Guild Wars 2

Published on Jul 11, 2012 by Vudani

Its not like heartseeker, base dps, stealth was nerfed recently at all.

Having orbs make repairs cheaper is giving them a combat value, just not … stat wise.

Don’t see how WoW has anything to do with this.. :/

My Warrior is in full Knights, and has 15 points in toughness for higher regeneration, and the trait that gets you another 200 toughness when impaired, which happens a lot.

Warriors hit like trucks with the right traits, but mine is a tank as well as a DPSer.

if I was in Full berserkers, I would probably be hitting more then 18k.

And your being ignorant yourself, if i’m doing more damage then the fight naturally does not last as long.

The shorter the fight is, the better everything goes because of how CDs work.

Would you rather have a fight that you ignore 10% of the damage (blinds.) that lasts 10 minutes…or…

Would you rather have a fight that you ignore 0% of the damage, and lasts 5 minutes?

I think you can awnser this one for me.

Warriors AUTOATTACK does more damage then CB.

My warriors hundred blades hits for 18000 damage.

I’m glad you like doing that to mobs who are immune to those effects.

Stop linking prenerf videos where all the thief does is press 2, the thief has suffered about 4-5 damage nerfs since then.

Perma blind?

Blind takes 6 initative… and does no damage…

Anyone who just stands there spamming blind needs punished.. ohwait.. they already are, they don’t do damage.

Ranger with a bird blinds more then a thief does.

Because I can already do a lot of what the venoms do without putting them on my utility bar.

I hope this comes in soon…. but I don’t expect it too…

Cluster Bomb is Slow, the slowest AOE in the game…
Shadow Refuge is on a LOOONG cooldown…
Scorpion Wire Is ignored by bosses.
Basilisk Venom lasts 1 second.
Pistol offhand spammable smokecloud is cool, until you play a 80 warrior and realize 100b kills them, who cares about a stupid smokecloud if they are all dead?

I play an 80 warrior, thief, my first toon was a thief, and then I realized how useless they were in pve and rerolled to warrior.

Shadow Refuse has a HUGE cooldown, almost longer then 1 banner from a warrior.
…..
Its nice for short fights, but for long fights its just .. not even worth it.

You should drop berserker’s gear for knight’s gear.

Wondering what people think of it.

Cool, meanwhile the warrior’s banners are doing AOE healing/buffing your stats and curing all your conditions with warhorn and stacking up 25 vulnerability on the target and doing good damage.

Elementalists are AOE healing twice and giving you swiftness, and just surviving and doing good damage, while also providing protection.

Rangers are giving you all critical chance/swiftness/vigor and doing good damage.

Necromancers are throwing down wells to make everyone do more damage and healing them, they are also healing everyone and doing decent damage, probably even tanking the name and debuffing it with blind, chill, and weakness.

Engineers are throwing down condition cures and group heal stims and area regeneration and protection while doing really good damage.

Guardians are throwing down condition curing, group stability, aoe fire, aoe healing and protection and regeneration while doing decent damage.

Your doing 20% more damage under 50% HP, grats.

Looks like your group is pulling you, because there is no way your surviving melee without some kind of group buff helping you.

Venoms: These are now active buffs that make the thieves weapon have different effects based on which Venom you choose. Venom’s can only be applied out of combat.
_

New Animation: When you use a venom, you coat your weapon in venom. You actually pull out a towel coated in venom and clean your weapons with it.

If your pistol is in the main hand, you have an animation that loads your pistol with special shells.

((Each venom takes 4 seconds to cast now, and roots you for the animation.))
______________________
Basilisk Venom: Your attacks have a 10% chance to turn your foes to stone. (lasts 160 seconds, can only occur once every 7 seconds.) [(Stone lasts 1 second.)]

Devourer Venom: Your attacks have a 10% chance to immobilize. (lasts 160 seconds, this can only occur once every 5 seconds.) [(Immobilize lasts 2 seconds.)]

Ice Drake Venom: Your attacks have a 10% chance to chill. (lasts 160 seconds, this effect can only occur once every 2 seconds.) [(Chill lasts 3 seconds.)]

Skale Venom: Your attacks have a 10% chance to make foes weak and vulnerable. (lasts 120 seconds.) [(Weakness Lasts 3 seconds, Vulnerability Lasts 10 seconds.)]

Spider Venom: Your attacks have a 10% chance to poison your foe. (Lasts 160 seconds, this effect can only occur once every 2 seconds.) [(Poison lasts 4 seconds.)]

Venom Trait Changes:

Quick Venoms – Increases the tigger chance of venoms by 5%, this trait also effects allies nearby if you have Venomous Aura. (self explanatory.)

Residual Venom – When a venom is cured, a second effect triggers afterwords, depending on which venom was cured, this trait also effects allies nearby if you have Venomous Aura. (this way it won’t be a useless trait, because it will work if they’re venom’s stack over yours.)
(([Basilisk Venom: 0.25 second daze.
Devourer Venom: 2 second cripple
Ice Drake Venom: 1.5 seconds of chill.
Skale Venom: 2 seconds of weakness.
Spider Venom: 2 second of poison.]))

Venomous Strength – Venom skills last longer, based on which venom.
(([Basilisk Venom: lasts 0.25 seconds longer.
Devourer Venom: lasts 0.5 seconds longer.
Ice Drake Venom: lasts 1 second longer.
Skale Venom: Weakness lasts 1.5 seconds longer, vulnerability lasts 2 seconds longer.
Spider Venom: lasts 2 seconds longer.]))

Venomous Aura – Allies close to you gain your venom’s, this effect immediately wears off when your allies stray to far away from you. (You are a moving banner, the buff only works to people standing close to you.)

Leeching Venom’s – Steal health when triggering a venom, based on that venom, this trait also effects allies nearby if you have Venomous Aura. (this will give the thief a way to heal the group.)
(([Basilisk Venom: Heals for 1050 base. (based on a longer internal CD.)
Devourer Venom: Heals for 750 base.
Ice Drake Venom: Heals for 550 base.
Skale Venom: Heals for 350 base.
Spider Venom: Heals for 550 base.]))
_

This makes venom’s more like what they are in real life, things you apply to your weapon to make it have a chance to hinder your opponents.

Exactly, but the thing about higher repair costs for losing side would encourage them to not just zerg the base and die over/over, they have a stat boost now so they are not as easy to kill.

Not many people realize how deep a 150 stat boost is.

I changed it though.

So basicly your just annoying your opponent to death, which is nice and all, but if your opponent uses pets or turrets, you lose if they can follow you around.

Honor Tokens are HARD to get, making them a 100% drop rate per kill would not be overdone at all, if you kill 250 players you should get an exotic piece.

For PVP:

Permanent Weakness – If they use Short bow or Dagger. (like explained above…)

Group Stealth – Shadow Refuge, long cool down, every other class has perma group utility.

Permanent Vunerability – Other Classes can do this too, AND get huge damage (Axe/Mace Warrior one example…) , Thieves cannot do ANY damage when they stack vulnerability on the target, might as well just attack.

Daze – Best on demand Daze in the game. (And do no damage… , Necromancers and Mesmers get much better Daze, THERE Dazes HURT.)

High Burst damage – I can Backstab every 3 sec … non stop (in the right build… Yeah, you can’t do anything else except backstab, try doing another spec and see how that works, and this is useless if your fighting a compitent enemy.)

The Best smoke and dark fields for combos. (Necromancer wells would like a word with you…)

Some of the best cripples and bleeds in the game. (Ranger would like a word with you…)

If its like that, nobody would bother getting the orbs, orbs have to give the team an huge advantage in some way. (JUST not make them kitteny stronger…)

Mostly all Boss mobs are immune to all of that.

Try Backstabbing a boss. (please…)

Group Stealth is on a long cool-down, and on a boss fight, your probably the one going down first.

Warriors have much better Vulnerability, ours is a joke compared to theirs.

Heres my suggestion:

Change orb buffs to be viable, but not overpowering, they should give you an advantage, but not in stats.

Each Orb should give a buff like this:
+33.3% Chance to get an Honor Token on Kill. (I’ve been pvping since the start, and I only have 200 tokens, I need 250 to get a piece of gear and i’ve already leveled 3 80s with full sets, honestly.)

-33.3% Repair Cost. (The side has an advantage if they are winning, NOT by stats, but the more orb buffs they have the less they have to pay to come back in the fight.)

This way, the orb buffs are STILL very viable, but they don’t give the players a HUGE advantage in a fight.

Out-manned Buff:
-15% Repair Costs.
-15% Siege Weapon Damage.
+150 to all stats.

With all 3 Orbs.
100% Chance to get an honor token on kill.
Repair costs are free.

This will make WvWvW alot more fun and balanced for the losing side, and STILL make orbs a viable asset to have.

This thread is almost 200 pages long, and we have not got an ETA, I love a good suprise as much of the next guy, but i’ve stopped playing until they add this feature, I cannot stand not having it.

The reason the thief class gets nerfed is most of our skills punish players for not paying attention and not playing there class to its fullest potential.

Thieves don’t have good DPS. (This isn’t burst damage, thieves have the best burst damage, but in dungeons our DPS is mediocre, even less then a necromancers if you could parse it, because after the burst, we cannot really do anything, whilst other classes can switch out weapons and keep burning there CDs.)

Thieves have very little utility besides an aoe stealth on a long CD. (Great, every minute and half I can stealth everyone!)

Thieves cannot really buff the group, unlike every other class. (AOE Venoms? lol, they don’t stack and are all gone in one auto attack, and its limited to only five players.)

Thieves only have two viable weapon sets. (D/D, Short-bow, the other sets are all “ok” but mostly mediocre compared to D/D, Short-bow.)

Thieves have SEVERAL under-powered traits, but also very good ones. (almost 75% of our traits are worthless, or were nerfed to the ground in beta, pretty much every thief you see is the same, there almost is not any difference.)

Thieves are the worst PVE Class. (We don’t bring anything good to the table, we can’t help the group, we have poor survivability, and we don’t do much DPS over a long stretch of time, our blinds are worthless against bosses, where you actually need them.) [Honestly, have you ever seen us in PVE? we have to kill something…then WAIT for our skills and initiative to come back up… then do it again, every other class can just go to the next mob, in big events we feel punished for this.]

Did you notice mostly all thieves are the same? whilst almost every other class has something special to do, all thieves mostly are the same.

Why? We have nothing else going for us, pistols are not viable, P/D,D/P are troll weapons at best, and sword dps was nerfed to the ground.

We have: Burst Damage and Stealth, that is it.

On the subject on the topic: No.

Reason: because dagger storm is a perfectly fine balanced elite skill, it only punishes players who range the thief, you should fix yourselves and your WvWvW raids before you fix and punish a class because of another persons weaknesses.

Thieves have to wait for there initiative to recharge to reuse them, Warriors 100b has a 6 second recast, plus they can switch weapons, like axes and keep using all their abilities, thieves can only spam one ability, then wait for int to recharge, then spam that 1 ability again.

Axes/Greatsword Skills do alot more damage then thieves skills.

Axes hit every target around the axe (its an aoe weapon.), daggers only hit one target.
Axe has higher autoattack damage then dagger.
Axe, you can use all abilities, then switch to greatsword and use all abilities, then go back to axe and have the next abilities up again.

this comes out to be about 4 times more damage, even more so the longer the fight is.

I have both classes, there is no comparison to a warrior and thief in pve, in pve a thief is useless for damage compared to a warrior, they are only good for one thing, spamming blind, and thats useless against bosses.

Warriors have better traits to increase damage of there weapons, and a higher critical chance just for being a warrior, they also get traits to increase there critical chance by 37% forever, no matter what the situation is.

Please be soon!

Thief vs Warrior, Thief Backstabs, Hammer laughs and instantly kills him.

Yep… not very fair, lol the severed dagger is now 2g whilst the reaper scythe is 40g/greatsword is 50g…

Defektive.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuL3-DlQPxg

Thief’s C/D Backstab Combo vs Proper Warrior.

That thief was beyond terrible. Thus making it a bad example.
Reason: He opens, and then just stands there. Plus his opening was incorrect.

Secondly, we all know that you can counter a thief as a hammer warrior. Consider I primarily play as a Hammer, I know this all to well.

The original post is in regards to already being in a fight, and having a CORRECT backstab build thief intercept you mid fight.

He used Steal, C/D, Backstab, and had full berserkers, the same thing that seems to kill everyone else.

He totally got one shot by that backstab! ….

Thief’s C/D Backstab Combo vs Proper Warrior.

How about we delete all classes and play hello kitty online adventures?

I don’t really like the LTP posts, he has a concern and i’m trying to help him, not call him bad.

Kirby.4951:

you guys teaming up on the fact that you don’t like it as thieves and crashing on me because i main a ranger. Isn’t helping your case that it should be changed. Have you tried fighting thieves as other classes at all? The fact that there is no way to remove stealth in the game is the problem. Just because counters exist doesn’t mean everyone in the game will run one. The counter to the shortbow speed was confusion and retaliation but no one tried to counter it they just complained about it being op. Building in a counter is a much better way to balance a game then just nerfing or buffing classes.

You can build a counter as ranger, its called traps, learn them.

Traps don’t care if the thief is stealth, traps don’t care about anything, and if a thief is trapped, you see the particle effects around the thief, even when hes stealthed, you see him getting hit with them.

How about you change it so it goes up faster when you have more, but goes up slower when you have less.
Regeneration Rate Currently: 1.6

Under 10% Initiative = 0.4 Initative Regeneration per second.
20% Initiative = 0.8 Initative Regeneration per second.
30% Initiative = 1.2 Initative Regeneration per second.
40% Initiative = 1.4 Initative Regeneration per second.
50% Initiative = 1.6 Initative Regeneration per second.
60% Initiative = 1.8 Initative Regeneration per second.
80% Initiative = 2 Initative Regeneration per second.
90% and over Initiative = 2.2 Initative Regeneration per second.

So if you spam all your initiative, your regen is very low, but if you pay attention to your stats and use your skills slower, its very high.

Tulisin.6945:

Swords do get a critrate advantage in the form of AE attacks. Double/triple the hit volume, double/triple the crits.

You seem to be trying to get these weapons balanced around some kind of >20 minute single-target PvE engagement, but those don’t even exist in GW2. Thieves already have good PvE DPS in situations wherein such a thing matters.

Well, 8-14 minutes.

We don’t actually do that good of PVE damage… but thats just me playing my warrior who does almost 4 times the damage of my thief.

How does AOEs make you critical better, that does not make a lint of sense…

Your a ranger, vs a thief, ever thought of placing your “TRAPS” on the ground under your feet so when he blinks to you hes immediately stunned/bled/poisoned/crippled over and over and over again… (because ranger traps work multiple times and are aoe, unlike thief ones that only work once and hit 1 target.)

Or, using your longbow and using crippling arrow barrage on top of your self…

I guess a simple strategy like that is way too hard, its a lot easier just to nerf a class you can’t beat with your face roll shortbow.

I wish they would make better looking “daggers”…

I’m tired of toys and hunting knives and rambo knives and butcher knives…

Hey, if the thief had other good traits and abilities I bet the class would be much better.
Currently the thief has 2 viable weapons.
D/D
Short Bow.

I’m ready for this feature… send in the patches!!

The best thief post to date!

Looks like you were also fighting a warrior, maybe he shouted you so you take 10% more damage, and then buffed the thieves critical chance by 20%.

It also looks like you were hit by a hammer, with a proper trait you can make attacks do an additional 25% more damage to you when your immobilized by a hammer.

So, just maybe you were debuffed by 35%? Maybe you were not, but because it was not 1v1, I can’t tell.

15k HP, means at 3750 HP, Conditions no longer affect you (nolonger affected by poisons -33% Healing.) , your heals do more, your tougher so your defenses mean more, your stacking protection AND regeneration which means you seem harder to kill, the thief will see your health go down thinking your an easy target, then you use F1/6 and heal back up to full and continue burning him, use your turret to immobilize him and then watch him burn.

Having a huge HP Pool over having toughness+protection isn’t a very good choice.

1/3 the damage, plus 33% damage reduction MAGNIFIES the amount of hits you will take, also you do have healing abilities, you can even trait to under 25% health you stun break and get to run away in the toughness tree.

Also.. regeneration on top of that is just … kitten… I would roll an engineer in a heartbeat if they ever made the rabid set craftable.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Yes i have too the 33% protection when i get cc-ed
Still i died in 1.25 sec :P

Yeah… you said “glass cannon engineer”, which means you need better stats, engineers are the worst class to spec for glass cannon, Protection and Toughness work together like bread and butter, the toughness stacked onto protection magnifies the damage you absorb.

Try Rabid, Spec for Stims and Vitality and Ignore conditions when your health is below 25%, 20% stim reduction, then go for toughness.

Then go for condition damage for stats, get runes of the earth and then the rune “balthazar” thats an extra 15% flame duration, your ‘1’ skill does 1000 damage alone (fire damage.).

Then you get pistol/pistol, poison/flame/bleed, then switch to flamer and keep burning.

Ignore Power, Focus on Condition Damage/Toughness, Precision is ok.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

So Daecollo if an Engineer with 22k hp condition glass cannon needs 10 sec to kill a thief , while the thief needs 2 sec to kill the engineer , everything is balanced in ur eyes ?

Plz dont tell me that the thief will be kited , cause dancing blade + shortbow as the other weapon choise , doesnt work :P
We dont whine about less skilled Thiefs , but the few that shown us the true horor with the Backstab spec :P

Engineer is honestly one of the hardest class in the game for a thief to kill.

2500 toughness, flamethrower (constant fire, ignoring stealth.), 33% protection forever with the right runes/builds, heals that cure conditions, 2 healing abilities?

I can only hit them for 5k whilst I hit everyone else for 10k.

Turrets that SNARE/ROOT us so we can’t move while we are constantly being burned with low HP…

I never lost to a thief once as an engineer in SPVP, I simply geared for survivability and condition damage and used a flamer, spamming flames around until I hit the target, then used my turrets to track where the thief is (did you know the turrets moved to the thief, even in stealth?)

Wait.. Glass Cannon..Engineer?… Your playing the wrong class.

D/D has horrible DPS, DPS is Damage Per Second, D/D has “High Burst Damage” but horrible damage per second.

In 10 seconds D/D can dish or more damage then any other weapon slot in the game.
Over 30 minute fight, a NECROMANCER almost doubles the damage we do, a warrior almost does 4 times as much damage, this is why thieves are so horrible in PVE.

The sword 15% critical chance would help thieves with there lack of fury buffs other classes get, to help the thieves average DPS in PVE, since we have very poor DPS but high burst damage, we honestly need the critical chance to balance out the damage, or sword skills need to add some fury.

The idea is to help Swords and Pistols without helping daggers.

The problem with swords is they don’t critical enough for one, daggers critical and bring more things to the table like poison/endurance gain, swords are mostly damaging abilities, but they have the same critical? Swords should get a critical advantage over daggers automatically, but you can’t really do this without changing traits around.

Don’t fix yourselves, fix the class that beats you.

Honestly, lower thief burst, but raise average DPS by double what it is, thieves do horrible DPS over time compared to other classes, they just have High Burst. ((we are the worst class in PVE atm, due to being unable to help our allies and having worse damage over time then a necromancer, in a 30 minute fight our damage is POOP compared to every other class due to initiative and how it works.))

Pistol and Most Sword Skills are broken and worthless.
Nobody uses Traps because they are worthless.
Nobody uses Venom because they are worthless.
Half of Thieves abilitys are worthless, and only the backstab ones really shine because really, Dagger Dagger Shortbow is the ONLY viable build you can really make as a thief.

Also… Learn to play please, thieves do not have any utility besides damage and running away, take away those and you might as well delete the class, they don’t have AOE Healing like other classes, they don’t have high DPS like Warrior, they don’t have High Defenses like Guardian, they have the ability to burst you down and damage you really fast. (punishing new and poor players who have no idea how to trait and rune against burst damage, which IMHO, you should because everyone does it.)

Fix yourselves before you attempt to fix another persons class, and also play against real players, not random pugs you meet in spvp testing a new build.

And please… Every class can survive that burst if they gear themselves correctly, even an elementalist.

Get Runes of Earth, Get Toughness or Vitality, Trait for Stun breakers, THIEVES do it to protect ourselves against each other, why can’t you? ((also, if you go full glass cannon, expect a thief to punish you for it by killing you, that is what we are there for.))

((And please, don’t whine about “HAVING TO GEAR towards Thieves burst!” I gear towards the burst of all classes, not just thieves, if I didn’t have the gear I do, I would die to every burster of every class I see, like Warrior/Mesmer.))

When you go into stealth, your screen changes colors and your hotbar changes slightly so it looks like your melded into shadows.

When you get revealed buff, your screen changes to something like you’ve been found, it brightens back up.

Tsh… this is the only feature i’ve been waiting for for 14 long days…

Not even bothering logging in, too OCD to see ugly characters and a bit let down we didn’t get it the 23rd.