“We’ve added some new skins/items to the game. We know you’d enjoy actually earning them through various in game feats of skill/intelligence/perseverance, but we’re going to save you the trouble of actually playing the game. Use your credit card to buy gems, and you can obtain the new items instantly! Isn’t that fun? Aren’t you glad we did this?”
TY ANet for making a shop instead of a game.
Disgusting.
So, do you find the concept of choice disgusting, or do you find your own weak-willed-ness that leads to you buying things when you could have played for them instead disgusting?
I like how you deliberately stayed away from the “earn it through in game feats” part.
Try again, discuss that, and I’ll take you seriously.
I’ll respond to your own personal statement that had nothing to do with my comment though:
You may enjoy grinding the same old parts of the game that existed since release, to grind up 60g+ gold each week, then visiting the Gem Store, then rinse and repeat for months and months on end. But you’re not everyone.
Not everyone wants to play a game to do daily chores for pocket money, then visit the shops.
Repeat: This is a game. Not work/a job.
Well said. Apparently I’m being “duped” for preferring to pay a flat rate for a game which provides access to everything from the start.
I’m really not liking this cash shop trend or micro transactions in general.
$180 a year is worth not having to see “Buy Now!” buttons in my interface and not having 80% of game development devoted to the cash shop. Besides, that’s a fifth of what I spend at Starbucks per year, but that $200 provides way more pleasure and fun.
BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?
Ok… then why are you here? If you love everything about being duped each month and hate everything about never having to pay for anything, please, by all means, return to the game you love and leave the game you hate!
Oh I’m not “duped” into anything because I don’t have a problem with paying for a service I value. Namely a game that is focused on in game content rather than cash shop content.
Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.
You’re right, it would be so much better if people had no choice but to pay almost $200/year just to access to the game they bought for $60. Putting 100% of content behind an expensive pay wall is far superior to making it 98% free.
It’s like people think sub games mail you everything for free just for paying the sub and don’t realize you can trade gold for gems. By all means, boycott MMOs if you’re kinky for sub games that don’t ask a game company to earn their fee, it just expects people to get addicted and justifying to themselves why they need to keep paying to keep playing.
$180 a year is worth not having to see “Buy Now!” buttons in my interface and not having 80% of game development devoted to the cash shop. Besides, that’s a fifth of what I spend at Starbucks per year, but that $200 provides way more pleasure and fun.
BTW, what is the current gold-gem conversation rate and can I reasonably get that gold through playing the game rather than playing an economic simulator known as the Trading Post?
In WoW when you wanted a certain piece of gear was it for the looks or because you NEEDED the stats? There is a HUGE difference in wanting to look good (a choice) and needing the equipment to continue forward in the game (a block).
Nowhere in GW2 does it require RL money to play the game. As mentioned above, you always have the option of buying Gems with Gold to obtain any item you desire.
In WoW you can transmogrify your armor to look like another piece of armor. Weapons too. And you know what? All I have to do is run the content without having to see an obnoxious “Buy Now!” button on my transmogrification interface.
And gear is part of raiding. If you don’t like raiding, then don’t play. But like I said I got my character into the easiest version of the most current content within a day or two. And that’s just fine for me because I play casually and it gives me 3-4 hours of fun a week. If I had the inclination to run the more difficult versions, I could. Some of us like gameplay that involves more than running around in a blob spamming 1.
It’s not running content in GW2. It’s grinding gold.
You don’t run content here for drops because it is incredibly unrewarding.
Tell me how long it takes you to farm enough gold 800 gems. About 80 gold, right?
All of about 5 minutes. I dont farm, I have fun. When I need gold, I dump collections onto the TP. If I dont need gold… well… I keep on having fun. In fact, I’m just under 100g again. Gotta love knowing how to have fun. Means I’m not one of the malcontents on the forums complaining about trivial matters.
Now…. if only my friends would hurry up and finish that kitten ed fractal.
And how many of those hours were spent grinding gold for gems? Sure, you don’t have to buy anything in the cash shop but who really plays without extra character slots, or bag slots, or bank slots?
Extra character slots, bag slots and bank slots are NOT included in your monthly subscription fee, so that’s an invalid comparison.
Everyone gets 50 character slots, and the same number of bag slots. Bank slots are available for a trivial in game currency fee.
For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.
With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.
What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?
Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.
In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?
The big difference is that in WoW you HAVE to get that new piece of gear because it has improved stats (the “gear treadmill” concept that keeps you paying every month) while in GW2 the only reason you would get that new piece of gear is because you like the look of it.
No I don’t necessarily. People run old content just to get a certain look all the time. And my newest character was running the newest content within a day or two of hitting 90. That’s not much of a treadmill.
That’s funny because I don’t feel ripped off. I don’t have a problem paying a sub fee for a service I value and I enjoy playing a game where I don’t see “buy now” buttons or otherwise feel like I’m being herded into the cash shop.
Yes, you can buy gems with gold. But look at the conversion rate, and how the game tends to reward you for actually playing it. I value my time and I play games to have fun, not to grind currency for cosmetic items that should be obtainable in game in the first place. It’s easier to work a little more at your job and just buy the gems instead of playing the game. Do you think that’s a good feeling for a game to give its players?
That’s fine that you don’t feel ripped off, but if you truly valued your time, you’d see that by default GW2 gives you a better time/value ratio than any subscription game because it is going to be:
([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])
whereas a subscription game will be:
(([Life of Account in hours played]/[$60])+(([hours played in month]/[$subscription fee])*([number of months in Life of Account])))
And how many of those hours were spent grinding gold for gems? Sure, you don’t have to buy anything in the cash shop but who really plays without extra character slots, or bag slots, or bank slots?
For me, annoying is seeing a monthly charge on my credit card, regardless of whether I feel that the game has provided me with that value in content over the month.
With this gem store, I can buy what I want, if I want to .. and if I don’t, I know I can still play the game and enjoy it just as much.
What is it that you feel that you are missing out on by not owning all of the items in the snippets?
Do you also feel annoyed when you see that internet or Netflix charge? Obviously impossible to get your money’s worth because you can’t use these 24/7.
In WoW, if I want a certain piece of gear I can go run the content. If I want a certain piece of gear here I have to spend real money. Why even play?
That’s funny because I don’t feel ripped off. I don’t have a problem paying a sub fee for a service I value and I enjoy playing a game where I don’t see “buy now” buttons or otherwise feel like I’m being herded into the cash shop.
Yes, you can buy gems with gold. But look at the conversion rate, and how the game tends to reward you for actually playing it. I value my time and I play games to have fun, not to grind currency for cosmetic items that should be obtainable in game in the first place. It’s easier to work a little more at your job and just buy the gems instead of playing the game. Do you think that’s a good feeling for a game to give its players?
I wanted guild wars 2 to have challenging content but nope all we get are zerg train updates it’s a shame because i’ve been playing from gw1 beta preview weekend. Dungeons in gw2 consist of stack on me and the mobs have horrible a.i so they just sit ontop of each other getting cleaved to death in a few seconds. When they introduced the queens gauntlet a long with liadri I was finally happy they introduced something challenging and it would continue but no more zerg content:(
I’ve been playing ws since last year july the only things I enjoy are the raids and dungeons because they are somewhat challenging and you can’t sit there autoattacking mobs to death while watching Walking Dead.
This is the result in an “everyone wins”, “play how you want”, “special snowflake build” game. Extremely easy content.
As I said before: two very different games. GW2 is the ultra casual player’s dream. Nothing too challenging or deep to it, so you can just jump in and have fun. Blob play is rewarded and all you have to do is spam 1. There are only a few viable builds per class and one viable gear set, so nothing to really think too much about there.
No damage meters, no duels, no addons, no instancing, etc. so players don’t have to worry about being evaluated, scrutinized, or have their feelings hurt because they chose to “play how they want”. Really, I don’t even consider it an MMO at this point.
Started that beta today. I’m finding it, after nearly 1 1/2 in GW2, overly complex. I’m getting lost to easily in the Tutorial and why do I first have to enter the game before I customize the keyboard. And I haven’t found mouse sensitivity anywhere. Trying to mouse look causes me to spin the camera around 5 times, which helps getting me lost.
Maybe it’ll be better once I’m on the planet.
But GW2 was incredibly easy to learn the controls And the simplified interface is a blessing.
wonder how many people will quit if Legendaries in gem store :o
Honestly, since so many people defend this game and its gem store, I bet legendaries in the gem store would be quite welcome and these people would be oh so willing to spend real money for them.
I mean, this game is ultra casual right? What’s more casual than simply buying everything from the gem store? We’re most of the way there already.
It’s pushing me further and further away from the game as well.
It’s not fun anymore.
Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.
Though if people must play B2P or F2P games, then Rift has a very fair cash shop.
I know what you mean.
The even more scary part, so to say, is that big games like World of Warcraft have started with cash shops, and even taken the step to be selling instant level 90’s (which is max level at the moment.)
It doesn’t matter what people think, or say- other game companies will take after World of Warcraft like they have done before.
You’re not even safe anymore, even paying for a subscription fee.
To be fair, the WoW cash shop only has a few pets and a few mounts. 98%+ of pets and mounts are available in game. Instant 90s aren’t necessarily bad, either. I have multiple characters and I’ve leveled through the content plenty of times so I used the service once. They are going into their 5th expansion now so I think it’s an effort to get more people into the game and into the newest content.
you lack consistency.
You guys are the ones whining how a b2p game has a cash shop then praise a p2p with a cash shop?
How does that even make any sense?
You can’t buy gold in WoW’s cash shop and the shop is purely cosmetic. Since I pay a sub already, the focus isn’t totally on the cash shop as it is here. This game would be a lot better if they spent as much time focusing on improving the game that they these micro transactions. Buy bag and bank space? Really?
I never got anything from the WoW cash shop, as the free 90 came when I bought the expansion. It’s not so much that a game has a cash shop, it’s the fact that it gates quality of life improvements behind one. I should have explained myself better.
GW2 is different than Wildstar, because GW2 is an ultra-casual, “everyone wins” sort of game. Hence, why nothing is instanced and blob play is so rewarded. No one gets their feelings hurt and no ones performance is scrutinized in a blob.
It’s why this community is so against things like duels and damage meters.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not for me.
Implementing some difficult content isn’t really affecting the ordinary casual player(?) no more than high level fractals currently are. Why not add content that provides a good active challenge for the portion of the playerbase that wants it (or longs for it)?
I can’t recall hearing anyone say that adding difficult content would be bad for the game =)
In theory it doesn’t impact the other players, but normally the higher skilled players don’t feel rewarded by this kind of content unless they are given gear/abilities that separate them statistically (not just aesthetically) from other, lower skilled players — they will say “there is no reason to do that, I don’t like just aesthetic rewards, we should have the best gear because we have the most skills” and so on. To a very limited degree this was done with Ascended gear, but it was pretty limited in terms of the impact. And of course it created a storm when they did it (eventually that passed). In theory they could do something like that again, but I think they are reluctant to create another tier of gear beyond Ascended at this point.
So, yes they could create this kind of content and have aesthetic rewards — but I don’t think that aesthetic rewards are generally very satisfying to the kinds of players that you would be trying to reach with that content to begin with.
thanks god that this game favor casuals over hard cores,i hate elitism, remind of a game called rift, they have time to raid 4-5 nights a week and spending 5-6 hours at least on raiding and when they were in those bis gear they were like look at us we are so awesome" cough lifeless nerds cough" . eventually rift became half dead game with low population of loyal fans and newbies messing around and leaving eventually because the game is free.
this game has solid population and well comes every one even hard cores can go after legendary weapon.
It’s possible to challenge yourself and still have fun. And there is nothing wrong with wanting more depth and challenge than 1 button spamming blob play.
It’s pushing me further and further away from the game as well.
It’s not fun anymore.
Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.
Though if people must play B2P or F2P games, then Rift has a very fair cash shop.
I know what you mean.
The even more scary part, so to say, is that big games like World of Warcraft have started with cash shops, and even taken the step to be selling instant level 90’s (which is max level at the moment.)
It doesn’t matter what people think, or say- other game companies will take after World of Warcraft like they have done before.
You’re not even safe anymore, even paying for a subscription fee.
To be fair, the WoW cash shop only has a few pets and a few mounts. 98%+ of pets and mounts are available in game. Instant 90s aren’t necessarily bad, either. I have multiple characters and I’ve leveled through the content plenty of times so I used the service once. They are going into their 5th expansion now so I think it’s an effort to get more people into the game and into the newest content.
It’s pushing me further and further away from the game as well.
It’s not fun anymore.
Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs. Because I really don’t see how people prefer to be nickel and dimed than just pay a traditional, trivial, sub free and get access to everything in game.
Though if people must play B2P or F2P games, then Rift has a very fair cash shop.
GW2 is different than Wildstar, because GW2 is an ultra-casual, “everyone wins” sort of game. Hence, why nothing is instanced and blob play is so rewarded. No one gets their feelings hurt and no ones performance is scrutinized in a blob.
It’s why this community is so against things like duels and damage meters.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not for me.
Why do I keep following this thread? It’s all the same arguments over and over, both pro and anti dueling in PvE. It’s almost as this topic hasn’t been discussed to death 15,000 times already.
I know, right? I haven’t heard one valid argument from the anti dueling people. It’s all about hurt feelings and believing that they have the right to dictate what other players do around them.
One of the main reasons that I bought Guild Wars 2 in the first place was that it has no subscription fee. Trust me, if WoW was subscription-free, I would be there right now and not playing GW2. Sure, maybe I’m cheap, but consider: how many people are like me, unable to afford a $15 monthly subscription fee? All of these people saw “Pay once, play forever!” and went, “Ooh!”. I, for one, would not be able to continue to play if a subscription fee was added, and I’m 100% sure that there would be a massive decrease in the GW2 playerbase as well. ArenaNet probably makes more right now from Gem store purchases than it would if it lost 50% of players and added a sub fee.
$15 is trivial. I pay more for my internet, cable, and cell phone subscriptions and yet, I don’t feel like I’m “missing out” if I don’t use them constantly. I have no problem paying for services that I value, and WoW is one of those services which have given me YEARS of entertainment and memories. Worth every penny.
I just got a nasty PM from an “anti-dueler”. It was fairly rude and abusive, so this one PM totally represents the “anti-dueler” community and I can safely discredit them and disregard their arguments (if they had any that weren’t fallacious). Logical, right?
What case? I simply stated what happened. You can choose to believe it or not.
I admit that I was never in favor open world dueling, but was fine with other forms of dueling. Now, after experiencing what others here have experienced in other games, I can fully understand why they are so strongly against dueling. It just creates a negative atmosphere in the game.
You have been consistently rude to me and others in this thread to promote your pro-dueling agenda. Dueling is clearly very closely associated with harassment.
He’s already been reported, but I’m not going to post other people’s pms. If you choose not to believe me, that’s your choice. Dueling just brings out the worst in people. The way you treat others in this thread demonstrates this further.
I don’t believe you because I’ve seen people go to ridiculous lengths and make absurd arguments in order to prevent this game from receiving a feature that they personally dislike.
This doesn’t help your case. Especially considering the fact that the actions of one person don’t represent the whole nor are they any sort of indicator.
If Im gonna play a new game after Gw2, I will start lookin for subbing games. Im not sure I would sub gw2 if the choice comes up in the future, as Im not a big fan of some of the changes that has been done lately. But who knows.
I didnt buy gw2 because it was a “free” game, I bought it because I found it interesting and I wanted to try it. A sub back then wouldnt made any difference.
i really like gw2 but i think i am going for sub based games with quality content and support not sub based games which are sucking money out of players as much as they can and then they will go F2P like the latest addition to mmo world you can guess which game.
i am playing games to be entertained rather than wasting time and mess around in games and say it is free at least. for people who are actually from NA/EU they know 15 euro/dollar a month is nothing and ppl pay way more than that for things they like.
but unfortunately the lie of F2P goes well with lot of poor gamers. and well i think they are in majority hence you get low quality content and support instead free to play.
The thing is ‘A fool and his money are often parted’. You don’t have to buy anything from the CS to play – PERIOD. It is all ‘luxury’ items and none are really needed to play the game. You can play this game without anything from the CS and do just as well or even better than people who buy stuff in the CS.
Understand it – they are ‘frivolous items’ not really needed to play.
ESO is a classic examples of a sub game. They have gated so much of the content – One race you pay extra for. Want the fastest mount in game, it will cost you, etc. That is more of a cash grab than GW2 ever will be. The same can be said for the other sub games that went F2P recently.
What is it that Gobbels said – a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. ESO’s single mount is NOT the fastest and can be bought with in game gold and the bonus race is nothing special – ie human. The racial bonuses are the weakest in the game unless u want a sword and board tank.
I mentioned this before: at launch GW2 gated Mistfire wolf which I recently got a few weeks ago thanks to gems discount and Anet’s eventual decision to put it on the gemshop. If you think its weak, I should post the DPS it does on Teq’s vulnerable phase on my guardian especially when its buffed with 25 stacks of might on its special attack.
ESO is not a megaflop or terrible or even boring as some pundits have mentioned. GW2 gets an edge over ESO is because of the art style and the graphics and dare I mention the TP.
I’ve noticed that a lot of people have a tendency to straight out lie when it comes to different games and unfortunately, it’s gotten to the point where it’s very difficult to have a rational conversation here.
Just check out all of the fallacious reasoning and unfounded speculation in the PvE Dueling thread. It’s absurd.
So if people can do this now, why add it to the game “officially”. And you don’t think a simple right click select challenge wouldn’t increase the occurrence of challenges?
So other people shouldn’t have access to basic functionality because you’re unable to ignore things, report, and move on?
I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.
Why would anyone pester you about dueling? If someone really wanted to pester you about dueling they would do it currently anyways since the closest thing to dueling would be to join an empty PvP arena. This whole “I don’t want to be pestered” thing is a horrible excuse people against dueling keep spouting.
Those of us who like to improve our skills in the game would love to duel our friends using our PvE/WvW builds (PvP amulet builds are boring).
I had a two week thing with WoW years ago. I was challenged on an hourly basis when ever I ran into another low level player. No I wasn’t on a PvP server for that reason and no it wasn’t due to KSing or anything else. I was standing in an inn. That put me off of allowing dueling in PvE forever.
First of all, this isn’t WoW. This is a completely different game with completely different mechanics and community.
What is stopping anyone from harassing you to fight them in a sPvP custom arena? Anyone can come up to you and tell you to fight them and meet them at a certain custom arena, it’s no different then being sent a duel request. If this has ever happened to you, feel free to post screenshots of it here.
Don’t bother. Many of these people simply make stuff up mainly because they have a problem with people playing the game as they wish because it’s not the “right” way.
You know what I hate? PvE people in my WvW holding the team back because they are only there for AP and jumping puzzles. Yet I don’t demand you stop or leave because you have every right to be there.
So I don’t get this hate for two people who might be dueling in Shaemoor and how you can be entitled to make ANY demands of them.
… Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.
I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.
This is what I mean; Opt in instead of Opt out. Everyone’s happy =)
Well not everyone. Some people who don’t like dueling might see a few other people dueling/having fun, and will get offended.
There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.
it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.
Yeah, the knee jerk hatred is really weird. And I have no idea what games these people are playing but I’ve never had a problem with “duel harassment” in my 7 years with WoW. Makes me wonder if these people just sat outside Stormwind or Orgrimmar all day…because if you’re hanging out in those places people are going to assume you’re there to watch or duel.
Honestly had more of a problem in random dungeons then with duels. And I’ve had less issue in wow dungeons than in GW2 dungeons.
i don’t want to blame the victim, but i wonder if it’s just a difference of approach, because my experience is the same as yours’.
I dabbled in DCU for a little bit, and i recall a time where i was sitting on a lvl 1 “avatar aang” toon, and a max lvl dude approaches me and duel requests me. I’m like…“oooook what does this dude expect?”
So i accept and he one hits me and goes “pfft some avatar” and leaves.
The whole experience took maybe 30 seconds, it wasn’t a big deal. It only stands out because i didn’t really play DCU that much. However, i wonder what would’ve happened if i had declined? Would he have left me alone? Would he have persisted to harass me?
Trolls thrive on resistance, and i tend to go with the flow of things. So maybe by nature i tend to deflect those that wish to troll or harass.
Like i said, i don’t want to blame the victim, but usually trolls target those willing to give them any sort of response (especially a negative one). I have seen trolls target people in map chat (in GW2) because that person responded to someone who was obviously fishing for a victim. Myself and others managed to avoid the troll by simply not giving him the response he was looking for.
Before auto-decline, the few times I got challenged I would just walk away and carry on with my business. Sometimes they would follow and try to spam it, but I would just leave the option up so they couldn’t. One person sent me a tell and I put him on ignore. That’s all that ever happened to me. None of it was a big deal or a problem or “harassment”. Like you said. It was taken care of in 30 seconds during a gaming session which would last several hours.
There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.
it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.
Yeah, the knee jerk hatred is really weird. And I have no idea what games these people are playing but I’ve never had a problem with “duel harassment” in my 7 years with WoW. Makes me wonder if these people just sat outside Stormwind or Orgrimmar all day…because if you’re hanging out in those places people are going to assume you’re there to watch or duel.
Honestly had more of a problem in random dungeons then with duels. And I’ve had less issue in wow dungeons than in GW2 dungeons.
There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.
What will probably happen is that duelers will congregate in an area or two outside of major cities and 95% of dueling will occur there with the rest in random areas. During my time with WoW I have NEVER been challenged in some random zone. Always right outside the major cities.
Same old boring duel thread with the same people saying the same things they have said in the countless other threads on the topic. I don’t think this thread is going to be the one, unlike the many others, that makes a difference.
Would love to see an argument other than: “it might hurt my feelings so therefore you can’t have it.”
