Guild Wars 2

Homicidal Toaster.5836:

I was hoping someone could tell me what I’m doing wrong, but I feel that whenever I pvp at all, I seem to not deal any damage at all while also being stupid squishy regardless of how I build my character. I’ll run into thieves that deal 75% of my max hp with one back stab and then when I try to do that with a thief, I won’t do nearly as much. What factors should I consider? I’m tired of people just straight up owning me while I can’t do it to other players. Not even the newbies. I’m not referring to just my thief, though. Any of my characters. I’ve tried switching up the spvp runes and everything, but still drop in two to five hits.

If you’re playing a thief, it’s all about learning to be the smoothest criminal in the world. Staying in the fight long enough to get back-stabbed is not the way to go. Every time someone can see you, you should believe that you’re dead and the only keeping you from truly being dead is, distance, Line of sight, blinds, stuns and stealth. Learn to use them wisely.

I’d like Force of Will to be this;

Deal 10% more damage per virtue you have active. Gives you a reason to go down the Honour line in a damage build, giving you 300 vitality because of those 30 points and also allowing you to spec into crit without fear of a massive loss in damage.

I will not be choosing Warrior, why you ask? Because Guardians are better and if you don’t know it, let me kick your kitten to show you.

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it that strong

I guess if we were to take flanking strike as a shining example of good skill design then it would be good to make every kill with an evade, a chain skill which leaves a point in which the Thief is invulnerable and a point where he is vulnerable.

Evasive shot -chain to Crippling Shot

Split the functionality of Evasive shot so that you have to stop evading in order to cripple your target.
Same thing with Pistol whip, create a moment in which the Thief has to stop to do something else.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I don’t feel this is a problem. This is a counter to Mesmers and other classes with pets, I say leave it in for that reason alone.

i didnt use flanking strike as a good designed skill example i just wanted to point out that the only reason this skill is not completely broken is that you cant chain the evades like on shortbow while doing damage

So in essence its an example of how to change the other skills to flow better and give players an opening? Isn’t that what you’re trying to say?

Zen.9137:

Dirame.8521:

Zen.9137:

I’ve tried an all gadget-trait build. It just sucked SO hard. . . My guess is the devs figure it’s okay to have all the gadgets trait in one line since they are so underpowered. An engi with all turrets and SOME turret-related traits VS an engi with all gadgets and ALL gadget-related traits isn’t much of a match up, I think the turret engi would dance a jig all over the gadget engi.

That depends. A gadget Engie has distance. A Turret Engie controls an area. A gadget would have good burst as well, turret engie has CC. I’d really like to see how a turret vs a Gadget would work to be honest.

“Tools – Gadgeteer – gadgets grant additional boons upon use. Boon vary based on the gadget being used – AED – 3s of retaliation, Personal Battering Ram – 5s of fury; Rocket Boots – 4s of Vigor; Slick Shoes – 8s of regeneration; Throw mine – 6s of aegis; Utility Goggles 5 stacks of might for 8 seconds.”

This grandmaster trait might make gadgets more viable in my opinion I’m excited to give it a try. I never thought of the burst potential of an all gadget build. Perhaps it would be a draw?

The turret engie has the advantage. If you grab Net, Rocket and Thumper and the Gadget Engie were to take PBR, Analyze and Rocket boots, the Turret Engie might be able to out CC the gadget engie to win. The Gadget Engie will have to burn 2 cooldowns just to break out of a successful Net turret overcharge which would end up being the downfall of the turret engie.

Morsus.5106:

Silv.9207:

3) They put Communal Defence on Valor, and I think it’s useless compared whit Altruistic Healing, but it’s what I think. It’s a good trait, but not the best the can make. One more aegis when block every 20 sec can be good, but if you combine Altruistic healing whit Empowering Might (trait VIII on Honor line) your heal yourself by 360 per second just hitting the enemy, and if you add the staff skill Empower you heal 1/2 or 1/3 of your hp in 2.5 sec.

If you get an all Guardian group all with Communal Defense though… Talk about the elitism that could come from THAT.

This game will all of sudden have the tag line; “Just Aegis it!”

Zen.9137:

I’ve tried an all gadget-trait build. It just sucked SO hard. . . My guess is the devs figure it’s okay to have all the gadgets trait in one line since they are so underpowered. An engi with all turrets and SOME turret-related traits VS an engi with all gadgets and ALL gadget-related traits isn’t much of a match up, I think the turret engi would dance a jig all over the gadget engi.

That depends. A gadget Engie has distance. A Turret Engie controls an area. A gadget would have good burst as well, turret engie has CC. I’d really like to see how a turret vs a Gadget would work to be honest.

Sensotix.4106:

Evasive Shot Shortbow #3
spammable evade on weaponset -> not sure if I have to explain why this is a bad mechanic
the only difference between flanking strike and evasive shot is that you can’t chain flanking strike which doesn’t make it that strong

I guess if we were to take flanking strike as a shining example of good skill design then it would be good to make every kill with an evade, a chain skill which leaves a point in which the Thief is invulnerable and a point where he is vulnerable.

Evasive shot -chain to Crippling Shot

Split the functionality of Evasive shot so that you have to stop evading in order to cripple your target.
Same thing with Pistol whip, create a moment in which the Thief has to stop to do something else.

Sensotix.4106:

Shortbow autoattack:
Pretty much THE counter on this weaponset vs mesmer
If you dodge on mesmer you leave a clone behind which means dodging is almost useless vs thief because the attack will bounce from the clone to you resulting in mesmer not being able to create a bigger gap between himself and the thief without taking damage – my idea is to make the attack bounce only once

I hope this thread was constructive and clear and I would love to get some constructive feedback on this

I don’t feel this is a problem. This is a counter to Mesmers and other classes with pets, I say leave it in for that reason alone.

ThiBash.5634:

Dirame.8521:

At least stone heart has a caveat, Diamond skin didn’t and we’re still not sure if it’s been changed.

True, but it’s still a hard counter against a certain build style (burst thieves and warriors) so it’s not any better.

It’s a timed counter that doesn’t entirely neuter the build, yes you won’t do exponential damage but, if he’s on low health and he takes 2k pure damage, that’s still 2k pure damage, there’s no changing that.

ThiBash.5634:

ellesee.8297:

it’s fine. hopefully they’ll look at berserker stance and diamond skin too. hard counters just make a bad game.

Agreed. Which is why I’m kinda bummed out they also added Stone Heart.

At least stone heart has a caveat, Diamond skin didn’t and we’re still not sure if it’s been changed.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Justin had the crux of the reasoning correct – it’s a small tweak to your build that a lot of players could do without. It’s a very small stat change in exchange for another aspect of a PvP build. By removing it, it’s one less thing a new player needs to learn. With runes, sigils, amulets, weapon skills, slotted skills, minor traits and major traits, making a build is a pretty hefty process. Jewels were a very, VERY small % of that overall build.

Trust me, doing focus tests and watching new players play the game, our builds can be very overwhelming. You guys are experts by now, but you have to keep in mind that other players are not as advanced as you are, and removing pieces to the builds allows us to slightly lower the barrier to entry.

My question is; Don’t you think the process of learning a game’s complexities and overcoming them is how a player falls in love with the game?

I remember starting this game out as well and I can tell you the one thing that took me time to understand.

Nope it wasn’t jewel interactions, it wasn’t stat combos, it was the functions of every single, trait, sigil and rune and all the possible interactions between them.

I’m glad you guys finally got around to editting the wording behind many of the traits (some skills still need that btw * cough cough * Zealot’s defence * cough cough *) but darn if that didn’t take a while.

Now please don’t that take the fact that it took a while for me to learn things as a bad thing because when the game clicked, everything clicked. A bit like a lego piece you couldn’t find until you stepped on it.
A player is supposed to progress in-game (leveling up and beating challenges) as well as progress in knowledge (learning more about the game, for example, animation cancelling, skill combos, jump dodging) and trust me when I say; jewels are not a major part of that complexity right now

BUT

If you’re planning to add more stat combinations to the game that will make up for the loss of the jewels then fine, but if not, please leave it in.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

I also believe that in that thread, a few people mentioned that numbers weren’t the main thing that needed changing. And also, some people disagreed completely with that original poster as well.

My position on this jewel change is that, jewels and Amulet interactions are not that complex. In fact they were so harmless that I haven’t heard anyone say a build is OP or the game is impossible to understand because there is too many jewels.

If “Too many Jewels” was ever a topic then this would be a reason to change things but it never was.

Justin ODell.9517:

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

Sure more options mean more possible builds, and more ability to tailor to your exact play style, but it doesn’t necessarily mean better builds or a better game.

I know at first, when doing the mental math, it felt like a bit of a contradiction to add more complexity in one area (traits) while removing it from another (amulets). Again, not presuming to speak for the designers, but I think it makes sense when you consider the impact each area has. Amulets are raw stats so they have a much bigger impact on balance because they affect everything. Why wouldn’t they want to lock down the most highly variable aspect of balance? Having greater impact means the cost of complexity grows exponentially.

At the same time, I could see the change also giving the designers more flexibility to do even more with amulets because math. 10 amulets with 10 jewels is 100 possible combinations, right? Now they only have to worry about just 12 amulets… which means they have 88 more amulets to go before they reach the same level complexity.

I know some people will think the difference between ‘streamlining’ and ‘dumbing down’ is only semantic, but I think intent is very important when trying to project where the game is heading in the future. This is part of the reason I’m very optimistic about where we’re going, and I think you should be too.

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

My question is; what is so complex about the interactions between Amulets and jewels?

If this was done in PvE, I’d understand but this is PvP, we don’t have much to customize.

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

Fraelin.7409:

As it still stacks with warrior interrupt it is still completely broken, I understand that you have nerfed the rune, but in order to make the rune ok for use in PvP, it CANT apply more than 3 stacks of confusion and it MUST NOT stack with mace interrupt trait on warrior.

3 Stacks of confusion along with the proc is still 6 stacks which is still a lot of confusion damage, why should it be 8??

If this goes live it will insanely broken. The builds that open up from this is great! but the side effects will just be too much. Clearly from the amount of people asking not to have this in PvP you can see the community’s view on this topic

PS: Honestly I don’t think you have tested mace interrupt build on warrior with that rune, if you have you would never let it live.

Wow you really don’t want it to become a build.

Well my opinion is that with classes who have fast application of condis, this rune will be powerful. So for Necros, Engies and Mesmers, their condi builds are going to be hilariously painful to deal with this rune set.

With classes whose main focus isn’t condis though (this includes warriors) it’s an easy cleanse unless you’re being 2v1ed.

LOL have you seen how fast warriors can stack up conditions? The bleed stacks alone can take someone out super fast.

Yea, and it’s one at a time. If they do it all at once, it’s by perfect timing and that perfect timing is dependent on how much a player sucks.

Immob/bleeding in one skill (thank god its getting nerfed). Not to mention that the meta warrior tPvP takes distracting strikes… if you add in perplexity they will be stacking confusion better than mesmers (which is sad considering that mesmers “condition” is confusion…) Seriously people defending warriors just baffle 90% of the people with common sense.

I’ve played the build, it’s slow as heck and anyone worth their movement speed will beat it. Put yourself in the wrong place and you’re dead yes, but for the life of me, that build is slow as watching a stove.

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

Fraelin.7409:

As it still stacks with warrior interrupt it is still completely broken, I understand that you have nerfed the rune, but in order to make the rune ok for use in PvP, it CANT apply more than 3 stacks of confusion and it MUST NOT stack with mace interrupt trait on warrior.

3 Stacks of confusion along with the proc is still 6 stacks which is still a lot of confusion damage, why should it be 8??

If this goes live it will insanely broken. The builds that open up from this is great! but the side effects will just be too much. Clearly from the amount of people asking not to have this in PvP you can see the community’s view on this topic

PS: Honestly I don’t think you have tested mace interrupt build on warrior with that rune, if you have you would never let it live.

Wow you really don’t want it to become a build.

Well my opinion is that with classes who have fast application of condis, this rune will be powerful. So for Necros, Engies and Mesmers, their condi builds are going to be hilariously painful to deal with this rune set.

With classes whose main focus isn’t condis though (this includes warriors) it’s an easy cleanse unless you’re being 2v1ed.

LOL have you seen how fast warriors can stack up conditions? The bleed stacks alone can take someone out super fast.

Yea, and it’s one at a time. If they do it all at once, it’s by perfect timing and that perfect timing is dependent on how much a player sucks.

Fraelin.7409:

As it still stacks with warrior interrupt it is still completely broken, I understand that you have nerfed the rune, but in order to make the rune ok for use in PvP, it CANT apply more than 3 stacks of confusion and it MUST NOT stack with mace interrupt trait on warrior.

3 Stacks of confusion along with the proc is still 6 stacks which is still a lot of confusion damage, why should it be 8??

If this goes live it will insanely broken. The builds that open up from this is great! but the side effects will just be too much. Clearly from the amount of people asking not to have this in PvP you can see the community’s view on this topic

PS: Honestly I don’t think you have tested mace interrupt build on warrior with that rune, if you have you would never let it live.

Wow you really don’t want it to become a build.

Well my opinion is that with classes who have fast application of condis, this rune will be powerful. So for Necros, Engies and Mesmers, their condi builds are going to be hilariously painful to deal with this rune set.

With classes whose main focus isn’t condis though (this includes warriors) it’s an easy cleanse unless you’re being 2v1ed.

bhagwad.4281:

Dirame.8521:

bhagwad.4281:

They’re going to boost everyone r55+ to r80. A PvE example would be:

Everyone who has 100g in their bank account now automatically gets a legendary weapon.

Because you know…legendaries were too tough to get and if you have 100g you must surely deserve one. As for those who went through all the toil to actually craft a legendary old style…sorry! You get nothing for your special efforts and you have to stand around while people who put in 10% of your effort get the same rewards as you.

The reasons why we wanted to keep ranks around was so that we could distinguish the players who’d spend huge amounts of time and sweat in sPvP from the rest. This was why we had protested against your move to remove ranks.

You listened to us and now you’re telling us that a r55+ player will get the same treatement as an r70+ player?? You’re going to make rank points meaningless! Everyone can reach level 80.

If this is what you’re going to do, please go ahead with your original plan and remove rank points entirely but allow us to retain our rank finishers so that those who are at a certain level always have some recognition of our special efforts.

But please…don’t do this. I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in PvP slogging to get rank points and get better finishers than everyone else. You’re just devaluing all my hard work for the past two years.

Don’t do it….please. I beg you.

No it isn’t the same as that. It’s more like, everyone who has gotten half way through this difficult dungeon will get the rewards because there was a number we miscalculated in the amount of time it should take you to finish it.

Great. And what of those who put in the hard work to finish that dungeon in the first place? Are they not special? Isn’t it an insult to slug them together with everyone else? They don’t deserve that.

No one does.

But… no one finished the dungeon though….

I feel like those nerfs for Warrior might have gone to the wrong area but I’ll wait to see what has been done to Berserker stance

Xaylin.1860:

Dirame.8521:

Funnily enough, it’s actually not that bad an idea. Rabid so that you can get AoE torment on crit, Staff to stack might and Greatword to unleash the condis.

I’m more concerned about the Spirit Weapon part.

Couldn’t figure out how to introduce that into the build unfortunately.

bhagwad.4281:

They’re going to boost everyone r55+ to r80. A PvE example would be:

Everyone who has 100g in their bank account now automatically gets a legendary weapon.

Because you know…legendaries were too tough to get and if you have 100g you must surely deserve one. As for those who went through all the toil to actually craft a legendary old style…sorry! You get nothing for your special efforts and you have to stand around while people who put in 10% of your effort get the same rewards as you.

The reasons why we wanted to keep ranks around was so that we could distinguish the players who’d spend huge amounts of time and sweat in sPvP from the rest. This was why we had protested against your move to remove ranks.

You listened to us and now you’re telling us that a r55+ player will get the same treatement as an r70+ player?? You’re going to make rank points meaningless! Everyone can reach level 80.

If this is what you’re going to do, please go ahead with your original plan and remove rank points entirely but allow us to retain our rank finishers so that those who are at a certain level always have some recognition of our special efforts.

But please…don’t do this. I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in PvP slogging to get rank points and get better finishers than everyone else. You’re just devaluing all my hard work for the past two years.

Don’t do it….please. I beg you.

No it isn’t the same as that. It’s more like, everyone who has gotten half way through this difficult dungeon will get the rewards because there was a number we miscalculated in the amount of time it should take you to finish it.

What I’ve found to be easy to interrupt or to see coming;

Fear Mark, Necro raises his hand (at this point speed is of the essence on that interrupt button) and points it forward, as soon as he points it, you’re already feared. [Medium]

Life Transfer – [Easy]
It’s the thing they do where they have lots of green bubbles floating toward them. Very easy to interrupt.

Enfeebling Blood and Spinal Shivers

Both of these have a very swirly hand motion, very easy to see coming. [Easy]

Warrior, Guardian, Ranger Leaps
Interrupt them because it’s hilarious to see someone almost about to hit you and then they stop dead right in from of you ready to be eaten alive by burst. Also Ride the Lightning from Eles, it’s even more hilarious. [Easy]

Thief, Pistol Whip
Interrupt get a target on them and interrupt them as they start the combo, it’s pretty easy if you can see them coming. [Medium]

Blinding powder
The thief will run away from you, daze him as soon as you see him dodge a distance away. Wait till they come out of the dodge animation to time this properly or else it will fail and they will blind you interrupt. [Medium]

Mesmer;
Phantasmal Beserker
Up thrust of greatsword. [Easy]

Mirror Blade
Forward Swinging arm. [Easy]

Illusionary Counter
Hit him and then interrupt him when he tries to cast the torment. Perform this and unlock troll-face. [Medium]

Confusing Images
A ray of confusion pointed at YOU. [Easy]

Xaylin.1860:

dace.8019:

So you’d be happy with a spirit weapon Staff guardian running condition (Rabid) damage in your sPvP team or FotM party?

Way of twisting words. I said that builds not being meta doesn’t mean they aren’t viable. I didn’t say all builds are viable. And you came up with a pretty messed up one.

Funnily enough, it’s actually not that bad an idea. Rabid so that you can get AoE torment on crit, Staff to stack might and Greatword to unleash the condis.

Glenstorm.4059:

They also said they’re introducing new amulets. Those will probably make up for the removal of jewels, and will open up more builds (hopefully.)

Even with that though, having the mixture of jewels and amulets is always going to be a good thing.

I might want to run soldier with Rampagers. Is there going to be a stat combo for toughness with crit and health? If yes, count me in, if no, leave them jewels alone.

Knaha.5193:

Sooooo

Pls Devs, answer this:

1. With this patch, you made the work I have done in PVP worthless, because PvE-oriented people will look cooler or as cool as I only through their PvE-Progess. And looks was everything in PVP until now.

2. It will cost me gold or money to change my look in PVP? WHY ist that? Only so you get another Goldsink?

If I play hambow, I want to look cool with my nightmare armor, and if I play sword shield I want to wear my T3 human set. So everytime I change my specc, it will be either use 6 trans-charges or stay my former look?

That’s bullcrap. And people swinging their legendaries in PVP is kitten too.

3. I will lose all my PVPmats? Are you kidding me? at least convert em to gold or give me the ability to buy tokens etc before the patch, so I wont lose all the stacks of my mats, since I havent got enough tokens to craft things.

Regards

You get transmutation charges from PvPing.

Yeap, taking away jewels does not streamline anything. It just reduces our customizability with regards to stats even more. Jewels weren’t complex to understand, so this is one part of the game that didn’t need touching.

Please Anet, revert this change.

Gundail.7594:

Monoman.2068:

you’re not going to find many people traiting 30 into zeal to get it.

Oh yes… yes they will. Do not underestimate the bads. They always ride single file to hide their numbers.

I know I will, and I will look good in my tight jeans and hipster glasses.

All we need now is account wide trait/skill unlocks for PvP…. * hint hint nodge nodge *

So glorious! So Gracious! So CONVENIENT!
FINALLY! We have it!

The PvP build Panel

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

When I look for a build, I look for the best build that THAT class can create, I don’t look for the best build in the game because that just leads to dissapointment.

Theory crafting and testing new waters is interesting and I encourage and applaud that. You may even come up with something viable. But will your build be relevant? is what matters. Right now, and even with anticipated changes, Guardian condition damage is simply not a relevant competitor.

To ignore what everyone else is doing with their professions and focussing on your own isn’t just dedication, it’s willful ignorance. You can play whatever build you want. I’m the last person who will tell people to change build because it is sub-optimal or not as strong as another professions version. What I am saying is, while you may be doing the best that your class can do in some regard, like condi-build, it’s good to know and accept when you are in territory in which your class in that role is a weak performer.

Dirame.8521:

I personally will not say no to more improvements to the condi guardian (such as cover condis like Torment) but I will also not say that it isn’t working right now especially for what the guardian is built for.

You will need to scream from the rooftops to get the changes you need to make this a meta affecting build. I’m not saying Burn Guard can’t be useful, it’s just nowhere near as useful as it has the potential to be.

I found that thinking of the relevance of a build compared to other classes only serves to box you in. When i find a build works its because it works. There are so many builds I’ve sat on for the guardian without showing them because i don’t feel they work but this one, this one just needs 1 thing and it would be almost too good ‘cos right now it’s just good.

If this game was all about direct damage then SoJ would be the best thing ever. But this game isn’t so therefore SoJ is a waste. It will work in a retal build though, mainly because you have to be hit to deal damage.

Xaylin.1860:

Dirame.8521:

Rabid is always going to be a bad idea in my opinion.

Well… I wrote Rabid or Settler.

I would prefer Settler even if it means less condi damage. However, I might have to pick Rabid for the additional crit chance because I want to get an additional condition through sigils.

In PvE that would actually be a good idea. But I’m not so sure about PvP.

Ambrecombe.4398:

And now you are proving my point from above. This GM trait is alienating the use of the Thumper turret, so basicaly you are giving up the crowd control for boons instead by laying it in places you wouldn’t otherwise making the synergy with the other turret traits inexistant while A-net has stated numerous time GM traits should be build defining traits that work well with the lower traits of the same category of skills.

………. I can’t even begin to understand how you could possibly make this statement. I mean can’t people play the way they want? Can’t I leave my turret out for the benefit of me getting the prot procs or should I conform to one style of play that was established by our forefathers?

Ambrecombe.4398:

Realy? Selfish? You can share the Might stacks and condition cleans to a lesser extend with almost every toolbelt version of your Elixirs and this is without including their base effect. So I wouldn’t call the Elixir build selfish…

You’re right, Elixirs do offer that but they still can’t touch the level of support that will be possible with the turrets.

Ambrecombe.4398:

No, you are just assuming things we aren’t even saying and you seem to fail to understand the base concerns and issues related to turrets and why those traits doesn’t fix anything for turret builds.

I am not the one to tell you how you play. You play the way you want, and I don’t care. If you can’t understand why it makes no sense to add a turret trait based on boons in the Alchemy line, wich is primery based on ELIXIRS and FLAME/ELIXIR KITS than I have nothing else to speak with you.

And sinds I do not wish to end this post on a flame and hit the brick wall, i’ll end this with simple note.

Peace!

I’m sorry if any of my words enraged you but I just don’t see your point of view. You feel like you need to conform to a certain way of playing/speccing, I think that those aren’t necessary. The reason why I feel that way is because I’ve been playing with turrets as a supplement to my builds for a very long time and I’m speaking from experience. You may also be talking from a PvE/WvW perspective, which is quite different from my mainly PvP background and even in those areas, I would still recommend turrets as a supplement, not the main attraction.

Xaylin.1860:

Amins.3710:

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

I think you’re trying to get too much at once.

I’m going to try two different trait spreads in PvP. Both with GS/Sw+Fc.

30/0/0/10/30 with Carrion (hybrid) . While I won’t get the Blind and Vulnerability on F1 it could still work. Zealous Blades, Focus and Hold the Line should provide at least some survivability. It will be easy to get 100% burn duration (Virtue of Justice = 2s 1,5k area burn) and the AAs will hit like a truck with the burn. If needed, sigils could add another condition as cover up for the burn but I don’t know if it is needed since it can be reapplied quite frequently (Sword AA, GS WW) and we also got a strong direct damage component. Yes, this build will be fragile. But it could still work.

0/30/0/10/30 with either Rabid or Settler (condition bunker). If the new Radiant trait turns out to be useful this set up should work quite well. Main damage sources will be burns and Retaliation. Shouts provide Retaliation and survivability. I can trigger a lot of Vulnerability as cover condition through blinds and consider getting a second condition through either sigils or runes. It should be painful to win against this build.

Rabid is always going to be a bad idea in my opinion.

Amins.3710:

Dirame.8521:

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

And therein lies the issue not being addressed.

Oh you don’t like the fact that we have to go into valor to get survivability? Well, you either do that or you go 30 points in virtues, grab Absolute reso and grab your lovely permeating heat. You get “okay” regen overtime.

You could try;
Swagg’s Bombgineer
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlUUpPrtbxvLseRSMSRnJNIF1NviKk/PKkbbB-TgAg0ExoixFjJGZM2YGUA

or

My FT/EG might stacking build that requires skills with your brain and comes in two flavours
Point Holder;
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyaX3y3F17IBoH69u4V0jKTZH/pAbB-ToAgyCpI0SplTLjWStsaN+YKC

Roamer
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpWrtbxvLseNSAShevroHVmyO+jC6yWA-ToAgyCpI0SplTLjWStsaN+YKC

or
The Bobomber
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqic3zSfF1LJxoCdGkC76XRKqMl/oQusF;TgAg0Cno4ywlgLbNOukcB

Click the names to see the videos attached to them.

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees. Moreover, once you do invest that heavily into the tree’s, your healing is going to suck sweaty monkey balls.

Our traits are ~all over the fk’n map~ Anet. Fix this first. Stop giving us useless stuff… and honestly, it’s not that the items you’re putting out are useless, it’s jsut because of the pretense of our traits being all over the place that hold what you give us, back.

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

Anet, you’re all over the map. Focus. Have some balls and make the changes. There’s more than enough condi removal in game to make this build not OP… but super fun to play in small roaming groups or PvP.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

Amins.3710:

Any time you say you’re going to do something and don’t, you loose clients.

Maybe if they didn’t delete their Sales & Marketing Team after launch, we’d have better representation and they would be forced to do what they say they are…

Funny, their sales and marketing team are probably why they don’t talk too much.

Ambrecombe.4398:

And by standing near of your turrets to get the boons they will unfortunatly draw aggro from AoEs/Cleaves wich will result in the destruction of your turret. Leaving your utility on cooldown and your team without a single boon.

Did you not see the 600 range bit?

Ambrecombe.4398:

You can already get plenty of might just with your turret self-destruct ability and what’s the point to place your Thumper away from your ennemies if you can’t Snare, Combo Blast/KB the ennemies by putting your turret in a safe place? Not to mention Protection is not that important for ranged characters because, unlike melee characters , they only have to worry about ranged telegraphs and AoE ground targeting.

As a class with a lot of knockbacks, we don’t really have to have Thumper in the centre of the point and even if we did have it in the centre, it wouldn’t die as fast as other turrets would.

Ambrecombe.4398:

The problem is, if you don’t invest at least points into turret surviability and deployable turrets you are going to see your utilities on cooldown more often than you would like to see it. While on the other hand, an Elixir build can give you more utility and boon stacking and this in a much safer way.

If you want to be a selfish player then that’s up to you but the fact is, for a team who wants to have a constant supply of boons, turrets would be the way to go. And the most important ones come with advantages.

Flame turret; Low cooldown even if you blow it up
Thumper Turret; Long cooldown but doesn’t die as fast
Healing Turret; Low cooldown even when you blow it up.

You guys are thinking, “this is how I need to specc it to make it viable” and I’m thinking nah, “forget all that noise! I’ll place the turret down myself and put points where I feel it matters.”

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

Where you and I differ is that I don’t take the Guardian and compare it to a class that is literally built to nuke people with condis. The guardian is a single target dps class most of the time and I can tell you for a fact that a condi guardian can down a Necro. The amount of Necros that have underestimated me when I play my condi guardian, it’s not even funny.

It is right to compare. After all, these are the professions you’ll face off against, or compete for places in groups with, or whatever, in the category of role. Anybody can down an anything. I’ve seen naked people win 2v1s and up. I’m sure the worst build in the world has won occasionally.

But if you compare the numbers and one is found severely lacking? Mesmer condi does more damage than Guard. As does Warrior. And Engi. So, you want to be the profession with the awful, easily handled, eggs in one basket condition?

Don’t get me wrong. I want Guardians to have interesting Burn/Fire effects. Flames are a hallmark of the class. It’s the Condition system as it stands that breaks this discussion. I personally want Guardian Burn conditions to do something unique, or stack individually, immune to cleansing, or whatever.

So it’s not the condiGuard that is broken, it’s Conditions. Within that context though, the class simply under performs in the role of condition DPS. Bear in mind the classes designed to do alot of powerful conditions easily suffer under this system too, often underperforming or interfering with their own mechanics.

When I look for a build, I look for the best build that THAT class can create, I don’t look for the best build in the game because that just leads to dissapointment.

I’ve played my build against a variety of players. When I say it works, I’m not saying that because I killed a few new players in hotjoin.

I know where the class excels when it comes to dps and I know where it falls short. I personally will not say no to more improvements to the condi guardian (such as cover condis like Torment) but I will also not say that it isn’t working right now especially for what the guardian is built for.

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

With improvement to Condi damage we deal with burning and the other condis we can deal up to 2k Condi damage per second. .

This is pants. My condinecro averages bleeds at almost 50% more than that, a burn just shy of 1k with 80% uptime, a poison of high 200’s and a wealth of other nerf/control conditions, occasional torment for extra condition DPS.

Guardian condition is flat out bad, even with these anticipated changes. I love mould breaking Guardian builds, but something more interesting than burning damage needs to be rolled in to make Guardians focus on burns. Like, make the guardian’s fire individual so it doesn’t get messed up by other fire stacks, and allows for 2 Burn Guards to benefit from the build in the same fight. And/or having that individual burn causing other traited effects, like healing the Guard/allies, or other special effects.

But ANet aren’t thinking along these lines for Guardian because they seem to think that, despite condition/SWeapons being useless for Guardian, that we’re just peachy. And we’re not. In a better place than most, but so good that we don’t need shaken up a bit.

Where you and I differ is that I don’t take the Guardian and compare it to a class that is literally built to nuke people with condis. The guardian is a single target dps class most of the time and I can tell you for a fact that a condi guardian can down a Necro. The amount of Necros that have underestimated me when I play my condi guardian, it’s not even funny.

Adamantium.3682:

Dirame.8521:

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

I think you’re really underestimating how easy it is to get these boons. Guards just by using hammer and 1 master trait already give perma AOE protection. You can get far more might from utilizing fire fields and blast finishers than leaving out a Flame Turret. These are just two examples, but the boons from any of the turrets just aren’t as valuable as you’re making them sound.

The trait is not that powerful to me. It gives some nice boons, but nothing build defining, which is what Anet has defined GM traits to be. The “waste” in my opinion is simply where this trait is. Literally anywhere else (besides Firearms) would have been a better choice. Sinking 6 of 14 trait points (new system) just for some free boons is not at all what I would call an efficient use of trait points, especially for turrets which are already very trait dependent. You have no room for offensive traits if you do this, and heaven knows with turrets you need it.

You think i am underestimating how easy it is to get boons and I think you’re underestimating how lazy people are. If people can gains boons by simply standing in one place, they bloody well will.

Perma prot requires you to be in melee, might stacks require combos, on the other hand turrets require placing them in a safe place, guess who wins?

Also you seem to think that you have to invest all your points into turrets to use that trait when the reality is, that’s not what this is about. I’ve always said that turrets are a supplement to a build, if you don’t want to take Incendiary powder, you can take flame turret and now if you don’t want to take Protection injection, you can take Thumper turret with the Experimental Turrets trait and that leaves space for another trait.

My bunker builds will now look like this;

Burst Healer;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxyKseRSM+wnDfw+ieUZLDgPFkLA
Protection + Vigor +Regen

Dodge Master;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxyKseNSM6xnFdmDVw+ieUZLDAA
Protection + Vigor +Regen

Bunker Engie;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxdLseNSE6h9NsaF9Q/WGAfKIXA
Vigor +Regen

and my FT/EG might stacking build will look like this;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpWrtbxqKseRSMqwnBpQv3V0D9TZA8pAdB
Vigor + Regen + 3 Might stacks

Supplements to the build, not the build itself.

With improvement to Condi damage we deal with burning and the other condis we can deal up to 2k Condi damage per second. Our reapplication for burn is crazy and the only thing we dont have is cover condis.
Against classes with a lot of Condi removal, all we can do is use our reapplication skills. With burning now dealing 1k per sec, it hurts alot more if someone was to gets hit even if its just a second. With might stacks, that’s even more painful.

With regards to retal, i wouldn’t count it out. Until we know the scaling, that trait is a ticking timebomb.

With regards to Communal defences I think it being in the valor tree is a bad idea. The honour line would give it a higher consideration in PvE because everyone loves aegis. It would work in my condition damage build though so that’s a plus but i still think it should be moved to the Honour trait line and the Force of will should take its place in the Valor line.

Kasei.8726:

Dirame.8521:

Obtena.7952:

Dirame.8521:

What’s wrong with Spirit Weapons? They are the most functional of the Ai skills in the game and the only i can see wrong with them is that have a chance of getting AoE’d?

I don’t think having the most functional AI skills ingame (not even sure that’s true) is a defining factor in what makes SW’s good or not.

I think there are few things wrong with them:

1. They have the worst deficiencies of both a skill and a pet (a leashed pet that doesn’t go more than melee weapon range on top of that)
2. Are they worth a skill slot?
3. The traits to buff them (arguably mediocre) are all over the traitlines

If the only thing you see wrong with SW’s is they can be damaged with AoE, I don’t think you’ve given them enough of a chance to suck hard enough.

Well, the only time I’ve used SWs is in my Guardian burst build to get the 3 second KD. Allows you to set up a nice burst combo. In that situation, I don’t need to have it up until I’m ready to let it rip. So really, I rarely notice anything majorly wrong apart from the weapon missing when I’m within range of the target and the weapon isn’t.

So you’ve never used the shield, sword, or bow? Don’t get me started on the bow xD

The bow sucks no questions asked. The main function is crap and the activated function without ground targeting is just a slap in the user’s face.

I’ve used the shield in PvE. Works well enough.

The Sword is the best one in my opinion but it suffers from the same thing that the hammer suffers from, having it’s own range.

@Obtena

Does that mean I can’t ask what you guys think is wrong? I mean really, if I didn’t ask, this thread would just be a bunch of people saying things are bad without actually saying why.

Obtena.7952:

Dirame.8521:

What’s wrong with Spirit Weapons? They are the most functional of the Ai skills in the game and the only i can see wrong with them is that have a chance of getting AoE’d?

I don’t think having the most functional AI skills ingame (not even sure that’s true) is a defining factor in what makes SW’s good or not.

I think there are few things wrong with them:

1. They have the worst deficiencies of both a skill and a pet (a leashed pet that doesn’t go more than melee weapon range on top of that)
2. Are they worth a skill slot?
3. The traits to buff them (arguably mediocre) are all over the traitlines

If the only thing you see wrong with SW’s is they can be damaged with AoE, I don’t think you’ve given them enough of a chance to suck hard enough.

Well, the only time I’ve used SWs is in my Guardian burst build to get the 3 second KD. Allows you to set up a nice burst combo. In that situation, I don’t need to have it up until I’m ready to let it rip. So really, I rarely notice anything majorly wrong apart from the weapon missing when I’m within range of the target and the weapon isn’t.

Ambrecombe.4398:

Well, to be fair, I am not impressed by the new Turrets GM at all. I’ve played my Turret Engineer for a long time, still playing it, and the only things I am looking forward are the Turret bug fixes and the Runes/Sigils update.

The 2 new turrets GM traits, while they do offer another approach of gameplay, are mostly lackluster and way to much counter productive for the following reasons :

1) Experimental Turret is a good GM to buff your party with a variety of boon but it is located so deeply into the Alchemy line that it makes it worthless. It means you have to give up 2 Major trait slots that could have been spend instead for your turret utility/surviability instead.

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

Zenith.7301:

Dirame.8521:

Zenith.7301:

Dirame.8521:

Muchacho.2390:

Ugruk.4069:

This grandmaster traits were designed with pve in mind, dont get your hopes up that they will change them.

One of the devs even said that the mesmer one that gives distortion when you kill a target is good for pvp because “teamfights” topkek

Well the necro got some gm that are purely pvp oriantated. Boon removel is useless in pve so is regerneration in ds…

Regeneration in DS is very useful in PvE. That extra survivability is always nice.

Survivability in top end PvE comes from guardian aegis and reflects, not regen, ever.

Mobs do such high hits that regen will never allow proper recovery, so the best defense is to kill them as fast as possible, and reflecting those 5k+ hits back on them is the current best defensive tool.

Unholy Sanctuary is simply not good.

Regen in Death shroud though? Literally, your main health isn’t taking any hits so it works.

Um, 2 hits from a high fractal mobs pretty much depletes your life force pool.

I don’t think you understand how hard high level PvE mobs hit. Let’s put it this way: harder than a warrior, and necro has no access to vigor so you don’t have too many dodges.

New traits will allow you to gain toughness in DS so that 2 hit may turn into 3 and its DS it’s supposed to take hits for you so get 2 shot out of DS as long as you stay alive is a good thing. Your DS just did it’s job.

Zenith.7301:

Dirame.8521:

Muchacho.2390:

Ugruk.4069:

This grandmaster traits were designed with pve in mind, dont get your hopes up that they will change them.

One of the devs even said that the mesmer one that gives distortion when you kill a target is good for pvp because “teamfights” topkek

Well the necro got some gm that are purely pvp oriantated. Boon removel is useless in pve so is regerneration in ds…

Regeneration in DS is very useful in PvE. That extra survivability is always nice.

Survivability in top end PvE comes from guardian aegis and reflects, not regen, ever.

Mobs do such high hits that regen will never allow proper recovery, so the best defense is to kill them as fast as possible, and reflecting those 5k+ hits back on them is the current best defensive tool.

Unholy Sanctuary is simply not good.

Regen in Death shroud though? Literally, your main health isn’t taking any hits so it works.

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Mesmer will be in a really bad spot after the patch so please keep that in mind when you do your balancing anet

He’s being sarcastic.

i am not wow.
do you play this game?

I do, but you aren’t doing a good job of being articulate though.

Just because they didn’t mention anything in the new trait section, does not mean there are not trait changes for them. We’ll have to wait and see what the main patch holds before we make a full-on decision as to whether they’ve touched up the Spirits or not.

For right now though, the only problem I’ve seen with the Spirit Weapons is that they have a range in which you can activate their skills and this is a problem. If you’re in range of your target and your spirit weapon isn’t, it’s going to miss it’s attack and that is not something you want to have happen when you’re about to get your kitten beat.

If they can make the range of attack tethered to your range of attack then that would be great. So if you are close to your target and your Spirit hamemr isn’t, your Hammer will still hit with it’s activated attack because you are in range. That’s the only problem I see at this point in time. Pets dieing to AoE damage to me is just the circle of life.

Different skills that are for different purposes entirely. Gagdet’s are selfish, Turrets aren’t.

You want to burst something down fast? Grab Ut.Goggles, get 5 stacks of Might, 10 stacks of Vuln and 10s of fury to boot.

Want to support your team? Give them Regen, Prot and Vigor for 3s every 10secs with Healing Turret and Thumper Turret.