Guild Wars 2

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

captaincrash.6528:

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic
Then you thought wrong.

“Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?”
If that pay wall would be a big expansion where this was part of.. Yes!

I would rather have hair styles behind a pay wall, and have new content to look forward to every 2 weeks that I do not have to pay for. Doing this living story stuff is far superior than having an expansion.

I don’t agree with you on that last ones. Besides it’s not only the living story and if the hair style in this case would be part of the expansion it’s also behind a pay wall.

Jon.1376:

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

They can and will, I see no reason they shouldn’t do both. I agree with there methods in this instance.

Why wouldn’t you take advantage of someone with extra money and little patients? If someone wants to cut line at six flags they pay for a special pass, its the same here. You can pay for your gold/gems if you don’t wanna wait.

But

As far as the original reasoning of said post, they do this to take advantage of peoples with extra money but they still offer their services for “labor” if you don’t have the cash.

Playing the game is labor lmfao QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

They could do both as long as they then focus on the expansions thats fine. When they would keep the focus on the gems you keep having the same crap as now.

The question should not be.. why can’t get new chars the new hairstyles. The question should be.. why don’t we have an ingame barber that does your hair. Thats the better solution game wise.

Answer is because they won’t make money that way and they are now making money with the gem-store so this is the way they do it.

And there you see a decision that is for the worse for the game (no barber) based on the focus on gem-sales. And that my friend is my point.

People with the extra money shout understand this and might better not spend there money on gems but on expansions. Just like I suggest.

People with the extra money must understand this, and might better not spend there money on gems but on expansions and if they want to support Anet some extra there are the collector editions. Just like I do, if there would be expansions. Only way Anet will listen I am afraid.

Dual.8953:

I’ve probably paid more. I don’t mind though, not like I was forced to or anything.

Not literally but they have been trying to get you to buy gems in many many (bad) ways. And it did work on you.

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

So if some other game does it worse then it’s oke? That lets me think about politics where some politics always say people should not complain because compared to Africa we really have it pretty good. Personally I want to see how it can be even better but heey, everybody may has it’s own view on things.

Now I do wonder.. if you have kids and they would come home with bad grades if that would be fine if multiple classmates have even lower grades?

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

P2W is only an issue on the PvP aspect and you know.. for many players PvP is not the main aspect… In GW2 PvP is not even the main issue.

The gameplay is and decision made around the gem-store do effect the gameplay.

Morrigan.2809:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

It comes from the fact that he does not like the Living Story and blames the gem shop for it.
He claims an expansion is the only reasonable way for a BtP game to make money.

What he seems to never take into account is that we will have everything you get in an expansion i.e new maps,races, classes, skills, traits, etc. Anet has just not decided how they want to bring it into the game.

but you know- gems shop is evil- dun-dun dun-dun

It’s not just the living story as a matter of fact this topic itself is not about the LS but about one of the many other negatives about a cash-shop focus.

I do take into accound that we will get those things.. Please quote me where I say that I think we don’t get them! But we also get the negatives that I don’t want and I think are bad for the game.

“but you know- gems shop is evil”
No. A focus on the gem-shop is evil- dun-dun dun-dun

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

It’s the focus we are talking about. GW1 clairly had a focus on the expansion. I don’t say Anet should remove the cash-shop I say they should move there focus.

For GW2 they are not even yet sure if they are going to release expansions. That shows how much there focus in on the cash shop.

“I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from” and this line is just stupid as I have been saying I want expansions in about every comment here, and guess what.. you need to pay for them. So there is no disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want.

captaincrash.6528:

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic
Then you thought wrong.

“Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?”
If that pay wall would be a big expansion where this was part of.. Yes!

Astral Projections.7320:

For those who think that these new hairstyles should be included in character creation now and be free.

That’s fine for all the new accounts or for old accounts who want to make a new character. Otherwise, old accounts are going to have to purchase the kits. Don’t you think that people who have already have level 80s wouldn’t complain about this? The forums would go ballistic if new people got these for free and old accounts didn’t. They can get these for free with ingame gold now and people are complaining.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy? Mail out kits for every character slot you have? After all, you might want to change each one. And why about when/if more hairstyles come out? Or new faces? Should ANet mail out additional hair and total makeover kits each time they make more options? To everyone that has ever bought the game and one for each character slot?

ANet is offering a non essential vanity upgrade. An upgrade that was not included in the initial purchase price. If it was your business, and you included a vanity upgrade on an item would you give your work away for free to every one of the millions of people who had bought the basic package a year before? What would you say to a customer who told you that you should have done this work a year ago and in addition, it should be free now?

Everyone of course wants free items. I want free items myself. But you have to consider it from the point of view of the business. its not reasonable to expect a business to do work and then hand it over for free. I very much doubt that many of the people complaining here works for free on a regular basis.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy?
Put a barber in the game-world where you can go to change your hair for 15 silver.

Income can then come from expansions.

eisberg.2379:

Ellisande.5218:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Guild Wars 1 is in fact a B2P MMO.

Just because you don’t know what a MMO is doesn’t mean GW 1 isn’t a MMO. It just means you don’t know what a MMO is.

Arenanet must not know what MMOs are either

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience

Also from the Official Wiki:

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

Doesn’t matter if other people call it an MMO, when the developers themselves did not call it an MMO and marketed it it as not being an MMO but rather as a CORPG. Therefore judging on how an MMO does thing compared to something that is of a different genre is not fair, and irrelevant.

I also don’t see GW1 as a MMORPG. But it has some similarities and that is that they host many people at once (maybe in different instances but still they need the servers to do so) and it’s something that can run for years, needs getting patches and attention for an ongoing period.

And it are these aspects people are referring to when they say a specific payment model fits or does not fit an MMO. So in the discussion if GW1 proves that GW2 also could work as B2P (so focus on expansions) yes it does.

GW1 is mainly from a gameplay viewpoint not an MMO. Technically is has very, very similar aspects and fits in the same category.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

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I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income. Anet would rather they give us the content with no additional charge, instead of charging us for expansions. IMO, this system they are doing now is far better than charging for expansions. Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game, new hair styles is purely cosmetic and it certainly belongs as a gem store item and is nothing wrong with it being a store item, people are not entitled to free cosmetic stuff just because. And just because is basically what it comes down to. And yes, people have complained about everything in the store, from dyes, to bag slots, to character slots, to skins, to XP boosters, literally the only thing people have not complained about in the store are services like name changes.

“Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game” the stuff they have been adding has by itself for the most part no real effect on the game. But the decisions they make to get people to buy gem (what you get when you focus on gems) has a big effect on the game.

Collecting mini’s is not really fun in this game because they are mainly available in temporary events or are only available in the gemstore so it’s getting money and buying gems to get them or farming gold, getting gems to then buy them or buy them from the trading post. And collecting pets (well going in the world, finding them, fighting bosses that drop them and so on) is for many people an important part from an mmo.

The temporary nature of the living story is because of the gemstore gem-sotre focus. There is no barber so you can change your haircut every week because of the gem-store focus, the gold-driven system is because of the gem-store focus because if people could better farm what they need and so gold would be less useful the gem to gold would be less interesting, a lesser focus on WvW is because of the gem-store (harder to get something those people want from the gem-store anyway without it being P2W). So the impact is very big even if the items by itself available in the gem-store are not.

You may still like the more F2P approach (so focus on cash-shop in stead of on expansions). But I don’t and I see many people complain about effects of this like the living story.

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

LOTRO went in BIG time with the cash shop system after the success it became in Turbine’s other big game, DDO. Actually, the way they do it, you can also subscribe to get “VIP” status and unlock some account features (which you can also buy in the Turbine Store a la carte). The initial release is free, but everyone must buy expansions (now called “quest packs”) in order to play the full content of the game. There were definitely players who were not happy with the decision to bring in a cash shop and go hybrid-F2P with expansions on top of all that, but player numbers did apparently go up after the switch. So for LOTRO, the system works (for now, at least…)

The main reason that I’m skeptical that ANet would focus ONLY on the gem store content is that this approach does little to bring new players into the game. If the gem store stuff is good/shiny enough, it might retain existing ones (the Living Story is also an attempt to retain players). Expansions (or updates equivalent to expansions) DO bring in new players, so I would expect them to eventually release a major update of some sort.

At any rate, I disagree that the main focus of the devs even now is on gem store content. I mean, what’s on there? Account upgrades/services (which every game has), boosters, convenience items (each one merely replacing a single NPC function or existing item, such as the gathering tools), minis (which there are plenty of in-game already), a few armor skins, and now some hairstyles (via the self-style kits). Nothing essential (yet, and hopefully never), and IMO exceeded by what we’ve gotten for free thus far through the LS updates (not that every LS update has been exceptional in terms of gameplay, but it’s quite obvious that a lot of work went into creating areas like Zephyr Sanctum).

If anything, my concern is that it’s the temporary content that’s taking focus away from full-fledged expansion-type content such as new landmasses, races, and professions. I’d gladly take just one LS update a month or every six weeks if I knew there was a larger, more permanent update around the corner.

The main focus on the gem-store is at a higher level as the developers but look at your last paragraph. You mainly don’t like the Living story because you are afraid it will take time away from a real good permanent update (like an expansion?).

I don’t like the gem-store focus precisely because of this sort of results. Don’t you see the connections? The Living Story is there to get people to log in and buy gems. From a financial viewpoint thats the main reason for it being there jut as temporary stiff and this hair stuff in the gem-store and so on. With a focus on expansion they would invest more time in that big update and less in something like we have with the living story. Priorities change and imo for the best.

It’s not the gem-store itself that I don’t like.. I will not buy anything from it anyway so financially for me I should be in favor of it. But it’s what comes with it that I do not like.

Same as the hair.. thats one of those examples, and personally I don’t care at all about hair options. I would most likely not change it even it it was free and yes if I would create a new char I might pick one of the new ones if I like them but I won’t miss the them now they are not there.

It’s the type of behavior (that I 100% understand from a financial standpoint when having a cash-shop for main income) that I do not like and where I am talking about.

Copestetic.5174:

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

First of all I’d like to say, this is perfectly fine for me and ANet has to make money somehow (I don’t agree on everything they do for the most part so don’t bother thinking I’m an ANet evangelist).

The Kit costs only 250 gems which equals a mere 13 gold currently, you have the option to get everything in the gem store for free unlike most F2P mmos so stop being childish.

For those familiar with dungeons they should know how easy it is to make money now.

A short math below if you please:

CoF P1 = 1g, HoTW P1 = 1g, AC P3 = 1.5g, CoE P1/2/3 = 1g Per Path, Doing all these daily totals for 6.5 gold + another 1.44 gold from the 24 silver and 20 Empyreal Fragments. For a total of almost 8 gold EXCLUDING drops.

Making money in this game is way too easy, standing around LA won’t make you rich.

I agree. Staying on the forums complaining about it isn’t going to net you that kit either.

But it helps more that going with it. You can let them know here and don’t buy gems for money and maybe get friends to not buy gems for money. Of all the options that will not work very well this might still work the best. And if it would not work but GW2 losing many players because of this behavior at-least you can then say.. I told you so. Thats also worth something.

phys.7689:

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

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I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

they would be putting all the extra crap in the expansion, and how much new stuff you get outside of an expansion would be fairly limited. keep in mind GW1 had only 1 major content update outside of expansions for most of its life, it wasnt till the cash shop got more robust that they started doing the free story addition winds of change.

I would say they put in all the extra crap AND a decent amount of new stuff like a race, a few more maps, maybe mounts or guild houses.

I am pretty sure GW1 got 3 good expansion. I never hearth people complain about that those expansions where only crap and I know a lot of people that where very into GW1

Copestetic.5174:

Devata.6589:

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

It is in GW2 but expansions can easily be used as an substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions (I would not call it an substitute because that makes it seem like if a subscription is the standard but oke). Anet was not planning on an expansion so there main income was supposed to be the cash-shop. Because of many complains they said to rethink that decision but no word about it after that.

That other games do it different.. that might be. WoW asks gets money with subscription, box sales and a cash-shop (not a cash-shop focus as GW2 but they make money with it anyway) but that does not yet make it good or the way to go for any other game.

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

Then people like yourself should have an ample amount of gold to trade-off for Gems.

Yes thats true, thats one of the reason why they use temporary available stuff and put in a lot of things. It’s not only to create a sense of urgency (however that is the biggest reason) it’s also so most people don’t have the gold to convert to gems to buy everything. But I am not sure what your point is here.

People will still spend money on it but it would indeed be less. Everything they do now it to maximize the income from the gem-store but with a focus on expansions and not on the gem-store they would do everything to maximize the income on expansions and the income from the gem-store may be less as it has no focus.

Thats the whole idea so I really don’t get your point here.

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

It is in GW2 but expansions can easily be used as an substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions (I would not call it an substitute because that makes it seem like if a subscription is the standard but oke). Anet was not planning on an expansion so there main income was supposed to be the cash-shop. Because of many complains they said to rethink that decision but no word about it after that.

That other games do it different.. that might be. WoW asks gets money with subscription, box sales and a cash-shop (not a cash-shop focus as GW2 but they make money with it anyway) but that does not yet make it good or the way to go for any other game.

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

I have been noticing since the patch before but indeed this made it even a little worse and I did hear more people complaining about it in the guild.

I don’t have a lot of lag problems in general so it’s not that bad for me but it might be worse for people who already had some lag problems.

We where in TA for over 2 hours when also the ‘leader’ of the dungeon DCed and could not get back in because of the patch (really bad design double.. a leader for a dungeon and not being able to get back in when a patch is coming) and so we all had to stop.

Zorby.8236:

Why? It’s pretty obvious. Pack-1 sales were starting to wane, so they say they’ll remove it creating an urgency. This will cause sales to spike before they remove them earning some extra cash. It’s all about money, and considering minis add nothing to gameplay and are a hassle to use anyway I have no problem with this. Game’s gotta float somehow.
PS: Wish I’d be faster playing that market, could’ve earned some free gold…ah well

Game’s gotta float somehow.
Problem is this is the wrong way. It should float on expansions.

And saying “minis add nothing to gameplay” is flawed. For you is does not. For many collecting things like item IS the gameplay. But the way that works in GW2 where you buy them is not that fun indeed. I was one of those people collection mini’s in other games (so where that was part of my gameplay) but in GW2 I only got the ones I really like.

It’s once again one of the many negative effects of a focus on the Gemstore but exactly like Zorby says a money thing.

Anet works now with a F2P system, meaning they focus on the gem-store for income and then you get this sort of imo bad behavior. Being it temporary available items, the removal of the mini pack, the new hair-site in the gem-store, the living story and so on.

You don’t want this, the only thing you can do is not buying any gems and maybe get your friends not to buy gems but also make clear to Anet that you are willing to pay for a expansion if they stop this sort of bad behavior and add this sort of things to such an expansion. So the mini’s can simply be available ingame in stead of a gem-store what made them kinda boring anyway.

DanH.5879:

i think over 100e so far…
i liked my lol thief, then at the beginning….but now…
a-net devs and the community hated them
now i log ~1 time per week,
heavy nerfs are on their way again, yay, maybe i can happily quit this hame
since the root cause with 25 (bleed) stacks limit was not fixed since forever…
venoms are also getting the short straw…

So first you spend a lot of money on gems and so helping GW2 with there gem-store focus. Then the game changes for the worse for a big part because of that and then you leave leaving us (people who are willing to pay for an expansions but not for gems exactly for this reason) with a game that has gotten worse partly because of your input.

Thanks.

LordThy.4927:

Bought the game on sale 6 months ago, that’s it.

The game has been marketed as Buy2Play, and that’s what I did. If it wasn’t I wouldn’t be here.

I’ve never been a fan of in-game micro-transactions/stores, in many games it has a high chance of becoming the main focus of development with all the other aspects as a mere packaging eye-candy.

Thats the exact same reason why I also do not like a focus on cash-shop also known as the F2P payment model.

It’s also exactly what we have been seeing happening in GW2 over the last year and it’s also exactly the reason why I have been complaining about this specific (and related) subject in the forum for multiple months now.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Pip.2094:

Seriously, they need to earn somewhere and that’s the best add we had in months. They will have my money support for this.
OP…the company won’t pay bills with your charming new characters you know?

But the will pay bills with income of expansions and then they don’t have to do this sort of things.

Totbot.4583:

The game doesn’t have a monthly sub because it has a cash shop.

This isn’t greed. This is an MMO making money through one of the two common avenues that MMO’s make money from; a cash shop or a subscription fee.

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

If there is to be a cashshop, this is what it should be. Cosmetic luxuries. Skins, hairstyles, minis, and other in game luxuries like bank slots, inventory slots, additonal character slots…..thats what should be in there. Its absolutely nothing you need in any way to play the game. Noone can gain any advantage from cashshop use.
And there’s going to be a cashshop no matter what. Even if they did pay expansions, the cashshop will remain. Anyone who thinks they’d introduce expansion with a fee and drop the cashshop entirely is kidding themselves.
Its there to stay and a mainstay in a vast majority of MMO’s. What you would prefer in it? Being able to buy endgame gear? Lets just put Ascended and Legendaries directly in the cashshop. Fractal backpieces too.

Saying the cashshop stuff isn’t available in game isn’t true either. I have the new hairstyles free twice from free makeover kits. You can also farm and exchange in-game currency for gems.
Willing to farm exotics via whatever method or Ascended or Legendaries or Ap’s every couple weeks, but farming a few gold to buy this is too much?

I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

Copestetic.5174:

Just bought $100 worth of Gems. Why? Because I can, and have disposable income. Thanks ANet for something to spend it on. Disregard the QQ’ers.

I always have to laugh seeing this sort of reactions. Telling how much the spend on gems like if they want to show how much money they have and suggesting that people not buying gems don’t have money.. a little like the Apple fan club and there Apple stuff (that take a loan for there phone but don’t even know they do). I always think those people that spend a lot of money on gems do not have a lot of money because they clearly can’t handle money.

Trust me. the fact that you don’t buy gems don’t mean you don’t have money. I have not spend a dime and on gems and what am I asking for? Expansion because I am willing to spend my money on that.

To bad you are ruining the game this way.

Machiavel.6042:

Devata.6589:

Machiavel.6042:

Welcome to capitalism, where human greed runs everywhere, and cash is the only goal !

But going back on subject, is that really surprising ?

Really ?

Like…you could never have seen it coming, even with all the useless junk we see in the gem store and the tokens, and the skins… ?

Come on…

It has nothing to do with capitalism and there is nothing wrong with it. yes a company ties to make money and thats good, not bad. The problem here is the way they try to do that.

I did see it coming for a long time and when it was announced they had no focus on expansions it became very clear. Since then it has been one of the main thinks I been talking about on the forums.

I’m sorry, but this is EXACTLY what capitalism is all about in the end. Making money out of everything. “The problem here is the way they try to do that”, eh ?
You just said, and I quote: “It has nothing to do with capitalism and there is nothing wrong with it”, so how can you say that there’s nothing wrong with it…and then, that there’s a problem how they do it ? I mean, if it’s not wrong, what’s the problem ?

Oh, right, the fact that they’re acting like greedy people. Just like EA with Star Wars, isn’kitten Mark my words, in a not-so-distant future, we’re going to pay for even more stupid stuff that should be in the game for free…

Now, is this a good thing ? If I follow your mindset (and mine in the same way), no it isn’t. Can we do something to change this mindset ? Hard so say.

Then do not pay them with gems. Thats the nice thing about capitalism. It’s just to bad that some people do buy gems and so supporting this sort of crap and messing things up for the game and so other players.

Just don’t buy gems, get people to buy gems and all those thinks that gem-buyers get as a rewards see that as a symbol of shame.. like the mini’s and the kite of shame.

That might help. I know that as long as they make money this way they are not likely to change there tactic so make sure they don’t. It’s that easy.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

GW1 is a fine example. Why does it have to be a real MMO? Because it requires multiple servers and needs to be managed.. well so did GW1. In a way GW1 did not fit into any category but for this it easily fits.

And how many other are there.. none thats why I haven’t really played any other mmo’s but then start when GW2 came with it box sales.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Because no one wants them to put game-breaking P2W things in the gem store. If they can’t put that stuff in, they have to stock the gem store with convenience and cosmetic items. The box sale got you everything that was included at launch, not everything that will or can ever be added. I’m sorry, but I don’t find the idea, “They can only put things in the gem store if I don’t want them.” to have merit.

You mean like the infinitive coin for SAB and the vote booster during politics?

But no when they do not put in such things they are not forced to put in these thinks. They can generate the money with expansions. (Like they did with GW1)

They have multiple roads to money, they just pick the wrong one.

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Then it’s not free content is it?

And yes they do need money to make content. But there are multiple ways to do that and a focus on the gem-store in not a good one in my opinion.

I went for GW2 mainly because they asked money for the game and because they worked with a B2P system with GW1 so I expected the same in GW2. I did know they had a gem-store but that does not mean a cash-shop focus. It’s that cash-shop focus why I never like F2P games and now GW2 is going the same rout as every F2P game.

Really really bad for a game as GW2.

Machiavel.6042:

Welcome to capitalism, where human greed runs everywhere, and cash is the only goal !

But going back on subject, is that really surprising ?

Really ?

Like…you could never have seen it coming, even with all the useless junk we see in the gem store and the tokens, and the skins… ?

Come on…

It has nothing to do with capitalism and there is nothing wrong with it. yes a company ties to make money and thats good, not bad. The problem here is the way they try to do that.

I did see it coming for a long time and when it was announced they had no focus on expansions it became very clear. Since then it has been one of the main thinks I been talking about on the forums.

eisberg.2379:

I do not see why it should be given for free at character selection /shrug. Getting mad at this reminds me of the several customers I had who were “disgusted” that we charged extra to hook up their DvD players and other devices to their TV, always stating to us it should be free since it is all related to their television.

I could understand being upset if it was a subscription game, but this isn’t a subscription game.

Well maybe many people want it to be a B2P game like GW1 was. And thats why they are mad about this. I don’t care about this in particular. I am mad about this bad behavior in general. If it is this thing with the hair or the LS or the mini’s or the presents for gems or P2W items like finite coin for SAB and, gold driven system and so on.

Just let me pay for expansions if you want my money and stop this sort of things. If I like that I would have gone for a F2P game that also did not charge money for the initial game.

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

Arkham Creed.7358:

So in tomorrow’s big update we get….

Long requested cosmetic fixes for charr: zero.

Long requested cosmetic fixes for engineer kits: zero.

New hairstyles few people have asked for: Approximately thirty six.

Arena Net: “Why fix the existing content in our game when we can just add more?”

They can sell the haircuts with the gem-store. The rest does not generate income.

Thats what you get with a F2P / game that focuses on the gem-store for income in stead on for example expansions.

But in there defense, they also add a new dungeon-path. Thats something many people asked for.

kokiman.2364:

Devata.6589:

kokiman.2364:

Devata.6589:

Mif.3471:

Avatara.1042:

Ahahahahahahahahaha! Good one! Suggesting Anet will not milk everyone for gems? Comedy gold!

Yeah, what a bunch of scumbags. How dare they release an MMO without the usual $15 monthly fee and sell optional cosmetic items to pay their staff.

In stead of making money with expansion to pay there staff and have a good game.. Indeed.

Every 2 weeks ~5$ dollar for each player or every year 50$ for each player… Do the math.

It’s more like every month 50 dollar from a few players or every year / year and a half 50 dollar from almost all players.

The math is hard to do without the exact numbers but overall I think it will all be close. Biggest advantage of expansions generated income is that the game might have a longer time-spawn so it will generate money for a longer time and because ingame decisions are not based on the idea of getting people to buy gems the game itself can be better.

I can tell you for a fact that Every 2 weeks ~5$ dollar for each player is incorrect because I will not spend money on gems.. I will spend money on expansions.. IF!! they turn back to a focus on that in stead of on the gem-store.

And then you have the player that spends at 60$ to buy an unlimited pickaxe for all of his characters

That whas the 50 a month I was talking about.

xephire.8324:

Devata.6589:

Mif.3471:

Avatara.1042:

Ahahahahahahahahaha! Good one! Suggesting Anet will not milk everyone for gems? Comedy gold!

Yeah, what a bunch of scumbags. How dare they release an MMO without the usual $15 monthly fee and sell optional cosmetic items to pay their staff.

In stead of making money with expansion to pay there staff and have a good game.. Indeed.

I beg to differ.You pay them to make more cash shop to pay for them to make more cash shop and a bad game.

You quoted me but I think it is mend for somebody else? because what I mend there is exactly what you referred to.. Pay gems to get more gem-store focus… bad imo or pay expansions to get more focus on expansion / the game. Good in my opinion.

Morrigan.2809:

Devata.6589:

Morrigan.2809:

maddoctor.2738:

You get a free Total Makeover Kit every 5k Achievement Points, go get all those points. Also, you get 400 free gems every 5k Achievement Points which means you can get a second TMK if you so want.

You can also get them from map completion, dailies and from BL chests.
They are just 250 gems if you don’t manage to get a free one.

I use hair kits almost as much as transmute stones

And to the bitter person who called it a kite of shame, sorry you are having such a bad day, I’ll think of you when I fly my kite with my new hair- which I will get with my free hair kit :P

Thats me. Nice of you, you think of me. Kite of shame is not a name I came up with but I did adopt it. You see, I don’t like the way GW2 is going and much of that is related to the focus on the gem-store. By buying gems you support them in making the game worse with the gem-store focus so the items people get for free because they buy gems become items of shame. So there now is the kite of shame and the mini of shame. Of course this only counts if you get it for free because you did buy gems.

I do not like the way the game is going with vertical progression

I am not sure what you mean by “gem store focus”- they are selling fluff in the store- it is a BtP game that is supported by it’s sore.
People have been asking for fluff in the store since the game launched since cosmetics and toys are for fun and do not make your character more powerful.

So now it is a mark of shame to support a game that I love?

By buying gems I help to support a game we do not pay a sub for- if Anet wants to give me a kite for that, awesome.

As for hair kits- I have gotten at least 4 from the game without paying anything and I am still a bit short of 5000 AP.
Same goes for BL salvage kits and trans- stones- why would I not support a game that literally hands me gemstore items just for playing?
They have yet to force me to actually buy anything- unlike a certain game I could name that made me pay real money on top of a sub to just play a new class.

The whole LS is based around that fluff and I don’t like the LS so much (the idea of a living story is oke, but the implementation is bad but fits the gem-sales). Get people to log in and buy items. It’s more then whats just sold, it’s that the that game decisions are based on the question “how to we get people to buy gems”. They are a company that tries to make money, if they make money with gems thats the question they ask. If they make money with expansions the question would be “how to get people to buy the expansions”. Personally I think I would like the result gamewise of the second question over the first question. Also the mini’s (to be fair thats has been the way since release) are not fun to gather because they are mainly gem-store related and having a haircut sold in the gem-store in stead of in a barber ingame. It’s that sort of things I am talking about.

Besides it’s not only fluff. The Politic vote booster can even been seen as P2W just as the infinitive coin for SAB. But most is indeed fluff still ingame decisions are based on selling gems.

“It is a B2P game that is supported by it’s sore.”
It should be a B2P game imo but it really it’s more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) because like you say it gets it’s money from the ingame store. A real B2P game gets it’s main income from game sales.. that includes regular expansion. So if it was B2P it is not supported by it’s store but by expansion sales. F2P games are supported by it’s store.

So now it is a mark of shame to support a game that I love?

You see it as supporting I see it as destroying because like I explained I don’t like the outcome of the gem-store focus. For you, you don’t have to see it as shame but from my viewpoint it is.

maddoctor.2738:

Devata.6589:

The list I linked clearly showed many F2P games back when GW1 was released so indeed I’m really not sure why you can have a discussion about that. The facts are there.

All I see on the list you posted are mostly games that are F2P NOW, not when Guild Wars 1 was released. Most of those, where P2P at the release of Guild Wars 1 or are/were Freemium (gear/items on the Cash Shop, not just cosmetics)

There where more P2P games back then but there were also multiple F2P game, but the real issue here (or what Vayne was talking about) is that GW1 was unique because is was B2P.

GW2 could still be unique being B2P but it uses more of a F2P system like many games.

Like Vayne said yes time did change but the thing that GW1 was unique with is B2P and GW2 would not be able to be unique with it anymore is flawed because B2P is still pretty unique.. What is strange because it really is the best system imho. Main reason companies don’t go for it is because they think they make more money with other payment models.

And before somebody tels me.. well those people for sure know more about that then you.. Well those same people also went for P2P over the last 9 years and I have been saying for many years that P2P would not work anymore. Those so called professionals where wrong about that so they might also now be wrong about B2P bringing in less money then F2P. The big difference however is that it does require more of a commitment to the game.

And what you sell in the cash-shop does not really change your payment model. Freemium like you say still generates income from the cash-shop like many F2P games do today. GW1 generated money with expansions. Thats the difference.

Azala Yar.7693:

BadHabitZz.1856:

For some players might be LS reason to quit but for different reasons then missing certain parts of it. They fear that LS updates are only content which GW2 ever gets so they just said to themselves “WvW is zerg vs zerg i dont enjoy it that much, future of PvE content is LS, i dont like it that much either so what do i do for fun in this game?” ……farewell GW2….

I have 6 max level characters, first two were fun to level by just doing all the PVE quests which gives you 92% of the map explored. Of course each new character was less fun as the content is just the same.

I didn’t like the living story from the start, worse were the sonic-periscopes that you could not avoid as they would not ignore you. LS was just cheap throw away content based on achievements, achievements being about the cheapest content there is.

Jumping puzzles seemed like strange content to have in an MMO, you do them once and there!s little reason to do them again,because once you know how to do them they,re just so easy.

Mini games another bad idea where mmo’s are concerned if those mini game impose on the VR world. Like that retro game with the block mobs that were seeded around the VR world.

Other issues were boss hunts and overflows, got stuck in overflows quite often even though I only played on 1 server. People farming bosses because let’s face world drops were non existent at least that,s what I’d whilst levelling 6 character that had done all world quests. Also there was no skill needed in killing world bosses as there were so many people killing them. Just wait around until the boss showed up kill it and hopefully get a exotic item.

I finally gave up when I started farming world mobs and found in this game even that was more boring than other mmo’s due to very poor drop rates and no interesting drops.

I love jumping puzzles but you are correct that once you know them they become easy. An easy fix for this is working with many moving objects you have to jump on and making the movement random. This is not hard to do ffom a software engineer viewpoint. Then make the puzzle extremely hard and because movement is random it will stay hard.. you can’t learn it. End with a good reward and chance for a unique reward and you have a great JP that will stay great after multiple times.

Mini games are good from a role playing viewpoint and to have things to do with friends. But for that they should be persistent in the game at places where you can expect them and you should be able to join as a group.

The no interesting drops it partly because they want a lot of interesting stuff in the gem-store or as a grind.. Get tokens our laurels or… However they would have done it like we did see in Molten facility. There was a very rare drop for a cool mini and a cool backpack and a special recipe and the overall loot was also good. Besides that the dungeon was not to long but fun and challenging. Thats the sort of stuff we need to see everywhere.

kokiman.2364:

Devata.6589:

Mif.3471:

Avatara.1042:

Ahahahahahahahahaha! Good one! Suggesting Anet will not milk everyone for gems? Comedy gold!

Yeah, what a bunch of scumbags. How dare they release an MMO without the usual $15 monthly fee and sell optional cosmetic items to pay their staff.

In stead of making money with expansion to pay there staff and have a good game.. Indeed.

Every 2 weeks ~5$ dollar for each player or every year 50$ for each player… Do the math.

It’s more like every month 50 dollar from a few players or every year / year and a half 50 dollar from almost all players.

The math is hard to do without the exact numbers but overall I think it will all be close. Biggest advantage of expansions generated income is that the game might have a longer time-spawn so it will generate money for a longer time and because ingame decisions are not based on the idea of getting people to buy gems the game itself can be better.

I can tell you for a fact that Every 2 weeks ~5$ dollar for each player is incorrect because I will not spend money on gems.. I will spend money on expansions.. IF!! they turn back to a focus on that in stead of on the gem-store.

Vol.5241:

Why stop at giving hairstyles for free?

Lets bring back free transfers, free minis, free keys, free everything!!

I’m sure Anet is totally willing to work for free.

After all, the consumer is ALWAYS right, and I’m entitled to being treated like their #1 customer.

amirite?

Lets bring back free transfers, free minis, free keys, free everything!!

Well a few mini’s may be in the gem-store but most should indeed be in the open world behind bosses or random drops or drops from 1 type of mob or created with crafts. Keys should indeed also bee in the game.. Everything.

No transfers might still cost gems, and extra char slots (then again they should have a char slot for every profession).

“I’m sure Anet is totally willing to work for free.”

Well I am sure they won’t.. They can then make there money with regular expansions. Thats much better for the game! And they still generate there income. They happy, we happy and a more chance of a good game.

There are multiple customers, it’s just to bad that the gem-buyers kinda mess things up for the people that want a good game with everything in-game and are willing to pay for it with expansions.

Morrigan.2809:

maddoctor.2738:

You get a free Total Makeover Kit every 5k Achievement Points, go get all those points. Also, you get 400 free gems every 5k Achievement Points which means you can get a second TMK if you so want.

You can also get them from map completion, dailies and from BL chests.
They are just 250 gems if you don’t manage to get a free one.

I use hair kits almost as much as transmute stones

And to the bitter person who called it a kite of shame, sorry you are having such a bad day, I’ll think of you when I fly my kite with my new hair- which I will get with my free hair kit :P

Thats me. Nice of you, you think of me. Kite of shame is not a name I came up with but I did adopt it. You see, I don’t like the way GW2 is going and much of that is related to the focus on the gem-store. By buying gems you support them in making the game worse with the gem-store focus so the items people get for free because they buy gems become items of shame. So there now is the kite of shame and the mini of shame. Of course this only counts if you get it for free because you did buy gems.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

haviz.1340:

I’m sure some of anet developers are sad as we all are. They wanted to make an epic mmo with esport but instead they are forced to create facebook games because metrics say so. Sadly.

Maybe they should start building a game for their players instead of stock holders.

Without stockholders there wouldn’t be a game at all.

Look at GW1, you can do both. And thank you sherlock.

Guild Wars 1 was made at a different time. A time with a lot less competition. All you need to do is look at the number of multiplayer fantasy games that were out when Guild Wars 1 came out that didn’t have a monthly subscription. There were none. Guild Wars 1 had no competition. There weren’t free MMOs everywhere you looked, with much more clout to get the name out there. No free Age of Conan, no free Lotro, no free Dungeons and Dragons Online, no free Superhero MMOs, no free Star Trek or Star Wars MMO.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand that Guild Wars 1 launched at a certain time and place, and frankly, it was far to intelligent a game to ever truly appeal to the masses. It doesn’t say much for the masses, mind you, but it’s what I believe.

It’s the WoW, EQ equation. EQ was probably the better game with the smaller audience. WoW made a lot of stuff accessible (read dumbed it down) and suddenly there were more players.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game. I won’t say otherwise.

But it was always going to be a niche game.

I have to disagree
First of all see this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games

And about free to play. Well GW1 was not F2P but B2P and how many games are now really B2P? GW1. GW2 could have gone for B2P and would still be pretty unique with there payment model.

Besides that, most of the games you name where games that started as P2P and failed with that having to turn to F2P. They don’t have very big playerbases and so aren’t very big competition. In fact since GW2 release the only big other releases are just now coming in. Other big players in the market are games like WoW and EvE but they already existed when GW1 was released if you would also look at other payment models.

The list I linked clearly showed many F2P games back when GW1 was released so indeed I’m really not sure why you can have a discussion about that. The facts are there.

And secondly, saying something is B2P because you buy the game is flawed.. We are taking about the payment model that means.. how does a company generates most of the income. What is there focus for income!

F2P games make there money mainly with a in game cash-shop. (Like GW2 is doing now)

P2P games make there money mainly with subscriptions. (WoW, EvE)

B2P games make there money mainly with the sales of the game that include expansions for ongoing income. (GW1)

GW1 Was a B2P game as it focused on the income of the game sales including expansion.

GW2 is at this moment more of a F2P game because at this moment it focus mainly on the cash-shop for income. I hope they shift back to B2P because it’s not good for the game but nevertheless at this moment it’s more F2P.

WoW is P2P as it focuses in subscription.

It’s funny how some people go against this because you had to pay for GW2 to get is so it is B2P.. But they do agree WoW is P2P, well guess what, you had to buy WoW so then it’s a B2P game isn’kitten no. We are talking about the payment model and so we are talking about how a company generates its main income.

GW1 was B2P and at that time there where many P2P and F2P games.

GW2 is now F2P and there are still some P2P games but not many and there are many F2P games. So if GW2 would like to be unique in that point (what you basically say) they have to go back to B2P. I think they need to turn back to B2P because it’s better for the game.. But there payment model now is based in income generated buy the in game cash-shop.. know as the F2P model.

marnick.4305:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

A lot of the newer content isn’t temporary, though. Tequatl is here. The new dungeon path coming is permanent too. And some of the stuff, like SAB is recurring like a festival.

It seems the new dungeon path is replacing an old dungeon path. Most peculiar logic being employed there. Most peculiar, indeed.

The path being removed was the most unpopular, most hated, least played dungeon path in the game. It has been replaced by a path, made by the MF/AR team. I have good hopes that this path is going to be better than any F/U fix could have been. To sacrifice bad content to implement good content is, in my very humble opinion, a good thing.

MF and AR was good because it was short but still challenging. People hate Arah because it’s so long. The devs compared this dungeon to Arah and said it was long. Maybe they did not understand them-self why people liked MF and AR but making it long does not make it better, it makes it worse so it’s not strange that people are not happy about what they now know about the new dungeon. But like I said they also added good thinks. I think the puzzle is nice, rewards are nice, no cut-scenes are nice however if the dungeon is to long it people will still dislike it.

They also said reward would be higher because it was longer but reward should be better because it’s challenger. Remember MF that you could do over and over again for one gold (not just one time) and then with AR there was the possibility to kill the boss in a x time for an achievements but don’t make that an achievement make sure that buy killing his faster your drop change for a rare mini, skin, more gold, recipe or in the future mount will go up. That you reward for skills. Not for the time willing to spend inside an very long dungeon.

Edit:
LanfearShadowflame.3189
See what I typed here. Typed it before seeing your comment.

colesy.8490:

Devata.6589:

Are you sure it takes them 30 min? I think they stopped half way. What I do not like about many dungeons in GW2 is that they are not that hard but that they are so very long.

SE p1 – 4 minutes
COF p1 – 5 1/2 minutes
HOTW p1 – 8 (?) minutes
AC p1/2/3 – 15(?) minutes each
COE p1/2/3 – 12-15 minutes each

Molten Facility – a bunch of unskippable dialogue and a tunnel sequence which drags things out.

There are many paths that take very long and yes there are also shorter paths.

Molten Facility was a short but challenging and rewarding dungeon that was fun. I agree, you should have been able to skip the dialogues.

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1, in five years, I could count the times I heard trash mob used on one hand. No one called trash mobs trash in Guild Wars 1, because they could drop black and white dyes, or lockpicks in Eye of the North or anywhere in hard mode.

The idea that some mobs are trash and can’t reward you is ludicrous. It comes from games where that is literally not true. But you can get a rare, exotic or even a precursor from a trash mob.

People who skip trash mobs and complain about not getting drops at all make me laugh.

You can get a rare, exotic or even a precursor from every single mob in the game. That doesnt mean that you will get one. Isnt the chance to get a precursor from a chest higher than from a random mob. Also the time you waste on killing trash is not worth the measly chance you get of a precursor.

And this path was compared to arah by Dulfy / Devs (dufly is pretty much a pr person for gw2 ) and said that it was challenging and skipping was impossible. First off skipping is almost essential to completing arah in a fairly good time. You go and aggro every single risen in that room before lupi with a pug group and tell me how much fun it was and whether it was worth it. Do that 1000000 times and tell me how many precursors you got.

I also did hear the dev say that it was like Arah and I was really surprised about that. Like I said before, the problem with many dungeon in GW2 is that they are very long. Challenging is fine and if it takes long because they are challenging it’s also fine but if a dungeon is very long because it’s literally very longs thats not fun. There is a reason why Arah path 4 is the most hated dungeon path in this game, so when the dev said Arah I was really stunned. I will see how the path is when I have played it (not complaining yet) and some things are for sure a step forward, like special armor drops.. thats something that really missed in other dungeons, maybe a rare mini and special recipe would also be nice but the whole mini marked has sadly been destroyed in GW2 because of previous decisions made.

But if it really is a long dungeon like Arah you can already know people won’t like it and I really wonder why somebody in Anet would have come up with that.

A question.. The path thats go’s away F/U is that the path with all the spiders on the end?

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

And some of the stuff, like SAB is recurring like a festival.

so its temporary? Spring comes every year, doesnt mean its permanent
the new dungeon path took over an old one that was fun. The new one looks boring as hell and it only took the devs 30 min to finish meaning for pug groups it will take 5 min + 7 min of watching the unskippable npcs talking scenes.

Are you sure it takes them 30 min? I think they stopped half way. What I do not like about many dungeons in GW2 is that they are not that hard but that they are so very long.

The contrary is what I liked so much about MF and the other temporary dungeon (forgot the name). They where challenging but short, could still take you long if you where not good at them but the length itself was short..

Making a very long dungeon is not fun.. you do that once and then never again. A short but challenging and rewarding dungeon however you are more willing to do again. So I hope new dungeons will be shorter, not longer but also more challenging.

What pat will go away? I did see part of the twitch channel and I hearth them say that the path would count towards you total score for dungeon completion so you would be able to do this path in stead of Arah path 4. But if it replaces another path you would not be able to do so. So are you really sure another path will be removed?

Vayne.8563:

A lot of the newer content isn’t temporary, though. Tequatl is here. The new dungeon path coming is permanent too. And some of the stuff, like SAB is recurring like a festival.

Oow heey Vayne

Anet has indeed been working on that a little. It’s still not like it should be because we still see some temporary rewards and achievements with Tequatl but it’s already better then before.

Now we can’t know if Anet will stay steering in this good direction. I lost the trust to just believe that without seeing it but he changes towards more permanent content where partly because many people (like me) on this forums complained about the temporary content..

Remember.. you where there to defend Anet telling how great temporary content was. Now you are here defending the fact that this new content is permanent. Thats not thanks to you.

And in the meanwhile you haven’t had time to play yourself.

My suggestion is to do something with the suggestions.

The suggestion-page is one of the most important topics on the forum next to general ans bugs but it has never really had a lot of attention but it only got less and less. When going back in the pages I need to go back 32 pages and then I have seen 2 comments by Anet staff members.

Yeah I know you guys read but can’t react on everything however if there are 2 reactions (And really one of them is very very old, it;s just a topic that keeps getting back) it means this topic does not get a lot of attention.

And I do understand that Anet can’t possible implement every single idea somebody has.. oow lets put in purple ears or whatever while there are some really nice idea but this topic is so important because it also discusses missing features. Features that really should be in the game but that arent. You could see them as bugs but because you say “you need to add this function” it becomes a suggestion.

There a lot of that sort missing features being discussed here and thats why it should get much more attention. That might also prevent that guilds have to wait more then a year to finally have the option to edit the message of the day. Something that should have been fixed back in the beta.

Adine.2184:

Galphar.3901:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Guild Wars 2 is a PvE game, with some pvp as a bonus. Just the way I like it. But I can understand the frustration for pvp/wvw players, the game could use some more pvp/wvw content.

The game could use actual Guild Wars. GvG and HA were the top 2 features in GW and they are nonexistent in GW2.

Which you knew or should have known didn’t exist in GW2

The name Guild Wars is based on lore not on mechanics

The fact that Guild Wars is related to the lore does not mean there should not be more guild-related stuff like GvG, guild halls and raid instances.

So nobody should have known that.

Fractions would also not be bad. It would add an extra level to the game where you have have an open-world housing system and castles you build and defent with the guild / server / fraction.

champ.7021:

it would be nice if people who bought a self style / makeover kit in the last two weeks got a free one. It would be like how they gave free kites to people who bought gems that one month

Ah the kite of of shame for the gem-buyers. But that would only be fair if you could only use it on the character you already used the kit before.

However there should be really a ingame barber where you can change it for about 15 silver.