Guild Wars 2

Tulisin.6945:

As a thief that enjoys stacking lots of might and granting buffs to my group via Thrill of the Crime, Pack runes, and Battle Roar I definitely get my money’s worth out of +boon duration. Boon duration isn’t the only stat that is nearly useless if you leave it un-utilized though. +Condition damage, for instance, does nothing for many S/P or S/D setups. The fact is that there is good potential for synergy (only 5 points in Acrobatics will give you a free boon), even if not every thief chooses to utilize it.

Not that I’d mind seeing more boons on thief weapon skills. A might, fury, or vigor-granting weapon skill would be most welcome.

To bad boon duration does not effect our defensive things like it does every other class.

There should be a trait that makes venom triggers inflict stacks of confusion for more condition damage.

lots of buggy and worthless traits, plenty of ways to add new things, new traits and new ways to get things.. GEAR IS THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO ADD…

We don’t need anymore bleed, we need fire.

Oldgrimm.8521:

remove the damage of the mug

instead give it 5 stacks of bleed

Sets a bomb in the targets bag and sets them on fire.

Mug is one of our only “good” Traits… lol.

Unless you raise PvP gears stats to be the same as PvE gear, its a terrible idea to add this armor to the game, you should just stick to exotics.

((this has nothing to do with the other topics, this is a PvP Topic, and I want opinions on this.))

Rystlwulf.1476:

Wow a call for increased stealth duration when everyone is screaming for a stealth nerf – an invitation to flamers.

We don’t need boon love, we just don’t need to be broken.

Its mostly the rendering issue, not our actual stealth, you have no idea how much of a difference it will make.

“I still use Pistol Whip after changes.”

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

They extend duration though.

Which can be cured with 1 cond removal, and have caps.

25 stacks of bleed, 10 confusions, poisons, and burns can all be cured with condition removal. Does not change the fact that it can be extended to last longer, thus more damage over all.

IF Venoms had Bleeds or Confusion, it would be nice.

“Each Venom apply’s one stack of Daze.” would make venom’s perfect.

I am saying most conditions can be removed easily if the other person has the ability up or back up again. Condition builds can be powerful if you can apply them often enough or make them last long enough. Burns are the most powerful condition right now a player has access to and the longer it lasts the better.

Now 5 seconds of daze would be insane, a necros 2 second is perfect since its a nice cone but not over powered because its a short duration. Now if you could have 5 stacks of daze at 1 second each, that is putting it on level with moa elite of 10 seconds of not being able to do anything almost.

Argh, I got Daze mixed with Confusion.

Each Venom used should apply 1 second of “1” stack of Confusion.

Well i wouldn’t mind confusion as much, so no complaints really against that besides why is it confusion off a poisons attack. i can let it slide since we have magic.

Well it makes sense too, Venoms would be confusing to your body, maybe even 2-3 seconds of it, it would make them powerful, since Venoms are mostly condition damage and confusion is applied from condition damage, it would be good

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

They extend duration though.

Which can be cured with 1 cond removal, and have caps.

25 stacks of bleed, 10 confusions, poisons, and burns can all be cured with condition removal. Does not change the fact that it can be extended to last longer, thus more damage over all.

IF Venoms had Bleeds or Confusion, it would be nice.

“Each Venom apply’s one stack of Daze.” would make venom’s perfect.

I am saying most conditions can be removed easily if the other person has the ability up or back up again. Condition builds can be powerful if you can apply them often enough or make them last long enough. Burns are the most powerful condition right now a player has access to and the longer it lasts the better.

Now 5 seconds of daze would be insane, a necros 2 second is perfect since its a nice cone but not over powered because its a short duration. Now if you could have 5 stacks of daze at 1 second each, that is putting it on level with moa elite of 10 seconds of not being able to do anything almost.

Argh, I got Daze mixed with Confusion.

Each Venom used should apply 1 second of “1” stack of Confusion.

I redid it a bit, I got Daze mixed with Confusion.. lol…

gamefreak.5673:

Daecollo.9578:

gamefreak.5673:

They extend duration though.

Which can be cured with 1 cond removal, and have caps.

25 stacks of bleed, 10 confusions, poisons, and burns can all be cured with condition removal. Does not change the fact that it can be extended to last longer, thus more damage over all.

IF Venoms had Bleeds or Confusion, it would be nice.

“Each Venom applys one stack of Daze.” would make venoms perfect.

gamefreak.5673:

They extend duration though.

Which can be cured with 1 cond removal, and have caps.

Compared to another classes utility, Necromancer Wells, they also apply conditions, except they are AOE and pulsate, so it doesn’t matter if you give them to your friends, they also do things like turn Conditions into Boons and Boons into conditions and also do a lot of damage.

Dagins.5163:

Fun fact: venomous aura gives free venoms to up to 4 allies around (4 allies + 1 thief = 5 = AoE cap).

Fun Fact, Venoms don’t stack! :>

Krathalos.3461:

Having to waste your condition removals on your own abilities is asinine. This wouldn’t be good enough to warrant debuffs at the end. You just get three boons for 30 seconds. Necromancers at least benefit from putting conditions on themselves.

Look at our abilities and traits, now come back and say this again.

Krathalos.3461:

This is awful. Pretty much the same as the warrior’s elite signet, but it also debuffs you at the end and doesn’t have a passive. That’s not even worth using in any way.

We have ways of curing the de-buffs though, and SoR is not instant cast.

You wouldn’t know a good ability if it smacked ya in the head. :/

bomber.1540:

we have plenty of abilities to stack might, fury, regen and swiftness and increasing the duration by upto 30% is massive

Not really, going from 10 duration to 13 on Thrill of the Crime, and 10 to 13 is weaksauce for 30 points, Compare this to the boons every other class recieves, its all effected by boon duration.

Almost every other class has boons that last up to 30 seconds, or heavy stacks of protection and regeneration that can last forever with this buffs.

So an extra 0.6 seconds of 8% runspeed (SoS is 25%, 33% Replaces it, not adds to it.) and an extra 1.5 seconds of regeneration we can pretty much get infinite of anyways because of Cloak And Dagger for 30 traits in vitality.

Meanwhile, other classes can make there buffs permament, gaining infinite fury or vigor or swiftness.

Our Traits/Skills don’t give enough boons to have 30% Boon Duration as a Mastery Trait.

@Mavec
I’m sorry your math is incorrect.
15 points in Vitality is 15% Boon Duration.
2 seconds + 15% = 2.3 seconds of swiftness.

Extra % Stealth would make our “Regeneration in Stealth” Moves 100% better, that IS our Buffs.

We don’t have heavy access to any sort of boon like most other classes, why do we have “Boon Duration?” it should be replaced with “Stealth Duration.”

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Not worth it, especially in WvW. I would much rather just use dagger storm imo

You can’t use Dagger Storm under water.

People don’t even engage in fights in WvW underwater so your argument is irrelevant. Stealing “consume plasma” is better than this.

I didn’t want anything OP, this is mostly for Pistol and Sword Skills and making thieves do more sustained damage.

But it’s not actually sustained..It’s just like burst but as soon as it’s over you’re pretty much dead. You say you don’t want anything OP so you come up with something that is completely underpowered…Why would any thief use this when you can steal consume plasma and save it? Removing the detriments after it’s over is in no way over powered. Consume plasma has the same effects and many classes already have similar skills that have no detriments after.

We have ways of removing condition, and theres things that lower condition durations as well, we also have traits that go off being immobilized.

Also, you forget about boon duration increasing the duration of the effects, currently boon duration does not do much for thieves because we really don’t have that many good boons… (stealth is not effected by boon duration…)

We have shortbows ‘5’, and shadow step, and condition cures, we won’t be completely vulnerable, just harder to get away, the buff is good if you can play your toon right.

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Not worth it, especially in WvW. I would much rather just use dagger storm imo

You can’t use Dagger Storm under water.

People don’t even engage in fights in WvW underwater so your argument is irrelevant. Stealing “consume plasma” is better than this.

I didn’t want anything OP, this is mostly for Pistol and Sword Skills and making thieves do more sustained damage.

Mosharn.8357:

Daecollo.9578:

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

Oh were going to play the perma swift card ok.
Thief:
5 skill on bow and your out of there. Dodge for swiftness then heartseeker out of there.
Almost all weps have shadow step.

So we got that out the way now stealth
Perma stealth to your hearts desire while hauling kitten and never being seen.
Failed your bs combo? Np keep heartseekin till target dies.

Leave with no trace but a dead body. Picking off your target with ease if you are a skilled thief.

War:
ll the swiftness you have said and the moment skills.
When suddenly you realize your whole glass cannon build is based around KS.
Even if you are on top a keep or tower wall you will still go down instantly. Also you have to stand on top of the wall to get a clear shot and leave your self wide open to take one killer shot. Theres so many drawbacks. In an openfield gc rifle wars are easy pickings for any ranged class. While thief can be like “now you see me now you dont…now you dont see your self either” "think i will move have way around this place to 2 hit my next target. While a rifle ks gc war is like kill or be killed and zerker stance only gives you a 2nd chance..Not to mention zerker stance is a utility unless you go full dum dum and get the trait. So wars lose a utility and the skill your complaning about is bugged by pierce as in no way it will 20k someone from 1500 if it wasnt bugged. Also it pins you in the spot and sure you can stop and wait another 10 sec to do it over while thief can run circles around you repeating the combo.

All said above is being compared between 2 experienced players.
A GC BS thief will pwn a GC KS war any day or night any day of the year unless the war switches weapons but wait that goes against the whole KS build so 2nd weapon dosent matter.

GG

“5” skill on the bow costs initative. “6” to be exact, hes not going to have that much initative if hes trying to kill you.

A KS Warrior can do its thing from 1500 range, this means you can be hiding on a mountain while a BS thief runs by…BAM ALL HIS HP… Use precision signet.. BAM AGAIN… hes dead, he won’t even beable to react because he can’t see you.

Doomdesire.9365:

Not worth it, especially in WvW. I would much rather just use dagger storm imo

You can’t use Dagger Storm under water.

Mosharn.8357:

Dosent seem very elitish but could throw in some might for 30 secs aswell

Well, Vigor is amazing for us with all of our traits,
We already gain might when we dodge. (with food, 2 stacks.)

Sorry about that, this is what i’m done with….

Basicly I want it to be high reward, high risk, like spices in Starwars Galaxies.

Oh god, I mean’t swiftness, not quickness.. LOL

Cooldown: 60 seconds.
Skill Type: Venom

The Thief Injects himself with this Venom.
Cast Time: Instant Cast Time.
Gain 30 seconds of Vigor.
Gain 30 Seconds of Fury.
Gain 30 Seconds of Swiftness.

After the buffs end, the thief gains:
Gain 10 Seconds of Weakness.
Gain 10 Seconds of Cripple.
Gain 10 Seconds of 1 Stack of Confusion.

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

Navzar.2938:

Daecollo.9578:

792 is increased by 3% if you have it traited (which you will if you use rifles for 30% critical damage bonus..), which is 815 damage, 9 more damage then backstab.

There are many ways to get your adrenaline back instantly.

Because that 9 makes such a difference… but since we’re at this.

Thief has many % damage increases too, 10% while enemy suffers from conditions, 5% extra from daggers 10% with 6+ initiative, and maybe 5% are all used in the same bs build, for a base total of 30%., or 50% while under 50% hp (but that’s only for half a kill if they don’t heal. So averages 40% I guess.

War: 12% at full adren (not sure if its calculated before or after the burst reduces the bar), 10% while enemy is bleeding, 4.4 from stick and move, 0-30% from trait line for bursts. However, you can’t use all that at the same time, you’ll have to give up something. Best possible would be extra 52%, but you’ll lose out on about 200 power.

So yeah, they’re still about the same damage wise.

Not true, they have a 9% Adrenaline Critical chance+ 40 precision per unused signet, +20% critical chance (forever fury), about 35% more critical chance. ((Critical chance is just as important as damage, if not moreso because it magnifies the value of power.))

If your using a greatsword you can get another 10% damage bonus on top of that and 10% more damage if your endurance is not full.

“10% with 6+ initiative” we are almost never over 6+ initative, we are a spammy class and do not rely a lot on such, but back stabs benefit from this."

Thieves can only get fury about 20% of the time, which sucks when you look at our weapon sets like S/P, S/D, which is why nobody uses them.

Also, the Greatsword has a 10% higher base damage then daggers, not to mention gaining might every critical.

Navzar.2938:

Kill shot has a base power of 792 at max adrenaline. Backstab has a base power of 806 from behind. So no, its not OP when working properly. Although it is a ranged bs, the 1.75cast and having to gather adrenaline make up for that (imo). As others stated, its the bs combo that’s OP, not backstab.
Also, to a glass cannon, stealth and mobility definitely cover 8k hp and the armor difference.

792 is increased by 3% if you have it traited (which you will if you use rifles for 30% critical damage bonus..), which is 815 damage, 9 more damage then backstab.

There are many ways to get your adrenaline back instantly.

They probably killed a bunch of bots running and AFK farming nodes.

Kallist.5917:

Was talking to a friend about this and even said something about it on another topic.
Thief is gonna get Nerfed, too many people say we’re OP for Anet to not do it. And no matter how many people say QQ, its not gonna stop. So the best thing we can do is try to find a nerf that will work, the sooner we do that, the better.

No matter what nerfs we get, people will * that we are spamming X Skill, we’ve seen it several times now. So my idea is to give all of our Initiative skills a system like the cooldown system, but unique to the Thief.

My idea for it was that when a Thief uses a Skill, it kicks off a countdown like all the other skills. But we can still use our skills that are under cooldown, we just spend more Initiative to use them again. It could even be a stacking system with the Initiative cost increasing the more we use it with out letting the timer expire(maybe it resets every time we use it).

Honestly, as a Thief, its a Nerf I would welcome. It may even get rid of the people who went Thief because they think hes OP.

As long as the regeneration rate is 1.0 and not 1.6 and the traits nolonger have a CD, and the regeneration traits are doubled.

I think my Thief would have better results trying to kill someone with nerf guns…

80 Guardian/Elementalist Bunker can do better.

I want the basilisk laser + no cast time, casting times for venom ’s is rediculous, especially for an elite.

Oozo.7856:

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

Understood. Just for the record, the damage he is doing in that movie with killshot is far more gamebreaking than backstab build thieves. In fact, I think 11115 pistol/dagger thieves are far more of an issue than dagger/dagger thieves.

The reasons why there haven’t been a ton of calls for nerfs that that killshot damage is that a lot of people probably haven’t been hit with it. That will change, of course know that people know about it. A lot of people have been backstabbed, hence more complaints.

That will change when they nerf thief.

Honestly, Kill Shot does not even take up resources if you miss the attack or its blocked or dodged or you quit channeling, it just puts on a low CD and you can use it again.

testpig.5018:

-Class is visible at all times
-Can’t move while casting
-3second cast timer
-can’t be chained by to back to back(takes time to build up to being able to fire off that shot that may or may not hit
-notice it’s only being used in zerg on zerg battles, where players are just running around like chickens with there heads cut off, worthless in the small scale fights

You can’t move with Pistol Whip either, too bad it doesn’t do damage now (apparently it did too much damage!), even if you move away from kill shot it can still hit you from 1500 range!

Actually it has a 1 3/4 second cast time, not 3 seconds, and 0.87 seconds with quickness!

Yes it can, you can get it to 8 second recast, use your abilities to get instant adrenaline back, and fire it, 3 seconds later, fire it again. (especially with precision signet, rifle volley gives you half your adrenaline back!)

I use it in SPVP all the time for 10-11k Critical hits, its funny because channeled abilities “Ignore Stealth”… “LolThieves.”

If you think your going to miss? fear not! just stand back up after he wastes his dodges and wait 1 second to use the ability again! (your adrenaline isn’t taken when you use the skill like you use initiative.)

They give up on us?

“Venoms are amazing, I am glad I can find a build focused around them and that they’re traits are not spread around and that I can use them to reliably heal my group and real utility like other classes get!”

I hope the developers are reading our ideas, P/P must be the most boring weapon set ever made.

Its currently a useless trait.

It would be cool if Body Shot/Sneak Attacks spots were switched.
Lower the damage a lot but keep the bleeding damage.

(uses sneak attacks animation.)
Body Shot attack with rapid fire from your pistol and make your foe bleed.
Damage (5x): 168
5 Bleeding: 4 s (850 damage)
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 900

(uses the same animation as poison dart volley)
Poison your foe with a sneak attack.
Damage (5x): 605
Poison: 6 s
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 900

Change the trait to give you a 33% chance to apply vulnerability on criticals, no CD.

Yeah…

Dagger/Pistol would be way OP if it costed three…

… don’t know what to do then, Pistol Condition Build needs reliable Stealth.

Don’t really know how to fix P/P without making everything else OP, sucks.

Perhaps making Black Powder Stealth you, that would break the “Infinite Stealth” combo, because you would already be stealth and if you leaped someone it would reveal them, instead of leaping after and then stealthing after damage is dealt.

“Never kill thy neighboring thief, instead, high five and continue to roam.”

Tulisin.6945:

The difference is that Headshot and Black Powder are useful in ways not just concerned with putting out maximum damage, whereas Body Shot is an ability specifically meant to increase total damage but fails to do so in most situations.

Headshot is already quite powerful as-is and it would be risky to decrease the initiative on it. I favor giving it a 100 % crit rate to allow some unique synergy with crit procs.

Black Powder is incredibly powerful as well, moreso in PvE than PvP, but the pulsing AE blind field is very strong in the right hands. If anything, I’d like to see the skill changed to be applied on the target’s location instead of the thief’s.

Making Vital Shot a 100% Projectile Finisher would fix Black Powder. (or lowering the initative cost to 3.) (it would also make pistol/pistol stealthy.)
Making Head Shot not so situational by giving it the same damage as “rush”. (or lowering the initiative cost to 1 or 2).
Making Body Shot cost 2 initiative would fix it.

Body Shot should at least do the same damage as other abilities that cause vulnerability from other classes.

Projectile Finishers stealth you in black powder’s field, right?

20% is way too low for the skillset’s overall dps and skill choices, it leaves too much “random” over “skill.”

Poor Traits, Poor Damage, Utility Costs too much.

(Vital Shot), Excellent Source of Condition Damage, but it does not go well with unload at all…

(Headshot), high initiative and suffers the same problem bodyshot does, it does 2 times less damage then auto-attack, might as well not do damage, spam it you do no damage yourself.

(Black Powder.), this does very little damage, costs 6 initative and only is good for its combo field does 2 times less damage then auto-attack, and the stealth field does not last long, spam it you no damage yourself.

(Body Shot.), this does very little damage, costs 3 initative, and is only good for others, and it does THE SAME damage as autoattack.

Honestly, Body Shot/Head Shot/Black Powder would be excellent if they were low-high cooldown attacks that didn’t cost initative, but because of how the system works these abilities just do not work.

These abilities were designed when initiative was 1 second regen rate, not 1.6.

Head Shot is an awesome interrupt, but honestly how many times do you “really?” need to use it as one, almost never, sure it can really save someone or really make a difference but its WAY too situational and costs too much initiative, it would be good if it has a 20 second cooldown, but we don’t have cool downs.

Black Powder is an awesome combo field, but ALSO very situational, it costs way too much for what it does, it does not really do damage and all it does is the stealth field, and its more of a melee attack since it drops the stealth field at your feet and not the targets feet.

Black Powder would be amazing if Vital Shot had a 100% Combo Finisher.
Headshot would be amazing if it did least 436 damage, and the 1/4 second daze.
Body Shot would be amazing if it did at least 256 damage, and the vulnerability.

The Trait needs to be 100% chance to bounce ONCE.

I was thinking more like “Muay Thai” fighting style, with quick strikes and kick boxing, the combos would not be as much damage as daggers would be, but cost a bit less and be more for tanking.

“1(1chain) – (some kind of punch.) – Does damage.
“1(2chain) – (some kind of flip kick.) – Does damage, restores endurance.
“1(3chain) – (some kind of punch and kick combo.) – Does half the damage of the other two, but is an evasion move and also restores 1 initative.

“2(1chain) – (1 initative) Knuckle Swipe – Does Damage, Causes 2 Vulnerability.
“2(2chain) – (2 initative) Gut Punch – Does Damage, Causes 5 Vulnerability.
“2(3chain) – (3 initative) Leg Thrust – Does High Damage, Evasion.

“3 – (4 Initiative) Blocks, if block is successful dazes and throws the target down.
“3 – (1 Initiative.) if you click it during block.) Feint the block and kick your target, causing push back and does little damage, you gain evasion for this duration.

“4 – (5 initiative.) Cobra Strike – x8 Hits, the first hit causes poison, you gain evasion for its channeling but cannot move.

“5 – (6 Initative.) Cobra Stance – Increases damage taken by 100% for 3 seconds, Gain Quickness for 3 seconds and you gain one initiative each time you successfully hit your target for the next 3 seconds. (this move could screw you.)

“1(Stealth.) Trip your target, causing knockdown and 10 vulnerability, this attack does very little damage.

The fighting style would resemble how Teras Kasi fight in SWG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP5gX09YgZk

“I use head shot over my other skills all the time because it does such high damage.”