Guild Wars 2

I agree with most but “Especially appreciative would be those of us who support the game by paying into GW2 (and work hard in RL for it!), so that those who don’t buy anything can play for free (aside from the initial game cost).”

This is a B2P game. People who buy the game support the game and pay for the cost. The gem-store income should only be a nice extra. Thats why it is a B2P game. Nobody is playing this game for free or anything close to that.

You are mixing up F2P games with B2P games. You can even wonder if the gem-buyers are in a way not doing the opposite. If the RNG / gem-store focus did not work (for now) it would not be in. But people do buy stuff so it is in. However the decisions that are made because of it are not good for the game and might harm it in the long run.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

Except that it’s not the same thing as the original Guild Wars. You can’t possibly compare a lobby game to a full MMO and you certainly can’t compare a staff of 50 to a staff of over 300 people. Nor can you compare the speed at which content is provided, whether you like the content or not.

If the only way they can fund a major B2P game is with a cash shop with RMT like GW2 then the funding model will die.

Yeah if. But I do not believe that. I think this is just to make ‘more’ money. And I do believe it works… on the short run. Then again, it is most likely bad for them in the long run if they do not do that different.

It’s called B2P because it’s funded with buying the game (and expansions). Fund it with something else and you can’t really name it a B2P game anymore and the fact is that for a lot of people the reason to give GW2 a try is because it was B2P in stead of subscription or F2P.

tolunart.2095:

LOL I’m not complaining about it, and neither are most of the people playing the game instead of ripping it apart here.

You are not, don’t know if ‘most’ that are playing also don’t, but many that play or already left do / did.

It has nothing to do with ripping it apart here. Just always saying everything is fine or not talking about it here and just leaving is more harmful. Letting your voice hear here might help the game to get better. I do hope they will do something with the comments.

tolunart.2095:

Devata.6589:

I am getting a little bid tired of this “thats also in another MMO so it’s bad” attitude.
.

The thing is, the stuff in other MMOs that you want put into this game ARE the bad parts. The stuff you want taken out are the things I like about this game.

I believe there are enough people out there who like the game the way it is, that it can survive without all the people who want it to become something it’s not. Hopefully the devs agree with me, but if not then I will continue searching for a game that suits me.

Ah yeah. The RNG and the gem-store focus is the good part of GW2. That is why so many people are complaining about it.

Well and I believe there are just a few people who like the RNG and gem-store focus in GW2 and they will leave when all the other people left because it’s empty.

Oow another one.

There are horse carriages, and cars (BC). But no horses, no mounds and you can’t drive in the cars.

And then go to a bar. There you can buy a nice glass of…. oow no wait.. there you can buy a Leather Bag, Salvaging kit’s, Sickles, Axes and Picks

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

This thread is meant to be humorous and relaxed, please refrain from posting complains here.

If you have a complain, feel free to post it in a thread with a cosntructive discussion and ideas that we can forward to the team.

Thanks

Well I am not so sure it’s pure humorous. There is a serious background to this.

Yeah true, GW2 (basically all games) should benefit from some more logic.

In WvW you place siege weapons to defend.. enemy comes, siege weapons dissolved in thin air.

Logic solution: Don’t let it dissolve in thin air but give it collision detection so you can not place 2 siege weapons inside each other. That should fix the 100 arrow-card in a keep problem.

Wanna get rid of zerg? Collision detection on people in WvW. Logically it make more sense and would help a lot.

Just some more logic would fix many problems (in many games).

tolunart.2095:

You’re solution, then, is to tear the game apart and turn it into every other MMO on the market?

Why don’t you play any other MMO on the market instead, and let this game be what it is?

This part would then be like some (not all) other MMO’s indeed. But there are many aspects of GW2 that are the same as other MMO’s (should we then remove all those aspects? Or why not make it a FPS, at least then it does not look like any other MMO).

I am getting a little bid tired of this “thats also in another MMO so it’s bad” attitude.

The way it now works is also like many other MMO’s on the market.. Many F2P MMO’s do it this way (this or pay 2 win). So if they then copy something I would say do not copy this from the F2P MMO games.

Just because something is differed (and this isn’t, but still) does not make it good and just because something is the same it does not make it bad. The trick is to take the best of all and something more. GW2 has many good things and a few bad things. Sadly the bad thinks might be a game-breaker for many people and they are indeed doing what you are saying.. they switch to other mmo’s. I do give GW2 some more time to get it right.

LHound.8964:

I believe that nowadays everyone complains about RNG, just because they do. In this game is getting ridiculous epic proportions. Let’s look at some cases:

- In other games how many grinded a dungeon just to get a piece of equipment that still never dropped?
- In other games how many of you crafted items with proc. effect, that never did proc?

These are RNG effects too!

RNG needs to exist in games. As such, there are players who are favored and others that aren’t.

Yeah but with that RNG you can play the game (Doing dungeons, killing mobs) to eventually get your item. Here most of it is temporary so it’s now or never (at least thats the idea the marketing people wants you to get) and mostly it is more farmable. Here you need to get gold and then have enough gold before the temporary content gets deleted and then hope it drops. Or pay with cash.. but whats the fun about that? You play a game to play it. Overall people don’t want to farm for a currency to then buy something, they want to farm for the material and a currency as an extra option would then be nice but no need. See SAB and MF.

I don’t know what forest you guys mean. Have any screen-shots?

Anyway, I will look for some MMO’s Forest to show what I had in mind.

First a screen-shot of a real forest:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Standing-stone-state-forest-tn1.jpg

http://lotro-wiki.com/images/6/69/The_Old_Forest.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070916013635/gw/images/9/9e/Facet_of_Death.jpg

http://pewpewlazerz.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ashenvale.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2011/04/mainimg1.jpg

And when talking about stretch out empty places I mean this sort of stuff:

http://room42.wikispaces.com/file/view/savanna_2.jpg/33513641/savanna_2.jpg

http://pewpewlazerz.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/mulgore1.jpg

http://pewpewlazerz.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/barrens.jpg

http://www.electricblueskies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SWTOR-Star-Wars-Old-Republic-1080p-Wallpaper-©JTGP-01-Dune-Sea-Tatooine-Star-Wars-Desert.png

http://img8.mmo.mmo4arab.com/feature/archeage/worldzones/rainbowfield.jpg

That sort of area’s I really mis in GW2 and if I see how beautifully some area’s in GW2 are they could also make this great.. To bad the instance based maps are making those last examples almost a no-go.

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

And changing a successful model for the sake of change is not the path to success, either. Unless that’s how you run your own successful company?.

I agree, I said in response to another poster that either extreme is to be avoided. But this example is simply recognizing that GW and GW2 are different games and should be treated differently. Treating GW2 like GW will not be successful because it is a bigger game, with a bigger staff, more ambitious plans, and more expenses. Obviously they have already decided that pushing out an expansion every six months is not going to work.

…So your solution is to make crafting nodes work like they did in games released ten years ago? I see.

Um, no. I didn’t offer a solution. I actually prefer GW2 to Rift’s loot system, including crafting nodes and the TP. So were I to make a suggestion, it would be that other games should follow GW2’s example.

Other people see this as a problem. I don’t.

But if people are complaining about RNG / gem-store focus they are not complaining about the ‘normal’ way you loot stuff or the crafting nodes. Is more the fact that you can’t really farm many mats so need to farm for gold, (what many people find boring) and then buy the mats and the temporary content (mainly in the gem-store).

Solution would not be that hard. Do it more like MF and SaB and make mats farmable. Put also more stuff in to farm.. but thats a discussion about end-content not gem-store focus / RNG. So people can farm the stuff they want / need in stead of farming for gold. Then stop with temporary content (in the game or in the gem-store) but just put items in the gem-store people are willing to buy. If they are willing to spend the money they will and those who won;t spend money in gems (or not all at once) will also stay and play. In addition make sure there is an expansion every 1 year. Maybe a very very big expansion with a break of 2 years. That should keep people happy and should bring enough money in I think. If it is really true that they need to use the aggressive gem-store focus (to make the money to keep the game running) they now do (what some people suggest) that would mean this game would be gone in a year because they will not be able to hold people much longer with this tactic. I simply don’t believe that.

They just do it to make more money, not to be able to keep it running.. and that I totally understand but by doing so they might destroy there income for the long run. If they don’t change that tactic fast enough.

But I starting to repeat myself so I think it’s time to leave this thread.

tolunart.2095:

I understand and disagree.

Of course they are not focused on the long run. A subscription-based MMO is focused on the long run because they make their money from X players paying monthly fees for Y months. The longer they get players to stay on the hamster wheel, the more money they make.

Cash-shop based games are focused on the short term, because if you aren’t interested in the Jade weapons set, then the Steampunk weapons set might get you to whip out your credit card. Or the next set, or the next.

Yeah but There are subscription-based games, there are F2P games (Cash-shops) and there are B2P games. I would say B2P games should go for the long run and GW2 is a B2P game but with there current focus on the cash-shop it indeed looks like they are more or more focusing on the long run probably not understanding that by doing that they might destroy it for them-self in the long run. Now it is not to late yet but it’s really time to start rethinking there actions and hopefully they will do that in time.

It is like all those subscription-based MMO’s of the last few years.. The people behind that did see Blizz getting very very rich with that so they also focused on that, not understanding that it would not work anymore. Now all? those games failed (I personally can’t name one of them that has not been going F2P or totally stopped by now) so the wrong focus does more harm then good.

tolunart.2095:

Devata.6589:

If I am right they make a lot of money now, but it would be bad in the long run. So if they focus mostly on there current income then no they would not change something. I think it’s more about logical thinking then the current numbers. While people leave also new people are comming. They numbers do not show what people are leaving and what for a people are comming. A slow decrease in active numbers can be easily be waved away because they are making more money now. So it all depends on the focus of the manager(s) how they would react on some numbers. BTW it’s more NCSoft is a Public company so you might be able to get those numbers if you really want them.. I mean buy stocks and you are basically one of the managers.

But, as a publicly traded company, are the people in charge more concerned with this quarter, or ten years from now? What about the stockholders?

Well, thats the question isn’t it.

If it was my company I would go for the long run but this company is from ‘nobody’ or form ‘everybody’ so those making the decisions might be more interested in the short run.

I think Anet isn’t.. If I am correct Anet is basically a private company that now ‘works for NCsoft’ so us talking about this might help, but in the end NCsoft makes the decisions.

tolunart.2095:

Devata.6589:

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

And I don’t think they are scaring anyone away from the cash shop. No company is going to build their business plan on the assumption that every player will spend money on the cash shop, the fact that you can convert in-game currency to gems means that some portion of the player base will NEVER spend a dime more than the cost of the box.

They have the sales records and such, we don’t. So it’s impossible to say how much people spend there, but we do have indications such as the spikes in gold-gems conversion when an item is introduced like the permanent harvesting tools, and the reports to stockholders about profits from different games. All indications are that this is a successful business model, so why would they throw it away to go back to something they did almost a decade ago?

I think you misunderstand me. I don’t say the cash shop is scaring people away. I say the focus on that is. And with that I mean decisions made in the game that are made to try to get people to use the cash shop. The gold-driven stuff, the RNG, and the temporary available content in the gem-store.

And yes we can get those numbers if we want and yes they are making money but what is there focus about that. Making money now or making money in the long run? The whole financial crisis showed that many managers where only looking in the short run so who tells me thats not the case here?

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

Well I don’t have the numbers but I have a big guild and I am active on 2 fan forums and this forums. Judging by that they scare away many people. And I know you see complainers more then none complainers but like I said, I am also active on some fan-sites / forums and I now see the real ‘fanboys’ saying they might leave soon. Besides that, once you lose players you will lose more players because they don’t want to be in empty worlds so it only get worse. I do think that in the short run they are indeed making some proper money with this tactic but if they keep doing this there is no long run and for an MMO the real profit is in the long run I would say.

But the people who post on forums also represent a very small percentage of the player base, and I know from long experience, it’s not necessarily indicative of most players. It’s just not that easy to look at specific subsets of the population and predict what the big population is doing.

Put it another way. Anet has exact figures on how many people stopped buying, how many people continue buying and how many people don’t log in. They KNOW. We’re guessing.

Don’t you think if their data showed you were right, they would change something?

If I am right they make a lot of money now, but it would be bad in the long run. So if they focus mostly on there current income then no they would not change something. I think it’s more about logical thinking then the current numbers. While people leave also new people are comming. They numbers do not show what people are leaving and what for a people are comming. A slow decrease in active numbers can be easily be waved away because they are making more money now. So it all depends on the focus of the manager(s) how they would react on some numbers. BTW it’s more NCSoft is a Public company so you might be able to get those numbers if you really want them.. I mean buy stocks and you are basically one of the managers.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

There big question is, as always, what percentage of people are scared away, compared with a small percentage of people that spend stupid money on stuff.

A game can get away with a much smaller playerbase, if people are throwing money at it. So even if people are scared away it may not mean that much. It depends how many people are happy to pay.

In my opinion there are way too many of them.

Well I don’t have the numbers but I have a big guild and I am active on 2 fan forums and this forums. Judging by that they scare away many people. And I know you see complainers more then none complainers but like I said, I am also active on some fan-sites / forums and I now see the real ‘fanboys’ saying they might leave soon. Besides that, once you lose players you will lose more players because they don’t want to be in empty worlds so it only get worse. I do think that in the short run they are indeed making some proper money with this tactic but if they keep doing this there is no long run and for an MMO the real profit is in the long run I would say.

Riiko.4512:

I think some of the best looking places can be found in Jumping Puzzles. Like the hidden one in Mt. Maelstrom. City-wise, Rata Sum’s interior is pretty neat.

The worst places would be branded lands and Orr.

Yeah that JP in Mt. Maelstrom has also a very nice look. Probably my second best spot. Up there with the wind and grass moving because of the wind. Thats also great!

God Of Fissures.8627:

That area on the Ring of Fire with a patch of lush, green grass and a tall tropical tree.

Definitely one of the prettier places in Tyria. To find thriving flora in such a hostile environment was awesome to me.

Note how the OP didn’t say which Tyria to post about (GW1 or GW2)

Well it’s a GW2 forum But stuff like that (desert or whatever and then one green spot) I also always like very much.

tolunart.2095:

Erasculio.2914:

Tolmos.8395:

If you have another suggestion on how they can afford to keep the servers up without us needing to buy gems for cosmetic things that we want in the game, please by all means share it with the crowd

Using the same system seen in the original Guild Wars. This isn’t exactly hard to figure out.

I hope you don’t own or manage a company. Just keep doing things the same way you did ten years ago is not the path to success.

But thinking that everything thats ‘new’ is good just because it’s new and everything thats old is bad just because it is ‘old’ is also not a good quality for a manager.

I did not play enough GW1 to know how they did it, the the whole gem-store focus is scaring people away. Remembers, people that want F2P games for to a F2P game but people that want B2P go for B2P you know like GW2.

So they should focus on the B2P.. So the game and expansions. A gem-store as a nice extra (like it was the first few months) is fine but the focus is bad for the game. Scare people away and they will not pay anything anymore.

Kite.2510:

Devata.6589:

Housing should be in the open world, not in some personal instance. Anet should have a look at ArcheAge if they want inspiration for housing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWP-DudjDBU

Be careful what you wish for…
GW2 maps go for the “detail over quantity” approach. If players were to build random structures here and there, the world wold be full.

The way ArcheAge solves that is that there are area’s where you can buy or hire a space to build your house. So you are very free to build where you like but you can not build literally everywhere in the world. New maps could be build around that idea.

jheryn.8390:

tolunart.2095:

I think the complaints are mostly just coming from people who are used to having a clear advantage in other MMOs because of their chosen play style. Such as the problem with DR – you can wander through a zone all day long and do a variety of activities and never hit DR, or you can stand on a hill killing ettins for an hour and be punished for it. Some people don’t want to leave their comfort zone and think that if they complain about it loud and long enough, they won’t have to.

Ladies and Gentlemen there it is in a nutshell. A big, big +1 to you tolunart. And what these people complaining on the threads about RNG do not understand is that they are but a very small fraction of the player out there. ANet knows this. It isn’t as if ANet doesn’t care about their complaints, they just are not going to change their business structure for those unhappy that they can not get things the way they think they should be able to. I’m glad people like you and Hjorje are out there. Level headed and who exercise common sense.

Lol, most complains I here and the reason that people stop playing GW2 all comes down to the gem-store focus. The gold-driven system and the RNG has a lot to do with that.

How do you get anything in this game? Being lucky, farming gold (there are like 3 ways to do that) or buy money. Well, not a small part of the player base but a huge part does not like that. Why where so many people so enthusiastic about SAB and MF?

Because you where rewarded for our time and skill. MF still had a big RNG but IF that would not have been temporary that would not have been a problem. And strangely the only complain I hear about MF is that is was temporary. Is has nothing to do with the play-style of a few people that benefit from it in other games. Almost nobody likes to just farm for gold, or buy gems to get the stuff you need. Most people don’t like that they want multiple ways playing the game, getting that. Doing dungeons, doing JP’s, doing WvW or killing mobs but not farming for gold. using real money to buy it…. And then still having a big change of not getting it.

If you really think it’s just a small part of the people I can ensure you you are wrong. But we both don’t have the numbers to proof it.

Housing should be in the open world, not in some personal instance. Anet should have a look at ArcheAge if they want inspiration for housing.

Esplen.3940:

I believe it only shows on people that are on your friends list (or possibly followers, not sure who has to add who).

I know this because you can tell peoples achievement points through the guild tab only if they’re active or on your friends list. From there, you can see if they move up with achievement points or not.

It also has an option to show guild-members.

Khisanth.2948:

You have 100+ guild members who haven’t gotten an achievement point since they started collecting data for the leaderboard.

Ok so even if they where online (I know some of them where) but they did not get any achivement-points they do not get on the list?

The achievements leaderboard shows only 349 members for our guild but that’s more then 100 members less then we have.

Does anybody know why I don’t see all members? Is the list limited to 349 or have those members not been on-line for x time?

I try to use that list to see what members are inactive but with a incomplete list I can’t really do that.

“Farming rewards time spent (something which doesn’t really deserve a reward)” That should not be rewarded? Isn’t the whole world based on rewards for time spend.

Normally rewards are based on time and / or skill. And I am not just talking about people and work (education (skill) and time) but the whole word. A tiger is hungry so he spends time hunting a deer. If he is skilled it will take him less time or he can catch more in the same time but still he gets rewarded for time and skills.

organisms grow and evolve. The best one (lets call that skill) survive but it all takes time. Luck is also always involved but time and skill are much more important.

Anzu.5702:

ColinJohanson.2394:

aspirine.6852:

But one solution would be to revert the changes that made orr so empty. And from there you can do the more exciting and rewarding stuff

It’s certainly one of the options we discussed, however it brings us right back to the initial problem we set out to solve, a large part of the player base was asking for more exciting and difficult open world content in our top end areas. The original version of Orr events were painfully easy, they didn’t scale well, mobs evaporated into thin-air and you had to race to even get a hit in before they died to get credit for kills.

The ideal balance point we’d like to have is with the scaling and more exciting encounters we have now, so it’s actually fun and at least remotely challenging to play there, but also rewarding as well. The reward systems we want to roll out to support those areas are part of a larger reward revamp and aren’t done yet, but are on their way and tie more strongly into the comprehensive system we’re trying to develop, thus the swap.

In regards to regular mobs hitting for insane damage, we did find a bug about a month ago causing many of them to scale way out of proportion, it has since been fixed and normal bosses in Orr should be doing damage on par with other bosses in the game. If you find any that are still nutso, please give us a shout, the intent is they should be fun/challenging, not one-hit-wonders.

Hope that helps give more insight into what we’re trying to do here, these changes are directly tied to feedback we’ve received. You don’t have to agree with them, but it’s important we explain why we’re doing them so folks understand the end goal, which I don’t believe we’ve reached yet until the rewards are there as well.

And now off to do that work thing, thanks for the feedback folks, as always keep it coming we really appreciate it!

I loved the open world. It’s an amazing place you guys spent so much time and effort on. But I stress the word loved because after a month or so after launch, people had little incentive to go back there and it has become desolated except for a few places. An mmo is a lot less fun when your running through deserted maps (especially since most of the content is geared towareds group play). You already know this and are working on the new reward scheme to fix it.

But where I think the major spanner is, is that one of your biggest carrots that tie in pve players especially; legendary weps are so dominated by gold. Legendary weps basically = gold. That instantly gets your players finding the most efficient way to get this gold which had the filtering affect of directing your playerbase to cof and (fotm for a while). Because going into the open world and doing dynamic events would be far less efficient, and if there is an easier option, people will eventually take it.

It never should have been this way in the first place and should have been more tied to the actual world. I.e. to get component 1 you need to get 100 pieces of Blah which can only be gotten from chains X of Dynamic Event A, B and C, or monsters Blerg, blerg2 and blerg3. Hindsight is a wonderful thing (and I realise your business direction of gems and in particular gems to gold meant you had to give gold a lot of weight) but this would have filled your beautiful world with players for a lot longer. Players doing a lot more of one of the things that sold me on gw2; Dynamic events.

You are 100% right. The gold-driven system is doing a lot of harm to the game. And I also understand that the gem-store focus makes them go for the gold-driven play-style but if you scare people away they will not pay anything. So I don’t think it will be good for there wallets in the long run. What would also help is introducing traditional quest. Do not count them for world-completion but put in those quest and reward with gold, or mini’s, or pets (for rangers) or (in the future) mounts or recipe’s or other special materials you need for legendary and other weapons / armor. Now people need gold so those few who are willing to buy it with money do that and the rest farms it in the few places where it can be farmed.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Devata.6589:

The fact is that Orr is ugly and people don’t want to be in ugly places. So lets say they would put stuff there that makes it worth to be there Orr they are there for that only but still do not like being there. I can still remember the complains about Orr from people that where farming in Orr when that was still possible.

Ugly places like Orr should be in MMO’s but they should not be so big, they should be in between good looking area’s (not like now, one big area) and it should not be the end-content place.

Best is to add new maps that do look great (Think: Sparkly Fen, Timberline Falls, Celedon Forest) and make it worth to be there in stead of trying them to be in ugly Orr.

very subjective, I find Orr one of the most beautiful places in the game. It’s colorful and at the same time has this death-theme…. I’ve never thought both would be possible at the same time.

It’s true that it is very subjective but thats always the case with how beautiful something is. Still I do hear a lot of complains about the looks of Orr and if it is not complains about the looks then it is about all the undeads (not being able to walk a few meter without being attacked).

Anyway, because I was wondering what area people like and dislike I just created this topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Best-looking-worst-looking-places-in-Tyria/first#post2255529 Feel free to post your opinion there.

I was wondering what you guys think are the best and the worse looking places in Tyria and what area’s you miss. That might also be an indication of what you maybe like to see in an expansion. I do belief ugly places belong in MMO’s as long as they are not to big and you mainly only have to travel through them.

The places I like best in Tyria are Kessex Hills, Celedon Forest, Sparkly Fen, Timberline Falls and Frostgorge Sound. Usually I do like icy landscapes in MMO but In GW2 I do not like most of the ice landscapes with the exception of Frostgorge Sound that looks great.

I also have one specific area that I think is the best looking place of whole Tyria. That is the area surrounding Cereboth Waypoint. Not only the direct area but stretching from Darkwound waypoint, to Eathworks Camp waypoint to Ireko Tradecamp waypoint. But when keeping it to one spot it would be Cereboth Waypoint.

The worst looking area is the whole of Orr. Thats is just a place where I do not like to be purely because of it looks.

I do still miss an area that really is a forest. Because even the forest area’s (like Caledon Forest) isn’t really a forest. I am not walking through a forest but I am walking between some tree’s. That is a big difference. I also miss some big stretch out almost empty places. Like desserts or grass fields and Savanna area’s. The last one is most likely not in because maps are instance based so limited in size and need to have ‘walls’ around them.

The fact is that Orr is ugly and people don’t want to be in ugly places. So lets say they would put stuff there that makes it worth to be there Orr they are there for that only but still do not like being there. I can still remember the complains about Orr from people that where farming in Orr when that was still possible.

Ugly places like Orr should be in MMO’s but they should not be so big, they should be in between good looking area’s (not like now, one big area) and it should not be the end-content place.

Best is to add new maps that do look great (Think: Kessex Hills, Celedon Forest, Sparkly Fen, Timberline Falls, Frostgorge Sound) and make it worth to be there in stead of trying them to be in ugly Orr.

“The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.”
Lol, because of the bad AI they where useless. The big range and some was the only usefull aspect of them. Now they lose both. Maybe the Jaguar was OP but the other pets weren’t. -25% damage on the pet? And in a rent patch “Search and Rescue” what nerved to not revive killed people anymore, only downed people. While that skill was just useful for that. Downed people you can get up yourself but killed people take to long so then it was good to have “Search and Rescue”.

The rest of the changes are not the worst but the pets should not have gotten the nerve on range and on damage (except for the jaguar) and “Search and Rescue” should be able to revive dead people again. In addition to that pets should get a better AI and should also be able to attack for example on walls. In the beta that was possible but they removed that while for example clones of mesmers are still able to get up there.

So let pets get up walls and so on, give pets better AI, keep the long range let “Search and Rescue” revive dead people and don’t nerve the damage of the pets. Then the rangers are still not the strongest class but at least they are good enough to play with.

To make them more fun the whole taming pet should change to a more dynamic way. Remove the list of possible pets and let them tame all pets on a dynamic way so you might even be able to tame pets Anet had not planned on you taming. That means it becomes possible to find rare, and special pets. Would be a great ‘fun’ buff for that class and the whole game. Something a lot of PvE players are looking for.

God Of Fissures.8627:

You want the truth?

The gemstore monopoly takes away from quality content and bug fixes.

It is only good for ArenaNet and NCSoft’s wallets.

Like I said 2 post back.. Only on the short run. It will scare people away and people that are gone are not good for there wallet’s. So only if they are planning on making some fast money it is good for there wallets. If they want to keep this game running for years and so making money for years this is very bad for there wallets.

dadamowsky.4692:

I barely see any focus on gemstore to be honest, and that makes me wonder. There’s not much of interesting things to buy. We should expect some weapon and armor skins, but now? Boosters? BLC keys? Nah…

The whole game is gold-driven (no farming for mats or skins) and there is a lot of stuff only temporary available in the gem-store so no saving gold to buy it.

So you can farm for gold (most people don’t like that) or buy gems with money to transfer to gold or buy the gem-item before it is removed from the gem-store again.

That is the gem-store focus I am mainly talking about.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

ANet needs to stop trying to be super greedy.

i believe you are barking at the wrong tree.

anet does not decides how the gem store works.
ncsoft does.

and no, the RNG boxes system is working just fine as intended.

ncsoft realized that RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2 PvE and thus ordered anet to focus on that.

if their RNG boxes gem store sales are bad, they would have stopped so after south sun crates.

they will not fix what is not broken in the first place.

and you have no idea how many people are buying the RNG boxes from the gem store.

Correction, they think RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2. (may I make that, gem-store focus).

And in the short run that focus will be the best monetization but at the same time decisions in the game are based on that and not on what they should be “makes it the game better”. So it is bad for the game.. That will scare people away and people that are gone are not spending any money at all. So unless you are only focusing on making some fast money on the short run (that is mostly not what MMO’s are about, they are supposed to make money over a longer period) it is just bad management.

If I may add my solution, I will also talk about your 3 groups:

Stop the focus on the gem-store. Put skins in it but do not try to get people to buy it. Like OP says, some people will not buy it anyway, other want but don’t have the money and so on, and so on. This is a B2P game do a gem-store should be optional not something the company focus on. In stead focus on expansions.

What would this mean in the game. Make skins and mini’s availible from drops like we know that from many MMO’s but also from MF or SAB. Also keep all that content availible. Stop adding temporary content. In addition to that also put such items in the gem-store.. not the same not a better looking (what I like better you may dislike) but just some other skins and another mini’s in the gem-store and again, not temporary. And stop with the gold-driver stuff. Let people farm mats, skins, mini’s or gold. Whatever they want / need.

Get rid of the RNG boxes and mats with an extreme low drap-change (mats should be hard because you need a lot of them but if you can’t farm them and you need a lot of them, then the only way to get them is to buy them.. gold-driven). Some skins or mini’s can have an extreme low drop-change but then the mobs that drop them should be farmable in a way they they spawn a lot in a area so people can run around there farming them.

1. People that don’t spend money.
You do not want people who do not spend money at all, they will go to F2P games but the people who don’t spend money on gems will usually spend money on expansions. You focus on expansion, they pay for them.
And if there is something in the gem-store they want they can save up gold to buy it anyway. That is not possible with temporary stuff (but you guys know that, thats the whole reason there is all that temporary stuff, hoping people will buy gems with money)

2 People with a budget
They might be willing to buy gems once in a while and if they can’t wont, something is to expansive they will save up gold to buy it. In addition they will pay for the expansion.

3 people who want to spend money on everything.
They will buy what they want.. gems and expansions.. but more likely is that they go to subscription based games. And as we see that most of those games fail it shows that the number of these people is not enough to support the game.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Devata.6589:

Anyway, in stead of buying stuff in the gemstores I do want to support ArenaNet and so I buy the collectors edition.

Which comes with extra stuff. Which is what you paid extra for. As for “do I get a thank you for buying gems?”: Did you buy gems?

Devata.6589:

[…] didn’t buy gems.

Thanks for playing.

I did not make that title. I think a modderator edited it. I was talking about support. I will change it to a better title. (I now just see it is possible to edit the title)

Woodycooks.7152:

since zero of the people who read this agreed with you, isn’t it at all, just the littlest bit possible, that it is you that needs the attitude adjustment?

But if I read your reaction you do agree with me. You say you think I took the wrong example and I might have (now I must say, after a moderator changed the title it looks more ‘wrong’ then it did before in my opinion) but the point I am trying to make is plain and simple. The focus on the gem-store is bad. The gift is just one example of that focus.

I could also have taken the moa racer achivement that basically is “pay 7,5 gold to get this achivement” but I did pick the gift example. Maybe not the best example but still. About most not agreeing. Well most people look at the title, don’t read the thread so don’t know where it is about and react purely on the idea that Anet gives a gifs to gem-buyers. Well that is not what this thread was supposed to be about but I do agree that I maybe should not have taken one example to start the thread with. Does not seem to work on forums.

imho there have been 2 patches (added content) where they did not ‘focus on the gem-store’. That was SaB (well you could buy 3 mini’s but you will probably be able to by them again later) skins where farmable in the game (on a farmable way, not 1/10000), and MF. The skin (back-pack) and the mini where also farmable in that content. And if I ever hear complains about SaB or MF then it is that it was only temporary content. The other content seems to be much more gold / gem-store driven and that makes the content less fun.

Hamfast.8719:

What don’t you get? Gem buyers paid them more, so we got more. Seems pretty simple.

CE buyers also paid them more. Just as simple. But again, it’s more the underlaying problem. No expansion, focus on the gemstore, trying to make the game gold-driven in stead of farm driven (well normal farm, now it is gold-farm) is a good example.

If they lose players over that then they lose money on expansions and on gems and they are indeed a company and so try to make money.

Anyway, I think everything is said what is supposed to be said so I will leave it with this.

It got Anet attention so lets hope they do something with it, and if they don’t I did what I could.

Hamfast.8719:

Conner.4702:

Can I jump on the bandwagon?

I spent a lot more in the cashshop than what the CE cost can I get all the CE goodies then if I use the OP’s logic?

The OP isn’t using logic, sorry.

My logic is just fine, Conner does not understand the logic it seems. He did buy gems and got the gems, I did buy the CE and got the CE. Conner’s got something extra because it seems like Anet is focusing a lot on the gem-store. To much. That is most likely also the reason they removed the possibility to farm skelks and almost all other possibility’s to farm anything. Everything is gold-based and the only reason that I can come up with that is is that way, is because they hope to sell more gems. There is however no need for that.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Devata.6589:

A lot of guild-members got a mini pack that had 3 Holographic mini’s in them. The reason they got it because they both 500 gems somewhere between the release of the game and this was ArenaNet’s way to ’thank’them for the support.

Now I do not buy anything from in-game stores. Thats why I buy a B2P game and not a F2P game because of this sort of things. And F2P games that are doing there best to get people buying stuff from there. Hate that, so I go for a B2P game. (To bad GW2 is now also doing that more and more.. but that was expected as there is still no expansion announced. B2P games should run on the game and expansion).

Anyway, in stead of buying stuff in the gemstores I do want to support ArenaNet and so I buy the collectors edition. You know, the one that cost 105 Euro more then the normal game (how many gems can you buy for that?). But not you are smacking all those players in the face. What paying more for the game but not buying gems… You get nothing.

So my questions.. did you just forget about those people and will they still get it? Would be nice.

are you telling me you did not buy gems at all?

bag slots
character slots
bank upgrade slots

did not even buy gems using in game monies?

during launch week, 100 gems costs about 25 silvers in game monies to buy.
you are telling me you did not buy them at all?

No I am not telling you that.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If that’s truly the case, you should change the (en)title(d), yet again. =)

I did not change the title, Anet did. they also removed a post so it shows they do read it, and even if they disagree with the gem-store discussion maybe somebody of the staff will think about it when they discuss new content. It is all I could hope for and even do many reactions where negative, they kept this thread active and so help it to get the attention it deserve.

About the title. I first wanted to make the title something like. “The high focus on the gem-store is bad for the game. The ‘support’ gift only for the gem-buyers supporters is the straw that broke the camel” But that was to long so I decided to go focus on the gift part knowing discussion would go to the gem-store. And the title did get the attention so it’s fine by me. It’s now up to Anet to do something with it or not. I did what I could do to give my support.

When I started this post I knew I would get a lot of bad reactions. (like with one or 2 other post I made) but if I would care about that I would not post it.

It’s simple. I think some thinks are bad for the game and then I make a post about it. Hopefully Anet understand the underlaying problem and does something about it. If they would not do and they game would die slowly I can at least be sure I did everything I could to help. And in the end thats the reason for any of my post. I don’t need to get the mini’s, if I want them I buy them. (transferring gold to gems.. if they want real money they can come with an expansion)

I do hope the people from Anet do take it a bid more serious then some of the people who are reacting here.

Valento.9852:

I bought in gemstore, don’t mind OP he’s just jealous.

“Don’t mind the OP he is jealous..” just focus on the gem-store and destroy the game? No I am not jealous, If I see thinks that I think are wrong I report them on the forum. In that way I try to support the game. And I don’t think you can be jealous because you can just buy them so they are in reach for everybody. But like I said to somebody else. If somebody who can not come up with anything better that such an insult, tries to insult you it is a compliment so thank you!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Goodness, goodness. You are aware that there are no plans for an expansion at this time, yes?

And that ‘other MMO games’ don’t usually release content monthly or bi-weekly, yes?

So…I don’t think using other games models works so well here. Ever think that maybe the box sales paid for all those years of development? Are you thinking box-sales-only pays for each month’s new content? You think your 50, 60, 150, 220 dollars pays for 2 years of content? 3 years of content? What if an expansion doesn’t come out for 4 years? Who pays to keep you entertained then? Was the profit they made off of your CE enough to pay for several years content?

Lol, if I had the minis I would send them to you, just to……appease you. Hope you can have a nice day, anyway. =)

I am very much aware of the fact that there is no expansion on the way… you know, that may be the core of the problem that is the result of this topic.

Kinda answered the rest. I do not think it pays for years and years to come, thats why there should have been an expansion on the way.

goldenwing.8473:

I bought 3 CEs. Two for me, one for my daughter.

I didn’t buy them to “support the game”. I bought them because of the items they offered which I am still using today in game when I roll alts.

I have 43 characters slots. That’s 33 extra. You can do the math.

I have also bought gems for a variety of things since release, on a monthly, on-going basis. I won’t go into how much I have spent, this game is my only hobby at the moment.

Again, I didn’t do that to “support the game” I bought the character slots and the gems to get things I wanted to use.

“Supporting the game” is something I do in game, on various forums, reporting bugs, making suggestions, reporting bots, reporting ToS violations, promoting the game to others with a clear, non-fanboi, objective perspective.

I do that as well for my own benefit.

If ANet and the community gets something from that, awesome. That makes me happy.

I don’t expect anything for playing the game the way I like.

And I certainly would not demand it.

- Just a fellow, non-entitled player

You did not buy them to support the game. Just like some gem-buyers did not buy them not to support the game. Other people did buy the CE and or Gem’s partly to support the game.

And like you see I also support by reporting bugs, making suggestions, reporting bots, reporting ToS violations, promoting the game to others with a clear, non-fanboi, objective perspective. and running a big guild, trying to keep them happy. And indeed I do that all also for my own benefit because if the game fails we have no GW2 to play. So this sort of things should also be brought to the attention. Even if you get a load of negative reactions on it.

In the past I was active in a few beta’s of other MMO’s. There I then posted that subscription based was not the way to go. That gave me always a big load of negative reactions.. Funny thing is.. all those game (well 2) subscription based fee failed and they are now F2P. Now I hope Anet does listen and does not make mistake because we point them out. And really, the bigger problem here is the focus not the gift.

- Just a fellow, non-entitled player

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, if you email Customer Support, and include some real virtual tears with your plea, they will recognize your magnanimous gesture of buying a CE, and send you a pack of Holographic Dragon Bash minis.

support@arenanet.com

Good luck. =)

Yeah that is an option.. or you post it in the forum.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to some of the logic in this thread, supposedly I went above and beyond to support ArenaNet. Even though, I was under the impression I bought extra goodies…for me.

I also bought gems, many times….many times.

I have not received any minis, nor have I cried over that. Since they have stated they are sending out minis in waves…

‘These are being given out in waves to avoid a strain on our mailing birds. They are not super birds!’ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

….either I have not received them yet, or I won’t be getting them. No biggie, as I am an adult and I can accept ArenaNet’s decision about who deserves free minis and who doesn’t. If I never receive them, I am no worse off before any were sent out.

I have to wonder…sometimes.

Well that logic that you went above and beyond to support ArenaNet. is not really in the thread. It’s in the mail Anet send, to gem-buyers. The topic is about that logic being incorrect.

And really the underlaying irritation in not the gift, that was just straw that broke the camel. The irritation is the big focus that gem-store is getting and how a lot of that focus is just bad for the game.

Eladriel.7295:

What is your problem? The gem store is a way to get support for the game and to sell items that players would want.. It is no different than the freakin store they had for gw1. What you think you’re only support of the game is just to buy the collectors edition? What happens between now and a expansion? Have you heard they were working on one? no you haven’t. I bought the collectors edition as well and yes I have bought gems.. Why? Cause I don’t mind spending money on a game I like and plan on playing for years to come and 5 character slots just wasn’t enough. Why is it when a company wants to show their appreciations to parts of the community the other parts start this “Im entitled” to whatever they got bs? The collectors edition got way more items with it than we got for buying gems.. Stuff that they didn’t even have to give. It is really pathetic that people seem to feel they need to begrudge others for things they have gotten because of simple things they do. Not counting the fact the gift was unexpected. I didn’t expect to log in and find a box of mini pets..

“What happens between now and a expansion?” the same as what happens between the releases of 2 none MMO games with the difference that they use some more money to keep it running but spend some less on making the new expansion.

“Have you heard they were working on one?” No, and when I did read that they where not yet actively working one I started to worry that the focus would get to much to the gem-store what normally is not very good for a game. And I do not begrudge others for what they get. I did not say anything about them, did I? It is a principal thing

ginkoneverends.7082:

Oh look yet another entitlement thread. yay.

Just the contrary really.

captaincrash.6528:

Yep! You got the game, that you paid for, plus the extras, that you paid for. I didn’t complain to Bethesda when I bought Skyrim years ago however long it was now, and now all people who buy the game get the DLC for free. This is business; this is how these things work.

You are correct. When they start releasing the game with free DLC (also funny thing BTW, few years ago patches were free) they should also give it for free to the people who already did buy it. But I am not talking about Skyrim and because “it is the way those thinks work” does not mean you should not talk about it.

Torpian.9142:

Devata.6589:

You are all saying the same wrong thing.

I don’t think anyone will be able to convince Devata on this one. He thinks he’s entitled to something and that’s all that really matters.

Like I said a many times. I don’t think I am entitled to anything (the rest of the explication you can read in the comments). So you do not have to convince me of anything. I do think I will not be ably to convince anybody to first read before posting. Would save me a lot of repeating. But because of my willingness to answer everybody and people not reading it I need to keep repeating myself.

Zorby.8236:

Devata.6589:

Dawdler.8521:

Collectors edition got other stuff… also its completely worthless minis. They could have given us a single crystaline dust and I’d have been more happy – at least that I could have sold.

Gem buyers also got other stuff. You know like the gems and they stuff they did buy with the gems.

And you might not want them but I would like them.

Hehe, funniest part of the thread (up untill I gave up that is). No saving this dude…

Yeah you are a real genius aren’t you? But if you are so good why not tell what is wrong with it then just saying “No saving this dude”. You do not agree so you just try to offend me. Trust me, if people like you try to offend me I see that as a compliment. So thank you man. Means a lot to me. And I love you too.