No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps
No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.
rangers have good acces to stability, protection , regeneration , invulnerability vs psihical damage
Double knockback (weapon skill +pet). They can CC a lot and counter CC.
thieves got – no direct acces to stability/protection/ invulnerability . poor acces to regeneration
They can stun you for 1.5 seconds ?(With elite)
They got stealth only
no. they get massive dps, the best mobility, lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
No, the primary mechanic of thief is stealth, the primary mechanic of ranger is not dps
No it isn’t stealth. Stealth was meant to be a secondary attribute. All the chicken little behavior claiming that ANY change to stealth ruins the class is just melodrama. What is the primary mechanic of rangers? Lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Thanks for those videos Xsorus. Please keep them coming. I wish there were more honest thieves out there(yea I realize the conflict in terms there haha).
Nice paradox. Yes, I love thieves like xsorus who have integrity and care about the health of the game.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
From a practical standpoint, thieves are immune in stealth unless someone gets lucky with a random aoe. In most games, stealth isn’t possible while you are in combat. It’s very easy to move out of danger while in stealth.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.
Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.
So your post here opens with the highly imbalance of stealth and then you make 4 bullet points about what you feel is a “highly imbalanced mechanic”.
Then you make a reference to thieves dps being nerfed in sPvP. Something just doesn’t hang together.
Also @xsorus
I just looked at the change to guard that you spoke of in the patch notes.
I don’t know alot about rangers but my guess they made that change rangers could kill siege on top of keeps with their pets using guard.
That change has more to do with killing siege solo than killing players. Which tells me they don’t want the objectives that nobody cares about(as you stated) to be destroyed by a lone ranger.
My 4 bullets recapitulated the line of argument from the thief apologists, not my beliefs. Secondly, since anet’s prioririty is Spvp, and they’ve nerfed thief dps in Spvp, that t elks me that thieves in WvWvW are likely imbalanced as well.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.
Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.
I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.
Most players have thief Alts, lol. Secondly, there are many thieves who have posted that agree with me.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Stealth has been like this since launch. Although other games reveal stealthers when they attack or take damage, anet chose a much more powerful stealth mechanic that allows perma stealth while in combat. Thieves will deny it, but there are known perma stealth builds. Culling make them really affordable, allowing max dps and perma stealth. I encourage you to send clear, respectful and persistent feedback to anet. It’s very I balanced.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Do you honestly think culling is the reason stealth is so overpowered in WvW? Most thief fights are small scale or even 1v1. Do you really think the only opponent on your screen is being culled?
Culling is the reason why you don’t see all those ranged guys in the back or why you’re not sure how many people just portal bombed you and even the reason you got wiped in the lord room because an extra 20-30 enemies never showed up on your screen. It’s not the reason stealth is overpowered in WvW.
I am not arguing that culling is the only reason that stealth is broken. However, some thieves cite culling as the only thing broken. I’d like to get past that excuse and tackle the real issues.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.
I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people
But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin
edit
By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….
I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.
I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.
And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.
WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.
If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…
Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..
By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers
They should advertise that
Rofl..
They took the idea of DAOC, but obviously it has it’s own unique qualities, in so many ways. I’ve never played DAOC, but I am just going to jump the gun and say that GW2’s gameplay is different so the PvP balancing in DAOC can’t apply to GW2, unless you literally had all the GW2 mechanics point by point in that game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about solutions.
My view is anything goes in open world, so don’t be off guard or don’t be so down when it happens. If you get one-shotted, you have to figure out why. Was it because your traits/equipment were low or all zerk? Was it because the class was in fact overpowered? Was it avoidable? Could you have stunbroken or invulnerable or distort out? Can you do anything about it? —- You aren’t asking those questions first nor do you give examples so I find your passion for thief nerfing moot. But seriously what are we talking about here? Stealth or being one-shotted or both? Make your point clear and quiting bringing other possible issues into it.
I am not making an excuse when I mention culling. Obviously it’s an issue. If you want to say culling isn’t an issue then come guest to SBI and let’s duke it out in the Mists where it isn’t. Choose a thief, and I will do my best to show you how any class other than thief can still handle them with whatever game tactic you choose with him. And if I beat you with at least one of them consistently, go to a corner and starting using your brain before coming here with sarcastic/know-it-all/inconsistent comments.
Thief dps is nerfed in Spvp vs WvWvW.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.
Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I don’t see why it’s pointless to discuss contingency plans, particularly since many of us don’t believe culling can be fixed, since its already been 7 months of trouble, and since aligning to how to approach solving e stealth problem is good planning. I would think anet would welcome ideas.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It doesn’t seem to affect my D/P thief much. I purposely aggro’d a few mobs on me and then stealthed and ran. Came out of stealth and they aggro’d on me again so popped another stealth and kept on running. Lost aggro this time. They regained health but so didn’t I. That seems fair. I promptly went back and killed them.
I love thieves but I don’t understand the “Hey! You’re not suppose to hit me anymore! I stealthed! I stealthed!” mentality. Stealth is a great tool but not meant to be a one-button “Get Out of Jail Free” card.
That’s why most games don’t allow stealth to lose aggro. The change made great sense, and thieves are still very powerful.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I wonder who ever came up with the idea to let the thief be able to avoid damage while stealthed makes no sense to me, why not make it so they cant dodge or evade ground target AoE’s like marks and stuff atm thiefs are always hidden and high dps tbh they dont even need armor lol
Is this a joke?
The thief takes ALL damage while stealthed.
Not from mobs or non aoe attacks. This is the only game that allows stealthers to be able to stealth during combat. It’s a bad mechanic.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Now you’re discussing zerg culling behavior, which is neither here nor there. A single thief, which is Columba’s chief source of baby tears, will never take that kind of time to render unless you’re on a dial up playing on your 10 year old computer. Which he’s confirmed that he is not.
A single thief will average about 1 second of missed visibility, 1.5 tops.
It’s not completely related to “TEH ZERG”. Simply being in an active WvW zone seems to have a pretty direct impact, as opposed to, say, sPvP.
I’ve seen several situations where a thief has taken ~2-4 seconds to re-appear and there were only a few players in clipping. Your personal internet connection and PC specs have little to do with it. It’s an engine issue and a lot of it is server-side decision making.
So you’re telling me you’ve seen thieves attacking, while invisible, for 4 seconds? Then I call hacking, because I’ve never once experienced anything even remotely along those lines.
And I play on JQ, so it’s not my server tier affecting it. If I saw video footage, I’d believe it. I invite anyone with a friendly thief on an opposing server to collaborate and get video of just how long culling lasts. I’ll gladly volunteer, if anyone wants to send me a PM.
Regardless, with news on culling being a client-side option coming next month, it’s a moot point, but I’d like science to be on our side.
Of course we have. It happens all the time.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The dread 30/30/30/30/30 Thieves. These threads throw them up a lot.
P/d condition don’t burst anyone. Glass cannon Backstab are one trick ponies that players seem to at last have worked out (3 months after spvp). Stealth backstab hybrids are slow and burst about 6k. S/d are shadowstepping half the time which is mistaken for stealth. None of them are perma stealth 1 shotting tanks that drown you in conditions with massive speed around the map. They can all be countered.
The reason you can make www vids of thieves owning the field is the same as the reason for vids of other classes doing the same. There are a lot of badly built, badly geared, badly played characters in www.
You forget that culling gives them the benefit of fulling training for stealth without having to trait for it. Funny how only thieves have thousands of those videos where the pwn people who need to “l2p.” First it was “permastealth is impossible.” Then it was “we’ll perma stealth is possible but it’s useless.” Then it was " we’ll permastealth is only effective because most players don’t know how to play." Lol. Any more ways to explain away and to excuse the most laughably overpowered mechanic in the history of MMOs.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I think they owe us a clear answer on culling fix eta and how they plan to compensate non stealth classes for having to face perma stealthed thieves all the time.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’ve seen 10 people trying to kill one lonely theif and fail. Meanwhile the thief does their super simple button click to do 15k insta DMG and then pop back into stealth.
If a thief does DMG from stealth they should drop out of stealth and NOT be able to go back into stealth for 30 seconds. It’s the worst stealth in a game I have ever com across.
I’ve seen 10 people trying to kill one lonely guardian and fail.
Meanwhile the guardian does their super simple button click to do 15k insta DMG and then pop back into immunity.
The guardian can’t hit like that and be tank ish. Sorry you are wrong. Also, they can see the guardian. Huge difference.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It’s been 7 months, and culling remains badly broken. worse yet, one class can leverage it to remain stealthed during entire fights without speccing for high stealth and get the highest burst dps of any class. further, said class get 50% run speed.
The apologists defend stealth as it is, blaming the problems on culling, even though in spvp, thief dps has been significantly nerfed for balance. So my question is, what’s the plan for stealth once it’s clear that culling cannot be fixed. I personally think culling wont be fixed, so i am anxious to see a backup plan.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I encourage those of you who can see the badly imbalancing nature of stealth in this game to send complaints to anet. Even many, fair-minded, thieves admit that stealth is badly broken, but a few thieves cling to their overpowered status. there’s a very good reason that no other game allows perma stealth even during attacks or getting damage. It ruins pvp.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Secondly, if your having problems with culling.
you need to upgrade your hardware.
With the recent change, culling got better for some and significantly worse for others.
That tells us that it may then be a hardware problem where people are using the lowest spec computers available.
If you are using the lowest grade of equipment, you may also want to come to terms that culling will possible never get better for you.
LMAO! If you think that culling is a result of client hardware, you need to L2Program, cause you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about.
I have this issue quite often where a stealthed thieve will hit me for more than half my health appear for a split second, restealth, and and I’m downed. Then stealth again, and stomp/stake me. This is not due to my hardware, I assure you that.
Before you claim that it’s my old hardware and blah blah blah, I’d bet that I have been building computers for longer than you knew what a computer was, and I know I don’t have cutting edge technology today, but I assure you, it’s more than adequate to play this game.
Now, would you like to blame the something else on the issue, or you would finally like to admit that the class has some issues that need to be worked on? I’m sure you won’t admit it, as you enjoy your 2 button no talent broken class.
Agreed. I shared my specs above. Top of the line. It’s not my hardware, lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Anti stealth skill for some classes, like Ranger get single player see stealthed players for 30sec and Engineer get AOE skill so everyone around him se stealtehd players for 10sec that i would like.
Rangers should then also have a skill that break stealth, they shoot shoot 1 on a stealthed player and everyone see him.
Yea and Eles should get an ability that removes ranger pets for 30 seconds. Necros could get an ability that locks eles into one element for 30 seconds. Wars should be able to make mesmers not be able to clone and maybe Guardians should get an instant AoE that destroys all engineer equipment in a 1200 radius.
Fine. Pets are pretty useless anyway.
See stealth may actually save WvWvW.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?
It doesn’t. It’s just a quick fix for those that don’t know how.
Is it balanced if it takes a group to kill a bunker built profession? (Holy cow, yes it is! Same principle.)
Tonight a gank Thief tried to kill me… again. I waited for the move I knew she was going to make and simply blinded and dodged as she came in for the Steal. She failed and ran away. I went back to business and /laughed.
And here’s the really, really funny thing:
Even if she had succeeded she would have left me dead and still run away, thereby achieving nothing. But of course the class is OP (never you mind the class that can AoE Quickness or Portal a zerg).
The thief probably couldn’t see you because you were perma stealthed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
. Yes, I love thieves like xsorus who have integrity and care about the health of the game.