Guild Wars 2

hircane.1982:

Kits have their own bace damage and do not scale with your weapons as far as I know

Thats what I thought but using bomb kit #1’s damage of 407 gives a max damage of 10.7k against a naked glass cannon warrior with the frenzy debuff. I know thats not right. So is there another “weapon damage” number I’m missing?

So I was trying to calculate the max bomb kit #1 hit but I’ve ran into a problem. With the formula "damage = weapon str * power * skill coefficient / armor " does the weapon strenth mean the base bomb kit #1 damage or your actual weapons damage? Also does anyone know what the average mobs armor is?

Adamantium.3682:

Clumsy.6257:

Adamantium.3682:

Clumsy.6257:

At a minimum in a decent party you should be dealing somewhere around 8-10k/second with grenade or bomb kit

What is the basis for this outrageous statement?

Outrageous statement? I’m low balling the damage here. If your really trying for max you should be getting higher. More importantly, 8-10k/s isn’t very high. Bomb kit’s skill #1 has an attack rate of .92 seconds. That bomb can easily hit for over 8k/s.

You still haven’t shown me that this statement is not outrageous. Bomb Kit PEAKS at 8-9k in the most ideal of situations, it’s well documented on these forums. I don’t get how you translate this to a “minimum of 8-10k dps”.

Also, I’m pretty sure highest condition damage always takes priority. The wiki says there is no information about what happens when stacks drop due to extras, but a cursory evaluation in any PvE environment shows that if I have no condition damage I will rarely see my bleed damage getting through.

Starting dungeon tours right now, I’ll calculate bomb damage either late tonight or tomorrow.

Adamantium.3682:

Clumsy.6257:

At a minimum in a decent party you should be dealing somewhere around 8-10k/second with grenade or bomb kit

What is the basis for this outrageous statement?

Outrageous statement? I’m low balling the damage here. If your really trying for max you should be getting higher. More importantly, 8-10k/s isn’t very high. Bomb kit’s skill #1 has an attack rate of .92 seconds. That bomb can easily hit for over 8k/s.

i thought you said conditions have no place in PvE. So why would there be anyone stacking them?

Many classes passively stack conditions as a side effect of having a high critical chance. Its very easy to have constant 25 stacks of bleeds without focusing on conditions.

also condis don’t get overwritten unless the player has more condition damage than you. So either they are full condi which means you will indeed lose some dps

Where did you get this information? When I last checked on this all stacking conditions would overwrite each other meaning you could have a 0 condi damage necro writing over a max condi damage necros bleeds.

you unfortunately are stuck in the mindset of go zerk or go home. Which isn’t how 90% of gw2 play unfortunately. We have been seeing it more and more in pve a shift away from the stand and spam, with tactics being required hopefully whichever way arenanet decide to go. we’ve seen a shift in paths being adjusted to stop people skipping half the game.

Are you even playing GW2? If anything the game is leaning heavily towards full meta gear or your getting kicked. If groups do decide to kill everything then the speed difference between meta build teams and your celestial build teams becomes insanely large. For instance, that 50 minute cof p1 run was full of random non-meta builds. The run with full meta builds took ~15% of the time.

Celestial is a really good set of gear, it’s versatile enough to be useful in all situations. Also means you don’t need a few sets of gear loitering in your bags. It also makes good fractals gear as well as wvw. It’s also not just my build it works for, there’s some great ft and eg builds out there which use it.

Full berserker/assassin gear is more than versatile enough to be used in every part of the game.

some players may go down the zerker route. But it doesn’t make it the best.
i admit you wont be breaking any speed clearing records, but cof p1 in 10mins stopped being good months ago.
being able to do 100kdps is useless if you are down a lot of the time.
dead dps is 0 dps.

This is the best part. Just because people use a build doesn’t make it good. A build that has the same survivability and superior damage to everything else is the best. And I love how you make the assumption that people running glass builds will die/get downed. I run a full dungeon tour every day with 5 people in full glass builds. We wipe maybe once or twice on the entire tour. I guarantee you would wipe more using non-meta builds.

I stand corrected. I didn’t know that Anet had mentioned raising celestial stats. Also I don’t think you understand effective power. EP isn’t DPS. A difference of ~2k EP between 2 sets does not mean a difference of 2k DPS. EP is a direct damage comparison to determine what pieces of armor/consumables/sigils will make your DPS higher. Changing skill rotations and traits will render the calculations invalid. And I seriously hope your joking if you think 2150 damage per second is good. You may be adding 2150 condition damage per second but your losing nearly the exact same amount of physical damage by using a suboptimal skill rotation to improve your condition damage at the expense of your physical damage. At a minimum in a decent party you should be dealing somewhere around 8-10k/second with grenade or bomb kit. Why would you be using anything other than a pure DPS build in PvE? Healing, vitality, and toughness are rendered useless by blinds, reflects, and dodging. But just for a minute let’s say that toughness and vitality would make a difference in theoretical survivability. A full glass elementalist has more than enough survivability with the lowest armor and the lowest HP in the game. Why would you need so much HP and armor? As an engineer you have more blocks, longer range (although range is invalid in dungeons), higher base armor, and higher base HP.

I can’t believe I forgot to mention this before but you haven’t even considered that you won’t be able to stack max bleeds or burning in a dungeon. Other players will be overwriting your own conditions with their conditions. Most classes have minor traits that can easily stack up to 25 bleeds in a group. None of your conditions will last anywhere near their full durations and will deal considerably less damage than what they’re supposed to.

Adamantium.3682:

You’re assuming things we have no way to even know right now, including what the Celestial stat distribution is going to be and how much Ferocity is going to give you 1% critical damage. And your little jab “more than likely someone in celestial isn’t using perfect rotations so the gap is even wider”… why is someone using Berserker or Assassin’s gear going to be using ideal rotations? They’re magically better players somehow because of what gear they’re wearing?

Aside from that glaring issue, saying something is “not viable in PvE” is ridiculous in and of itself. Anything is viable in PvE. It’s PvE. If you want to be a min maxer, be my guest you paid for the game play it how you want. We’ve all seen enough of the “zomg Zerker so good everyone else noob” drivel by now. But saying that anything other than Berserker/Assassins is not even viable is, indeed, a joke.

I didn’t assume anything. We know exactly how much ferocity we’re going to have and celestial stats won’t be changing at all. What we don’t know is how ferocity will convert into actual critical damage. I gave you usable stat points with critical damage replaced with ferocity. I thought it was fairly obvious why someone who is using berserker/assassins skill rotation is better. They care more about being useful to the party so they naturally try and find the most optimal way to be useful. Maybe viable was the wrong word. I should have said useful. But more importantly, saying “anything is viable in PvE” is just plain wrong. There’s a very large difference between finishing a dungeon and finishing a dungeon without purposely wasting time. Awhile back a video was posted of a party in full Magi gear taking ~50 minutes to complete CoF P1. The world record for CoF P1 is 5:27. See the difference?

Adamantium.3682:

Saying Celestial stats are not viable in PvE is a joke.

If you think its a joke then I’ll compare them. (Please note that these calculations have critical damage converted to ferocity for the upcoming patch. Also the calculations were done with ascended gear, I’m not sure if the stat ratio is different for exotic.)

The total of stats on a celestial amulet is 378. The usable stats on a celestial amulet add up to 162. That means 57.15% of celestial stats are wasted. The total of stats on a berserker’s amulet is 296. The usable stats on a berserker’s amulet are 296. That means 100% of stats are used and no stats are wasted. Now at this point your going to try and make the argument that you use all the stats on celestial. This argument been proven wrong by thousands of people time and time again. Condition damage, healing power, toughness, and vitality are not viable in PvE. I even took the time to compare effective power which would accurately compare the damage differences assuming both celestial and full berserker builds are using perfect rotations. (More than likely someone in celestial isn’t using perfect rotations meaning the damage gap is even wider.)
Berserker build EP = 8869.91
Celestial build EP = 7605.85
Asassins build EP = 10229.09

(The above EPs are calculated with current critical damage and are going to chance when critical damage is converted into ferocity. More than likely a mix of berserkers and assassins armor will be better than full assassins armor.)

FreekPalmer.2839:

http://youtu.be/lPtLpd7vnPM
a link to my build with some advice.
had a lot of requests about it.
first real video so constructive criticisms would be appreciated

For wvw I could see this working although I’ve never tried it. In pve, celestial has never been and will never be viable. Now the problem with advertising this build is because critical damage is about to get nerfed. Berserker is predicted to take about a 10% loss in damage. Celestial is going to take a considerably higher loss in damage compared to berserkers. This is because the ratio of stat:crit dmg is much lower on berserker/assassin/valkyrie then it is on celestial. Celestials critical damage had a crazy high ratio and now that ferocity is going to be added up like regular stats your effectively losing around half (guesstimated) of your added damage on critical hits. Now this wouldn’t be so bad for condition engineers except that you now have very low stats in all areas. You have weak healing, weak condition damage, weak physical damage, low toughness, and low vitality. You would be much better off just picking one or two areas and stacking stats in them.

As a general rule for all classes, if you run the same build in both PvE and wvw then your already playing a subpar build. The good thing is retraiting costs less than 5 silver and takes all of 30 seconds. So please be a decent player and don’t purposely underperform in 2 areas of the game just to save a total of like 1g per month.

hendo.1940:

Eleir.9325:

hendo.1940:

I don’t really see how you can conclude you have yet to be challenged when the only dungeon you’ve done is AC.

Try pugging Arah and watching your group fail both fights and skips over and over and over again, and then come back and say the game is faceroll. The sad thing is, having more people with you in something like Arah p2 actually makes fights harder. They spam CC against the abomination which means you can’t CC his enrage (which saves you from having to get a gun), they make Lupicus spam bubbles and spray because they’re kiting in circles and they don’t dodge Alphard’s pull so you can even get caught in that if you’re unlucky.

Stack and spam all the attacks = PvE in a nutshell.

Using appropriate weapons, weapon skills and utility skills is not spamming. Please tell me how spamming kills Lupicus.

Or… wait for it…. you could just solo paths.

I’ve done every dungeon in the game. I am just doing a very small portion of my breakdown for now. I am not going to write the entire thing if it is not well received. Lupicus is a cake walk. Don’t use Lupicus for a basis of difficulty when he can be melee killed in under a minute. Which I have done with a party on several occasions. Don’t get me wrong though. Lupicus is a step in the right direction, but my god he still falls very short of requiring anything near skill.

So you’re saying co-ordinated groups who are all experienced with his mechanics can melt him quickly. I’m pretty sure that’s meant to happen once people learn fights inside and out. However for the average GW2 player, it’s a very challenging fight. I’ve probably spent over 40 hours just practicing Lupicus solo so if it’s easier for me I wouldn’t say that is because the fight lacks skill, it’s because I took the time to learn it.

This is why I like to pug every now and then, experiencedguild groups carry each other perfectly, but when you’re in a pug which (though they don’t realise it) are actively making an effort to get you killed it requires you to keep your reflexes sharp and your skills fresh.

Or … wait for it… you could just solo paths that can be soloed.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Yargesh.4965:

The only exception was the southsun introduction at the start of the game where everyone was upleveled to 80 and the reward chest items where level 80.

Wrong. I was there on a lvl15 (or so) and the level of the exotics I got were in the 30’s. Even though I was upleveled to 80.

Its impossible to get an exotic below level 71(? or right around 71).

I’m not seeing the problem here. That trait line is great for both condition and physical damage builds. You would already be putting 20 points in for using grenade kit anyway or 25 for PvE so 10/5 more trait points isn’t a major loss.

Cotser.7015:

Ooops, forgot to ask for the guardian one..
Full clerics + AH + staff?
Kidding…
anyone?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE courtesy of obal

Warlord.9074:

Lastly don’t ever tell me that I need to Learn to Play especially a warrior. I bought this game during beta 2 and my 1st character was a warrior that I pretty much excursively played until now after having taken 2 short breaks from he game, Ive been here from day 1.

I’m not sure if you realize this or not but the beta you’re referring to was an open beta for everyone who pre-ordered the game. Just because you played in the beta doesn’t mean you know what your talking about.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Clumsy.6257:

I’ve been running my warrior build of full berserkers + scholars with 30/25/0/0/15 traits in WvW and have found it fairly easy to dominate in roaming situations.

Yeah… Not buying it. Either you’re outright lying or playing against incredibly incompetent players. Both equally likely… With that build any decent player will eat you alive.

I said same build and armor/runes. I didn’t say anything about weapons. Swapping weapons around more than evens out the playing field. And yes, they were probably unskilled players. That being said, this was in WvW where 95% of the players are unskilled. Or it could be the fact that I have extensive experience with all classes so its considerably easier for me to counter classes that would normally be a problem. Either way, I run full glass on all classes in roaming and zerg situations and its more than doable if you pay attention.

Just for future reference, please don’t ever include “attack” in your stats as it has absolutely nothing to do with any form of damage calculations and as far as the playerbase knows, doesn’t affect anything in the entire game. Now on to the real question. If you plan on using the same gear/build for both PvE and WvW then make a PvE build. As a warrior you have natural defenses that can overcome a lack of defensive stats so its much easier to go pure glass and survive in ZergVZerg situations. I’ve been running my warrior build of full berserkers + scholars with 30/25/0/0/15 traits in WvW and have found it fairly easy to dominate in roaming situations. As for your build, you might want to work on that. PvE is dominated by full glass builds because nearly all damage can be negated by active defenses like dodges and reflects. Using defensive stats of any kind is just a waste with the current difficultly of dungeons/fractals.

Roach, if you don’t kill the retaliation totem then everyone who uses fiery rush takes somewhere around 40k damage and insta-kills themselves.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Having to micromanage pets is solid enough evidence to prove that the pet AI is clunky.

If you didn’t have to micromanage pets then half their uses would no longer be possible. Micromanaging allows considerable amounts of control over the pet. It just requires effort. If you really think about it not being able manage the pet to the extent that we currently can would make it clunky.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The Ranger profession in this game seems like not very well thought out of.

The main problem is that, most of the skill that should be defaulted to Rangers are given to Warrior — simply compare the Longbow Skills. Pin Down, given to Warrior, seriously? Rifle skills that are well suited for Thieves, seriously? But I digress.

Another problem with Ranger is the pet AI. Whether you choose to be Beastmaster or Spiritmancer, you’ll end up frustrated on how clunky the pet AIs are.

So given the problems with Rangers, you are left with one choice; Thief.

Although, there are some players who simply deny the problems with Ranger and see them as a challenge. So if you are one of these guys, roll a Ranger.

Contrary to popular belief, ranger pet AI is in a fairly good spot. Granted it takes a considerable amount of micromanagement, a ranger’s pet is actually useful. My normal group has been running with a ranger for the past week or so and its worked out great. The original issue of pets dying too fast has basically been solved in regular dungeons by the current meta.

kyubi.3620:

Actualy rifle does very big damage and is an exelent ranged weapon when low on health and forced to withdraw in a pug. Btway the build you showed up here is a very attractive alternative to the 2h sword build while also keeping an exelent damage rate wich could still compete with the meta in pve situation. Ill clearly make myself a norn warrior female alt tonight to try and run it

The only way a rifle’s damage would seem good is if you were comparing it to not attacking at all. Any build that camps GS will never even come close to the meta.

Warlord.9074:

The person who said its 750 power is wrong. If it was 750 power to an individual player that is one thing. But individual damage doesn’t scale like that. At most if another player in the party has like lets say 3500 Attack. Giving them 150 Power is like giving 2-3% more damage. When doing that the warrior will lose like 25% damage.

Wethospu has already mentioned this but this irks me like nothing else. Attack has absolutely nothing to do with any form of damage calculation. If I had my way anybody who tried to use the attack stat in their “damage calculation” would be auto-banned.

Noliver.1475:

…
To OP.. I will say neither… both of the professions mentioned are known for being ineffective in PvE dungeons… They are in fact the 2 most kicked class from pugs…
…

Its true that these classes are typically insta-kicked from the average pug. That being said, both ranger and thief are amazing classes when they’re in coordinated groups. The problem with pugs is that the average ranger’s and thief’s skill level is so low that not moving or doing anything would actually improve their performance. A capable ranger or thief is highly sought after in certain dungeons. Another factor is that rangers stack well while thieves do not. A party having 2 warriors has a slight DPS loss from stacking 2 warriors but the difference is slight. A party using 2 rangers can have 1 ranger trait for frost spirit and another ranger use frost spirit without the trait so the DPS bonuses stack. 1 Thief provides more than enough stealth for the entire party so taking 2 would be a waste of a slot.

What is everyone’s strategy to kill the end boss, Ginva the Butcher? My typical party usually uses something along the lines of damaging retal/prot totems down to ~10%, might stacking, finish killing totems, pull Ginva to a corner, then 4 fgs rush/whirl, but this combo typically only takes him to between 50-66% HP before he decides to go rambo on one of the eles and at that point our strategy disintegrates into pug-style range/melee swapping. Does anyone have a better way to kill this boss?

could you go a little deeper into specifics, like are you 100% set on either ranger or thief, what type of playstyle do you want? high damage, lots of support, easy to play, high survivability? since you said you like dungeons are you the type of person that doesnt care if you spend 5 hours in a path or do you like to complete them as efficiently as possible?

It might help if you specified what you enjoy and intend to do in PvE. Do you like open world zerging, running dungeons, running dungeons efficiently, etc.?

Zero Day.2594:

Warrior.

Has the range of a ranger, mobility of thief, survivability and damage of a god.

All classes have the same cleave range. I can’t argue against warrior having the best survivability and mobility, those are most definitely true. However, warrior’s damage is pathetic. Its bottom of the barrel. That being said a lot of classes tie with warrior for this spot. The only class that is lower is a mesmer not using any phantasms.

All of those except the vulnerability are self buffs while 150 power spread over 5 people is 750 power. I’m not sure what the damage difference is or which is better but I’d be curious to find out if someone less lazy was willing to do the math on it. In case someone already knows the answer, how big would the personal dps loss be? What would the average DPS % increase be if everyone had 150 power added?

edit: And more importantly, if EA is a personal DPS loss, is it worth spreading the 150 power to classes that deal higher damage to boost them even further?

Unfortunately for us all, Arenanet would have to form a team to focus solely on this/these new dungeon(s). That won’t happen until they understand that nobody likes their living story content.

Vox Hollow.2736:

“But it doesn’t matter because we don’t have a dungeon team”

That’s another one that gets tossed around alot.
Transparency from a company is nice, but it’s cases like this that show why it’s not always such a good thing. That doesn’t mean “nobody’s paying attention to dungeons!”, that means “a specialized team dedicated to making new dungeon content isn’t necessary”.

No. It literally means nobody from Arenanet is even slightly aware of whats going on in dungeons. There are videos all over youtube of people using shadowstep/blink/LF through walls and floors. There are even fully detailed guides on how to do every skip in Arah. These have been on youtube and been general knowledge to the dungeon community for months now. Glitches that have been in dungeons and fractals for over a year still haven’t been fixed. Either Arenanet has completely given up on dungeons or they just don’t care enough to pay attention.

Sola.7250:

Paths 1 and 3 are around 7g. Path 2 goes for 3-4. Path 4 is 12-18 depending on seller.

If I wanted pay to play, I’d go play Wow!

because anet is forcing you to get DM

Tachii.3506:

Clumsy.6257:

Tachii.3506:

Fractal Mistlock Instability: You heal less for being near another player.

This won’t change anything. Most organized groups rarely need to heal because stuff dies so fast. It may make a slight difference in fractals but not enough to stop the sheer efficiency of stacking.

Spider Queen (AC), Greater Nightmare Vine (TA), Legendary Destroyer (SE) and some of the other bosses that hit hard would make it more difficult. Won’t change anything is a bit of an exaggeration. I will guarantee there will be many, many complaints as it was seen in Fractals with this mistlock.

Both the spider queen and nightmare vine die so fast that healing isn’t useful. One guardian or the ability to dodge negates the legendary destroyers damage.

Doon.2364:

Instead of bosses throwing out one big red circle of aoe for everyone to avoid, the boss will throw out 5 seperate aoe at each players seperately, so a total of 5 red circles. Let’s say that each aoe does 30% damage when it hits you. So when a group is stacking, then everyone is standing on top of 5 aoe circles, so you would then receive 5 aoe damage which is 150% damage = instant group wipe. So spreading out and attacking the boss from different angles would benefit the group more. Standing next to each other risk taking more damage from multiple attacks.

It won’t work. The dodge button was invented for a reason.

Tachii.3506:

Fractal Mistlock Instability: You heal less for being near another player.

This won’t change anything. Most organized groups rarely need to heal because stuff dies so fast. It may make a slight difference in fractals but not enough to stop the sheer efficiency of stacking.

What am I talking about? Well… heres a list.
1.

it really compounds with the problem anet made by making thieves barely if at all desierable for dungeons/fractals.

Thieves have always been and more than likely will always be in the tier of classes for dungeons/fractals.

2.

p/p and s/p are best buidls for high dungeons and fractals. anythign else is purely 1 or 2 situations prefferred at best

P/p has 2 uses in this entire game. None of which require it. It should never be used in any circumstances in anything other than molten duo boss fractal or grawl fractal for end boss. Both situations benefit from a weapon hitting multiple times really fast to burn off stacks.

3.

auto attack only on sword beats entire d/d build. :P

Sword auto attack doesn’t even come close to d/d auto attack. Unless your talking about cleave but then thats so obvious that it doesn’t even need to be mentioned.

4.

thief BS is 5-6500 on average. can go higher maybe 8k if u have a decent d/d build /armor . if u are any higher ur gonna die…alot. even if its 10-12k its stillno comparison. even with 6k HS .

That backstab damage is pathetic. A full cleric’s thief would hit higher. Its more than possible to run in full berserkers and never die. I know multiple thieves that do it daily.

5.

Dagger Dagger = (ps nobody runs full zerk with this…10.8k hp is death with no def)

Your wrong. Refer to above quote.

6.

d/d cannot sit there in a stack and do dmg. (snip) the sword set will sit there and keep dmging where the dagger needs breaks every few secs.

If you can’t sit in a stack with d/d then your not dodging. D/d is very capable of surviving in a stack

7.

MOST groups that run pro/speed/experienced/zerk would not like to see dagger thieves as main hand.

Most speed run teams would kick a thief on sight if he wasn’t using d/d on bosses.

And just FYI about me not providing help, I’ve posted survival tips for meta builds many times. Its honestly incredibly easy. After playing my glass staff elementalist these past few days I’ve realized that you have no idea how easy thieves have it. We’re the epitome of tankiness compared to an elementalist.

Quells.2498:

You can’t control the world bro. It’s just life don’t take it so seriously or you’ll never get out alive. I’m just asking you to take a step back and look at the things you’re asking.

Van Wilder quote

Travlane.5948:

who am i? i am just like the guy who says “no thieves allowed” . sad that it has to happen but im responding to THAT guy. and trying to make it better on our end. and if u dont like hearing “dont lie when entering groups”…“dont fake when entering groups” and “play appropriate builds for experienced/speed/pro runs” is off or wrong…then u are selfish yourself. im not asking anyone to be top notch for casual runs. but for the experiened runs….as they are required to be so…yes. im basically reiterating what the LFG posts say. its not like im saying it first. just reiterating. hows that wrong? oh… its not :P . if u dont like it then go /whisper the party leaders you see in the LFG Beta table. cheers.

Its ironic that you think your actually helping. Because teaching people to use mediocre wvw builds in pve is helping. Thank you.

Travlane.5948:

also ur 100% backwards. i dont look at this game as a life…but as i HAVE a life. i dont wanna spend my hour or 2 that im able to play when my daughter is in bed just looking for a group or spending it all on 1 path (1.5g) bc its a horrible group due to the fact the experienced groups dont want thieves.

Its rare that I get to play my thief in the typical experienced groups that I normally run with. Not because they don’t want thieves in the party but because by the time I join the group normally already has 1-2 thieves in it. An experienced group that doesn’t like thieves is not an experienced group.

This build never worked. Leaning on the generous side both it and 25/30/0/0/15 have the same +% damage and same survivability while 25/30/0/0/15 offers 150 more power. Realistically, 25/30/0/0/15 has about +5% more damage and 150 more power. Your trading that damage and power to maintain 58% up-time of fury and 1 stack of might. The trade-off just isn’t worth it when other classes can maintain permanent fury.
edit: In hindsight saying that 25/30/0/0/15 has about +5% more damage was wrong. Its probably closer to around 8%.

@falunel: let me give you a metaphor, when you teach someone how to make a wheel you don’t tell them to use the very first version that inevitably was a square and didnt work well, you tell them to go straight to a circle because thats what works best

Cleric’s is much more common than any of those. Also several popular PvP/WvW builds use cleric’s armor.

J Eberle.9312:

Are YAST threads the new TAFU?

Also pro tip 4 the OP: Make your own parties and specify what you want in the description.

No because Anet can’t replace corners/walls with scarlet (not saying they won’t try though).

Warcry.1596:

Clumsy.6257:

Do you even understand what stacking is? Its standing around a corner to force mobs to group up together. Its used in every MMO I’ve ever played. What makes you think that Arenanet would change this?

Well… Guild Wars 1 didn’t have this. Ranged enemies would attack/cast while obstructed… it was flawed there but I don’t think this new system is better :p

People would pull the rangers together as tight as possible then run back to them with the moronic melee mobs fitting nicely right into the nice little ball. It took a little more effort then it currently does in GW2 but it was still well worth the time.

Creslin.1758:

Clumsy.6257:

Do you even understand what stacking is? Its standing around a corner to force mobs to group up together. Its used in every MMO I’ve ever played. What makes you think that Arenanet would change this?

Most MMO’s use a trinity aggro mechanic, and you generally DO NOT want to stack because it makes it harder for the warrior to pull aggro on mobs that peel off or add. Since he won’t even see them move if you are all stacked.

GW2 is the only game I’ve played where the typical tactic is to stack on LITERALLY one pixel on top of each other and not move AT ALL.

Maybe I shouldn’t have said every MMO. I should have said every MMO that was fun. GW1 had the exact same thing with the only difference of there was a tank who took aggro then everyone stacked. And like Sanderinoa said, changing this will absolutely never happen until Arenanet gives up on the failure Living Story project. It would require a complete overhaul of the current combat system.

Do you even understand what stacking is? Its standing around a corner to force mobs to group up together. Its used in every MMO I’ve ever played. What makes you think that Arenanet would change this?

Travlane.5948:

Spyder.9713:

lol love it u can only back stab a boss for 6k?? hahaha I get 15 on full valk gear and no stacks of blood lust

actually i have a video of backstabbing for over 62k on a warrior.

anyway since we are done bragging and chest thumping…plz re read. i said the average backstab is around 6k. that means NOT running 25 30 0 0 15 bc its not really goign to survive in many dungeons. see thats the typical thinking im talking about in bad thieves. ooh ugh ahghooogah! me hit big number. rawrgruh! lol cmon its about total dmg and sustained dmg at same time. cant do that with d/d. set up stealth… backstab for 10k 6k or 12k whatever….then try again in 5-7 seconds “if” u havent been using init for anyting other than CND BS CND BS. you are not helping a group running a dungeon fractal etc going d/d. you can be replaced by a ranger that would outproduced d/d just with spirits alone. production = helping the group thru dmg, healing, buffs, conditions, skip trash, etc etc. the only thing d/d can do is dmg. period. cant even sustain hiself.

anyway my OP wasnt about dagger vs sword. its about brining appropriate builds/gear for each need. we are so fragile that we need to bring what is exactly correct or it really shows. if a guardian brings clerics or brings soldiers armor….ur not ever going to notice the difference on yoru character unless u see the enemies hp going a lil faster or slower. even that is barely noticeable if at all. with at thief its immediately apparent tho. hence why appropriation is of immense importance.

plz people on this thread. take off tunnel vision. look at the picture im trying to paint. Thief hate. trying to stop some of it by asking thieves to bring the right buidls for the job.

Do you even understand what your saying? First you tell people that one of 2 viable builds shouldn’t ever be used. A build that you say can’t survive in dungeons. A build that I’ve personally ran in every dungeon and survived perfectly well with. And second, you say that we should promote the “right buidls” (that’s how you spelled it). Now sit back and reread what you posted.

Well not to burst your bubble, but with the current state of the game even overpowered healing isn’t viable. The splitting up to accomplish tasks is a good idea but one that more than likely won’t be implemented, especially while Anet is focused on living story.

Sarahfull.4930:

So just because you guys um.. fully learnt the boss moves off-by-heart on your zerker gear that means your better than someone who learnt the moves on a different gear set.

Right..

No. We’re better because we kill stuff faster.

Sarahfull.4930:

Your right, there really is no debate.. To you all this game is, is a time trial racing game so what ever build achieves this the fastest is: ( as you put it ) " the smartest, most efficient build"

Welcome to the world of Guild Wars where everything is a race. Get used to it.

@anierna: was typing on my phone took too long

laharl.8435:

Sarahfull.4930:

Im sick of ppl saying saying “berker or nothing”, wearing that gear does not make you the better pug!

I get that PvT is slow and safe and I dont know your view on on a mixture of stats but thats not to say zerger is only viable build out there.

Any crap build is “viable” in pve, as in sure, they can finish a dungeon. Zerker is the smartest, most efficient build for dungeons. There’s really no debate.

Actually there is. Some classes are better with mixing in some assassins.

a t s e.9614:

I trust in what I see, I don’t care about numbers on the paper. On the paper it says thief outdamages warrior , both of my chars are geared full zerker \scholar and my thief is not even coming close. I can just spam axe 11 and outdamage thief without even a proper rotation with GS\mace.

An ele without GS is weak. I have seen it several times. Joined a coe p3, with 2 eles, I tought it gonna be fast , 4 FGS woot! But it wasent going too well we failed to stack against the wall properly so we couldnt use the FGS and killing stuff took forever. We couldnt even one shot destroyer because there’s no wall. Unless you prove me the opposite with ingame gameplay I will still believe that the only thing that beats a warrior is FGS.
For a speed kill , I guess having an ele is faster than 4 warr but for an entiere dungeon path …. ele is slow\weak\ hard to play which makes this class worse than a warrior.

And again the might stack takes too much time and rooted while doing it . The ele might even die before a fight .

It might help if that thief is running a proper build and not something along the lines of 0/0/30/10/30 or some other random trash build that most thieves use. Also before you go any farther please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGD2yDFlPU. Its a video of an ele soloing AC p3 in the time it takes a typical 4 warrior pug group to finish the path.

How are yall coming up with such ridiculously low backstab numbers? It can hit for over 40k -.-

I’m not derailing. I’m saying you shouldn’t include something that no anet employee has confirmed to be an exploit in the no exploit rule.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but nobody from anet has ever said stealth skipping through the door in arah p3 is an exploit. What gives you the authority to say whether or not its an exploit? It seems to me that your forcing your opinion on others for your own benefit.

Don’t use fire veggie chili, instead try plate of steak and asparagus. Much better for less than 1s. I’m not sure if you’ve said this but I assume your trinkets are full berserkers? And I’m getting 6k just about everywhere that I’m at 80 and not downscaled. edit: Thats per tick meaning about 24k total. And thats not even close to what you should be doing with full buffs