only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
the problem is that anet has allowed perma stealth, the highest dps and the best mobility all on one class. it’s possible because culling allows permastealth without even speccing for it. that’s how he could take out those vet mobs and be perma stealthed. all we can do is to respectfully provide feedback.
Doesn’t have the highest dps. It has the highest burst(steal cnd bs) that has a 30s recharge rate. You can still cnd/bs but that wouldnt be the highest burst.
Who bursts more than a rogue using cnd and BS? I usually see a fully geared rogue hit me for 12-15k with those two alone with steal adding another 2.5-5k depending on crits. A kill shot does only about 12k to me and a shatter usually hits me for around 10-12k .
Rogues can do the BS and C&D every few seconds, and hit with BS more times if they use utilities and their heal, both warriors and mesmers have cool downs.
A full glass warrior can volley for 10K, then killshot for 12, or just switch to GS and whirling GS into them. Or you can run shield axe and evicerate. The axe autoattack is a nasty little bugger too. I’ve seen glass cannon guardians also down glass thieves(usually 10.8K-14K HP) in 3 seconds. Engi burst can also get nasty, although it might not hit more than thieves. Ele’s have 16K burst, but has a long CD. Mesmer’s also have some pretty insane shatter/furry builds that has low CDs.
Most classes can actually achieve the same amount of burst.
they also can’t go invisible every 2 seconds and run away from anything without any fear.
any other glass class is kittened against multiple opponents. thieves can take on a zerg and stop them capping a camp, or keep WPs contested by perma stealth wall hitting.
the only people who think thieves are not broken are people who play thieves and don’t want them nerfed even though they also know they are broken, and people who don’t play GW2.
actually, the thieves in my guild admit that thieves are completely op’d in wvw. they are recommending that ANET provide a reveal debuff on attacks and damage to balance this class. It’s for the good of the game.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
i thought i would get this response from the ranger community, as ppl when they play a class they hate 2 admit its overpowered in some areas and always think their class is underpowered and need buffs, same story with ele and thief community, might as well make necro’s marks not viewable, hey lets make all aoe not viewable then let me see QQing about being hit by things u cant see with very small cd. hiding behind things such as “L2P” is very pathetic as its an attempt to hide the fact that there are some areas which rangers can beat any other class with, and u cant then “L2P” yourself, anyone who says rangers arent op needs 2 “L2P” as they r not using their class the right way, i seen a trap ranger destroy every single build people brought. as dev said that they are looking closely to traps, so the nerf is coming, not as soon as the ele nerf but it will come and thats where i will look back at this thread and laugh as people not able 2 use a very good class blaming other people saying to them “L2P”.
thieves say the same thing. Happy to make traps visible if thieves become visible when damaged or when they attack. deal?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Thiefs can be beaten with aoe, knockbacks and cc. eles can be beaten with condition or high burst, so far im yet to find a counter for that ranger build, if u do know plz let me know, since its not op as u say then there must be a way 2 counter them? if so i would like 2 know it. rangers may need buffs in some builds i agree, however the trap/condition/evade combo is a nasty one and should be nerfed
only if you can see said thieves. Most thieves admit that rangers are their easiest opponent.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Theif should be s tier do you have any clue how easy it is for a theif to kill a guardian/elementalist? guardian lack ranged so they can just use crippling dagger then weaken them from range and make them waist all cooldowns and further attack until health go low then just jump in and burst them down. elementalist is pretty much the same but there you wanna use range because they jump all over the place a lot then heart seek them down once their vulnerable.
agreed. thieves are in a class all their own in wvw. takes multiple players to kill one.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
plus they can spam heartseeker.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
slowly until perma stealthing via culling is eliminated. hey there are thieves in my guild calling for automatic reveals anytime a thief attacks. I am not going that far at least. not yet.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
simple slightly increase the stealth debuff time.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
No worse than most? They’re base survivability is worse than everything but the Elementalist.
Lowest Health bracket.
Medium armor.
Only thing worse is Lowest health bracket + light armor. Which is the Ele…I’m telling you roll that stealthless thief brah, do it and gain some perspective.
You’ll be surprised on both ends.
who’s talking about stealthless thieves? I am talking about minor adjustments to thieves. It’s irrational to claim that thieves are untouchables and can never have their stealth adjusted. all classes get their skills adjusted. adapt and move on. you can’t handcuff the developers to fix badly broken stealth mechanics in wvw. it’s not reasonable and it’s melodramatic.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Considering thieves need to get behind you for a backstab, it’s kind of obvious where you need to place your AOE…
Indeed, but if we are constantly moving to prevent backstab, it’s not so obvious where to aoe.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
the problem is that anet has allowed perma stealth, the highest dps and the best mobility all on one class. it’s possible because culling allows permastealth without even speccing for it. that’s how he could take out those vet mobs and be perma stealthed. all we can do is to respectfully provide feedback.
Doesn’t have the highest dps. It has the highest burst(steal cnd bs) that has a 30s recharge rate. You can still cnd/bs but that wouldnt be the highest burst.
Who bursts more than a rogue using cnd and BS? I usually see a fully geared rogue hit me for 12-15k with those two alone with steal adding another 2.5-5k depending on crits. A kill shot does only about 12k to me and a shatter usually hits me for around 10-12k .
Rogues can do the BS and C&D every few seconds, and hit with BS more times if they use utilities and their heal, both warriors and mesmers have cool downs.
A full glass warrior can volley for 10K, then killshot for 12, or just switch to GS and whirling GS into them. Or you can run shield axe and evicerate. The axe autoattack is a nasty little bugger too. I’ve seen glass cannon guardians also down glass thieves(usually 10.8K-14K HP) in 3 seconds. Engi burst can also get nasty, although it might not hit more than thieves. Ele’s have 16K burst, but has a long CD. Mesmer’s also have some pretty insane shatter/furry builds that has low CDs.
Most classes can actually achieve the same amount of burst.
The difference is that I can actually avoid the bursts of enemies quite easily. since thieves have huge dps and perma stealth, it’s impossible to avoid them without mind reading.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Noone really gives a rip about badges… I have dealt with BS thieves fairly well before but the issue with haste backstab combos is that the rendering issue takes so long that they are nearly halfway through their combo before I even have a target and by then my health is done… And this is coming from a defensive build. NowI know other classes have access to haste/quickness/stealth mesmers have timewarp and a couple invis skills and timewarp is great for groups but it is centered around an area and not on one specific player. Warriors have frenzy but they take double damage. Rangers have hide in plain sight for a certain amount of time and quickening zephyr. But none of these other classes are as rewarded for the combination of stealth AND quickness like thieves. And before you have the audacity to stay use stun breakers or a block or some other random bs. Think about the amount of time it takes compared to the amount of time it takes their combo to finish while hasted. If the computer can’t register that a player is there in that amount of time how can we and then also react. This is broken and please don’t try to argue other wise.
Why take it out on one class? Culling is the real issue, not thieves.
well i kind of agree. however, thieves can use culling to stay perma stealthed and reach the highest dps, so something must be done.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
honestly, their vitality and toughness is no worse than half the classes. in addition, their mobility is better than most. so some losses in stealth aren’t breaking for thieves.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
With the above said, thieves are very squishly, if you ever play one, you will understand what i mean. If you take their ability to stealth away then they will be useless in WvW since they rely mostly on close combat.
AoE is your best bet when fighting a thief, also most thieves deliver their max dmg in their opening strikes, if you dodge the first couple then you have outlived it.
So over hearing AoE is the solution, Randomly throwing out long cooldown AoE’s to somehow target an area where an invisible opponent might be. Such a BS solution. Or swing around wildly hoping that you might hit them.
And have you even seen the latest thief builds that heal while they are stealthed. Watch their youtube clips and see how tough they are. New builds are out, they are not that squishy anymore.
aoe is not really a practical answer to permastealthed thieves. it assumes that you know where to place your aoe, which is nearly impossible.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
yes we can see them attacking and remaining stealthed. We experience permastealthed thieves attacking. I already explained the hypothesis that culling allows this without 20 in shadow arts.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
it’s been shown that tab targetting doesn’t work while targets are culled. I’ve tried it myself.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Well, this post and the videos posted are evidence that permastealth happens. someone even posted a video with how to permastealth in the title. So I respecfully disagree.
Disagree with what lol ? I said there is no such thing as perma stealth while doing damage, hello revealed mechanics and im right. All other is culling.
Yet we experience getting damaged by thieves while never seeing them. plenty of vidoes show thieves killing enemies while never being seen. So again, I respectfully disagree.
Oh columba you see what you want to see! Culling and Stealth are 2 different things is what he is saying. When you attack from stealth you are revealed if I don’t render on Columba’s screen because he is using a Mac from 1996 then I don’t know it I don’t think I am still in stealth and I sure don’t have access to stealth skills like backstab because your Mac didn’t render me on screen fast enough.
well your assumptions are incorrect. I have 2 gig video, 16 gig ram, i5 quad core, ssd drive. so it’s not my system. To be honest for thieves, culling vs stealth are symantics because thieves can use culling to stay perma stealthed, unlike other classes that eventually emerge. 3 seconds of culling invisibility is very common.
lastly, it’s been proven that culling is server side not client side, so your personal attacks don’t really make sense.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The problem with your position is that the evidence is against you. both the videos splashed all over these forums, and our personal experience refute your assertion that permastealth while dealing damage is impossible. I agree that on paper it’s impossible, but in reality it happens all the time. I suppose bridging culling with stealth allows it. I think this is the crux of the issue. Theory says this shouldnt be possible, yet we all experience permastealth + damage from thieves all the time. If anet prevents this, I think the arguments would reduce.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Well, this post and the videos posted are evidence that permastealth happens. someone even posted a video with how to permastealth in the title. So I respecfully disagree.
Disagree with what lol ? I said there is no such thing as perma stealth while doing damage, hello revealed mechanics and im right. All other is culling.
Yet we experience getting damaged by thieves while never seeing them. plenty of vidoes show thieves killing enemies while never being seen. So again, I respectfully disagree.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Tab doesn’t work when the target is culled. that’s part of the problem with stealth in this game. it allows stealthers to bridge non-stealth periods with stealth periods to get perma stealth even though they don’t have to spec for it.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.
Go take.
S/P + P/P
P/P + SB
or S/P +SB.
No stealth heal or utils.
Go run in WvW and try for the keep.
Know no one will ever lose target on you and you don’t have protection.
Go dodge all you want since you’re not doing anything significant to anybody while you do so. Not like you have Phantasm’s attacking while you dodge, or a Pet coming at you.
Serious you’ll see how narrow the defenses of the proffession are and the relevancy of stealth.Should not form an idea on where Stealth needs to be if you have not seen what life without Stealth is. It’s just a bunch of dodging around without seperable damage and dying once sneezed on because target never breaks, so you have all this homing crap on you without Protection reducing any of it or a high hp buffer.
I don’t buy it. Every class has a narrow window of performance, thieves are no exception. What you are arguing is that no changes to stealth can ever take place because the class is too narrowly balanced. I disagree. That’s simply impossible and unreasonable as an expectation. small changes won’t break the class. Small changes to stealth can and will be made.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thanks for admitting that it’s possible. secondly, with culling it’s doable without giving up anything.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
so if spamming it’s so useless, why are people arguing against preventing the ability to spam it?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
no one is talking about eliminating stealth. small adjustments won’t kill your class, and they will make wvwvw far more fair. permastealth and the best dps in the game, combined with high mobility are a bad combination in one class.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Well, this post and the videos posted are evidence that permastealth happens. someone even posted a video with how to permastealth in the title. So I respecfully disagree.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
honestly, i could almost live with the culling issues, if it weren’t for the perma stealth problems. that’s what makes me log off in disgust.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Unclear whether it’s a hack or not. However, perma stealth is completely imbalancing and needs to get fixed, I agree. Despite what some thieves claim, they can attack and remain stealthed the entire time. check out the numerous videos showing as much. All I can suggest is to send respectful and persistant feedback to anet.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It’s unreasonable to claim that stealth can never be touched. besides the nerfs were in spvp. the wvw nerfs were trivial. based on the length of this thread, they clearly weren’t enough. nevertheless I think that anet should adjust stealth first. it’s the game breaker in wvw right now.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
check out the videos on the thief forum. there are a few showing one thief successfully fighting 2-5 others. pretty clear which class excels as a soloer in wvw.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
There are many other things I’d adjust to be more like spvp before I’d get to confusion. cloak and dagger, backstab and heartseeker first, to make up for culling advantages.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
No I don’t see the problem. Are you claiming that any minor change would decimate thieves? Why can other classes live with minor changes, but somehow thieves can’t?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thank you. this was very helpful.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thanks for sharing these. they are quite helpful.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
In my experience yes.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
he has vitality. he has decent toughness. why does he deserve to die instantly? his objection is he never sees the character that kills him.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
the problem is that anet has allowed perma stealth, the highest dps and the best mobility all on one class. it’s possible because culling allows permastealth without even speccing for it. that’s how he could take out those vet mobs and be perma stealthed. all we can do is to respectfully provide feedback.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
i usually get 5 dps classes to kill him while he's down.yet again thief apologists chant l2p anything anything is questioned about thieves. just get others to help you kill the thief.
You’re everywhere when it comes to “thieves”
Like post said before thieves have a teleport you have a window to stomp him if he blinks use skills like(steal,blinks to finish him off without interrupting the cast time of the stomp.) there if you wait another 2 seconds he can go stealth but doesnt reposition himself, here is where you autoattack spam. Simple enough?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Please set thieves equal to their state in spvp. that seems fair.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’ve yet to see what thieves give up for survivability, particularly in wvwvw.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thieves have cc and stealth though too.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Well your central argument is that thieves are not popular in tournament play. I simply point out that this isn’t about tournament play.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Not really. ranged classes get damaged from other ranged classes, so taking damage isn’t solely happening to thieves. Also there are gap closers for melee classes, so all these classes are facing the same challenges.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The issue is that this is the wvwvw forum, not tournament.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I would love more attractive armor and would pay real money for them.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
understood, but other classes are just as squishy and face similar challenges.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
far far worse. giving stealthers a huge advantage.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thief/thief.
instant death on most targets by one thief alone, let alone two and then you can just run away.
/easiestclassever
yeah i witnessed two of them killing players in a 5 person group the other night. they just couldn’t be killed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Necros need a buff, like more grab/control skills. Right now they seem to have a lack of build diversity. Eles can down more than 1 person easily. Guardians may not be able to kill people in a 1 v 3, but add in a teammate and they provide more than enough support to really turn the tide on a 2v3 or a 2v4.
We’re talking about one person soloing multiple people here, which should never happen unless you’re fighting a bunch of up leveled players. Adding a teammate changes things significantly and is not what we’re discussing.
A bunker ele does not down people “easily”. It requires effort on their part. Bunker builds lack damage output.
Only do max damage after a person is below 10%? That’s just ridiculous. So an average person with 20k health at 10% would have 2,000 health. So your saying heartseekers max damage should never really exceed 2k based on a 20k health pool.
Can’t put a cooldown on a wep ability for thieves, we go off initiative. One or the other, not both.
If someone lets a thief heartseeker them to death then they should die.
Is it spammable? Yes
Is it a cheap way to fight? Yes
Is it avoidable? Yes
Can it be evaded? Yes
Can you stun, immobilize, CC? Probably YesI disagree with all of these points. The balancing is seriously out of whack with this class. I don’t say this as someone who fights against thieves. I say this AS a thief. I should not be able to do what we can do against multiple foes. There is a reason so many people are complaining about us.
Heartseeker was designed to be a sort of execute skill. Everyone should be familiar with what Execute did in the game that should not be mentioned. Imagine if that skill worked at 25% instead of 10%. Now imagine it being spammable. Now also imagine that every time you used it, it automatically jumped you next to your target regardless of positioning. Now imagine that ability in the hands of that games thief class. Now imagine the outcry. Would be a lot like it is in this game, don’t you think?
Heartseeker is just way to easy to spam to victory with. I’ve done it. You’ve done it. Denying it doesn’t change the fact its so ridiculously effective. It needs its damaged towned down or a cool down added. As it is right now, its OP as all hell. It simply does to much. Especially for a paltry 3 initiative.
this guy knows the truth. I agree with you 100% and I’ve played thieves.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.
Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.
last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.
Use Tab next time, even if “culling” is there you can target the thief.
Thank you. However, that doesn’t really work. I’ve tried.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.