So “this meta has to end”….
…so another one can takes its place? Then people can complain about the new one?
“Meta” is just an optimized build. No matter what changes they make to the build system, there will always be an optimal build for a specific type of content.
The problem isn’t the meta, it’s that people really need to stop joining PUGs with different playstyles. Make your own LFG or find a casual guild.
Only thing I see about the meta that has to end is how universal it is. Every path will have a meta. That’s unavoidable. Having every path have the same meta, on the other hand…
Just one more reason, for people playing necro, to NEVER rely on deathshroud.
…on a related note, Terror builds are basically unaffected by this, because Terror has, and will always be, the only viable necro build.
Terror builds are most affected. They don’t have access to Doom at the start and the build has lousy life force generation.
Thank you. I’ll admit, that was pretty impressive. No way to tell if that was before or after FGS nerf from the video, but it doesn’t matter because he never used Firey Rush.
Link to the video, then? Only kill times I’ve seen that fast were FGS field stacking.
Zerker can do well, yes. There it depends on the boss mechanics specifically.
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You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.
You need to put out as much damage as possible to be able to solo dungeon bosses as you need to kill them before they can kill you = avoid as many of their attacks as possible.
While true, a single player cannot put out the damage required to kill a boss before you run out of dodges (aside from thieves). Thus, building more defensively becomes optimal because those stats matter.
This is so wrong on many levels do you even know how to dungeon?
Go check out some goku solo videos where he kills spider queen in 11 seconds or whatever. On an elementalist.
Spider Queen is squishy for a dungeon boss, though. I’d love to see solo kill times like that on Howling King from the same path, for example. Or other dungeon bosses like Subject Alpha or Searing Effigy, to say nothing of Arah bosses.
Plus, that kill time was before the FGS nerf. It’s impossible now.
You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.
You need to put out as much damage as possible to be able to solo dungeon bosses as you need to kill them before they can kill you = avoid as many of their attacks as possible.
While true, a single player cannot put out the damage required to kill a boss before you run out of dodges (aside from thieves). Thus, building more defensively becomes optimal because those stats matter.
The problem isn’t that Zerker is meta. The problem is that Zerker is meta in all dungeon paths.
I’m all for having different mechanics present where varying gear sets are optimal. Heck, even mixing those mechanics up in a single path would be great! Say there was a dungeon path where half of it greatly favored condition builds (for example, lots of Husks that you have to kill). You could run Zerker for the whole path, sure, but you’ll be slower than a party with two Sinister-equipped players. Other mechanics can focus on aspects other than just damage. Times where you have to survive a fixed amount of time don’t favor Zerker gear. There are even ways to make Clerics gear optimal for a path (or section therof).
The only problem with the 5-Zerk meta is that nothing in current dungeons changes the paradigm.
TLDR: Different dungeon paths can have different optimal stat spreads. But right now, they don’t.
Elite Arah soloers use cleric’s gear to solo orbs!
You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.
Cases where the party gets split up for a time can easily favor more durable gear sets. Having to keep NPC’s alive through environmental effects favors healing power on gear. The possibilities are endless, really, but right now, none of them are used in favor of keeping PvE simple. The Six forbid that people in Tyria need to use different strategies.
The problem isn’t that Zerker is meta. The problem is that Zerker is meta in all dungeon paths.
I’m all for having different mechanics present where varying gear sets are optimal. Heck, even mixing those mechanics up in a single path would be great! Say there was a dungeon path where half of it greatly favored condition builds (for example, lots of Husks that you have to kill). You could run Zerker for the whole path, sure, but you’ll be slower than a party with two Sinister-equipped players. Other mechanics can focus on aspects other than just damage. Times where you have to survive a fixed amount of time don’t favor Zerker gear. There are even ways to make Clerics gear optimal for a path (or section therof).
The only problem with the 5-Zerk meta is that nothing in current dungeons changes the paradigm.
TLDR: Different dungeon paths can have different optimal stat spreads. But right now, they don’t.
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Real healthbar. This means Necros can take a significantly larger beating than anyone else and maintain the #6 bonus.
Necromancers are in a different situation then everybody though..
Your warhorn swap isn’t that game changing..
I’m okay with giving them at least access to their class skills.No. Their professional skills are balanced around them earning it first by building life force.
Tell me, why should the necro have to earn their defense? Death Shroud basically has it all, making that initial 20-30% incredibly important.
Or are you saying a necro should blow a stunbreaker in their first engagement (Spectral Armor or Spectral Walk), just to get access to defense? It’s like if Warriors had to use Balanced Stance in order to swap to a shield.
You (ANet) shouldn’t punish your playerbase when you (Gaile) had to work on a potato with a bad internet connection. Long loading times in a forum holy kittens … I didn’t knew such things exist.
Am I the only one, then? I experience long load times at work (strong ‘Net service as you can imagine), at home (fast cable), on the road — everywhere. Maybe I’m impatient, but posting and loading to read take me quite a little bit of time.
Maybe you are impatient, but if anything on these forums takes even 5 seconds for me to load, I wonder what’s hogging bandwith. Could also be something with the ANet staff accounts and the special tools I believe you have making the pages take longer to load.
•must live in the USA and be age 18 or older, for legal reasons
Why is this, what about the rest of your playerbase from say Europe, Australia etc.
Who decides on who gets this position etc, I know 1 person on these forums who is ULTRA white knight and will probably love this, but this person annoys and could probably cause several arguments in topics because they cannot see the PoV of other players……
If they are in California, I’m pretty sure state law governs volunteers.
ArenaNet HQ is just outside Seattle, Washington.
It’s actually a very beautiful area where it’s located.
Why is any development effort at all being wasted on things like this when WvW and sPvP are bleeding to death. Not to mention lack of dungeons (read, repeatable end game content).
You know what the main focus of this patch was? Not gem store items. Not even Living Story (although that was a large focus). It was PvP overhauls.
I want a fox.
Then I can send a fox to someone. (Best if read with a British accent.)
What’s the fastest way to reach the villagers?
Has to sound like a dolphin.
Keep in mind that Vampiric Rituals only heals yourself, not allies.
If you’re going for "healing support " you take Transfusion as a trait. Don’t argue, just do it.
It’s difficult to use, but Renewing Blast gives the highest allied HP/second out of any profession in the game all on its own. In PvP, pop a Cleric’s amulet on and you’re healing significantly over 800 per life blast. The problem? It’s only going to heal an ally in WvW zerg fights or stack & smack fights where you don’t usually need the healing.
Thanks! Any chance some of it’s canon? :P
Runes and sigils still function normally as Caithe. When I was sitting with well over 3.5k condition damage (thanks to the massive condition damage and vitality boosts via Scavenger runes), I didn’t notice any difficulty in killing things.
- Frog
That would be unique to you, I would hope.
My friends and I have been calling them “Xunlai Pigeons” because, like the Xunlai agents of GW1, they will show up literally anywhere. Even in places that you would think are too dangerous.
We believe that these pigeons were the true backbone of the Xunlai banking monopoly, but the training or breeding methods (a closely guarded secret) were lost sometime after Primordius awakened. Much more recently, Evon Gnashblade discovered the methods again, possibly from digging through remains of the Xunlai agents or their documents.
Using the Xunlai pigeons, Gnashblade built up the Black Lion Trading Company, able to transport goods and coin anywhere in the world by using one of these amazing birds, capable of boring through solid stone or swimming in the deepest oceans with the ease normal birds glide through the air, fearing no hostilities from other beasts. The birds even seem to be precognitant, picking up goods or coin within seconds of a customer deciding to make a transaction (as they were already nearby).
Now, it appears Gnashblade has successfully raised gryphons to accomplish this task as well, but due to the much smaller number of suitable gryphons, he sells contracts to people, as there simply are not enough Xunlai Gryphons for everyone to use. We can guess that he is experimenting with other creatures as well. One success breeds another.
What is this thread even about now? O.o
Tacos…and nachos.
Why are these not craftable foods in game?
(I want to see how off topic we can get without attracting mod attention now :p)
Ever since the new gem-gold interface was released, people have been having oddball amounts of gems that are actually completely worthless. They are too low of an amount to buy anything with, not even coins. I can’t say for sure how ANet feels on this, but the players do see it as a problem. Perhaps not at the top of their lists, but a problem nonetheless.
:)
I’m well aware of that button. However, right now, try to convert 9 or fewer gems. Guess what? You can’t do it. Any quantity of 9 or fewer gems right now is completely worthless. You can’t buy anything with them, and you can’t convert them to coins.
@ghost: They did add a custom amount button, but unless you have enough gems to buy 1 gold integers, you can’t do anything.
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Ever since the new gem-gold interface was released, people have been having oddball amounts of gems that are actually completely worthless. They are too low of an amount to buy anything with, not even coins. I can’t say for sure how ANet feels on this, but the players do see it as a problem. Perhaps not at the top of their lists, but a problem nonetheless.
So, what are some possible solutions?
Here are my ideas:
1. Gem-> Gold conversion gives exact amount in coins instead of limiting it to integers of gold.
Pros:
- This was how it worked at launch, and I’m pretty sure nobody complained about the functionality.
- Coding has already been done, just needs to be integrated into the new system.
- Universal appeal. Everyone likes a bit more silver.
- No worthless gems left over.
- Would lower gold-> gem exchange rates slightly (most would see no change, though)
Cons:
- Makes the gems-> gold UI have more numbers on it, I guess.
2. Offer a consumable for 1 gem in the gem store. This could be an essence of luck, a large loot bag, or something similar. Something that is already easily obtainable in-game is preferential.
Pros:
- No more worthless gems.
- With Large Loot Bags or something similar, the economy would not see a significant shift, as the amount bought with gems would not be noticeable with the massive volume already being traded.
- Fairly universal appeal.
Cons:
- If Essence of Luck was chosen, the problem would not be solved for players with max luck already.
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Power creep, power creep…
If 6-0 skills in addition to cooldowns would rely on consuming your Life Force in order to even work, I doubt we would see any power creep.
No, this is the very definition of power creep. Currently, we have nothing there. You are talking about replacing nothing with something. It doesn’t even matter if those skills are a 3 second cast to deal 1 damage a piece, that is still better than what we have right now in those slots. Ergo, power creep.
Showing the cooldowns for our heal, elite, and utilities while we’re in death shroud? Quality of life change, as it doesn’t allow any plays to be made that previously couldn’t be. I don’t think it’s necessary, but I have no issues with it.
Adding new death shroud skills? Forget it.
No. 6-0 utility places HAVE to be reserved for future Death Shroud skill expanding.
Non-DS utility cooldowns should have their counters above the utility skill bar.
Having more skills added to DS is a huge power creep, one I hope never happens and realistically probably won’t.
I disagree, they should be reserved for more deathshroud skills and your claim that it is power creep is unfair because you cannot judge its effectiveness until it has been put into place, under any circumstances.
Inventing new skills where there were none is power creep, not sure how you can’t see that.
It would be nice if this change were put in that could also somehow make signets work in death shroud as well.
So new Grandmaster traits aren’t power creep but skills are?
No, new Grandmaster traits are an example of horizontal progression. To use one, you have to give up another Grandmaster trait. There is a cost to using a new Grandmaster trait (or any new trait, rune, sigil, food, or skill). This is not power creep (though certain options may be overpowered).
Adding skills 6-0 to Death Shroud is Power Creep, because to use them, you aren’t giving anything up. You just get them. When Tainted Shackles was introduced, that was power creep, since every necro got something for nothing. However, this goes to show that power creep isn’t inherently bad as before that, Necros were in a rather sorry spot. Now, Necros are pretty good (except in PvE). Still need some changes, but power creep is not needed.
Also, Rapid Fire had neither its damage, nor velocity increased. Only thing that changed was the cast time.
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Let’s allow poc rp terrormancers to be burst healed by their teammates while in DS sounds like good balance.
Because Mirrored Anguish Mesmers popping Distortion can’t be? What about Elixer S engies? Signet of Stone Rangers? Guardians using Shelter?
Literally no other defense in the game denies allies burst healing. Only Necros have this issue.
The necro can exit deathshroud at any time, can you exit distortion, elixir s, signet of stone, shelter, mist form?
I get the frustration, I just know that allowing necros healing in deathshroud would be OP I’d everything else in game is the same.
I’m not the greatest necro, but holy kitten if you let my teammates burst heal me and include the hot effects anything other than 3v1 against the necro and he’s got a legitimate shot.
Why would you want to leave Distortion or Signet of Stone? You have full access to your skills in those (which is better than what necros have, incidentally). Keep in mind that Distortion is actually a Mesmer class mechanic, so it’s available in every build.
Suddenly allowing all healing in Death Shroud may or may not be OP, but I have never advocated for 100% of healing affecting the necro right off the bat. That can be an end goal, not the first step.
No, I’ve advocated for steps and evaluation. First, healing from traits (Parasitic Bond, Parasitic Contagion, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric, Vampiric Master, and Vampiric Rituals) and the Regeneration boon functions normally in death shroud. Then, we have an evaluation period. Then we add in some additional healing that gets allowed and have another evaluation period. Repeat the process until we eventually have full healing in death shroud or we find the point at which the healing does actually become OP.
Let’s allow poc rp terrormancers to be burst healed by their teammates while in DS sounds like good balance.
Because Mirrored Anguish Mesmers popping Distortion can’t be? What about Elixer S engies? Signet of Stone Rangers? Guardians using Shelter?
Literally no other defense in the game denies allies burst healing. Only Necros have this issue.
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I play a similar build to this one except with a staff for the control.. The only class I have any issues with are any half decent necros, they just nail me.. Any ideas on that matchup?
Being a main on condition necro, my advice is to avoid as much as possible. When you load up a condition necro with conditions, you’re just giving them ammo. This is very important to recognize and plan for. Generally speaking, the advice for taking on a necro with any condition build is “try not to.” The profession is incredibly resistant to them.
That said, it is possible, but you will be at a disadvantage. First, keep your distance as best you can. This is primarily so you can avoid Dark Path and Deathly Swarm as well as entirely deny Tainted Shackles. Although the OP’s build is mono-attunement so Chill doesn’t hurt quite as much, the chill alone will cause problems, not to mention the possible boon corruption. When they switch to Staff, then things get tricky. You want to avoid Putrid Mark. Don’t bother blinding the necro, it doesn’t stop Putrid Mark (instead, you get it). However, its cast animation is similar to Mark of Blood and Chillblains. Not a lot of advice I can give you, as the biggest difference in animation is after the Mark is finished casting. Reaper’s mark has a unique animation, though, so keep an eye on that as well.
Doom is usually reserved for when the necro is CC’d, when you’re using your heal, or to try and ensure a Dark Path’s landing. If you see the Necro pop into death shroud when you CC him or you’re healing, dodge. You don’t have time to try blinding him. Other uses of Doom are tougher to react to. If he sets up a Spectral Wall, then goes into death shroud, ready your stunbreak as he will fear-chain you if possible.
If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?
You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?
This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.
So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.
The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”
Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.
We all know that not every change in a patch is documented in the patch notes. This can often cause confusion among players as to what changes are actually intended and which are bugs. The hope for this thread is that we might be able to get some answers as to which changes are intended and which are bugs.
What this thread is: A place to list undocumented changes in patches, hopefully getting a dev response as to which are bugs and which are intentional changes.
What this thread is not: A place to discuss what we think should be features or how skills/traits/mechanics should work. Please, no discussion over changing things unless a dev initiates said conversation.
As for what changes go here, please use some common sense. For examples of resolved undocumented changes, the Descent Into Madness bug was very clearly not intended. However, the canceling of casts as a Necromancer runs out of life force was much more questionable (turns out, both were bugs).
If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?
You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?
This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.
Shaoginhttp://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire
Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o
You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.
So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)
Thought we were talking about viable build options. I don’t consider dhuumfire viable. You may think something else, idc. Many traits are in the wrong traitline for a necro, including dhuumfire. Putting 6 in a power traitline for a condi spec is a waste if you want to play a condi build. Again, this is my opinion.
If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?
Shaoginhttp://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire
Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o
You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.
Any Power build that goes 6 into Spite is taking Close to Death. Dhuumfire isn’t even worth an afterthought unless you have invested heavily into Condition damage. If you have, you don’t have a Power build.
Can you take Dhuumfire in a Power build? Sure, but you’re gimping yourself for no real reason.
I said the strength was “manipulation.” This includes enemies using conditions against the players as well as players using them against enemies. If a PvE area encouraged condition-heavy play as well as used it, Necros would emerge as being very desirable. The reason is because necro condition builds are also very strong against conditions. Engineers and Mesmers (who can out-do Necros on the offense front) have to choose between being good with conditions or being good against them.
People keep saying make condition damage better to make necro better. You do realise that necro is one of the worst condition classes in PvE.
Until you factor Epidemic. Then even if somebody else is better than a necro, the necro is now 5 times as strong as they are. Varies with enemy numbers, though. Only Engineers can come close to the AoE condition applications of necros.
That said, since the Necro’s greatest strength is indeed condition manipulation (ckeanses, transfers, etc.), making that strength more valuable in PvE would help quite a bit. Mordrem are a good step in the right direction.
I suppose I could have deleted “in PvP,” because I don ’t think it gets used anywhere except the end boss of Citadel of Flame path 1.
It’s not that the skill is bad per se, it just doesn’t make the cut on the skill bar.
Fresh Air ele, no contest. 26k in less than 1.5 seconds. And that’s without pre-buffing to 25 Might.
Projectile negation has been on anyone’s list really, and mostly discussed with Corrosive Poison… To be fair, I think the only reason they are holding back is because it has a lot of “utility” within the competitive scene already (on point weakness+poison), and as we know, skills will never be split across the board “Because it would be too confusing” -.-’
And yet, nobody takes the skill in PvP…
Other than Transfusion. I don’t feel that should heal necros in death shroud.
If it did, and I think it should, then it deserves a grandmaster spot. Of course it would be strong but a 6 point investment in Blood Magic forces a compromise.
I’ll be honest, I hadn’t considered moving Transfusion to a different tier before. Not sure Grandmaster is appropriate, because while Transfusion healing the necro in death shroud would be strong, I don’t think it would be that strong. Perhaps swapping places with Deathly Invigoration or Quickening Thirst would be enough.
Death Shroud could use a couple tweaks, but the basis of how it currently works is fine. Really, what needs tweaking is how some of our traits interact with is (read: any that heal us).
Yepp all the redesign DS needs, is to allow the healing/siphon traits to work while in DS.
Other than Transfusion. I don’t feel that should heal necros in death shroud. Perhaps after some playtime with siphon traits, Parasitic Bond, and Parasitic Contagion working in death shroud, I may feel differently, but for now, leave that out.
And make the Regeneration boon heal us in death shroud too. Boons should never be pure liabilities.
I would say necros already have definite resource management regarding life force. Death Shroud is a powerful tool, and its use greatly separates the great necro players from the bad ones. That said, it has a couple issues, namely with fighting directly against siphons in function. They need to change it to allow traited healing (aside from Transfusion) and the Regeneration boon to heal you while in Death Shroud.
Death Shroud could use a couple tweaks, but the basis of how it currently works is fine. Really, what needs tweaking is how some of our traits interact with is (read: any that heal us).
To be fair, ANet was explicit all along that Torment would not be Necro specific. Necros still have the only AoE Torment skill, but that’s also all the Torment the profession has, which is stupid.
Might want to clarify if you’re talking about Dagger 2 (which was recently buffed on the healing front and is now rather good), or the Blood Magic traits.
Because some people, he just wants to kill slowly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
One thing, though is that the SAB category is the largest header and was a limited time event. it seems like it could fit with the “festivals” category if festivals were renamed something else. but that is the name in the bank for that section as I recall.
Hmm, very true. Since most of these items should be hidden if you don’t have it, it shouldn’t get too cluttered, unless you have them all. I’ll move them and see what happens.
According to the release page, SAB (along with festivals) is now categorized as a special event. The name in the material storage for festival materials is “Festive”, but I don’t consider SAB items as festive items. So I’m not sure what name would fit best for both festivals and SAB. Though, for now I’ll leave it at festivals.
Why not move it over and call it “special events?” That covers SAB and festivals quite nicely.
the synergy with deathshroud/unholy sanctuary is pretty cool.
What synergy?
You can enter death shroud during the Vampire rune’s mist form, giving you a few seconds of invulnerable death shroud.
People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.
Interesting…. so all the classes which used Strength are now transitioning to Hoelbrak?
I think Sigil of Malice + condi duration runes could work well to counter this, but then you basically lose a sigil to compensate… but they lose 5% more damage and might duration so I guess it’s a tradeoff, maybe.
Or Spite could crawl into the meta.
At the very least, every Celestial ele in the NA ToG was using Hoelbrak runes. I can’t say it’s become meta for everyone who used Strength runes to now use Hoelbrak, but the top tier players seem to think it’s a worthwhile trade.
Of course, since the bane of Celestial eles is Corrupt Boon, it rather makes sense to lose a bit of offense to mitigate that weakness.
1. Yes, but horribly. Vampiric master scales at ~1.7% healing power. The rest, .4%.
2. Yes. Rather well now on Life Siphon (dagger 2) at 8.4% per tick, or 75.6% overall. Signet of Vampirism scales at 20% per stack, and Signet of the Locust scales at 24% Recall that Bloodthirst increases all of these by 20%, which makes Life Siphon scale at 90.72%. Life Siphon’s damage, unlike all other siphons, is unaffected by Bloodthirst, however.
3. Just the healing portion scales with healing power. Damage scales with Power instead.
Also, my advice is don’t bother. The traits are universally terrible and you get more lifesteal from eating an omnomberry ghost than from taking every life siphoning trait we have combined.
As for Hoelbrak runes… I never thought of those. Do people actually use them? I thought Strength Runes are a thing instead (I don’t know).
People have realized that trading the 15% Might duration for -20% condition duration is a really good trade.
For facing…we watch the enemy. Seriously facing is the easiest thing in the game to keep track of, because it involves only looking at the screen.
When to dodge varies with each enemy. Some windups are absolutely huge (Lupicus’ ballerina impression), others not as much (devourerer knockdowns/fears).