well none of my ranger weapon skills work under water either.
You unlock underwater weapon skills by using the weapon in combat, same as regular weapon skills. If they are broken I am sorry, they oughta be fixed asap. Underwater is poorly done, combat wise.
The OP was talking about utility skills.
My utility skills don’t work underwater either.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Maybe a stealth attack should remove stealth at the beginning of the attack
I’m just trying to be constructive at finding a reasonable compromise
This assume that culling for WvW players will be fix
This, with a 1/2sec (or3/4) cast time backstab maybe?
In your opinion how bad/good it would be?
i think that this is a good compromise. seems reasonable.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.
Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.
last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Well that’s painfully obvious… Yet you still demand nerfs.
Why anyone here is still responding to you, I don’t know.
You took it out of context and made a personal attack. I dont understand his rationale. Who’s calling for nerfs? they said permastealth was useless anyway. I am asking that it be prevented. that’s not a nerf.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Ok so if culling doesn’t help thieves, then why are all of you saying that it’s culling that we have problems with and to wait until culling is fixed before we look at nerfing thieves?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.
You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.
You sure are one only track minded, listen carefully. Nerfing something completly USELESS makes no sense since it’ll nerf useless builds that require a bit of stealth to work out.
so your argument is that we shouldn’t remove something that is completely useless to thieves because it will wreck useless builds? just seeking to understand your point. I guess my question is why would it matter if those are useless builds. Can you prove that it would ruin decent builds?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
yeah i have a 670 ftw 2 gig video card, 16gigs ram, SSD and I have culling issues. culling is on their end not ours. I can’t explain how some thieves get perma stealth AND high dps. i can only explain it with culling.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Leaving assassins behind enemy lines with a little trail of evidence actually sounds like legitimate tactical strategy to me, but that’s just my opinion on it. Besides you can knock someone out of the permanent stealth by having a person walk up to the smoke cloud. If the heartseeker nicks someone, the thief will be revealed. You need a fair amount of room to pull that off.
agreed, but with culling unfortunately, that reveal doesn’t happen as it should. this is why thieves aren’t getting complaints from spvp. rather the myriad complaints in this thread alone are from wvwvw.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.
You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.
I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.
He even admits it’s useless to argue with him, and his only goal is to prevent perma stealth. We pointed out how useless a real permastealth build is, we even debunked his own arguments towards perma stealth. He is the true definition of a troll. There is no arguing with him as he doesn’t understand facts, or others points of view. One track mind, with the goal of nerfing thief to the ground so he can feel special when he wins against one finally.
no. I just don’t agree with perma stealth, and you say it’s useless anyway, so why do you care? If perma stealth is useless, how is reducing it nerfing the thief into the ground? I just don’t understand. I think most reasonable people don’t think that permastealth is good for the game.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.
Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.
How’s that going to fix culling? Increasing the cooldown of stealth won’t fix it, thieves can still spam CnD on non-moving targets and you won’t see them because of culling, even is stealth has 10000sec cooldown.
Yes I don’t feel like stealth needs any changes, only bug fix. And yes I still think perma-stealth is useless, taking it away or not is the same thing for me since is so useless, what’s your point?
my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.
I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Actually, we get directed here to provide feedback on thieves. that’s what i am doing. CnD should have a cooldown in wvw due to the culling bug, yes. once they fix the culling bug, then it could be looked at again to determine if its needed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Just look at his post history Rylark, pages of posts against thieves. He won’t be happy till thieves are nerfed beyond play, or eliminated from the game.
NO, I’ve stated quite clearly that I want to see stealth cool down timers increased to make up for culling bug abuses.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.
Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
i didn’t see him in the same spot, lol. Perma stealth is extremely helpful. enemies cannot target you, you can wear enemies down, rezz friends without ever being targetted. in taking camps, you can stay out of sight when enemies come, lol. if you can’t see how it’s useful, perhaps you should….l2p!
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.
A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.
Squad waiting outside.
Portal.
Portal.
Kill Lord without even starting an alert.
Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.
Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.
What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.
I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?
Congrats, I was wrong. Yet, I want to see you using that in tournaments. I can see your own team flamming you to death with such useless build.
I am not discussing tournaments. I am discussion wvwvw where permastealth is completely imbalanced. If you’d like wvwvw to have the same nerfs for thieves as spvp, that’s fine by me, as long as they fix culling/stealth combos.
At least you can admit that permastealth is easily doable. with culling bugs, you don’t even have to give up much.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Stonemist gets taken. A few mesmers die inside and don’t release.
A thief perma-stealths inside and cannot be found. Once people have left the area after doing several thorough sweeps, he resses the mesmers.
Squad waiting outside.
Portal.
Portal.
Kill Lord without even starting an alert.
Pretty much breaks the whole of WvW I think you will find.
Stealth like that has no place in the current game. It needs to be fixed.
What’s the point of perma-stealth if you do no damage at all? I’d actually love to fight 5 perma stealth thieves, oh yea get lord what now? I’ll be waiting for your 3k backstab while we’ve 3 points captured and when you appear get ready a burst that you can’t do.
I thought that you claimed perma stealth is impossible?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…
actually not obvious or helpful. Any decent thief moves away from said smoke, and it’s not easy to see. they should make it as glaringly obvious as portals if not more obvious. Lol wth 1900 toughness and 3k armor, backstab hits me for 4500+. NO idea what you are referring to with 1.5k .
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The perma stealth was a bug and it’s fixed long ago, stealth has now a time limitation.
No. It’s still possible. See the recent video. Secondly with culling its easy.
Could you please link me the vid you’re talking about?
I’ve fought against thieves and the culling isn’t that big, that’s just an excuse. The culling issue, at least what I’ve seen, was never more 0.5sec, not even close.
It’s on this forum. Front page.
Lol culling is longer than 0.5s. People wouldn’t be this upset over 0.5 s, lol
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
1st: No you can’t get 100% stealth, it’s impossible.
2nd: You run out of endurance after your 2 dodges, unless you’re a caltrop thief.
3rd: IA uses a lot of initiative, and if you’re CC that won’t break through it. SS has a lot of cooldown which won’t alow you to run through CC forever. You’re not a thief for sure, stop creating fake arguments to get thief nerfed.
Wrong. How do you explain the perma stealth video posted in this forum. Second with culling its easy.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???
Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.
No such thing as a “PvP” class in this game, and if it is, its behind all others.
In high dungeons thief isn’t needed, that just basicly tells you there’s better classes for PvE. Thief/assassin in almost every MMO is a PvP class, nerfing thief in PvP and buffing him on PvE is non-sense.
Pvp class? Sorry, there is no such things as pve or pvp classes in here, and not really in other mmo’s either.
Yes there is, assassin/thief/rogue w/e in almost every MMO is the best or one of the best 1v1 pvp class. Because they’re focused on bursting one single target down as quick as possible, that makes him a good pvp class.
No there isn’t any such thing as a pvp class, sorry. All classes should be equally fun in all facets of the game.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Wow, awesome. I’m going to buy a ton of those and specifically use them for as long as I can against every Thief I can find. It’s payback time and I have stability! :P
ANet should have nerfed Stealth on thieves; now I’m going to nerf thieves myself by permastunning their kitten See how they like to die over and over from a cheap gimmick. And then I’ll tell them L2P!
This is my plan as well. It’s about time we get something to balance WvWvW vs thieves.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
its a 360 degree arc. where should I use the aoe that anet advises we use to fight stealthers?
If you think a back attack is imminent, then behind you or around you. Personally I don’t blow my cooldowns unless I think it’s a sure shoot, instead I stay moving and swiping my auto attack (sword for the record). I generally go in a circle if I have no leads, so I’m that much more unapproachable.
well thank you. i do that indeed. unfortunately, decent thieves don’t seem to move in that sort of path, but I shall continue to attempt that.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???
sounds great to me. although I’d like to see the nerf simply offset the benefits thieves get from the culling bug and guarantee 3 seconds of visibility no matter what.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
its a 360 degree arc. where should I use the aoe that anet advises we use to fight stealthers? I’ve tried all sorts of directions, i constantly move, i turn constantly and use evade skills. yet somehown I get back stabbed, and somehow i never see the attacking thieves. I also cannot seem to reliably hit said thief with my aoe.. I would dearly appreciate any help you can provide to balance these fights. thank you for your help.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Its funny how only thieves are the ones that say we are noobs when we can’t kill them. Funny that.
their response is either learn how to read minds, run away or play a thief. if you explain that those aren’t reasonable options, then you get the l2p mantra.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I love that video, keep posting it everywhere. It pretty much proves this:
- The thief beats terrible players
- The thief quickly beats uplevelled players
- The thief admits that smart players give him trouble
- The thief admits that many duels with dagger elementalists can last up to 8 minutes
- The thief can trait for different things (shock, horror!) and one of those includes initiative regen
- There are a TON of really bad players in WvWvW
- There are a TON of really bad players who regardless of the ways to counter a thief and regardless of how many times you tell them still won’t get it
Honestly, I hardly even need to mention some of that zerg (which in actual fact he barely annoyed) killed themselves going over the cliff. 99% of them didn’t even care he was there at all.
I’ll quote Jonathan Sharp here:
“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”
Exactly what you saw in the video – mobility, stealth, high DPS burst and taking on chosen targets which are natuarlly squishy, uplevelled or… I dunno, maybe just there to make up a zerg and get some karma or something. Anytime anyone with any clue at all turned their attention on the thief he was in trouble.
Still, I guess he doesn’t post videos of himself getting his kitten handed to him. I mean it doesn’t take much, you can see his health and sats. I have similar armor/toughness on my thief and let me tell you I fold like a wet paper bag against good players regardless if I’m in stealth or not.
ok so highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility? if so, that’s broken. It’s always the same thing with you guys. Anyone who questions your god mode needs to l2p. why is it that thieves get 10x+ the complaints of other classes, and we don’t see these players complaining about other classes? logic disconnect.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
In short, this game has become a lot like wow. if you like grinding dungeons, you get the best gear. if you like to wvw only, you get the worst.
It realty has not the major thing that keep this game form ever becoming WoW like is the fact that you can roll and preform combos. There is a level of skill that you do not need in WoW to play.
Saying GW2 is like WoW is like saying every fps is like Doom the first one.
what??? it’s like wow in that you must grind dungeon raids to get the best gear.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I disagree with most of this. the most game breaking issue in wvw is the culling bug and the resulting perma stealth that thieves get without speccing for it.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
