Guild Wars 2

Taldren.7523:

It’s the same mechanic that procs the might each attack as well. I’ll live with the confusion.

I don’t think so, since similar multi-hit skills where each hit creates an effect only proc Confusion once. Necromancer has the most of these (conditions, life force, healing, etc.), but none of their skills proc Confusion more than once.

I’d say it’s definitely a bug.

Leave Elements on passive between fights, have Darkness on passive in-combat, everything else as-needed.

Not hugely complex for open world.

Psst, condition attacks can be dodged, blocked, and blinded just like physical attacks. Meta Tempest build has sufficient condition clear to win without Diamond Skin against condi builds of any kind, but only if you actually avoid attacks.

Supreme.3164:

You already get necros “branching out” in other nerfing directions with : geomancer’s freedom, lucid singularity ( like wow), and more; these are the same necros who ask to nerf DS…..no game will ever be balanced around the low end and I’m glad for it

Thank you for proving in one paragraph that your reading comprehension is almost nil.

1. Not everyone who is against Diamond Skin are Necro mains. I’ve seen most professions, even Ele mains, represented in these threads.

2. Geomancer’s Freedom, Lucid Singularity, and others are never brought up calling for nerfs. Seriously, not once. They are brought up as options for the Ele/Tempest. Options that, I might add, are often not used. Geomancer’s Training is on the metabattle build, sure, but many swap it out for Rock Solid. Lucid Singularity, though, is completely overlooked because of Elemental Bastion. Heck, for anti-Chill, there’s Stop, Drop, and Roll that never sees use.

3. Most people aren’t asking for a nerf, they’re asking for a rework. A fact you keep ignoring. People want Diamond Skin to be a strong anti-condition trait. What they don’t want is for it to be an auto-win against a wide swath of builds and worthless against everything else. My suggestions have always been to remove the health threshold entirely, but to make the protection (not the boon) tied to something the Elementalist has to manually trigger while not lasting indefinitely

And the mentions of Hardy Conduit have always been to point out that it’s stupidly hard to actually get and keep a Tempest below 90% if you’re not a Power build. This requires the Tempest to be bad, not the condi player to be amazing. Massive difference between the two.

Retribution or Herald ban might as well remove Revenants. Water Magic ban might as well remove Elementalists. Most professions can get removed with a ban.

No, this is honestly a bad idea. My main is Necro, which truthfully is probably least impacted by the idea, and I say it’s bad.

sephiroth.4217:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Warlord.9074:

It’s easy to push buttons apply a few condis then run around. If you can’t deal with Diamond skin you are probably bad and use condis to carry you. They need to nerf condis not diamond skin.

It’s easy to push buttons, deal direct damage, and just kill your opponent then run around without worry of being hit.

Seriously, quit trying to pull the “condition builds are skilless” crap. The only thing skilless about them is the people that don’t understand which attacks to avoid because they don’t put big numbers up instantly.

Sorry, but if you don’t even try to avoid my heavy hitters, you should die quickly.

While there is a lack of condition removals opposed to the amount of condition applications it really is skill-less.

Most of the builds I play in PvP is condition based because it’s easier to play, I spam my skills, conditions apply, people die. I don’t need to worry about chasing someone to hit their hit box or anything like that, I don’t need to might stack first or set up my “Burst”.. I just apply a few conditions, they cleanse, I apply more, they cleanse, I apply more, they have no cleanse, I apply more, I apply more, I apply more, they dead.

Thank you for being a prime example of my point. Let me draw a Power comparison. It won’t be perfect, but it should help.

Ranger is running Signet of Stone and Protect Me and finds himself against a Power build of some type. Ranger gets hit and activates the Signet. After it wears off, the Ranger gets hit again and activates Protect Me. After that wears off, the Ranger gets hit again and again and again and then dies.

Same deal with conditions and cleanses. Cleanses are not the primary defense against conditions, just like immunities are not the primary defense against Power damage. Rather, active defenses, like blocks, evades, or blinds are the primary defenses.

Warlord.9074:

It’s easy to push buttons apply a few condis then run around. If you can’t deal with Diamond skin you are probably bad and use condis to carry you. They need to nerf condis not diamond skin.

It’s easy to push buttons, deal direct damage, and just kill your opponent then run around without worry of being hit.

Seriously, quit trying to pull the “condition builds are skilless” crap. The only thing skilless about them is the people that don’t understand which attacks to avoid because they don’t put big numbers up instantly.

Sorry, but if you don’t even try to avoid my heavy hitters, you should die quickly.

ReaperJr.5967:

Burtnik.5218:

I wonder what people would say if bark skin was giving immunity to direct damage above 90% hp.. Hmmm

Not a fair comparison as there is a stat for reducing direct damage as well as a boon. You don’t have either for condition damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance

Which, I would say, a reworked Diamond Skin should use.

Xillllix.3485:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xillllix.3485:

They need to nerf condi and passive play, not Diamond Skin.

Hit the ele once or twice and its gone. Diamond skin only negates the engage condi.

If the ele didn’t fart out healing, this would be true.

That said, with only two condi builds seeing play, I’m not sure condi really needs a nerf. People just aren’t running cleanse.

Diamond Skin doesn’t need a nerf, it needs a rework.

Diamond Skin was given to the ele because the class has the lowest base armor and health survivability. Seriously, Diamond skin isn’t that good, it’s only good now because people are running cheesy condi spam.
An ele using earth already gives up on his biggest damage modifiers. It just doesn’t need a nerf… and when an ele is running healing it aint running damage either.

Any class can bunk up and hold point, now because bunkering up it’s the only thing left the ele can do people are blaming bunker ele. If you nerf that you destroy the class.

Last I checked, I never once said “nerf” I said ‘rework." It’s terribly designed as-is and should be made stronger, yet more active. I am all in favor of getting rid of the health threshold entirely if it isn’t indefinite immunity.

Xillllix.3485:

They need to nerf condi and passive play, not Diamond Skin.

Hit the ele once or twice and its gone. Diamond skin only negates the engage condi.

If the ele didn’t fart out healing, this would be true.

That said, with only two condi builds seeing play, I’m not sure condi really needs a nerf. People just aren’t running cleanse.

Diamond Skin doesn’t need a nerf, it needs a rework.

Arcade.8901:

Look, the League of Legends is ultimately team designed too, on top of it, it’s an e-sport they droll about, but it has solo Q. Because Riot in their mind.

Actually, Riot just did away entirely with the separate ques for premades and solos for season 6. Everyone queing for ranked goes into the same que.

Aomine.5012:

Basically it means Mallyx Rev need to outplay Reaper by 300% to remotely have a chance of beating it right now. On similar skill level, Reaper should never lose to condition Rev.

You have a 30 cd oh-kitten bottom, one chance of beating Reaper. If you mess one thing up, or he removes that long duration resistance from you, you’re a goner since you have no other tool to deal with condition anymore.

Let’s be honest, even strong condition cleansers like DH and Druid has some trouble against the massive Reaper’s condition spam. A one-trick ponny spec which its trick is being taken away with no compensation has no place in the current Meta.

Btw, Idk what build you’re facing, but how on earth do I see GRAVEDIGGER, a useless GS from Reaper in one of your posts? Condition reaper uses Scept+dagger with staff.

Btw, you way underestimate the chill source of Reaper. The good ones utilize combo field and staff. And chill is not even the biggest problem of Reaper.

You have a 25 second cooldown to counter their 24 second cooldown. That sounds quite reasonable to me without requiring a massive skill difference to win.

Clearly, though, you didn’t actually read my post or you would have known that me mentioning Gravedigger was purely for a damage comparison, not as something to watch out for from a condi Reaper. Basically, Soul Spiral is always something you want to limit your exposure to, regardless of what build the Reaper has.

I don’t understimate a Reaper’s chill application at all either. I use it quite frequently. However, it does nothing to a Revenant’s Resistance uptime, since Chill does not increase trait recharge and Pain Absorption has no cooldown to increase. Yes, it will increase Facet of Nature’s cooldown, but it’s possible instead to dodge Signet of the Locust and save FoN for Signet of Vampirism (which can’t be dodged) with a comfortable enough margin, even with chill.

Terimac.5871:

what is the difference between blur and distortion? What exactly did they nerf?

Distortion doesn’t let you contribute to capture points, but does lets you ignore things like Static Field.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Hey OPN, I am not quite convinced this is glitch. Have you consider passive procs?
When you first cast mark 3, you gained a condition, that I could not make out from the small bar. It is possible that this proc is from the enemy. Then you transferred the condition back to the group, but we know that condi transfer counts as the original source. Thus, when you stomped the warrior, it treated it as stomping the enemy to the other guys, thus rallying them.

I would be interested to see the berserker build. Brief review of the traitline does not show any condition changes. Maybe it is the fatal damage trait not working properly.

I’m definitely thinking this is what happened. It’s a known bug.

If you really think it’s something else, try the test again with runesets on everyone that don’t have offensive procs. Pack runes are a decent choice for this.

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

doesn’t matter if you avoid executioner’s scythe or chill shout or all the reaper attacks

you die by no cast time plague signet, which transfer 5 conditions also corrupt 2 boons and it’s 1200 range…

So once that pops, hit Pain Absorption. Bam, you aren’t dying to those (up to) 7 condis. The more allies in the area, the less you have to worry about it. If they’re running Curses with Plague Sending, that one can be baited out with a single stack of 3 different condis. You know it’s coming, so save some energy for when it does. Or bait its stunbreak functionality early so they can’t use it for 24 seconds.

And yes, you can see when Plague Signet pops, as the icon appears over the Necro’s head.

doesnt matter if we hit pain absorption or not, just use another signet to corrupt the resistance
not to mention, necro can easily set up plague by corrupting one of the stab on dodge to fear then plague, shiro mallyx only have one chance to cover the resistance with one with nature for 8 seconds, every 25 seconds.
necro can easily chill or tickle the rev with bleed or weapon swap easy chill to force the mallyx resistance

That’s really not that easy to do, but it also requires blowing two signets, which have the same cooldown as Facet of Nature.

Which means yes, you can counter it just fine.

You have the tools to beat a condi Necro in the meta build, but it requires more thought and planning now. Using conditions to try to take down a Necro has always been an uphill battle by design, but far from impossible.

You don’t need to corrupt through one with nature, just kit for 8 second and their resistance is free to corrupt for the next 17 seconds.

One With Nature has a shorter cast time than any signet aside from Plague. You can use it in response to them casting another to corrupt.

One with Nature has has 1/4 cast time, signet has 3/4 cast time, let’s say you see the signet the same time he uses it (which is impossible btw, that would require you to see through the future) you still have to react to it within 1/2 seconds
and let’s assume you have 50-70 ping.
that’s some next level super human stuff right there.

50-70 ping is .05-.07 seconds. Average human reaction time is .24 seconds. .24+.25+.07=.56 seconds total time, giving you quite a reasonable time frame in total. No precognition necessary.

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

doesn’t matter if you avoid executioner’s scythe or chill shout or all the reaper attacks

you die by no cast time plague signet, which transfer 5 conditions also corrupt 2 boons and it’s 1200 range…

So once that pops, hit Pain Absorption. Bam, you aren’t dying to those (up to) 7 condis. The more allies in the area, the less you have to worry about it. If they’re running Curses with Plague Sending, that one can be baited out with a single stack of 3 different condis. You know it’s coming, so save some energy for when it does. Or bait its stunbreak functionality early so they can’t use it for 24 seconds.

And yes, you can see when Plague Signet pops, as the icon appears over the Necro’s head.

doesnt matter if we hit pain absorption or not, just use another signet to corrupt the resistance
not to mention, necro can easily set up plague by corrupting one of the stab on dodge to fear then plague, shiro mallyx only have one chance to cover the resistance with one with nature for 8 seconds, every 25 seconds.
necro can easily chill or tickle the rev with bleed or weapon swap easy chill to force the mallyx resistance

That’s really not that easy to do, but it also requires blowing two signets, which have the same cooldown as Facet of Nature.

Which means yes, you can counter it just fine.

You have the tools to beat a condi Necro in the meta build, but it requires more thought and planning now. Using conditions to try to take down a Necro has always been an uphill battle by design, but far from impossible.

You don’t need to corrupt through one with nature, just kit for 8 second and their resistance is free to corrupt for the next 17 seconds.

One With Nature has a shorter cast time than any signet aside from Plague. You can use it in response to them casting another to corrupt.

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

doesn’t matter if you avoid executioner’s scythe or chill shout or all the reaper attacks

you die by no cast time plague signet, which transfer 5 conditions also corrupt 2 boons and it’s 1200 range…

So once that pops, hit Pain Absorption. Bam, you aren’t dying to those (up to) 7 condis. The more allies in the area, the less you have to worry about it. If they’re running Curses with Plague Sending, that one can be baited out with a single stack of 3 different condis. You know it’s coming, so save some energy for when it does. Or bait its stunbreak functionality early so they can’t use it for 24 seconds.

And yes, you can see when Plague Signet pops, as the icon appears over the Necro’s head.

doesnt matter if we hit pain absorption or not, just use another signet to corrupt the resistance
not to mention, necro can easily set up plague by corrupting one of the stab on dodge to fear then plague, shiro mallyx only have one chance to cover the resistance with one with nature for 8 seconds, every 25 seconds.
necro can easily chill or tickle the rev with bleed or weapon swap easy chill to force the mallyx resistance

That’s really not that easy to do, but it also requires blowing two signets, which have the same cooldown as Facet of Nature.

Which means yes, you can counter it just fine.

You have the tools to beat a condi Necro in the meta build, but it requires more thought and planning now. Using conditions to try to take down a Necro has always been an uphill battle by design, but far from impossible.

Ara.4569:

In my opinion, one of the best fix would be to tone down active defenses and heals of other professions. There’s too many dodges, distortions, blurs, blocks, invuln… Not to mention damage reduce and heals like 100% uptime party-wide protection/regen, etc…

Well, doing that would certainly make Necros happy. Nobody has less active defense than them.

That said, if active defenses are nerfed at all, it should be shaves. Dropping everyone down by, say, 33% on that front would leave Necros practically as gods, which would be equally unhealthy.

dank.3680:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

doesn’t matter if you avoid executioner’s scythe or chill shout or all the reaper attacks

you die by no cast time plague signet, which transfer 5 conditions also corrupt 2 boons and it’s 1200 range…

So once that pops, hit Pain Absorption. Bam, you aren’t dying to those (up to) 7 condis. The more allies in the area, the less you have to worry about it. If they’re running Curses with Plague Sending, that one can be baited out with a single stack of 3 different condis. You know it’s coming, so save some energy for when it does. Or bait its stunbreak functionality.

And yes, you can see when Plague Signet pops, as the icon appears over the Necro’s head.

Pain absorbtion, bam corrupted or stripped. Now you used all your energy and have nothing you can do about that corrupt and any of the other condis he bombed you with.

That’s…why you use it after Plague Signet. That’s the only instant corruption Necros have. All other signets have 3/4 second+ cast and the condi Reaper only runs 3 total signets, one of which is their heal. Axe 5 works to interrupt the heal, and Shield 5 works to stop any other signets (sword 3 requires prediction).

Other than Signet of Vampirism, which has a long cast, all of a condi Reaper’s boon corruption can be avoided. Given this is what will kill you as a mallyx Revenant, you should be doing what you can to prevent it. Keeping yourself above 50% means their only other boon removal never happens, and condi Reaper’s direct damage is pretty weak.

lighter.2708:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

doesn’t matter if you avoid executioner’s scythe or chill shout or all the reaper attacks

you die by no cast time plague signet, which transfer 5 conditions also corrupt 2 boons and it’s 1200 range…

So once that pops, hit Pain Absorption. Bam, you aren’t dying to those (up to) 7 condis. The more allies in the area, the less you have to worry about it. If they’re running Curses with Plague Sending, that one can be baited out with a single stack of 3 different condis. You know it’s coming, so save some energy for when it does. Or bait its stunbreak functionality early so they can’t use it for 24 seconds.

And yes, you can see when Plague Signet pops, as the icon appears over the Necro’s head.

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Youre not supposed to beat necro with condi.

Olny necro is supposed to faceroll condi builds with condi -Anet 2015

Duuhm Fire with no ICD helps too.

People were complaining about old Duuhm Fire and Incendary Powder, but now Necro has a 2nd perma burning called chill, on top of AOE attack frequency burning from Reaper’s shroud. Stacking 7 stacks of Torments or 12 stacks of poison in ONE cast doesn’t help either.

Not to mention they can deal with conditions while spamming them like crazy while you can’t do anything about it.

You could try…I don’t know..avoiding some of the attacks? Soul Spiral should always be gotten out of ASAP since it hits as hard as Gravedigger before accounting for the poison. Executioner’s Scythe should also be avoided and don’t stand in the ice field. That is where the Chill comes from. This seems obvious, but I see people doing it all the time.

I know Mallyx Revenants have gotten used to just ignoring condition attacks, but it really isn’t impossible to beat a condi Necro with any profession. Mallyx Heralds should still have a strong shot at it, since they only observe the conditions about 40% of the time anyway. Necro boonstrip has cooldowns, after all.

At first, I recommend building a set of Carrion armor, but that’s because those are the cheapest to build while still being okay to use. Stat-swap from there, especially if you want to go Viper’s.

Then again, I used this trick because Zealot’s gear (which I use for Power) is horrendously expensive to get the recipes for.

Klinch.2964:

Maybe revet Corrupt Boon back, as well as revert Larcenous Strike to steal 2 boons again for Thief.

But I’d rather see less boon spam (and condi spam)instead. Right now logic is like this, “I want to spam protection on me and others at all times.” Instead it should be, “Huge damage spike about to happen, better activate and not waste my limited skill that grants protection!” The constant mindless spam of boons and condies (and now invulns) is what kills this game for me.

Would probably be the better course of action, sure, but would require a lot more work.

Perhaps Glint facets should be changed to 5 second boons every 5 seconds instead of 3s every 3? Boon stripping would have more of an impact at the cost of the boons lasting longer after the facet upkeep ends. Which is better? Honestly, a tough call.

Maybe buff Destruction of the Empowered to 4% damage boost? 5%? Would let Warriors running that trait severely punish those just loading up on boons and expecting (albeit, probably correctly) for that to carry them.

Maybe it’s time to revert Corrupt Boon to all boons? Not sure which skills in particular sould get buffed up on the boon strip front on Mesmers, but Necro at least already has a skill intended for mass removal. Two if you consider Lich Form 5.

And before anyone cries about suggesting buffs to Necro meta builds, Corrupt Boon actually got pushed out of the meta entirely due to Signets of Suffering overall being better.

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

Wow.
I guess I left my tin foil hat at home.

This is Supreme, who has been on an anti-condition crusade for who knows how long now.

Can’t say I’m surprised he thinks anyone who doesn’t like Diamond Skin as-is wants condition builds only on top, since that isn’t too far off from his line of thinking. He’s 100% wrong, of course.

Jayce.5632:

Wing.5819:

My favorite is:
GS 2 + RS 4 = Leaching Bolts

That you get no benefit from in shroud.

You also can’t perform that one in shroud.

Nos still played Reaper, right?

-did not watch due to being at work-

I’m not entirely sure Diamond Skin changing would rip Tempests out of the meta so much as mean they actually need to slot some condi cleanse. They could do this simply by using Trooper runes without changing the rest of the meta build. Other than Dagger/Warhorn, every Ele weapon set has a condition cleanse (which is more than any other profession can say, although Necro’s are more potent).

Given Shout Warriors were once sufficient to push condition builds entirely out of the meta, Trooper Rune Tempests played well probably don’t actually need Diamond Skin to survive conditions, since they do what Shout Warriors did, but better.

Even so, I’d like to see Diamond Skin remain an anti-condition trait regardless of whatever (if anything) happens to it. Just needs to be less binary.

Nah, siphoning being largely a Blood Magic thing is fine, especially as Reaper holds the other 2 siphon traits. Blood Magic is actually something I’m considering trying on a Soldier Shout Reaper in the future. Probably Blood, Soul Reaping, and Reaper for lines.

A pity Soul Eater is still bad. Gravedigger was the wrong skill to tie the siphon to in the amounts it gives.

Supreme.3164:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

hmm complain how u cant kill ele, what do you think of chrono bunker? you know those who use bunker amulet like soldier and sentinel?

GW2 rule n1: When the opponents wins…it’s never due to skill it’s always due to some “OP” aspect of his class.

A skilled ele can defeat a condi reaper without diamond skin, nerfing the trait would do little because necros will be here again asking for some other nerfs because they’re too skilled to lose to anything that’s not OP/broken

At 200% knowing the necro community, the day after ds get nerfed..they would be here asking to nerf the “OP” sustain, then they will come for the dmg…finally they’ll come because they don’t like the name “elementalist”

Hardly. Without Diamond Skin, eles have always been manageable by Necros. Never easy (aside from when Eles were the weakest class), but managable (or did you forget that post June 23, Cele Signet Necro was the only build that had a realistic chance of winning vs Celementalist, and even that was only about 50/50).

Right now, condi Necro vs Ele is decided by a simple yes/no check: Is the ele running Diamond Skin? If yes, then the Ele wins. If no, then there’s an actual fight to be had.

What most Necros (and other professions, including some Eles) are calling on for Diamond Skin isn’t a nerf, but a total rework to not make it binary in nature. Wouldn’t it be nice to pick it to ward off Soldier builds as well? This would come at the cost of being totally immune to condition builds, sure, but it would still be a strong condition defense trait, ideally.

Diamond Skin should be strong, but a single trait should never decide the fight before it’s begun.

On the PvP front, I would say that Greatsword is all right for teamfight builds like soldier shout Reaper, since the general confusion and target-rich environment mean that you are probably landing something. On nodes, Grasping darkness does work reliably (since it’s flat) and Nightfall is always good in teamfights.

In other situations, I’d say it’s not worth it when fighting players.

harrison fang.1874:

thats a pretty low grave digger for that boss if you ask me you should be getting upwards of 200k if his breakbar is broken and you have the oil on him

Unorganized party, no utility or food, and mostly Zealot’s gear is enough to account for that.

ReaperJr.5967:

Dont you like how all diamond skin qq-ers are all condi reapers? It’s funny and obviously a l2p issue. At higher tiers, once my diamond skin is broken, I find myself overloaded with condis more often than not. It’s all about the timing.

Necros in general have a vastly harder time dealing with Diamond Skin than other professions, since they rely on conditions to fight (yes, even the power builds) rather than boons or active defenses. Also, while their direct damage can hit some massive hits, the actual DPS is rather low, giving eles plenty of ability to re-establish DS. Boon corruption doesn’t even strip boons when DS is working, apparently, which I feel is a bug. The conditions shouldn’t apply, but the boons should still disappear.

The other reason why you only are really seeing Necro players complaining is because right now, the only other profession that even uses a condi build in PvP is Revenant, and it’s no secret that they are ridiculously strong against almost everything. It’s not that DS doesn’t completely shut down almost all condition builds, it’s that only two professions are currently even using condition builds to even notice it, and one of those is also packing a Power weapon (Revenants always do, since Mace is their only condition weapon) with high Power stats. Necro/Reaper can’t really get away with using Viper amulet due to the mentioned lack of active defenses.

Extreme.8350:

I see do you think there is any hope for wvw or will everyone quit ?

There is hope, but first the players have to realize that if you want fights, you actually have to be on the map. I see constant complaints that the maps are bad because one group K-trains the whole thing and doesn’t meet any resistance.

This is not a map issue. This is purely player-based.

The new borderlands I believe are far superior to the old but other changes to WvW have done a lot of damage.

The first one being that it is vastly faster to get your elite specs in PvE than WvW. Eventually, this will not be drawing people out of WvW as everyone will have it unlocked. I’d rate this as a short-term problem, but still a damaging one overall. Of course, this is also not one that realistically could have been fixed, as there really isn’t a non-RNG method of making them happen at the same rate.

The second is that kill and event XP in WvW go totally to waste. This one desperately needs to be looked at, since XP is once again seen as something valuable to get masteries. Masteries, of course, that don’t work in WvW.

The third, and in my view the most damaging, was the butchering of the WvW upgrades. Only being available through a Scribe, which realistically can’t be used by WvW guilds, means that to be strongest in WvW, you have to spend a lot of time in PvE. Add in the absurd costs involved in getting Scribe unlocked, and then actually using it, and most players will just say “not worth it” and be turned off from the whole thing.

Changing the upgrade and tactics systems to actually be usable by WvW players will do a lot in rekindling interest in WvW.

I would personally look into giving each side its own sort of “meta-event” where defense events give you rewards, the quality/amount of which scale higher the more objectives on the map you control. Why is this a good thing? For one, it will incentivize actually defending objectives, as it becomes profitable. Two, it incentivizes attacking, since you want to claim as much of the map as possible for the rewards, but you also can’t get defense event credit from objectives you don’t control. Holding more objectives is more profitable, but also spreads your forces thinner.

By having people much more interested in defending and attacking objectives, the fights the game mode was designed around become much more common.

Blood Is Power is the only method besides traits to increase minion damage, at least that’s available to the Necro himself. Might and Fury sharing is it. Minions don’t even benefit from banners.

Timston.1976:

The point is that anet forgot how they made their game in the first place somewhere around the addition of the celestial amulet. No more class roles. Now the meta are classes that can do basically all. Dele celestial ammy = prosper

I keep seeing this argument made around these forums, and I don’t know why. You do realize that Celestial Amulet has been in the game since beta right? ANet never “added” it, it’s always been there!

Sheobix.8796:

Toughness>Vitality on a necro, because it also affects your resiliency in shroud. Therefore, the fake HP you can accumulate in shroud is just as hardy as your HP out of it.

Vitality will just give you a bigger buffer, and scale slightly to barely increase your max LF pool.

Back in 2012 I made a build that exploited this and used the old trait tree to max Toughness and Vitality stat bonuses plus Soldier’s gear to make Necro pretty unstoppable in PvE/WvW encounter. Somehing like 31k HP and 3100 total Armor was achievable.

Arguable. When you factor in the inherent 50% damage reduction in Shroud, you find Vitality actually scales better than Toughness on Necros until you get to a rather absurd amount. This is especially true if you have Soul Reaping.

There are some cases where I’m not sure how much could honestly be changed on the base mechanics level of the professions. For example, changing attunements on an Ele would require a total overhaul on the profession. In this case, actually adding to the options is the only change to the profession mechanic they could feasibly do.

Engineers, on the other hand, could conceivably see a change to the toolbelt, since those skills are not so heavily ingrained into the profession design as attunements are.

It’s a case-by-case basis, really. Revenants and Elementalists I don’t think will ever see their profession mechanics replaced or altered at a base level. Rangers likewise will always have a pet, though the actual function of the F keys may change. Necros will always have Shroud, though as we have already seen, the skills are definitely mutable.

While I agree that Reaper and Dragonhunter were better designed as actual “alternative playstyles,” I don’t think every profession can really get that.

Toughness appears to be working as it always has.

I feel like just making it instant cast would be enough, honestly. Right now, by the time you notice someone is blocking and cast the skill, their block is almost over with anyway, meaning the unblockability really doesn’t do much. Only exception is against Chronomancers or Mediguards chaining blocks back to back, but they will usually stop when they hear “nothing can save you”

On the topic of fields, since Might and Fury stacking are now primarily from field-less sources, Dark Fields are the best offensive field type. The only exception is when considering double-Epidemic condition Necros, and even then, dark fields are strong contenders.

Interestingly, some people did forge Nevermore before the patch. Choxie is one of the biggest names that did so.

HEDRO.2345:

This is not a thread about balance of a skills power.

Bhawb.7408:

Gamebreaking? If you LoS’d the Necromancer you’ve LoS’d any followup they have. (unless traited)

Unless traited like every single necro that you see in pvp. (using the heal)
I had LOS for 2 seconds, after I sat in disbelief that it actually connected.

Yes it needs follow up, but ignoring LOS, blinds, and blocks as tim wrote,
is straight up unbalanced mechanics.

I think the word you’re looking for is “inconsistent” not “unbalanced.”

There is nothing unbalanced about the skill itself since, while it goes through most defenses, those defenses are still in place to prevent follow-up, which the signet requires to do anything.

Inconsistent? Sure, I can agree with that.

How to make a Dragonhunter useless:

1. Pick your Revenant.
2. Equip Hammer.
3. Use Phase Smash when you see the Dragonhunters standing somewhere.

Boom, all traps disarmed with no threat to you.

Though to be fair, every profession has the tools of countering traps with ease. Necros have the least, but they usually just face-tank and murder the Dragonhunter anyway.

YuiRS.8129:

Drayos.8759:

well actually no, because once the system settles everyone gets to the skill level they belong, that 5 man team wont be capable of it anymore, so they’ll drop vastly in ranks down to Sapphire again.

it was obviously going to be abit rough in the start, all MMR Systems are to begin with.

Bad teams drop to the ranks where solo people are, farm them, get back up, lose to other teams, go back down, farm soloers again etc. There will be teams in every bracket, but even a really bad team is almost unbeatable by a group of solo players.

All MMR systems separate solo and duo Qs from team Qs.

League of Legends actually just did away with their solo/team que split for season 6. There is just one ranked que now.

Now, is the matchmaking system for GW2 quite as refined? Well, no. Each game tries to compensate for the merged que in a different manner. Ironically, the one GW2 uses (boosted MMR ratings for those that que together) would work better in LoL than here. LoL tries to match team compositions up similarly (so far as numbers who qued together go), which is the way GW2 should be doing it, since there’s basically no possibility of one person carrying a team like in League.

Azukas.1426:

I also noticed everyone has purposely not talked about week 2 of EU pro league.

How many times did you hear Jebro say “The condi pressure”

And why is condi pressure a problem? Sounds to me like it’s exactly what DoTs are supposed to do. Condition builds are supposed to wear you down.

Draygo.9473:

Part of the problem with conditions in my opinion is the delayed feedback from being hit by the skill. For example warrior’s pin down. People do not connect this skill as being a huge threat outside its immobilize. But it does 9k damage over time from a properly setup condi warrior build.

I don’t think for a lot of people get the idea that they need to dodge pin down. They may think- I have to dodge or I’ll be immobilized. Instead of- I have to dodge pin down or die.

Compare that to kill shot where you have the immediate feedback of that huge hit.

I don’t think it’s a fixable problem.

This is 100% truth. I’ve been saying it for a long time; conditions seem overpowered to the uneducated because there’s no big damage number that pops up when you get hit, so you don’t recognize how much damage you actually just got hit for. They don’t recognize any particular skill as being a heavy hitter, so they don’t see any issue until the stacks are high, but then they don’t know where to attribute it.

I used to see it all the time back when I ran condi necro: people ate attack after attack without even attempting to mitigate. I’m positive that once I start running condi Reaper (I’m enjoying Power too much atm), I’ll see the exact same thing still.

When you facetank a few dozen attacks, don’t you think you should die?

LeSavage.1359:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Okay, so it’s not super legitimate, given the boss it was on, but this was with no Ferocity aside from the Berserker Greatsword and backpiece andCelestial amulet. Also, no food or utility consumable. All Ascended gear, though.

How high can others push it? I’m curious to see the world record. I was running without Soul Reaping and I think I had Bitter Chill instead of Spiteful Talisman on, so I know this isn’t even the highest I could have hit.

If i hit a rabbit for 500k will this make a hero?

Only if it’s this rabbit

Okay, so it’s not super legitimate, given the boss it was on, but this was with no Ferocity aside from the Berserker Greatsword and backpiece andCelestial amulet. Also, no food or utility consumable. All Ascended gear, though.

How high can others push it? I’m curious to see the world record. I was running without Soul Reaping and I think I had Bitter Chill instead of Spiteful Talisman on, so I know this isn’t even the highest I could have hit.

AegisRunestone.8672:

Mystic Forge Stones are back in the Gem Store!

And the first one is free.

1. Why attempt without CC’s? Vale Guardian doesn’t get disturbed by CC outside of a specific couple points where you want to break it.

2. Do you have a Sigil of Ice or Hydromancy? What are your runes (grenth or ice)? Did you use Dark Path at all? If the answers to all of the above are “no”, then it wasn’t you.