so you are saying you are constantly dishing out 21k per second? i highly doubt that…
Umm…no one is saying that.
What is provided is a theoretical potential DPS.
I really hope they disable things like toy axes in raids if they’re going to give players an advantage…
@ rev vs thief: Thief may not have the low cd on their 1,200 shadowstep, but in addition to not needing a target, they can then spam a 900 range port with short bow after that in addition to using other movement abilities like dash and withdraw.
If there is a target, then you get inf signet, and inf strike on top of the above. If you can deal with hitting the target, you get steal too.
Thief still wins, hands down.
(edited by Dahkeus.8243)
I’ve found myself running into serious problems justifying Scrapper in PVE- at least as a damage dealer. It just doesn’t seem to synergize well with the rest of the talents available for damage… at least when using a hammer.
Well, it still does the highest damage of any power spec, even if you can’t tie in hammer to a lot of traits.
Have there been any legitimate Stronghold tournaments anywhere yet? Are there any in the plans?
It looks like ESL is still completely devoted to conquest.
It still looks like real gold to me. I think it just doesn’t match your character since your char is glowing yellow…
Should work nicely with sneak gyro too
Hmm…sounds like it would cause reveal.
Even if it doesn’t, I still think you’re better off with Hoelbrak since burning does so much more damage than other condis. That’s also why I wouldn’t drop FT for a condi build like this.
Hoelbrak with flamethrower…. then points out burning and down puts condi. All in the same small paragraph. So much contradict, such a small place.
Btw krait does significantly reduced damage, for 3s. The proc CD is 9s. I like krait, but it has adds no survivability and the dmg output is not high enough to offset.
Expertise does increase my durations, which is useless vs. cleanse classes, but nice against thief, DH, warrior. It has brought 2v1 into a different light as my condi are still procing when I go down. Definitely gotten the better of some downed spam 1 duels after my condi’s all tick another 4s when I’m down.
The ‘burstiness’ this build can induce into condi with rabid amulet makes using rabid very viable. The difference is 5% crit on wanderer’s. Only reason I use or mention it.
Sorry, I meant Balthazar. Got my runes confused for a sec there.
Nope. Best purchase I’ve made all year.
Awesome, thanks for modelling this out!
I’d actually just like to get some weird in-game toy, kinda like the birthday blaster. =)
Yup, you’ll want both, but if you only want FT for the fire field and flame blast.
Should work nicely with sneak gyro too
Hmm…sounds like it would cause reveal.
Even if it doesn’t, I still think you’re better off with Balthazar runes since burning does so much more damage than other condis. That’s also why I wouldn’t drop FT for a condi build like this.
edit to correct I mistyped Hoelbrak runes when I meant Balthazar.
(edited by Dahkeus.8243)
Let’s actually be real for a minute. It doesn’t matter what classes you bring as long add each build is solid and relatively optimized. There is absolutely no need for"engi over thief" unless your speed clearing. Get the needed roles filled and have everyone know what they need to do, you’ll be fine.
High DPS isn’t just about speed clearing. It means you can kill a boss before an enrage timer with less people focused on pure dps. It also means the boss has less of a chance to kill someone when it doesn’t stay alive as long.
#GHsoShinyIcantSeeyourredrings
Why do we bother coming to this cesspool of a forum. It’s not like anybody ever listens to reasonable queries.
You can actually trace back most major changes to forum feedback…
Trace them for me, please. Then maybe we can see how few changes have actually come in response to player feedback. Sure there have been a few, but let’s be real here…
Really?
- Hero point requirement for Elites reduced
– DH trap damage reduced
– Berserker buffed
– Actually…pretty much every change made to all elites since beta
Going to stop here because it’d be easier to try and count changes that weren’t from forum feedback. If you need more examples, just look at the past patch notes. Most of that is all tracked back to what people talk about here.
#GHsoShinyIcantSeeyourredrings
Why do we bother coming to this cesspool of a forum. It’s not like anybody ever listens to reasonable queries.
You can actually trace back most major changes to forum feedback…
We simply don’t know yet, we only saw the first encounter of the first raid wing. To early to talk about meta comps imo.
^ This.
From a pure, theoretical output perspective, it’s not looking good for thieves, but there may be a special type of encounter where a thief could shine.
For example, if you need to move an item from one place to another (similar to the light orb in that one path of Arah). If that’s the case, then a shadow stepping thief may allow the task to be completed by 1 person when otherwise it would take 2 or would simply take longer.
Alternatively, maybe someone needs to stand somewhere that’s full of damage that can only be evaded. A thief could spam more evades than any other class and be the MVP for that scenario.
I’m not holding my breath on this, but it’s possible.
There also may be changes from a balance patch before raids land which pushes thief ahead in some other way.
I think the original point that gyros are ‘functionally’ useless would be more correct if it stated that they are ‘relatively’ useless.
I think this applies to PvP as well, but overall, while these gyros do function at a decent level on their own, there’s just better options for those functions.
This is why you see so many people defending these gyros. Because you can use these gyros and function to a valid point and they may even work very well in certain situations/builds, but when it comes to making the most effective and efficient build possible for PvE or any other serious objective in the game, gyros just don’t fit in.
…but of course, Sneak Gyro is the one exception. =P
Yea, I posted a similar build a few days back.
I think that cele meta scrapper is still king for conquest, but in Stronghold where your output (damage or external support) matters more than personal sustain, P/P condi can really shine.
the best scrapper build for fractals is to run base engi instead except for the rare instances where sneak is good.
For Condi engi? Yes. For power? That’s debatable.
barely… imo it comes down to: if you have reliable ooc permaswiftness from others, the damage is the same ish. if you need your own, play base engi. if you have a ps warrior (or thief in certain cases), feel free to waste blasts on swiftness.
OOC permaswiftness is meaningless in fractals. At most you need a bit of swiftness to move from one fight to the next, which is often provided by a party member, but can easily be granted by a lightning field + blast.
And I really don’t see how there’s a ‘waste’ of a blast on a lightning field. If you’re blasting a field for swiftness to get somewhere, the cooldown will pretty much be available by the time you get there.
What you DO gain from scrapper in Fractals, however, is an additional small reflect, a block, and a ranged rez. None of these are critical, game-changing bonuses, but they do help and they’re not coming at the loss of anything critical from your normal meta power build.
not gonna lie, ive been jaded by bad / nonspeedrun groups, and scrapper gives up either damage or utility just to access unnecessary things that you dont need or your group does better anyways, even as baddies.
with a static group, you can pretty much run whatever you want anyways and no one will get mad at you if its even a notch above viable because you more than likely have the necessary roles covered (such as reflects, stealth, and offensive support). when you end up pugging at least a couple slots… well, anything goes. and building for that so that your group can do 75-95% of optimal dps regardless of your partys baddies is something i highly recommend, and scrapper does not fit that bill.
Except it’s not really a damage loss. There’s a 10% loss from tools that you only get at full endurance, but you gain 3 hammer skills that deal more damage over rifle. Also since you can spend more time using high dps hammer skills over rifle skills, you don’t spend as much time filling your rotation with grenade AA.
So even if you’re convinced that only “baddies” will ever need to revive a player, there’s still reason to go scrapper over base engi in 1337 cool guy groups.
(that being said, if you’re focused on being meta cool guys, you’ll want a sinister/viper engi over power anyways)
Rocket Boots with Gadgeteer is really fun, but there’s just very little practical reason to ever go with rocket boots, let alone gadgeteer.
I completely disagree. It is great for being a solid scaling direct damage and burn with rocket kick, a mobility aid, and most of all, a blast finisher. It is also great for getting you out of trouble in a hot spot.
Oh, sure, it sounds nice when you describe it on it’s own, but it just doesn’t fit in any legitimate build. Elixir gun will cover the blast finisher and mobility while also giving you a stunbreak, poison cleave, condition removal, and amazing synergy with HGH.
Pretty much any time you’d want to take rocket boots, you’d be better off taking Elixir Gun instead.
Well, it’s probably because all the feedback they got during the betas was all about how underwhelming they were.
ANet listened and boosted the class.
boosting the power of an elite spec when people didn’t like its concept is… not the way to go.
People didn’t just complain about it’s concept though.
A) Engineers don’t need a unique, viable group buff. We already have the highest dps build in the game an can fill just about any role due to our versatility. There’s already almost no reason to ever take a thief if you have an engi in the party.
B) I don’t really see this as an issue.
C) The problem with camping FT is that you drastically reduce your personal DPS with the AA. Currently, this isn’t an issue in open world since you can stack so much might that you can offset this loss, whereas you’d already have this might in a group. If you made this change, then you’d be doing an inferior job of a Phalanx Strength war, who can stack more might with less of a personal DPS loss.
D) See point A.
Something like this is what a necro would need much, much more than engi.
Agreed with Arantheal, but I would make a small correction on gearing.
Since HoT came out, we got access to Viper’s stats, which have been found to be better than Sinister stats. The bright side of this is that while you will still need to do all the Living Story stuff for the Sinister trinkets (except there’s still no sinister back piece, you’ll go with Rampagers/Rabid/Celestial here), you’ll now want Viper’s stats for armor. This means you won’t need to farm Silverwastes for the Sinister recipes.
The down side is that you will have to spend a bit of time in Auric Basin since the currency from the rewards in this zone is used to buy the Viper’s inscription/insignia. However, personally, I find doing new HoT content more fun than (shudder) Silverwastes farming…
I don’t think that we need more traits for gadgets as much as gadgets just need to be better (except for Slick Shoes).
Rocket Boots with Gadgeteer is really fun, but there’s just very little practical reason to ever go with rocket boots, let alone gadgeteer.
Reapers are in pretty great shape for Stronghold. They have a good mix of damage and sustain, good access to stability, good CC, and beastly cleave.
I honestly find them the hardest opponent to go against, but that’s also partially because they’re a decent counter to the build I run.
Well, it’s probably because all the feedback they got during the betas was all about how underwhelming they were.
ANet listened and boosted the class.
Juggernaut would be great if they just changed it to be a flamethrower specific version of Streamlined Kits, except instead of swiftness it would give several stacks of might and stability for a certain time. Something like 5 stacks of might and 3 stacks of stability for 10 or 20 seconds when you swap to flamethrower with a 10 or 20 second cooldown. There would actually be a reason to take it over Modified Ammunition in builds that don’t rely on the FT for most of their damage, and would also make Mass Momentum a lot more useful as well.
If you did that, it’d kill off the usefulness of Juggernaut as an open world trait, would do nothing for group based PvE (Modified Ammo would still be much, much better), and it would be a small boost to a small minority of PvP builds.
While I’m sure this thread will sink to the bottom soon, I just wanted to toss a quick thanks to the devs for Stronghold. This game mode has really given sPvP the diversity it’s needed for a while and it’s also been a great game mode for providing some close and intense games.
While I don’t think this has shaken up PvP builds as much as I initially hoped (at least not at my MMR level), it has opened the doors for some new builds that I’ve enjoyed. In particular, I’ve been successfully playing a build that would otherwise be mediocre in conquest.
Anyways, thanks again for taking the time to create this game mode. I look forward to seeing the meta that will develop for it at upper tiers of gameplay.
Thieves need buffs, not a lower skill cap.
This would really mostly help thieves that aren’t evading properly in their refuge. Meanwhile, the major problems that thieves have would persist.
Yea, ranger 1h sword is one of the reasons I quit that profession, even though it was my first char.
However, as frustrating and clunky as that mechanic is, it can still work well in PvE current content.
So, I’ve found that this trait is really ideal for open world PvE where the wide arc of the attack is great for hitting a lot of mobs at once and you don’t need to swap out of it like you need to in PvP. The might stacking possibilities also work well solo where you don’t have the supplemental might from a group and won’t waste might stacks very often.
I’ve found that the best synergy with Flamethrower and Juggernaut are the traits HGH and Mass Momentum along with Elixir B. Elixir B is great not only for the extra might through HGH, but also because you can throw the elixir for stability, which allows you to swap kits and do something out of FT without losing your stability/might.
While you swap out, you can use something like Elixir Gun for utility and additional might through HGH. The blast on Acid Bomb can also be used for more might stacking. Alternatively, you can swap to bomb kit and drop Fire and Concussion bomb if you’re running condi stats.
the best scrapper build for fractals is to run base engi instead except for the rare instances where sneak is good.
For Condi engi? Yes. For power? That’s debatable.
barely… imo it comes down to: if you have reliable ooc permaswiftness from others, the damage is the same ish. if you need your own, play base engi. if you have a ps warrior (or thief in certain cases), feel free to waste blasts on swiftness.
OOC permaswiftness is meaningless in fractals. At most you need a bit of swiftness to move from one fight to the next, which is often provided by a party member, but can easily be granted by a lightning field + blast.
And I really don’t see how there’s a ‘waste’ of a blast on a lightning field. If you’re blasting a field for swiftness to get somewhere, the cooldown will pretty much be available by the time you get there.
What you DO gain from scrapper in Fractals, however, is an additional small reflect, a block, and a ranged rez. None of these are critical, game-changing bonuses, but they do help and they’re not coming at the loss of anything critical from your normal meta power build.
the best scrapper build for fractals is to run base engi instead except for the rare instances where sneak is good.
For Condi engi? Yes. For power? That’s debatable.
I guess that one really has a reason to be twitchy…
Hey, Sneak Gyro is legit. I love that thing for skipping mobs and stealth rezzes. Function gyro has saved the day a good few times too.
Outside of that, however, yea, the rest are as useless in PvE as they are in PvP.
Yea, that’s what I ran while building up a condi set. You can pretty much just play exactly like the previous power grenadier meta build, but just use the hammer skills in rotation instead of the rifle ones.
As far as runes go, Scholar with a group that can keep up enough might/fury/etc. on its own is probably ideal, but Eagle is fine.
I’ll have to quote a guy that commented on these skins.
“Oh man, I wish Anet would lose their sense of humor. Why did they have to have fun making these weapon skins? What a waste. Even though I have the option not to buy them, this is just insulting to me. Siiiiiigh.”
Personally I found them funny. While I was watching the skins I chuckled a few times. True that they look like low level mob drops, but I don’t mind.
People did whine how black lion skins look better than legendary weapons, so some balance has been restored now xD
^ Pretty much this. I don’t like the skins either, but that just means I won’t buy them. I don’t see any reason to make any big deal over this though…
Are you honestly surprised by this? This is pretty common for just about anything ever sold anywhere. When it’s new and shiny, people will pay more and once it’s not new and shiny, the price comes down.
Players who paid 1000 gems and bought the item for the short time it was available got to run around with the wings long before the people who are now dropping 700 gems. If that doesn’t justify the cost to you, then in the future, you’ll probably want to wait for something to get older and have a lower cost before spending big.
edit poster above me is correct. I guess they raised the price now that there’s the added functionality of a glider skin. Source:
http://dulfy.net/2015/03/03/gw2-gemstore-updateblack-feathered-wings-and-martial-finisher/
http://dulfy.net/2015/06/23/gw2-white-feather-wings-are-now-available-for-24-hrs/
(edited by Dahkeus.8243)
Honestly, I think ANet could make a world of difference to venoms if they would just add a stunbreak to one of them…
If they did that, then you’d have the base ability to clear conditions (from SA line) and break stun, which is needed for any viable PvP build.
I honestly think it would be pretty awesome if condi thief could help keep thief as competitive in PvE, but I haven’t seen anyone do a serious theorycrafted comparison of a direct damage build vs a condi build for thief.
Also, there are a lot of potential variations for a condi build that make it a bit harder to identify in terms of a min/maxed DPS build as opposed to direct damage, which is pretty straight forward.
Here are a couple of the questions I see in identifying what condi build does the most DPS:
1) If the DA line is taken, do you get more dps from Trapper’s Respite + Deadly Trapper or is it better to go Dagger Training + Panic Strike?
2) Does Lotus Training make the DD line worthwhile? If so, the additional dodge could be great for sustaining survival while also dealing damage. However, the extra dodge doesn’t mean a whole lot if you don’t have traits like in the Acro line to grant vigor. Would this make Sig of Agi worth taking?
3) Which Weaponset is the highest DPS? Would you be better off with D/D for the poison on AA and bleeds on Death Blossom or would P/D be better? If P/D, should ini be spent on Shadow Strike for Torment or on CnD + Sneak Attack?
If anyone knows the answer to these questions, I’d be interested to hear, but I have yet to see any serious theorycrafting on the level of what DnT does with thief condi builds…
Well, between the two, I’d probably say that the HGH build would be better for open world PvE. However, if you’re not too attached to grenades, consider swapping in Flamethrower kit instead and use something more like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThatY1VwdLQ7FL3FF9pH7zO4CGhBg4B9D5AA-T1RBABUcBAuS5HN7Pgp6P5pDAgHAgZKBJFQeKjA-w
You can maintain about 10 stacks of might just by sitting in FT kit and if you toss Elixir B before you swap to EG, you can keep up those stacks while you apply more from the EG elixirs. Because of this, you may even want to go back to healing turret since it’s easy to cap out at 25 stacks of might on this build, especially if you blast the fire field.
In PvP, I’d say that Scrapper is generally better than base engi. I’d even put Scrapper as being best for open world PvE. However, base engi Condi meta seems to be best for Fractals and is looking good for when raids come out.
Aren’t those a part of an event?
Yea, it’s part of a event where bandits raid the bridge.
Sharing a build that I’ve found to work very well with Stronghold. I wouldn’t use this over anything like the meta Celestial EG build, but since that tankiness doesn’t generally make as much of a difference in Stronghold (in my experience), this is what I’m running:
Scrapper Rabid Flamethrower
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqanUUB1ahtbBWXBEqiF2iiO4P+kH8DLxAQsjminA-TJhAABws/AZlBA4BAw9JAAA
This is a heavy condi build that runs very similar to the well known Rabid Flamethrower build found on places like MetaBattle, but it’s adapted to to utilize a few things from the new Scrapper elite spec.
The general strat with this build is to stack might with your elixir B, Super Elixir and Acid Bomb on Elixir Gun, and if you get the chance, from blasting the Flamethrower’s fire field. With might stacked, you can then pop Incendiary Ammo and use Blowtorch on an enemy to melt them incredibly fast. In most realistic scenarios, you won’t be able to perfectly stack everything or course, but you stack as much as you can, when you can.
The reason I took the Scrapper line instead of just using the same Rabid FT build was that you get some really strong defense in the Scrapper line from Adaptive Armor as well as the benefit of Function Gyro.
Sneak Gyro, I’ve found is pretty handy for NPC support, rezzes, etc. If you don’t like this, you can also run Mortar Kit and if zerk warriors ever become something to worry about again, there’s also Elixir X.
Also, if you quit before the trait was added that gave turrets reflect, be sure to check that out. It adds a lot more depth and utility to the use of turrets.
Turrets were never really outstanding anywhere except for a while when they were generally considered a super cheesy way to win in PvP (no offense to you, just reporting the general consensus at the time).
Since then, as said above me, they’ve really received nothing but a buff in the form of reduced damage when not targetted in PvE. In sPvP, they now just don’t survive as well as before since they can be crit and damaged by condis.
I think there’s potential for turrets to be a strong non-cheesy build if they boost the power of the active overcharge skills, but I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.
More than 1 healer is just a stupid idea, it’s like since the release of druid people have legitimately forgotten the 3 years you’ve had to rely on your personal heals and given that there will be multiple engineers if they keep doing this toughness bs that role for the druid is getting knocked further and further down. Spotter for 5 people is good, spotter for 3 people and a chronomancer and a druid is not so good and probably not worth it.
1 chronomancer at most, it will require obscure positioning and given that the first boss we seen required a lot of kiting I can hardly see how a chronomancer will target the people with any sort of precision.
Maybe, just maybe anet will realize this whole diversity thing isn’t going to work out and just give us a way to choose who our buffs are going too. I’m still in denial at this point but if they actually split the pve and pvp balance ele should definitely be put back as the number 1 dps, conjures need to be reworked, cantrips need to be reworked, they even suck in pvp. Like why should the light armour class with 10k hp not be the top dps, if staff isn’t usable because the bosses need to be kited then we are going to see a huge skillfloor as d/f ele will be no joke to play, like playing condi engi just feels dirty at this point it’s so kittening broken and way too easy to play. I haven’t even played with the eles elite spec but I’ll assume warhorn is garbage since nothing can really compete with focus anyway and the one things eles needed was not another kittening offhand.
Two druids doesn’t necessarily mean two healers. You can have one run a more DPS-focused build or both with a hybrid. The point is to get the damage boost for all 10 people.
Wow…that’s sad. =/
Honestly, I think that there’s a lot of potential in Stronghold for GW2 from a spectator’s point of view.
One of the biggest criticisms against people watching GW2 is that the game often looks a lot like a big cluster@#$% of animations. Stronghold not only spreads out action so that it’s not just a dogpile on a capture point, but it also has more diverse objectives that gives viewers something to follow, even when they can’t tell that a player just did something like juked a pin down to force an enemy to blow a defensive cooldown.
There’s a potentially good idea from the OP…but holy crap, just take a breath buddy. You don’t need to start snapping at everyone who criticizes you. Yea, there’s some trolls in here, but if they’re going to get you so rattled that you start snapping at people like Nike who gave perfectly level-headed feedback, then maybe you need to step away and have a good cup of tea or something…
Calm down and talk through some of this and if the community can find value in your responses, there may actually be a meta-changing build from all of this.