Guild Wars 2

Need it now.

I’m skeptical if you could do this infinitely, but even if you could do it for a long time, you cost yourself your ability to dodge attacks in addition to your initiative while also being at risk of reveal.

Gray.9041:

If we can up the number of target from 3 to 5, staff becomes a much better AoE weapon.

Yea, kinda surprised me that it’s being sold as an AoE weapon, but only has 3 targets…

But who knows since that’s just from datamined tooltips. That’s something that could easily be changed between now and the beta or even after.

So, I’m loving a lot of what DD is offering so far…but here’s my fear:

So many of the DD traits offer so much synergy to swords that the benefits of staff may just be completely eclipsed by what you gain from a sword set.

Let’s look at the synergy with traits for each sword set as an example

S/P
Gains stealth with bound on black powder.
– Indirectly gains access to condition removal if used with SA traits
Gains the ability to remove condis from Escapist Absolution when evading with Pistol Whip.
Gains healing from Escapist Absolution when evading with Pistol Whip.

S/D
Gains the ability to remove condis from Escapist Absolution when evading with Flanking Strike.
Gains healing from Escapist Absolution when evading with Flanking Strike.
Playstyle synergizes very well with high evade uptime, which is provided from DD 3rd endurance bar.

Now, a staff does technically get the same evade benefits that S/D does, but it has no direct access to stealth, and less condi removal. We don’t know the ini cost of staff skills yet, but it looks very possible that a S/D or S/P set will just be better for Daredevil all around.

I’d love to see sword Daredevils as viable, but it will be sad to see our new weapon as just all around inferior right out the gate…

How to counter a thieves with high evade? Just hit them kittence between evades. Thieves aren’t magically getting a higher health pool, access to protection, or a viable build that uses an amulet with toughness with this change.

Besides, would you rather fight someone who mindlessly face tanks your hits or someone that has to actively dodge them to survive?

Justification for HoT.

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Kocoff.7582:

Rain.9213:

Doggie.3184:

Kocoff.7582:

ALSO for those who, like me, are seriously considering using this spec as main spec….

May I suggest this appetizer: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Evasion

What do you think? or is it too underwhelming?

I’m too obsessed with Traveler runes. gottagofast

If you pick up Runes of Evasion+Dash dodge, you will get 11 seconds of swiftness on a dodge roll, plus Fury plus cripple an enemy every 10 seconds AND 175 Ferocity.

So that’s practically permanent swiftness if you’re using Thrill of the Crime.

You also have other swiftness rune options like Rune of the Pack and Centaur that increase your damage and also give you lots of swiftness. Save those Traveler runes for Necromancer or Mesmer, dude!

That’s a good a point. I would use Runes of Evasion to replace Impairing Daggers, in case i need to chase. Bound is too good to pass mate. especially WvW. The choices really compete against each other and they made good job.

I just wish, Escapist’s Absolution would change tiers or just simply be a minor.

Bound is good if you’re running off hand Pistol or Staff. I really don’t see it doing much for off hand dagger other than some nice dodge damage but it could potentially reveal you if you’re in stealth and you dodge to avoid an incoming hit. Plus you have to dodge into an enemy if you wanna hit them and you usually wanna evade away from an enemy.

That’s right. It could completely mess you up.

I think this right here will keep S/P from being as awesome as some people think it will be. Sure, you get stealth from offhand + dodge, but if you SR and then try to dodge a knockback, you’re likely to reveal yourself from the damage.

A free condition removal on every dodge for a spec that has 3 dodges per bar along with a ton of ways to recover it would be just a wee bit too strong for a minor trait, rofl!

ixon.2496:

Dahkeus.8243:

In this thread:
“Dear Devs, please confirm our conspiracy theory so that we can feel good about trash talking you. Then buff us. Kthnxbai!”

Conspiracy theory? More like a blatant observation!

Observation = “Acro and DD have a lot in common!”

Conspiracy theory = “ANet nerfed Acro just to make me buy the expansion! They’re a bunch of meanies out to ruin my day and steal my money!”

In this thread:
“Dear Devs, please confirm our conspiracy theory so that we can feel good about trash talking you. Then buff us. Kthnxbai!”

Amante.8109:

Yes, you can run Acro with DD and whatever else, but there’s a little concept called opportunity cost that comes into play. By having to take two trait lines to get increased survivability comparable to what other professions would have with one, we’re giving up a whole extra line of damage and/or utility to do it. This is not ideal.

Acro needs something more to make it unique and viable on its own, and Thief needs higher base durability in general. Doesn’t get much simpler than that.

Of course there’s opportunity cost, but there’s also synergy between the two lines that outweighs that. You could go for something like DA or CS for more damage or you could go acro for more dodges, which translates to more damage with bounding dodger. The DD traitline isn’t straight damage or straight defense. It’s a bit of both or either depending on what you pick up, so you can pick up more offensive traits and supplement with acro for defense or you can pick up defensive traits (like unhindered combat) and get damage from something like CS/DA.

Besides, history has shown that you can do fine without ever picking up a full offensive trait line. An example of this was the Acro/SA/Trickery S/D meta back in the day. People thought you NEEDED CS or DA to play a decent thief build before Jumper (I believe it was him) used this build and made it meta.

Rain.9213:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Yea, do that same thing with every other game that comes out with an expansion…

Welcome to video games. That’s why it’s an expansion and not a sequel.

P.s. We get it. You don’t wanna play it. Feel free to stop trolling these forums and go find your magical game where you get what you consider to be your money’s worth.

He won’t. You’re talking about a guy who has a website dedicated to whining about GW2. Don’t believe me? Click the link in his signature.

I’ll take your word for it. It wouldn’t surprise me and I’m certainly not going to contribute hits to it.

DeceiverX.8361:

Thieves are upset that we’re being sold back effectively the same traits that were once in Acro + a few that would have made Acro and the thief as a whole complete… without needing the $50 bill in the form of another trait line. The Acrobatics line is still terrible and there’s effectively zero reason now to use it. Daredevil as a name is unfitting but whatever. It’s a freaking name. I am glad at least they changed it from two words to one, though, as Dare Devil was kind of painful to read and isn’t even grammatically correct.

I hope we continue to see releases of elite specs. I’m really hoping at some point we can finally make use of the revealed debuff better. The design concept behind Revealed Training was awesome. I wasn’t on either side of rifle vs staff, but getting reveal on auto-attack from the rifle due to its noise and size and traits focused on being revealed would have been really interesting.

1) Acro never gave combo finishers on dodge.
2) Acro never gave damage on dodge.
3) Acro never gave endurance for ini spent
4) Acro never removed conditions on dodge

Also, Acro will actually synergize really well with this trait line. No one ever said you could only run this or acro.

If they had left Feline’s Grace as it was, then they might as well have just removed the endurance bar for thieves and just let them have infinite dodges.

Ya, it sucks that S/D got nerfed, but that really has nothing to do with this specialization.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Yea, do that same thing with every other game that comes out with an expansion…

Welcome to video games. That’s why it’s an expansion and not a sequel.

P.s. We get it. You don’t wanna play it. Feel free to stop trolling these forums and go find your magical game where you get what you consider to be your money’s worth.

Predictable “The sky is falling because I’ve lumped up every possible advantage a profession can have into one imaginary spec” arguments.

You can technically get stealth in builds like S/P with the dodge trait, but you won’t see tons of evades in this since dodges will be burnt just for stealth, rather than for evasion.

Meanwhile, the new staff weapon involves almost no stealth and will only stealth if you bring a different secondary weapon or a non-physical utility.

You still won’t see any thief build stealth as much as a D/P or D/D thief, even with S/P thieves able to stealth, so really you’re going to be less likely to encounter a thief stealthing after a patch, even though there will be more builds that are technically capable of stealth.

Shimekiri.1580:

Sorel.4870:

And it look likes it will greatly improve the state of S/D, S/P and P/P. Well done.

Actually it will do NOTHING to improve the state of P/P. It’ll keep it just as bad as it is, due to the lack of utility and 0 AoE. At best, it’ll make P/P a slightly more viable niche build for PvP.

‘Greatly improve the state of’ =/= ‘Will make viable’

Riranor.6315:

Lol. just dodge roll the dodge rolls. plus if they waste their dodge rolls for damage then you can range them down easy. i see that as their counter honestly.

Haha, that’s an awesome mental image. I can just now see two DDs fighting by just dodging back and forth at each other. =P

messiah.1908:

so does the p/p set also will get some stealth love with evades? making it more useful ?

If you use it with the Daredevil spec, then yea, you can blind field and dodge to stealth using P/P.

WindGodGirl.6405:

I’m failing to see how fifty dollars is overpriced when that’s how much I’ve seen expansions go for since forever.

In much more expensive games, to boot.

Yea, if you bought the game at $60 and then the xpac for $50, you paid $110 total for 3 years worth of content, plus the expac when it releases.

If you played WoW, then you paid $15 a month for 3 years, totaling $540!

And that’s not even including the $50 cost of the base game and each expansion…

So, if you think that GW2 is at least 1/5th as fun as WoW, you’re getting a bargain.

@ Vincent: Weren’t you going to quit? If so, feel free to head on out of here. We get it. You’re upset about everything and think that ANet are some evil money grabbers who get their jollies from scamming you.

S/P is and always has been a balance nightmare just because it has all its eggs in one basket (pistol whip). Either Pistol Whip is too strong, allowing you to spam CC, evade and big damage at the same time or it’s too weak and you have little else to contribute that other weapon sets don’t do better.

Stealth from this could be an interesting way to make a S/P build more diverse…but I’m still a bit skeptical about that happening.

Possibly. Maybe not. That’s what the beta is for. =P

If it’s anything like the last beta, we’ll see some pretty significant changes to this specialization based on feedback.

Solori.6025:

MiniEquine.6014:

I’m interested to see if Steal does actually change any or not (does it grant endurance?). Being that the Daredevil gets a 2-H weapon, the mechanic is supposed to change but not add a new facet (unlike the 1-H weapon elites). That said, stof is probably right in that the mechanic in this case is more about dodge (a game mechanic) rather than Steal (a class mechanic). They aren’t lying, but it is different from the other classes for sure.

But …This isn’t even new for thieves.

This is the old acro line.
Your elite spec is a trait line you used to have.
Anet is making you pay for a new weapon and a trait line you already could use before the patch.

Umm…no, not really. The only thing it has in common with the acro line, even before, was that it gives you more dodge. However, this line gives combo finishers to dodges, utility skills with combos, and the ability to finish someone with a skill instead of a stomp.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Is this community really that jaded? Anet wouldn’t be reading the forums and listening to us now if it weren’t for the drastic measures taken almost 2 years ago. So they can be reasoned with, it just isn’t easy to do.

Is the entire community that jaded? No. However, judging by the conspiracy theories that some people are trying to push, at least some of the community is, lol.

And for the record, the idea that ANet nerfed a spec looong before the release of an elite spec just to make that elite spec look better is completely ridiculous. This is especially true since from what we’ve seen, a S/D build can be played with the Daredevil specialization and picking up Daredevil doesn’t mean that you suddenly can’t pick up acro too.

Treeoflife.4031:

Second is the Heal Skill and the master trait Staff Master seem to compete with each other and i see no reason to take both. One rewards you when endurance is full and the other rewards you when it isn’t. i can see trying to heal in advance of dodging but you don’t use your heal at the beginning of a fight. Do they want us to fight as long as we can using evade skills and blinds draining all initiative then heal before resorting to dodge? just confused on this one but we will see how it works out.

Here’s my thoughts on the use of the heal skill:

Since it has a long cast, you will want to be stealthed and/or a good distance from combat to avoid getting interrupted. If you’re using staff, you won’t have much if any stealth, but you can use Debilitating Arc or Vault to disengage from combat before casting to get some distance.

As for the endurance, this is at odds with the staff master trait to some degree, but I think this mostly promotes tactical gameplay. Here’s some examples of ideal use:

- When you need a moderate heal, burn your endurance, then disengage to use the heal and replenish endurance before dodging back in. This is an offensive tactic when combined with Bounding Dodger.

- When you need a large heal, utilize staff and utility skills for defense while saving up endurance. Disengage right as you regain max endurance, then use for the extra heal. Dodge back into combat to regain the extra damage of Staff Master.

Both these situations fully utilize the heal skill’s benefits while also allowing you to maintain the damage bonus of Staff Master.

Ultimately, however, the usefulness of this heal in PvP will probably depend on the prevalent of mantra mesmers and /P thieves since ranged interrupts will easily shut this down. Come to think of it…Daredevils who use the throwing knives could also easily interrupt from range.

Hmm…I may be sticking with Withdraw, lol.

The ability to combo finish with a dodge and stomp with a chained skill are pretty new mechanics if you ask me…

Shiki.7148:

Serious Thought.5394:

I wish the damage on dodge wasn’t staff exclusive >.< It’s so nice, but this line is going into my D/p build it looks like >.>

I don’t see staff being required for the dodge traits… Where did you get this from? Only one that specifically mentions staff is deal more damage while you do not have full endurance and wield a staff. Did you mean this one?

Yea, it’s definitely not required to use a staff. Staff Master is definitely a good talent for evades, but you could also just skip Staff Master and get the condi clear on dodge, which is also a good option. I’m sure we’ll probably even see some staff users with Escapist’s Absolution if there’s too much condi in the meta. I mean, this would even make it incredibly easy to counter single condi-focused builds like burn guards.

As for the elite spec overall, I’m definitely excited to try it out. My only worry is what the final damage numbers will look like since this will make or break the build in several areas. I mean, if the dps is high enough, it could become the new PvE meta, but if it doesn’t do more dps than dagger, it won’t become meta regardless of the utilities.

I think right now, I’m really excited to get the Vault skill on staff since it sounds a lot like Jump Shot, but I wish it wasn’t half the range.

Yea….people making knee jerk overly dramatic complaints about how terrible everything is has nothing to do with what class they play.

Thief is an awesome class, but playing it won’t make people immune from sinking to the level of forum QQers, lol.

Yea, my main is a human thief, but it’ll be kitten tempting to roll an Asura for Daredevil…

Well, I hope that Daredevil opens up a viable staff build in addition to a viable /P build like S/P so that we have a bit more build diversity in PvP. Thieves are still in a great spot for Conquest, but that’s pretty much because of 1 build that’s been around forever and it would be nice to see this class have more choices.

Purecura.1795:

Final Fantasy XIV can do sitting for all of their races, come on GW2

Yea, the emote system in FF is awesome…but then compare the actual gameplay mechanics of that stuff tab-target game to GW2 where projectiles have distinct mechanics, swords can cleave, etc.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Whatever, this is another reason why I’m not buying the expansion — and no I don’t like Revenant.

Cool…so feel free to stop posting here then. Glad to see you go.

@op: I think people need to realize that these elite specs aren’t supposed to give every profession a new role they didn’t have before.

I also think that ANet did right by going with another melee weapon that keeps thief as the high-risk high-reward class with an active defense. While other classes get a lot of passive junk, thieves are getting active abilities that play more to a high skill play style.

From a role, it’s not radically different, but it is stylistically different and will also give some love to whirl finishers.

Also, personally, I like the Donatello-esque style. <3 TMNT

Ahh, yea, after seeing the in-game numbers, I’d be very surprised if the AA is actually that weak at launch.

Ok, totally not following how people think this is lower DPS than sword, but I haven’t looked at the numbers from the in game link. This is what I’m seeing from the tooltips shown on Dulfy compared to the numbers for sword on the wiki:
Staff
AA 1 – 314 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 2 – 329 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 3 – 4x 656 dmg, 1 sec cast

Sword
AA 1: 269 dmg, no cast
AA 2: 269 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 3: 437 dmg, 1/2 sec cast

Now, the after cast of these abilities may throw things off, but I’m not seeing sword as the winner here.

And either way…who knows what the damage will actually be, especially when considering how much the other elite specializations have changed.

The is actually the first time I’ve really been truly hyped for HoT. This specialization looks amazing so far.

Also, I think the AA is better Han what people are giving it credit for since it has higher DPS than sword while also bringing a whirl and 4 vuln.
Dust strike is the only skill that may be underwhelming, but everything else is solid.

The lack of stealth is also a bit curious, but it doesn’t look like it’s really needed.

I can’t see replacing sb with this in conquest, but this may be very strong for stronghold.

As to the elite, I could see approaching an enemy resizing one of them downed allies, then using the first two parts of the chain to interrupt and knock then away, then stomping the downed enemy with part 3. That would be epic!

Blind if you have to, but if you want to play thief well, don’t rely on winning 1v1s. Get to other existing fights quickly and outnumber the enemy.

Honestly, I don’t see a single legitimate reason why it shouldn’t be a role. When done well, it wins games and makes MVP in World Tournament Series.

Amazing job on this birthday present! Thank you ArenaNet!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Wanted to pop in and say that you did fight premades a handful of times, but there was an almost equal amount of 3+2’s you fought as well. You also had some 4-queues on your team. There are many ways matches can be made, and you can’t always trust the party check.

There are some changes we are exploring that would further reduce the number of uneven roster sizes in matches, but nothing concrete on that yet.

Every time I see a red post on a thread that’s clearly a QQ about matchmaking, I click on it as fast as I can.

I love seeing people making excuses get owned by devs. =P

Considering just how many blast finishers that engis have that DON’T knock back, it really seems petty to get worked up over this.

I mean, I think a lot of people are really seeing this molehill as a mountain…

Thief is one of those classes that is very radically different depending on who plays it. It’s easily the worst and easily the best player on a team.

People that try to play the class like a brawler, constantly looking for fights to jump are probably pretty prevalent among those calling thieves under powered.

Players that are strategic, good at watching the map, and always perfectly timed with their +1s on fights are kings of turning the tides in games.

Toker is a prime example of the latter.

So, I’m going through Fractals in order with a group of friends and our next one to hit is level 39 with the Last Laugh instability. This one seems to be known as one of the (if not the) worst ones. In addition to any advice people have, I have a few questions:

1 – Does stability work to prevent the knockback?
2 – Do evades work?
3 – Can it be blinded?
4 – Does it help to have more people with ranged dps spread out?

ellesee.8297:

You’d think after 3 years we could see some variety but I guess that’s just wishful thinking!

Yea, I think you’ve gotten spoiled from playing engi. Most classes haven’t had jack for variety in builds.

Even now for engi, we may still be reliant on the explosives line, but the meta build is very different than pre june 23rd.

Elixir cele can still be ok, but swap the cele for soldier amulet and you’ll be fine.

It’s a minor knockback, not a launch. Hardly worth your frustration.

P.s. If they do PvE right in HoT, it’ll be something you’ll be glad to have.

I’d say a big factor for kits vs elixir is enemy team comp. if you’re against an enemy team with warrior and/or necromancer, then elixir can be useful against Lich/rampage/plague forms with good use of moa.

On the other hand, if the enemy team has a lot of ranged opponents and you’re worried about them perching to rain down damage, then the tool kit magnet pull is ideal (but you’ll have to be sneaky with it or it just gets dodged).

I’d also say that elixir is better vs high Condi teams, whereas kits gives you an additional tool to escape burst (gear shield).

gokitten spoilers…

Sagat.3285:

Not my opinion or belief but what I get from my PvP environment:

1)Cele d/d ele
2)Power PU Mesmer
3)Chronomancer
4)Condition PU mesmer
5)Burn guard

To me fighting other necros can get really frustrating sometimes.

This…except for burn guard. They can be annoying, but don’t deserve to be on the same list with the rest of those.

I think the tournament scene for GW2 is definitely growing and the OP pointed out a lot of improvements that I also liked.

I would say, however, that I still think that we need a good recap video with highlights for those of us who can’t spend hours watching it live at the crack of dawn. =P

Here’s what I’m enjoying so far:

Stronghold – Still love it. I wish the ability for people to jump in and out of doors to kill NPCs was addressed from last time, but this game type is still really awesome. I just want to say that I really appreciate the PvP devs stepping outside of Conquest and doing something as risky as this. I think it’s paying off.

Reaper – The feel of this specialization is pretty great. I’m not usually a huge necro fan, mechanics-wise, but I really enjoyed Reaper. The GS could use some love, but I think if feedback is taken like it was with Rev in the last beta test, it should be much better next time.

While I didn’t get into a lot of stuff with the current beta, it’s mostly because of 1) that I don’t want to get too spoiled on story stuff and 2) that the elite specializations I am most interested in are yet to come. However, I’ve been really impressed with how this beta has been handled. I love the gear options for beta characters and multiple beta character slots. Thank you for this!