Guild Wars 2

Jan – I agree with you. no other class gets thousand of complaints like this, yet the thief apologists just chant L2P. I don’t have problems with any other class, because I can see them and plan accordingly. these thieves seem to think that the answer is for us to read minds, run away or to play a thief. that’s all they can use to defend their laughably overpowered class. even many thieves admit that stealth is whacked in this game. I’ve never seen a game where one class can initiate AND continue attacks while in stealth. In addition, other games also don’t have culling bugs that can be exploited to create perma stealth.

DanH.5879:

Columba.9730:

So you agree with me about relative performance of thieves vs rangers in WvWvW?

dude, i don’t care about your wvw complaints, how about my complaints that i am kicked from fractals/dungeons parties because my class sux ???

to each his own. I don’t care about your dungeon complaints. beef up the thief for dungeons/fractals for all i care. no issue with me. the glaring lack of balance with thieves in wvwvw is what bothers me.

oZii.2864:

Cause your sylvari is a door!

it’s a knob.

not with culling. one class can get huge advantages from it.

thief, hands down. Perma stealth, highest dps in the game, best mobility. not even close.

Wizardauz.3761:

How about you rely on the skill you have with your profession then some ridiculous in-game, non-balanced items?

Its one thing to have a tree branch that can stun drop from an Oakheart (atleast im pretty sure) but it doesnt replace the abilities your class has and suddenly outshines them by offering a gimmick to rely on.

I use food/oil. I also use Blessings as well.

I dont use skale venom because i just dont see the good in it, i dont think it makes or breaks your match. But is skale venmon really needed to win that duel? So that crit you just made useless with weakness (or made into a glancing blow) that you got from skale venom allowed you to noob-face-tank that high dmg move he just casted on you, instead of having to dodge, and react accordingly. Yup thats Tooootally skill right there.

Because yes, that is what skill is, not learning how to view battle, when to dodge, and how to go about initiating an attack on someone. Its about spamming buttons and getting as many game mechanics on your side that you know about rather then your opponent.

Wow my level of expectation to the quality of pvpers in this game has now been severely put into perspective.

Some classes don’t get perma stealth. Until its eliminated, I plan to use these consumables against the class that gets it.

In the meantime can stealth cool downs be increased to offset the free stealth that those classes get to enable perma stealthing? thanks.

This original referenced the culling bug and an offset to stealth to compensate the non-stealth classes. Thanks.

I measured 32% of my arrows either being obstructed or simply disappearing and doing nothing in open world WvWvW. Can we get a fix or a dps increase to compensate?

So you agree with me about relative performance of thieves vs rangers in WvWvW?

Lol stiv and many other thieves admit that rangers are hugely disadvantaged vs thieves. It’s a joke. CND off of the pet that loses the target, perma stealth, on and on. Heck thieves have constantly voted rangers as their easiest target. There’s no rational debate on this.

They are so overpowered that I only use them on thieves to provide a chance of balance.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Columba.9730:

Why does CND work on inanimate objects?

Probably the same reason you can’t light a wooden door on fire.

Lol, then my sylvari should be immune!

This is interesting. Good find. I guess this proves that perma stealth is indeed happening. The only reason that thief didn’t kill enemies was that he was trying to rezz.

Which arc within 360 degrees should we turn to avoid backstab, if we can’t see thieves.

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Wrong . Perma stealth + highest dps is god mode.

Except for the 10k+ hits from permastealthed thieves, I am ok with the damage. You can usually avoid the other big hits

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Or If Immobilized/ Stunned/KD’d/launched etc’d.
But anyways it’s clear to me your mind works in a bubble, so I recall why I avoid this thread. Full of nonsense.

Generally need to know where you are to do that. It’s easy to avoid those.

Reasonable thieves agree that there’s a problem with stealth as implemented.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Umm, there’s a lot more to. WvWvW than spirit stacking. Do honestly claim that rangers are better than thieves in WvWvW?

Daecollo.9578:

Columba.9730:

Altie.4571:

Columba.9730:

In WvWvW, thieves already get perma stealth due to culling. Thieves already have great escape tools. The other classes with good mobility also have low health, so I don’t get your points.

We’re talking about fixing the class not game bugs.

They already know about game bugs. Please focus.

They are linked. While culling is broken, stealth needs to be adjusted.

And how are you going to compensate?

There’s no need to compensate. It’s fixing a bug.

Altie.4571:

Columba.9730:

In WvWvW, thieves already get perma stealth due to culling. Thieves already have great escape tools. The other classes with good mobility also have low health, so I don’t get your points.

We’re talking about fixing the class not game bugs.

They already know about game bugs. Please focus.

They are linked. While culling is broken, stealth needs to be adjusted.

Why does CND work on inanimate objects?

In WvWvW, thieves already get perma stealth due to culling. Thieves already have great escape tools. The other classes with good mobility also have low health, so I don’t get your points.

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Daecollo.9578:

Columba.9730:

We don’t need to guess what a warrior is going to do. We either see it or see the traits that precede the moves. Not true at all with thieves.

How can you see it comming unless he opens up with it? If I’m in melee range (100 meters.) and i’m already initiated the fight, he could assume I don’t even have that ability, then I could suddenly out of nowhere just use it and 100b, he wouldn’t expect it.

They can’t come out of nowhere. They don’t have permastealth. Secondly, there are typical sequences we can SEE those. Secondly, thieves haven’t been nerfed much in WvWvW.

Yes. I still never see thieves when they attack. Due to culling, they remain 100% stealthed.

We don’t need to guess what a warrior is going to do. We either see it or see the traits that precede the moves. Not true at all with thieves.

The issue is that with culling, thieves get perma stealth (virtually) without having to spec high in stealth lines for it. So they can beef up either dps or their defenses and get benefits of full stealth.

The only solution offered is for the rest of the classes to be mindreaders to guess where they are (lol), run away, or to play thieves. That’s what the thief apologists offer as solution. Clearly thieves are overpowered if these are the answers.

Thieves tear up warriors in WvWvW.

Yep. Culling is worse, and meanwhile perma stealthed thieves continue to dominate in WvWvW.

Warriors are fine. I can see them and avoid their damage. They aren’t the class that needs a nerf.

Yes it’s terrible.

it’s still giving thieves perma stealth without having to spec for it.

oZii.2864:

Columba.9730:

I’m sorry, but since culling provides perma stealth, thieves can boost other stats/traits. a thief in our guild claims that he can stay perma stealthed, has 100% crit, 16k health, 3k armor and 2800 attack. he agrees that he can pretty much get into a full group and take out an enemy, escaping unscathed. so yes, culling allows thieves to get full stealth without speccing for it.

I’m willing to bet most of his targets are underleveled, other thieves, or whatever he feels is the softest target there is. He probably gets in downs someone and probably gets no stomp.

really so he doesn’t have 15 points in shadow arts? Gotta be running d/p, blinding powder, shadow refuge, maybe smoke screen.

The weapons set that gives you the most uptime on stealth is d/p if he isnt running that then he isn’t this perma stealth build you speak of.

To do what you claim he has to trait for stealth which is the shadow arts tree there is no way to keep it up without traiting into shadow arts for infusion of shadow.

What is running some 30/30/0/10 build or maybe its 30/30/0/0/10 rofl totally optimal and not 1 trick at all.

A glass ele can do the same thing you know that right go in kill someone and leave. Want a video of that? I can grab it easily as well as other classes going in killing someone in a group and leaving or killing more than 1 person in a group and leaving.

Glass cannons purpose is to burst someone down and leave. Who specs glass and tries to fight a full group? I’m assuming full group is 5.

his spec doesn’t look like a glass cannon to me. the toughness is decent as is the health. Also he claims that he doesn’t need to spec high to get perma stealth since the culling bug does most of the work for him.

MeGaZlo.9516:

I think warrior with a rifle can do damage not less than the Ranger with a pet. As for the “right of control”, you did try? Pet has “inhibited” reaction to commands, and often runs through AoE, where it can be avoided. In the end, he dies on his own stupidity and not the fault of the owners. In addition pupils are not trying to go behind his back to the enemy, from which die in the melee of Cleve. Remote pets weak and “skew”. In the end, it turns out, the warrior and the best ranger in distance fighting.

I think the developers need to either warrior nerf or buff other classes. I think it is wrong, when after playing warrior or guardian for any other class, clearly felt that this class is definitely worse.

i don’t have any problem with warriors on my ranger. I can see them and avoid their big hits. Thieves are the real problem.

I’m sorry, but since culling provides perma stealth, thieves can boost other stats/traits. a thief in our guild claims that he can stay perma stealthed, has 100% crit, 16k health, 3k armor and 2800 attack. he agrees that he can pretty much get into a full group and take out an enemy, escaping unscathed. so yes, culling allows thieves to get full stealth without speccing for it.

Dog.1472:

SoR’s enthusiasm is cute, but BG was the same way at first and they ended up losing out to JQ with half the points by the end of last reset. Let’s see if you guys can keep it up.

wow. good sportsmanship. lol

I only use my GS on the god mode thieves.

Kaon.7192:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Kaon.7192:

bhagwad.4281:

Posting here at moderator’s request: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Remove-stealth-on-miss-evade-block/first#post1356947

There have been times when a thief stealths and I start moving around, dodging etc to avoid a backstab. It works and I see a “Evade” or “Block” or “Miss” or “Invulnerable” message on my screen, but still no thief. This gives them yet another chance to fix the botched attack.

It seems to me that these missed attacks should unstealth the thief. They mucked up. Now pay the price. How do they get to have yet more shots when I lucked out once by dodging at the right time?

As a thief myself, I absolutely agree with this.
If you miss a backstab you shouldn’t be allowed to repeat it every half a second until you land it.

Miss should bring you out of stealth at the very least, so you can’t spam any more stealth attacks. Revealed debuff probably shouldn’t be applied here since there’s no damage being done.

With this changed, those GC BS builds might finally have a high enough skill barrier to match that burst potential.

Agreed and disagreed. “Miss” on itself shouldn’t bring us out of stealth, what if I accidentally pressed attack while my enemy was still on the horizon? (for example my cat tripped on my keyboard). I’m a thief, and I wouldn’t mind being unstealthed when the attack is blocked, blinded or evaded however.

Missing means the thief failed to land the attack, plain and simple. It is a mistake on the thief’s part, whether it be from a genuine positioning error, misclick, cat on keyboard, or any combination of the above. Mistakes should have opportunity costs. And the opportunity cost for missing a backstab right now is about half a second before you can backstab again by just spamming 1, which I honestly don’t think is enough for a skill that can easily turn the tides of battle once it landed.

That’s just it. Under the current set of mechanics, thieves get all the rewards for zero risk.

great fights tonight in JQ BL. the fight at cragtop was epic.

hard to blame people. my guild has people who play thieves. they admit that the class is op in wvwvw and brag about how well they can troll the enemy. I feel sorry for them in pve though.

I wish that thieves would render first. I can live with others slowly rendering since their dps is much lower than that of thieves.

With perma stealth due to culling, those were insufficient adjustments.

There’s a lot more to WvWvW than using rams. How about giving thieves a special seige skill in exchange for increasing stealth cool downs? That might offset the huge advantage that culling gives thieves.

^^ Agreed. good escape would be one thing. Perma stealth and massive dps on top of that is laughable.

t1 means long queues. that’s the big difffernece

Lofat.2406:

This thread is becoming a waste of space… Same argument over and over… “Thieves are bad because they perma stealth and because of culling…”

Get used to it… It’s wvw, not spvp. You want balance, don’t come to wvw. And please, don’t come back with “It’s not fun, it’s not fair”, or something else that isn’t in our control….

why do you think it’s fair for one class to dominate in wvw?

no! No more gear grinds.