only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The only problem I have with the Thief is the next to permanent stealth builds (thanks to mainly Cloak and Dagger), which makes it impossible to play against, because you can’t counter something you can’t see.
This is not true. Here is why, from someone who leveled and geared a Thief to learn how to beat them.
A thief using Cloak and Dagger to stealth 90% of the time is extremely predictable and easy enough to counter. Why? Because CnD requires something to stab to gain stealth. If he’s using a player to CnD on, use your AoE or better, knockbacks, on your/their location. If he’s attacking PVE mobs or siege for his stealth, focus on those areas. CnD stealth lasts 3 seconds, 4 with traits. Count it out and use your abilities.
One good knockback, stun, series of critical hits when he’s stealthed or a mistake on his part and the games over. The Thief is either running, downed or low. Victory.
Oh and the “better” permanent stealth build uses d/p, smoke field on 5 and Heartseeker leap for stealth. This doesn’t require melee except to deal damage, blinds at the smoke field and makes escape incredibly easy because you can reapply stealth via pistol5+dagger2 combo while stealthed.
If you’re playing a melee build and getting trolled or beaten by a permanent stealth Thief, this is a “learn to play” issue. You don’t need a target to swing a melee weapon and deal damage or even down a Thief.
It’s not flawless, clever Thieves can still escape sometimes, but it’s a start for those feeling helpless.
aoe? no, doesn’t fix perma stealth from culling.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thieves hit me far harder than warriors ever do. it’s easy to avoid warrior high dps shots. thieves should have a stealth debuff after attacking.
You’re in denial… I don’t see thieves one shotting 80’s for 18k+ like my warrior does with killshot. They are probably light armored GC builds but regardless, thieves can’t do that. And it’s a ranged ability that is so easily followed up with volley for another 10k+…
nope. i can see the kill shot coming. not so with thieves.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
As much as I hate to do it, because i love this game. I’m leaving until ANet fixes it. Completely unplayable.
it’s looking that way for lots of people. Thieves especially benefit from this, and their perma stealth god like abilities are making wvwvw unplayable for many of us.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I honestly think a class rework is required. highest dps, permastealth from culling and best mobility is a laughable combination to give one class.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Nice to see the dolts perpetuating the “internet clueless” paradigm. No idea how life/process development/customer relations/<insert anything> actually works but speak online as the foremost experts on the subject. It’s really just a function of immaturity and ignorance, in the end. Age isn’t a factor, in my experience, as age and maturity correlate poorly in the context of the internet.
In closing, they’re working on it and have been for some time. If you can’t realize they’re actively working on a better solution from the existing posts without your own personal hotline to a developer, you’re beyond help and not really looking for it to be fixed. You just want to rail at someone and the source of your angst likely has little to do with GW2 at all.
edit: In the spirit of full disclosure, I’m also frustrated as are all players doing large scale combat, I’d wager. Everyone needs to realize that there are many constraints and considerations the developers have to factor into their solution space and they may not be readily apparent to us, as the end users. It’s an iterative process and were it a simple issue, it would’ve been remedied already.
This should have been dealt with before launch.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
thieves hit me far harder than warriors ever do. it’s easy to avoid warrior high dps shots. thieves should have a stealth debuff after attacking.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
no improvement. thieves can still get perma stealth without giving anything else up.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Can you please address the thief problem. The thief apologists asked us to wait until culling was fixed. It’s fairly clear that it will take a while. In the meantime, can you scale back stealth so that thieves cannot perma stealth? Thank you.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Yes, I’ve left WvWvW because of thieves on many occasions. It’s no fun fighting a perma stealthed enemy with the best dps in the game. With culling, thieves give up nothing to get perma stealth.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
no, you didn’t explain it. bad players would die to all classes if it were just a l2p issue. Why do the bad players only focus on thieves.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
actually culling isn’t fixed, not for any fights. again if it’s a l2p issue, where are all the complaints against rangers, necros,engineers, etc.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
How long are you planning to wait to adjust thief stealth in wvw, now that the culling solution hasn’t done much to prevent perma stealth? Thanks.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
well, 900 heal, 1800 tough, 2800 armor here, and I still die to thieves in a few seconds without ever seeing them. I dodge within 2 seconds of them stealthing, i use aoes, I have my pets protect me, I constantly move, I don’t knowingly expose my back to them. all to no avail.
easy to say it’s a l2p issue if you are a thief.
I play engineer and mesmer. Engineer is arguably the weakest class in WvW, and yet I kill thieves reliably. Playing mesmer is a complete glass-cannon roflstomp. Honestly, best solution against thieves is having stunbreaks and a “panic-button” skill that either completely disables them or makes you invulnerable somehow.
It honestly amazes me how many people don’t bring stunbreak skills to WvW. A 1 to 2 second stun is usually enough of an opening to completely destroy someone with your nastiest skills.
Also, level 80 characters with decent (rare or better) equipment and a good build will walk all over seriously upleveled (level-70 or below) characters. It’s an unfortunate fact of WvW. No way around it given the current game mechanics.
plenty of panic buttons, all level 80 exotics. 2 stun breakers. thanks though.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
no it’s not fixed. thieves still getting perma stealth.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
because thieves are not fun to fight. they are gone every 2 seconds and then they reappear, backstab and then are gone again.
when they are losing they just stealth and you never see them again. no other class requires as little skill as a thief and has the potential for griefing other than maybe mesmers.
Ahhh, that must be it, because you can’t figure out how to fight against a thief so that clearly means thieves are the players lacking any skill…. tell me that’s not a L2P issue…
not a l2p issue when the culling bug continues to give thieves permastealth, no.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
well, 900 heal, 1800 tough, 2800 armor here, and I still die to thieves in a few seconds without ever seeing them. I dodge within 2 seconds of them stealthing, i use aoes, I have my pets protect me, I constantly move, I don’t knowingly expose my back to them. all to no avail.
easy to say it’s a l2p issue if you are a thief.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
NO, if it were a l2p issue, all classes would have equal complaints. thieves get 90% of the complaints, so, by definition, it cannot simply be a l2p issue. People don’t like perma stealthing, highest dps players who can also move faster in stealth than can most classes unstealthed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
i can see mesmers though. that’s a big difference.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
As for the people saying im just QQing and being outplayed. Once again some stupid chick Thief from the guild Noir on Devonas Rest is just killing people. Whoever she likes. Its not me getting outplayed theres 8 people here vs 2 thieves and nobody can get a kill. Once they down anyone they safeguard/finish. The Commanders pulled the zergs off of them cause we couldnt kill them.
CHEESIEST CLASS IN THE GAME
I know you want to defend your cheap kitten class but its undeniably easy. Assassin classes are suppost to be high risk, high reward. Where the kitten is the risk. They dont even run away when the zerg shows up. They keep their distance and linger like vultures. Heaven forbid they have a gear advantage vs anyone.
Theres no outplaying them. Invis, Invis, Invis, Invis. 4 of us doing that other guys strat of swinging wildly to no success at all. Cause you have to be directly ontop of them when they stealth to have a chance at that but you cant because they dodge roll caltrops to slow or shadow step or steal to something. They make sure your not in melee range when they go in stealth. Wow. Talent.
I’ve played 15 different MMO’s and MMO’s in general for like 10 years. this is too 1 sided. There shouldnt be a class that can freely dance around all the other professions in the game.
Too easy.
NOt sure it’s the cheesiest all of the time. In WvWvWm it certainly is. Highest dps, permastealth and best mobility are a bit much.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Yeah, I don’t get the aoe concerns. Thieves have no problems one shotting people in WvWvW though, yet they remain god mode. I don’t get it.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Thieves in WvWvW need nerfs. Perma stealth, highest burst, fastest run speed. Not even remotely balanced.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Since I never plan to transfer, I am happy that they are making others pay to come to my server.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
With culling, stealth can be permanent.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Funny…I see no mention of the thief. Perhaps it has moved from watch list to action list.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
(edited by Columba.9730)
let’s hope that the culling bug fix addresses the huge imbalance. right now I don’t even rezz thieves on my server.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Another broken stealth mechanic. Send screenshots to anet.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/17/gw2-dev-livestream-jan-17-transcript/
*Do you find any profession to be out of balance like Ele bunker, roamer, thief one shot combo, mesmer portal?
A. Ele bunker is really strong, on our watchlist
Mesmer portal is giving us problems –giving that tool onto other classesEle bunker is really strong, on our watchlist
Mesmer portal is giving us problems –giving that tool onto other classesThere can we close this now? Stealth is not going away devs have no problem with stealth.
So after this entire full page of threads and QQ whats on the watch list? Bunker Ele thank you Anet Devs!! Watch list doesnt mean they will do anything to Bunker Ele.
Doesn’t prove anything. Even if they came out and said the its balanced, we still have a right to provide input.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’m sorry, but due to culling, stealth lasts a lot longer than 4 seconds, and tab targeting doesn’t work.
Tabbing works, with one exception. You can’t be in a zerg. Then again if you aren’t in a zerg, culling doesn’t exist.
(Before you try to argue this, look up the definition of culling in relation to video games. You will see that “culling” is merely the result of a “cap” put on how many sprites can be displayed on screen at any point in time. If you are not trying to render more than that “cap” nothing is culled.)So, if someone is experiencing culling in relation to thieves, they are in a large group, ie. not alone. This means that no solo thief is a threat to them unless they, and all their allies much weaker players than the thief. In this case it’s quite purely a l2p issue.
Many of us experience in non Zerg or group situations, and the tab targetting doesn’t work. 16 gig of ram, 2 gig video ram gtx 670, etc etc.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’m all for a little stealth nerf, but always remember that the thief will only be “perma-stealthed” if you let him.
Without landing his Cloak and Dagger (easily avoidable), he will have to face long cooldowns to get into stealth.
Actually with the culling bug, it’s quite easy to remain perma stealthed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Each page is full of lulz.
Wish they’d tie threads like this to check accounts for a thief. This is about thief gameplay, not QQ about getting killed.
Aside from that, the versatility is what I see in these discussions. Expand that and the types of thieves will become more varied. Torch offhand, better venom sharing, etc. Nothing specific, just along those lines.
Any class in any game with stealth gets a large portion of the complaints. This won’t change.
We’ve been directed here to provide feedback. That’s what we are doing.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’m sorry, but due to culling, stealth lasts a lot longer than 4 seconds, and tab targeting doesn’t work.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Yes, with their perma stealth, massive burst dps and 50% speed buff in stealth, I can’t imagine facing thieves who can earn even more skills in WvWvW. Thieves who leverage the culling bug have already made WvWvW unplayable for me. It’s sad that anet hasn’t balanced the,.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Not extinct in WvWvW since they can perma stealth without giving up anything.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Thieves with massive burst, killing from the shadows the age old problem, or is it?
100% stealth up time is truly ridiculous. Had a friend make a WvW pvp video recently where he was able to take on sometimes 5 or 6 people without pretty much any risk to himself. He even stops and waves at people in some of his videos. Highly amusing.
Thief in tPvP and sPvP is very strong, and their perma stealth builds are not counterable for several classes and builds. Will this be addressed? I doubt it. Personally I think thief class should have to give up a lot to be stealthed all the time.
The deal is that with culling they give up nothing for perma stealth and they can max their dps. It really is sad that anet hasn’t addressed this.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
23k damage in 2 seconds and was never visible. Lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
there’s a feedback thread in the thief forum. I encourage you to post there and send complaints to anet.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
well you didn’t address my points, but whatever. I don’t think having a 50th thief makes you objective…
u have no thief? Now u’re objective? Show me a video of what u’re talking about. I fought those “perma stealth” thieves, they couldn’t best me. Much stealth, some condition dmg, but no survivability. Maybe it’s because I apply nice dmg + much bleading + confusion + vulnerability + might stacks + daze + immobilize (with full rampager)… took me weeks to find this build and I’m loving it. Maybe it’s more like Rock, Paper, Scissors: some builds just best others.
U can’t be effective against everything and have to know what fights u should avoid…
@naleb: I am raising my own ele now. I’ll see if what u say is true. It just doesn’t fit my experience with them. I find fighting ele actually more annoying then thieves, not meaning that they are too strong. They have but a insane survivability. Yet, as a mesmer, to chase smth is a pain in the kitten
I am not complaining about any other class, so yes, I am more objective. Secondly, is your answer to just not fight thieves. Ok, I have my answer.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
well you didn’t address my points, but whatever. I don’t think having a 50th thief makes you objective…
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Other games have stealth break on damage and break upon attacking. I don’t understand why this game made stealth even more powerful than it is in other games. Even in other games stealth causes mass complaints although it’s less powerful.
Stealth lasts 4 sec (speced) unless its shadows refuge. No other game limits stealth to this short of a duration. Hence the reason it does not break on damage.
If it broke on damage it would be useless and we would be low hp/ low armor warriors with no group support.I don’t buy it. I have a top of the line system and I rarely see a thief at all when he attacks me.
I don’t care how “top of the line” your system is, you can’t solve server side issues >.<
That proves my point. Because of culling, stealth lasts much longer than 4 seconds and can be permanent. Tab targeting doesn’t work either, so don’t tell me to try that. I agree with the guy who said to fix culling first then adjust. The problem is that I have low confidence that it can be fixed, and I am tired of waiting for balance in WvWvW. Thieves essentially make WvWvW unplayable for me right now. How long should we wait?
You still don’t get it, and either don’t have the slightest clue about how anything works, are so desperately attached to your extremely inaccurate preconceptions, or (most likely) both.
There is not an issue with stealth. There is an issue with how stealth interacts with culling. Culling is being fixed, so until culling is fixed, no rational adjustments can be made to thief. Essentially, you’re demanding that since drunk drivers kill people in car accidents, we need to ban cars. If the drunks didn’t have cars, they couldn’t kill people in car accidents, so we’d fix the problem!
First – why is it that many thieves have admitted that they can spec for perma stealth?
Secondly, I do get it. What you don’t seem to understand is that above all other classes, thieves far and away benefit the most from culling, because they can us it to create perma stealth.
Third, why can’t adjustments be made ONLY in wvw until culling is fixed? I’ve seen no proof that culling can be fixed. I’ve seen no promise that it will be fixed, and I’ve seen no date by when it shall be fixed. How long is reasonable to allow thieves to disproportionately benefit from culling? All other classes eventually become visible. Thieves often can and do remain invisible during entire fights.
You are desparate to preserve god mode for you thief. That I DO understand.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I wish they’d charge $100 per transfer. Sick of the server hopping.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Don’t solo. I have a warrior, and warriors don’t need more sills.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.
Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.
If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,
You do realize that this thread is about thieves in PVE, right? The only things that are irrelevant here are both of your replies complaining about thieves in WvW when the topic is about poor thief DPS in dungeons.
To the extent that thieves get buffed I pve and those buffs spill over into WvWvW, my comments are completely relevant.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.
Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.
If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Yes, but you play a thief. Of course you don’t have problems.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
What class are you playing btw? I am in close contact with dueling juggernauts of every class that might could provide some vs thief tips.
I play a ranger. Largely specced for survivability.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Keep the stealth as is but lose the burst. Oh you want to keep the burst, then nerf stealth. Choose. Having amazing burst combined with stealth that doesnt break on damage or have cooldowns is OP and for non thieves is an extremely negative play experience.
Not sure this is right, but with culling, thieves can max out dps and still get permastealth. They dont have to choose. That’s the issue. How long should we wait for a fix?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
Other games have stealth break on damage and break upon attacking. I don’t understand why this game made stealth even more powerful than it is in other games. Even in other games stealth causes mass complaints although it’s less powerful.
Stealth lasts 4 sec (speced) unless its shadows refuge. No other game limits stealth to this short of a duration. Hence the reason it does not break on damage.
If it broke on damage it would be useless and we would be low hp/ low armor warriors with no group support.I don’t buy it. I have a top of the line system and I rarely see a thief at all when he attacks me.
I don’t care how “top of the line” your system is, you can’t solve server side issues >.<
That proves my point. Because of culling, stealth lasts much longer than 4 seconds and can be permanent. Tab targeting doesn’t work either, so don’t tell me to try that. I agree with the guy who said to fix culling first then adjust. The problem is that I have low confidence that it can be fixed, and I am tired of waiting for balance in WvWvW. Thieves essentially make WvWvW unplayable for me right now. How long should we wait?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
After reading many, but far from all of the above, I am dismayed to discover that the PvP’ers are wanting to nerf the Thief from PvE play, if not from PvP play as well.
They already nerfed the Thief’s only underwater Elite, as well as most of the underwater skills (all of the venoms) out of usefulness.
I can understand the need to make PvP balanced, but they’ve nerfed so much, only the guardian and warrior are easy to play in PvE.
And… Instead of your character creation selections affecting which skills you get based on say for Human’s based on the god that blessed you, or the Norn based on the spirit you had a vision of, the PvP’ers got them to give us access to all of them, and that’s changed PvE forever. (Removed a good part of the rpg element from the game.)
And what about the profession mechanic? The Thief has Steal. (Should be called Suicide, ‘cause you’re gonna die if you use it in the middle of a mob.) Only the Ranger’s profession mechanic, the pet is as bad. (It lasts just long enough to aggro a mob to swarm you to death, and you can’t get rid of the stupid thing! At least, during the BWE’s you could let it die, and then get on with your life.)
I really don’t care what they do with thieves outside WvWvW. Buff them up. The culling bug in WvWvW is making them imbalanced, and that needs to stop. If they can’t fix culling in the next few weeks, they should tweak thieves in WvWvW only. Clearly that’s feasible since its been done and because they are planning WvWvW only skills.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
The issue is that thieves already have the best capabilities in multiple areas. Scorpion wi alone isn’t that big a deal. However, when you add perma stealth, highest burst dps and best mobility, they all add up to horrific balance.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.