goes, 25/30/x/x/x (see below) is and has been the meta build for months, as far as wvw goes, build around your weapon set, i normally run d/p with 0/20/30/20/0 or 0/30/20/20/0.
25/30/10/0/5 – the best for long fights, typically for pugs and outdamages 25/30/0/0/15 in fights longer than 12 (?) seconds
25/30/0/0/15 – highest burst damage, dont use unless your in an organized party that can kill most bosses in a few seconds
25/30/0/15/0 – i normally use this for fractals, the 15 in acrobatics really helps out for dodging
And as far as weapon sets for pve go, d/d and s/p are our best 2, there are very few situations where you shouldnt use these, mainly range boss fights or running to the next boss (shortbow shines here).
Would anyone like to tell me how people are getting 100% crit chance if it’s gimping yourself so badly? -_- Full zerker EVERYTHING exotic level, mind you, you only sit around 55% crit chance. You need nearly 3.6k precision to reach 100% crit chance.
I’m honestly starting to feel like everyone’s who’s mentioned having 100% crit chance are being unrealistic. 100% crit chance is ridiculous, unless you’re meaning with fury factored in, still you need 80% crit chance which STILL isn’t realistic.
sitting at base berserkers and glass build im at 61% crit chance, with signet of agility ( a signet you should almost always be using), im at 70%, with fury (easy to get 100% uptime with 1 warrior and 1 ele) im at 90%, since the majority of parties have a warrior in them, im sitting at a little over 100% due to banner of discipline and if i wanted to get really fancy i could invest in 25 stacks of perception putting me at around 115%,, very easy to get over 100% crit chance
ruby orbs give 20 power, 14 precision, 2% crit damage, meaning 6 = 120 power, 84 precision, and 12% crit damage
That being said, scholar runes are the superior choice, power > crit damage, and you should be at 100% crit chance without the extra precision, and yes you should absolutely be above 90% hp for the majority of every fight, if you cant do this you still need to improve but even without that 10% damage, scholar runes are still superior to ruby orbs
travelers runes are utter trash and shouldnt ever be used unless your class doesnt have access to a 25% movement signet or perma swiftness.
Exquisite ruby jewels give 25 power, 15 precision, 3% crit damage, though. So you lose off on only 15 power in exchange for the crit damage loss (Which is hard enough to get on its own) and the precision. And no, you shouldn’t be at 100% crit chance, even with fury. 55% is plenty and anymore is pretty much overkill.
you cant put exquisite on armor, and yes anything under 100% crit chance is intentionally gimping yourself, especially as a thief where our damage relies upon a guaranteed crit from backstab, and dropping the 20% while enemy is < 50% hp trait isn’t an option
edit: changed > to <
ruby orbs give 20 power, 14 precision, 2% crit damage, meaning 6 = 120 power, 84 precision, and 12% crit damage
That being said, scholar runes are the superior choice, power > crit damage, and you should be at 100% crit chance without the extra precision, and yes you should absolutely be above 90% hp for the majority of every fight, if you cant do this you still need to improve but even without that 10% damage, scholar runes are still superior to ruby orbs
travelers runes are utter trash and shouldnt ever be used unless your class doesnt have access to a 25% movement signet or perma swiftness.
edit: forgot to mention divinity runes, same as travelers, should absolutely never be used under any circumstances, mainly due to wasted stats on them
I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.
In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.
Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.
you must be a bad warrior
What do you mean? He is absolutely correct. Bomb engineer, afaik, has lower dps. But thieves and ele both have higher dps than warrior.
this is what i dont get, people still think warrior has high damage when in reality its lower-mid tier damage, basically tied with ranger
Warrior is easy roam / spvp only because of the healing signet bug/buff. When it will be fixed/nerfed (I really don’t know if devs know about it or not, but it ticks each second instead of each THREE seconds) warrior will be only good for wvwvw and pve, like it has always been.
healing signets functioning as intended at every 1 second, and really guys? warrior hasnt been the top class for pve since like january, its been ele, guard, thief, and mes (and sometimes engi but hard to find a decent one)
so a few minutes ago i was happily walking around kessex hills mapping away, when i get to a heart that happens to need access to the middle of the lake to complete in a timely manner, but since you’ve blocked it off im stuck killing 2 krait that are on a massive respawn timer to finish this map, in the future can you at least consider adding another way to complete stuff if your blocking off an area
unfortunately theyre all over the place, (this should probably go in the player fails thread) even in dungeons, had a pug ranger join for coe final boss and i swear he stacked with us while using kudzu the whole time
If I advertise for an experienced group I have the right to be as selective as I care to be when pugging which includes removing people who the group feels aren’t contributing at all.
There is a time and place to use Shortbow, Arah Lupi. A thief sitting next to a ranger just pew pew pewing away is useless whether you agree or not.
That lovely 1337 crit damage pales in comparison to the auto-attack chain of d/d. I stated earlier that the point in running dungeons in an experienced group is to finish it as quickly as possible. You are barely contributing to achieving that goal.
Lastly to reiterate what Clumsy has said… Learn to dodge. You are a thief you have plenty of ways to jump in and out of combat to ensure you don’t go down often.
But that lovely d/d can’t compare to shortbow vs multiple opponents and it sure as hell can’t do much to support the group as well either. While your min/maxed zerks are hitting up to 3 guys at a time I am hitting all of them. While you guys are placing fields I am making blast finishers.
I seriously doubt you know the class at all let alone their shortbow attacks.
1. why are you using blast finishers in combat? your job is to use them to spam stealth to run past stuff
2. s/p has more utility than sb in combat
3. s/p hits higher on 3 than sb does on 5 (edit: thats higher on the 3 hits total then shortbow hits on all kittens total)
I guess you are right but that’s only because im using PVT/Valk. SB is meant for multiple targets which probably is why its AA is so weak.
My point is however that asking one of the squishiest classes to melee in a dungeon where everything is a lieutenant+ is stupid. If the thief ends up downing/dying that’s -1 person doing damage.
Regardless if it’s their fault or not, if the thief draws too much aggro and burns up their escapes, they die and make it that much easier for the team to wipe. Using a shortbow prevents that by keeping the thief at a distance while giving them the options for support.
and why would the thief get downed? seems more like a skill issue than a weapon issue
They are actually. I use shortbow on my main and have a superior sigil of fire on it. Right now the auto attack crits literally for 1337 and explodes for a little less than that. When there are adds I spam clusterbomb which can hit up to 15 times, way more than other professions’ AoE. And better yet, hitting and critting with all three bombs deals more damage than the big explosion plus bleeding and the big explosion crits for 4.5k.
I am doing this while I stay alive.
As for d/d conditions, they have arguably the best bleeds. However, it also has the best cripple and one of thief’s most evasive weapon set. Having one d/d condition and the rest zerkers will not only leave condition damage set but after the bleeds are applied the thief can disengage and provide support.
If you really expect a thief to be useful by facetanking with everyone else in zerkers then all I have to say is you really need to understand this class better.
i dont think you understand how low that damage is, to put it in perspective every 3.5 seconds i can hit 40-45k without max buffs
edit: trying to find that vid of a thief doing nearly 70k every 3.5 seconds, ill post it if i can
Both the frostgorge and cursed shore champ farm would produce many gilded coffers.
If there are not enough people around to make that work the Champion Wolfmaster near Twinspurs waypoint in Wayfarer Foothills is easily soloable, drops the gilded coffers and repeats and a reasonable rate.
im pretty sure champs in frostgorge only drop gilded strongboxes which dont have a chance to get genesis/entropy
Nop , he is right . SB and P\P thief deserves a kick . It’s like a bearbow without a bear .
not always, much easier to use range on legendary grawl thing and dredge fractal boss but outside of those 2 situations using a shortbow other than to stack might deserves a kick
dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level
edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on
kitten , i can swear i have my thief created since game pre-release
maybe you are right and my memory fails me…
it is hard to master the thief? Yes
newbie guardian/warrior etc. is much much MUCH better to a party than a newbie thief (that dies most of the time or stays in stealth), at least they have party support like 24/7 banner, group condition cleanse and/or buffs, aoe heals (large radius) via shouts with just 1 trait etc.
dungeon bosses/champions/elites will laugh at your black powder =))
As a newbie warrior player and an experienced thief player, I can vouch for this.
unfortunately this is true, the only upside to a thief is its basically needed in all speedclears for skips, much higher dps than warrior, and mastering a thief teaches you to dodge perfectly (if you dont you’ll be eating dirt for 90% of the time)
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