Guild Wars 2

They took away the sigil of generosity?

How ironic…

If it weren’t for Bloodstone Dust, I wouldn’t give this a second thought…

Muchacho.2390:

Dahkeus.8243:

One build on what is generally considered the weakest class in sPvP may be a counter to one of the strongest classes in sPvP.

Works for me.

Necromancer the strongest class in sPvP? That is certainly not the necro, probably bunker guard (most stabil spec since launch)… And condi specs were only strong because of the condiburst+ fear (Which, be the way, is stupid… condis should be more for a sustain spec then a burst spec). Play the typical power necro spec and you will see how strong we are outside from condi specs…

(ok we also have mm but that too ai dependent)

“…one of the strongest classes” is not “the strongest class”

And yes, power builds aren’t as good as condi builds for necros in PvP…so should we buff warriors since a condi warrior build is weak? Your logic with that point doesn’t add up.

Lindbur.2537:

25 really isn’t hard to get if you farm champs.

25 isn’t really hard if you’ve done anything aside from being afk in LA for the past few days.

Not only do you get a ton of experience for doing just about everything, but the skill point scrolls drop everywhere as well.

One build on what is generally considered the weakest class in sPvP may be a counter to one of the strongest classes in sPvP.

Works for me.

Looks like Jon didn’t get a fix for the 1h sword…

MatthijsB.4731:

Shadow Arts V—Infusion of Shadow: Increased the amount of initiative gained to 2, but only when entering stealth.

Atleast they increased the amount of initiative gain to 2.

But…it was already a 2 initiative gain…

Kite them into a group of allies.

I really like this idea. I get so many of these things that I never get around to using.

Actually, I forgot to mention Elementalists. A staff ele can work really well as ranged: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/85568-lh-is-the-new-bearbow-the-real-staff-dps-build-for-manly-men/

Engineer is the only class that you can maximize your potential with while staying ranged (using the grenade kit). Necros may be an exception with axes…but necros are a tough sell on a lot of groups.

Mesmers can do ok with a greatsword, but really, they’re best when they use melee with a sword. However, not only does the sword deal more dps than a greatsword on its own, but you’re also forced to either lose dps by either sitting at max range with the GS and missing out on boons or by sitting in range of boons and missing out on the damage from extra range.

Remember that boons have a range of 600, meaning that if you’re too far away from melee, you’ll lose a lot of effectiveness.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I will say it again although peeps usually don’t seem to agree with me. My main was a thief but I recently switched to engi cus its more fun to play. What I felt was brokenly op about theif was shadow refuge. Almost every single thief in the entire game uses this utility. It is a 90+ percent chance get out of jail free card every minute. I don’t understand why other people can’t come to the same conclusion that if almost every single player that has ever played thief uses this one utility there is a problem with it. Other utilities from other classes are popular yes but I have never ran into a single thief ever that doesn’t use shadow refuge. Its op fix it.

Shadow’s Refuge is so successful because so many players have no idea how easy it is to counter. I mean, I wish I had a dollar for every time I used Shadow’s Refuge and had a huge group of players just stare at it, decide that there was nothing to do, and walk away.

Here’s a tip for anyone that may be one of those players:
If you can see the edges of that red ring when an enemy thief uses Shadow’s Refuge, then he’s still in that spot. Also, if you knock him out before that circle is gone, not only does it de-stealth him, but it will also put the revealed debuff on him.

So, when you see that red circle, do one or all of the following:
– Use AoE damage. You will either down the thief or pressure them enough to run out of the stealth.
– Run through and auto-attack. When you see your auto attack move to the next part of the chain, that means you hit the thief. Keep moving to areas where your auto attack chains, because that’s where the thief is and if you do this enough, you will down the thief.
– Use AoE knockbacks/fears. Mesmers, break out that Greatsword and hit #5. Guardians, pop that shield bubble. Warriors, pull out your hammer to use Staggering Blow. Engineers, use your shield for Magnetic Inversion. Necros, throw down a Reaper’s Mark. Etc., etc. You get the point.

There are a ton of MMOs on the market and MMO players switch games more than ever nowadays, so this doesn’t surprise me.

If you look at the MMO market right now, you’ll find tons of games that do a few things really well, even though there are a lot of other aspects that are mediocre or worse. This makes for an environment ripe for players with an eye for the greener grass to be lured to the other side.

Ask most experienced dungeon runners on what they think about the usefulness of healing support and you’ll likely to have them tell you to ignore healing support in favor of might stacking, condi removal, projectile reflect, or simply to bring more personal dps.

And really, this isn’t a big surprise since damage in so many difficult dungeons is generally very spikey and avoidable by dodges. This means that health bars are often either near full or gone. Providing healing in these situations, unfortunately, doesn’t do a lot of good.

However, I think that healing could be made valuable again with the right changes to enemies and environments in PvE. I believe that if more damage came in smaller chunks and came in more frequently, then there would be value to healing. Look at the Krait Tower in Kessex Hills, for instance. With the new debuff, there is a lot of degeneration overall and results in players that spend more time with health bars that are partially empty. If there were more areas like this, then I think that there would be a broader range of good builds to use in PvE since it would make a lot of builds more viable.

Tl;dr – Damage in PvE is too spikey, so abilities that heal allies are often wasted. This could be helped if enemies either did more degen damage or hit more frequently with less powerful hits.

Burst them, then run circles around them.

Oh, and don’t pop your Basilisk venom until you’ve gotten rid of their Aegis.

dusanyu.4057:

“For the Panini!!”

for the longest time i thought the centaurs were hungry to die for a sandwich.

I always heard it as “For the cremini!” and thought they were just really excited about their mushrooms, lol!

What better way to celebrate the season than by alienating your friends. =/

ArenaNet, please consider making more inclusive events in the future. Thanks.

Thief AoE isn’t that bad, even if the engi is better. The short bow allows you to spam blast finishers (great for WvW when stacking) and is good for hitting targets on top of walls.

However, when deciding between the classes, I would ask which you like better:
Do you prefer fast-paced gameplay with an emphasis on positioning and movement or do you prefer more tactical gameplay with an emphasis on choosing the right ability for the right situation?

If you prefer the former, go with Thief. If you prefer the latter, go Engi.

Dual.8953:

I did some testing with the code, it seems the skill may have a higher heal potential then any of our other heals. This is assuming the heal in the spec is a single hit instead of overall.
Skelk Venom
6332 overall if per hit
1583 if overall
Withdraw
4683
Hide in Shadow
5805
Signet of Malice
3275
Anti-Toxin Spray
4275
This was on my Cleric’s set (you may ask why a thief has a Cleric’s set, short answer, experimenting. I have a Knight’s, Valkyrie’s, Berserker’s, Carrion and Soldier’s set too)

In theory, that sounds great, until you consider the low HP pool of thieves.

Because of this, we do better with smaller heals on shorter cooldowns. This is one of the many aspects of Withdraw that is awesome.

Well, it make sense to have some waypoints contested to reduce the likelihood of waypointing to a spot where you get instantly attacked and potentially killed while you’re still in a loading screen…but I agree. Orr is just ridiculous.

reikken.4961:

use sneak attack/unload and take more damage than you’re dishing out
sounds fun

Yea, I didn’t even think about that, but it’ll certainly hurt any attempted P/D build, which isn’t good news for anyone that wants to use venoms.

The Dec 10th changes seem to really push thieves more and more to either a D/D or D/P build.

I don’t think the venom heal is inherently bad. The issue comes from venom builds being inherently inferior to other options since they prevent players from bringing vital utilities.

They also are so reliant on traits to work well, that the trade-offs you have to deal with in a venom build are really more punishing than running something like a direct damage Critical Strikes build.

I’ve seen the word ‘grind’ thrown around a lot, but a lot of people are trying to counter the complaints on grind by talking about something different.

Not all grind is inherently bad. Having some extra cosmetic options such as skins and titles that require a grind is fine.

However, when you require a player to grind one aspect of the game in order to perform well in another area of the game, this is when the grind becomes a problem

Ex: Requiring players to grind open world champions to get crafting materials for gear needed for instanced Fractals or to stay competitive in WvW.

If I really dedicate my time into grinding and crafting instead of doing the content I enjoy (dungeons, fractals, and PvP) and I really push myself…

…maybe 1.

GW2 doesn’t need CC diminishing returns since CC durations are so short in the first place.

GOSU.9574:

In GW1 I played the first 2.5 years after release. I have no idea what you are talking about, must have come later.

Unless you are talking about elite capping, which wasn’t a grind at all.

Did something new like this come out with GW:EN? I played GW1 up until this and there was never any titles that I knew of that increased power.

Yes, there were a lot of titles that required a lot of work and getting all the elite skills required killing a lot of bosses…but this wasn’t repetitive work and is night and day from the champ farm runs that are all over GW2.

The only grinding in GW1 was really to get a very special armor design that had the same stats as all other max level gear and the areas you farmed for this were challenging…which is the complete opposite of constantly farming ridiculously easy content to get armor that makes you more powerful.

^ GW2 started off so well, but this is where they are going wrong.

Great guide! PvP community needs more people like this. =)

JonPeters.5630:

Dahkeus.8243:

Josh Davis.6015:

Way to go, Jon…making me look bad!

Aww, don’t be such a grouch! Oh wait…

As for the new heals, I’m sure this will be good for some classes, but on my thief, I feel like I already have some of the best heals in the game. It’s going to be tough to add something that will appeal to me more than Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

P.s. I’d rather see more Elites added than either heals or utilities.

Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!

Sorry Jon, but I don’t see how this heal will mix anything up.
1 ) It has the longest CD of any thief heal (even with Quick Venoms)
2 ) Potential loss of heal on miss/block/etc.
3 ) No additional effect, such as condi cleanse, evade, etc.

I mean, I know it has some advantages (largest heal if all hits land, group heal), but neither of these are needed. Thieves have a low HP pool and therefore benefit more from frequent smaller heals and group healing is one of the weakest utilities in the game due to current mechanics.

If this was to coincide with some other venom buffs that made venom builds viable…I’d probably still use Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad you put additional heal skills in the game and I appreciate the work you and the rest of your team has done with GW2, but I think this one really misses the mark.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Dahkeus.8243:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Dahkeus.8243:

If this was a goal I could work towards by playing the aspects of this game I enjoy, then this would be a slight bother.

However, since this requires me to 1 ) join the champ trains for any decent gold earning and 2 ) craft, this is again something that pushes me away from the game and leaves me disinterested in contributing with gem purchases.

The #1 reason I left WoW was the gear grind and this is something that ANet has continually pushed on players here…

You are in no way required to champ farm, nor is it the only way to earn decent gold, nor do you have to purchase materials, you can obtain them yourself. And if crafting leaves u disinterested best not try any other MMO.

Excuses to exclude ascended armor all amount to “but i don’t wanna!”.

Plus it has been mentioned in a interview or preview that ascended armor will drop in fractals at some point.

Champ farming is required for the dragonite and even if it wasn’t, it’s still the fastest way to earn the gold. The time it would take to obtain all these materials without buying any is a terrible idea when you consider the cost/benefit aspect.

In other MMOs, you can often ignore crafting if you want…not sure what your point is there.

And if that’s the only excuse you can pull from these threads, I think you’re too biased to your own opinion to really look at what people are saying.

I don’t like Ascended gear because:
– The gear serves as an unnecessary roadblock to experiencing the content I bought the game for.
– The gear adds nothing to the play experience aside from being able to outperform people who have less time to invest in the game.
– The gear is a lame distraction from adding new and interesting content.
– The gear sets a precedent for a gear treadmill and I bought GW2 specifically to escape the gear treadmill in other MMOs.
– The other reasons mentioned before regarding what they are requiring to attain the gear.

I have made 3 ascended weapons and still have t7 mats coming out of my ears from just playing the game as I normally do. I have never touched that champ farming train. You are totally exaggerating on how hard and exclusive these materials as you can get them doing almost anything.

Stopped reading here since you seem to think that everyone has as much free time as you do or enjoys grinding as much as you do.

Why is ascended armor being made available through crafting? Why not have it as a drop from Fractals or purchasable through fractal relics?

Mireles Lore.5942:

Dahkeus.8243:

If this was a goal I could work towards by playing the aspects of this game I enjoy, then this would be a slight bother.

However, since this requires me to 1 ) join the champ trains for any decent gold earning and 2 ) craft, this is again something that pushes me away from the game and leaves me disinterested in contributing with gem purchases.

The #1 reason I left WoW was the gear grind and this is something that ANet has continually pushed on players here…

You are in no way required to champ farm, nor is it the only way to earn decent gold, nor do you have to purchase materials, you can obtain them yourself. And if crafting leaves u disinterested best not try any other MMO.

Excuses to exclude ascended armor all amount to “but i don’t wanna!”.

Plus it has been mentioned in a interview or preview that ascended armor will drop in fractals at some point.

Champ farming is required for the dragonite and even if it wasn’t, it’s still the fastest way to earn the gold. The time it would take to obtain all these materials without buying any is a terrible idea when you consider the cost/benefit aspect.

In other MMOs, you can often ignore crafting if you want…not sure what your point is there.

And if that’s the only excuse you can pull from these threads, I think you’re too biased to your own opinion to really look at what people are saying.

I don’t like Ascended gear because:
– The gear serves as an unnecessary roadblock to experiencing the content I bought the game for.
– The gear adds nothing to the play experience aside from being able to outperform people who have less time to invest in the game.
– The gear is a lame distraction from adding new and interesting content.
– The gear sets a precedent for a gear treadmill and I bought GW2 specifically to escape the gear treadmill in other MMOs.
– The other reasons mentioned before regarding what they are requiring to attain the gear.

Belldandy.7284:

Low rank players keeping on capping then leaving the cap resulting to a fail team work because they still realized that getting a Personal highscore means that they are the best. This is why I hate mixing low ranks to those high rank players.

You know…you could always educate people and tell them in a friendly manner about the changes instead of just playing the whole game while they go about it in the wrong way due to ignorance.

Just don’t do like so many people do and point it out in a condescending manner. That tends to just pit people against you, regardless of how true your words are. =P

If this was a goal I could work towards by playing the aspects of this game I enjoy, then this would be a slight bother.

However, since this requires me to 1 ) join the champ trains for any decent gold earning and 2 ) craft, this is again something that pushes me away from the game and leaves me disinterested in contributing with gem purchases.

The #1 reason I left WoW was the gear grind and this is something that ANet has continually pushed on players here…

If they would have added a condi cleanse or stun break to the skill, it may have gotten me to consider venoms.

Tiger.7506:

Skill > Gear.
You can play all part of the game with exotic.
ANet got burned by players acquiring exotics too quickly
“ascended gear is to be a bridge between exotic and Legendary”

That’s becoming an outdated truth.

Fractals and WvW are becoming exceptions.

And really, you can clear all the dungeons wearing clerics gear, but finding a group to take you becomes a lot harder when you’re not wearing something like berserkers. The same concept will apply for ascended gear. Just because you can clear the dungeon in your current gear doesn’t mean people will have the patience to clear it at the slower pace you will set.

EvilSardine.9635:

Dahkeus.8243:

While you’re working on that long term goal, those top players will be smashing face in WvW.

Nope.

If you cannot beat an opponent in a duel while he’s in exotics and you’re in rares for example, you will not beat him if you upgraded to exotics. It’s not a big difference. There’s too many factors in a duel between players (skill, builds, all the conditions, buffs, runes, sigils, certain class advantages, foods, maintenance oils, etc.) and a few more percent in damage will not win you a fight against an equally skilled opponent.

An opponent in WvW running sigil of the night (if it happens to be night time) would do more damage than someone in full ascended if they don’t run that sigil for whatever reason.

If I upgraded TWO of my exotic weapons to ascended, I would get the following as an upgrade:

8 power
.3% crit chance
0% crit damage.

In the end, only bad players will blame a loss on an opponent having ascended gear.

A) You’re ignoring weapon damage.
B) You’re ignoring players also having higher stats on 12 other weapon slots.

Meluna.1764:

Everyone is bickering about ascended gear.

And I’m just sitting here, silently squeeing in delight that the bell choir game will be back =D

It’s still in the game on the trading post.

Paponzi.1637:

…finally leaving all the whining about ascended gear behind. In few days all of the ascended equipment will be out, and in few weeks this debate will finally start to slow down and disappear for good.
I’m sure people will find something else to complain about, but for now i wish they released all the ascended equip at once, so that people didn’t feel like needing to complain and repeat themselves every few months.

And ANet never pushed players into a gear treadmill EVAR AGAIN!

THEEEE END!

/end sarcasm

Seriously, though, I’m sure you will see this quiet down. That happens when players leave. That’s why I don’t discuss grievances about WoW on their forums anymore.

Proven.2854:

Venoms would be fine if they just lowered their cooldowns (except for the elite) and then made it so that you could only have one venom at a time. Using a new venom would then replace any older venom on your weapon.

Even that wouldn’t really work well because filling up your utilities with venoms means that you sacrifice:
– Stun breaker
– Condi removal
– Gap closer
– Shadow’s Refuge

If venoms could at least get a stun breaker and a condi removal, they might be able to competed with other options. It looks like this new heal will provide neither.

Lamont.5973:

Essence Snow.3194:

Hmm long term goal eh? Let’s take in consideration how long it’ll take to gear up everyone’s 5 char slots that came with the game.

Is there even enough time in the life cycle of this game to get this gear?

I’ve been staying out of the whole “grind” discussion while I waited to give ascended a chance. But with the last few updates I’m getting really discouraged. On GW1 I had two accounts (16) characters I think. And the nice thing was that I could work on getting my obsidian armor for one or two toons and still know that I could gear up the rest of my characters with maximum stats for effective and enjoyable game play. Players also had to work together and make sure their builds meshed for most of the dungeons and more elite areas.

But, having crafted 6 ascended weapons (3 each for my 2 main toons), I am looking at my other toons thinking it will be pure misery to craft even one more of those stupid pink things. So the rest of my toons will pretty much stay in the barn. And now I’m gonna have to craft 6 pieces of ascended armor PER TOON after raising the required crafting disciplines.

Meanwhile the combat system is still clunky and clumsy, the story line is boring, the living story gave us villains flatter than a Nebraska landscape, the missions are dull, so unchallenging a 3 year old could do them, and unrepeatable, and most of the new content can be completed in a couple of days easy. Plus there is absolutely no need to mesh builds in the vast majority of the dungeons and “elite” areas. And on top of that crafting ascended is artificially time gated to slow things down.

This game has essentially become: join zerg, read book while waiting for boss, set skill 1 on repeat, read book till boss is dead, pick up loot and move to next boss, check some chests for emperial shards, go craft some ascended crap.

Frankly, I’m not looking forward to this wintersday and so I think for the first time in 7 years, my holiday plans will not include guild wars.

You summed up the beauty of the gear system in GW1 perfectly. That’s what I was looking forward to when I bought GW2.

Orpheal.8263:

Dahkeus.8243:

JonPeters.5630:

Dahkeus.8243:

Josh Davis.6015:

Way to go, Jon…making me look bad!

Aww, don’t be such a grouch! Oh wait…

As for the new heals, I’m sure this will be good for some classes, but on my thief, I feel like I already have some of the best heals in the game. It’s going to be tough to add something that will appeal to me more than Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

P.s. I’d rather see more Elites added than either heals or utilities.

Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!

Ok, so, the rumored heal is a venom. If this rumor is false, then I guess I’ll eat my words, but if it really is a venom…I’ll never use it. Here’s why:

A venom heal only really makes sense on a venom build and venom builds are just weak. You have to sacrifice good utility to take venoms (AoE stealth, stun breaks, etc.) and in return, your attacks do condition damage.

If you want me to start considering venoms, then put some decent utility on them like a stun break or a gap closer. Or at least boost their damage so they can compete with a D/D damage build in PvE.

Thats the reason why I keep suggestign that Anet should finally redesign the thief by improvign them with INTEGRATED Venoms that can be used with F2-F4, to let them also have an influence on the weapon skills, being duration based and not hit based like the venoms work currently.

That way would thiefs become finally alot more unpredictable and would receive alot more build diversity. It would be such an easy way for Anet to make thiefs more nostalgic through implementing more old GW1 assassin skilsl within the through the venoms influenced changing weapon skills.

It would give also Anet the option to completely remove all of the current obsolete venom utility skills and especially the useless elite venom to replace them with more useful new utitlity/elite skilsl for the thief.

You know…I like that idea.

Essence Snow.3194:

Hmm long term goal eh? Let’s take in consideration how long it’ll take to gear up everyone’s 5 char slots that came with the game.

Is there even enough time in the life cycle of this game to get this gear?

The problem is that there is already such a disparity in the player base in terms of how much time people can dedicate to grinding out weapons/gear. I mean, I have a friend who has at least 4 legendaries, but I barely have 2 ascended pieces.

There will be plenty of people who have full ascended armor in the first week, but you’ll also see plenty of people that still don’t have a set 6 months later.

Instead of putting in prestigeous, hard to attain armor skins (and no, T3 cultural doesn’t count. Ascended stuff costs much, much more than a full set of that), they’re adding in a set that boosts stats.

JonPeters.5630:

Dahkeus.8243:

Josh Davis.6015:

Way to go, Jon…making me look bad!

Aww, don’t be such a grouch! Oh wait…

As for the new heals, I’m sure this will be good for some classes, but on my thief, I feel like I already have some of the best heals in the game. It’s going to be tough to add something that will appeal to me more than Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

P.s. I’d rather see more Elites added than either heals or utilities.

Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!

Ok, so, the rumored heal is a venom. If this rumor is false, then I guess I’ll eat my words, but if it really is a venom…I’ll never use it. Here’s why:

A venom heal only really makes sense on a venom build and venom builds are just weak. You have to sacrifice good utility to take venoms (AoE stealth, stun breaks, etc.) and in return, your attacks do condition damage.

If you want me to start considering venoms, then put some decent utility on them like a stun break or a gap closer. Or at least boost their damage so they can compete with a D/D damage build in PvE.

Here’s the kicker: ANet basically said that with GW2, people that have time to grind out stuff will grind it out. People that don’t have that time (assuming due to having a job), will buy gems. I, generally, have fallen into that second category on plenty of occasions. I still generally don’t spend more than 15-20 bucks in gems a month.

The problem is, the amount of gems I would have to throw at gear to catch up with ascended gear and be on a level playing field is way, way, way beyond what I’m willing to buy.

…so it’s more tempting to say @#$% it and just stop trying. There’s plenty of other good MMOs out there and more on the horizon. Besides, I just got a bunch of games from all the Steam sales too.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It’s supposed to be a long term goal. Since there is no content in the game that requires ascended gear just take your time and have fun making it. You will not be alone.

Sure the top 5% of players will probably be able to make it right off the bat, but there is no need to do it that fast.

While you’re working on that long term goal, those top players will be smashing face in WvW.

I just barely got a second weapon crafted for my Guardian (the one I use in Fractals). Really, I should level Artificing to get a Scepter/Focus so that I’ll have agony resist when I’m ranged (looking at you Jade Maw), but really, I’d still rather have ascended daggers for my thief to keep up in WvW.

But I couldn’t keep at the grind necessary for this. I can’t bring myself to follow the mind-numbing auto-attack champ zergs to grind what I need for more ascended stuff and sPvP certainly hasn’t helped on this endeavor either. Yes, there will be a gold reward starting Dec 10th, but if you can earn gold doing sPvP at a rate anywhere near what you need to get ascended gear, it’ll be a near miracle.

…and now ascended gear hits Dec 10th. I can’t even comprehend crafting 6 pieces of ascended gear after going broke for 2 weapons (still more than what many people have).

I love this game…but this is depressing. =(

Hype.8032:

Until you’re ready to drop the training wheels and have a fair fight, I’d suggest you work on your teamwork. In a 2v1 you should never get stomped. Start ressing your downed teammate and daze the thief (F3) before the stomp finishes. Torch really is strong against thieves even though the phantasm sucks so bad. Staff in general is pretty great too, phase retreat will be a lot stronger than the thief’s sword return after Dec 10th. Chaos storm and Chaos armor are great to help with backstabs.

A d/d thief perma stealthing off of your clones is pretty cheesy but you’re playing with a PU mesmer (oh so cheesy) so honestly anything the thief does should be considered fair game.

If someone goes down in a 2 v 1 fight, it’s really not that hard for the thief to get the stomp off since they can stealth and blind in one instant move, then start a stomp that is only countered by an AoE knockback/stun. If the downed person is a mesmer, they can’t even teleport away unless they get an enemy to target for their #2 ability.

There are two counters that a mesmer has to a thief stomping their buddy: 1) Greatsword #5 (I know I said to never use this for anything but for Shadow’s Refuge, but this is the one exception) and 2) Diversion.

News flash: Every server “blobs” in WvW since that’s pretty much what it’s all about. Yea, there are some clever tricks to win some towers, but in the end, it’s all about who has the biggest and most blobs for the longest.

And all servers have a healthy size of both bullying jerks and fair/friendly players. You will find tons of both on all servers and even players who are generally friendly will still have their bad days (and vice versa). Trying to stereotype another server is really pretty silly.

Yea, a staff mesmer and condition mesmers overall are very hard to counter. I find that generally I either win a fight against a thief quickly or I don’t win it at all if I’m against a power mesmer.

Also, if you want to get a good feel for how a good D/D thief plays in WvW, check out some of the videos by Yishis. He does a great job of explaining what he’s doing in the video as it happens step by step.

Here’s a link to his latest video. Skip to 1:37 to see a fight involving a mesmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Here’s a couple things that may make a big difference:

First of all, with any D/D thief, their main way of stealthing is through hitting you with their Cloak and Dagger melee attack. If you dodge this attack, blind it, block it, etc., they will lose the initiative and will not stealth. This will give them 3-4 seconds of stealth (depending on the spec). Most WvW thieves will have the talent that gives them 4 seconds.

When a thief hits you with CnD, they will do one of 3 things: 1) they will backstab immediately for quick burst, 2) they will wait until the stealth is almost over to benefit from health regen while stealth or simply to get into position, or 3) they will wait until the stealth ends and will CnD as soon as the stealth is over (to prevent getting revealed debuff) then will backstab immediately.

The second and third option pretty much mean that when you get hit with CnD, you can count to about 3, then dodge. If you time this right, you will dodge either their backstab and their stealth will run out or they will miss CnD and lose initiative. This can easily make or break a fight.

If a thief is facing you, then they will usually CnD, then wait to get behind you before backstabbing. Because of this, you can generally rely on using this dodge method when a thief cloaks while facing you. If they backstab immediately, they won’t hit very hard.

Another big thing is watching for when a thief uses Shadow’s Refuge. This is the giant red circle that stealths them. You should always, always save your Greatsword knockback for this and as soon as you see a thief use this ability, use your knockback into this circle before the edges disappear. This is because the thief must remain in that circle until the edges disappear to maintain the stealth. If they go outside that circle before the edges disappear, they will lose stealth and get the revealed debuff. If they stay in it until the edges disappear, they will have a very, very long duration stealth.

Also, as Advent mentioned, a thief will often use CnD off your clones. Because of this, abilities, such as Crippling Dissipation, will be very effective against these types of thieves. Your best bet at winning a fight against a D/D thief is often by keeping them at range. A D/D thief can’t stealth without hitting you unless they use a long cooldown such as their heal, shadow’s refuge, or blinding powder, as opposed to a D/P thief, which can stealth by leaping through the blind field their pistol offhand drops. Keeping a D/D thief crippled and kiting out their stealth is often very effective since they will have often have to burn valuable cooldowns or re-stealth off your clones instead of you.

Finally, don’t forget that you can still hit your enemy while they are stealthed. Because of this, Diversion can sometimes be better than Distortion when you’re trying to avoid getting backstabbed by a cloaked thief as this will daze them and allow you to switch to playing offensively instead of just burning a cooldown while you stay defensive.

Hopefully that helps!