Correct, I know they can fix it, but while things stay the course, Shiro is just gonna pigeon hole kids into one build.
That’s not a profession-specific thing. Every class has a “Pidgeon-holed” build for PvE. It’s called the meta. The solution will be from content that can’t be just burned through with Zerker builds.
Also, this isn’t a given for PvP. Plenty of PvP builds aren’t centered around power-based DPS.
k to be fair they spouted every 10 seconds that the various reveals and what not were subject to change. So calling people liars is a bit unfair. NOTE I also want the range that we were told we’d get.
Fine, but “subject to change” is quite different from “we changed idea and you won’t get any of those as baseline; oh, and we removed them entirely, so you can’t get them at all”.
Not really. The only way it’s different is the same way that saying you own a dog is different from saying you own a specific breed of dog.
If you read too far into what they said and were dissapointed, the it’s no fault of theirs.
My suggestion:
Change trait to 10% damage increase and buff the base damage of all physical skills except Rampage.I think it’s great that Rampage is seeing some use since it’s a skill that really captures the feel of a rampaging warrior (as opposed to lol shoutbow), but it does need to get toned down a bit.
Honestly instead of changing the trait (and nerf possibility other physical builds) I’d simply remove physical form rampage.
Basically like Leech, not classified.
In this way you don’t touch Rampage skills and its own power and you don’t modify other stuff.
So…you liked it better when no one used Rampage? Because if you remove the trait’s effect, then it’s in the same place it was before the patch.
And as I mentioned, you can buff the base damage of non-rampage physical skills so that you don’t harm builds that use physical skills at all (aside from Ramage, of course).
My suggestion:
Change trait to 10% damage increase and buff the base damage of all physical skills except Rampage.
I think it’s great that Rampage is seeing some use since it’s a skill that really captures the feel of a rampaging warrior (as opposed to lol shoutbow), but it does need to get toned down a bit.
EU has a few teams at the top which are all of roughly equal skill. In order to win, they have to continually innovate and improve.
NA doesn’t have much competition for the top spot. That stagnation has blunted the enthusiasm. NA does have a pretty active scene with the Academy Gaming and AspectGG tournaments.
Yup, that’s why you’ll find more people playing specialized roles in EU, like bunker guard instead of everyone trying to run a hybrid that does a little of everything.
I live in NA, but when it comes to interesting PvP: EU > NA.
Soldier – wuot for so tank?
Mesmers.
It’s also more of a Hambow-like role with a bigger focus on CC since you don’t have to disengage or pop a defensive cooldown everything someone looks at you.
I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.
For the sake of curiousness, what do Engi’s offer in downed cleaves that tops that of Warriors and Guardians? It’s hard to imagine an Engi going anywhere near the damage these two classes can produce in team fights.
Poison and blind at the same time and you can cleave from a distance.
Yea, I like bomb kit, but even if they fixed this, I can’t say I’m a fan of the way the bomb kit looks now.
What? No.
Queue times can be adjusted by a number of issues and forcing players into a game type they don’t want to play isn’t the right fix. If anything, you’ll frustrate players and lower the overall player base even more.
It’s really common to see Soldier Engineers playing extremely well and being an asset to their team, on EU. I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.
Well, everything you described can be done by a soldier’s engi as well (well, the cleave is weaker).
I can understand the argument that a D/D ele can do most of what a soldier’s engi can just as well if not better, but marauder engi is really in the same spot compared to other meta zerker builds like mesmer/thief/zerk war.
When played right, Mesmer are absolute beasts, but it’s funny how many people are now rolling mesmers to try and take advantage of this. I wish I had a dollar for every time I went against a Mesmer that was just mindlessly spamming interrupts randomly.
The one good thing I have to do with the current imbalance is that it’s at least on builds with more complex mechanics, which is a step above overturned healing signet hambow and knock back spamming turret builds.
Hmm…are you sure it’s a bug? It looks a bit ambiguous to me. I mean maybe that’s an intended graphic. =P
For WvW, I’d recommend Wolfineer. For sPvP, Teldo has some good stuff as does Jebro (UnityJebro).
Yea, haven’t played revenant this beta, but I remember 100% swiftness just from mace mh and the Jalis road alone.
I’d say that generally any good conquest build is solid, but you’ll want some stability and CC in just about anything you run with.
I’m not really sold on a healing-centric build, but I wouldn’t discount a good bunker guard either.
Guardians shouldn’t be able to channel mist essence while immune from Renewed Focus. Please adjust to fix this. Thanks.
First of all, there’s no reason to ever kick someone out of PvE content because of their class. If this is happening it’s either 1) not really because of your class or 2) because the group really doesn’t understand how little of a difference class makes (even necro can speed through content just fine).
In WvW, just learn to use the mortar kit. Check out http://www.wolfineer.com/ for more on this.
In sPvP, it’s not your class keeping you from doing well. A good recent example of a top tier group running with engi is TCG.
If you want to do well at this game, the first step is to stop looking for excuses and start finding solutions.
(edited by Dahkeus.8243)
@ the point out about on range of other rifle skills – Fair enough, I can see the help on those, but personally, I don’t see them as really that necessary.
Even now, Rev. Hammer is 1,200 range
Please, any Dev. respond to thatAre we going to get the 1,200 range or stuck with this?
You have a 1,500 range AoE 100% projectile finisher auto attack weapon…
so is everyone else enjoying killing revenants in the game ?
how many of them are in hotjoin servers ?
i just woke up on this fine saturday over here at gmt +8:00still no time to play guild wars 2 yet though.
I’ve been queueing for Stronghold primarily and I get 1, maybe 2 a match tops.
Yea, this really has to change, especially since something like a staff ele can pop out, start channeling a meteor shower, then lightning flash back through the door, which is pretty much a 100% unavoidable destruction of your NPCs.
I also think there needs to be a cooldown on going through the door, similar to the teleporter on Stronghold. As it is now, defending players just run back and forth through the door to pick off guards, then hide and heal.
The treb buffs are nice…but I still don’t see them as being worth using in most situations. The reason for this is their placement. It takes too long to get to them and if you want to have any chance of reaching them before enemies get there, then you pretty much have to forego the use of your supply.
I think celestial amulets would be fine if other classes were built around doing everything. The problem is the game isn’t built around that at all and elementalist is the only one who can do everything.
Maybe it’s more of an elementalist balance problem with have insane amounts of boon stacking, burning being still incredibly strong, and having insane amounts of healing.
Being jack of all trades is fine, but being a king of all trades is not.
That IS a problem, but the reverse is also true: celestial amulet is the only thing that made eles viable again after 1 year of being the worst class after all the nerfs. And celestial is still the only viable amulet choice for elementalists in pvp.
No matter what spec or function, eles will always need vitality and toughness because they have the worst of both base stats and no real active defense skills, and they always need condition damage and power and crit and ferocity because they don’t have condition weapons or power weapons, all of their stuff does basically all the things, only far worse than other classes by default – then celestial stats come and make everything good or even too good (the latter is mostly the burning though right now).
An ele with zerker or marauder amulet just explodes in pvp, with no stealth or blocks or something to survive (what little active defense they have in focus and cantrips has the longest CDs of all classes). The same is true for all amulets that don’t give toughness + vitality while also offering enough offensive.
Yea, any nerfs to ele need to be very, very careful since they were in such a bad spot before cele. From a design perspective, the stats of cele are wonderful for eles and make for very interesting hybrid gameplay on a class that be very complex.
However, they’re still overtuned and need to be adjusted.
How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…
Yea, pretty much the conclusion I think a lot of people are coming to, particularly since only 1 class is really worth calling OP while using a cele amulet right now (ele).
Engineers are balanced at best with cele (some might argue underpowered), but even TCG’s engineer ran with Soldier’s over Cele in the last EU tourney and shoutbow is pretty a shadow of its former self post-patch.
I think you might have misunderstood him because of his poor english.
The way that I read this, is that OP believes Celestial Amulet is Overpowered, claiming it is competitive with Zerker and Marauder in terms of damage, but allows the user to have defense as well.This was arguably relatively true prior to the June 23rd patch.
In my opinion, there really ought to be more variants (particularly for condition builds) similar to Marauder, mostly specialized, but splashing in a fourth statline for the justification of more stats over the baseline 3000, (marauders is 3220, from what I remember).
Ahh, well then I guess there aren’t quite as many people coming to that conclusion (yet) as I originally though, lol!
Right the short run from their base to archer spawn easily abused, esp droping two supply you only start with one.
If they’re pushing hard enough to drop a significant amount of supply, then you’re not going to be able to abuse this, lol.
How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…
Yea, pretty much the conclusion I think a lot of people are coming to, particularly since only 1 class is really worth calling OP while using a cele amulet right now (ele).
Engineers are balanced at best with cele (some might argue underpowered), but even TCG’s engineer ran with Soldier’s over Cele in the last EU tourney and shoutbow is pretty a shadow of its former self post-patch.
Well celestial engi is pretty much dead right now, and so is non-zerker warrior, leaving eles and ironically necros as the best cele classes right now.
I’m glad that mesmer is good because it really was unviable for a long time because of thieves. Condition ranger has seen some very limited use but I do believe it can work.
I think a lot of cele engis really need to give Soldier’s ammy a shot. Check out Bigzan on TCG in the recent EU ESL tourney for an idea of how well it can work.
They just need to rebalance the entire game, all the skills and all the traits.
You may want to check out the July 23rd patch notes…cuz that’s prettying what they just did, lol.
Not being able to play hotjoin while waiting for a tournament queue pop is my single biggest gripe with PVP since it was changed. Downtime isn’t fun, yo!
Yea, but 4 v 5s are worse and that change significantly reduced them.
In game tournaments? Sure.
Solo queue doesn’t need to return. Current system is fine and more flexible. People just lie to hi I that the other team is always a premade and that they’re always on the team with random pugs.
Leaderboards would be nce to have back, but I’m sure they will be and how’s not the time for that. Too many post-path bugs/imbalance.
Would definitely love to have more ranks to work for, but that may be tricky to implement for people who have been 80 for over a year.
You can still queue from anywhere, but ya, HotM can suck to be stuck in. Map chat there is particularly bad and it could really do to have a jumping puzzle or something like that added.
As for the ESports stuff, I think the biggest problem is that they were never really advertised well and the coverage is really sparse. There’s no highlight reels or coverage on what happened, so if you miss the stream or don’t have the time to sit through The entire thing, than it’s a pain in the kitten to follow.
First of all, thanks for this.
However, this trait really confuses me. The devs argued that the reason that movement abilities were no longer to be affected by swiftness was to prevent things like players jumping out of maps with things like rocket boots…
…then they announced this trait on the same Ready Up. So, basically, if you want to break out of a map, only an engineer can do it now and you just need to get hit 5 times first.
Yea, the logic is kinda hard to follow with this. I’d say that elixirs only count as things that apply to you, but that wouldn’t account for the Elixir U toolbelt ability or Acid Bomb. My best guess is that either 1) it’s a bug or 2) the devs just decided that 3 elixirs on the EG would be op in tandem with HGH.
Meh, I don’t see any need for a range change. There’s no need to automata I from range since your DPS is crud without blunderbuss or jump shot anyways. If you want to hit something from range, use the Mortar Kit for a higher Dps attack that also gives AOE.
So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.
If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.
With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.
I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.
Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.Edited to respond to Morwath:
If Ele can only dish out damage, they’d never have been problematic in the first place, because most classes can do the same.
It is the fact that you can never kill them if they trait and play it right that leads to the most problems. And the reason why you can’t kill them is because of the new trait system that grant permanent protection on hit, on aura, auto proc aura for auto CC and auto chill, auto proc boons, immune to crit that counters any burst, etc, that allows Ele to live forever, while simultaneously dish out damages with the new abusive burning damage. Not to mention the sigil abuse (bleed/poison or might spamming) by doing their normal rotation which is actually easier than most people claimed to be.
With a class like ele that has more buttons and cooldowns than ele class (except engi with full kits), I think they’re fine with a few passive traits, lol.
That being said, I agree that the effectiveness of these traits is beyond what they should be, which is the core of the balance issue.
Yea, flamethrower Condi is solid for open world, but jades will probably be more effective for tagging mobs in big events with lots of mobs. You can Condi burst pretty quickly with Incendiay Ammo and the Incindiary Powder trait though.
I’d recommend doing something like HGH along with blasting fire fields for might and skipping juggernaut for IP though. You can stack a good bit of might with an elixir (Elixir U would probably be a good choice) and the elixir gun. Use 4 and 5 on EG then swap to flamethrower. You can press weapon swap mid air after using EG 4 if you don’t want to leap. Mortar’s not a bad elite for it either since mortar 5 is another elixir.
(edited by Dahkeus.8243)
Right and as I said, so long as a class is a tank and damage dealer, celestial is here to stay. With the changes to traits, there’s a reason why Warrior Shoutbow doesn’t exist anymore. That’s a different story with Eles, though.
But it’s ok to have a hybrid damage dealer/tank with cele amulet, as long as it doesn’t make pure damage dealers and/or pure bunkers irrelevant. Right now, there’s only one class doing that…which indicates that this is a class problem, not an amulet one.
Funny how people think that a build needs to do damage like pre-fix grenade barrage to be op. Yea, it’s scary when there’s big burst damage, but classes like ele that can do everything better than most builds in one build go unnoticed just because they don’t 1-shot everyone.
The high skilled players have picked up on this though. That’s wh the biggest indication of this imbalance will be the quiet addition of more eles into high end comps, even though the loudest cries about OP builds will be here on the forums for things like thieves and glass cannon builds.
Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.
Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.
We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.
Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.
Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.
Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.
Amazing.
At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?
Thanks.
The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.
If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.
If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.
Agreed with this. I really hunk a Mesmer does what a thief did better now (at least until ele is nerfed).
@ Phokus: Cele really isn’t the issue anymore. Shout warrior is a shadow of it’s former self and even cele engi is arguably weaker than pre-patch. Ele is the only build that really dominates in cele amulet right now.
Yea…this is a bit ridiculous…
Bombs still have the incorrect range. I’m peeved that bugs like this are not given priority over nerfs being made.
Bug fixes =/= nerfs.
Unless you think that the reduction from a 90 second cd to a 10 second cd without any mention from devs or patch notes was a completely legitimate intended change…
Where did I say that the AMR BUG fix was not a BUGfix? Where did I even mention it? The fact remains there have been nerfs to not just engi abilities but other classes as well which have been given priority over bug fixes.
Whoa buddy, take a breath and go hug someone you love. It’ll do ya some good.
You didn’t specifically say the AMR bug, but since there have been 0 nerfs to engis since the patch dropped, it was a pretty safe assumption. Care to elaborate?
@ coglin: You…do realize that trying to police a thread (without being a moderator) really just derails the thread more than just ignoring off topic posts, right? Just take the free bump and get over it.
As for the runes, I still don’t see the post-nerf lyssa runes as being worth it for most builds. Mokittenoes let you get as much uptime as possible on the 6 set bonus, but the 45 sec cd is still kinda long.
The biggest reason I’d not pick up Lyssa over alternatives is due to the precision stat on it. Yea, precision can be nice for ensuring procs like IA, but power is a better stat for power builds and condition damage is a better stat for condition builds.
If I wanted reduction on conditions, I’d go with Hoelbrak runes. They don’t remove conditions, but the reduction applies to all conditions, which means you’re not tied to RNG for survival.
Bombs still have the incorrect range. I’m peeved that bugs like this are not given priority over nerfs being made.
Bug fixes =/= nerfs.
Unless you think that the reduction from a 90 second cd to a 10 second cd without any mention from devs or patch notes was a completely legitimate intended change…
Just a reminder: If you find a bug, report it. Don’t just post it here. If it’s not reported, it won’t get fixed.
I haven’t been in game yet to try anything…but what you’re describing doesn’t sound like a “cheat” or “bug”. If the projectile speed is supposed to be increased, the trajectory should be shallower unless you think that engineers and change gravity to make their grenades arc downward faster than normal, lol.
Eh, face it: They call it a rifle, but looking at the skills, it’s really more like a shotgun.
I’m not able to log in until later today, but can anyone check to see if Acid Bomb’s leap distance is still reduced by chill? I submitted this as a bug after the 23rd patch, but didn’t see a fix listed in the notes today.
Ouch, looks like we have a 90 second on AMR now. I’m seriously considering autodefense bomb dispenser now (running rifle build). Bleh…
I’d say mortar for sure:
- With the right CC and timing, the orbital strike is great, particularly in conquest. It also gives you a decent ranged AoE option, which is great for team fights in both sPvP and WvW.
- Even if you don’t plan on camping it for long, it allows you to drop some extra pressure from afar before getting in range of a fight.
- Finally, it gives great options for dealing with downed opponents. The poison field slows enemy rez and the blind field allows you to land stomps against guards, engis, wars, etc.