Guild Wars 2

Because WTFast and Foxfire Clusters are a much bigger threat to their bottom line

Wethospu.6437:

dlonie.6547:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Are you serious or are you just trying to mock me?

Welcome to the forums. Snark > constructive discussion, and reading is an exploit.

Ok, I admit I acted bit hastily. I give my sincere apologies to the original post if he didn’t insult anyone on his posts.

I don’t think apologies are necessary here.

OP went on a moral high ground rant and pretty much promoted his style as the one right way while insinuating that the community is too toxic for having any expectations.

People here aren’t even arguing the same thing.

Some here are arguing for/against “100% rep requirement is a bad idea” and others for/against “100% rep requirement should be illegal”

eisberg.2379:

They should just make it that when you are representing one guild, you do not even show as online with the guild you are not representing.

Yes. Let’s make it so people who could use a reminder that Garrison being attacked by 50+ enemy force or that guild missions are in 30 minutes can no longer be informed because someone got their feelings hurt about possibly choosing to join a guild whose rules he disagrees with.

All hail kneejerk solutions and celebrate that the people proposing them are nowhere near positions of power and influence in this game.

Though more importantly you miss far less by botching an interrupt in GW than one in Wildstar. In Wildstar an interrupt that is not done significantly introduces difficulty to the fight if not an outright wipe.

Wildstar was not a game marketed at casuals. GW2 seems to be the opposite end of the spectrum. Do you really think ANet wants to create wipes for casual groups just because the party comp had no good interrupt, or because the interrupter missed?

We speed runners will happily take bottlenecking content like that, because it’d increase the difficulty of content, remove all the casual bads from the dungeon runs (or make them extremely easy to filter), and give us pretty a much bigger relative share on dungeon gold income. It would end up looking like, say, any of the less casual-catering MMOs.

Other games punish you for not doing things well by wiping your party or adding significant difficulty. GW2 lets you yolo through content with anything for the most part, but doing things well makes it faceroll easy.

It’s for the sake of keeping the casuals and bads viable that content isn’t made harder, not because the dungeon community lobbies to keep things faceroll.

Keysha.2815:

BY DEFINITION, if you ‘require’ 100% rep, but make exceptions, it is no longer a requirement for 100% rep. I think YOU are the one nitpicking here.

I have asked guild leaders in 100% rep guilds, as I have belonged to specialty guilds like TTS and DTop. Most of the time they will ‘make exceptions’ during a run like that, thus invalidating the 100% rep…. or are they? I belonged to one, briefly. No problem? Except when I would rep to my personal guild for banking purposes (I have 2, and use them a lot), I would start getting whispers that I’m not repping. When I would do teq… again, whispers. Yes, every guild has a right to set it’s own rules, but either you (and whomever else this fits) don’t really know the true meaning of the phrase “100% rep” or you end up doing just like that guild did, and go back on the oh-so-generous permission to give another guild the influence when they are the ones running something the player is taking advantage of.

It gets more absurd than that. The other day I was running around, doing a heart quest in Iron Marches, on an at-level alt. The guild bounty happened by, and a guild started her. I was whispered by a member of that guild to either rep them/join them, or get away from ‘their bounty’. I just laughed at them and continued what I was doing.

No.

Expecting people in even a “100% rep” guild to be reasonable and welcoming of communication should be reasonable and standard. Thus the expectation of such rigidity at the point it was introduced in the forums, especially after many supposedly “100% rep” guild leaders and officers have shown up explaining their rationales and my own post here mentioning exceptions, becomes weak and irrational.

You and the one you are defending need to get a better understanding of “context” before trying to play semantics with me or with the thread.

PS: If an officer remarks that you aren’t repping, you can respond that you are doing a raid or Dry Top as you had previously discussed. 100% rep with exceptions doesn’t mean they have no right to ask you to rep. It simply means they have to be okay with it once you explain yourself.

Gregori.5807:

Dave.2536:

The point was that exceptions tend to be the norm, and guild leaders who do or do not make exceptions are already aware of this norm and make their decision with these things in mind.

If they have decided that Dry Top is not representative of their community, then they will not grant the exception for it (the same way a dungeon guild may not feel like granting an exception for WvW while Tequatl is fine). It also suggests that people who are interested in Dry Top may not be the right fit for the guild, nor the guild the right fit for those people.

And the accusations of straw manning were absolutely required to make your point.

Although not required, the accusations were convenient and not without merit.

Your initial question “To those who insist on 100% rep” was reduced to clarified as “To those who insist on 100% rep with absolutely no exceptions”, which is a far weaker question to far fewer people.

Feelings may have been hurt. You may have felt violated. Sorry not sorry, especially when you double down and continue the hyperbole.

The point was that exceptions tend to be the norm, and guild leaders who do or do not make exceptions are already aware of this norm and make their decision with these things in mind.

If they have decided that Dry Top is not representative of their community, then they will not grant the exception for it (the same way a dungeon guild may not feel like granting an exception for WvW while Tequatl is fine). It also suggests that people who are interested in Dry Top may not be the right fit for the guild, nor the guild the right fit for those people.

They do read. “lvl 80 exp zerker meta builds” = “free carry come leech”

Gregori.5807:

To those who insist on 100% rep, what would you tell a member who, for instance, wanted the Ambrite weapons, which require T6 Dry Tops? DTop takes 2 hours on Friday and 2 hours on Saturday… 4 hours out of the week, if you want to do all 4 T6’s. The rest of the time I rep my main guild.

If they tell you that they want Ambrite weapons, what do you tell them? Can you provide a T6 DT for these members… or any of the other things offered by specialty guilds?

I’m not sure there would be much conflict here. If the strawman “100% rep” guilds in your mind seem unreasonable to you, perhaps you should start examining real ones.

I’m sure that if an officer of a 100% rep guild heard about the Dry Top dilemma from a prospective member they’d be very understanding and appreciative of the fact that communication occurred, instead of kneejerk strawman assumptions.

The people who claim to have seen so many bad guilds and/or bad groups should realize that the one single thing always present in every one of those situations is themselves.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Dave.2536:

robertul.3679:

You accept the guild rules you stay in the guild. You don’t accept their rules you leave.
Why the kitten is this a thread??

Because some people are too narrow-minded to understand that others’ different interests may be rooted in inherently different values or goals, and far too egocentric to concede that those values and goals could be as legitimate as their own.

Too many fance words: You are saying that because players have personal goals they shouldn’t have to care for guild rules which hold them back??

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion from what I wrote. I’m saying that if their personal goals don’t align with the goals of a guild, then perhaps the guild is not the right fit for them.

I’m also saying that starting a crusade against all such goals whose goals and/or values do not align with your own is sort of narrow-minded and egocentric.

robertul.3679:

You accept the guild rules you stay in the guild. You don’t accept their rules you leave.
Why the kitten is this a thread??

Because some people are too narrow-minded to understand that others’ different interests may be rooted in inherently different values or goals, and far too egocentric to concede that those values and goals could be as legitimate as their own.

ITT:

Anything my guild mates don’t agree with or qualify for is toxic.
Asking us to make our own groups is toxic.
Asking us to run more useful things in 2+ year old content is not just toxic but oppressive.
When we disagree with what we see it is us asserting our independence.
When you disagree with us you demonstrate your rabid and total toxicity.
We are martyrs.
You are Satan.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

maha.7902:

how does someone disliking you make them elitist?

like, this legitimately has to be a troll, no way can someone hurting your feelings mean that they’re an elitist

Elitism comes in many forms, and not all forms have to be the “extremes” that people are accustomed to. Simply putting others down in the dungeons and calling others bad and acting like he was better than everyone else is a form of elitism, again. Not to mention the fact his “great warrior” skills that was also mentioned in the post.

Same logic as jaywalking is technically breaking the law in most states, but when people hear breaking the law, much graver things come to mid.

Severity does not change what it is.

The fact that your only point was “disliking” shows obviously you didn’t read the post.

When “elitist” is defined as broadly as anyone who is rude, hypocritical, or has expectations you don’t agree with, it makes it hard to take you seriously when you complain about them. This is because many of us will have different definitions (usually just people with higher expectations than “normal”).

Keep this in mind when creating topics with clickbait titles.

Zenith.7301:

Or maybe, you know, campaign for the undesirable classes to be made better instead. You know, make rangers, necromancers, and mesmers useful to stack just like warriors or thieves instead of just bringing one for some niche utility.

Why would you stack warriors or thieves for utility? And why would you stack warriors at all?

lol

Even the forum white knights won’t touch this thread as even they aren’t masochistic enough to enjoy the clicking.

Nowhere near close.

But overall it’s not even about each class’s DPS, but each class’s contribution to party DPS offensively (via buffs) and defensive (blinds, reflects, blocks so the party can continue to DPS)

That’s why ele (might stacking + huge personal DPS) and warrior (banners, some vuln, possibly might stacking) are indispensible, thief (huge personal DPS, blinds + stealth), and guardian (reflects, blocks, some blind) are highly sought after.

Quite a few “100% rep guilds” make exceptions for personal guild banks, WvW, tPvP, and/or TTS/other raids.

This statement applies more for the large organized 100% rep guilds and not the smaller ones run by naive or clueless leadership.

Just because something isn’t for you doesn’t mean it’s not for everyone.

DarkSyze.8627:

kta.6502:

DarkSyze— I’m referring to areas where there isn’t any combat (the cities, Camp Resolve, etc).

The only solution i see to this problem is for arena net to restrict all attack skill from attivate in no combat area. Square Enix and other have that in their game, arena net can do same.

Absolutely not.

Earlier in town I was watching an ele practice stacking might near the Mystic Forge in LA. I gave the guy some tips on how to do it more efficiently, and even swap weapons to be able to self stack 25 might. Without skill use in town, we would have never met, and knowledge would have never been shared.

People practicing and teaching/learning rotations benefit greatly from the company of others, particularly strangers that one meets in town. On the other hand it’s the RPers who generally are “premade” and prefer to have no external disturbances.

In other words, RPers need the towns less than everyone else. If they desire additional privacy it should be them that should be able to move somewhere else.

Funkinmofo.9635:

All the talk about filtering, why not just add the ability to link builds like they had in GW1. Was more than enough to get the party composition you wanted.

Because people would all of a sudden be accountable and unable to leech off of the “strong and capable looking groups”.

It’s not about “playing like we want” or we would’ve already gotten these “toxic and divisive measures”.

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

I actually had no issue with your post until that last bit that started lashing back at people offering you realistic solutions on what you could do, given that you had already seemed to give power to those words that didn’t have any.

People also need to be able to distinguish between “stop being useless” and “go die in a fire while your dog gets cancer”. While you may allow your feelings to get hurt by both, only one of them would be considered actionable.

How is that lashing out?

I’m just going to say yes.

Let me requote the relevant bit for everyone else to see. Even if you refuse to see it as lashing out, I’m sure others here will disagree.

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

You can tell who is part of the solution, and who is part of the problem from the responses in this thread alone.

Thank you ArenaNet for block.

The ones I agree with are part of the solution, and the ones I disagree with are part of the problem.

Am I doing it right?

One Note Chord.5031:

EcoRI.9273:

Caeledh.5437:

phys.7689:

at least try to come up with something fairly simple that will achieve the same effect.

I thought I did and posted it but it seems to have either gone unnoticed or been considered so dreadful as not bear commenting upon.

Make dungeons like the current dailies. Rather than each dungeon path being it’s own daily with it’s own reward, have the game randomly select a few dungeon paths each day and provide a bigger reward for properly completing those (eg. killing all mobs).

The reward / time for full completion could be perfectly equivalent to the current scheme.

If the game also disabled skipping cutscenes for the selected dailies that would fix the problem of newer players never being able to watch them (without aggravating the speedsters).

Everyone could still earn rewards at the same rate. Speed runs would still be possible but there’d be much, much less incentive to do them. You wouldn’t be (speed) running the same dungeons every day so it might feel less repetitive. Newer players should have an all round better experience.

In my opinion the root of the problem is there are very different types of players in guild wars 2 and some just don’t mesh well together no matter what. Some players like to kill all things and some want to skip all things. Your system is telling players to play how your system wants(aka how you want) which in my opinion is bad.

I’m not sure this is quite right. I can’t speak for anyone else, but the reason I like skipping mobs isn’t that I want to skip mobs in principle. It’s that I wan to achieve one particular goal, finishing the dungeon, and I want to do it reasonably efficiently (even though I’m not a hardcore speedrunner). If you give me a different goal, like vanquishing a dungeon, with some sort of non-stupid incentive (please, no more random ascended rings), I might sometimes want to achieve that goal instead. I’ll still want to do it reasonably efficiently, but I won’t be instantly opposed to it just ’cause I have to kill more stuff.

Some people, I think, just aren’t as concerned with achieving particular goals with the same efficiency. That’s not where they get their fun. And of course that’s fine! But I think that’s at least part of the important difference—I don’t think it’s just a matter of wanting to kill things or not.

I think the issue is that some of us wouldn’t trust ANet to provide adequate rewards (which would likely have to include very sufficient amounts of gold and tokens) for finding every last trash mob and killing it. Otherwise, I have to agree that the earlier proposal is somewhat self-centered.

Your own signature seems to be a pretty good indication of how much trust you have for ANet yourself.

WEXXES.2378:

Dave.2536:

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

If you directed these options to me specifically you did not understand what I was saying.

The PvP community is toxic, and has been getting worse. That’s pretty much it: no solutions or trying to push ideals anywhere, just pulling out my experience with it all.

For some reason, I left out a huge part of that statement concerning added penalties and what not, and that they don’t understand that to care about the community, you need to stop caring about it so much and just have fun with what you got.

I actually had no issue with your post until that last bit that started lashing back at people offering you realistic solutions on what you could do, given that you had already seemed to give power to those words that didn’t have any.

People also need to be able to distinguish between “stop being useless” and “go die in a fire while your dog gets cancer”. While you may allow your feelings to get hurt by both, only one of them would be considered actionable.

Also, those who say disabling your own chat, using block and what not, no, that tells me YOU don’t understand what caring about the community is about, because blocking people out is a selfish fix.

No.

They’re being pragmatic. You have three options really:

• Grow thicker skin and don’t let it bother you. Offense is taken, not given.
• Block the source of the unpleasant noise so you no longer have to hear it.
• Stick to your naive ideal principles while continuing to give power to words that have none.

GiraffeRampage.6420:

Saint.5647:

Frankly, I would rather have an eager noob in my party with yellow gear who is curious about mechanics and willing to learn than a moronic nub in exotic tank gear with 20k AP who still doesn’t know what defiance is

^this. I completely agree but the problem is pug leaders dont give new players the chance to learn. Im only going off of experience, as im a newer player myself. Even watching youtube, researching on the internet and reading wiki and dulfy to learn dungeons doesnt mean jack to veteran pug leaders. I have been playing for 1 solid month and i have almost 900 APs and im in full CoF zerker gear, including accesories and an ascended trinket. As being an ex-hardcore WoW raider, i find the only challenging thing to do in this game is run exp dungeons and i have including arah and fractals but there is no way for a pug leader to know that so they go off what your AP says and oh sorry you dont have enough / AP is not high enough you dont know what youre doing, kicked*

Here’s the thing. If I raise my standards for a group to be able to avoid partying with 5-9 headless chickens but it means I’d have to exclude you as well, I’ll do it. Every time. With zero remorse. I’m trying to maximize my chance for getting a smooth run, not minimize your chances of unjust or unfair treatment.

Nobody cares about you individually, especially when you have all the tools at your disposal, including forming your own group and joining a guild. If you posted for help on this forum we would all happily offer it. If we knew you more than we knew any other random stranger with 900 AP we might see that you could indeed carry your own weight.

So form your own groups. Make yourself known to others before you join their groups. Hell, if you’re confident enough, claim to be on an alt account. Because if you don’t do any of these things, then we’ll just see you as someone new to the game and likely to not have a clue about the run.

Seera.5916:

Kuro Zetsumei.1397:

Fuji.6284:

Seems like you haven’t played enough games to realize how bad communities are out there.

seems like you have trouble with reading, I’m on the GW2 forum to discuss GW2’s issues, not APB’s, LoL’s, battlefields, Call of Duty’s, Sims, My little pony’s or hello kitty online, sorry.

But “nicest” infers a comparison. Which means comparing GW2’s PvP scene to those of other MMO’s is on topic.

There could be three bullies in a school and you could say: “Billy is the nicest of the school bullies.” and not be lying. Billy isn’t nice, but he’s the nicest of the bullies. “Nicest” is a comparative term.

Pretty much stole my line right there lol

The hypocrisy and irony coming from OP is hilarious. Telling others to re-read while unable or unwilling to do self reflection…

inb4 we get called toxic for oppressing his views

Asaghon.8346:

Dave.2536:

Players like you are why I will continue to have requirements. Thank you for being so easy to filter out!

Had a quite a long message prepared, but you seem like one of those that goes on and on while you don’t know the first thing about me or how I play. But have fun in you zombie robot dungeoneering. Filter applied.

You make generalized statements about the community.

You make kneejerk assumptions about others’ skill levels based on that they have expectations

You then pull a hypocrite stunt in your next post trying to fault me for “not knowing you”

Yes, I’ll quite happy to never see you in my groups. While this alone is not a judgment on you as a person (the above three lines are, however), it is clear that we should never be in a party with each other, and I’m okay with that!

its not the responsibility of lfg groups, but the game itself has a responsibility to make dungeons accessible, otherwise, many people wont do it, and they will begin to ignore development in favor of things that more people do.

You can form your own groups in this game. The only responsibility the game has from here is perhaps to remind everyone that they can form their own parties.

I know I’m personally much less uneasy about joining the party formed by someone with 900 AP than I am when someone with 900 AP joins my party.

What if no one ever creates a dungeon run that allows players with less than 1000AP into parties? They never get to experience that content and then leave the game having never known what it was? Maybe things like AP should be left out of the filter system to avoid that situation?

In reality, many sub-1k/2k AP players will get kicked even without a filter for AP in place

But to discuss the matter anyways, if the other filters were strong enough I would have no objections to leaving out AP. But I won’t consider filters strong enough in the absence of account/character age or character stat filters.

As it stands, I don’t think it’s the responsibility of LFG groups to teach people how to do dungeons, or even take the responsibility of taking new players.* That’s what guilds are for, and it’s up to the guilds (and individual initiative) to find a friendly and welcoming guild.

In fact i have ran dungeons with “more than 10k APs will be kicked” all day yesterday and i had pretty enjoyable runs with 5-8k players.

If people want a max AP filter I have no issue with that. In fact if they want max XYZ filters for any category it is fine with me.

Statistically someone with under 1000 or 2000 AP is going to be very new at the dungeon and much more likely to be a headless chicken. While this does not mean 100%, players are not entitled to not be filtered until groups get better filtering options.

Here’s the bottom line: if I can avoid a possible risk and form my group in a similar amount of time, then I will statistically have a higher chance of a smooth run.

Those who are hurt by this hedging can be the first in line to petition ANet for better filtering options, and I will be the second in line with them.

As to the kicking of someone not following your meta, you arent really getting that the other group of people is different than you.

If I clearly specify “zerker”, and especially “zerker meta ping gear on join” then those people should not even be joining. If they get kicked it is an automatic response triggered by the rules I have already set, and they will be the ones to bear responsibility for hard feelings, not me.

Ideally you want to create a system for dungeons that can please both groups, so that more people can enjoy dungeons, and they can make more of them, because so many people want to do them.

GW2 seems to have intentionally chosen to not segregate its casual and hardcore communities. Because of that you will run into problems (ones that you alluded to in your earlier posts in this thread) that other games avoid because they do a better job of separating the communities from each other.

different party systems

Some exploitable kinks probably need to be ironed out, but it’s not a bad idea. Unfortunately it will never get implemented as it would officially separate the community in the same way that /inspect or meters would.

Asaghon.8346:

Alot of times you can tell what kind of party your getting in to from the message you see in lfg. I never join any party that demands me to be or have anything specific. Parties asking for berserkers, specific class or amount of ap can go crawl back under the rock they came from. Anyone demanding something from someone else is probably not such a good playeras (s)he himself thinks. Even when I meet the requirements, I’d rather wait for another group then join that one.

Players like you are why I will continue to have requirements. Thank you for being so easy to filter out!

I suppose I was a bit understating on “enough lvl 90 gear” and did not explicitly give credit for all the time and effort spent on Twintania. My main point was still that the “min gear” requirements in FFXIV were and are a joke in terms of filtering out anything.

Anyways, my point is that playerbase is segregated and has at least some tools to point out the baddie. GW2 has nothing.
AP points are bullkitten gauge for possible dungeon performance. 95% of 20K+ AP guys are bad because they’ve spent more time grinding Agent of Entropy and mindless open-world content.

+1 to this. We wouldn’t even try to check potato metrics like AP (although I can honestly still justify “min 1k” or “min 2k” personally) if there were better and more effective filters.

I know you dont understand this, but i suppose it comes down to empathy.

This sort of condescension is unnecessary and undermines everything you’ve done up to now. What you dismiss as Harper’s lack of understanding and empathy may also be turned around to be your inability or refusal to understand him or how this game does things(egocentricity).

Or perhaps its just logical. In their minds they see some one get kicked for a disagreement, and they think hmm… if i disagree they might kick me too…

If I formed a zerker party and kicked someone who joined without zerker gear, the other 3 members would be thinking “that’s what you get for not reading/following LFG”.

Since this is the kind of lesson and feeling that people get when they see someone get kicked, then by golly maybe I need to kick more people!

phys.7689:

actually, from what i hear, a lot of those encounters actually were initially beat at those levels, without the echo/harder mechanics
first coil requires 70, and at the time, i dont think you could get many level 80 pieces, if any. after beating it you had some level 90 pieces,

Coil up to Turn 4 was beaten fairly quickly, with the biggest obstacle for Turn 4 being figuring out where to position all the members. Coil 5 was beaten as soon as people started getting enough lvl 90 gear from the weekly-gated Mythology tomes with some supplements from Coil 1-4.

On your other point, “someone can beat it with this gear” is not the same as “anyone can beat it with this gear”. I’m sure I could clear CoF with level 75 white gear as well, but that honestly doesn’t mean I should, or that I should have to accept someone who joins my run with that gear.

As far as Garuda HM, I suspect most (may still be an understatement) people who show up there with 48 gear are getting carried by others with much stronger gear. Given that my own group could sell 2, maybe 3, slots for Garuda HM (usually wanted Garuda + Titan), with those 2 tanking whatever material the ground there was made out of, there would be no issue at all coping with people in the party bare running minimum gear.

Just because you don’t think there are pros to a DPS meter (or inspect) in this game does not mean that there actually aren’t any.

Meters and inspect mainly filter out the people who aren’t pulling their weight in a group, and serve as a preemptive filter against people who would try to join a group they clearly don’t belong in. When was the last time you saw a lvl 80 DPS try to join a lvl 100+ speed run group? We get that kind of stuff all the time in GW2. In other words, a lot of the effect happens preemptively and in the subconscious. Problems are prevented before they happen and this is why you don’t see any.

PS: gear requirements in FFXIV are a joke. They’re pretty much the equivalent to asking for level 75 white gear for CoF or level 80 green gear for FotM 50.

EDIT:

and to be clear, on the kicking, she was recommending i/we kick players who join parties with no real meta announcement and try to enforce a specific playstyle.

I don’t endorse that. Very few in this forum endorse that. Because most of us are either forgiving and patient enough to deal with bad players, or we’re not masochist enough to try to make a group without specifying clear expectations.

Just in case it needs to be said, do not even think of trying to pin a “culture of kicking” for kicks of the players who very clearly do disregard the LFG posting when they join a group with clearly set expectations.

Thing is, i found out the frequency of the drama is much lower in some other games, the question is why is that, and how can that be brought into this game without screwing everything up.

Other games don’t “force” the casual and hardcore players to mingle as much as GW2 does. FFXIV has a pretty clear line between hardcore content (Coil/primals) and more casual stuff (whatever they farm for tomes now), and the really hardcore players no longer have much reason to venture back into the casual content, and especially not the story line stuff. Even the “bribes” are not enough to entice the very elite.

GW2 puts some of its most lucrative rewards in the easy content while the harder stuff rewards trash in comparison. You then end up with everyone of all sorts of abilities being driven to run the same content.

i dont like this idea of kicking people so easily, maybe Im just crazy, but it doesnt feel like people just kicking people all the time will generate a positive feeling about dungeon running.

Neither does asking for zerker players for FotM 50 and getting a player obviously in some sort of defensive gear, a bunch of magic find food+boosters, and a corruption sigil. I suspect that with DPS meters and/or the inspect function I would not have run into such a player (as it would have been clear to him to not join my party), and such an incident would have been avoided.

In exchange for more peaceful behavior after the group is formed, are you willing to accept Inspect and DPS meters? We in the dungeon community would instantly accept that proposal in overwhelming numbers.

DonQuack.9025:

90% of people with any amount of AP are bad at the game.
^ Fact.

fixed

Ashen.2907:

People can be in the same guild while playing on opposing servers. Not sure that Guild chat of any sort can fill the desired purpose.

Player A and player B are in Guild ABC (“G1” for now).
Player A and player C are in Guild XYZ (“G2” for now).
Player A and player B are on the same server (G1 is a WvW guild). Player C is on an enemy server (G2 is a world boss train guild).
Player B sees the garrison being attacked by 50 strong. Sends a message to /G1.
Player A sees the message. Immediately goes to help, as well as relay the message on to his other WvW guild.
Player C does not see the message because he is not in G1.

???

Well, for starters you can make additional chat boxes if that was really needed.

FFXIV had /FC (their version of “guild”) and then L1/L2/L3/…/L8

I imagine in this game /G could default to the guild you current represent, and G1/G2/G3/G4/G5 would be your guilds in a fixed order.

I also don’t think chat flooding would be a problem, since everyone would be getting messages from 5 guilds, and people as a whole would generally slow down a bit as a result. If it was really bad you could go to different chat boxes like I said, or just leave G1/G2/G3/G4/G5 unchecked on the filter so only active G chat appears.

For the truly skeptical, you could introduce its implementation as an opt-in system rather than opt-out, so you would have to enable seeing chat from other guilds, rather than disable it.

I can’t imagine trash mobs being given stability just so they could brute force “fleeing from AoE” into the game. The system failed pretty badly in GW1 (splinter weapon/mark of pain/hundred blades + whirlwind attack/cyclone axe/triple chop/twin moon sweep anyone?), and I don’t even see why they would reintroduce it in GW2.

I guarantee any plans to program mobs to flee rather than the current system of attacking back in hopes that players stop casting will be exploited and broken the first week (if not day) the patch goes live. ANet won’t get anywhere trying to “outsmart” us.

Shouldn’t even need something like server chat, which is too specifically WvW-oriented.

Better would be the option to see and send chat from all 5 guilds you’re in. Do you want WvW updates so you can join at a moment’s notice when you are truly needed? Join a WvW guild. Do you want updates on world bosses? Join a guild for that. Are you looking for that elusive T5/T6 Dry Top? Join a guild for that.

See FFXIV for a model of how that sort of system works in practice.

Lord Kuru.3685:

My guess: mobs will move out of AOEs and so you’ll need AOE taunts to keep them in.

Why bother taunting? If they’re designed to run out of AoEs just bring 3-4 staff eles and 1-2 hammer guardians.

Huehuehue while the enemies continually knock themselves down in Ring of Warding while not attacking the group since they have been pre-programmed to flee.

For bosses just maintain cripples and chills to keep them in it.

phys.7689:

if bribery is what it takes, hey whatever works.

at the end of the day all these little systems somehow make dungeons something a lot of people do, and they are generally less likely to go really really bad.

I’m not really sure it’s even mostly the bribery (although it certainly doesn’t hurt), as much as the game having all the tools available for people to filter out players who clearly don’t belong, having a preemptive effect of making sure players are indeed more careful about figuring out who doesn’t belong.

Inspect and DPS (and aggro/heal) meters helps to show who is/isn’t pulling their weight, as well as provide a pretty good indication of who might be newer to the game.

Actual endgame difficulty content and a pretty clear skill/gear gate behind them also help separate the casual and hardcore groups, as the casuals know they will not be doing that content until the next gear treadmill/echo patch hits, and the hardcores no long have any need to run the easy stuff.

*On the other hand, I do feel that the GW2 community is far better in terms of offering “proactive help”, as guides and wikis are updated and maintained extremely well. We may not necessarily be as helpful while inside the dungeon, but that should not invalidate all the work that we put in when we’re not doing them.

DonQuack.9025:

phys.7689:

I think the op, who was a lot more tactful, and probably respectful than me has a valid point. Something about something brings out more negative dungeon runs for the non proffesional dungeon player in this game than in other games.

Most other games have built in gear/level/role checks. The “casuals” cant play with “pro” Most other games have easily identifiable roles. Youre not going to find a healer who specs into earth damage just because.

The “problem” with gw2 is that everyone can.

And no offence intended but what games are you speaking of? I cant think of one mmo where the dungeon community isnt thought of as kittens by the “casuals” despite pretty much everything the “casuals” do is because of said community.

I’m pretty sure it’s FFXIV:ARR.

The community there is “nice” because they are bribed by the game to carry new players. That and there’s an inspect function and developed DPS meters so players have to be more honest when it comes to joining groups.

The “story mode” encounters are also easy enough in such a way that if someone does want to watch the cutscenes, the other people in the party are likely so highly geared that they can simply move on without the person watching.

FFXIV also has a much better chat system where you can actually see the chat from all the “groups” (guild + linkshell) you belong to all the time, instead of being forced to primarily represent one. This also makes it easier to find groups because when you ask in guild/linkshell chat for something you’re assured everyone in that group has seen your request.

What am I entitled about again?

I’ve done map completion 4 times, and WvW completion 6. I’ve also done all the content in all the game modes at the highest levels.

“You casuals” who perceive persecution and oppression in everything that someone says can continue to do just that…give power to words that have none. I’m honestly feeling less and less sympathetic to “your cause” by the minute, because I’m seeing less initiative and more lashing out.

I’ve never ever said someone doing map completion had any less right to be in WvW than me or any other person actively participating in WvW, but that person can absolutely be informed that he’s dead weight if that’s what he’s doing.

why would anyone want to get map completion and then have the desire to come back in and learn how to contribute for their server having already met with your attitude.

Then don’t come back. I’m not naive enough to think that the ones who whine in these forums to this degree will ever be useful anyways, and they’d indeed be less detrimental outside WvW at whatever loot pinata than in WvW rallybotting the entire enemy group.

I’m also not optimistic that these brats will ever come back since so many of them have already formed their aversion and phobia to anything and everything PvP.

Telling the guy to gtfo might well be.

There’s a difference between telling a person he’s useless and cursing him to go die of cancer…even if that person is too salty or ignorant to see the difference.

Vincent.7452:

The fact is that you can easily finish your wvw maps in a few days with minimal amount of time spent even when your server is losing. If you refuse to aknowledge that than maybe you’re the one who is egocentric.

Tell me all about flipping keeps in T1/T2, where servers have enough coverage to keep things fortified 24/7 unless one group is extremely persistent with the enemy server unluckily complacent.

Tell me more about how “minimal effort” and “a few days” it would take for someone on HoD/NSP (T3), IoJ/CD (T4), EB/GoM (T5), and especially AR/ET

Not everyone can be on Maguuma or Sea of Sorrows. Sorry, your anecdote is still worthless.

Just because you haven’t explicitly stated something does not mean we have not or can not infer some implied meaning.

You can have the last word between us, as I will say nothing more with you.