Guild Wars 2

Warlord.9074:

Daecollo.9578:

If kill shot is “interrupted, evaded, blocked, missed.” your adrenaline is still full, it doesn’t go away, and Kill Shot is put on a VERY VERY short cool-down so you can almost immediately use it again if you want to.

It works the same way for every single burst skill warriors have. You don’t have 95% all the time. Screen shot or it never happened. Facts are Facts Opinions are not. Most of your so called facts are opinions.

Oh no, I was wrong, I can only get 93% (88%+5% Sigil.) Critical Chance if I don’t focus on it.
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5130/gw028i.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8830/26281564.jpg (Non-Blurry Image of Stats.)

I’m 10/20/15/0/20, I don’t have every point in precision, I could have 96% Critical Chance if I did.

Please don’t comment unless you actually play a warrior.

Oh… I just noticed I can get 9% More Critical Chance if I’m full Adrenaline… thats 102% Critical Chance…

digitalfodder.5086:

Daecollo.9578:

Going through the portal should daze you for 4 seconds and put on a 3 second revealed debuff.

Thats all, it needs no nerfs.

No that is quite clearly a nerf. It would be useless in PvE and as an escape mechanic. Limiting it to group/5 people is fine.

Your escaping a fight, why would you need to attack back? Dazing doesn’t hinder your movement one bit.

It wouldn’t nerf its use in getting places, you can still get to a place inside a keep and wait for 4 seconds. (for example, getting people to a place in PVE, it wouldn’t nerf you there, we always wait before we strike bosses or kill NPCs anyways.)

It wouldn’t nerf you for running away, you can still use it to get far away.

It would however, nerf portal bombing.

Going through the portal should daze you for 4 seconds and put on a 3 second revealed debuff.

Thats all, it needs no nerfs.

Fact: Warriors take no resources if they miss kill shot, only a short 3 second cool-down.

Myth: Kill Shot is hard to miss, you can use frenzy to fire it near instantly and you can also cancel it early if you see them dodge, and then just use kill shot again, if you cancel it the cool-down for it goes on 1 seconds, you can just use it and waste there dodges.

Myth: if your target runs away 1500 if you cast it it misses, in fact it travels further then 1500 meters, it travels up to 2150ish meters before it stops, you just need to be 1500 meters to cast it, it also travels very very fast.

However, if your target runs behind a wall, it will miss, and the Warrior will get an “Oh No!” 4 second cooldown and waste no resources.

To reply both above… “Lucky Enough to Critical?” my warrior has 95% critical chance at all times.

If kill shot is “interrupted, evaded, blocked, missed.” your adrenaline is still full, it doesn’t go away, and Kill Shot is put on a VERY VERY short cool-down so you can almost immediately use it again if you want to.

Kaizer.7135:

Lensar.4920:

As anyone who spends time in WvW knows, battles tend to be very mobile affairs. In medium to large battles, Kill Shot tends to be ineffective. A warrior must run up to within 1500 meters of the enemy.

1500 METERS ???!!!!!

And if they are clustered up together like they usually are, it pierces/hits all of em!

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

D/P

To be fair, this one has an excellent, if expensive, way to stealth, to the point where it is one of the main ways to non-combat permastealth.

And.. Non-Combat Permastealth is useless, it can’t cap points anymore, stealth foes are ignored.

Shrpnelz.4801:

Thieves have a serious problem of opness. Let’s take a closer look :

Damage per second : Thieves have a very high damage output from both regular damage AND condition damage which make heavy armor useless. they have ranged weapon as well, which can apply poison, vulnerability, bleeding, cripple, daze evasion.

Mobility in combat/Evasion : They have dodge rolls, Evasive skills with both ranged and melee weapon, somehow every thief i’ve fought so far we’re running faster than me. VERY Hard to land a skillshot on them, very hard to hit in melee before they drop you down.

Invisibility : Well it speaks for itself. Should be a 70% stealth and not complete invisibility or simply removed, if not at the expense of CC or condition damage or damage…

Put a comparison board of thief vs. any other class and everyone will be playing thief which is probably the case as we speak in Spvp ( I’d like to specify that I never enjoyed a good SPVP without 4-5 thief against me or with me Yayyyyyy!??!?! was spvp meant for thief only? )

As long as I can remember, the only thief class actually worth the fun to play with, against and in team with was the D&D ORIGINAL Thief ; a coward, hungry for gold, double crossing son of a dog.

GW2 thieves are in my opinion a very pitiful attempt to recreate the Assassin Creed feeling that sold millions and millions of copy, please note that AC wasn’t an online game.

Thieves have horrible damage per second, they have however very high burst…

Mobility in combat/Evasion, Thieves are 4th on this, Under Elementalist, Warrior, Engineer.

Invisibility: Thieves and Mesmer both have almost an equal amount of invisibility skills in utility, but Thieves have cloak and dagger as well, and traits that stealth us whenever they seem to feel like it, giving us a nice revealed de-buff that usually kills us.

Put a comparison board of thief vs. any other class:

For PvE, Thief is ranked Lowest Class, even under Ranger.
For PVP, Thieves are not ranked very high in SPVP where PVP actually is balanced, we are roamers and roamers are terrible in SPVP, we cannot compare to Guardians/Elementalists/Other Classes, we are one of the only classes who can’t bunker down.

99% of our complaints come from WvWvW pvp, which is not balanced.

This one wonders if you even play a thief, or just enjoy sprouting nonsense.

Every 45 seconds, the thief can deal more damage then any other class in the game.
However, after that, the thief does almost little to poor damage, mostly auto-attack damage.

If you can block that one big attack, then the thief is easy meat, which these days many people are learning to do.

Deleted my posts below, don’t need fighting. :P

Zoke.2147:

I don’t get the decision to give thieves so many combat invisis, and then to buff them, seriously get your heads out of your kitten when it comes to balance you really kittened the pooch on this one, GW1 was perfect with out invis, kittenin kitten idea lets hope after February you will have some how unkittened your selves and actually balanced your game. Cya then skill less thieves.

Some weapon sets do not have much for invisibility.
S/P
D/P
P/P
….

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

15% Critical Chance for Sword would be a very NICE trait, because it lets us drop things for other things…

Too nice, 15 % is huge. Other +crit chance traits range from 5 to 7 %. 10 % would be the upper end of reasonable for a crit chance trait boost.

……

Guardian

Main-hand
Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.

Warrior

Main-hand
Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%.

Warriors/Guardians have similar traits, and warriors have adrenaline criticals as well which adds up to 10%+9% Extra Critical Chance.

You can’t cross-compare profession traits like that without taking the whole profession into account. 15 % is way over the top for thieves in comparison to the other available traits.

Not really, I’ve played three classes already and the combinations are actually quite balanced.

You can’t speak to how well another 15 % crit bonus on thieves would work because it doesn’t exist. How well a given bonus works on one profession does not translate directly to how it’ll affect a different profession.

Critical Bonus would be overpowered.

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

15% Critical Chance for Sword would be a very NICE trait, because it lets us drop things for other things…

Too nice, 15 % is huge. Other +crit chance traits range from 5 to 7 %. 10 % would be the upper end of reasonable for a crit chance trait boost.

……

Guardian

Main-hand
Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.

Warrior

Main-hand
Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%.

Warriors/Guardians have similar traits, and warriors have adrenaline criticals as well which adds up to 10%+9% Extra Critical Chance.

You can’t cross-compare profession traits like that without taking the whole profession into account. 15 % is way over the top for thieves in comparison to the other available traits.

Not really, I’ve played three classes already and the combinations are actually quite balanced.

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

15% Critical Chance for Sword would be a very NICE trait, because it lets us drop things for other things…

Too nice, 15 % is huge. Other +crit chance traits range from 5 to 7 %. 10 % would be the upper end of reasonable for a crit chance trait boost.

……

Guardian

Main-hand
Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.

Warrior

Main-hand
Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%.

Warriors/Guardians have similar traits, and warriors have adrenaline criticals as well which adds up to 10%+9% Extra Critical Chance.

senate.8126:

Tulisin.6945:

Because in most situations melee weapons are a viable option.

lol.

They’re ranged weapons, nobody needs to act surprised that they do less damage then melee.

Thats not true, a bow show be doing more piercing damage then a sword should be doing.

15% Critical Chance for Sword would be a very NICE trait, because it lets us drop things for other things…

There is no way a short bow can out damage warrior’s rifle, warriors have a much higher critical chance then you do, warriors have high damage abilities and easy ways to refill those damaging abilities, you are even taking into account signet of rage, which you need -20% Signet duration for to get the most of for the fury buff for even more damage.

Kill Shot itself has a 10 second, 8 second if traited, recast, and with precision signet you can refill adrenaline instantly and fire again.

Not even that, rifle has a longer range built-into the weapon, 900 range vs 1200.

You need 30 in critical strikes to get most from rifle…

Remove useless traits, as we have too many of them.

Change 5% Chance to bounce to 100% Chance to Pierce. (Bouncing just gets you unwanted aggro anyways…)
Change Pistol Mastery to 5% Extra Damage/10% Extra Critical Chance.

Um.. I don’t see that as a mastery trait.. they must of removed it.

…. if it had a built in shadowstep.. what would be the point of infiltrator’s strike?

ensoriki.5789:

We had a trait called Martial Agility. Increased your speed with a sword.
They deleted it and put in Assassins Reward.

Would take Martial Agility instead of Fleet of shadows (srs).

Increases attack speed, or movement speed?

ASP.8093:

You say “add synergy.”

I say “arbitrarily force every crit-based build into one trait allocation.”

Noooo—-… >_>

Basilisk Venom shouldn’t be considered an elite skill, to be honest, they should turn Signet of Shadows into an elite skill, its much better then most other signets and it would give Thieves more access to traits like: +40 Precision per unused signet.

Trickery Tree:
+1% Critical Damage:
+Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 2%.

Precision Tree:
+10 Precision.
+10 Condition Damage.

Deadly Arts
Serpent’s Touch – Stealing applies poison for 5 seconds.
Mug – Deal damage when stealing. (does a lot less damage then before.)

Leave all other traits the same.

This adds Synergy between the traits and allows the thief much more access to many more builds.

30 points in trickery reduces the cool-down of steal by 60%, this allows many other traits to be viable.

sorrow.2364:

Dual skills are a wide concept.
Two traits aren’t a proof that all dual skills are meant to deal high damage. That’s not logic.
It’s like saying that because warriors have a trait which doubles the Physical utility skills damage, Physical skills are meant to deal damage, so all Physical skills should be reworked to deal high damage. This logic is heavily flawed.

Forceful Greatsword and Slashing Power make the Warrior’s Greatsword “Utility Skills” do significant damage, and all there other attacks as well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack Utility Skill – Gap Closer, Whirl Finisher.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bladetrail Utility Skill – Range Cripple.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush Utility Skill – Gap Closer.

With the two traits above, these skills now do significant damage, way more so then auto-attack does. (I play an 80 Warrior as well as an 80 Thief.)

Physical Skills are Utility skills are well, each of them stuns/cripples/knocks down, all of those in my mind are utility skills, the trait merely turns them into doing significant damage as well as bringing utility.

So by your own words! Flanking Strike, AS proof by your own post, does not deal enough damage.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual Skills are meant to be damage skills, if they were not, WHY is there traits dedicated to giving them more damage, that doesn’t make sense to a utility skill, and your counter-acting what you said before about the skill doing good damage, now its a utility skill?

Why do we have traits to increase the damage by a mere 5% and critical chance by a mere 5% to one attack if the damage is not significant?

Because those traits are not minor. You are not forced to pick those traits, you pick them only if they are worth using in your build. This doesn’t mean that a trait should be always useful to your specific build.

Then, tell me why they are there then, nobody is forced to pick any trait, but I am saying these are traits (master ones at that.) dedicated to make these skills stronger and do more damage, if the traits are not doing much damage, then why have traits designed to make them do more damage?!

Master (X) Combined Training Dual skills deal 5% more damage.
This is the final master trait of the power tree, the FINAL master trait, and it is DEDICATED to making Flanking Strike (a dual skill), a low damage utility skill, do 5% more damage.

Master (IX) Combo Critical Chance Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.
This is the second to final master trait of the precision tree, and it is DEDICATED to making Flanking Strike (a dual skill), a low damage utility skill, have 5% more chance to critical.

These are MASTERY traits, they should be in line to similar traits, I will use warrior as an example, since the developers themselves said they would be using warrior as an example for all classes since its the most balanced.

Master Slashing Power Greatsword and spear damage is increased by 10%.
(power tree.)

Master Forceful Greatsword Gain might on critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Greatsword and spear skill [sic] recharge 20% faster.
(precision tree.)

Obviously this is not balanced, dual skills are not balanced around being a utility skill, they are meant to be high damage skills.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual skills are not meant to be utility skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_wield_skill

Deadly Arts
Combined Training – Dual skills deal 5% more damage.

Critical Strikes
Combo Critical Chance – Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.

4/5 are the utility skills.

Theres no point to use these traits for flanking strike because it does such low damage, Dual Skills ARE damage skills, otherwise they would not have traits dedicated to making them do more damage!

Since this seems to be not the case for most of them besides Death Blossom, I think these traits need a big change.

Don’t generalize.
It was pretty obvious that Flanking Strike isn’t a damage skill.
Unload, on the other hand, is a damage skill. So is Pistol Whip in some aspects.
The fact that there are triats like those, doesn’t mean that all dual skills are meant to be damage skills. It doesn’t mean also that those traits are meant to synergize well with all dual skills.

Dual Skills are meant to be damage skills, if they were not, WHY is there traits dedicated to giving them more damage, that doesn’t make sense to a utility skill, and your counter-acting what you said before about the skill doing good damage, now its a utility skill?

Why do we have traits to increase the damage by a mere 5% and critical chance by a mere 5% to one attack if the damage is not significant?

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Because you have 12-15 Initiative, and your using flanking strike twice that is 8 initiative, then you use another attack and have 1 or 0 left, how exactly, pray tell, do you kill the target now? he has abilities that are not on cool-down, and if hes another thief, he has 12-15 initiative at his disposal ready to strike at you.

Dancing Dagger does little damage, might as well not use it, it costs too much initiative and most classes can remove a condition every 10 seconds for free.

Infiltrator’s Strike is VERY nice, but if your enemy is 901 meters away, you will do absolutely nothing and waste 3 initiative.

You “need” initiative to kill someone.

If you used FS twice and failed to remove the key boons, than you failed.
The main source of damage of a S/D thief, like or not, is the autoattack.
Who said that an autoattack should deal less damage compared to other skills? Many autoattacks in this game deal more damage that any other skill in the same bar. Just look at Necro’s dagger, Warrior’s axe, hammer and greatsword, Ranger’s sword, shortbow, longbow and greatsword and so on…
In many cases, autoattack is a source of damage, it isn’t something you use while all your skills are unavailable.

Flanking Strike is an utility, which also deals a bit more damage than autoattack, but its main scope isn’t empty life bars. So is Dancing Dagger. The nerf to its damage was a clear message; it is meant to be an utility, not a damage output skill.

If the enemy is 901 meters away, you closed the gap for 900 meters, so you are 1 meter away from your target. Pretty good, don’t you think?
You have on your bar 2 skills who are capable to close a gap or snare your enemy, plus the utilities and the other weapon set you have, most likely a ranged set (shortbow maybe?). So, a running target shouldn’t be a problem at all.

Dual skills are not meant to be utility skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_wield_skill

Deadly Arts
Combined Training – Dual skills deal 5% more damage.

Critical Strikes
Combo Critical Chance – Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.

4/5 are the utility skills.

Theres no point to use these traits for flanking strike because it does such low damage, Dual Skills ARE damage skills, otherwise they would not have traits dedicated to making them do more damage!

Since this seems to be not the case for most of them besides Death Blossom, I think these traits need a big change.

My thread broken?

lOKI.8152:

I disagree – FS only needs better tracking. And Daecollo and Teabaker if you want to bash bunker d/d eles again pls go to the Ele forums.

Everyone keeps mentioning them in my thread, a good Ele has NOTHING to fear from S/D.

Rune of the Water — 5%, 10% and 15%
Rune of the Monk — 5%, 10% and 15%
Rune of Sanctuary — 5% and 10%
(Use all 3 of these as an elementalist to gain 70% Boon Duration.)

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcazz9mMRohMMRohM0xa0xzMRVVoq

Get all Soldiers Gear (Power/Toughness/Vitality.)
If In WvWvW, get Power/Toughness/Vitality on Armor, Carrion Jewelry (Condition Damage, Vitality, Power.) with Beryl Orbs. (2% Critical Damage/Toughness/Vitality.)

For Weapons: Get 100% Critical chance when Swapping attunement, since you do it so much you can make your big hits to grant this…

Each Attunement can be reapplied every 10 seconds, meaning you can get 7 seconds of protection, regeneration, might, swiftness every 10 seconds…

Each Aura Grants another 5.1 seconds of protection, meaning you now have 100% Protection forever, even if your being stripped of boons constantly, you can immediately reapply your boons by changing auras or using your glyphs… its absolutely rediculous trying to remove the buffs when YOU CAN REAPPLY THEM SO QUICKLY…

And guess what, even with all this, HE HAS 100% Swiftness still, and ride the lightning, and burning speed, HE CAN OUT RUN You, even with Infiltrator’s strike, shadowstep, signet of shadows, he out run you.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

You know I like being useful in groups, but its hard to be useful in groups when autoattack is your highest damage ability!

You know, its nice to steal all of someones buffs, but then you have 0 initiative and he has 90% of his health… Then he can just run away and reset the fight!

Dude, you have just to remove the most worthy boons, not spamming your Flanking Strike until your enemy is cleaned. Is that so hard to get?

How can he run away and reset the fight if you have Dancing Dagger and Infiltrator’s Strike?

Because you have 12-15 Initiative, and your using flanking strike twice that is 8 initiative, then you use another attack and have 1 or 0 left, how exactly, pray tell, do you kill the target now? he has abilities that are not on cool-down, and if hes another thief, he has 12-15 initiative at his disposal ready to strike at you.

Dancing Dagger does little damage, might as well not use it, it costs too much initiative and most classes can remove a condition every 10 seconds for free.

Infiltrator’s Strike is VERY nice, but if your enemy is 901 meters away, you will do absolutely nothing and waste 3 initiative.

You “need” initiative to kill someone.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah, because it takes 2 people, a S/D Thief and another guy just to kill one guy. (maybe because it does less damage then autoattack… LOL)

And barely hits?

Again with this less than autoattack kitten.
I know that you are usual to mash three buttons and get a kill, but usually Guild Wars 2 isn’t about this.

You know I like being useful in groups, but its hard to be useful in groups when autoattack is your highest damage ability!

You know, its nice to steal all of someones buffs, but then you have 0 initiative and he has 90% of his health… Then he can just run away and reset the fight!

You can be in the city with no enemies around and still get revealed debuff from leaving shadow refuge (early.)

Guardian
Main-hand
Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.
Powerful Blades – Sword and spear damage is increased by 5%.

Warrior
Main-hand
Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%.
Off-hand
Dual Wielding – Damage is increased by 5% when wielding an axe, mace, or sword in your offhand.

Ranger
Main-hand
Martial Mastery – Sword, greatsword, and spear skills recharge 20% faster.

Mesmer
Main-hand
Blade Training – +50 precision while wielding a one-handed sword or a spear. Reduces the recharge of sword and spear skills by 20%.

Everyone who uses a sword gets a trait for it, except us!

Combo Critical Chance should be changed to “Swashbuckler” “15% Critical Chance while using a sword in the Main hand.”

Yeah, because it takes 2 people, a S/D Thief and another guy just to kill one guy. (maybe because it does less damage then autoattack… LOL)

And barely hits?

Teabaker.9524:

.. You want to give up a spamable boon remover for a kitteny aoe? Just hit with your autoattack, it’s a very strong aoe.

Boon Removal is only really nice when you need to avoid big one time boons like protection/Stability.

If Infiltrator’s Strike had the boon removal, it wouldn’t be spammable and it would make the attack better all around, giving flanking strike room to be a whirl.

That would be a good idea actually.

Pistol Whip isn’t a Whirl, it also stuns and takes longer then it states to cast, and its a stun attack, which means less damage.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Hundred Blades does 50k Damage.

This does nothing but damage, so it should be high, you can avoid it.

It does the same amount of damage as whirling wrath.

But with an evade and 0s recharge.
If you think it is balanced, I really don’t know how to rationally argue with you.

A full flanking strike requires about 1.85 seconds to land, because of the rediculous animation.

sorrow.2364:

My Flanking Strike always hit the target with the first strike (actually the evading animation is fast) when I use it in melee range while sometimes it misses the second strike.

I mean, have you looked at what you proposed?
You didn’t specified the initiative cost, but I’ll assume that it completely unload your initiative bar to be half close to be balanced.
If you are capable using that skill two times in a row, it is for sure hell game breaking.
2*1250 damage is 2300 damage.
It is the damage of 3 full damage backstabs (800*3), but AoE and with 3/4s channel time. This means that in 1s and an half you are capable to deal 20k+ AoE damage while evading.
Just lol.

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah! 7 Initative to do the same damage as one autoattack and steal a boon!

Probably it isn’t all about damage?

This does nothing but damage, so it should be high, you can avoid it.

It does the same amount of damage as Whirling Wrath, but just for you, I edited it to do less damage.

ensoriki.5789:

His FS isn’t special. FS isn’t as inaccurate as it appears to be when you factor in the immobilize from Inf-strike and the enemies own position or skills. Is it Perfect? No, it’s not however while the 2nd hit is definitely hard to hit, the 1st is reasonable enough to connect.

Yeah! 7 Initative to do the same damage as one autoattack and steal a boon!

Of course, you could just say with your usual response: They just don’t know how to use it properly like I do!

Well, we are not all Raptor Jesus. Sorry. My flanking strike does not allow me to walk on water, raise the dead, and cure sickness like yours does, so forgive me.

My Flanking Strike, unlike yours… BARELY hits when I want it to… and the animation usually flings me either away from my target to where hes moving to, or off center of the target so it looks like i’m dancing away from him.

Of course, to make both ideas work without doing anything, you could simply give thieves a sword offhand.

“4 could be some kind of parry attack.”
“5 could be some kind of stance.”

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Which is a chance to also fail, almost 50%,

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike would be much better boon removal, and don’t say thats overpowered, because it really is not, you would have to spend 5 initative to do just that over/over, that ability is NOT spammable, you have to use the other ability first before you can use it again.

Whatever, none of my ideas make sense obviously, since i’m obviously much worse then you are and I cannot compare to the ideas you have come up with and everyone uses S/D.

The first hit never fail if you are close enough. Just test it out.

Infiltrator’s Strike is hell good as it is now.
Come on, everyone wants a teleport with damage, immobilization, an on-demand stunbreak with a condition removal whose initiative cost can also be paid in installments.
Do you really think that adding also a boon removal makes some sense?

Marduh.4603:

Flanking strike – 1.5 second cast time|low damage|worst animation
Your theoretical reasoning does not matter. In tpvp fs – useless crap.

Yep.
Your made-up datas matter instead. 1.5s cast time? Seriously? Where did you take that info?

He means the time it actually takes for the animation to finish.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/sorrow-2364/showposts

All your posts are just critic posts, I have not seen one post where you have made constructive feedback to an idea other then “Wow this is a terrible idea!” Why not explain in detail why its a terrible idea and what you would do to change it to not make it worthless, because seriously, how many thieves in SPvP use S/D in tournament play, None of them.

If only 2% of a population of a class uses an ability and the rest refuse to use it, then there is something wrong with it.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

You ever use the ability? it misses 50% of the time anyways, might as well make it something useful in PVP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike should remove a boon instead, it makes much more sense.

Always getting better.
The most useful Sword skill should also remove a boon, other than giving a cheap shadowstep, a stunbreaker and a condition removal.

Flanking Strike’s first strike ALWAYS hit if you are in melee range (the pathing adjust on the enemy if you press the button while close enough), the second one may miss, but you are able to move once the first strike hit, so you have control over the second hit to land.

Which is a chance to also fail, almost 50%,

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike would be much better boon removal, and don’t say thats overpowered, because it really is not, you would have to spend 5 initative to do just that over/over, that ability is NOT spammable, you have to use the other ability first before you can use it again.

Whatever, none of my ideas make sense obviously, since i’m obviously much worse then you are and I cannot compare to the ideas you have come up with and everyone uses S/D.

sorrow.2364:

Do you still believe that Flanking Strike is that bad that you want to make it a Whirl?
A WHIRL?!

So, you don’t only want to remove the only cheap boon removal thief has, so the only tool he has against bunkers, but you also want to make it into a spammable 3/4s channel time, evade and 1200+ damage whirl.

Please, ask ArenaNet to join their balancing team.

You ever use the ability? it misses 50% of the time anyways, might as well make it something useful in PVP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike should remove a boon instead, it makes much more sense.

Thieves need access to more non-stealthy damaging abilities, a small whirl attack would make a lot more sense then a long winded poor tracking attack that pretty much puts you randomly around the target.

Laika.8795:

The boon strip is a vital roll of FS. What you suggested is just a hackneyed Whirling Axe which we already get from warrior, with an OP evade to boot.

FS is fine as is, just fix the pathing or employ a better methodology to the strikes.

Whirling Axe channel is 3¼ second long channel.

This channel would be ¾ of a second, only a ¾ evade, it would not be a 3¼ second evade like the steal axe was, sorry, it would have the same evasion as death blossom/pistol whip.

Please think before you speak.

Bountiful Theft is really all the boon stripping/stealing we need.

Whirling Axes is also using two axes, not a sword and a dagger, Whirling Axes also has a 1200 range while this has a 450 range, and does not have evasion, not even the stolen version.

Whenever you make a thread like this, it seems that you only get critics, because the people who think its a good idea usually don’t post.

To be honest, thieves don’t have many AOE abilities, and this is really exactly what we need for S/D, an AOE that hits many targets and makes people afraid of closing to us in melee, Death Blossom does it for condition damage, but S/D should be for direct damage.

We need different types of thieves, not just stealth thieves who rely on CnD for Direct Damage, but whenever we suggest an idea thats not the norm, the same trolls who don’t want us stealthing all the time don’t want us to have any non-stealth direct damage either, its SILLY.

Laika.8795:

No, that is not what it needs. It needs to be a stab + shadowstep to the rear + stab.

We don’t need anymore buggy attacks, we already have shadow steps that we can activate during the attack to do that.

And then what would the point be to an evade?

No longer steals boons, but a high damage aoe attack. (What we need for PvE.)

Spin-Blur in place and swing your sword and dagger around, You can move while spinning.
¾ Channel Time.
Damage (6x): 1,051
Combo Finisher: Whirl (100%.)
Range: 450

You evade attacks while channeling.

(you can use the old animation a little bit for this too, just make it like a blur dance.)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike should have the boon removal added to it, it is NOT spammable, after you use it, you get http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return, so its not like heartseeker where I can just pay 3 int over/over to strip boons, I can only strip one boon every 10 seconds or pay 8 initative (A LOT) to strip another boon, aka not worth it.

Many classes have utility skills in there weapons, but actually do a lot of damage, i’m wondering why Thieves have all these amazing venoms that immobilize/poison/snare and all that, but then we have weapon shots that specifically do the same thing, making our utility like venoms worthless.

For example:

Pistols: Head Shot, VERY VERY VERY Low Damage, but also dazes.

Should it not be, Very Very High Damage, but then you can use a venom to make it daze? wouldn’t that add better synergy with our weapon slots and not pigeon hole us into using 3/3/3/3/3, or 2/2/2/2/2/2… ?

Wouldn’t it be better if we had specific attacks that could trigger a venom? and not all of our attacks could?

Head Shot would be much better of an attack if it was “High Damage”, “Also applies a Venom.”.

Withdraw should work with traits that are dodges, and withdraw should move to where your looking, making it better for getting away, currently its hard to use for running around because when you wanna get out and heal your first instinct, especially in this game is to turn around and run, but if you turn around and use withdraw, it rolls you towards what you don’t want to be by.. LOL

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

Flanking Strike strips a random boon, you could strip 1 stack of might…
Your the one who suggested flanking strike, I find the attack to be useless compared to cloak and dagger.

As far I know, Flanking Strike removes the last boon applied and also, when talking about Might, it removes the whole stack, not only one stack.

Both the attacks, Flanking Strike and Cloak and Dagger, are on your bar for a reason. You are supposed to use them both to play effectively and versatile.

Evade and stab your foe in the back twice. First strike removes 1 boon.
Damage: 252
Second strike damage: 504
Range: 130

“1 boon.”

It chooses 1 random boon and removes it.

Elementalists, The subject of the matter, do not get as much might as other classes do, but the buff helps them so when people remove buffs, it has a chance to remove the might and keep all the important buffs.