Guild Wars 2

Nah, I don’t really see it that way.

Guild halls run at the expense of players. Considering how much gold you can earn in PvE if you sell things like flaxseeds, sand, ectos, quartz, etc. instead of donating them, I think it’s relatively fair.

Failed? Doesn’t seem like it. It hasn’t really been embraced by tournaments, but it seems to be pretty well accepted by a lot of the player base outside of players who simply balk at the presence of any NPC in PvP.

Prophet.1584:

the only thing that concerns me, and we’ll see proof on the 17th, is that if raids are structured like high end fractals (80+) then we’ll see most mobs having very high toughness making power builds and buffs to power very weak. In that case frost spirit and GoE would be less useful but make GoL much stronger. if people where more condi focused it would also make sun spirit and storm spirit better since vuln effects conditions now.

I don’t think that anyone will need to explicitly try to bring anything for the sake of vuln in raids. It’s a very commonplace condition and will likely be easily stacked to 25 with a party of 10 people without anyone trying.

As for Frost Spirit, does anyone know for sure if the 10% bonus damage is only for power-based damage? The wording makes it sound a bit more open to any type of damage.

However, even if it is only power damage, a straight damage boost to 5 people is worth taking even if toughness negated its advantage in half.

Zach,

Definitely appreciate the devil’s advocate. It leads to a much better understanding of the game and ultimately a better build.

Good points, particularly with apothecary stats. but I’ll play the devil’s advocate back and give some counterpoints:

Runes and sigils come at the cost of healing power. If you decide you don’t need the extra healing power from them, then you can equally go for power DPS stats.

For the pulsing stability, I came to a realization after arguing against Spirit of Nature: Granting Stability is actually really helpful for a lot of builds since it stacks an additional boon on players that they may not otherwise have. This means extra damage for eles, wars, heralds, guards and rangers who have their trait that increases damage by 1-2% for each boon on them (these traits seem to be pretty commonly used traits in meta builds). Vigor uptime may also be a bit debatable and the pulse along with vigorous training will make a big impact to this.

As for might, there’s really not much might from this build unless you’re taking warhorn and I’m more of an advocate for a ranged druid, which brings me to the next argument:

If you run a ranged weapon like longbow, you have more freedom to be in position for tagging allies with staff once you switch back. If you’re running axe/torch, you’ll have to constantly be up in melee to maximize damage. Once you swap back to staff, you’ll probably need to run back out of melee to catch your full party with the staff piercing so that you can catch staff eles, engis on nades, etc.

And finally some side speculation: I have a feeling there may be some encouragement to have some ranged players in raids since a full melee raid means people don’t have much room to spread out to avoid raid mechanics. That’s just what my gut says from a history of WoW raiding. =P

Condi vs Power is a valid point, but even if Condi pulls a bit ahead, I’m not sure that it would be worth dropping NM and I would be surprised if it could make a big difference.

Damage boosters of WS:
Expertise Training – for pet DPS
Ambidexterity – for torch DPS or Refined Toxins for self and pet poison (may be debatable since the pet will carry more DPS weight when you’re in healer gear)
Poison Master – The only DPS increasing trait, but without Refined Toxins and a weapon that deals poison, it may not do much.

Damage Boosters of NM:
Bountiful Hunter – Effectively a 9% flat boost for self and pet
Fortifying Bond – Pretty strong boost for your pet, who will carry more relative DPS weight when in healer gear. Even if your group can keep 25 stacks of might + fury up, they probably won’t apply much if any to your pet without this due to the 5 target limit.

So, is it worth losing pulsing stability, might, and vigor (plus vigor on pet swap), even if some of it will be redundant to go condi? It’s worth questioning, but I’m skeptical.

Hmm…I don’t really see it this way. This build pretty much maximizes healing as much as you’d want to, so I don’t see that as being sacrificed for any other support.

And the support brought here is really the ranger-specific (Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Spotter, Glyph of Empowerment, Grace of the Land), so you’ll want that in your group, whether the ranger is a healing druid or dps focused. There’s not a single utility you can drop that could be replaced by a non-ranger, so traps/signets don’t make sense. You could swap the elite, but that’s there directly to be a part of healing.

I’m also not seeing where there’s a loss of healing/damage in order to provide duplicate boons. Do you mean Nature’s Vengeance? There’s not really a better option than unless you’re swapping the entire trait line for what…Marks? There’s a bit of a damage increase there (more damage modifiers to you from traits, but less boons to your pet and no damage per boon modifier for either of you).

Warhorn is another source of boons, but it’s also a source of healing since it’s a blast finisher for water fields. For a DPS focus, you could go with axe…but that’s a pretty small increase for a non-zerk geared player.

The stealth thing is kind of w/e since you can swap a pet for that when you’re ooc without any penalty. The OP also already took that out of his build for the main pet.

Prophet.1584:

Honestly I prefer the ranged set over the melee as well. I also think we need to look at how many hard CC’s we have when making builds for anything in this new content. Breakbars are a real thing and once the mob is broken you get bonus damage. A bunker healing ranger could definitely see use as a breakbar killer in addition to healing and buffing the team.

Hmm…I didn’t think about the interaction with breakbars, but it would be interesting to see if the range point blank shot is used from has any effect on its effect on a breakbar.

However, I don’t expect this is something that will really be expected much from a druid.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Vieux P.1238:

Dahkeus.8243, i understand what your saying. But’s SH is anything but engaging or have any multiple strategy.

Everybody now knows theres only 1 strategy on this map. & it’s to summon bombers with ur initial resource, Zerg rush to kill guards. Bust doors, guards & finish lord. You don’t even need a pre-made team to achieve this in 3 minutes. I done it multiple time. Yawwwn!

Worst part, most of the time you don’t even see the other team cuz there rushing it as well. It’s mainly a race on who can bust doors, guards, lord the fastest.

Trust me there’s more players that feels the same that does not even wanna waste time posting there thoughts on it. SH is boring & it missed it’s mark. Sorry Anet.

What if…. you kill the enemy bombers…… GASP

This ^.

Go against any halfway decent team and your doorbreakers will be wiped at the start of the game.

But it’s funny how many people have played a handful of games and pulled this off against players who didn’t understand how to defend and jumped to the conclusion that this is the only viable strategy.

My guess is that Sigil of Air (in conjunction with Force, of course) will take the place of Night for zerk builds since frailty won’t be needed with a 10 person group.

Rework? Please no. This skill is perfect as it is. It’s an offensive-oriented heal skill that suites the theme of the legend as it should.

Reworking this would either homogenize the legend by making it another bland heal that does little to nothing offensively or just makes it OP by giving it a big heal without reducing the damage.

Hazka.6503:

I think you are not giving Spirit of Nature the credit it deserves. With Monk runes and 1200 healing power it is over 600 healing per second, on top of regen already being more than 400. That’s more hp/s than any other class can do with their healing skill. I just don’t feel like Glyph of Unity is very necessary since you only get the increased healing while in CA, and if you are running a healing build you already heal up everyone to max in no time with CA skills. Also, you say Unity has a larger radius, but it is only 600 tether range, 400 initial range compared to the 1000 range of spirit (only passive effect). The lower cooldown is incredibly nice though.
Overall I think spirit is a lot better because it gives you a lot higher sustain during the downtime of CA, wihch is where you actually need the additional healing.

Hmm, somewhere along the lines, I got the tooltip mixed up and thought there was a 1,200 range on Unity.

Ok, you have me sold on keeping Spirit of Nature (outside of a unique situation where more burst healing is needed, I guess).

@ Heimskarl: I think we’re mainly at the same build now with the only real exception being a difference in opinion of melee vs ranged: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNIQJAWTn0rC1sitqAOrAEtgFDBDerGWLrOrumVPgJAsuaApspzs0E-TVSBABWcBAcUJYW7P8wRAYVlfnqLIV1f0/BAAwhAgUA+N1C-w

Judging by some of the feedback here, such as from DiogaSilva, I think a lot of players just need to play the map more and learn what’s going on.

Once you understand what’s going on and why secondary objectives matter, SH becomes a really engaging map with a deep strategy. Games where both teams understand the map and really try to counter each other provide some of the most intense PvP games I’ve seen since release.

The complexity gives this map a bit of a learning curve, which makes it tough for people to give it an honest shot, but I agree with Nekretaal that the quality of games will keep going up as more and more players get the hang of things.

Hazka.6503:

Just a small correction, Spirit of Nature does scale with healing power now and fairly decently at that (0.15/s). That means that for a mobile fight where the spirit survives even just 30s that’s a 4.5 HP scaling. On top of that it has the 95% damage reduction, 28k hp with the trait and the heal ticks on itself so it is pretty much invulnerable unless it gets actively targeted by the boss. Of course there is still the problem of being immobile…

Well, I stand corrected on that. And yea, that spirits take 95% less damage is definitely a great change.

I guess that puts this back into consideration then…

So, it seems like it’s then more of a question on which is more valuable:
Spirit of Nature
Steady, low level healing that’s up 1/3rd of time in best case scenarios (1 min duration if not targetted or used for rez with 2 min cd)
Pulsing stability
Revive potential

Glyph of Unity
More bursty healing that’s up 1/4th of the time in best case scenarios (although probably less likely to maintain this up-time since Avatar transformation could limit casting)
Larger range of effect
More likely to be available when needed due to shorter cd

They’re really both sounding like really viable options at this point and this may be something that’s swapped out depending on the fight and the type of damage taken by players.

edit Made one other small change to the build and swapped Runes of Water for Runes of the Monk. I don’t see the condi cleanse on struck as that useful in PvE and believe that the 10% healing should be more useful.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYDbkRFaVxmVwXFIaxCjgB/UnqbVnRXpLGwUA+WBgTeS6mA-TFSBABW8EAcUJYW7PEmyvKuAAnqbIV1kittenAQKATkaB-w

First of all, great build. Unsurprisingly, this seems to have sank in the forums as many good builds due since it always seems the builds that need more criticism end up getting bumped more. =P

Second of all, I’m posting a suggested variant of the build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYDbkRFaVxmVwXFIaxCjgB/UnqbVnRXpLGwUA+WBgTeS6mA-TFSBABW8EAcUJYYK/q4CAcquBs2fIV1kittenAQKATkaB-w

Here are the changes and why I changed them:

- Heal switched to Troll Unguent and elite switched to Glyph of Unity.

Unguent was taken for two reasons. First is that it’s great at refilling energy for Avatar. Second is that it synergizes really well with Glyph of Unity in Avatar form. You can pop this along with Unity to continually pulse heals for the 6 seconds it’s up. You lose a water field, but you have enough of those from skills anyways.

I’m also not sold on Spirit of Nature since it’s healing doesn’t scale with your gear. Since it also now dies on activation, even though it still has a 120 sec cooldown. It’s just not what it used to be. I could see taking this for encounters when stability is needed, however.

- Switched Celestial Shadow trait to Verdant Etching

Basically because I’m using some glyphs in this variant.

- Stone Spirit swapped for Glyph of Empowerment

This is pretty debatable depending on whether the prot is needed, but since I’m traiting for glyphs, this is a solid dps boost for the group.

- Swapped Sw/Wh for Longbow

I know this is a theoretical dps decrease and also loses the blast/boons of horn, but I don’t expect it will be very practical for a druid to sit in melee range that much, particularly if you end with toughness on your gear (unless you’re aiming to tank the boss for some reason).

Since you’ll be jumping in and out of melee when swapping with staff, I expect much of the sword dps will be lost due to periods when you’re chasing the boss instead of hitting it.

Longbow, on the other hand, will give more versatile dps and while it will be lower damage against a perfect target, you will almost never have a period of time when your attacks aren’t landing.

And of course, there’s also the danger of the 1h sword animation preventing dodges, which I know is a very controversial subject…but even if you’re pro-sword, I expect it’s worth considering when we’re encountering new bosses with heavier difficulty.

- Swapped Omnomberry Cookie for Delicious Rice Ball

A pretty minor change, but I don’t expect the boon duration matters as much on a druid, particularly since I don’t expect it will affect your spirit’s boons.

- Swapped pets

Another minor thing, but I find ranged pets to be a bit more flexible and keep up good strong dps on moving targets, whereas melee pets often lag behind and lose a lot of damage due to AI issues.

Overall, I think these are relatively minor changes to a really solid build.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Now I main thief and warrior…

Pulling this from your large post.

These are probably the two most under-tuned professions at the moment. I think the vast majority of your problems are probably tied to a situation as simple as that.

If you’re getting frustrated, try a different profession. I know it sucks when your main suddenly becomes a shell of its former self, but it may be a good time to mess around with other professions. Buffs will inevitably come to war/thief, but in the meantime, playing a different prof will make you better at countering that profession when you return to your mains while also giving you a bit more of a competitive edge.

That’s my 2 copper at least. Good luck.

Oh wow! That’s a nice touch!

#GoTeamGuildedHollow

Until raids come out, it’s kinda hard to really test any healer build since there’s not really content to challenge a group to need a healer.

@ Zodryn: Aggro wasn’t the point of the thread, but you were looking for advice on gear and aggro does play a factor in how well that gear will help you survive. Take it as you will.

Malpractice.7850:

Dahkeus.8243:

You’ve made your choice…but I feel sorry for your raid group, as they’ll have to pick up slack due to your build and gear choices.

While raids are hopefully difficult, I hate this mentality that you (Being X Y Z or enjoying plying X with a 10% damage nerf, for example) is hindering your group to the point that they need to make up slack.
I’d like to think all classes are viable, some builds are better than others, and maybe specific situations might call for a specific build or a dps race that that 10% MAY make a difference, but we dont know everything yet.

I also would love to see the damage difference between condi ranger and condi engi, and which is easier to maintain those numbers (given, theyre spreadsheets)

Anyone have those numbers?

I can understand that the ‘meta only’ mentality gets taken too far, but please don’t interpret what I said there as part of it.

At the end of the day, effectiveness is a numbers game to a very large extend. You have a boss with X health that (with enrage timers) will need to be killed by Y time. There’s a threshold of what you will need in order to survive spike damage (since sustained damage doesn’t really matter in a game with no mana limits), so once you have the utility/stats to survive and recover a hit, any additional defense contributes 0 to the goal of getting X damage dealt by Y time frame.

In dungeons, there was no Y. That’s really why I often found the meta in dungeons to be a bit silly. So many people would set up a restrictive LFG post or would drop members in the middle of a dungeon not because they weren’t able to clear a dungeon, but because they wanted to clear it faster.

Until raids come out, it’s often not a question of “will I succeed?”, but “how long will success take?”. However, with enrage timers, it’s a whole different ball game.

We’re all still human, so skill and knowledge of encounters will still probably be a much bigger factor than the gear/build/party make up of a group (as it often is in MMOs), but they still play a factor.

Raids require players to play well, not perfectly. As long as you’re playing well enough, then it really doesn’t matter what the opinion is of anyone (even me) on the forums.

If the OP can clear raids as a condi thief in dire gear, then the OP is successful. My advice has been aimed at increasing that likeliness, so please understand that in no way am I criticizing them on any other level.

Not sure who here thinks that toughness is the biggest factor, because that hasn’t been said at all.

However, it is a factor. That’s a fact.

It also is in conjunction with other factors, such as damage and proximity. If you’re playing a thief, you already have the proximity factor to your disadvantage.

If you want to survive a hit, that’s fine. You have two options for that: Vitality and Toughness. Vitality totally makes sense for a thief, since you’re already starting out with the lowest health pool of all profession (shared with Guard and Ele).

Toughness, on the other hand, is just counter-intuitive to that, particularly if you decide to stack a lot of it. You’re trading off the likeliness of surviving damage to an increased likeliness of taking damage.

Not only will dire further decrease your damage potential to the group by leaving you with only 1 damage stat on a class and spec that’s already relatively low dps to begin with, but you’re also doing it in a way that will increase the likeliness of you taking damage.

Now, you’ve decided that you want to gamble on what that % of increase is, just because there’s no proven, concrete answer behind that. Even if that was a safe gamble, you’re still really hampering a build that’s already in a weak place.

You’ve made your choice…but I feel sorry for your raid group, as they’ll have to pick up slack due to your build and gear choices.

triggerhappy.3871:

https://youtu.be/ImxIhT746PM?t=50s

One more work for Mr. McKlain.

P.S. Conjured weapons should be weapon kits.

Eh, the vid shows a thief barely surviving a 1 v 1 against a mesmer who doesn’t seem to know how to land a decent CC-burst combo.

Yea, there’s a ton of evade on DD…but to be honest, they kinda need it right now.

Eh, I think the meta just needs more diversity. We also will need more viable base builds so that FreeToPlay players can compete…but the PvP-centric FTP playerbase may have already dropped off too much for that to matter by the time this happens.

Zodryn.4216:

randomguy.1283:

Zodryn.4216:

harold.3526:

Zodryn.4216:

but I’m already looking at using a bit of dire for the reason stated in the OP

Please, no toughness gear you will get aggro, unless you want to get almost 100% aggro uptime and you have 100% sure you will dodge/survive almost everything, or you will just keep dieing and make your teammates life harder.

There is no proof toughness has anything to do with aggro.

Actually most bosses are definitely made to aggro on the player with the most toughess, and with my understanding this is true for ALL bosses in the upcoming raids.

Again, I haven’t found any evidence that that is true for current content. People have found the opposite is true sometimes, and even the wiki says it is player speculation based on other MMOs. It may be true for raids, but won’t there likely be someone else with more toughness than me (will need to see how the raid meta works out)? I’m not even in full dire. A heavy barely needs any toughness to match my level of armor.

There’s multiple factors on aggro tables, so it’s not a 100% guaranteed way to get threat on all mobs, but it most certainly does increase the likeliness of getting aggro in most cases. I’ve played regularly with someone who DPSes from a rabid grenade engi, using a build that does less damage than the meta condi build. At the same time, I’ve played a zerker melee character and bosses were much more likely to chase the rapid geared player than me. Because of this, the engi often ended up ‘kite tanking’ bosses with grenades.

But if you want to believe that it won’t make any difference just because toughness isn’t the determining factor of aggro in all cases, be my guest. Just remember that we warned you…

Not entirely sure if it’s Coalescence of Ruin being too short on range, but a lot of 1,200 range projectile attacks actually hit from a bit farther, particularly if you press the skill instead of relying on the auto-attack cast. You can see this when you back up to the point where your AA stops with a range weapon, then backing up a step further and pressing the skill again.

Edit Just tested it and you’re correct. You can go to max distance with CoR (where the red bar under the skill icon doesn’t appear) and cast it and it won’t hit the target.

I’ll be submitting a bug report and I recommend anyone else do the same. If it’s like just about any other ticketting system, the more tickets submitted, the more likely it is to get fixed.

I always thought the ‘using the force’ to make the staff twirl move looked a bit weird (thankfully it got changed for thief), but I can see it as ok on revenant with this class being a spirit-based magic class.

Orion Templar.4589:

Dahkeus.8243:

I actually find it very relaxing…kinda makes playing a revenant feel very ‘zen’. =P

I hear ya – that’s why I didn’t want to suggest disabling it unilaterally. But I’m sure there are others like myself who really don’t like the way it can clash with the background music (which is very well done in many areas). An option to disable the facet tones would really be a nice addition to the game.

Yea, I think it would be nice for people to toggle this along with the color-changing animation since that seems to be causing issues for players too.

Yea, not getting rewards for people is the worst. My guild has always prided itself on making sure that everyone who attends gets their commendations…but this is a nightmare to do between the bugs and overall design of guild treks.

It is very unfinished…but considering how little players have really made a fuss about something like this just speaks to how unpopular underwater mechanics are, lol.

I actually find it very relaxing…kinda makes playing a revenant feel very ‘zen’. =P

@ SoulstitchMMO: He means the note that plays periodically when you have a facet active as a herald.

So…just be aware that if you’re going to use gear with toughness, like Dire, you will be more likely to attract aggro, particularly if the rest of your group isn’t using a lot of toughness. Considering that you’ll be in melee, you’ll be even more likely to have aggro.

In other words, your toughness gear will likely make it harder to survive while also lowering your dps. If you’re convinced that you want more defensive stats, consider going for vitality.

As for DPS comparisons with thief condi…I keep hearing that it’s lower DPS, but I haven’t really seen anything definitive behind those broad statements and I haven’t seen anyone back that up while also considering the additional damage from venom share.

You don’t have to kit swap…but you’ll be hindering yourself from your potential if you decide not to.

This really needs a sticky.

Adding to the list:

- Members not getting credit/rewards when completing guild puzzles
– Treks still make it a royal pain to get everyone credit since you often have more guild members than you have points to click on for your trek

As a side note in general, I’d be fine if you just deleted Treks from the game…

Don’t fight them alone if you can help it. Necros seem to still be our counter in most cases.

So, there seem to be a LOT of problems with guild missions.

I’m sure most of the bugs have been reported, such as
– members on different servers not able to trigger guild trek points
– members not getting transformed back after completing a rush
– Guild rushes having incorrect durations
– Members still triggering traps on the Rush course after being transformed back to normal

And I’m sure there’s plenty I’m missing…

But one of the biggest selling points from a guild mission perspective was instanced missions. However, this doesn’t seem to be the case for things like guild rushes. I understand that bounties would be rough to instance due to the size of paths, but can we at least get rushes instanced?

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

Glaphen…what are you even going on about? Your attempt to defend a thief with a bad build who tried to 2 v 1 at far and walked into obvious DH traps is now just going in circles.

How was it obvious, the trap on the point was obvious, the trap placed on top of him while stealthed was invisible, 2 utilities 100-0 him while he was invisible.

Because the DH was visible walking up to the point. The player clearly saw this (he even targetted the DH). The guy wasn’t invisible until he got on the point and the only way a guard can stealth is with runes of the trapper.

But really, the guy should have turned around the second he saw 2 red names anywhere near the far point and helped his team at mid instead of feeding the enemy team a free 5 points right at the start of the game.

P.s. I can come out of stealth and down a thief 100-0 with only 2 skills on my condi engi too if he just stands there without any reaction for 4 seconds.

Thief was stealthed and no one knew he was there, do that on any other class please.

Sorry bud, you’re still making no sense.

If you have a dragonhunter that stealths, it’s because he had runes of the trapper and dropped a trap. That’s a clear signal not to just walk up to where he disappeared.

And they didn’t need to see the thief. People attack points from stealth all the time. Just because you don’t see someone doesn’t mean you’re not going to defend a point with traps.

In organized teams, a stealth split that attack far/home is really common. In pug games, there’s, sadly, very often a yolo thief like this who will go far regardless of bad of a decision it is.

So you just ignore the point because a trap is on it even though all the DH spam the forums that you can send pets to get rid of them or dodge through them, one of the rare DH who didn’t save them and someone saw their placement positions but now the way to counter it is to just do a 180.

Are you reading this stuff? Is English your second language maybe? I don’t mean any offense by that, but you really seem confused or something…

I can’t tell if you’re trying to debate general strategies for fighting a DH or are defending the actions of the OP in this situation.

I see no problem with what I wrote. Look at any DH thread in this forum, filled with DH spamming learn to dodge, your advice is to not even go to the point anymore.

Ok, I don’t even know what to say to you anymore…you started by defending what the OP did and are talking about something completely different now. I think you’re trying to pidgeonhole what I said into the generic forum rhetoric going on around here or something maybe…

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

Glaphen…what are you even going on about? Your attempt to defend a thief with a bad build who tried to 2 v 1 at far and walked into obvious DH traps is now just going in circles.

How was it obvious, the trap on the point was obvious, the trap placed on top of him while stealthed was invisible, 2 utilities 100-0 him while he was invisible.

Because the DH was visible walking up to the point. The player clearly saw this (he even targetted the DH). The guy wasn’t invisible until he got on the point and the only way a guard can stealth is with runes of the trapper.

But really, the guy should have turned around the second he saw 2 red names anywhere near the far point and helped his team at mid instead of feeding the enemy team a free 5 points right at the start of the game.

P.s. I can come out of stealth and down a thief 100-0 with only 2 skills on my condi engi too if he just stands there without any reaction for 4 seconds.

Thief was stealthed and no one knew he was there, do that on any other class please.

Sorry bud, you’re still making no sense.

If you have a dragonhunter that stealths, it’s because he had runes of the trapper and dropped a trap. That’s a clear signal not to just walk up to where he disappeared.

And they didn’t need to see the thief. People attack points from stealth all the time. Just because you don’t see someone doesn’t mean you’re not going to defend a point with traps.

In organized teams, a stealth split that attack far/home is really common. In pug games, there’s, sadly, very often a yolo thief like this who will go far regardless of bad of a decision it is.

So you just ignore the point because a trap is on it even though all the DH spam the forums that you can send pets to get rid of them or dodge through them, one of the rare DH who didn’t save them and someone saw their placement positions but now the way to counter it is to just do a 180.

Are you reading this stuff? Is English your second language maybe? I don’t mean any offense by that, but you really seem confused or something…

I can’t tell if you’re trying to debate general strategies for fighting a DH or are defending the actions of the OP in this situation.

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

Glaphen…what are you even going on about? Your attempt to defend a thief with a bad build who tried to 2 v 1 at far and walked into obvious DH traps is now just going in circles.

How was it obvious, the trap on the point was obvious, the trap placed on top of him while stealthed was invisible, 2 utilities 100-0 him while he was invisible.

Because the DH was visible walking up to the point. The player clearly saw this (he even targetted the DH). The guy wasn’t invisible until he got on the point and the only way a guard can stealth is with runes of the trapper.

But really, the guy should have turned around the second he saw 2 red names anywhere near the far point and helped his team at mid instead of feeding the enemy team a free 5 points right at the start of the game.

P.s. I can come out of stealth and down a thief 100-0 with only 2 skills on my condi engi too if he just stands there without any reaction for 4 seconds.

Thief was stealthed and no one knew he was there, do that on any other class please.

Sorry bud, you’re still making no sense.

If you have a dragonhunter that stealths, it’s because he had runes of the trapper and dropped a trap. That’s a clear signal not to just walk up to where he disappeared.

And they didn’t need to see the thief. People attack points from stealth all the time. Just because you don’t see someone doesn’t mean you’re not going to defend a point with traps.

In organized teams, a stealth split that attack far/home is really common. In pug games, there’s, sadly, very often a yolo thief like this who will go far regardless of bad of a decision it is.

If you’re going to rely on Rune of the Daredevil for your crit (since the amulet is Soldier’s), you’ll want at least something to supply your endurance bar. I would say at the very least, you’ll want Sig of Agility, which would particularly advantageous since you lack condi cleanse.

This should be an easy substitution for Roll for Initiative since that skill is really just too inferior to alternatives to be worthwhile for much of anything in PvP. If they lower the cd someday, I’ll take that back, but until then, it’s not worth 60 seconds. With your other 2 abilities as stun breaks, there’s not much lost there.

I’d also suggest going Withdraw as your heal. The new DD heal is just too easy to interrupt and you’ll need an immobilize break if you’re not going with Dash for your dodge.

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

Glaphen…what are you even going on about? Your attempt to defend a thief with a bad build who tried to 2 v 1 at far and walked into obvious DH traps is now just going in circles.

How was it obvious, the trap on the point was obvious, the trap placed on top of him while stealthed was invisible, 2 utilities 100-0 him while he was invisible.

Because the DH was visible walking up to the point. The player clearly saw this (he even targetted the DH). The guy wasn’t invisible until he got on the point and the only way a guard can stealth is with runes of the trapper.

But really, the guy should have turned around the second he saw 2 red names anywhere near the far point and helped his team at mid instead of feeding the enemy team a free 5 points right at the start of the game.

P.s. I can come out of stealth and down a thief 100-0 with only 2 skills on my condi engi too if he just stands there without any reaction for 4 seconds.

Glaphen…what are you even going on about? Your attempt to defend a thief with a bad build who tried to 2 v 1 at far and walked into obvious DH traps is now just going in circles.

ANort.1425:

Dahkeus.8243:

displacedTitan.6897:

Are runes of Aristocracy not worth trying? They seem like the Condi version of Strength since we use HGH and condi damage it seems like they should work really well, no?

In open world PvE or WvW, yea, I could see that. They aren’t available in sPvP.

Yes they are, you just have to pay a few gold to unlock them. I think they were added with HoT.

Ahh, haven’t tried them yet then. They should be a pretty solid option then.

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.

He was using healing signet for might stacks. Yes it could have but he used it for mobility. He doesn’t have a SB probably since he was spamming Heartseeker at the start. He was stuck in the barrier even if it didn’t look like it since he get’s interrupt at the end dodge attempt too. As for last one and response he was interrupted by barrier and knockdowned. Only chance he would have is if he stealed but I think he accidently pressed it before combat for some reason and it went on cooldown.

Didn’t see the knockdown on barrier, so I guess it was a little less blatantly bad.

However, I still don’t think you can blame DH traps when you blow all your defensive cooldowns before walking into a blatantly trapped area.

Also doesn’t help that he continued to walk into the barrier and knocked himself down a second time.

He saw the LB5 channel and knew it would kill him with the impact damage if he didn’t dodge and his Shadow Trap wasn’t casting fast enough with the slow.

Dodging is always a bad idea when you hit a warding line. It’s like trying to pull your fingers apart when you’re playing with a Chinese Finger Trap.

Still doesn’t defend walking right into DH traps when you’ve blown every stunbreak except for a 1.5 second teleport on shadow trap.

Well you could see where he was placing the traps but the Maw was placed a bit ahead of the rest and I think was placed on top of him while the DH was stealthed by trapper runes.

You don’t need to see where he placed any of them. If there’s a DH standing on a point by himself, it’s painfully obvious that the second you step anywhere on that point the whole place will explode once you do. You should never, ever, ever walk onto any trap, whether it’s Ranger or DH or whatever if you don’t have the tools available to deal with it.

DH wasn’t standing on the point, a Necro was, DH was stealthed after he placed a trap. I swear you DH spam the forums with learn to dodge but now you say don’t even go anywhere near the invisible traps.

Re-watch the video. The DH was walking up to the point and the guy even targetted him before yoloing into a 2 v 1.

And why are you trying to hard to argue this? Do you honestly think that this guy was actually running a good build and made good decisions here??

Yes he has a stealth based build, if you’ll notice he was in stealth the entire time 100-0.

Ok, so a guardian walks to a point then stealths when the only teammate nearby is a necro.

There’s only 1 possible way a guardian will stealth by themselves…runes of the TRAPPER.

Go to 0:47. Watch as the DH is obviously walking towards the point and is targetted by the player. He stays visible right until he gets on the point.

At this point, why this yolo thief thinks it’s a good idea to 2 v 1 at far right as the game. This is never a good idea, no matter what profession you play and no matter what professions you’re going against.

The guy is either not paying attention or just thought “GUESS THIS GUARDIAN IS A GHOST, LOL! NO THREAT HERE!”

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.

He was using healing signet for might stacks. Yes it could have but he used it for mobility. He doesn’t have a SB probably since he was spamming Heartseeker at the start. He was stuck in the barrier even if it didn’t look like it since he get’s interrupt at the end dodge attempt too. As for last one and response he was interrupted by barrier and knockdowned. Only chance he would have is if he stealed but I think he accidently pressed it before combat for some reason and it went on cooldown.

Didn’t see the knockdown on barrier, so I guess it was a little less blatantly bad.

However, I still don’t think you can blame DH traps when you blow all your defensive cooldowns before walking into a blatantly trapped area.

Also doesn’t help that he continued to walk into the barrier and knocked himself down a second time.

He saw the LB5 channel and knew it would kill him with the impact damage if he didn’t dodge and his Shadow Trap wasn’t casting fast enough with the slow.

Dodging is always a bad idea when you hit a warding line. It’s like trying to pull your fingers apart when you’re playing with a Chinese Finger Trap.

Still doesn’t defend walking right into DH traps when you’ve blown every stunbreak except for a 1.5 second teleport on shadow trap.

Well you could see where he was placing the traps but the Maw was placed a bit ahead of the rest and I think was placed on top of him while the DH was stealthed by trapper runes.

You don’t need to see where he placed any of them. If there’s a DH standing on a point by himself, it’s painfully obvious that the second you step anywhere on that point the whole place will explode once you do. You should never, ever, ever walk onto any trap, whether it’s Ranger or DH or whatever if you don’t have the tools available to deal with it.

DH wasn’t standing on the point, a Necro was, DH was stealthed after he placed a trap. I swear you DH spam the forums with learn to dodge but now you say don’t even go anywhere near the invisible traps.

Re-watch the video. The DH was walking up to the point and the guy even targetted him before yoloing into a 2 v 1.

And why are you trying to hard to argue this? Do you honestly think that this guy was actually running a good build and made good decisions here??

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.

He was using healing signet for might stacks. Yes it could have but he used it for mobility. He doesn’t have a SB probably since he was spamming Heartseeker at the start. He was stuck in the barrier even if it didn’t look like it since he get’s interrupt at the end dodge attempt too. As for last one and response he was interrupted by barrier and knockdowned. Only chance he would have is if he stealed but I think he accidently pressed it before combat for some reason and it went on cooldown.

Didn’t see the knockdown on barrier, so I guess it was a little less blatantly bad.

However, I still don’t think you can blame DH traps when you blow all your defensive cooldowns before walking into a blatantly trapped area.

Also doesn’t help that he continued to walk into the barrier and knocked himself down a second time.

He saw the LB5 channel and knew it would kill him with the impact damage if he didn’t dodge and his Shadow Trap wasn’t casting fast enough with the slow.

Dodging is always a bad idea when you hit a warding line. It’s like trying to pull your fingers apart when you’re playing with a Chinese Finger Trap.

Still doesn’t defend walking right into DH traps when you’ve blown every stunbreak except for a 1.5 second teleport on shadow trap.

Well you could see where he was placing the traps but the Maw was placed a bit ahead of the rest and I think was placed on top of him while the DH was stealthed by trapper runes.

You don’t need to see where he placed any of them. If there’s a DH standing on a point by himself, it’s painfully obvious that the second you step anywhere on that point the whole place will explode once you do. You should never, ever, ever walk onto any trap, whether it’s Ranger or DH or whatever if you don’t have the tools available to deal with it.

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.

He was using healing signet for might stacks. Yes it could have but he used it for mobility. He doesn’t have a SB probably since he was spamming Heartseeker at the start. He was stuck in the barrier even if it didn’t look like it since he get’s interrupt at the end dodge attempt too. As for last one and response he was interrupted by barrier and knockdowned. Only chance he would have is if he stealed but I think he accidently pressed it before combat for some reason and it went on cooldown.

Didn’t see the knockdown on barrier, so I guess it was a little less blatantly bad.

However, I still don’t think you can blame DH traps when you blow all your defensive cooldowns before walking into a blatantly trapped area.

Also doesn’t help that he continued to walk into the barrier and knocked himself down a second time.

He saw the LB5 channel and knew it would kill him with the impact damage if he didn’t dodge and his Shadow Trap wasn’t casting fast enough with the slow.

Dodging is always a bad idea when you hit a warding line. It’s like trying to pull your fingers apart when you’re playing with a Chinese Finger Trap.

Still doesn’t defend walking right into DH traps when you’ve blown every stunbreak except for a 1.5 second teleport on shadow trap.

Pretty inevitable that they will be nerfed. I don’t think they’re overpowered against experienced/knowledgable players, but the community is making enough noise that it’s pretty much inevitable.

I just hope they do something like Morwath suggested and move damage to the LB or do something like that so that DH doesn’t completely lose its viability.

Their last change to traps was a reasonable shave, so it seems like ANet is being cautious on a nerf, which is nice.

glaphen.5230:

Dahkeus.8243:

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.

He was using healing signet for might stacks. Yes it could have but he used it for mobility. He doesn’t have a SB probably since he was spamming Heartseeker at the start. He was stuck in the barrier even if it didn’t look like it since he get’s interrupt at the end dodge attempt too. As for last one and response he was interrupted by barrier and knockdowned. Only chance he would have is if he stealed but I think he accidently pressed it before combat for some reason and it went on cooldown.

Didn’t see the knockdown on barrier, so I guess it was a little less blatantly bad.

However, I still don’t think you can blame DH traps when you blow all your defensive cooldowns before walking into a blatantly trapped area.

Also doesn’t help that he continued to walk into the barrier and knocked himself down a second time.

displacedTitan.6897:

Are runes of Aristocracy not worth trying? They seem like the Condi version of Strength since we use HGH and condi damage it seems like they should work really well, no?

In open world PvE or WvW, yea, I could see that. They aren’t available in sPvP.

More reason to play Stronghold over Conquest. =P

…you just stood there.

1) Withdraw would have saved your kitten
2) Shadowstep would have saved your kitten
3) Infiltrator’s Arrow would have saved your kitten
4) A dodge could have even saved your kitten
5) Using Shadow Trap earlier would have saved your kitten

But instead, just sat in the traps for over 4 seconds like a deer in headlights. You weren’t even immobilized!

And that’s on top of the fact that you just walked up to a point clearly defended by a dragonhunter. I can’t think of another situation that screams “THERE WILL BE TRAPS IF YOU WALK HERE!!” more than a situation like this.

What do you expect?

There is so much counterplay here, even with your terrible choice in thief skills, that would have saved you from this outcome…I don’t even know what to say.

edit @ Glaphen: He stood in the traps for almost 3 seconds before even starting to cast shadow trap.