Guild Wars 2

robertul.3679:

Zerker war has 18k hp. A 20k will kill it. It will not do more damage than thief/ele.
Other classes are wanted, just not necro.

But you get 10-15% reduction just by heavy armor, it can survive it. And in a really offensive setup necro only has DS as an option, while warrior gets extra evade from GS and 2 blocks from off hand weapons. Mitigate damage >>>>>>>> eating damage.

And even if the average pug get the myth out of their head, that warrior damage is over everybody else DPS by a mile, its still a save choice. Durable, easy to use, gives good support and has nice damage. Why take a risk and get a [anything else]? Of course warriors still can be bad (full signet rifle warr <3), but thats another topic.

On topic: without any major overhaul necro will be subpar in pve. After getting new traits and / or skills, the balance will stand on its head and i wouldnt bet that our place in the “meta” would be better.

A zerker warr wont have 2400+ armor, its slightly more than 2100, while light armor classes have ~1800 (plus a few from traits). But thats true, that they get less damage as a heavy, which is not a problem with guardian, since they have low health, but with warrior its over the top.
But a zerker necro currently dont put any points in death magic to get a bit of armor bonus so they eat the full hit. Getting a 20k hit means you are dead, a warrior still can survive it. So when you run out of dodges, you need to use your bugged DS and pray to the god of rng to not die. With 18k hp and 12k DS theoriticaly you can eat a 42k hit. In reality 30k kills you.

Fear is a condition, thus it scales and will scale from condition damage.

Zaganna.6034:

Dalanor.5387:

As above mentioned by a few times, engi and ranger has some usefull stuff in their pocket, but the players usually (!!!) plays them are bad. God bless the bearbow.

As well the necro has its own good skill & tricks.

We should stop to cry and think we’re alone and the most hated profession by the others…We’re not the only ones.

Can you tell me one which isnt nerfed to the ground or overshadowed by at least one other class or kitten by game design?

Zaganna.6034:

Warrior, guardians (surprised?), mesmer, sometimes elementalist, thief only for the stealth meccanic…..But the others? Don’t make mistakes, Necros are not the most ignored and kicked profession in dungeon. We’re not alone.
Engi? I think is the profession less used by players. Ranger??? Really guys? you think that rangers have an easier time than Necromancer?….No they don’t.

As above mentioned by a few times, engi and ranger has some usefull stuff in their pocket, but the players usually (!!!) plays them are bad. God bless the bearbow.

Im sure this whole stacking stuff is intended. For example we run CoE today and one of the Alpha figths is in a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig room. And a big box is in the middle for no reason. I was like … “dude, why is it there?” “for stacking” “but thats just stupid” “yes, now grab that FGS and dps that kitten down”. Just sayin.

Nemesis, take a look at rangers. Not the bearbow, the competitive sword/wh build.
It gives aoe dmg bonus from frost spirit, precision bonus and has nice dps. Oh and it has a reliable blast finisher with high uptime fury. Not mentioning the sword cleaves, has a built in evade and with off hand dagger it has another evade. Well, the auto attack root is stupid, but you can used to it. See? Tiny thing can make something viable. Necro got .. nothing. Necromancer is bad in the current PvE environment.

Sorry, i need to jump in, before misinformation starts to spread again.
Our fear is not infinite as other classes think, but enough for a burst, but sadly fear has the most counters in this game namely:
*Stability
*Stunbreaker
*Condi removal (active / passive)
*Dodge
*Reduced condi duration
*Condi immunity

And if you can fear with Doom, mark, fear wall and corrupt at least once its still just 9 second (with 100% fear duration), which is still 1 second less then the WoW fear. :P

edit: forgot another counter

Wellcome Guang here!

Can you throw out actual numbers with the current meta builds, so the disbelievers actually can see how raw dps ranks amongst classes? Thanks!

And thats why we got nerfed in a week after Dhuumfire. Peoply whine instead of adapting, while we get a response from a dev (!) to learn to play.

Overkillengine.6084:

It’s not HP it’s life force.

HP refills upon the end of combat.

Life force…does not, and thus should not be balanced as having the same effectiveness as HP.

Say that to the whining non-necro players.)) Usually we get those excuses why we are op and we dont deserve any kind of fix or buff.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

someone asking for a necro in dungeons? HoTW?! this is just shocking…thieves could easily fill that role but oh well…

the only real place where necro’s special condition manipulation comes into play is at the tar elemental boss at Arah P1 where u could get into his burning aoe to get a 1 min burning on u just to send it back to the boss which easily maintains burning indefinitely…then again perma immobilize with warriors is better or even mesmers using arcane thievery to achieve the same.

Or get a guardian, press F1, voila perma burning.

Kiriakulos.1690:

I just hope that when they unify the balance forums we’ll be able to effectively scream at people misinformed about Necro survival and abilities and get our kitten together.
ANet won’t be able to have plausible deniability about our unhappines if we post in the same place as Warriors and Mesmers.

But we have an extra healthpool with 1 minute long chain fear and minions and dhuumfire and condispam and and and … you know the deal.
You are an OP noob condispammer necro, even if you use wells. Noobs will cry, necromancers adapt and noobs cry more.

Minors

- Gluttony: Not a bad trait, but it could see some improvement. Change it to +1% LF on all LF generating skill maybe or something like that.
- Last Gasp: Perfect trait, love it. The stunbreak part work in it too, so awesome.
- Strength of Undeath: As a GM minor it needs a little more oomph, it would be better as a 10% bonus.

Majors

I – Fear of Death: Niche trait, but it has some uses. I had it when farmed Deadeye, funny with a burn terror build in small areas.
II – Vital Persistence: Still dont know where can i use this, but since it had buffed it can be usefull sometimes.
III – Path of Midnight: Standard CDR, but why it isnt 20%? Make it happen!
IV – Spectral mastery: Good and simple.
V – Speed of Shadows: Agree with Bhawb. Remove it or rework it completely. The burst speed increase could replace SWalk in a well bomber build to run out from danger, who knows?
VI – Unyielding Blast: While its not a bad trait, my personal taste would love to see some changes. First of all i hate piercing attacks, so what if make it splash damage? Cap it to 3 targets like Fireball from ele staff or engi pistol#1. And increase the attack rate of Life blast please or make it hit more harder.

VII – Mark of Revival: As a “support” trait, related to revive i dont know why it is in this tree and weak as hell, so remove it. Yay, free space!
VIII – Near to Death: To be honest, i hate this trait. Not so long ago it get mentioned somewhere, that it holds back a lot of stuff in our balance imo, so personaly i would like to see it completely removed.
IX – Master of Terror: This trait enjoys my horrible amount of love. 10/10.
X – Soul Marks: Another interesting trait. Currently you go only for this far if you use a burn/terror build or you need stability. If you take the crit grandmaster, you wouldnt take this. Reworking Gluttony would help for staff users to generate LF and scepter needs an overhaul in LF generation anyway, sooo … remove it.

XI: Nope, nope, all of my nope +1 nope. Shade guys. Rework Shade and put it ingame. As a Master trait. No, seriously. Necromancers need Shade somehow.
XII: Great trait, opened up some builds and has some funny moments. Drop wells, pop DS, enjoy 100% crit chance and stuff just melting.

No rng / passive stuff, kkthxbai.
I cant remember who had the idea, but a trait (or make it default) that prevents you from high damage in a form of if you take greater damage then your X% of HP it will reduce your life force instead of regular health. So it absorbs high hits and you have enough regen and siphon to eat the smaller ones.

The first question was about phantasms (they get fury and have aoe regen sometimes, i dont know whats the mes meta right now) and other pets (ranger pets actually beefy, so it would be lovely to get bonus from them).

In PvE you wouldnt ever touch that line, except if you some kind of support necro, but thats a different story.
The problem stays the same, you still (can) get steamrolled against multiple enemies and cant escape. Making the leeching powerfull enough to scale up (scaling guys, scaling!) against 1v5 and not die in 2 second would be a good thing. OP until people get used to it, but could help us in the long run.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

This was by design. One problem we face with long cooldowns and reliance on life force generation is opponents can disengage, heal and buff up, then re-engage us in our weakened state without consequence. With life siphoning scaling with boons, we then gain additional sustain when that opponent re-engages us; potentially improving our survivability until our skills are off cooldown and/or we’ve generated more life force.

Here is where our design fails so hard. Devs said, as the fight gets longer, we got stronger, right? In reality this happens what you wrote. Actually we get weaker, because of long CD-s and the enemy simply re-engage and slap us to death.
How about, just a random idea, this whole siphoning idea get implemented in a similar way as Risen abominations get frenzy? We build up slowly stuff and as the fight goes longer the enemy must decide to gtfo or die. And it should linger around a while to avoid re-engage. Oh and Spite25 could be designed this way too. Mmmh, might stacks.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I am wondering:
If blind is changed to make all attacks miss untill the condition is removed, wether that would make the game more interesting and necro’s instant artrition?

That would make thieves broken.

And thats how balance works. Everything kittening up something else if you change it.

Would this count for every enemy or only against players?

How would it help against multiple non boon heavy enemies?

Mookzen.4583:

Plague form stability doesn’t even work properly I get CCd in it all the time.

Or it get removed. Thats why the elites needs pulsating stability. 1s/s would be unfair (oh man but i would love it), so 3s stability every 3 seconds maybe?

Thats doesnt fit in the design of the necro. However this …

I wonder why they force siphon on necro while other classes where it makes no sense get a heal on hit skill … And thats 5x stronger without any trait.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TheDevice.2751:

-Snip-

Then explain WHY it is that you CAN kill other classes then? surely if they out last us as you say we would be dead and they would be alive, yet i have plenty enough times killed people 1 Vs 1.

Is it not more dependent on your BUILD than anything else, if you go zerker then you lose all of that compared if you go tankier. You cant just say every class out lasts us, you have to say what build the Necromancer was using, what build the others are using.

Your sarcasm-o-meter broke down, didnt it?

Thats already in the video at the 22:12 mark.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute

Sub classes = traits + gear + weapons + utility skills
Here you go, you definied whats your class role. Sadly, the content and mechanics narrows the options (eg: Tequatl).

The wardrobe system is exactly the same as we have in pvp now, right? I see it only as another goal, which is completed and get forget.

Upgrading items for prestige looks like what you can do with the fractal capacitor is a nice idea, however we already overwhelmed with particle effects. And most of the prestige items and their materials can be bought from the TP ….

I could continue it for a while, but lets summarize it. The developers should fix fundamental problems which are ingame from day 1 instead of expanding on these broken features. If this comment gets your attention Chris, im gladly going in to a more detailed explanation.

the uprising.6317:

I really hope not, I am coming back from a long hiatus and leveling up is IMPOSSIBLE because no one plays the game anymore so DE’s are literally impossible to do, its probably more xp efficient to grind mobs than attempt DE’s.

So all you are doing is hearts, and if this is “endgame” then this is the most boring game ever made…

Thats clearly a learn to play issue. Look at your choosen class sub-forum and search or ask for advice with leveling, gear and traits.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Necro has 3 lives, and easily causes a train wreck of damage through conditions, and even power build.

Give them an escape/movement skill, and they’re even more op than they already are.

Do you even GW2 bro?

oh … my … god … that awesome! :’D

They said they wont implement new tier of gear, but legendary is in game since day 1 sooo … prepare for another farm.

spoj.9672:

Something I posted in another thread. Thought I would post it here.

I would like an ingame speed clear leaderboard and timer for dungeons and fractals. You could grant achievement points when a group clears a path in a bronze/silver/gold time. And the record times could be put into an official leaderboard on the website.

Its something that would appeal greatly to the higher end and more dedicated pve players (these are the type of players that stick around for the longest). It also gives others something to work towards to improve themselves and earn respect among other players. There shouldnt be any ingame reward changes for clearing a path in a certain time, to prevent elitism and blacklisting certain classes. It should simply be a leaderboard type thing with no ingame rewards apart from extra AP (maybe).

Add in a dps meter and i will be pleased too.

Just quoting, couldnt say better.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Personally, I think moving towards a pure HP model is going to be more difficult than some people imagine. Not without significant rework in the combat, skills and content systems.

For sure adding things like wardrobes, new skins and revamping rewards can help but ultimately people like to feel their character has evolved and moved on. Not just been able to wear prettier and shinier stuff.

This is where the weakness of GW2 becomes ever more apparent(certainly in PvE) where DPS is king and support and control are very much also rans.

Adding new skills, and methods of capture is indeed a great idea. However these skill are going to need to be useful if they are to move beyond the gotta get em all phase.

If they are DPS skills, people will expect them to be more powerful, if they are support/control skills people are going to expect them to be worth taking over the DPS meta.

All of which, unless content Is going to be trivialised even more will mean that content and encounters will need to be re-worked to ensure these new skills (especially support and control ones) are actually useful.

Basically, unless PvE is re-worked new skills are a temporary fix. An accelerant in the cycle of buff, nerf and power creep.

The other issue is that of build diversity and failure scenario’s. Thanks to a restricted skill set and focus on DPS there are only a few build for each class that are actually worth taking.

This issue is further compounded by the fact that stats are now linked to gear. If the current meta’s are changed to make others more worthwhile then all of those who ground for thousands of hours for ascended items are going to be furious and upset.

In order for build diversity to become available then really stats should be separated from gear(or at least have stats swappable) as really I don’t see an alternative.

There also needs to be a sense of jeopardy. Outside of a very few encounters it is impossible to fail content in a meaningful way. Fail a temple event, so what? either wait or hop to a server that has it open. Personal stories and dungeons are impossible to fail, only run out of time or money.

You can’t drive horizontal progression in a very largely fail free game., as nothing matters, nothing is at stake.

As to how to fix these issues. Then I would suggest:
Short term
+ Introduce more social stuff. Wardrobes, guild halls, more stuff that allows the community to do stuff together(and if we are being really radical take a long hard look at your back end server structure. It really does hold so many things back) – *Community drives longevity and fun, not content grind. *
+ Allow dynamic stat swapping on ascended items too. It would give a horizontal progression meaning to why they are there, and facilitate more build diversity.
+ Go back and play GW1. Look how that did content and horizontal progression. particularly skill capping, the UW and FoW areas. Basically look what worked there and do that

Long term:
+ Rework content to make support and control aspects needed
+ Introduce real consequences for failure in dungeons and instances.
+ Allow a degree of profession blurring. where you can use weapons and skills from other professions(Heck maybe ascension still works in the crystal desert and the reward for ascending is being able to utilise more weapons)

Basically. I feel the pve meta is stale, adding more of the same skills and content wont fix it. It feels to me as though GW2 needs to become GW2 2.0 to really evolve and move on. Every and anything is else is just treading water.

A whole chapter of GW1 was scrapped because it highlighted issues that were unsolvable in a GW1 context. It was a courageous decision and from it GW2 was born.

I feel now is the time to be courageous again if GW2 is to move beyond the trivial and temporary.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dalanor.5387:

You now the problem is that necro was advertised to be able lockdown opponents and keep them in fight, which isnt true ingame. Hell, did you ever see a dps guardian in WvW? It can port to the other side of the galaxy in 2 seconds. The guardian, a non-mobile class in full plate armor.
So its a bit frustrating to have 1 ability to chase something and that skill is so unreliable it hurts.

I pretty much take Spectral Grasp for this reason, in a mostly vein attempt to stop runners.

Oh i forgot SGrasp sorry. Then we have 2 unreliable skills.

You now the problem is that necro was advertised to be able lockdown opponents and keep them in fight, which isnt true ingame. Hell, did you ever see a dps guardian in WvW? It can port to the other side of the galaxy in 2 seconds. The guardian, a non-mobile class in full plate armor.
So its a bit frustrating to have 1 ability to chase something and that skill is so unreliable it hurts.

amiavamp.9785:

When the average player’s line of thinking is this (this is a warrior talking about berserker stance):

A while ago i checked in the warrior forums for funzies, but when i saw complaining everywhere and how unviable they are, meanwhile in reality they dominating both game modes … Im a bit speechless.
Oh and for the unnamed warrior: l2p.

Meglobob.8620:

Create a new character do personal story to level 10 get black lion key, can do this in under a hour.

Delete character rinse repeat…

Merry xmas.

With a staff ele it can be done in 25-30 minutes, just do personal story and nothing else until the lvl10 PS pops up. Complete it and enjoy your key.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Dalanor.5387:

lettucemode.3789:

C Hanson.4056:

-Ability to stomp those we attritionize to death:
Nope. Unless you want to waste a 3 minute cooldown on a very useful elite skill. (every class except necro has a consistent option for stomping downed players. That is not debatable.)

Shroudstomp still works as of this patch.

Using a glitch / exploit, i wouldnt say it works.

How is it a glitch/exploit? I’ve never really cared to take the stability trait to play around with this.

By abusing the data transfered to the server. Pressing 2 buttons simultaneusly isnt the right way to do this. You know, other classes just pop their invuln skill, walk there and pushing the finish button to stomp, while necro … not. You dont even have this option in DS, only by this trick.

Necromancers suffered and suffers now from more stupid things then this, so dont be rude with us.

“Forum Structure Changes

We will be making updated forum structure changes. We’ll be opening a new Profession Balance sub-forum, but merging/archiving some of the less used sub-forums. "

I wouldnt surprised if it means the deleting of Necro sub-forum.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

PS: I would like to note that the necro is the class that stays in combt the longest .. even without minions/conditions or any enemy near i can still take up to 40 seconds to get out of combat. (1.20 min my personal record)
apparently the system is based on replenishing your hp and endurance to full.

Things i experienced:
As a necro i have to travel twice the distance than any other profession i play to get out of combat.
This then takes me 4 times as long and god forbid an enemy still has a condition of me on them.

I don’t know how this in/out of combat system works. but i know it doesn’t work to the benefit of a necromncer.

Thanks for this, i always felt sooooo long with necro while i leave combat, meanwhile my warrior insta drops combat. Time for testing and bug reporting.

Bhawb.7408:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

On a similar note, I wonder how much complaining there would be right now about the necro if it was advertised to be walking artillery? Slow, somewhat easy to destroy, but if ignored will wreak havoc.

This is one path that the Necromancer should be able to take. This and the “advertised” Necro are not mutually exclusive, but should be reliant on how much you slot for damage, raw defense, or sustain.

Lack of options and build diversity, which is sadly not unique to the necro.
I wouldnt mind to be pigenholed if its a uniqe role for the necromancer, how the guardians does the bunkering job since release. And they are highly viable in both game modes.

Define end game. If he wants a raid once a week, get him to Tequatl. Once a week. Random loot, organized content, a lot of people etc.
Crafting is .. well .. if you dont want to make profit from it (is this even possible today?) or craft ascended, dont bother with it.
Ascended came out it would take a while he gets all the items.

On a serious note, i wouldnt force him. If he is interested by your stories about the game, he will follow. If not, let him play WoW or whatever he enjoy.

Changing the design would be easier, then making the necro a guardian attrition class, without the options that guardian sustain / attrition classes has.

Lol, thread moved … xD

I hope Anet make a necromancer skill with this name. Its a must!

lettucemode.3789:

C Hanson.4056:

-Ability to stomp those we attritionize to death:
Nope. Unless you want to waste a 3 minute cooldown on a very useful elite skill. (every class except necro has a consistent option for stomping downed players. That is not debatable.)

Shroudstomp still works as of this patch.

Using a glitch / exploit, i wouldnt say it works.

Sorry queen for the last post. Constructive mode ON:

- Proir the spectral nerf necro was fine against focus fire as you can see in the twitch link above. Currently the SArmor and SWalk has an ICD and makes them pointless against multiple opponents. Sometimes i feel it weak against fast hitting too.

- Not only the block removed and flow through to our normal HP, its bugged as i found out here.

- Theoretically we have an awesome uptime on stability, but in reality its bad. Only available if you spend 30 points in a trait line where you wouldnt heavily invest and for that you need to choose two mandatory traits for that. Mind you, DS isnt a stunbreaker.

- After the insane nerf of putrid mark (cough bug cough fix it cough), necro loss a huge condi removal potencial, especially in group enviroment so its an issue in all game modes.

- Ehm, yeah, DS skills needs some tweak. Dark path as a gap closer / chase ability just sucks hard and make our non-existent mobility and lockdown ability (lol) more pathetic.

And on a side note, i would love to see some discussion here from non necro players too, because as i see above, everybody see our DS overpowered, meanwhile it disappears in 1 second ingame (from 100% life force do insta downed, yeah it happens still). I know, im a noob, but if more experienced players get this up every other day, then its an issue i think.

ps: fix the skill lockout asap!

Can i say “l2p” or wait for it until a dev comes? Oh sorry, only necromancers need to adapt, not other classes.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Balefire.7592:

The only things we really lack are mobility (not an issue by design) and crowd-control avoidance.

Except it IS an issue. We get into a fight it is either win or die….
What other class is forced to stay IN combat even if they want to run with have nothing. Which wouldn’t be so bad but when you combine that with issues the class has – such as DeathShroud taking 2-3 seconds for heals and utilities to reappear after being nuked out of DeathShroud in SECONDS thanks to burst….

Sure we have other things like Siphons…Oh wait, they are pathetically weak that the only real reason to take them is on a Minion Master build. Yet not everyone runs them, so the whole idea of Siphons are simply SO underpowered for those that use it without being Minion Masters due to how strong it could be for Minion Masters.

The class is in a real mess in my opinion, it has some potential but dye to the fact that it would take TIME and EFFORT to actually getting the class up to level with the others means nothing will happen.

Mobility only matters in WvW. In most PvE content mobility is pointless and in sPvP you have point capture (and you shouldnt go to far point anyway).

Using spectral recall leaves your equipment in the spectral world.

Dadnir.5038:

You gave me a good Idea…

why not change all fear effect in : force your target to /laugh This should still interrupt but poor and saddened guys won’t flee anymore.

Only available after you purchased the Scarecrow skin from the gem store.

Only if you stack Precision to get more critical.