Guild Wars 2

Haha, nice one! xD

Guys, can we keep it to 3 specific buffs only – so any skills or traits that work as currently intended, but are simply not good enough in the current state of the game and could do with being buffed.

By all means, mention more things if you like, but please highlight the three main buffs in your opinion – things that could conceivably be implemented in a future patch. For this reason please be as specific as possible – ie, skill “X” needs to be buffed in damage, and so on.

There’s the other thread for bug fixes and things that don’t work as intended (for example ileap and iwarden).

:)

My condolences, peace be with you and your family.

Be it for focus or distraction, I hope that enjoying gw2 helps to bring joyful and loving memories of your sister into your heart, and that sadness gradually fades away.

skcamow.3527:

Curunen.8729:

Cry of Frustration is a kitten good suggestion – definitely the most “useless” shatter, mainly just supplementary damage to mind wrack, or simply to proc the shatter traits.
Maybe adding torment in addition to confusion for Cry of Frustration? Would certainly fit the theme of it.

Just a note – in power shatter builds cry of frustration is invaluable as one of the key boon stripping sources, with most players saving mind wrack, diversion and distortion for their actual uses.

That’s what I said – main use is to proc the trait.

Otherwise its damage is purely supplementary.

Edit: Ideally it is the condition themed shatter. So MW is pure damage, CoF is mainly condition, #3 is utility and #4 survival. At the moment CoF fails miserably in that department.

Edit 2: Just to clarify – CoF untraited (no boon strip, no condi removal, no torment, etc…) is absolutely mediocre.

Cry of Frustration is a kitten good suggestion – definitely the most “useless” shatter, mainly just supplementary damage to mind wrack, or simply to proc the shatter traits.
Maybe adding torment in addition to confusion for Cry of Frustration? Would certainly fit the theme of it.

Absconditus.6804:

Dracatis.1908:

Maybe it’s just me, but I just don’t see thematically a Mesmer using a pistol. I mean if your just going to shoot something in the face… why mesmerize them? Off-hand I see it as a last resort for sucking at Mesmer’ing.

What if I told you.. there was no weapons. That gun you see in my Mesmer’s hands. It’s not there. It’s me playing a trick on your mind. You think I have a gun, but it’s in fact just an illusion. That snake curling up near your feet.. that is real though. Us Mesmer’s can’t afford bullets anyways. Nobody takes us to dungeons anymore.

I basically roleplay this anyway – the only way I can make sense of weapon swap magically pulling out another weapon set from thin air.

Or for example mind stab thrusting a GS into the ground and pulling it out in around 1 second. Has to be an illusion!

Kitten no way, to GS #1 being a projectile… That would really annoy me.

GS is fairly well rounded compared to all our weapons at the moment, with the exception of Mind Stab – which to be honest if they do a damage and radius buff would be reasonably acceptable as well.

As for pistol – maybe expect that in, I dunno, 5 years or so?

Ok, we’ve gone through the multitude of bug fixes that are needed, but what about straight buffs? Yes I know – to read the words “mesmer” and “buff” in the same sentence… don’t worry the world hasn’t ended yet!

But let’s be honest, there are skills and traits that would really benefit from a buff, in one way or another. One of the problems that sometimes happens with Anet’s balancing of mesmer is the heavy handed “err on the side of overnerfing” approach, compared to the cautious shaving approach. This is fine, except things are not rebuffed to find the balance point. I’m not going to go back through patch notes just to write a pointless wall of text to highlight this – I’m sure people can go and read stuff for themselves.

Anyway for me, the top 3 things I’d like to see buffed are:

1. Blurred Frenzy
- So much talk about this, and of course everyone is going to have a different opinion on what side of it they want buffed based on the game mode they play. I’ll list what can be looked at – cooldown, damage, retal issues (for players in wvw raids). Please say if I’ve missed out anything. I’ll just pick one of these things and simply ask for base cooldown of 10s again. The increase to 12s base was unnecessary.

2. Blinding Befuddlement
- Ok so the confusion duration was increased, but the ICD? Really… I’d be happy for the confusion duration to be decreased to 3s (or less if necessary) and remove the ICD completely. If chaos armour is a worry then that can be dealt with separately.

3. iMage
- I know this has been listed in the bug fix thread, but to be honest it just needs an out and out straight buff – either in damage, conditions, aoe or something.

There’s much more of course, but just picking 3 that would do some good for this class. Please respond with your own. Laugh, cry, joke about it, call me crazy, whatever.

LOL

I guess all the tooltips are ok then?

Barrasci.2368:

My human engi, after analyzed the gravity of the situation, tried to cheer her up.

Haha, brilliant!

Some things could do with being buffed.

For example blurred frenzy didn’t need both cooldown increase and change from invuln to evade. They could have removed the invuln and left the base cooldown at 10s.

Blinding befuddlement really didn’t need the ICD added when wvw confusion was already nerfed – again they went a step too far.

Into the Void with the ICD, again a step too far – it already has a small cast time so a 0.5s ICD would have been enough, instead of the 1s.

Those are just off the top of my head – I’m sure other people here can chime in with other things. It’s a case of always going one step too far – fine, certain things did need toning down in the past, but Anet seem to err on the side of overnerfing when it comes to mesmers – and then never rebuffing things to find the balance point. This is the problem. Compare that to say warriors, where they always err on the side of caution when it comes to balancing skills.

Anyway, down to that build of your guildie – sounds like a restorative mantra support build – don’t see many of those around nowadays. I will confess I’ve never liked full mantra builds – the mechanics were just too awkward, and you’re pretty much dead if you get caught on your own with a few discharged.

trooper.2650:

Curunen.8729:

An example of why I like Condi removal – can pop off those nasty immobilises instantly, often preventing you from eating a face full of damage (eg if caught in a ranger’s entangle), or pop off poison on demand if you want to heal.

… or you are about to fall to death in Skyhammer under a chain of fear from a Necro holding the point

That too.

An example of why I like Condi removal – can pop off those nasty immobilises instantly, often preventing you from eating a face full of damage (eg if caught in a ranger’s entangle), or pop off poison on demand if you want to heal.

NinjaEd.3946:

Curunen.8729:

NinjaEd.3946:

Prysin.8542:

The moment watchwork portal device works in all modes, the mesmer class itself will be obsolete, i know this even though i never played mesmer beyond level 23

It’s sad when people like you think all Mesmer is capable of is porting. What’s even more sad is that there are a lot of people like you spreading these sob stories. Mesmer is not drowning in misery, it’s just the overreactions to the little stuff like the ileap update as if that was the issue with ileap.

Ask for bug fixes and trait merges, quit whining because you can’t spot the retaliation boon and mysteriously down yourself or that null field isn’t good enough. Its amusing to look at for only so long when Mesmer’s believe they aren’t viable in any part of the game.

Please explain all the viable build diversity available to us in the different game modes (stuff that actually works and is not either hard countered by something in pvp/wvw or totally replaceable by something in pve), because obviously I can’t see it.

You act like viable means its best in slot or something. It means it works, and does its job. I don’t fret about guardians being able to face tank pve content and still deal great damage compared to my thief but I don’t shelf my thief from fractals or any pve content. Same way I can make a venomshare build for wvw be viable however it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m having a blast and doing a better job than the rest (although mine does a good job for the most part).

You need to stop looking at other people’s unbalanced builds and look at what you can make viable.

-There are builds that can hold point for days in pvp even in outnumbered situations, there are builds that can roam between points and blow others up in pvp.

-there are builds in wvw either power or condi (usually condi) that melt people, and there are builds in wvw that can safely stand with the front line and dish out great support and moderate damage.

-As for pve, Time warp is hella nice sword ain’t half bad for stacking especially if its dredge, mass invis to skip parts, temp curtain to fix a stack, you have feedback on a utility and on raise which is great for numerous boss fights, you can trait for temp curtain to also reflect, etc. There is a lot of utility to Mesmer in pve content, a lot of it being very strong. Sure you can’t spawn a fgs and melt a boss in less than 10 seconds but you do have time warp which is pretty nice in comparison.

Oh I have always made and discovered my own builds, even if they turn out similar to other builds – never blindly copying other peoples.

Anyway, yes you’re right – it’s not about being best in slot, just being good enough not to feel either a burden or ineffective in any particular situation.

I’ve played shatter in pug dungeons for example – while nowhere near the most effective way to play, you can say it still functions. Because pve enemies are not other players, you can argue anything functions – just some more effective than others.

Mainly it’s bugs that prevent a lot of things from working correctly – focus for example. And that does cover a lot of problems – the reason why different weapons, skills and trait setups are not commonly used.

But I must say – in any large fight in wvw options are extremely limited and nowhere near as effective as they should be. When you say great front line support and moderate damage – can you give a build example? I am not aware of anything half decent in this department, since glamour confusion got demolished. I’m assuming run mimic, null field, feedback, staff or something (and have very little in the way of personal survival).

Surprised me as well – it was in the temple cap point, to the wooden platform.

The number of times blink either moves you nowhere or faceplants you straight into a wall, even if you’re in the right position to reach the higher terrain…

Veruah.5302:

Just curious, but why don’t you have a condi removal skill? I always thought Disenchanter/Null Field/Mantra had a place in shatter builds.

Portal vs Condi removal – the difference between team support and cap rotations, or selfish in combat potential. Depends whether people play with synergised teams, for someone else to help with Condi removal, or disorganised pugs in hotjoin – where you’re better off going for self preservation.

I prefer the latter. :p

Mind you, all the Condi removals have aoe, so not really selfish, and slightly different role (rewards using melee and staying in a fight with allies, instead of mobility and focus on decapping) – albeit not the most efficient role, or it would be more widespread in team play.

Is it that only the so called “top priority” class is allowed to be buffed/fixed?

Oh and I’m not sure about that stat of least represented profession – I thought necros or engis had the fewest number of players – unless you’ve got a recent poll that shows otherwise, in which case I’ll take back my statement.

Edit: Ninjad! xD Ok it seems it’s even moreso not the case of rangers being least represented.

+1

Unless in the next patch you’ve come up with replacement skill, or fixed the clone leap to always reach its target, please at the very least revert that ridiculous “bug fix” in the previous patch.

The thing is, the question in the title “why are mesmers moaning?” has been answered. Reasons have been given.

Then it’s like, “well… you can’t <insert Nathan Fillion caption here>”

A funny thing – blink did lead to me dying yesterday on temple – had a fairly long fight with an ele with both of us constantly escaping with tiny amounts of hp, and I was using blink to rotate up to the raised platform several times, to engage from range while cooldowns refreshed, before diving back into melee.

I think it was the fourth time – blink simply failed to port me up to the platform – instead straight into the wall (no, not in in the wall like the terrain glitch, just right up to the wall, where there’s nothing to LoS in easy reach…) :/ Of course this caused death directly. Pretty kitten annoying as th fight could have gone either way.

Anyway, regarding skill lag – I don’t know what part of the world you’re, in, but hot weather badly affected internet here for a week – I was experiencing skill delay of 2 to 4 seconds (unplayable, so I didn’t bother). Maybe this could be a reason?

Brega.6920:

I want to be sure I understand this thread.

this is what I’m taking away from it:

My profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession, nuh uh my profession is worse then your profession.

Did I get that right.

Actually no – there are a fair number of different posts in support of bug fixes and buffs for both, and some good posts on what needs to be achieved and what the weaknesses are.

Some people like to play the victim – mostly rangers from what I can see – and can’t see other classes can be deserving of buffs and bug fixes.

I am fully in support of fixes and buffs for both.

Mesmers are in a bad position when it comes to kittened up skills/traits and build variety – heaven forbid any mesmer dares to ask for buffs/fixes to bring back some variety in builds and weapon use – it seems some people don’t like this to be discussed. It’s not as if a warrior asking for healing signet to do 5k hp/s or something crazy…

vincecontix.1264:

Carighan.6758:

vincecontix.1264:

The mesmer prof is no where near as bad as many make it out to be. Though the most recent sword fix is pretty annoying.

Ofc. But then, neither are Rangers, Necros, Warriors, etc etc as far from where they need to be as people on this forum would have you think. :P

Let me rephrase that, mesmers a perfectly viable prof atm across most areas of the game.

How many different builds, trait choices, weapon selection – stuff that actually works and is not either hard countered by something in pvp/wvw or always better to replace by something else in pve? Or I suppose you could say every class is perfectly useable across most areas of the game, even necros in pve and rangers in large scale wvw, just some better than others.

I count shatter (fixed weapon set, just over that line of “viability”) in pvp, and PU (power/condi/hybrid) in wvw roaming.

For example, glamour confusion really needs to be restored as a build – given confusion is nerfed anyway and most people run -condi duration food in wvw anyway. Restoring this build would be a good thing for diversity and give people who want that aoe ability on a mesmer that opportunity.

That’s just one example – another could be making sword/focus useable again – at the moment it is totally not worth using compared to other choices.

Esplen.3940:

Blurred Frenzy counters Blurred Frenzy. God, I love Mesmer duels in WvW.

Nothing like seeing all those Evades at the same time. xD

Someday.3650:

All I can see in this post is a mesmer group mad because they’re losing their xp nodes with the next ranger patch. And most of you agree that thiefs > mesmers.
Well, guess what, rangers CAN’T do a thing against thiefs either. The only way we can outplay a thief is if he is the worst thief ever. But, guess again what, we’re outplayed by MESMERS and every other class in the game.

Facts:
1) You have a viable build, more or less, but still you can do good. If you can’t win, you ALWAYS can kite even outnumbered and survive if you play your cards right. Rangers can’t. We have on LB 1 skill for stealth (worthless), on SB skill 3 (a joke for disengage), torch-axe-horn (escape? I don’t think so). We have 2 skills to disengange, 3 on GS which doesn’t work if your enemy is following just you (he’ll get you, sooner or later) and “no target, 2, spin, 2” manouver on sword wich means you have to use sword and you have to be good doing that. And even so, usually you need to do one more spin and play a right LR with another spin more. Yeah, that easy to scape =)

2) Rangers have 0 builds beside sPvP spirit wich is not what most people think of or want from a ranger (a DPS class acting as a low cond dealer and tank home holder… what?)

3) Rangers are a DPS “all in” class. We can’t disengage, we need to kill the enemy or die. Hey if you ask me, I would prefer survivability but at least ArNt is now giving us some of dps to at least have a chance.

Lets be clear. If you want to ask for stuff, ask for ArNt to fix the bugs and to balance thieves. The word ranger shouldn’t be on those topics.

What on Earth? Most comments from mesmers I can see are supportive about ranger buffs. At least I certainly am.

I found GS+Sw/D and a certain trait setup (can’t remember now – I deleted my ranger because I’m not keen on having alts) to be very good vs thieves (and mesmers) as well as escaping. I found it incredibly easy to engage and disengage with that weapon set and build. Biggest weakness I found was mediocre burst damage, even with decent use of a pet. Granted the lack of range (lol) damage with that build makes it a bit of a gimmick! Still found it good and fun though.

Anyway that’s beside the point – the point is can we stop bickering at each other. Can ranger mains accept that mesmers do need fixes and buffs and stop playing the victims, as if because you think ranger is the worst means nobody else has the right to ask for buffs and bug fixes? Can some mesmers be patient for the Skill Bar notes before criticising ranger buffs?

Feaduin.7603:

Can some RP guild please make a theatrical adaptation of this thread a la West Side Story? A wealthy Mesmer from Divinity’s Reach meets a Ranger from Bloodtide Coast…

Haha!

But seriously, I don’t see the need for any arguments in this thread.

Rangers need buffs in different departments – they should be getting something good, even if things need to be changed in the future.

Mesmers need bug fixes and yes some buffs (ie glamour confusion at least made playable for wvw) in different departments – whether the next patch actually brings in some of these remains to be seen…

NinjaEd.3946:

Prysin.8542:

The moment watchwork portal device works in all modes, the mesmer class itself will be obsolete, i know this even though i never played mesmer beyond level 23

It’s sad when people like you think all Mesmer is capable of is porting. What’s even more sad is that there are a lot of people like you spreading these sob stories. Mesmer is not drowning in misery, it’s just the overreactions to the little stuff like the ileap update as if that was the issue with ileap.

Ask for bug fixes and trait merges, quit whining because you can’t spot the retaliation boon and mysteriously down yourself or that null field isn’t good enough. Its amusing to look at for only so long when Mesmer’s believe they aren’t viable in any part of the game.

Please explain all the viable build diversity available to us in the different game modes (stuff that actually works and is not either hard countered by something in pvp/wvw or totally replaceable by something in pve), because obviously I can’t see it.

Veruah.5302:

Good point on using BF more defensively. I often struggle with the strategy of “Do I just go full burst and burn it down, or save it as a 3rd evade?”

Trickery? Mind games? Confusion? On a mesmer?? You’re silly.

Yeah, sometimes it’s better to include in in the burst if you’re sure to down them soon after.

Oh I forgot – mind games are OP.

Several different viewpoints you can take for dealing with a thief:

1 – Burst their hp down asap => shatter.

2 – Go down the phantasm route and concentrate on defending => likely PU power or pure phantasm build.

3 – Go down the clone death route and concentrate on defending => likely PU condition build.

Of course there may be other methods, but I’d say those are the most effective. 2 and 3 can be very boring, but 1 can be very unforgiving. 1 can put them on the back foot, but requires good timing at landing the burst – equally you can be demolished in the same manner, so depends who connects with their attacks and who misses. 2 and 3 are fairly foolproof, but 2 can be very much restricted to 1v1 and for 3 they can run away without you being able to kill them. Depends how you like to play.

Edit: Of course this also assumes you are able to beat the thief in the first place! Some of them will wreck you, no matter what.

Veruah.5302:

I assume you mean Blurred Frenzy? I’ve never actually experienced that bug with it.

Of course essentially needing to land iLeap as a prerequisite for Blurred Frenzy is an entirely different discussion all together.

Not really – can just positional or dodge shatter using ileap clone and other illusions and save BF for the counter burst – especially useful vs thieves. Sometimes better to save BF for defensive burst rather than waste that 2s evade while MWing.

Of course, swap being almost useless unless used immediately severely neuters any kind of trickery/mind games you can do with sword anymore.

I hotjoin exclusively with GS+Sw/T shatter.

Say what you like about hotjoin, but you will still get good matches on the odd occasion and good fights – and will also see a wide variety of builds. Also the weaker team coordination makes it a lot more fun to play for me – because you don’t have to have a pole up your kitten about perfect tight cap rotations and can take a lot of liberties with teasing the opposition around the map (more like small scale wvw).

Only time I really get wrecked is if:
- I’ve just started playing and not warmed up – in which case I change lobby a couple of times until I get my rhythm going.
- The other team is a guild group or very skilled players and yours is pug or low skill players (or players testing out weird builds) – when you get 2v1 with excellent players, you can’t win, simple as that.

Yes sword bugs and blink bugs kitten me off fairly regularly – but most of the time I’m still able to work around them and be very successful. Since changing my build from 2/6 to 4/4 with the boon strip (and dropping 1200 blink for blade training) I’ve found life a lot easier.

Edit: I’m not quite sure what problem the OP is having though – the only skills that throw me off when they don’t work are Blink and iLeap. The rest are all fairly reliable, even blurred frenzy – though I do acknowledge that sometimes (very rarely) I have to press the button a second time for it to activate.

NinjaEd.3946:

@OP, No idea why they are moaning. They want the best of both worlds and even after all their “class breaking nerfs” they can still be played well. The majority of their complaints come from bugs relating to their core skills which I can understand, but when they ask for full out buffs on skills that don’t need them its questionable and often laughable.

Even more so, when you list their strengths almost always someone replies with, “Yeah and that’s all we got” and then go on about how they need more. ><

It’s quite simple.

Wider variety of useful builds reduced to very small variety in useful builds due to inane nerfs, breaking of skills and “bug fixes”. Even these so called useful builds have very limited use in the different game modes.

From my point of view all I want to see is more useful build variety – both in weapons, utilities and traits. What is wrong with asking for this?

^Haha, brilliant!

selan.8354:

why are we even fighting guys. yes mesmers have reached the bottom of the bottom and are barely fun to play and rangers are right down there with us. rangers need buffs too and i get that.
we both have the right to complain, cause we lack in many aspects of the game. yes ranger can pick on a single target and so can mes, but thats not the issue. the issue is that both classes cant contribute well ingroup play.

i used to love my mes in wvw, now i havent played it in over 2 months cause yeah well i like wvw zergbusting, so i went ahead and made a necro. and yes i did try ranger and i see very similar issues there. too many traits are wasted on a pet that dies in less than 10 seconds in a zergfight, mes cant use illusions nor can they shatter.
people that say mes doesnt need help, see the mes in 1v1 and roaming. yes thats about the only thing we can do. 1v1 and thats it. in a group we lack dmg, aoe dmg and even in support we are lacking and we also dont really fit into the role of the backline ganker as thats the thieves job and they do it well!
same with the ranger no role in group play, they can take down a single target, but what about a large scale fight? war outshines their bow skills by far, they dont have much group support, nor enough aoe to really be useful. so yeah i agree ranger needs help… a lot of it! but arguing here about mes needing buffs makes like no sense at all. we both are in the same boat and both need massive rework!
so can we stop the fights over who deserves buffs and who doesnt?

Agreed.

From what I have played as ranger, I found them very strong in 1v1 – especially against… thieves and mesmers.

And I agree their main weakness is in larger scale fights where the pet dies and they have no decent aoe for these large fights.

But you can’t pretend ranger is bad in small scale pvp, apart from pet AI being kitten.

As has been said regarding the ToL teams – every mesmer, exact same build (incredibly minor differences) – hugely influenced to be taken because of previous ToL final and winning team.
And again what does it boil down to? Bringing portal (or gtfo) and boon strip shatters. GS+Staff because they’re the only weapons that aren’t properly kittened at the moment.
And as said, if the previous ToL finals had different team compositions (ie no mesmers) then I’d guarantee seeing barely any mesmers this time either.

Edit: For the record, I’m happy ranger is getting some nice buffs. Not sure if they’re the correct buffs, but still better than no buffs.

It’s flavour of the season at the moment – gs+staff that is.

(Unless you want to run condi PU with scepter/torch + staff)

Lord Jim.3971:

Interrupting a downed state skill procs all your interrupt traits but doesn’t actually stop the skill. This is most notable on the NPC Necromancer where a 3 clone daze shatter will proc 3 interrupts in a row on both the lifesteal and fear skills.

Good to know – so at best it is giving the illusion of interrupting a downed skill, when in reality it is hesitation of the downed player that makes it look like an interrupt – and this also explains the perceived inconsistency (in that there is no inconsistency – only whether the downed player decides to use a skill while the interrupt floater shows, or hesitates and fails to do so).

ASP.8093:

Curunen.8729:

There’s no reason for the boon refresh to be every second.

Either change to 2s intervals, or grant boons only on entering stealth for say 4s base.

It’s a random boon each time. On an average cast, you’re gaining 4s each (3s base + boon duration improvements), plus another 4s of one of them.

Sometimes you luck out and it looks kinda like this:
1. Regen procs, you start regenerating hp you’ve lost previously. You get Protection from Illusionary Membrane (4s).
2. Protection procs naturally (7s prot).
3. Aegis procs, lasting long enough to cover against the first burst you take once you come out of stealth.
4. Protection procs (so your total duration left is 7s).

Sometimes it doesn’t look like that at all and you have a stack of protection that expires the second you leave stealth.

Overall I think the prot and regen uptime is comparable — a bit superior, but still comparable to — to Elemental Attunement

I just think it was fine before they decided to buff it again to the current state.

nearlight.3064:

The sword/focus set on memser, once their bread and butter damage and utility weaponset is now a shadow of its former self and is the most nerfed weaponset in the game.

So true.

Every single skill on Sword/Focus has taken a hit – from reduced damage on the third auto chain, blurred frenzy overly nerfed, iLeap stupidly “fixed”, Temporal Curtain screwed up in too many ways (swiftness, reflect, into the void ICD…), and of course iWarden broken beyond belief.

While I agree early on this set was, well, overpowered for want of a better word – now it has seen far too many nerfs and as such is hardly used at all in pvp anymore.

Yeah, this interrupt floater showing up makes all the confusion and difficult to test for anything.

There’s no reason for the boon refresh to be every second.

Either change to 2s intervals, or grant boons only on entering stealth for say 4s base.

From what I have played as ranger, GS leap and block, sword double leap, dagger or shortbow evade, LR, permanent movement speed buffs and so on – for me I found it much easier to engage and disengage from combat compared to mesmer, with the only disadvantage being lack of on demand stealth.

In any case I will never put rangers and mesmers in the same boat – each has its own problems that desperately need fixing.

Regarding mesmers – one thing I’d like to clear up is that while I agree in the beginning the class started out all powerful, the repeated nerfs have not simply brought it down to “normal” levels – instead many things have been actively broken and most importantly build diversity has been severely reduced – such that outside of one or two seemingly powerful builds, everything else is well below par.

Next time I get a chance to play I’ll try and test with both normal ground targeting and instant ground targeting, in case that makes the difference.

Regarding from the clone – perhaps I’m just remembering incorrectly.

On the subject of blink stomping, both thieves, mesmers and eles – while it has always worked on thieves and eles, I’m sure they changed something early this year or late last year for blink stomping mesmers.

It was possible to either
- initiate stomp on Mesmer -> blink to Mesmer after reappearing from Deception (requires bad/panicky Mesmer)
- initiate stomp on clone -> blink to Mesmer on reappearing.

But in say the last 6 months or so, neither of those work any more. Is there some hidden change Anet did to affect this? It’s making me doubt my own sanity, but I swear both these methods worked in the past.

EDIT: Ah, is it to do with when they introduced fast cast ground targeting with range indicator? I used to use instant ground targeting before that, but ever since using fast cast with range indicator, blink stomping mesmers has failed to work. Is anyone who still uses instant ground targeting still able to do this? If so I may switch back to it.

30 people occupying 1 square metre in floor space does not equate to real life.

As someone said, the solution would be to turn on player model collision – but sadly I can see this leading to a lot of griefing.

Neptune.2570:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmers are moaning because they want all their other build brought up to PU level of faceroll. Its also why u see mostly phantasm mesmers in yolo queue, because they want AI to do all the work for them.

Actually most Mesmers want PU nerfed and other builds buffed a bit so there not pidgeon holed into only being able to roam in wvw, with PU, because there not viable for anything else.
Also in PvP if your seeing anything that isn’t shatter than you’re playing at some low level play.

Absolutely – I want to see PU (the trait) nerfed/reverted, and other skills buffed to give some build variety.

There is the illusion that Mesmer is overpowered, thanks to PU and a few utilities.

Shatter for example is not overpowered. Ask anyone who plays it. Any time you see someone winning a fight in shatter, their opponent(s) is/are several degrees less skilled.
By the way, I’d like anyone here to play sword/focus plus scepter/x shatter and come back and tell me that it is in a “normal” condition.

Bryzy.2719:

Earlier a mesmer had the nerve to comment on the Ranger forums claiming that they are lagging further behind every other profession, even more so than Rangers.

I’ve encountered thousands of mesmers in WvW (and a fair few in pvp) and every one I see has an kitten nal of debuffs, stealth, clones and mobility (in-combat teleports) at their fingertips. They absolutely dominate 1v1 scenarios, with their opponent being forced into a passive stance. Because of their kitten nal of utilities and skills, they can also dominate 1vX if they are at least of average skill. Deciding which is a clone and which is a player is hard enough even without all the other stealth, CC and debuffs being thrown at you.

Rangers, by the looks of things, will be receiving some very nice buffs in the next balance patch – and it’s been a VERY long time coming. However, what I’m now seeing is that other professions – particularly mesmers – are highly expectant that Anet will provide them with the same. However this would be completely contradictory to the fact that Rangers have to be brought up to par with every other profession so that we’re on a level playing field. Buffing other professions to the same extent that they’ll buff Rangers will leave us more powerful – yes – but in exactly the same situation in terms of balance.

Deciding which is the player and which is the clone is trivial and a complete non issue most of the time. No half decent player is fooled by illusions.

While mesmer started off in the beginning of the game as arguably the strongest class, consistent nerfs, patch after patch, have brought it down to a very poor state, pretty much unwanted in every game mode because another class will do the job better.

All three skills on MH sword have been kittened.
Focus, which was probably the best weapon in the beginning has been kittened and is arguably now our worst weapon.
Scepter has been kittened for direct damage, with no ranged substitute. Now only good in the infamous condi builds.
Glamour confusion got kittened, despite confusion already being nerfed and now everyone running with -condi duration food, so it would be underpowered anyway.

I could go on, but I don’t want to write a wall of text.

Yes mesmer is still playable – shatter is still impressive to watch and fun to play because the playstyle is so dynamic – but take note that good thieves will eat any shatter spec for breakfast, and it requires probably the highest skill floor of any class build to be effective.

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Rangers, the class getting big buffs , thieves which are used to an extent in all three game formats, and necros which are solid in wvw, have access to numerous solid PvP builds and capable of pulling off competitive dps in pve. Mesmer – the class which is completely phased out of PvP, absolute trash tier in open world an instancd pve (they are literally replaceable by a consumable) and in wvw you drop a veil and call it quits. So no. I’ve played Mesmer, I like Mesmer and wanted it to work, but it doesn’t. The OP is just a bad player who for dumped on by the worst class in the entire game and wants to just call them overpowered rather than try to improve.

First, the buffs are coming in 2 months most likely. Until then, Rangers are still pure trash in all 3 modes, so don’t even pull those into the equation. Second, you haven’t seen your class’s balance patch, and considering how good the Rangers are getting buffed (after being nerfed DESPITE being bottom tier since Day 1), don’t be surprised if Mesmers get some buffs as well. Third, Mesmers are wanted in all 3 modes currently unlike Ranger, so you can’t call yourself bottom of the barrel if your class is wanted in all 3 modes.

Something about “mesmer” and “buff” coexisting in the same sentence…

I won’t compare mesmers and rangers, because each one has different problems in different game modes. I like playing ranger and am glad they are getting some well deserved buffs, even if they aren’t exactly as expected.

But “mesmers are wanted in all 3 game modes…”? Barely, if at all, and only for one or two gimmicks – mainly veil and portal.

Great players make them work in pvp, but held up by a few very weak pillars – portal once again and boon strip shatters. There is one rigid build that just about works with the team – the GS/Staff shatter build. Everything else is sub par in one way or another – fun to play messing around solo, but no team is likely to want you.

I can’t speak from personal experience of pve because I don’t enjoy the mode, but you can take maha’s words as law.

Large scale wvw is veil and gtfo, to be blunt. Of course you can play other builds, but will be far far more effective on other classes.

While you can have success with a lot of builds in roaming – such kittenter or other random builds, these are all hard countered by something (mostly thieves), so while you can do well on these builds, you will run into some enemy that at the same skill level will destroy you, simply because of their class and build. PU builds are the only way to guarantee no hard counters in roaming – although I prefer shatter because it’s more active.

In any case I will be extremely surprised at any significant buff mesmer’s receive in the next patch – I’m expecting more unnecessary nerfs (iLeap…) or bug fixes that don’t work.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Curunen.8729:

Fay.2357:

Downed enemies have a type of stability. They can not be interrupted with anything other than launch skills.

Curunen.8729:

but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.

Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.

Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.

I wish there was an easy way to carry out some tests – while I know what you say is pretty much always right, I can’t shake the feeling that I couldn’ve sworn on many occasions that Diversion interrupted a mesmer downed port for instance, and most other things apart from ele #2. But similarly on many other occasions I seemed to time it perfectly only for it not to work, as you said.

I’m not sure if there could be a bug in there, that it is possible for it to work, but in the end all down to luck.

You can interrupt downed channel skills. That doesn’t necessarily mean a daze will put downed skills into cd.

Hmm. Ok I just tested with the warrior in HotM to try and interrupt the hammer, but you’re right it doesn’t work.

I think what must be happening is the Diversion interrupt of #1 or #4 (which comes up with the usual “Interrupt” message on screen) causing a split second delay in action for the downed player, where they hesitate before pressing #2 or #3 – which comes across as a percieved interrupt for #2, when that is in fact not true.

Edit: I would usually wait until the last possible moment of the stomp before hitting daze, to try and prevent the #2, but in reality the daze interrupts the #1 and depending on the downed player’s reflexes they either hesitate and fail to use #2 (for the thief or mesmer ports for example) – which makes it look like the daze has interrupted the port – or they successfully use #2 which makes it looks like the interrupt has failed.

Anyway, to sum up what I’ve learnt now – save Diversion to interrupt the res; no point wasting it on downed enemies themselves.

Fay.2357:

Downed enemies have a type of stability. They can not be interrupted with anything other than launch skills.

Curunen.8729:

but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.

Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.

Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.

I wish there was an easy way to carry out some tests – while I know what you say is pretty much always right, I can’t shake the feeling that I couldn’ve sworn on many occasions that Diversion interrupted a mesmer downed port for instance, and most other things apart from ele #2. But similarly on many other occasions I seemed to time it perfectly only for it not to work, as you said.

I’m not sure if there could be a bug in there, that it is possible for it to work, but in the end all down to luck.

Esplen.3940:

If PH was in Dom, that would be kind of ridiculous…

Inspiration, not Dom…

TyPin.9860:

Nah… they will next patch move Shattered Conditions into illusions trait line at master level and then shatter mesmer will be truly OP.

I want this to happen.

Actually I don’t think it would be OP, because it would require dropping either iInvigoration or iElasticity.

This would tone down the GS/Staff shatter if they choose to take shattered conditions and allow all other weapon sets to be on a similar level.

It would also free up the condi removal utility slot (ie Mantra of Resolve) and allow for flexibility in a utility slot (given that decoy and blink are almost mandatory) – for mirror images, portal, veil, mimic, AT or whatever you want.

Shatter needs this kind of condi removal to fully solidify the build. I don’t think moving this trat would affect tpvp much at all, given the shatter build of choice has more use of iElasticity – if anything it would give other weapon sets a good alternative (ie scepter/pistol or sword/focus) to be on par with the GS/Staff meta build.

It would also certainly give shatter much more viability in wvw roaming.

So yes, please do move Shattered Conditions to Illusions Master Major, and swap it with something like one of the glamour traits or phantasmal haste.

Iavra.8510:

Blinkstomping eles only works if they vapor form as soon as you start stomping, and even then only with 1200 range blink if they move in a straight line.

Since most players tend to use their downed skill at the last possible moment, i’d advise having a hammer guard, rifle engi, x/D ele or anything with a launch (not knockback) with you. Launching the downed enemy ~1s before the stomp ends will prevent him from doing anything and still be in range for the stomp.

Sadly mesmers don’t have any launches.

That’s why I said if you’re feeling incredibly lucky. Might as well buy a lottery ticket on the same day! ;D
I can probably count the number of successful vapour form stomps on one hand, and kind of requires a very bad ele or more players cluttering the screen to make them panic, although it is kitten satisfying.