Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

Devata.6589:

Hello wake up!!!

‘Hello, wake up’ yourself. Read who I quoted and you’ll see who I was talking to.

Will quote myself “So if somebody is negative about gem-sales it does not mean he wants it for free.”.

That shows I was talking in general. He says he don’t wants to pay for gems you assume that he don’t wants to pay at all and don’t understand a company needs to make money.

Nike.2631:

Skan.5301:

I’d think of it as “Hi! I’m the guy who has no idea how an MMO should be in reality and have nothing better to do except swipe my credit card multiple times every 2 weeks.”

As opposed to what? “I’m the guy that thinks artists are supposed to live on photosynthesis and churn out the pretties for free”?

I KNOW what an MMO should be in reality: a money making venture. Because if you don’t make money, you turn the lights off. Its a JOB for these people not a public service. I’ve enjoyed (many) monthly sub MMOs, right up to the point where they don’t deliver what I feel is and average $15 of service per month, and frankly none of them seem interested in reinvesting in their product enough to maintain that standard. So the world has moved on to micro transactions, and I at least have the certainty that everything I’ve ever bought from ANet has been logged in a database that tells them what they are doing right enough for me to pay them for it.

Hello wake up!!! I already said many many many times I want to pay for that stuff with an expansion. Not that I want it for free. So if somebody is negative about gem-sales it does not mean he wants it for free.

Anet mainly sees what tactics work best on you to get them to buy items. You have not paid anything for Southsun or fractals or any other expansions. You paid for some items so no they don’t see what you like they see what marketing techniques work best on you. And they also don’t see what other people want or if you will stay with them for a long time or are gone a year from now.

When you place that suggestion will you give me a link.

Skan.5301:

Devata.6589:

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

The cash shop is their child. It’s not going away until the very end of the game, which is when the servers go down and no one can log in anymore.

Think about how many people rush to “support the game and it’s amazing developers” every 2 weeks when something is introduced. It makes them a lot of cash, and that’s why LS is where the interest lies for ANet at this point in time.

I know thats the reason but just because it’s hard to get a better world does not mean you can’t ask for it or try to get it. And they may keep the cash-shop (Would prefer if they took it out because I don’t trust them with it anymore) but I really want the focus for income to shift from the cash-shop to expansions.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content. I prefer the latter because it keeps people interested in the game and engaged. If we went the expansion route, we would have long periods of no content being released.

And considering that we are following a B2P model rather than subscription, Living Story is much more profitable.

The content can indeed be the same but for me it’s the negative side effects from a cash-shop focus that in my eyes is destroying this game that is the problem.

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

Skan.5301:

Devata.6589:

Nike.2631:

I’d take it as a little icon next to my name like world completion but on the other side: “Hi, I am the guy paying for your free content. Enjoy.”

Have it expire 30 days after your last gem purchase.

Only 30 days? And maybe the color can change if you spend more how about that.

Of course “Hi, I am the guy paying for your free content. Enjoy.” is what you think when you see it. Thats fine!

You must understand that if I see that for me it says “Hi, I am the guy helping this game going downhill. Enjoy!”

But I guess you did get that.

Place it on the suggestion page. I will support it!

I’d think of it as “Hi! I’m the guy who has no idea how an MMO should be in reality and have nothing better to do except swipe my credit card multiple times every 2 weeks.”

Yeah thats the nice thing about it. Everybody reads it in his own way. Everybody is happy.

Nike.2631:

I’d take it as a little icon next to my name like world completion but on the other side: “Hi, I am the guy paying for your free content. Enjoy.”

Have it expire 30 days after your last gem purchase.

Only 30 days? And maybe the color can change if you spend more how about that?

Of course “Hi, I am the guy paying for your free content. Enjoy.” is what you think when you see it. Thats fine!

You must understand that if I see that for me it says “Hi, I am the guy helping this game going downhill. Enjoy!”

But I guess you did get that.

Place it on the suggestion page. I will support it! I think this one might even have a change of being put in seeing at Anet’s behavior.

Nike.2631:

If you think I’m feeling shame over giving money to people who entertain me, you’re tragically wrong .

I don’t. I am pretty sure those people would be extremely proud of the gem over there head.

About the picture. I do like the hair.. not the flower and I also do like the kites. Thats not the issue.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

My point there was more that they got that part completely wrong. What should be instanced is not. Every map is instance so no open world but there are no raid instances.

I don’t mind the maps being instanced. It doesn’t bother me, like I’m sure it does for typical MMO players who aren’t used to having such between zones. This is very typical GW, and for me not an issue. This is still an ‘open’ persistent world though, especially in comparison to GW1; however, this isn’t WoW, or Rift, or SWtoR and that’s fine. Different games do it different ways.

Just because they do it different, does not make it “wrong.” Do they have some issues with their choice at times? Yeah, but that’s bound to happen. They are just kinks in the road that need ironing out. Do they always get it right when they try to fix it necessarily? Hehe, no, but they at least try. No one gets it perfect the first time, or the second even.

I know it is more GW like or well ArenaNet like. Just as all the invisible walls. I hate those thinks. You know why I never played GW1 back in the day after trying it for 10 minutes. Because of the instance based nature of it and because I was walking against an invisible wall 10 min into the game. It was then that I said to my friend.. no this is nothing for me lets go do our homework. Yeah I still remember that, I was at his place for homework and we had talked (at school) about how I did like WoW but not the P2P model however he had something that (and I agree on that part) had a great payment-model. That was GW1.

That maps are instanced didn’t bother me as much as what was in GW1 (obviously else I would have never both the game) but since then I did see more negative side effects that come with it that I have come to dislike. Like overflows and no real bing stretched almost empty landscape like savanna that I love so much. Mounds are also becoming a problem with instanced maps, all the square maps, loading screens and it just takes away part of the immersion.

The fact that if you are in a party and somebody else is in another map his icon is black is something that even gives you more the feeling of being in an instance instead of being in big open (MMORPG) world.

If you would ask me.. what is the biggest mistake Anet had made in this game (before launch at least). It would be this single thing and not because it is what bugs me the most. Because I don’t like it however there are far bigger issue’s. It’s the fact that all those other thinks can easily be fixed but this is so deep in the core that it is not very likely they would ever change this. And I really do not see 1 advantage of it. It’s imho just something that does not fits in this time of age.

NinjaEd.3946:

This shouldn’t shock anyone. I mean have you see how many people have made posts demanding a retrait option free of charge and anywhere (except maybe spvp, tpvp and inside dungeons). Now they release a gem item to do that. A once free option in gw1, has now become a gem store commodity.

Will it upset people? Yeah

Will people buy it? Yeah…

Same applies to the new hair styles. People will buy it regardless, no matter how upsetting it is to some (or many).

True the down hill road of this game is even more the fault of those people then from the companies behind it. But still the company has multiple options.

But at least those people got a kite of shame for it and mini’s of shame and if it’s up to Nike a hairstyle kit of shame. To bad they don’t give them a really unique item like a gem-logo above there head.

phys.7689:

tldr:
gems to gold arent the real problem
anets new content tends to fail at being an rpg
gem store or not, most new additions are very poorly connecting and developing the world.
whether they make an expansion or not isnt the real issue, they need to get better at delivering content.

I would edit that previous comment as part of my comment looks like your comment. Makes it hard to read.

Back to the point. We already came to the conclusion that we did not agree about if the gemstore FOCUS (and I really mean the focus, not the gems themself) is to blame. I think it is you think it isn’t.

Yes they could put a barber in the world that charges gems but that would make it feel even more F2P like. And while you might expect a haircut at a barber ingame to cost 15 silver if he would be asking gems you would be paying more in the line of 15 gold? Now what I want to see is a barber that cut my hair for 15 silver (not just a barber). Do I have this game then I ,for example, have 10 options to pick from. I do not see anything else. Would I have the (not yet existing) expansion I would see for example 20 options.

I paid the game, development, and so on with box sales not with gems and because Anet gets the money that way in stead of from gems they can put that sort of stuff in there in stead of selling it for gems. Really how much fun is it to change your hair every two weeks it it would cost you 15 gold every time.

I would see the mini’s in the game not in a shop and so on.

But in the end yeah you don’t think that sort of thinks are because of a gem-store focus I do think it is.

Lokki.1092:

I’m a big fan of the model turbine uses, or what bioware picked up for SWTOR

sub if you want with all the bells and whistles and item shop tokens for subbing. Or Play for free and buy what you want when you want. What I don’t like about GW2’s model is I I would rather just sub and get access to everything because it is cheaper than having to buy things every 2 weeks. with just 3 characters, just buying all the outfits/clothing released since launch in the gem store would cost more than a year of sub fees would have cost me. Then of course there are the limited time items, the fun use items, the new emotes, mini pets, quality of life items, and more.

Basically I would rather pay $10-$15 a month to get the whole game, then be nickel and dimed for more money and still not have access to everything! Especially with the way content comes and goes, If I made a ranger today and wanted Roxx’s Quiver Well I’m just SOL because I cant buy it anymore. Doesn’t matter that I’ve spent more than a sub on this game so far.

I understand there are people that cant afford $15.00 a month, and thats why I like the turbine model, best of both worlds. Because for those of us who can, often it feels like we are being conned.

But with that model… as far as i know it! there is still a focus on that sort of items and so ingame decisions are still based on it. You see, the problem is not just missing out in thinks it’s thats the game becomes less fun. To use the mini example again. How is getting mini’s from the AH or gem-shop any fun? yet I had fun with collecting them in the open world in other games.

If you pay (on a monthly base or not) for that sort of items they still need to make you want to buy that. The way you describe there model it’s really like that and not like for example WoW where that sort of cash-shop items are not a focus.

Personally I don’t like P2P because of the timer over my head but thats why I want expansions. Then you can put everything in the game where it belongs and people pay on a regular base (not monthly but once every year / year and a half) for an expansion. Those few that don’t buy the expansion can still play bud just miss out on the new content.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Beldin.5498:

My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.

Well, Mike Z, Colin, and Chris W have said that the GW2 raiding would not be like traditional raiding. So Tequatl may have been anet’s answer to the raid request (no on has said definitively), which, for people requesting raiding, should still be very doable for them. They just get a couple of people with commander tags, and squad up to take him on.

We may get instanced raiding, they may give in to it if people holler loudly, but I don’t think so at this point. Colin has stated that they don’t want to do a whole lot of instanced content, because of how it divides the player base. (Thus why we’ve been told no HM for dungeons) Honestly, I like the Tequatl changes (mind you, I still aint beat him). I’m looking forward to them making such changes to all of the world bosses. But as for not wanted to do instancing… could always change. Just give me my heroes back, and I’ll be perfectly fine with it.

If they don’t want instances they should not have made every map an instance and if they don’t want to divide the playerbase they should have work with fractions and put WvW in the open world as part of that and no fractions don’t divide the player-base. Two people fighting each other are playing together.

They seem to get the whole instance part completely wrong. What should not be instanced is instanced and what should be instanced is open. A raid in an instance does not divide up the playerbase more then overflows do but it get people to really play together work on tactics. Something that does work way less with a open world boss. Well open map boss I should say as GW2 as not something as an open world.

It was never said that they didn’t want any instancing. More along the lines of they don’t desire more of it necessarily. As I’ve said in other posts, it’s a balancing act, and not one that they have perfected yet.

My point there was more that they got that part completely wrong. What should be instanced is not. Every map is instance so no open world but there are no raid instances.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Im not sure about that. You can raid for days and weeks on end in WoW and not see the gear you want and when it finally shows up, someone else wins the roll and get it instead.

The problem is, in a game focused around endgame content and gear treadmills, if the BiS gear is really easy to get, what are you going to do once you get it? Raid more and see how many sets you can collect?

Also, with Ascended gear, getting the mats itself isn’t the problem, the game chucks asc mats at you like as if they’re free samples. It’s getting 500 craft that’s the problem. But once you get 500 on one toon, your whole account is set.

I can answer what you can do.. as I never care that much about BiS armor.

You can defeat very hard dungeons with friend, attack main city’s of the other fraction, you can collect mini’s (if that is fun in a game!), you can collect mounts, you can level your craft (if that is fun in a game), as ranger you can go search for rear pets (if that is fun in a game), you can work on your house or the guild house.

That where thinks I did a lot in other MMO’s but those thinks are simply not fun in GW2. Now there are some substitute like jumping puzzles, WvW and guild-missions but as you can see, if you design an mmo good there is a lot to do.

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

Wrong, most people who have hobby gardens/orchards/vineyards do it because they enjoy growing it and what they get out of it is just a bonus. They surely are not focused on max yield/hectar or meter square (or w/e) or that industrial production gets 3/4 times more yield that they do. In the end they give lot (in some cases most)of it away or merely for simbolic price.

Rewards in this case are almost completely intrisic and come out of enjoyment of the process. And yes, they repeat it from year to year no matter the “rewards” they get out of it.

Then why don’t they plant ugly plants but always nice flowers or vegetables? It’s that reward part that is helping to make the planting itself fun. They would most likely not be very willing to do the same if they where only allowed to plant ugly and useless plants. Think about it.

RUSerious?

My grandfather had a vineyard but didnt drink any wine AT ALL.

He pretty much gave all 1000-1500 l of wine he made away.

In WoW people farmed bosses for mini’s and never use them. Whats your point here? There is still the reward. Yes I am serious.

Did they gave away or destroyed their minis when they got them? And then grind away for another one?

They didnt grind because they enjoyed grinding. They wanted the mini.

You have problem with understanding intrisic/extrinsic values.

I think thinks are more mixed then you think. I never said the reward was the only reason but an important part of it. Making whine it fun but is caring for the plants just as much fun? When somebody makes whine there are multiple thinks he does for that and the parts that are ‘less’ fun and you would not just do for nothing become more fun because of the reward.

But anyway believe it or not. I did do some thinks in other games just to get one of those mini’s and I had fun doing it. But doing it without the reward would make it not fun at all.

lol

you either have fun doing something or you dont.

Getting pin at the end doesnt suddenly make something not fun fun. Those are mutually exclusive.

So you did it for the reward and if theres no reward you wont do it. So basically you will do anything no matter how boring/tedious is just to get the reward AND you will skip something fun just because theres no reward at the end.

You might want to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

“So basically you will do anything”. No like I said it is a mix..

No, you said “But doing it without the reward would make it not fun at all.”

That was one example of farming mobs for mini’s yes. If a game would be filled with that it would be bad, in that example it wasn’t as the game was not filled with it. I gave that specific example to show the power of reward. In general… so most content should be a good mix of reward and activity.

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

Wrong, most people who have hobby gardens/orchards/vineyards do it because they enjoy growing it and what they get out of it is just a bonus. They surely are not focused on max yield/hectar or meter square (or w/e) or that industrial production gets 3/4 times more yield that they do. In the end they give lot (in some cases most)of it away or merely for simbolic price.

Rewards in this case are almost completely intrisic and come out of enjoyment of the process. And yes, they repeat it from year to year no matter the “rewards” they get out of it.

Then why don’t they plant ugly plants but always nice flowers or vegetables? It’s that reward part that is helping to make the planting itself fun. They would most likely not be very willing to do the same if they where only allowed to plant ugly and useless plants. Think about it.

RUSerious?

My grandfather had a vineyard but didnt drink any wine AT ALL.

He pretty much gave all 1000-1500 l of wine he made away.

In WoW people farmed bosses for mini’s and never use them. Whats your point here? There is still the reward. Yes I am serious.

Did they gave away or destroyed their minis when they got them? And then grind away for another one?

They didnt grind because they enjoyed grinding. They wanted the mini.

You have problem with understanding intrisic/extrinsic values.

I think thinks are more mixed then you think. I never said the reward was the only reason but an important part of it. Making whine it fun but is caring for the plants just as much fun? When somebody makes whine there are multiple thinks he does for that and the parts that are ‘less’ fun and you would not just do for nothing become more fun because of the reward.

But anyway believe it or not. I did do some thinks in other games just to get one of those mini’s and I had fun doing it. But doing it without the reward would make it not fun at all.

lol

you either have fun doing something or you dont.

Getting pin at the end doesnt suddenly make something not fun fun. Those are mutually exclusive.

So you did it for the reward and if theres no reward you wont do it. So basically you will do anything no matter how boring/tedious is just to get the reward AND you will skip something fun just because theres no reward at the end.

You might want to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

“So basically you will do anything no matter how boring/tedious is just to get the reward”. No like I said it is a mix..

Im Mudbone.1437:

Devata.6589:

Tower Guard.5263:

Devata.6589:

What is funny is that I see multiple people say. I spend (a lot of) money on gems but don’t like the way the game is going now so might stop playing / spengin money.. The way the game is going now is strongly linked to the gem-store as its being build around the whole idea of how to get people to buy gems. And indeed thats not good for the game.

So basically buy spending so much money you guys made the game go in the direction it is going now. Hopefully you learned your lesson. There is no bad thing in giving money however, better do that for expansions so you know the game will go in the correct direction in stead of spending it on a cash-shop resulting in a game focusing itself around that with all negative side-effects that come with it.

For your information, I stopped spending when the content was not to my liking, I haven’t spent anything for the last 2-3 moths or so, since Zephyr Sanctum.

Yeah thats very smart of you but you are aware that you help them to go into this wrong direction? Thats all I am saying. Some do understand that some don’t. It’s important that people do understand that.

And some just don’t care.

Sadly true.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Nike.2631:

Wait, you’re threatening that since you don’t pay money (ever, seemingly), you’re gonna stop paying money if they don’t give you something for free?

No I did pay for the game and I am willing to pay for the expansions. I do not pay for a cash-shop and I don’t like the bad influence the cash-shop focus has on the game.

Like I said I am basically asking to let me pay for it. So how you come to your conclusion that I want it for free because I would not pay for it anyway is a little strange.

I disagree with you on the feeling that the gem store has bad influence on the game. What I see is the content designers making content, and then the Gem store people making Gem store stuff that is related to the content. My feelings are that content we have been given every 2 weeks would be same with or without the gem store.

Well we can agree to disagree about that then. I do agree that it could be the same and then it would be imo just as bad but they then have a option while now they really don’t. They need to generate income so if they don’t focus on expansions they need to get there income from the gem-store.

Now let me just show some examples of what I see as bad behavior and I also see as related to this gem-store focus.

Gold-driven system.. gold is imo to important in this game. I want to be able to go out in the world to get the items I need there, but farming for gold works better, however is for me less fun. A very gold driven system however means there is a bigger reason to buy gem to convert to gold. (You see my connection here).

Mini’s. I like (well in other mmo’s) to collect mini’s. Do dungeons, find them in the open world or in a few cases even farming the hell out of one type of mobs and even NPC’s all over the world that sell them. You have a reason to go to them and you even get a connection because you remember them (WoW example because most people here will know that. The snake selling NPC in the back of Orgrimmar that walks up and down the road. I remember him only because he tunred out te be selling snakes) In GW2 there are only a limited amount of mini’s in the open world but many in the gem-store. And then there where mini’s in RNG boxes you could buy in the gem-store and so on. They know some people want mini’s and they need to make money so they put them in the gem-store. Once again you see the connection I am seeing.. even if you do not agree.

Now this hairstyle for example. Personally I don’t care that much about them. I have some transfer kit in my bank and won’t be using it but I do think this game would be a better game if there would be barbers in the game where you can change your hair and some new hair-styles ones in a while would be a nice addition to that. Of course they focus on gem-sales so they need to make money on the hair so no barber where you go all the time and sometimes notice new haircuts. No, gem items that allow me to change my hair.

I could go on with more of these examples but I think you get the picture. Now you might disagree that it would be better but you might understand where I am coming from.

The whole ‘But it’s not P2W’ does not work for me. P2W is an issue for the PvP part but what ‘winning’ is for PvP is the ‘fluff’ for PvE.

I don’t like F2P game for the reasons stated above. I don’t like P2P because of a timer over my head and so the main reason for me to go for GW2 was because there name (with GW1) with B2P as it’s that system that I like the most. I am willing to pay expansion but I don’t want to see these sorts of F2P tactics in the game.

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

Wrong, most people who have hobby gardens/orchards/vineyards do it because they enjoy growing it and what they get out of it is just a bonus. They surely are not focused on max yield/hectar or meter square (or w/e) or that industrial production gets 3/4 times more yield that they do. In the end they give lot (in some cases most)of it away or merely for simbolic price.

Rewards in this case are almost completely intrisic and come out of enjoyment of the process. And yes, they repeat it from year to year no matter the “rewards” they get out of it.

Then why don’t they plant ugly plants but always nice flowers or vegetables? It’s that reward part that is helping to make the planting itself fun. They would most likely not be very willing to do the same if they where only allowed to plant ugly and useless plants. Think about it.

RUSerious?

My grandfather had a vineyard but didnt drink any wine AT ALL.

He pretty much gave all 1000-1500 l of wine he made away.

In WoW people farmed bosses for mini’s and never use them. Whats your point here? There is still the reward. Yes I am serious.

Did they gave away or destroyed their minis when they got them? And then grind away for another one?

They didnt grind because they enjoyed grinding. They wanted the mini.

You have problem with understanding intrisic/extrinsic values.

I think thinks are more mixed then you think. I never said the reward was the only reason but an important part of it. Making whine it fun but is caring for the plants just as much fun? When somebody makes whine there are multiple thinks he does for that and the parts that are ‘less’ fun and you would not just do for nothing become more fun because of the reward.

But anyway believe it or not. I did do some thinks in other games just to get one of those mini’s and I had fun doing it. But doing it without the reward would make it not fun at all.

Draknar.5748:

Sylv.5324:

250 gems really is not a lot of gems or gold, and it helps fund future content.

No one in GW1 had an issue with new and cross-expansion hair and skin colors being offered for a small fee later on, I don’t know why people are getting so angry about this, of all things. If it was 800 gems, sure. But 250? That’s a couple RL dollars.

I think requiring any amount of money is unacceptable for some people. I don’t really understand it. My only guess is that those people don’t have access to credit cards and/or have no in-game gold to convert. (i.e. children or people with poor money management skillz—L2RL)

While I don’t think your posts are directed at me as I am asking to pay for it but in a other way I wanted to react because of this “My only guess is that those people don’t have access to credit cards and/or have no in-game gold to convert. (i.e. children or people with poor money management skillz—L2RL)”.

Because I always have the feeling that people who spend a lot of money on cash-shops are poor with money management skillz—L2RL. It are those poor management skills F2P companies work on.. ‘you know what.. create a sense of urgency and they will be triggered to spend money they else would not spend’. BTW, kids and people without CC can get gem-cards in shops. Kids just ask there parents to pay I think. So no thats not the issue for many people here.

Nike.2631:

How is that different than ANYONE else?

Giving up money that they’ve taken in now (loss of some number of all the sales that have already taken place by people willing to pay to use the new looks) to have instead hand out valued items for free as enticement in the hopes that people not buying stuff will buy something in the future (and some portion of the players will say that next thing should be given to them free to entice them ’til the next item they want arrives…) is a landslide into financial oblivion.

If the game isn’t good enough to make you stick around, them cutting their own throats over hairstyle kits sales is NOT the solution to player retention.

The problem was that you did read my comment but not the quotation in that comment. Because then you would have known I was talking about en expansion. And if you would have read a little more of the comments here you would have known I don’t like how the gem-store focus has an imo bad influence on the game itself.

And it was that very thing that my comments where about, it was not about “hairstyle kits sales” itself. I just came here because it’s just one of those thinks that are part of the gem-store focus. I myself for example think an ingame barber would be much better for the game. But with a focus on a gem-store thats not going to happen as they need to make money.

Ashen.2907:

Nike.2631:

Wait, you’re threatening that since you don’t pay money (ever, seemingly), you’re gonna stop paying money if they don’t give you something for free?

No, he is saying that he is willing to spend money on the game if they offer something he is interested in buying.

That something being an good expansion that also includes the things we now see in the gem-store because they generate money that way.

Nike.2631:

Wait, you’re threatening that since you don’t pay money (ever, seemingly), you’re gonna stop paying money if they don’t give you something for free?

No I did pay for the game and I am willing to pay for the expansions. I do not pay for a cash-shop and I don’t like the bad influence the cash-shop focus has on the game.

Like I said I am basically asking to let me pay for it. So how you come to your conclusion that I want it for free because I would not pay for it anyway is a little strange.

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

Wrong, most people who have hobby gardens/orchards/vineyards do it because they enjoy growing it and what they get out of it is just a bonus. They surely are not focused on max yield/hectar or meter square (or w/e) or that industrial production gets 3/4 times more yield that they do. In the end they give lot (in some cases most)of it away or merely for simbolic price.

Rewards in this case are almost completely intrisic and come out of enjoyment of the process. And yes, they repeat it from year to year no matter the “rewards” they get out of it.

Then why don’t they plant ugly plants but always nice flowers or vegetables? It’s that reward part that is helping to make the planting itself fun. They would most likely not be very willing to do the same if they where only allowed to plant ugly and useless plants. Think about it.

RUSerious?

My grandfather had a vineyard but didnt drink any wine AT ALL.

He pretty much gave all 1000-1500 l of wine he made away.

In WoW people farmed bosses for mini’s and never use them. Whats your point here? There is still the reward. Yes I am serious.

Uruz Six.6594:

morrolan.9608:

Cause Carbine are being upfront about their intentions. Cause BiS equipment in Wowish games is actually easier to obtain than ascended items in GW2. Cause the game design is driven by endgame content.

Anet is big fat poopy heads for failing to be different enough, yet Carbine can outright say they’re re-making vanilla WoW and that makes them better.

That’s ‘government out of my medicare’ levels of cognitive dissonance there, but then again this thread pretty much went full of it as soon as Lanfear and Indigo left.

Just for the record. I think Wildstar is a bad example and not because I don’t like what I see there (WoW plus aliens and the the humor.. I like humor but don’t think it works very well in an MMO.. It does work in the trailers!) but because it’s not released yet. Back in the day people would use Anet to show as a good example and if it was to point towards GW1 that was fair but it was also to point towards the then not yet existing GW2.

You have no idea what Carbine will do even if you like what you are seeing now so I would suggest taking another example

MikaHR.1978:

Devata.6589:

It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

Wrong, most people who have hobby gardens/orchards/vineyards do it because they enjoy growing it and what they get out of it is just a bonus. They surely are not focused on max yield/hectar or meter square (or w/e) or that industrial production gets 3/4 times more yield that they do. In the end they give lot (in some cases most)of it away or merely for simbolic price.

Rewards in this case are almost completely intrisic and come out of enjoyment of the process. And yes, they repeat it from year to year no matter the “rewards” they get out of it.

Then why don’t they plant ugly plants but always nice flowers or vegetables? It’s that reward part that is helping to make the planting itself fun. They would most likely not be very willing to do the same if they where only allowed to plant ugly and useless plants. Think about it.

Xae Isareth.1364:

darkace.8925:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

notice how many times “can we” is mentioned?

they tried?

the problem is the players, not the developers.
the players left the game because there was not enough grind.
the players felt boring because there was not enough grind.

etc.

I firmly believe that the kinds of players who stuck around for carrots, treadmills, and grinds are the exact kinds of players who are going to jump ship the moment the next flashy MMO hits the market. I doubt they were ever in it for the long haul regardless of what changes the developers made. If I’m right and they do leave, that leaves a game designed for players that no longer play. Just as bad, that leaves a portion of jaded players who otherwise would have supported the game long-term with a game they no longer enjoy.

With the next-gen consoles, several AAA MMOs, and an inevitable WoW expansion all around the corner, we’ll see soon enough whether I’m right or wrong. For ArenaNet’s sake, they’d better hope I’m wrong.

I don’t know about that. A lot of players play MMOs to achieve something and show off, it’s often those players that play MMOs like single player games, ie just for fun, that move on after they’ve gobe through everythibg in the game. The grinders tend to hang around because they’ve done so much work they don’t want to start as a newbie again.

It’s the very reason why games like RuneScape are popular, because you can work your kitten off to achieve something and feel über about it.

Also have to agree like this. Suddenly I see many wise comments popping up.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Also, no MMO on earth would possibly allow you to play as much as you want and never repeat a thing.

Repaiting is no problem if it’s fun and rewarding.

dcypher.2590:

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

What happened is players were greedy…

What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).

People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.

Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.

Galen Grey.4709:

5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.

This kind of logic as well.

30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.

Honestly I think a huge part of it is how god awful the loot system in GW2 is. For some reason this mmo doesn’t have set loot tables, so people go to Orr and farm because they get everything all in the same place and virtually nothing from different areas. The champion runs finally gave a chance to get a specific skin from the boxes but the chance is so small even that is hardly worth wasting time on.

I feel people like games even if they have a gear grind like wow, swtor, rift, and soon to be wildstar because the loot systems make sense. This boss drops this stuff..go fight him for it. These other bosses drop this other stuff go fight him for it. In GW2 it’s kinda like fighting bosses and baddies and getting a pile of junk, like here ya go.

Agree but I don’t mind it if there is no gear grind because I personally don’t like that so much. But overall you are correct. In another MMO I would fight a boss for a recipe or a skin or a mound or mini or some other cool item it dropped and for people who like gear grind it might be that armor thing. And I had fun doing so.

Here I kill a boss for.. uhhm? Well Tequatl now has a mini so thats the only reason for me to kill him but the mini-system is not fun in this game because most are just a gold-grind and then buying so I care less about mini’s in this game. Other reasons might be some achievements or just to check it out. It get’s boring very fast. It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.

As reason for this tactic I once again blame the gem-store focus. They want to have it gold-driven so people get a reason to buy gems. They put mini’s in the gem-shop to give them a reason to buy gems and so on.

Draco.2806:

Galen Grey.4709:

which other MMOs had JPs? None

Well thank god for that. They’re horrible.

I mean, come on, you’re really reaching here. I understand you want to point out how much content there is, and there’s certainly plenty – just not plenty enough to sink hundreds of hours into, not nearly enough to support an MMO. In fact that’s why most post-Everquest MMOs resort to horrible grind: in the end, there’s not enough content and in GW2, there’s even less than you’d expect.

Personally I do like jumping puzzles a lot and I do think there is a lot of content but part of the problem is that many content is not as much fun as it could be (partly because of currency reward in stead of the real reward) or not fun to redo multiple times and to make thinks worse many patches only made it worse not better.

But I don’t think it’s just the amount of content. If there content was more fun, more rewarding and good to do multiple times there would be enough for now and they could then expand it with expansions.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

“I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from” and this line is just stupid as I have been saying I want expansions in about every comment here and guess what.. you need to pay for the,. So there is no disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want.

My apologies, this part was not directed at you. My attempt to format it as a separate paragraph failed. The point is a valid one though as people in this thread, which exists for the purpose of decrying not getting something for free, are complaining about just that…having to pay for something they want.

Resources were spent to produce the new cosmetic options. It is completely reasonable for there to be a price tag associated with attaining them. ANets approach is more than reasonable in that they allow one to potentially get these items by playing the game.

No worries.

My issue here is not having to pay for it.. I am very willing to pay for it, I understand they have to make money it’s just the way you pay for it that does not fit my likings.

Basically I am here asking to pay for it because I simply don’t spend money on gems so if thats the way they keep going I won’t be paying anything. If they would change it to my liking I would come to pay much more.

dcypher.2590:

Devata.6589:

Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.

I definitely agree with this. This is exactly what drove me away from the Diablo franchise. Instead of getting that sense of accomplishment by finally getting what you needed to drop, or sense of fulfillment rather, you are forced to just grind gold as the best way to just go buy the item off the TP. In Diablo it’s the same nonsense, very rarely does anything drop even remotely close to being useful so you are funneled into just grinding to buy off the auction house, which is 0 fun. It just rubs you the wrong way when you feel like even if you dedicate your time and energy into going for something you just can’t get it without grinding.

As an example in wow I spent nearly 2 full years running Heroic Sethekk Halls for that kitten ravenlord mount. Off and on, but at least twice a week. And it was a tough road of bad RNG and whenever the mount did drop other people in the group would win the rolls but I finally ended up getting the mount and it was probably one of the best feelings I’ve had in any mmo, like finally I accomplished this task. If I had the option to buy it off the AH I probably would have, but there would be zero fulfillment in that.

Thats exactly the feeling I am talking about. The fact that you can tell (recall) that story basically says it all. It was an adventure. I have no story about the few mini’s that I did get in this game.. I would if I had gotten the mini from MF but because of the temporary nature I never got it.

Skan.5301:

Devata.6589:

Beldin.5498:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

It was a general ‘we.’ A lot of people on these forums did cry for those things, though not necessarily you or me . I wish the stupid search function worked. There have been numerous threads about gear progression (“Gear grind or people leave” is one I commented on a long while back. There have been plenty more), about raiding (Was just one asking if Tequatl was anets answer to raid like content in the LS forums), etc. (Starting to think I’m on here too much… but darn it, work is boring when you’re waiting for code to compile!)

I don’t know how much was asked for in game. I mean I saw requests for some of it, which started some heated debates in LA, but it wasn’t as ‘loud’ as on here.

Yes, the forum is a vocal minority, but we don’t know where else they are taking feedback from. Only they have the actual numbers and metrics.

My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.

People where against it? I have seen people asking for it even before beta when Anet announced that they only worked with dungeons for 5 people. We can only hope to finally get some good raid stuff.

Yes. Mostly from people who are stuck on WoW because it’s a game they’ll never get to play because it’s a P2P game. Or from those who were bads on the same game and always failed at raids.

I just threw WoW in there, there’s many other MMOs that have raids, but again, it’s the same thing. “GW2 is different.”

At this point in time, I fail to see what is so vastly different from those games and GW2 that people still say this.

I did play WoW and I did like it but I never did raids. Not because I was bad at them but because I mainly played solo.. meaning not in a big guild. Now in GW2 I am in a big guild and I would love to do something like a raid. Or (something that I did in WoW) attacking the main city of the other fraction. Thats not an option for now in WoW but yes raids would be fun.

Good tactics with people on teamspeak and all working together to a goal.. more then just brainless zerging or maybe indeed needing to use brains like on Tequatl but having 2 people on the turrets thats don’t know what they do and so having 100 people fail so they have to wait another hour for Tequatl to spawn.

BTW I don’t understand the hate towards WoW so much. They do a lot of thinks very good. That’s also why they are the most successful and known MMORPG out there. Trying to do everything different for the sake of doing it different is plain stupid imho.

Why I do not play it anymore.. well like you say P2P stops me from playing it. I don’t like that system.. then again I also don’t like the Cash-shop system GW2 is now going. I prefer paying for expansions. That might cost me exactly the same as P2P (as I would most likely buy collector edition and would most likely not pay P2P every month) but I don’t have a timer over my head. So I did not stop playing it because it was not fun. Now I must say many complains I hear now from old WoW players are people who did different content then I did. I loved crafting and searing for rare pets and mini’s and so on.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Beldin.5498:

My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.

Well, Mike Z, Colin, and Chris W have said that the GW2 raiding would not be like traditional raiding. So Tequatl may have been anet’s answer to the raid request (no on has said definitively), which, for people requesting raiding, should still be very doable for them. They just get a couple of people with commander tags, and squad up to take him on.

We may get instanced raiding, they may give in to it if people holler loudly, but I don’t think so at this point. Colin has stated that they don’t want to do a whole lot of instanced content, because of how it divides the player base. (Thus why we’ve been told no HM for dungeons) Honestly, I like the Tequatl changes (mind you, I still aint beat him). I’m looking forward to them making such changes to all of the world bosses. But as for not wanted to do instancing… could always change. Just give me my heroes back, and I’ll be perfectly fine with it.

If they don’t want instances they should not have made every map an instance and if they don’t want to divide the playerbase they should have work with fractions and put WvW in the open world as part of that and no fractions don’t divide the player-base. Two people fighting each other are playing together.

They seem to get the whole instance part completely wrong. What should not be instanced is instanced and what should be instanced is open. A raid in an instance does not divide up the playerbase more then overflows do but it get people to really play together work on tactics. Something that does work way less with a open world boss. Well open map boss I should say as GW2 as not something as an open world.

Beldin.5498:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

It was a general ‘we.’ A lot of people on these forums did cry for those things, though not necessarily you or me . I wish the stupid search function worked. There have been numerous threads about gear progression (“Gear grind or people leave” is one I commented on a long while back. There have been plenty more), about raiding (Was just one asking if Tequatl was anets answer to raid like content in the LS forums), etc. (Starting to think I’m on here too much… but darn it, work is boring when you’re waiting for code to compile!)

I don’t know how much was asked for in game. I mean I saw requests for some of it, which started some heated debates in LA, but it wasn’t as ‘loud’ as on here.

Yes, the forum is a vocal minority, but we don’t know where else they are taking feedback from. Only they have the actual numbers and metrics.

My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.

People where against it? I have seen people asking for it even before beta when Anet announced that they only worked with dungeons for 5 people. We can only hope to finally get some good raid stuff.

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

I think ANet have a very skewed view of fun since they dropped GW1.

Mindless grinding for example does not = fun.

I think Guild Wars 1 players have a very skewed view of fun. See how that works? What a silly comment.

Fun is subjective. I can almost guarantee the stuff that I found fun in Guild Wars 1 you didn’t and vice versa. You don’t get to have a monopoly definition on what fun is.

Colin did define things as not fun in that article. And many of those things are now literally in the game.

Beldin.5498:

IndigoSundown.5419:

“raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play”

Good that they don’t start with something like that now.

Oh .. wait ..

A really good organized raid can be fun and is something I would love to do with the guild. A not organized zerg of players like with the Tequatl is not so much fun.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think what we need to consider here is that ‘fun’ is subjective. If you watch the Twitch streams, the developers do very much seem to enjoy their game. They are having fun with what they’ve made. They are happy with it, and this is probably somewhat how they gauge what is fun and what is not. Which is fine.

That said, what is fun for one, is not necessarily fun for someone else. Which from the hollering on the forums, is very very obvious. So while they are potentially creating a ‘fun game’ to them, it doesn’t suit some of your tastes, so you take what they said and throw it back them claiming they are lying.

I don’t feel they were (or are) lying. I think it’s a matter of perspective.

True, fun is subjective and like I said in my previous comment. I can’t understand why he says doing a dungeon for a rare drop is not fun. But doing it for currency to buy something apparently is fun according to them? As thats how it is now. I see that the other way around.

However he also literally gives examples of what he sees as not fun and those thinks are literally now in this game, a lot. So it’s not just a matter of perspective because of the subjective nature of fun.

darkace.8925:

When I read the following statement from the game’s lead designer,

“The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, designers of traditional MMOs create content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.

When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.

But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?"

I thought, “now there’s an MMO I can get behind. The developers want to make a game that’s fun, not one that concerns itself with stringing players along with things like gear-treadmills or time-gated rewards.” A year latter, now that I’ve seen what the Living Story is all about, I’ve had a change of heart. The Living Story is essentially doing exactly what subscription-based MMOs do…keeping players logging often for the sake of “chasing something in the game”.

The Living Story introduces temporarily-available content. Tied to this content is temporarily-available in-game rewards and – not coincidentally – temporarily-available items in the cash shop. The developers are resorting to the exact kinds of tactics they intended to avoid…“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.” Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

The article goes on to say,

~

Funny really. If there is an MMO out there making content just to keep people playing and buying it’s GW2.

Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.

Buying that rare mini from the trading-post or gem-shop is boring, getting as a rare drop is FUN.

My complains about GW2 and Anet’s focus on the gem-store is that it takes away the fun out of the game and then it is really funny… or sad to read this.

And raids is also something a lot of people ask for but so far Anet refuses to put it in.. If you read this the reason might be because Anet think it is not fun.. that of course explains why people ask for it. Really.. This person has no idea what is fun.. I do agree that grindy quest are not fun.. good quest however are.. and grindy hearts or grindy events are also not fun just like grindy quest.

So the thinks that he says are not fun but really are fun are not in this game and the thinks he says are not fun and are indeed nut fun are very much in this game.

I love the interaction with the guild and doing stuff with them (but we do miss thinks to do.. you know like those raids that apparently are not fun).

It the amazing guild that keeps me in GW2, it’s not GW2 itself sadly.

Khisanth.2948:

Not going to read through this whole thread which is probably just a lot of the same complaint repeated/people agreeing to the same complaint so this might be covered already.

To answer the topic question. I can think of two reasons.
1) Well this is obvious, ANet as a company must have a revenue. They’ve pretty much always said you will be expected to pay for cosmetics.

2) They would have gotten complaints either way.
If they had made it possible to select these new styles on new characters there would have been complaints about how it is unfair that they get fewer styles just because their characters were created earlier. Then there would be some demands for a free style kit for every character created before the update. Probably some more complaints with something about face slapping and how they really deserve the free kits since an older character means they’ve been supporting ANet for longer.

Now the obvious response to that is why can’t they give a free style kit for every character created before the update? However the answer would be fairly obvious too, these styles didn’t create themselves.

The AP chest for every 5k AP also includes a Total Makeover Kit and 400gems which would be enough to get a second one.

Better read in the future indeed. Yes the hairstyles need to be created and Anet needs to make money. But they can do that with expansions and put stuff like this just in the game.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Invisty.6435:

Crystin Cox is the responsible individual at ArenaNet, OP. She’s their monetisation manager or something like that. It’s basically her job to selectively slice up new features and make them only accessible to paying customers.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

Then we know who imo is incompetent at her job. If it’s correct that you say.

Maybe or maybe not. Guild Wars 2 after the initial box sales, has been making more money per month then Guild Wars 1 ever did per month. If it stays like that, then that would mean she would be competent in her job.

If it stays that way and thats the big question because while I do believe this sort of tactic might work very well on the (very) short run I think it is mainly bad in the long run.

There has been a big discussion going on about that a few weeks ago with the living story (what is part of this tactic). It now seems that Anet is also changing there LS so you can wonder if there numbers are showing them that as well.

But like I said. I think multiple people are responsible for that. Not just one person. Thats something Invisty said.

TexRob.5183:

This is the beauty of the gem store (for them). I tell the younger guys in my guild that I wish there was something like Planetside 2, an optional subscription method. They all think I’m crazy. One where you say pay $15 a month, and get $10 worth of gems, and some bonuses like XP, MF, etc. That way you can save up gems if you need them. This allows players to budget. The problem is, Anet does not want that. People say, “Oh, I don’t pay a sub, so it’s ok if I spend $10 on the gem store”. The problem is, they often say that multiple times a month. That’s why GW2 is doing so well and they are not planning to charge for expansions.

For those of us who like to budget, I wish they would put in something like the system I mentioned.

Personally I am not in favor of a subscription but I do agree with what you say that is why I keep hammering on expansions because it has the same effect but also does not effect the world in a negative way. If you would get gems with a subscription it still means they need to make it so people want those gems and so you hold the negative side-effects of that focus.

I have thought about it how I would do it if I would be the full owener of a game company.

Possibly I would have a cash shop, but with very limited stuff in it and I might even have a VIP subscription because some people prefer a P2P model and you don’t want to alienate yourself from those people. However in my case I would give those people thinks like a title only available when you have that subscription and for example access to beta content (upcoming patches) and maybe a few special mounts you can only use when you have that subscription and maybe even some sort of discount on expansions (hard to arrange). But that would then just to give the P2P people an option and will always be clear as not giving any big attention / focus. The focus would be expansions and people could expect a full experience with the expansions. Also in the non-PvP part because thinking only P2W is bad is flawed.

DanH.5879:

Devata.6589:

DanH.5879:

i think over 100e so far…
i liked my lol thief, then at the beginning….but now…
a-net devs and the community hated them
now i log ~1 time per week,
heavy nerfs are on their way again, yay, maybe i can happily quit this hame
since the root cause with 25 (bleed) stacks limit was not fixed since forever…
venoms are also getting the short straw…

So first you spend a lot of money on gems and so helping GW2 with there gem-store focus. Then the game changes for the worse for a big part because of that and then you leave leaving us (people who are willing to pay for an expansions but not for gems exactly for this reason) with a game that has gotten worse partly because of your input.

Thanks.

you piece of …, you think i am happy they trashed my class, but the obvious problems were not fixed ? halo ?

I feel for you don’t get me wrong but I really hope (for me and for you) that this is a lesson for people who spend a lot of money that way. Spending money is fine but the way you do it effects the game and it is important people are aware of that.

Anet does not seem to be still very active in the forums so maybe my only goal left here it to get people to understand that. You know to spread the word.

Tower Guard.5263:

Devata.6589:

What is funny is that I see multiple people say. I spend (a lot of) money on gems but don’t like the way the game is going now so might stop playing / spengin money.. The way the game is going now is strongly linked to the gem-store as its being build around the whole idea of how to get people to buy gems. And indeed thats not good for the game.

So basically buy spending so much money you guys made the game go in the direction it is going now. Hopefully you learned your lesson. There is no bad thing in giving money however, better do that for expansions so you know the game will go in the correct direction in stead of spending it on a cash-shop resulting in a game focusing itself around that with all negative side-effects that come with it.

For your information, I stopped spending when the content was not to my liking, I haven’t spent anything for the last 2-3 moths or so, since Zephyr Sanctum.

Yeah thats very smart of you but you are aware that you help them to go into this wrong direction? Thats all I am saying. Some do understand that some don’t. It’s important that people do understand that.

Healix.5819:

New hair styles in the gem store is a perfect example of what people wanted out of the gem store – stuff that is purely cosmetic and doesn’t matter.

However, the hair shouldn’t be a part of the kit. What makes it slightly worse is that when the kit was first introduced, although they were unsure how it’d actually work (because it wasn’t final), they said that new kits may be released in the future and only those kits will have the new styles. For example, imagine there being 2013, 2014, 2015 etc, style kits, and if you want these hairs, you’ll need the 2013 kit specifically. That would also mean that any old kits won’t get you the new styles and all old styles would be eventually lost.

What they should be selling is “series 1 hair styles” that unlocks the hair styles for you account and comes with a free hair style makeover kit. On the character creation screen, these hair styles would be selectable but locked until purchased to let people know they’re there. A month from now, no new player is going to know about these hairstyles.

“New hair styles in the gem store is a perfect example of what people wanted out of the gem store – stuff that is purely cosmetic and doesn’t matter.”

Some people maybe. Clearly not all people as you can see in this thread.

They just need to put a barber in the game and I pay for that barber and the hairstyles with an expansion.

Invisty.6435:

Crystin Cox is the responsible individual at ArenaNet, OP. She’s their monetisation manager or something like that. It’s basically her job to selectively slice up new features and make them only accessible to paying customers.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

The article you link does not show how much this is her responsibility. It has more to do with the whole financial viewpoint but if you are correct then she could do a better job by telling Anet to focus on expansions. But I really don’t believe there is one person responsible for this.

eisberg.2379:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Jamais vu.5284:

They could add fluffy kittens as free permanent minipets and someone would still find a reason to complain about.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_White_Kitten

luckily, I don’t think anyone did complain

Actually if I remember right they did, because of the price and it being temporary -.-

You see this.. It’s expansive and temporary because of their focus. So the gme-store and some items in it is not the problem. The focus is!

tagos.8946:

Devata.6589:

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

So if some another game does it worse then it’s oke. That lets me think about politics where some politics always say people should not complain because compared to Africa we really have it pretty good. Personally I want to see how it can be even better but heey, everybody may has it’s own view on things.

Now I do wonder.. if you have kids and they would come home with bad grades if that would be fine if multiple classmates have even lower grades?

Wow. Great analogy.

But yes – I think the GW Store is absolutely fine. I am not forced to buy anything to circumvent restrictions added into the game to force me into the store to buy it like Turbine do.

I don’t have to pay over a $100 to get an essential weapon for PvP like in Neverwinter.

All I have to do is decide whether or not to buy some cosmetics or bank service or some other pure convenience item. So yea – comparing a perfectly fine Store to Stores run by crooked companies is working out real fine for me. There’s nothing much wrong with this Store.

If you want cosmetics pay for them in gems or earn the gold. If a company can continue to support and develop this great game by the voluntary contributions of cosmetic buyers then I’m totally in favour.

Once again. I am not agains a cash-shop itself I am agains the effects from a focus on the gem-store compaired to a focus on expansions for income. Thats something else.

knives.6345:

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

Because expansions are being released every day…

No every year / year and a half in that case.