Guild Wars 2

The nerfs to Mallyx seem unreasonably harsh. UA was so apocalyptically overpowered that I can see why it had to take a hit, but the proposed change seems nigh useless. Perhaps it could instead be something like ‘inflict fear on foes where you land and create a field that torments foes that enter or leave its area’ and have it inflict more torment on entering than leaving so it can still attempt to force people out of its area with an effect that has much higher counterplay and at least strongly discourage people from trying to get back in.

EtD basically just lost its condi copying and got nothing in return. It needs something new for sure.

While you’ve certainly addressed one of the big issues of overloads by adding stability to them, a much larger issue still remains.

The opportunity cost on them is just insane.

Here’s what a meta dd ele can do with 10 seconds:
3724 instant healing
2360 healing over time
5.5s of swiftness
5.5s of protection
28s of 9 stacks of might

All of that is aoe. That doesn’t include any of the effects of the weapon skills used beyond the blast finishers or any procs of any kind.

To use any one overload you have to spend 9 seconds in a single attunement. 5 of those seconds only allow you access to the weapon skills of one attunement and 4 of them will be spent channelling the overload and prevent you from using any non instant cast skill. Then after all that you also get a 10s increased cooldown on the attunement you overloaded.

All these costs for what? The meta dd ele can very nearly outperform all of the overloads put together just by attunement cycling. Consider also that the master and grandmaster minor traits just give a bonus to using overloads, where a regular spec would give much more broadly useful perks.

To sum up; you’ve made it possible to cast an overload, but there is still no reason to ever use one.

How long is Jski going to pretend that tempest isn’t just a clone of the current meta d/d build but worse?

Even if it was stronger that wouldn’t stop the complaints because it’s that fact that it’s a clone that makes it bad; no amount of buffing or nerfing anything will change that it’s a clone.

Gank squads don’t exist apparently.

Azumi.9572:

You don’t have a Tank who is responsible for keeping the Boss in check.
You don’t have a Healer who is responsible for keeping the Team in health.
You don’t have a Support who is responsible for keeping Buffs and Debuffs on boss.
Everyone does as much Damage as possible.

You’ve unintentionally illustrated my earlier point about the trinity system only having illusionary teamwork.

If the tank plays his threat rotation correctly and uses his defensive cooldowns correctly nobody has to think about what he’s doing or interact with him as a player.
If the healer manages his mana correctly and doesn’t overheal nobody has to think about what he’s doing or interact with him as a player.
If the dps do their damage rotations correctly and don’t stand in the fire the boss dies on time and everyone gets to rage over loot drops.

In a 5 player party it’s essentially 5 single player games where you win if all 5 players get a high enough score. Any teamwork that exists is the natural result of it being a team game. The trinity adds nothing to this.

Also, damage is not the only thing that matters here because if it was the meta party would be 5x ele.

Dromina.5023:

maybe change the functioning of boons into something like protection does no longer reduce incoming damage by 33% but instead increases armor by 50%? So defensive boons are stronger with defensive stats and weaker with offensive stats.

you would still have to bring sufficient offensive stats to circumvent a possible boss enrage.

Reducing incoming damage by 33% and increasing armour by 50% are exactly the same.

Kry.1697:

(…) or are carrying your zerg(…)

Fixed that for ya.

Infinite stat changing isn’t nearly as good as you think it is.

ronpierce.2760:

Or evade more and utilize Herald heal better. Herald heal can really mess up burners of you time it well, as most burns are short but impactful. You can reset your Hp every 30 seconds fairly easily. And best of all, it’s instant!

I don’t think you’ll be doing this every 30 seconds with all that chill you can’t remove. And you won’t be able to put out much pressure while you have invul with all that weakness you can’t remove. And you’ll be in for a lot of pain after it wears off thanks to all that vuln you can’t remove. And you sure would like to dodge that incoming burst if it weren’t for the immob you can’t remove.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Condi builds are no easier or harder than any other build.

Since condi builds are no easier than power builds I guess that means I suddenly go from average skill to godlike when I swap from power builds that I have plenty of experience on to condi builds that I have zero experience on and then I somehow lose all that skill when I swap back then.

Or maybe my opponents suddenly forget how to play when I’m using condi and suddenly remember again when I’m on power?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

‘Mallyx or reroll’ isn’t a very interesting weakness.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Might and faceroll dpsing makes up a large part of PvE.

And yet the meta is not 5x ele.

Nuzt.7894:

The way thing currently work with everyone in zerk and stacking in a corner is far more boring than any trinity. I find it’s also so much easier and requires pretty much no skill at all.

Stacking in corners is almost never better than not stacking in corners. FGS got nerfed ages ago…

ITT: the only good fight is one where I have a 50 to 1 advantage!!1!!1!1

I find it funny that people both fail to see the teamwork that exists in GW2 (lets see you set a WR dungeon time or beat a gvg guild in wvw with equal numbers or win an ESL monthly with pugs) and are completely fooled by the illusionary teamwork of the trinity system.

Make your dps party out of 4 rifle zerkers and a chrono so you can drop 4 of these with unblockable and without needing to use signet of might. Should be enough damage to insta down most melee train builds.

It’s stupid that not letting someone have a name because ‘muh fee fees’ is even a rule in the first place.

Yeah man I really can’t wait to play objectively inferior versions of builds that already exist. /s

Is this the real life? I’m actually reading red posts about coming wvw changes that are good?

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

[FAIR SUGGESTION] here: nerf OP’s class into the ground. :D:D:D

Narrrz.7532:

It tells (in very rough terms) general playtime, familiarity with the game & presumably with your chosen character class.

The issue is that none of those things carry any relevance to how well you’d do in a pve dungeon. The only factor that affects your performance in pve content is how much of the solution to that specific content you’ve memorised.

You do realise that a role like cc spammer in no way requires any specific gear, right?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability#Profession_skills

Ele in its current state is almost impossible to balance. The issue is that most ele mechanics are actually really bad and near useless, but there are a few that are just insanely powerful that carry the entire class.

Have we learned nothing from warriors and cleansing ire? Being weak to conditions means being weak full stop.

Something I think people are forgetting too is that new profession mechanics on elite specs take up the adept minor trait slot, meaning they aren’t a free addition. You could’ve had a perk there if you had taken a core spec there instead. For tempest it’s even worse, though. The master and grandmaster minors are also sacrificed for overloads, adding swiftness and protection when you cast them.

Absolutely everything about overloads just gives them a far too high opportunity cost. The only way they could possibly be worth such a high cost is if they were ‘I win’ buttons, which would be bad for obvious reasons.

When people blame their death on too low dps just remind them that solos are done in zerker as well.

The impression I got when looking at the overall abilities of tempest is that it’s trying to be a replacement for arcane and water simultaneously. Shouts with soldier runes brings the condi clear; warhorn water field, wash the pain away and aura heals provide the aoe healing; heat sync, sand squall and boon generating traits give all the boons.

What this seems to have resulted in, however, is a potential third spec instead of earth or fire for a standard water/arcane triple cantrip build, but it’s not worth using for the same reason why earth typically isn’t used: the standard setup already has all the defence and support you could ever want, so why add more or use a convoluted method of replacing it?

Overloads giving the exact same type of benefit as what you could always get using your attunements in the standard manner is also just completely wrong conceptually. No matter how they’re balanced they won’t add anything to the game because it will be easy to solve when they should be used.

The problem is that Anet put a huge amount of effort into making nothing because the tempest is a clone of the meta d/d build.

I wouldn’t use it over Def/Tac/Disc.

Yes everyone please fool yourself into thinking that hard ressing is a winning play so I can kill you all more easily.

Since it seems pretty obvious that time-value-of-money is not being considered here I’m going to elaborate. Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with. Money also can be invested with the expectation of a higher return. Because of this, if I spend 50USD today it’s more valuable than if I spend 50USD 6 months from today, and if Anet receives 50USD today it’s more valuable than if they receive it 6 months from today.

In other words, if you prepurchase a game it costs you more money and makes the publisher more money than if you buy it after its release. Since prepurchasing is required to access beta tests, players are being charged extra to beta test. Therefore it is valid to call these beta tests paid betas.

The Great Al.2546:

The original intent of the elites was that they would not be stronger than the base profession. Unfortunately with the warrior, mesmer, and necro, there are very clear situations where the elite is the obvious choice.

This is how it should be though. Elite specs should be clearly better than the base class at something. What they shouldn’t be is better than the base class at most things or everything, because then you will always use elites and never the base. They also shouldn’t be clearly worse at everything than the base class either, because then you will never use the elite spec. This is the current state of tempest; there is no build you can make for tempest that would not be improved by not taking tempest.

Ohoni.6057:

Warrior has never had a meta condi build in pvp. Try harder next time.

Nobody’s talking about PvP.

You may not be, but that’s your problem. Warrior has never had a meta condi build anywhere else anyway.

Ohoni.6057:

Again, it’s not a paid beta. A paid beta is when they say “if you pay us $10, then you get beta access, and nothing else.” They have not offered that. What they have offered is that if you pre-order the game (which is hardly a new practice in gaming), then you get guaranteed beta access, in addition to getting the game that you paid for when it comes out.

Ever heard of time-value-of-money?

Ohoni.6057:

The Warrior never did Condi well. . .

And I’m supposed to take your word as to how this game works over my own. . .

Warrior has never had a meta condi build in pvp. Try harder next time.

How DARE we entitled gamers want tempest to be something more than a footnote, right?!!?

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

Wait…hold on….

You mean to say that a class thats still being beta tested, a class that can either be broken or useless, a class thats still being designed and isnt even released on live yet…..is your reasoning for nerfing conditions across the board?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Please refrain from future balance issue posts.

The problem isnt conditions. The problem is no one wants to bring condition removal. As a necro main, I purposly go into wvw knowing this fact. In spvp, I completely avoid condition builds because they are simply not up to par. Actually, condition builds frowned upon in spvp because they dont stand up to the majority of power builds.

Removing condition food wold also cripple condition builds. This is another reason why condition builds mostly only work in wvw and not spvp. Condition food is actually mandatory if you want to use any kind of condition builds as they are simply useless without it. This is a big balance issue, and if they remove condition food, they would need to increase duration’s to compensate.

I’ve had similar results in the past using s/s lb warrior against d/d eles under spvp conditions where there is no +40% duration food. I’ve played as condi and against condi. You’re blind if you haven’t noticed that condi builds have an advantage against power builds in 1v1.

By the way, d/d ele is about the only power build that can bring enough condi clear to fight condi builds without crippling itself against power builds.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Don’t equate tempest=warhorn. Overloads are what bring something new (having a reason to stay in an attunement for ~8s), and they’ve just number problems.

Overloads are absolutely a concept problem. They demand you make colossal sacrifices in return for the exact same things you could’ve had if you were just playing a regular d/d F/W/Ar build. Even if the numbers were worth it the mechanic would still be bad because there would be no decision to make. You could simply solve when to overload and when to not overload based on some simple criteria that would likely encompass 95% of all situations.

The whole point of this article is that anything that is possible within the game should be treated as a part of the game. It’s not the players’ responsibility to ensure that they only use ‘fair’ tactics; rather it’s the developer’s responsibility to ensure that only fair tactics exist within the game.

The long and short of it is that when playing the game anything that can be done should be done, and when outside the game and discussing balance there are only things that are good for the game and things that are bad for the game.

Intended and unintended are meaningless terms. Just because something works as intended doesn’t make it good. In the past hambow warriors were clearly far too strong to be good for the game, yet every mechanic used by that build was intended. Likewise, something being unintended doesn’t make it bad either. I don’t believe that dodge-jumping was intended, yet it’s been accepted as part of the game and some content was even built with the expectation that players will use it.

Who cares what happens in pve?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

There was a time when warrior was designed to be weak to condis. As a result, warrior was the dud class until cleansing ire was added.

How is having ‘only’ 196830 options a ‘problem’? If you spent 1 hour playing each possible combination you would be playing 24/7 for 22.47 years. Are you seriously trying to say that there’s any difference in meaningful choices between 10^5 combinations and 10^7 combinations?

Scarlet suffered from most of the same narrative issues as the dragons, not to mention her motivation turned out to be one of said dragons. She also had the rather sue-ish tendency to always accomplish her goals without a hitch even though we ‘won’ the battle of the day.

It wasn’t until the marionette got blown up in origins of madness that any actual progress was made in her story. Until then it was just ‘hey do these random fights and then watch Scarlet be mysterious’, which got real unsatisfying, real fast.

The thing you aren’t including in your analysis here is that 99727199 of those distributions are useless and there’s only 1 that you should ever consider using because it’s objectively better.

RubberDougie.2750:

That is your opinion. Mine is that the Mai Trin fight is fun in that it challenges people to not mess up during the long cannon phases.

More like it challenges you to stay awake while waiting to play the game.

stambogalizi.8356:

>not fighting. Since when is Claw of jormag afking equal to maitrin stack removing.Lol are you kidding me?

With bad enough pugs I’ve accomplished more in the stack removing phase by taking my hands off the keyboard than by trying to get the others to stop running around like headless chickens…

Asking if it’s pay to win ‘for you’ is just unnecessary hedging. There is no reasonable definition of pay to win that applies to GW2.

Mobs that kill you once only through cheap trial and error aren’t challenging or engaging.

I don’t care what weapon thief gets since it’s an alt to me anyway. I just like watching all the denial in these threads. Every time some new evidence pointing to staff comes up there’s an avalanche of “it’s not staff, it’s not staff, IT’S NOT STAFF!1!!1!”.

What makes anyone that wants rifle think it wouldn’t suck while staff definitely would? Surely they would both be equally capable of sucking. Warrior’s rifle is laughably bad, for example.