Guild Wars 2

Obsidian.1328:

Stealth isn’t an F1 skill though, Steal is. Stealth is just a normal thief utility skill(with traits) that is used so much it’s kind of become the hallmark of that class. So something like Reveal wouldn’t be taking away a Thief’s F1 skill.

Steal can also stealth you, so it is a stealth skill.

Well, if Reveal is put into the game, Thieves need the ability to completely “steal” other classes F1 Abilities.

Stealing from a ranger should steal his animal and it should go against the ranger.

Stealing from a necromancer should steal his death shroud, giving the thief an extra health bar while making his daggers shoot projectiles and his other abilities getting cool effects.

Stealing from an Ele should steal his current attunement, for example stealing water makes thieves attacks heal him and cure conditions.

Its not regeneration.

Opportunist: 20% Chance on Critical to Restore 1 Initiative. (1 second CD.)
- Far too random, remove the internal cool-down and make it a 25% chance on any critical hit.

Initial Strike: 7% Chance to Restore 1 Initiative when using ‘1’ Skill.
- Far too random, remove the “1” skill penalty, buff it to 15% chance to gain 1 initiative off any attack. (this will make it about 2 initiative every 10 seconds, making it as good as the other tier 2 traits that restore initiative.)

Unload damage needs boosted by 33%, Rate of Fire on “1” skill needs doubled (to be the same speed as dagger’s 1.), a Trait needs to be added so shots pierce, bounce trait needs increased to 100% or removed.

Pistol Mastery: Increases Pistol Damage by 5% and pistol attacks now pierce.

And its not like your going to kill anyone with it.

xrisomilia.5769:

Well… I’m just describing what i just saw a few mins ago

Probably culling.

Revealed debuff should only be given to “Cloak and Dagger.”

All Other Thief skills should ignore reveal, tbh, it breaks too many traits.

Its not possible to be hidden forever and be in combat.

Panacea.4927:

I’m pretty fine with the dodge swiftness as these 2 seconds and the dodge itself cover enough room. In the end its about to avoid the thief and his CnD so thiefs should work to hit that 6 init combo. The 1/2 sec execution time and 6 init are basicly designed that a thief has to work to hit with it and cant spam it easily.

CnD also has the biggest missrate due to the 1/2 sec execution time and as the dagger autoattack has the same attackrange and arc of CnD. Test it out on a practice dummy and you will notice that they behave the same and only the execution time makes it harder to hit with it.

CnD is fine, it is hard to hit and is expensive but for that you can use it often when you can cover the init costs. It gives you stealth which is a very strong mechanic if you use it proper. Right now you require abit of timing on when to preload CnD and the distance your enemy and you will cover in the next 1/2 second.

And I have no problem to land CnD in WvW, except we have skilllag and my execution time for CnD goes from 1/2 up to 1-2 seconds.

“preload CnD” means using the CnD+Steal or Shadowstep combo, it does not matter what the range is or arc, because steal and other shadow skills always put you in CnD range, so it does not matter what you use.

This I do not think is intended, and skills should NOT be balanced around gap-closer range making them viable.

And a removal of queing all Thief Skills unless you ctrl+alt them to make them que.

Also, Stealth skills should not be usable with the reveal de-buff on. (they should be darkened out until the buff goes away, this adds a cool-down and fixes the weapon/utility skills to only be used when they benefit the thief.

Panacea.4927:

… which isnt about nerfing just the damage of the class.

Since I’m getting sick of all the whines about thieves and fear that Anet will once again nerf the wrong stuff, I would like to suggest another way on fixing the “instagib” of thieves. I would like to hear your opinion about it.

My idea was to give shadowstep (also also ALL other related teleport abilities like blink) a VERY short travel with a little effect you can see if you pay attention. For thieves it would be somekind of black blur which quickly darts to the target, for mesmers a purple blur.
Since shadowstep has now a traveltime, you would be able to dodge every shadowstep and with that even steal, IF you pay attention. It would also allow everyone to counterplay the shadow step. You are a warrior and see a thief in front of you and suddenly he is gone and faintly noticeable black blur approaches you fast? use 100b and hit the thief when he arrives in front of you.

Since the steal-insta-gib combo would be easier to dodge/counter now, a nerf at the dmg of thiefs wouldn’t be needed. Warriors can do even bigger burst in the end with bullrush and 100b, yet all say tis ok as you see him approaching.

Since it would be a “nerf” to a whole mechanic, it wouldnt only hit the thief. Furthermore I would also buff steal abit. First of the faintly noticeable fast traveling black blur should give you a very short invul frame. As steal is now harder to use, it would also be fair to reduce its cooldown and maybe even make whole steal more attractive as it is now.

Lore wise that doesn’t make sense, shadowstep is like traveling into a portal of shadows and out another portal, it shouldn’t have an animation.

Otherwise Portals themselves should have animations.

Panacea.4927:

Get swiftness yourself then and dont rely totally on your 25% signet, use dancing dagger to cripple your target, have 5 points in acrobat and dodge towards your enemy so you cover more ground while beeing in swiftness. I play a thief in WvW myself and I only have problems to apply CnD at enemies who know thiefs and try to dodge it.
CnD should remain a combo which requires somekind of skill and shouldnt turn into a no-brainer.

Thieves do not have access to long duration of swiftness.

The Arc for our auto-attack is almost twice as large as the one cloak and dagger offers, Cloak and Dagger if you look at logs probably has the most miss rate out of any melee attack in the entire game. (even though you say its not, my experiences in PvE/PvP differ, the arc could be wider in pvp then it is in pve.)

Saying I should learn some skill and should not be turned in a no-brainer is a bit harse, many people are experiencing the same problem I am with the skill, this means I and they should all just learn to play better, I see many more skilled players in WvWvW then I do in SPvP, As I said before, in SPvP I have no problem landing a CnD.

I get laughed at when I pistol whip the D/D Elementalist with Protection/2900 Armor and do 1/4 his life pool as he heals back up and continues attacking, he is even faster then I am, so shadowstep does nothing.

The best way to kill D/D Ele is to kill him before he can do anything, if he gets his boons up you lost, you might as well Alt+F4.

Panacea.4927:

Daecollo.9578:

I’ve often used it once, hit and used it again by actident and hit again, revealing myself, because the class has no Cool-downs, it makes it hard to use certain attacks because I often que them up twice.

That is more a personal problem and not one of CnD. The only issue which CnD has is, that you sometimes dont get teh fancy stealth effect on your char and maybe try to hit CnD again, but you still can see the buff on your buffbar.

If you ask me, CnD is fine and there is no problem with it except the 30% dmg nerf in sPvP which was unjustified.

In SPVP there isn’t as much lag as in WvWvW, so its much easier to hit people with it, also people arn’t in roaming builds (build for swiftness/movement speed.) so you travel faster then they do.

in WvWvW, everyone has some kind of swiftness, meaning if they are 10 range out of your attack, it misses, and it misses often because all you need to do to avoid CD is move with 33% movement speed.

Lag also hurts this as well.

In SPvP, I have no problem landing hits, people don’t spec for movement, they either burst or bunker up.

But this game isn’t all about SPvP, an arc increase for a 6 initative attack that you slash at your target is fair.

Panacea.4927:

CnD isnt that hard to hit if you get used to it. I even think it is quite fair that you need to be in kissing range to apply it as it makes restealthing for thiefs harder and enemies have a better chance to evade the stealth.

But to the blinding powder trait (I call it often the “lets kill myself trait”). Either blinding powder needs to go and be replaced with a trait which doesnt affect your gameplay that much, or you need to be able to disable minor traits, or the blinding powder trait should give a special stealth which doesnt unstealth you for 0.6 seconds, even if you attack something.
The trait also can kick in if you do another delayed attack like dancing dagger, a normal pistol/shortbow shot or anything which is channeled. 0.6 seconds should give you some time to either stop the attack, or time for the attack to hit without getting the revealed debuff.
Some may complain that it enables thiefs to do a free backstab, but how likely is it that you suddenly drop below 25% health, notice it right away to pull of a backstab which takes 1/4 sec to be executed anyway? Means you need to notice that blinding powder kicked in after 0.35 seconds and if you make the unrevalable stealth time only 0.5 seconds, it would be 0.25 seconds to notice it to get in a free backstab.

I’ve often used it once, hit and used it again by actident and hit again, revealing myself, because the class has no Cool-downs, it makes it hard to use certain attacks because I often que them up twice.

to be honest it should consume initiative only if it hits, or the arc needs to be raised, its to easy to miss with it atm because the arc is so short…

Shadow Protector, Not effected by boon duration, and if you already have regeneration active, it doesn’t even grant more, no other trait in the game is like this, why Shadow Protector?

Shadow Protector’s Regeneration should go off every time you stealth, and should also be affected by boon duration/regeneration duration.

Bountiful Theft, Not effected by boon duration, its 15 seconds of vigor regardless, it used to be 30 seconds but got nerfed to oblivion.

Vigorous Recovery, Not effected by boon duration, its 10 seconds of vigor regardless.

Anyone else in favor of raising the arc/range?

Rinak.4602:

Plain and simple thieves r Op all they do is stealth hit heal…its so stupid..everyone is starting to play one because they are OP..I play a warrior they stun stealth appear far away and when i hit a key to stun them stealth no affect rincse and reapeat and they heal like crazy so for every time i get one down they heal drastically almost like no CDs on heals. Its almost impossible to kill a thief especially as a warrior and for those of you gonna say learn to play I do know how and My Toughness and armor are over 2k 26kHP and armor 3100 they just have ways to many stealth and immobilize abilities. Their is a reason ALOT of people are complaining about them and why people are making them to play in WvW. The ones who defend Thieves of course are the ones who play them because the idea of having a OP class they have Nerfed annoys them cause they like the ease of killing ppl in WvW!

Immobilization?

Sword ‘2’ has it, but it costs a lot, theres also a venom that has it, but it has a long CD.

People with Invulnerability should not be able to interact with objects.

Problem Solved.

Kitono.9152:

Particularly with this ability because it includes a melee attack. I find that 25% health stealth gets broken because I had been channeling cloak and dagger. So let’s make cloak and dagger hit but not renew stealth if you are currently stealthed.

Or Raise the Area it hits from \ / to \____/ (regular autoattacks.), or raise the range from 130 to 170.

It seems to have a 40% Miss Rate…. it never hits unless the target is RIGHT infront of you…

It not like you couldn’t change it into a tier 2 trait, and move the -20% Venom Duration to a Tier 1 Trait.

Venom Thief should be group utility.
10 seconds of Fury/Might/Swiftness to the Thief.
5 seconds of Fury/Might/Swiftness to the Thief’s Allies.

OOOR.. Thrill of the Crime could be buffed to be 30 seconds of Swiftness/Fury/Might.

OOOR.. Thrill of the Crime could be buffed to be 30 seconds of Swiftness/Fury/Might.We need more Fury/Swiftness some how…

typingofthedead.5614:

Daecollo.9578:

typingofthedead.5614:

NightyNight.1823:

@typingofthedead its called getting owned.You’ll have to accept that some people are just better than you because I play berserker elementalist too and I don’t have those problems that you’re talking about.

hahah kitten that thats a lazy response bro. so what, do u have 0 latency and super human reaction time? im not exxagerating when i say twice in 1 match the SECOND i heard the thief weapon sound (before i could even see him), i went for mist form (which is bound to my mid mouse button and muscle memoried), and twice i was dead before i could use that SINGLE SKILL. with full health.

so i dont doubt he was a good thief. and sure, the first time i didnt know he was around. i could for instance preemptively put on protection (tho its not huge duration), or preemptively dodge, but its all just a guess. if i switch to soldiers i have 0 probs with the same thief (able to react, take the burst, aoe when hes out of initiative, etc). but if you’re so good, please, tell me, as a berzerker ele, how u manage to live that out of stealth burst that can drop me before i can move my finger slightly right and press a button

Your first mistake was wearing berserker’s as an ele.

Get Valkyrie Jewelry, Mix it with Soldiers Armor with Valkyrie Orbs in them.

Get 100% chance to critical when switching attunements (weapons.) sigils, and the other one dealing poison or stealing life when switching.

Precision is useless on an Ele, you can switch attunements so much for 100% Criticals its not funny, Stack Toughness/Vitality/Healing/Power, Bunker it up brotha.

hahah i mean, i know i can bunker/balanced build it up, sure, and it works fine. but as long as im not facing a glass thief, berzerker is fine too. i can survive just fine while layin down a ton of hurt thru active defense and running away. my problem is that the thief hard counters pretty much every other offensive build from any class with little downside. which means the meta is to run a thief in your group for offense, and make every other class go defensive

edit: i am speaking pretty much exclusively for spvp or tpvp, where the gear choices are limited, and its much harder to stack just a lil toughness without going to far in at the cost of other things

Well my thief has no chance in killing a good ele, Burst, half life, full heal, he wins. (I pretty much have to run away or get stomped.)

Today I saw 4 Elementalist stop an entire zerg and kill several people with AOE damage, I wish my Thief had some good non-slow AOE damage.

typingofthedead.5614:

NightyNight.1823:

@typingofthedead its called getting owned.You’ll have to accept that some people are just better than you because I play berserker elementalist too and I don’t have those problems that you’re talking about.

hahah kitten that thats a lazy response bro. so what, do u have 0 latency and super human reaction time? im not exxagerating when i say twice in 1 match the SECOND i heard the thief weapon sound (before i could even see him), i went for mist form (which is bound to my mid mouse button and muscle memoried), and twice i was dead before i could use that SINGLE SKILL. with full health.

so i dont doubt he was a good thief. and sure, the first time i didnt know he was around. i could for instance preemptively put on protection (tho its not huge duration), or preemptively dodge, but its all just a guess. if i switch to soldiers i have 0 probs with the same thief (able to react, take the burst, aoe when hes out of initiative, etc). but if you’re so good, please, tell me, as a berzerker ele, how u manage to live that out of stealth burst that can drop me before i can move my finger slightly right and press a button

Your first mistake was wearing berserker’s as an ele.

Get Valkyrie Jewelry, Mix it with Soldiers Armor with Valkyrie Orbs in them.

Get 100% chance to critical when switching attunements (weapons.) sigils, and the other one dealing poison or stealing life when switching.

Precision is useless on an Ele, you can switch attunements so much for 100% Criticals its not funny, Stack Toughness/Vitality/Healing/Power, Bunker it up brotha.

typingofthedead.5614:

Daecollo: that IS the problem. the mere presence of a thief more or less forces the opposition to have to stack toughness/defense to have a shot. any build that requires active defense becomes kitten, since u can’t see the thief coming, and then he can burst u down before u have a chance to pop a single skill. even if that skill is the perfect one for the situation (stun break, invuln), whats the point if u do not have enough time to hit it between realizing the thief is on you and going down.

this is both frustrating, and makes it hard/impossible to run an offensive build on another class since the thief trumps it. so i have to run a less fun and less group optimal tanky build to deal with the thief.

so any offensive build i run is hard countered by thief, which takes me out of the game. or i can run a defensive build that takes the thief out of the game. there’s no middle ground it seems, and each build type is ruining the others fun

Well a lot of our traits and utility is terrible, we have little access to buffs and boons, and we have the highest burst in the game, little HP, we have very little choice then to kill them before they kill us. If we can’t kill them (bunkers/people who trait for protection when they get hit big.) we HAVE to run away, our DPS goes from awesome to suck, why? because of our traits…

We have VERY VERY VERY little passive buffs, did you see the traits we have? most of them are horrible compared to even RANGER and Necromancer, we mainly take traits for stats.

Shadow Arts is the only interesting tree we have.

How many Thieves do you see using Venoms? None.
How many Thieves do you see using two Pistols? None.
How many Thieves do you see using Traps? None.
How many Sword/Dagger, Sword/Pistol Thieves do you see? Barely any, both do poor damage, there are no traits that improve sword critical chance like 3 OTHER classes.
Most of our boons last 10 seconds, and have HUGE cooldowns to boot…
Gain Fury for 10 seconds every 45 seconds? … how is that fair when other classes can get perma fury?
Gain Swiftness for 10 seconds when you steal? (45 second cd.) how is that fair? other classes get perma swiftness…

The problem with thieves is burst is all we got, and it simply makes everyone use bunker builds, and we have no way to kill good bunkers, Bunker Eles/Guardians are almost impossible to kill…

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcom0M9cMGgoMoMgoM0xfp0ozacos08khT707khT707khT70z7kNf70z7kNh70z7kGl70z7ofD70m

With 15%+15+20%+25% (75% Protection Duration.), And Pets getting the boons you do, Every time you dodge, you get 3.5 seconds of protection while your pet gets 7 seconds, every time you dodge.

You have plenty of Critical Bonus if you go Full Berserker, plenty of Health and Plenty of Protection as well, when you get disabled your pet can take the hit for you (with Protection as well.)

The build offers a lot of defense and offense, and with short bow you can maintain perma swiftness. (Rampage as one + Quick Shot.)

Quick Shots Swiftness = 5 seconds. (55% Boon Duration.)
Rampage as One Lasts = 47 seconds. (55% Boon Duration.)

You could also replace Runes of the Earth with Divinity as well, 4% Extra Critical Damage, 20 to all Stats for a more balanced build.

The goal is to simply counter Burst Builds, with the extra dodging there isn’t a way for them to kill you fast enough before you kill them, they will have to run away.

If they add a reveal “mechanic” Thieves need there base health bumped from 10580 to 18580 like warriors/necromancers, they already have little access to healing abilities.

I don’t think one class should have an ability that negates the abilities of another class.

Rangers are a very good class, they have way better traits then thieves do and access to more then one kind of playstyle.

How about change it to “Shadow Refuge” instead of Blinding Powder and “Ignores Revealed”.

STRanger.5120:

What exactly would you like to use this for? :-)

I dunno, could be useful in some thief traits and improving duration on some of them.

Its kind of like Stealth, except you can still see the thief, he is just mirrored in the background, and you can’t target him, but you can still see him.

This boon is affected by “Boon Duration” and all stealth traits, but its a weaker form of stealth.

When your hiding you are harder to see, but you can still be heard walking and you can still be seen. (kind of like predator, you just mirror the background.)

Honestly, if ‘2’ wasn’t Stealth but a new ability like “Hidden”, which gave stealth boons but didn’t really cloak you, it simply mirrored you. (They can still see you if they are looking at you, but your mirrored so harder to see.)

Venomous Aura has a cap of 5 targets. (This includes yourself as well!)

Giving 5 people (who have to be standing very much on top of you.) Fury/Swiftness/1 Stack of Might is not overpowered.

The Thief has to sacrifice stealth (Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder…)
The Thief has to sacrifice Mug (The ability to do a lot of damage when stealing.)
The Thief has to sacrifice the Initative Trait to add extra initative in Trickery.
The Thief has to sacrifice his stun breakers and ability to run away. (Shadowstep.)
The Thief has to sacrifice half his damage. (30 Precision.) (Otherwise he could not get the buff in the first place, you need so many points in other things to make it work…)

To give 5 people, all of which have to be standing near you so its more like 2-3 in a real situation.

10 Seconds of Fury/Might/Swiftness, per venom used.

This means the Thief also has to sacrifice UTILITY slots. (which means no crazy stealthing, getting away, initative regeneration, damage buffs.)

You say its overpowered, but the Thief has to sacrifice pretty much “BEING A THIEF” to get the traits to make it last forever.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mck9ooMhwooMxwoG0xG0mRmsbos

20% Boon Duration (36 Seconds when you use all 3 Venoms.)
-20% Venom Duration. (So Recast is 36 Seconds.)
Trait that does it in the first place.

With all the things the thief HAS to sacrifice, HOW is this overpowered? Hes not going to be backstabbing people down, hes not even going to be doing that much damage.

I don’t like the backstab combo, I want more PASSIVE (non-bursty DPS) this means more boons like FURY.

I want to NOT rely so much on SoS, that means more boons like swiftness.

MORE Boons and group buffs, currently we have none.

No comments on this?

Could be pushed down to 8 seconds.

I really hate the CnD / Backstab Mug Steal Combo, but now that people are actually building bunker we can’t really kill anyone, once we get our stuff down we lost, because we can’t really get away that easilly.

We don’t have access to any other builds… we don’t have any group utility or boons like other classes get.

So basicly we all spec the same.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mck9oovRloovRlo0xGG0ocbVaos

Pretty much permastealth.

It would be a balanced spec if Stealth was like Predator’s Stealth where you could still see the thief moving around, just like a mirror.

Cool idea, except you can lower the stealth skills initative cost from 4 to 1 initative using stealth traits, and since it actually stealths its guarenteed.

15k HP is base for Mesmer, you have no vitality, and it looks like you don’t have very much toughness either.

Good Luck.

We need more access to Fury/Swiftness… :/

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Unload 6 second cool-down. Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder -10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom -* 6 second cool-down*. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger -* 8 second cool-down.* (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger -10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Forget cooldowns.

And about unload doing 150% more damage…. have you gone mad ? i mean rly… It now does 6k or so damage on glass cannon if it hits whole and you are speced as glass too.

It would do 15k on glass cannons w/o stacks of might blodlust stacks and stuff. With all that could be 20k damage from 1 skill… a ranged non rooting Hundred blades.

Yeah right…

UNLOAD DOES 4k Damage against bunkers and is a slow channal, very easy to avoid. – And costs “5”, FIVE initiative. (because it fires 8 times for 199 damage, this means if the enemy has toughness/protection it contests against every shot and makes each shot do very little.

My Sword Autoattack Chain does 6500 damage if I hit with it, and Unload does not even give the thief evasion.

Unload is very slow and channals and snares the thief, and offers no evasion and is easilly dodged, you also can’t run away while you use it because if you turn around it cancels unload.

It does 199 on paper. When might stacks + dmg traits, critical rate + critical damage comes to mind each hit goes around 350 damage-750+ critical on power precision.(Average hit does 600 if i take 50% critical rate(runes of divinity). and 62% crit damage)

600 hiting 8 times does basicly 5k damage, on Spvp not minding WvW where stats can be much highter. And thats if you take runes of divinity not the best damage runes.

5k*(100% +150% that you propose) is 12500 damage… Withouth might stacks, fury, stacks of Bloodlust.
You can haste it to cast it in 1.5 seconds. You want ranged Hundred blades equivalent skill. Which thiefs thanks to innitiative mechanic(which is well though) could spam and you want support ?

In WvW doing 20k with best gear foods with 114% crit dmg and so on. Oh 1 skill 1 dead , lets cast it on another now.

This was all if you added cool-downs to thief skills like the topic said:

Hundred Blades roots you and is an AOE attack, has 6 second cooldown if traited for it, and grants might on each critical hit, and has a very high chance (80-90%) to critical due to many traits warrior has, the warrior also has heavy armor.

Unload snares you for 50% and is NOT an aoe attack, would have an 8 second cool-down and a much lower chance to critical (60%.), the thief also has medium armor and pistol/pistol thief has little to no access to stealth.
Both attacks break channel if you try to move around too much.

Unload has 900 range, but is not an AOE attack, and the user has less armor and almost no stealth, because you pretty much need traits like (25% movement speed and Shadow-Step.) You also pretty much need +90 Precision Signet so it criticals.

Your also ignoring the other things greatsword offers, the spin move is an aoe attack that offers movement breaks and allows you to move quickly, warriors also have perma swiftness with traits and SoR, which also gives them base fury, Thieves have little to no access to fury.

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Unload 6 second cool-down. Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder -10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom -* 6 second cool-down*. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger -* 8 second cool-down.* (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger -10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Forget cooldowns.

And about unload doing 150% more damage…. have you gone mad ? i mean rly… It now does 6k or so damage on glass cannon if it hits whole and you are speced as glass too.

It would do 15k on glass cannons w/o stacks of might blodlust stacks and stuff. With all that could be 20k damage from 1 skill… a ranged non rooting Hundred blades.

Yeah right…

UNLOAD DOES 3-4k Damage against bunkers and is a slow channal, very easy to avoid. – And costs “5”, FIVE initiative. (because it fires 8 times for 199 damage, this means if the enemy has toughness/protection it contests against every shot and makes each shot do very little.

My Sword Autoattack Chain does 6500 damage if I hit with it, and Unload does not even give the thief evasion.

Unload is very slow and channals and snares the thief, and offers no evasion and is easilly dodged, you also can’t run away while you use it because if you turn around it cancels unload.

Pistols do not pierce and are not AOE attacks, Unload isn’t an AOE Attack nore does it pierce like rifle, it should atleast do MORE damage then Volley (Rifle), and Volley can be traited to pierce (be an AOE attack.) and has 1200 range!

Also, Thiefs do not have nearly the traits dedicated to pistols as rifle has, pistol attacks do not pierce, and only have 900 range and do very low damage compared to rifle shots, that means toughness/protection boons contest against them harder since its lots of tiny shots instead of bigger shots, Warriors have heavy armor and more traits dedicated to make Rifle Shots Critical More/Bleed More/Do More Damage.

Remember, Pistol/Pistol has no access to stealth besides Utility, and that Utility has to be used for movement speed (signet of shadows.) and getting away (shadowstep), that leaves room for little to no stealth.

Hundred Blades roots you and is an AOE attack, has 6 second cooldown if traited for it, and grants might on each critical hit, and has a very high chance (80-90%) to critical due to many traits warrior has, the warrior also has heavy armor.

Unload snares you for 50% and is NOT an aoe attack, would have an 8 second cooldown and a much lower chance to critical (60%.), the thief also has medium armor and pistol/pistol thief has little to no access to stealth.

Both attacks break channal if you try to move around too much.

Unload has 900 range, but is not an aoe attack, and the user has less armor.

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Body Shot – 2 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 150%.) [Finally its useful!]
Unload – 6 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder – 10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom – 6 second cool-down. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger – 8 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger – 10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Short Bow:
Trick Shot – No Cooldown – (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Cluster Bomb – 2 second cool-down. (Increase damage and bleed duration by 15%.)
Disabling Shot – 6 second cool-down. (increase power damage by 150%.)
Choking Gas – 8 second cool-down. (Increase poison duration by 25%.)
Infiltrator’s Arrow – 10 second cool-down. (Increase range to 1200.)
Suprise Shot – Increase range to 1500, increase damage to that of kill-shot, remove immobilize.

Venomous Strength:
When applied, venoms grant 2 stacks of might for 20 seconds.

Change to:

When applied, venoms grant might, fury, swiftness for 10 seconds.

This allows Venom’s to be useful to everyone in your group if heavilly traited into, and offer thieves more offensive boons, currently our “Boon Duration” barely does anything and we rely too much on stealth.

I also suggest moving Venomous Aura out of the Toughness Tree and into the Vitality Tree, It seems more like a boon thing with all the buffs around boons to it, and stealth thieves don’t need anymore help.

Trade: Fleet Shadow (33% Movement Speed in Stealth.) in Acrobatics Tree for Venomous Aura. (its kind of silly that a stealth trait is in the acrobatics tree when its mostly a stealth trait, acrobatics thieves do not have a lot of stealth. (of course bump it up to a tier 3 trait, tier 1 venomous aura would be overpowered.)

This would give us a lot of room for more builds then just backstab builds and allow us a more passive DPS tree, and offers us group utility as well, this also means you couldn’t take mug because you need -20% venom reduction to keep the buffs going.

This would allow a 20/0/0/30/0 (20 points left to spend.) a viable option.

Elloni.2473:

Issues with the thief class

- perma evade underwater
- the restealth debuff neededs to be longer (+2 more seconds)
- Heartseeker covers too much ground
- Heartseeker should do less damage after multiple uses
- The damage on steal is too high
- Auto attack damage is too high on dagger and shortbow (why does a thief do more damage than a ranger with a shortbow if they are both specced for damage?)
- Quickness should be removed from the thief class

• Stomp unstealth the thief*

The thief is all reward with little risk. The stealth mechanic makes good players nearly impossible to hit so the thief, unlike other classes, can spec pure damage and safe.

It should be no surprise that the two classes most complained about in PvP are the two classes that can shake targeting. When considering the damage on a class the ability of their opponent to do damage back should be considered. Given that stealth is so easy to achieve in this game the damage available to the thief reflect that fact (i.e. high defense = lower damage).

If those nerfs happen, thieves HP should be buffed from 10k to 18k base like warriors/necromancers, they do not have nearly the bunker builds other classes do, and every class I see in WvWvW is now Bunker Ele/Guardian, Thieves need more utility and boons like other classes to survive, already I can see many people learning the shannanigans and just using there brain and getting around stealth and our mobility.

Venomous Strength:
Applies 10 seconds of Might, Fury, Swiftness when you use a venom.

This allows Venoms to be utility and group utility and actually makes our “boon duration” mean something.

Many people arn’t logging on because of things like makeover kits.

Maybe if they werent RAINBOW colored and all greatswords and lightsabers and more incentive for dual wielding classes..

noir.6392:

Who in their right minds doesn’t want their character to get more powerful? So what, you have to farm a little for better gear, big whoop. It’s not like you have a lot to do after finishing most of the content. And the gear upgrade comes naturally by exploring the new content. As long as it’s not a few months grind like in other popular titles, I don’t see the problem.
A few days of playing for better gear and stronger character triggers 124 pages of complains? You people are sad. Especially given that the ring will drop/be obtainable by simply exploring the new dungeon..I’m missing the logic in all the arguments.
I have followed everything that ANet said about the game prior to it’s release and I don’t remember ever seeing anything about there not being any kind of character progression in the following years.
If that is the case and my characters stay the same for the entire life of the game, with all my love for GW I will drop it in a couple of months. I truly hope there will be more of a gear progression than this, , given that exotic gear is a joke to get.
Stop patting just the casuals on the head, give something for the more hardcore players too.
And can you actually say that you even need exotic gear to enjoy the content of the game? Hell, you can do all the dungeons and PVE in green gear just fine.
I don’t know when people have turn into big whiners.
It bothers me too that they promised that there will be no grinding and most of the game is grinding. But it doesn’t bother me because of the grind itself. I had the pleasure to grind for a legendary and I can say it was 99% a huge grind. No, it bothers me that they lied about it, that they didn’t live up to their promises.

But better gear? Hell yea.

I would rather have more traits, more fixes, runes to add to your character to make you stronger, ANYTHING but gear.

Why do we need a new set of gear? Just add a new set of armor with a new slot that ONLY affects new dungeons.

Or add new gear you can get in WvWvW.