Guild Wars 2

Andele.1306:

You know we used to have a Phylactery when in lich form, it was about a 40k hp object with like no armor that would make you immortal in lich form (its still here http://www.guildhead.com/search/lich#traits)

I followed the game way before beta, but i cant even remember that existed. Its unbelievable.
You know, the game is 1 year old now, players got skilled (if they will to even adapt, Dhummfire ;D), so it would make sense to go back to early usefull ideas.
This and Shade and all that stuff before release … im amazed and sad at the same time.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Why not change dhuumfire to agony…

There isn’t AR in sPvP.

Just reroll to warrior. ;D I just noticed, this dont even have an ICD. :’D

Bhawb.7408:

CursedShaitan.9720:

So 6 days and they are still pretending this didn’t happen? No response no nothing?

And this is a surprise… why?

He doesnt spent enough trait points in the Depression line to unlock the Pessimist GM trait.

The boons>conditions situation reminded me for an older idea.
Since we have really good chill uptime even if we dont trait for it, what if we get a new trait for it? While your enemy is chilled reduce its attack speed, like a reverse quickness.
If that trait in a good but not unreachable place it will do the following:
1. As a condi spec, it will force your enemy to cleanse, so you can unload your stuff after that. Just a side note, condi burst should be only A option, not THE option.
2. As a power / whatever spec it will lock down your enemy and help to avoid your face slapped to death. Maybe this will be noticable only in PvE.

Maybe gives this condition a duration and ICD to the trait so it prevents to overwhelm your opponent with this unremovable condition even if he / she cleansed chill already.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Even in the best possible circumstances, the actual impact is pretty low. The devs should not be considering that for balance.

+1

Thanks for the explanation!
Now i went for pve wonderland and tried it with the same 30 points spent. I got a tiny bit more healing than your math (23300 aoe + dagger).
Without Vampiric precision its 17500 + a bit less from dagger, which is still not that impressive.
If i dont have much experience in the game (which is true, im a pvp noob), i still dont know how this is a problem, when you blow all your CD-s at once. Getting 4-5k heal from one target just low with this investment (skills + traits).
Sorry Bhawb, appreciate your effort to made this comment and all that stuff, but i still cant understand the logic behind this, IF this is what holds back the developers to bring up siphoning.

edit: typo

Bhawb.7408:

Dadnir.5038:

snip

I already said that it has 0 to do with being viable. But the sheer ability to be able to deal 22k damage and heal for the same in 10 seconds OFF OF TRAITS ONLY is too good. I can have a fire sigil too, all of those wells are taking effect; all of that is besides the point.

The point is that semi-infinite scaling is bad because of that situation. That isn’t even “fully” optimized, it is literally just rolling your face over the keyboard once with the right traits equipping and 5 idiots standing around in them. But with such scenarios possible, why would they buff us? A 50% buff allows us to deal 33k AoE damage and healing, again solely from 30 traiting. Do you think even a 50% increase to siphons would bring them up to remotely good enough?

As it is now, siphons will never be more than viable in a single build; the one build that makes the most use of them. Every other build won’t be able to proc as often, and will therefore have subpar healing from them. That is the entire point of why I did that math.

Can you explain how did you get this 22k damage from siphons? As i above mentioned, i came up with about half of that in the pvp lobby.

Hot fix one week later:
Damage reduced on wells and marks by 80%.

Forsaker.9213:

Dalanor.5387:

djooceboxblast.9876:

Cast time on doom would be a welcomed change – no im not joking! That ability is beyond broken and needs a more obvious tell!

So you dont maining a necro, arent you?

hahaha good jk , ofc doom need atleast 0.5 ct

If they change other classes defense mechanism to get cast times too, im fine with it.

vicious.5683:

projectile

Nonononono, big no. Even if its fast, just no.

Andele.1306:

Dalanor.5387:

ICD on Life transfers LF gain.
Staff#1 dont pierce.
Lower stack / uptime on Blood is power.
Cast time on Doom.

You know the sad part is

3 out of these 4 actually existed…

Really? :’DDD Made my day … not.

djooceboxblast.9876:

Cast time on doom would be a welcomed change – no im not joking! That ability is beyond broken and needs a more obvious tell!

So you dont maining a necro, arent you?

ICD on Life transfers LF gain.
Staff#1 dont pierce.
Lower stack / uptime on Blood is power.
Cast time on Doom.

1. You cant cleanse with staff 4 for months now and against one shoting mechanics, regen means nothing.
2. Null field does both wells job in the same time with lower CD.
3. And thief does it without a 50s CD well and a 180s CD elite in aoe.
4. Meanwhile you ramp up condies and press Epi, your warriors cleaved everything to death already. At least it happened with me all the time.
5. Well i should agree with you, but personnaly i dislike this signet. When the old Aetherblade dungeon was introduced i used this for extra removal, but when it randomly pulls a cripple and not a 10-20 stack bleed from your team mate, it sucks. So thanks, but no.

Balefire.7592:

Only after typing this did I realize that Guardians are essentially better at lockdown than we are, but they also have better mobility…

Dont forget about hammer and Line of warding.

But the problem with that is the same as now. Soft CC with conditions not so effective and people just flying around with teleports or passive condi removal / immunity makes this even worse.

Stx.4857:

The biggest issue Necro’s have keeping targets in combat is that many mobility skills like Warrior Greatsword and thief roll skills remove roots, chills, and cripples. So I feel that if Necro is truly meant to keep targets in combat that they need to root them with a non-condition type of debuff.

Thats why i made this topic. Im glad you understand it and agree with it.

The aoe pull actually exist already, one of the risen mobs use it, cant remember which.
Reworking DS5 as i described shouldnt be that hard too, but thats true that even small changes takes weeks or months to go live.

About spectral grasp. While it need a rework (what not actually?) i still want to see something built in to DS. As you wrote too, locking down enemies would be one of our core feature so making this with only 1 utility wouldnt make sense or it would be mandatory. And that happened a few months ago with Signet of Undeath and Corrupt boon, which got nerfed too.

If we take inspiration from other games, i would love to see something similar to Hades ulti from Smite. Its an aoe pulsating pull with damage and can reduce enemy protection too.

Spectral grasp built in DS aww, i wish it isnt a utility skill. The most fun thing in WvW is pulling down people from walls to the meatgrinder. If it dont bugs out.

spoj.9672:

Necro dps is good but the lack of cleave makes it a pain for anything other than bosses.

The only reason why we dont have any cleave is the massive amount of aoe we have i think. With power builds you have warhorn, wells and DS. As a condibuild you have 2 aoe skills with S/D, staff is an aoe fest and also Epidemic. Is this reason justifies the lack of cleave or not?

ps: wtb dps meter

So both of you want to make a chain skill from DS2, making it similar to thieves Infiltrator strike (sword#2), but marking the enemy with it. Great! However the current form of Dark path is unreliable because of the projectile. Making it a ground targeted teleport would be cool and make the changes you mentioned, would it make it OP? Basicly it would be 2 teleport (no counter except CC) with an added chill.

@Nekretaal:
Your second idea looks good. How about that keeping the current animation (shadow tentacle thingy catches 5 target), which stays on for X seconds on the targets. While its active it pulses and apply 1 stack of torment and IF the target leaves the 600 range its immobilized. While in an 1v1 situation it wouldnt be bad, against more players and without an ICD it could be powerfull. Imagine, running into the crowd, pop this and run back (or port with SWalk), the enemy got perma immobilized basicly until it wears of. Maybe an added max range would solve this which is greater than 1200, so classes with high mobility wont catch you 1 second later.

Since its a core problem with the class i wouldnt solve the problem with new weapons, but a few leap wouldnt hurt us later.

SWalk is fine, just harder to use than some “press button and escape from a 10v1 situation without any harm” skill that a few class has.

Go on, release the necro imagination!

This question just poped out of my head.
How would you fix the problem in our ability to lockdown or chase opponents? Since its fails really hard, even with the implementation of Tainted shackles (imo its just a cover condition, no more) and soft CC (cripple, chill, immob) is often not enough or simply useless.
In theory, necro would be the guy who is starts the fight with you and either you or the necro dies, but cant escape. Oh well, maybe thieves could since they are all about mobility and high damage, but when they arent play some one shotting ninja spec, they should be catched and beaten to death.
So the base idea is this:

• unique mechanic only for the necro
• superior lockdown, no counter (to avoid the situation like with fear)
• maybe just single target

Please be contstructive.

When encounters contains slow hitting bosses most of the time and a lot of projectile attacks, which is totally mitigated by 2 classes (guardian, mesmer) and add in the stupidly high scaling of berserker builds, especially on a warrior with great and unique(!) offensive support with banners, PvE is trivialized.
Thief is great when you need to skip mobs, but thats another problem that you are able to skip part of the content without punishing (the new TA path is a nice change).
Ele has also high dps build with staff, stupidly big numbers in aoe and the crowd favorite Fiery greatsword, which is bugged. I hope Anet knows about the bug, because 200k dps shouldnt be intended.
Ranger can bring Frost spirit for increased party damage and Spotter for extra precision, but this class already has a really bad reputation and nobody wants them.
Engi, while being an awesome jack of all trades provide nothing unique, but their vuln stacking ability with granade spec is awesome. Sadly, a few other class can do it well enough.
And of course, the necro, the leeching, selfish profession which gives nothing to the group, while not providing superior dps. Since control is non-existant and support is more than enough with boons and reflects, necro is subpar in PvE. Necromaners should weaken their enemies to get the advantage and kill them slowly. I give an example why this is the problem. First of all, conditions are bad. Slow ramp up time, low damage, condi cap. Secondly, non-damaging conditions, except vulnerability are almost useless. Necro has (had?) the best weakness uptime, but as an offensive condition it has an aoe cap thus it defends you from 5 enemies and provides 25% damage reduction in theory. Actually its less than 25%. While Protection gives you 33% damage reduction from infinite amount of enemies. And guardian can maintain it with 100% uptime. While dealing great damage. While healing. While reflecting. While being awesome and shiny.
Necromancers need options, tools and design which isnt against exactly how the game actually works. And not balacing around non-existant situations which wont ever happen.

ps: Sorry for the wall of text.

I’ve tried this well siphon thingy now in the pvp lobby and the numbers arent that high.

I took only Bloodthirst, Ritual mastery and Vampiric rituals. Vampiric came from 15 point minor of course. With these traits i got 42 damage and 40 heal from Vampiric, 20 damage and 65 heal from Vampiric rituals per tick. (1899 power, 360 healing)

Wells ticks 28 times (WoB 10, else 6 times), proccing both vampiric traits while Locust swarm (WH#5) proccing only Vampiric 10 times. Abracadabra, this means 2156 damage and 3340 heal on one target under ~10 seconds. What did i miss?

Even at aoe this isnt that brutal and you give up 30 points for nearly nothing even if you take Vampiric precision, but in that case you need reasonable Precision to procc it. I admit the damage portion would be higher with more power, but Anet balancing around PvP anyway.
In PvE aoe situations arent problem, not even in dungeons. WvW is still unbalanced and when 5 opponent is at the same place as you in sPvP, then there is something already wrong, good luck for your 5v1.

Sorry if i wasnt contructive or misscalculated something in a stupid way. :/

Andele.1306:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Andele.1306:

spoj.9672:

Necro subforum reminds me of dungeon subforum. No dev responses. Neglected forever and ever. :<

Only that necro forums are less toxic since everyone cleanses the poison duration with putrid mark! Oh wait…

Beautiful!

Another one:
Well at least we only have a chance to flame on critical stupidity unlike guardians which get it every 5th thread.

But they can share it to keep it up permanently.

ronpierce.2760:

Dalanor.5387:

Balance 101, never compare one class to another, especially if one is the warrior.

While I can agree with this (actually) based on many skills, when it comes to healing, you very well can relate heals. Especially if both are high based HP classes. And also, a heal on a 28-35 second cooldown for 5.2k base (if all goes well). on a necromancer is terribad.

Yeah, the numbers are horribly low and the ICD just kills the whole concept. But something like the warriors Healing surge would be lovely. Big burst heal, based on LF and as a spectral it could increase the amount of LF you already have. That concept is much easier to balance imo, than this signet when our own class mechanic decrease its value even if the skill in its beta version.
I would love to know why devs decided to nerf the hell out of SoV. What situation / build make this decision correct?

Balance 101, never compare one class to another, especially if one is the warrior.

Scarran.9845:

When a Warriors hundred blades can hit for 30k-40k damage which cleaves every 8 seconds then your not going to stand a chance.

Corrected for you.
And this isnt OP because of the ~3s root (quickness says hi), but the 2k aoe bleed on Mark of blood is unacceptable. Yeah. Makes sense.

Azure.8670:

nemesis hybrid build is working great for me. Whats everyone using these days? most pugs I see are running straight condis

Using mainly my guardian or warrior. Sometimes i get my mesmer, but im so noob with it that i dont want to be a dead weight for the group.
Oh, you asked about necro … Well, its on the shelf, covered in tears and sorrow.

Same as the charr armor problem. Charr is the least played race, so the armor clipping and general aesthetic problems with that race isnt that important by Anet, but exactly these problems makes it the least played race.

And im still impressed how calm you are Bhawb. Respect. /bow

Maybe its more beneficial to Anet to make a few classes unviable thus people start to reroll. That way they dont need resources to balance S tier classes and all the fancy skins from the gem store are greatswords anyway so … yeah … $$

Thats the sad part, when one stupid single buff, the food outheals your own classmechanic with trait investments ….

Spoj The Second.7680:

They were probably afraid of active + fiery rush for nuking bosses and passive while tanking 50 mesmer clones for imortality. Hardly worth overnerfing it for…

The 25 stack should handle the problem of FGS / charge and i cant feel sorry for mesmers. Spam da clonz on me fo da healz!

That awesome 1.5 second CD reduction! Pve power necro will rise and shine.

Reduces recharge on warhorn skills and increases their effect durations.
Effectiveness increased: 50%
Recharge reduced: 15%

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

snip

Make it in a warrior theme and i bet with 50 gold these mechanics will be ingame in 1-2 months.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The cast time on the active is so long that you can easily revive 2 people before it even goes off. Not sure why anyone would use the active on this either.

It was a mandatory skill for pvp along with Corrupt boon, so Anet made them unviable. Somebody should tell them that nerfing=/=making build diversity.

Both the active and passive got a 1 second ICD and the active is on the target for 5 seconds. If you cant use all the 25 stacks … bad for you. And the passive wont do any damage anymore, just heals.

Why Chill of Death? Training of the Master wouldnt be better if you use the golem?

Bweaty.9187:

Jan 10th 2014 Patch Notes:
- Necro will no longer receive healing from other players. This is to stop frustration of accidentally wasting healing on DeathShrouded Necro’s.
- All necro self healing will be converted to damage with a 0.004% co-efficient. This was a bug, but is now a working as intended feature.

Feb 10th 2014 Big Ballance Patch Notes:
-Tooltips updated to show no heals

March 11th
Updated the character creation screen to match up the existing professions, since the latest update the deletion of Necromancer doesn’t show up. Now working as intended.

Another skill that got hit with the nerfbat in the sake of “PvP” …
Reduce the cast time to 1 second in PvE/WvW and to 2 second for PvP.
Oh, i forgot we dont deserve it … Warriors must be the best at even ressing.
Battle Standard is way more better and it doesnt matter that its an elite. And let not forgot about Fast Healer.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So now it will heal you when you take damage? That makes it completely useless.

It worked that way even in the datamined version, but that at least dealt damage to the opponent too.

• faster revives (i mean FAST, even in combat (bonus revive speed if you ress in DS, but this already requires a fix))
• negating / reducing ress sickness
• ressing with more hp
• HP linking so you use your own team mates as meatshields
• HP siphon from allies for more damage either via might or direct dmg
• party wide siphon +1 (guardians already are able to share F2)

Just throwing out ideas you know …

Muchacho.2390:

Mmhhh i agree with that, so more damage output would help necros in pve?

Devs stated that warriors should take and make the most damage, so group utility or / and unique mechanics would be better.

Define attrition please. Low damage class with sustain so it can outlive the opponent and kill it slowly?

If you care about skins and aesthetics: human, sylvar or norn.
If you are a PvP guy: asura.
If you want to WvW: asura (size) or norn (wolf elite).
Nothing from above and / or PvE: all five race is good.

ps: Charr hidden pistol is truly nice in PvE sometimes.

How necro balance works.

With a dagger warhron build which is better?

• Keep the signet for passive bonus
• Use it for get a bonus from Target the Weak?

I think for shorter fights (under 10-15s) the later is better, but im not sure in that either.

Wells are a pulsating aoe field where you drop them (around you by default or where you place them with a trait), while marks are like traps. The enemy step on it and triggers its effect. So they are like apple and orange.

Lily.1935:

Imagine if our utility skills actually did something different while in death shroud then they did while outside of it?

Like engi toolbelt skills?