Your confusing subjective opinion with objective fact if you are going g to so declaritively, that it wasn’t over powered. The duration that you could negate entire utility skill like especially was OP in my opinion. I do feel it swung a little too far the other way, based on how much stability some CC skills can strip. I feel with slight changes, a happy medium can be found.
The meta was already moving towards this current pirate ship meta. There is no possible way you can spin it that melee was more powerful than ranged.
No good guild ran permanent stability. The meta warrior used hammer. I cc’d everything from trash t1 blobs to the best guilds in the game. You can keep saying it wasn’t possible all you want if you really enjoy being wrong but the truth is melee was never overpowered and nerfing its stability was unnecessary.
Btw rangers still suck at everything but 1v1. Reflects, yo.
There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.
It’s almost like what the people carrying CC abilities had to put up with for two years – even if you delivered 25 targeted CCs it was no different than if you’d fired 0.
The Wheel turns.
2 days before the patch I static’d EP because as has been said innumerable times there is no permanent stability.
Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.
Are you suggesting stability doesn’t counter CC now? It absolutely does. It simply has a more reasonable limit now.
I could reasonably see some CCs needing to be limited with a cap on how many stacks it can effect or adding to the stab stacks on some of the stab skills perhaps. To find a middle ground.
There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.
Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.
Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.
If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.
By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.
To make a more serious post, I don’t like the fact that black lion tickets are the only way for gem store weapon skins to be created by players and that they can only be obtained through rng on the black lion keys. It hides the true price of the items which is really dodgy.
The purpose of early statics whenever I used them was always to force stability earlier than the enemy would otherwise need it, which would set up for later when we would land our stuns and down large numbers of enemies. I’ve also nearly single handedly caused my team to win fights with well placed statics in the past.
You should also note that their range heavy comp was already extremely effective against the enemy melee comps back when melee was at its strongest. Melee now is much weaker than it was when that video was made.
VR holding a tower against a much larger zerg back when stability not only blocked all cc but could be boosted to a longer duration than it currently can. Defending a chokepoint always gave a tactical advantage, but only to people skilled enough to play tactically.
I feel like everyone saying that allowing cc spam to counter stability is a good thing just aren’t that good at the game. ‘I feel like cc should have a place’? Did all the times I gave my team a near insurmountable advantage through expert use of statics just not happen? Have warriors not been using a weapon that’s main focus is on stuns since launch?
CC has always had a place in wvw for people good enough to use it. Now you don’t have to be good to use it, because if your team has more lines than the number of stability stacks a single member of the enemy team can access they can’t do anything about it.
‘what melee trains turned wvw into’? It’s a bad thing that both melee and ranged builds are viable? It’s a bad thing that a chokepoint doesn’t just hand a free win to the defenders? It’s a good thing that several classes that were viable will now struggle for viability while no new classes have gained viability?
If you want me to believe that this change is good, you have to establish firstly that stability was overpowered, that melee was overpowered and that stuns now aren’t overpowered.
Love the change, nothing was more irritating than setting up a great bottleneck, only to watch the enemy melee train just Choo Choo through it like they don’t care.
If that happened your bottleneck sucked. Look for some videos of VR defending towers. Their comp was invincible vs open field comps.
You fell for the whale trap. Never buy rng items off the gemstore.
PPT is neither competitive nor fun. Fights are rarely competitive, but occasionally are and are also fun. The winner is obvious.
Old stab rewarded only coordination and not numbers. New stab only rewards numbers. CC was never useless, the only people that complained that it was were just asleep at the wheel.
Since when did “skill” mean stacking stability?
Never, because good guilds only had at most 60% uptime. You’re the one that needs to get good if you think that was carrying the guilds that rekt your blobs.
Also lol playing to win in wvw, there’s nothing competitive here. There is only fun or not fun.
Pewpew is meh, all the new pirate ships will be running all of the reflects.
Ele in wvw has to attunement dance so the staff loses a ton of dps. It can burst when in fire just like every other ele weapon but its sustained damage is weak overall. Enemies move a lot more in wvw than pve also so you lose a ton of damage there.
Scepter has 900 range on several of its skills, but it can’t be treated like a ranged weapon. It reaches maximum effectiveness when used point-blank, just like the dagger.
So don’t you just stack retal, ball-up (to abuse the 5-person aoe limit), and drop heals while prancing in the aoes?
This has never been a thing that good groups do, just like how good groups never had 100% stability uptime.
Trying to ‘abuse’ the 5 person aoe limit is a great way to wipe.
I thought specialisations were supposed to bring things that the profession never had before. We already have daggers for all-purpose melee and no real way to do ranged dueling or skirmishing, only fire support really. S/F is as close as it gets but it’s more like a shotgun set similar to engi’s rifle.
Sounds like the new meta will be bomb-chicken. Whoever commits to the fight first loses.
I love how every time I go to a forum of a GW2 game mode, I immediately think: wow, THIS must be the worst sub-community in GW2.
You have seen a few minutes of made-up gameplay and an explanation of two ANet representatives of some of the new mechanics. You don’t know anything about the flow of this map, about how much time it takes to do something, not even about how it feels, what the countermeasures are… Yet you already know for sure that you are not going to like it.
A square flat map without NPC’s would be boring after seconds. The best fights I can recall happened, because there is a keep lord that needs to go down before you can tap.
There will be beta events, I suppose even for this new map. Why don’t you at least wait for that to have happened to collect the experiences made?
Anet did plenty of describing how much they’re buffing defending. Defenders with even numbers have had an advantage over attackers ever since launch and continue to be buffed with every (few and far between) update to WvW. Despite it never needing buffs and getting nothing but buffs, you rarely see much effort put into defending outside a select few servers. That tells me that the player vote is in: people don’t enjoy defending. It’s just as rewarding to kill a zerg open field as to kill them while defending yet defending is less common than open field fights, so rewards can’t be the reason either.
How much does Anet have to buff defence before they’re happy? Will it be when the only things that ever get capped are camps?
By the way, the best fights I ever had were GvGs against EP and Agg. At least in a GvG you actually have to play instead of just watching siege do all the work.
Does being fed free kills make you feel skilled?
The only reason you would ever be able to play mindlessly and not think is if your enemies are letting you do that. I’m not surprised to see a YB liking a map that’s designed to make hiding behind walls and never fighting as easy as possible.
Thief is a necessary component of gank squads. If your guild isn’t using thieves your guild is bad. Invalidating profession choice also includes the fact that engineer and ranger are always useless outside of roaming, but my main point was that even for the professions that are currently useful, siege and tricks can replace them in any asymmetric fight.
If AoE is being spammed on the one path between you and your target (think hills lord’s room) then there is no choice but to push through it.
One thing I’ve noticed lately about WvW that seems set to become more significant with the release of HoT is the tendency for profession based mechanics to be rendered obsolete by WvW specific mechanics. To give an example of what I mean, as an elementalist I have some of the best AoE damage available, which allows me to put pressure on enemy groups and destroy siege quickly. Neither of these abilities are all that relevant however, as arrow carts can output more damage with a larger AoE and larger target limit from a longer range and a safer firing position, while siege disablers can negate any siege for such a long time that destroying them becomes trivial.
Because arrow carts and siege disablers can do some of my best jobs better than I can, it feels like it doesn’t matter than I’m an elementalist. All that really matters, it seems, is what siege masteries I have unlocked.
I can see a similar issue occuring with the new shield generator siege. With the new stability mechanics coming soon most stability generation available to our professions just won’t be enough to push through a choke point if the defenders spam their lines. The defenders need only place one more line than the number of stability stacks the attackers can generate to negate the attackers’ stability entirely.
The new shield generator appears that it will be supremely effective at removing enemy stability, as it gets a siege projectile that knocks back and can hit multiple times and a line of its own. This appears to mean it will be better at removing enemy stability stacks than any profession, but also the third skill, force dome, appears that it will provide the only possible source of enough stability to have a chance of crossing a choke. Now we have a single siege weapon that obsoletes both anti stability skills and stability skills. All this and we don’t even know yet what its mastery will do or what improvements the superior version will have.
I don’t want siege, tricks and traps to be doing all of the work. I want there to be things that only some professions can do, so that profession choice matters. I don’t want to be nothing more than a miserable little pile of supplies (but enough talk, have at you!).
Based on those photos, will Revenants also get stances?
The invocations are all named ‘Legendary X Stance’ e.g. Jalis is Legendary Dwarf Stance.
Making a legendary was already far easier for a PvE player, now it’s even more so.
#PvEPrivilege
Making a legendary is a purely PvE objective, which is exactly why everything about it should be kept out of WvW.
The less PvE in WvW, the better.
Hundred blades has less dps than warrior axe auto and the same dps as rapid fire. Neither of those skills requires any significant setup to function so you can’t say that hundred blades is a ‘risk/reward’ attack at all.
You aren’t playing a competitive game. The only time playing to win matters in WvW is in fights, not PPT.
Trinity only gives an illusion of teamwork, and if GW2 had the trinity it would just be another wowclone.
All zerker isn’t very interesting either, but you could do much worse.
You seem to be under the impression that handing people a torn up version of the class will somehow help them learn it rather than hinder their learning.
I already know how GW2 works. I don’t need 40 hours of levelling.
At least we wouldn’t spend all day losing gold on lemongrass if there were no foods in WvW.
The problem with your suggestion is that you haven’t established that stacking is actually a bad thing.
snip
Clearly there’s more than just what I said that would be needed to make the system work, but being on a server that’s already winning won’t benefit you because glicko already expects you to do just as well as you’re doing, so you can’t get the top tier reward for exceeding your expected score for the tick by whatever % it’s tuned to.
Your argument seems to come from a bad premise in the first place. Most transfers to top tier servers aren’t for the sake of coasting to easy wins. Most fights guilds especially don’t care at all which server wins each week as long as they get fights, which they get the most of in t1 and t2. The reason why people tend not to want to be on lower tier servers is due to there being too little activity.
Reward people according to server performance relative to glicko predictions over 15 minute intervals. Not a perfect solution but I believe it’s better than what we have. It would also encourage players to still play even when they greatly outnumber their enemies or are outnumbered.
Other RvR games being bad isn’t an excuse for WvW being bad.
PPT is kinda important to gauge balance and activity in relationship to the other servers in the matchup, but not much beyond that.
This is exactly right. The score cannot possibly be competitive for a variety of reasons, but the one big one that automatically disqualifies it is the fact that the game is free for all between 3 teams. What PPT can do, however, is measure coverage for matchmaking purposes. Playing for PPT is ridiculous because it throws off that measurement.
What I would like to see done in WvW is to make it focus more on the battles rather than just on the war. More reasons to engage in actual pvp combat instead of sitting around watching siege do all the work. More reason to fight on multiple fronts for actual macro-level strategy.
If you include base attributes a berserker amulet warrior has more total attributes than a celestial amulet elementalist. Despite this, most people would not suggest that the berserker warrior is better, because it isn’t better.
Since this topic has red posts I’m hoping this will get noticed. Currently if I hit a defiant mob with a cc attack and I have lightning rod traited, I proc lightning rod even though I didn’t actually inflict cc on the mob. It appears that the new stability stacks are going to be functionally identical to the current defiant stacks, so I’m worried that this may have been overlooked. If it has, lightning rod eles will become hilariously overpowered in WvW.
Clearly the ele specialisation will be the sandwichmancer. It’s new weapon will be the torch, with various elemental sandwich preparation techniques.
So carefully pacing out group Stability will have to be a thing instead of blanket spamming Stability to achieve such silly long duration you basically have a blanket CC immunity for (most of) the duration of a fight.
Stability will take better coordination and thoughtfulness to use effectively. That is a good change.
It is not feasible to blanket spam stability to achieve near permanent cc immunity. Stability right now requires superior coordination and thoughtfulness to use effectively. What this change will do is weaken stability to the point that being more coordinated and thoughtful gives almost no advantage because every cast of a line by your enemies will be able to remove more stacks of stability than granted by every cast of stand your ground by your allies.
An example: if a 25v25 zerg fight happens and team A has 2 guards per party with stand your ground giving 5 stacks per cast, team A can give themselves a maximum of 10 stacks of stability per player. If team B has just 10 line skills across their 25 players, they can negate 100% of team A’s stability just by spamming their lines.
I really have to question the wisdom of allowing a mechanic to, through spamming, counter its own counter.
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
Death…good.
It’s better to just take stuff? Its a matter of perspective. It’s more profitable to run and take stuff yes. it’s more fun to to wipe a Ktrain with 1-3 people than it is to ktrain for me
I’d rather win a real fight. EotM is unsuitable for good fights so why use it as anything other than pve farming? The only reason to fight in EotM is because you’d lose in real WvW.
actually when I said practice for real WvW I’m talking more about learning how to position yourself. Learning how to react to sudden changes in direction. Veil placement, cc placement etc. Not actual learning how to fight. It’s a low risk environment.
You’ll only learn bad habits from this.
I’ll be either taking my instant 80’d rev into the jungle or my ele into the jungle to get its specialisation.
Stability currently is not ‘lel i has stab i win’. Playing with and against it requires a good level of situational awareness that simply won’t be required when it becomes possible to brute-force your way through it. The number of stacks that will be able to be generated is irrelevant also due to the unlimited aoe of lines. If my team can reach the critical mass of line skills, we only need to place one more line than you have stability stacks and that’s it; you aren’t crossing.
Right now a full ranged group comp can hard counter a melee group comp as long as the ranged comp is defending a tower due to cc spam, they just currently have to use venom share with the immob venom to do it. With enough line spamming it may even become possible for ranged comps to hard counter melee comps open field as well. Ever seen a zerg fight in EotM? Everyone sitting back taking pot shots at each other from max range while being covered by open field siege. It’s not a better meta than the current GWEN meta and I can’t help but worry it’ll come to regular WvW if stability gets nerfed so severely.
By the way, to get perma-stab currently you would need 4 guardians per party (2 with double stab, 2 with pure of voice is the smallest investment that makes it). No group worth worrying about is running 80% guards so no group worth worrying about has perma-stab.
Protection is simple. If you would average 1000 damage every 2 hits against a target without protection, you will average 1000 damage every 3 hits against the same target with protection. This is true regardless of the values of any other modifier present.
You don’t seem to be understanding what I mean about lines. 1 line will strip 1 stack of stability from every member of your zerg and 20 lines will strip 20 stacks. If you were defending a tower and the gate got opened it would be possible to simply spam all lines on the gate and this would be virtually impossible to cross since you’ll be colliding with more lines than you can block with stability.
Rather than making stability require more skill to use it sounds more like it’s making lines require significantly less skill.
Did everyone forget that lines exist? Now stability will only block a finite number of stuns, but line skills allow you to apply an infinite number of stuns. How do you expect to be able to push a choke or even close to melee range with an enemy group when they can strip all of your stability stacks instantly?