Is anyone else encountering the reveal during stealthing? So far I’ve seen it in open world, in CM, and in SE. I can provide pictures if anyone wants them.
The only thing that really makes me iffy about getting the predator for my engie isn’t that it looks like a sniper rifle, but a sniper rifle my engineer fires from the hip.
If equipping the predator changed Hip shot to… I dunno, the same thing but fired from the shoulder, I’d be great with that. I can just pretend the more shotgun-appropriate attacks come from the flame-spewing thing that’s under the main barrel.
I’m reading this conversation and Im just thinking is quite lamentable that everything apart form DPS is pointless in this game. Reads like a complete failure in game design.
Your problem is that your comparing GW2 to a completely different type of game. Your typical trinity-based mmorpg isn’t action-based. In action based games, the trinity is replaced with CC, support, and dps. If you think stacking and DPSing is the only tactic then you’ll fail miserably at everything outside of the easiest dungeons.
so you stacked in a corner and didnt even think to ask why?
The benefits are apparent. Most bosses get stuck trying to get to the corner, buffs/boons are easily applied, and it’s a quick way to kill your enemies. I understand why it works.
It’s just that in my head, when I think of a dungeon run, standing in a corner mashing my skill keys doesn’t seem like much fun.
Edit: From what I understand (after reading the Dungeon FAQ, thanks to @maxinion) stacking doesn’t seem to work in Fractals. Maybe I’ll give those a go.
Your problem is that your thinking of dungeons as epic experiences. They are on your first run. After run #4527 they no longer feel epic and are quite boring. Why would I intentionally increase the time required if I’m repeatedly doing something that I find boring?
I suppose that’s true. My only thought would be, “Why are you doing something that is boring you in the first place?”
But, I do see your point. Eventually you just want to get your rewards and get out. Makes sense.
Its much easier to farm gold by running dungeons than it is by killing world bosses.
so you stacked in a corner and didnt even think to ask why?
The benefits are apparent. Most bosses get stuck trying to get to the corner, buffs/boons are easily applied, and it’s a quick way to kill your enemies. I understand why it works.
It’s just that in my head, when I think of a dungeon run, standing in a corner mashing my skill keys doesn’t seem like much fun.
Edit: From what I understand (after reading the Dungeon FAQ, thanks to @maxinion) stacking doesn’t seem to work in Fractals. Maybe I’ll give those a go.
Your problem is that your thinking of dungeons as epic experiences. They are on your first run. After run #4527 they no longer feel epic and are quite boring. Why would I intentionally increase the time required if I’m repeatedly doing something that I find boring?
I have been playing for over a year now and i can’belive some things i’ve seen in dungeons mostly fractals. Few days ago i did a daily lvl 25 fractals. First one was swamp, second was the hammer one. I did pug run with two pugs who were in same guild, the ramaining three was random pugs (including me). On second fractal after we killed the boss the two guild players kicked the pug mesmer and guardian for no reason and invited their guildies. I just stood there waiting for a kick too but i guess ele is a valuable asset to the team, pug or not. The kicked players were ok players, did nothing wrong. When i realised what happened, i wrote in the party chat: did you just kicked people so you could invite your guildies? I got no reply ofc, so next thing i wrote was: you are the worst kind of players and should be ashamed of yourselves. And left the party. I just refuse to play and make an effort if i’m in constant fear of getting kicked in any moment no matter how i play. If they want they can kick me on last boss and invite a guildie to collect end chest i worked hard for. I hate that kind of players, i hate kickers i just hate them. I whish anet has some report option for that.
Or you could consider the possibility and you and the 2 other pugs didn’t read the lfg that could have said “fotm x – experienced players only” and you just happened to meet their requirement while the 2 others were kicked for being inexperienced and joining an experienced only party.
Maybe if enough people record it happening in different locations/dungeons we can all spam Anet with the videos until they do something about it. And it seems like the “fix” released on the 15th made it a whole lot worse than it used to be.
The 1 shot attack wasn’t a bug. He uses an attack similar to kholer’s whirl and pull. However if the walls were still up and both of you were outside that is a glitch.
Maybe I’m phrasing my arguments badly. I don’t care if Anet introduces mechanics that completely eliminates all uncoordinated groups from being able to complete dungeons (Actually I’d be all for this idea but that’s another topic) In fact I’d love it if Anet tried to introduce these ideas to dungeons. The most obvious solutions to attempt to stop stacking are adding anti-AoE mechanics to trash mobs/bosses or adding incredibly punishing PBAoE, both of which would stop all stacking in pug groups. Neither of these “solutions” would stop stacking in organized groups. Coordinated CC, active defenses, and high DPS would keep either of those solutions from working. Stacking can’t be removed unless Anet redesigns the entire games combat.
I did read it. All I see is how you list ways to prevent stacking with minor consequences.
As if any solution isn’t going to have any consequences at all.
Your still not getting it. I listed “possible” solutions to stacking and why they would fail. The only solution that would actually work with a 100% guarantee would be removing all walls, corners, and terrain from dungeons. There isn’t a way to remove stacking (aka LoSing, something that’s in every mmorpg ever released) without making dungeons visually unappealing or creating an insane difference in the time it takes pugs and organized groups to run dungeons.
ANet couldn’t design dungeons in a way to avoid stacking and thus we have garbage gameplay like this.
You can’t prevent stacking. You could introduce mechanics that punish people for standing close together but that becomes irrelevant in coordinated groups and will only hurt newbs and pugs. You could also remove all corners to prevent LoSing but that would leave all dungeons as wide open shapes which would be incredibly boring. So basically preventing stacking is impossible. The only half workable solution would be to improve AI to make mobs run out of AoE but this still only hurts newbs and pugs because trash dies too fast in speed.runs and wouldn’t be able to run away.
>Says can’t prevent stacking.
>List ways to prevent stacking.
Okay.
You should probably read a post before you comment on it. I clearly stated the possible fixes for stacking and why they wouldn’t change anything for organized groups but would hurt pugs. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m all for attempting these fixes (except the “remove all corners” idea) if only for the reason that it would force pugs to actually play better or not be able to finish.
ANet couldn’t design dungeons in a way to avoid stacking and thus we have garbage gameplay like this.
You can’t prevent stacking. You could introduce mechanics that punish people for standing close together but that becomes irrelevant in coordinated groups and will only hurt newbs and pugs. You could also remove all corners to prevent LoSing but that would leave all dungeons as wide open shapes which would be incredibly boring. So basically preventing stacking is impossible. The only half workable solution would be to improve AI to make mobs run out of AoE but this still only hurts newbs and pugs because trash dies too fast in speed.runs and wouldn’t be able to run away.
A player wants to clear a dungeon for the first time. He joins a party and despite his complete lack of experience he expects the group to use the tactics he wants even though he has no idea what he is doing. He also expects to faceroll the content on his first run because thats what he could do in another game. Does anybody else find this logic to be unreasonable?
It would depend on the dungeon. A speed run of a dungeon that doesn’t need reflects should still be stacking DPS and that would mean 3 eles. Even without FGS they’re still sitting at the top in damage, might stacking, and blasts for stealth. edit: I guess engi could be considered in this category as well for vuln stacking once fgs is gone.
@iris In b4 guang says mesmer is top dps
Now heres a major question: Why don’t you run several eles in your casual runs? In DD we almost have to fight over who gets to play ele. Thats why we normally end up with 3.
Think about the time it takes to stack might. And the number of encounters that allow it without slowing you down (boss being friendly for a period of time).
Depending on the coordination of the team it can be nearly instant. edit: And most of the time it doesn’t even have to be instant, the time taken is irrelevant because of the time it takes to pull the boss.
No, it does not have an application in dungeons. The only light field in dungeons is WoR, and I am always careful to ensure that a fire field is placed down BEFORE WoR (usually HG). The only other fields used are: SR, Dark, and once again, that is placed down just before Fiery Rushing, after the fire fields, to activate the new GM trait; and Feedback/Null field, Chaos, which are placed down AFTER fire fields. No other fields or fields placed after fire fields means the Ele’s can might-stack away. Hence, Phalanx is useless in dungeons.
So basically you don’t understand how it can be relevant. I’ll just let you figure it out.
I don’t think I’m understanding it either then. Please explain why the warrior should be stacking might when the party is already getting a permanent 25 stacks. The only situation I can think of that this might be useful is high level fractals because of hammer guards but you keep acting like this has multiple uses.
From 6:34 to 6:44 you deal 75,523 damage @ 24 stacks of might (no scholar bonus). Bump it up to 83,075 if you want to factor in scholar bonus.
???
This “proof” has more holes in it then the average sponge. Clearly your trying to favor warriors. Maybe next time you should post videos of classes showing equal consumables, party-wide buffs, and proper builds.
last time i checked you didn’t need a scepter to use lh, but ofcourse i could be mistaken.
If your using LH as a main weapon then the point is to use whatever weapon set can stack the most might. Of course then you have to worry about people stealing your hammer and being left with the dps of a mesmer with no phantasms.
Just go D/F with 30/30/0/0/10 (vigor) and swap to staff whenever you feel it would be a safer choice. D/F stacks might almost as well as S/F and has a lot greater defensive capabilities, combined with a higher damage output.
How’d you come to the conclusion that d/f has more damage than s/f? Did you mean just the s/f attacks and not LH?
So sad that everyone thinks necros DPS sucks….
They also think necros group utility sucks….
Dredge=well of corruption… Just saying….
Necro DPS does suck compared to elementalists and thieves. Necro utility does suck compared to every other class. . Well of corruption can remove a maximum of 25 boons per 40 seconds. A mesmer can remove a maximum of 73 boons per 40 seconds for the same amount of utilities (sword AA + null field).
They can remove boons but they can’t change em to conditions…. Lets just say dredge on my necro is easier than dredge on my mesmer….
Don’t quote me on this, but I’m pretty sure that the damage dredge take from their reflected attacks is much higher than whatever damage the conditions from WoC could do.
It’s not really the conditions that kill them… I’m not a condi necro…. but it turns might to weakness… Which is pretty awesome… You guys can hate necros all you want but I have seen some very good necros in dungeons.
Define good. It doesn’t matter if I’m playing with the best necro in the world. Hes still less effective than a better than average elementalist.
So sad that everyone thinks necros DPS sucks….
They also think necros group utility sucks….
Dredge=well of corruption… Just saying….
Necro DPS does suck compared to elementalists and thieves. Necro utility does suck compared to every other class. . Well of corruption can remove a maximum of 25 boons per 40 seconds. A mesmer can remove a maximum of 73 boons per 40 seconds for the same amount of utilities (sword AA + null field).
From highest to lowest its probably something along the lines of:
1. Ele
2. thief (single target)
3. everything else
4. mesmer
Poor mesmer
But but… if the phantasms don’t die… and if you let me summon them all before the fight starts… and if the sun is at exactly the right angle, and a quaggan jumps at the start of the fight, then the DPS is good!
(also to be fair, mesmer against Lupicus is still good DPS)
Unfortunately alphard, lupicus, and fractal bosses are the only situations where mesmer is useful. And even on those bosses its for reflects and TW, not personal DPS.
Joins party without reading lfg, doesnt ask party what strategy they intend to use, doesnt tell party what strategy he prefers, complains when party doesnt read his mind #logic
no, the highest EP build is 0/20/25/25/0. of course, the build is a complete leech and is completely reliant on the rest of the party (eg other eles) to buff yourself, and has some other flaws like having dmg modifiers that are reliant on full endurance. however this is the build you will see the biggest FGS rush ticks on.
but if you’re in a dungeon where you aren’t rushing everything staff 30/20/10/10 probably will do more damage overall.
Ok ya but that don’t seem to be a good build at all. With what weapons will you use that? No might of fury stacking, you will do kitten DPS with the Staff, you won’t have enough charge to use conjure weapons constantly so you are stuck with D/F?
The idea is that fury is coming from another elementalist. You would more than likely use either s/d or s/f + LH. And if 10 auto chains with LH isn’t enough to kill the pack of trash or boss then you shouldn’t be using this build. (Assuming it is the highest EP then I wouldn’t see a use for this build in any situation outside of record runs.)
People have learned them inside out and now they skip most of the non-champion or non-event-related mobs to go directly to the bosses and finish the dungeon run as fast as possible.
Having played other MMOs, I must say that I feel weird skipping most of the content in the dungeons and zerging all the bosses in a corner. It doesn’t seem like we play the game as intended…
On the other hand, with most of the enemies and bosses relying on being HP buckets, I feel that we don’t have any other option, as otherwise they would take to long to finish.
In WoW for example you can’t de-agroo when inside an instance unless you use specific de-agroing skills that few classes had.
What do you people think?
Is skipping wrong?
Should A-net design the existing dungeons to be as fast without skipping, or leave them as they are?
Fortunately this isn’t the majority view. Even more fortunately, skipping has about a 9 year precedent set waaaaaaaay back in early GW1. If you like killing trash maybe you should try diablo 3. I hear people love killing trash in that game. And just FYI, this game revolves around the concept of “stacking” with boon sharing and blast finishers being such short range.
I don’t think your understanding the argument here LordByron. Nobody is saying that mesmer can’t have high dps. Unfortunately to achieve that high dps, a mesmer has to give up the only useful thing a mesmer can contribute. Once said mesmer gives up his support then he is now useless and still lower dps than a non-fgs elementalist. And I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not but Anet actually said that fgs rushing against a wall wasn’t a glitch. Also where did you get 350k reflect damage from? And more importantly, assuming 350k is accurate, that large damage spike is only possible on one boss and is very close to the damage dealt by 1 fgs rush.
