They shouldnt be killed….
Because they are already dead?
You must have missed it the first time so I bolded it for you…
Other half of the post. The one directed at the new thread.
The new bug list thread is pathetically incomplete. The first one was ignored for so long that no one with half a brain feels it is worth it to contribute to a new one…
That. That is what I take issue with.
It’s Dredlord. He’ll kitten and moan all day, but if you ask him to contribute something, he runs away and hides after insulting you.
My guess is that even though he knows its incomplete, he doesn’t know exactly what is missing.
Ah drarnor shouldn’t you be giving someone incorrect advice (the worst kind of contribution) about the necro class?
I noticed you didn’t reply with any proof to this post.
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Did your dagger mysteriously stop cleaving?
You must have missed it the first time so I bolded it for you…
Other half of the post. The one directed at the new thread.
The new bug list thread is pathetically incomplete. The first one was ignored for so long that no one with half a brain feels it is worth it to contribute to a new one…
That. That is what I take issue with.
Lol they are both directed at the new thread, you are one thick cat.
The new bug list thread is pathetically incomplete. The first one was ignored for so long that no one with half a brain feels it is worth it to contribute to a new one…
Hey, kitten. If you’re gonna complain it’s incomplete, would you at least submit a bug to it first? The reason it’s as small as it is, is because those are the bugs I found on the old list that were still broken.
You must have missed it the first time so I bolded it for you…
intended
You say this, but what you actually mean is how you expect the necromancer to be, or how you interpret the designer’s intentions. For all you know the designers might intend the necro to be a broken class. No one is saying the necro does not have problems, such as broken minion AI. But myself and others have found builds that don’t just kill one or two people, as you tried to dismiss them, they work extremely well and play to the strengths of the necromancer. If you can’t see what we see, that’s fine, maybe the class is not for you.
Here is the up to date bug thread, please ignore the stickied one from now on: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-Bug-Compilation-Mk-II/ Note that 90% of remaining bugs are tooltip errors.
The new bug list thread is pathetically incomplete. The first one was ignored for so long that no one with half a brain feels it is worth it to contribute to a new one…
Also, I’m not sure where exactly people got the idea that Dagger doesn’t cleave. It does. It is a very small area, but it does indeed cleave.
Oh this is good news! And from our foremost necro “expert” drarnor!!!
Tell us more about our cleaving dagger…
i havent played in weeks, please show us screenshots and video of you cleaving all the live long day with your dagger.
I think the best change for siphon would be to front load most of the healing and backload most of the damage.
The healing and damage numbers are roughly ok with maybe a slight damage boost right for the end of the channel.
It would also allow us to get a bit more healing off against builds with alot of interupts and make the healing more reliable while also making it dangerous to let the channel finish without dodging or interupting.
another idea to make DS more build friendly
allow us to slot what we want, for example allow power builds to slot lifeblast in both DS and underwater DS and allow condition builds to slot plague blast in DS as well as underwater. Let us choose if we want to single target fear or the cone fear in either or both.
Simple and easy
DS 1 hits very hard, to the point I have stopped slotting Lich since I found I wasn’t using it much
I gear with mostly berserker and some toughness gear and I can hit up to 6k + Lifeblast crits.
3k range would be low average and average would be 4-4.5k
why would you expect it to hit hard on a condition build where you can spike 1 damage stat and commit the other 2 stats to tough/vit for huge survivability.
The real problem with DS and “bursting” damage is that it’s negated by someone elses burst. I find other burst classes can take me from 100% to 50% lifeforce faster than I can get 1 or 2 lifeblasts off and then the damage is quite weak.
Everyone can dodge and CC to some extent so that works for stopping all classes Burst and that is fair on both sides. But when the opponents burst negates my burst automatically then that is a failure in design.
Both classes need to wait on cooldowns to burst again but the necro has to both work on survival and building lifeforce which can also be cooldown dependent and not available.
Dear Anet,
Don’t let them burst my burst…
my god you are as thick as a minion….
I’m not trolling you, I’m mitigating your ignorance for the benefit of the necro community.
This is happening in multiple threads.
Stop giving advice, you are not equipped for it.
If you want to be in death shroud as much as possible, needing to wait those extra 6 seconds for it to recharge can be rather annoying.
And I’m the one not helping anyone… Look at your own posts, please.
6 seconds? you mean 5? you don’t even know what your DS cooldown is…
Yes, no advice is better than your incorrect advice.
If he had followed your advice he would be doing less dps than his original build. READ his original post!!!!!!!!!!
just stop posting and start learning about the necro before you try and give anyone else advice please.
Suggestion 2: Swap Hemophilia for Weakening Shroud. At most, you’re only getting an additional tick per skill (2 on Enfeebling Blood, but I disagree with your choice of offhand, see below). Given the amount of time you plan on spending in death shroud, getting 10 seconds of bleed in an AoE (plus weakness) each time you enter is better than an additional tick on 5-25-second cooldowns that are not your focus.
more fail advice…
Reapers precision is the best choice here, what is he going to hit with weakening shroud when he is fighting at range? What a total waste, you would have him popping off weakening shrouds with no one around on a boss fight and spamming his staff abilities with full time fury. LOL
The reason I suggest the Valkyrie variants is because the added Vitality will actually increase the amount of time you are able to stay in DS with >50% LF, and it will provide you with the added benefit of a bit more survivability.
more misinformation
Vit does not increase the time you are able to stay in DS, there are entire threads in this forum devoted to testing that and even a dev post regarding it.
Vital Persistence is the only thing that increases the time you can stay in DS.
Read the OP he wants damage not survivability.
take 5 points out of Curses and put them into Soul Reaping. If using death shroud to its fullest is your plan, you either want half recharge (which lets you get perma-fury) or stability on entering, depending on the exact situation. 2% bonus damage per condition on the enemy is pretty weak in comparison to the bonuses you get from 30 in Soul Reaping. If you were continuing on for 30 in Curses, it would be worthwhile, but 25 is a pretty bad breakpoint.
why do you keep giving people fail advice….
The only way he will get perma fury is if he toggles DS on and off instantly at each cooldown and then he gets no benefit from huge life blast crits if he isn’t staying in DS from 100% to 50% life force. He told us his playstyle already and that isn’t it.
He said he wants a PVE ranged damage build, why would he take stability?
Just stop posting, you aren’t helping anyone.
Regardless, I would suggest trying 15 points in Curses for Fury on entering death shroud.
Did you even look at his build? It has this trait in it.
I tried to. The link took me to the very start of the builder (no build yet). Perhaps this is an issue with my browser, but I could not see any build.
I think you are just lazy. You didn’t check the links in the other thread either when you were clearly wrong about how certain abilities work.
Regardless, I would suggest trying 15 points in Curses for Fury on entering death shroud.
Did you even look at his build? It has this trait in it.
“perfect world” has nothing to do with it. In PvE, that is how much it will help. Against a number of players, that is how much it will help. Against glass cannons, it will not do much, but they should be killed off easily enough anyway.
A 66% reduction is a 2/3 reduction. That means it is recharging 1/3 as fast as normal (1-2/3=1/3). I don’t have a clue where you got reciprocals into it and auto-attacks don’t have a recharge to be slowed down. If you’re going by auto-attack rate, no wonder you’re confused.
@Oldbugga: I seem to remeber that in your whining about that, I posted a build that fulfilled the dev’s vision and was rather viable. You dismissed it for no reason other than to continue your whining.
lol I take it back you are not a learner at all…
1 is just an example
it was a small number for a small mind to understand
try it again then with 10 or 100 if you can’r wrap your head around it kid
and nobody complains about the necro in pve so don’t bother bringing that up again since no one has any problem with them there.
I can now safely dismiss you as a troll. <3
Bleed caps…minions… traits…weapons… yeah everything is fine in pve. You come jumping out of your trousers with insults at someones opinion and call them kids who need to l2p… and yet you spew that kind of garbage?…. Talk about not having a clue.
Yes relative to pvp everything is fine in pve, I have leveled 2 necros to 80 and put them both in full exotics and I have never had an issue with any build I have tried in pve. Problems like “Bleed caps…minions… traits…weapons…” exist just the same in pvp but those problems are far worse in a competitive environment. Honestly have you ever had any problems doing any pve content with your necro?
I did not insult his opinion. I corrected him on FACTS about how necro abilities work (mostly the math behind it) and others corrected his failed attempts to comprehend our ability tooltips.
What I meant, and I am sorry it wasn’t clear, was we don’t need people spreading the wrong info about our class and then telling them to L2P based on that info.
Thanks for coming out though, you have proven completely useless in this thread <—nota troll.
A 66% reduction is a 2/3 reduction. That means it is recharging 1/3 as fast as normal (1-2/3=1/3). I don’t have a clue where you got reciprocals into it and auto-attacks don’t have a recharge to be slowed down. If you’re going by auto-attack rate, no wonder you’re confused.
a 66% INCREASE in cool down duration.
yer lookin at it the wrong way homey. it’s 1+ 2/3 not 1 – 2/3
awe dood you let him escape
we are supposed to be an attrition class
I don’t have a clue
Let me quote the part you got right though
I gotta give credit where it is due…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled
there you go read the tooltip again and get a clue
“perfect world” has nothing to do with it. In PvE, that is how much it will help. Against a number of players, that is how much it will help. Against glass cannons, it will not do much, but they should be killed off easily enough anyway.
A 66% reduction is a 2/3 reduction. That means it is recharging 1/3 as fast as normal (1-2/3=1/3). I don’t have a clue where you got reciprocals into it and auto-attacks don’t have a recharge to be slowed down. If you’re going by auto-attack rate, no wonder you’re confused.
@Oldbugga: I seem to remeber that in your whining about that, I posted a build that fulfilled the dev’s vision and was rather viable. You dismissed it for no reason other than to continue your whining.
lol I take it back you are not a learner at all…
1 is just an example
it was a small number for a small mind to understand
try it again then with 10 or 100 if you can’r wrap your head around it kid
and nobody complains about the necro in pve so don’t bother bringing that up again since no one has any problem with them there.
well said Oldbugga
oh yes please do show me your math…
I would love to have a good laugh
My math was off before, but it still does a rather significant amount.
1. With no additional precision beyond base values, characters have a 4% crit chance. Due to the extremely low frequency of mob hits in PvE, it is safe to assume they have the same crit chance. If you question this, go to Heart of the Mists, remove all equipment, and refund your trait points. You do indeed have a 4% base crit chance.
2. Without additional crit damage, a critical hit deals 150% normal damage.
3. Weakness only effects 50% of non-critical hits. This is explicit in the tooltip.
4. Glancing blows deal 25%-50% normal damage.
So, between these three, we have a 96% chance that an attack will not crit. However, those that do deal an additional 50% damage. As such, these 4% of hits will deal the damage of 6% (4*1.5=6). This leaves us with effectively 94% that may be affected by weakness.
Of those, 50% will not be effected. (94%/2=47%).
The average amount of damage dealt by a glancing blow is 37.5% ((25+50)/2=37.5) 47% of attacks deal an average of 37.5% normal damage. This leads to an average of 17.625% reduction in damage. (37.5*.47=17.625)This applies to virtually everything in PvE and a number of players in PvP. While players will most likely have higher crit chances, Weakness also greatly hurts their ability to avoid attacks via Dodge. Either way, you are doing a very significant amount of support from just the one condition both in damage mitigation and in mitigation of your enemy’s defense. Keep in mind necros can easily maintain this condition on single or multiple targets.
For Chill: 66% reduced recharge rate means those skill cooldowns recharge at 34% of the normal rate (or effectively 1/3 normal rate). Every 3 seconds chilled lets your skills tick 1 second off their cooldown. Yup, pretty hefty mitigation, since the hardest-hitting attacks always have cooldowns. This isn’t even counting the movement reduction which affects avoidance and closing gaps.
Poison is a 33% healing reduction. I really shouldn’t have to explain this one, though Consume Conditions and Hide in Shadows are the only healing skills in the game that flat-out ignore this debuff (Consume Conditions actually becoming stronger).
Blind is actually more effective than Aegis for preventing an attack from connecting. Blind makes an AoE attack miss everyone. Aegis only protects the person it is on. Likewise, no skill bypasses the miss caused by blind, but there are several unblockable skills. The exception here is against Champions and Legendary NPC’s as their buff from that status causes blinds to only be effective 10% of the time.
well you are still wrong but at least you are getting closer and thank you for admitting your math was wrong originally
try getting your facts strait then try your math again
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakness
a glancing blow does half damage not somewhere between 25 – 50% and yes in your perfect world you will always be fighting someone with 4% crit who never receives a fury buff from anywhere.
That said, weakness is a great skill for fighting bunker builds and I have argued in other threads that it is quite valuable but it is not a support skill.
For Chill: it is the opposite of what you are thinking and your math is still fail
hint: use the reciprocal so around 60% of the normal rate easily seen if you take a 1 second cooldown and increase it by 66% for just under 2 attacks in 3 seconds compared to 3 normally. So about half as effective as you claim.
If you are going to post about necro at least get your facts strait, these boards are so full of people posting missinformation like you.
I dont know why you posted all that other kitten about poison and blind as there was no math mistakes for you to make there…
oh yes please do show me your math…
I would love to have a good laugh
It’s also easy to say that necros suck at support, but in reality, they are almost as good as a support-spec Guardian. Guardians are just a lot more noticeable.
Both classes support very well, but do so in different ways. Guardians buff and shield allies, necros shut down and control enemies. Everyone can see exactly how a Guardian is helping because they are flashy and make this nice line of yellow pentagons on your status bar. Necros put a bunch of red pentagons on the enemy instead, but how many folks pay a lot of attention to that? Really all they look at there is health and not conditions.
Consider that against a player who did not invest in precision or crit damage, Weakness is, on average, a 29.375% reduction in damage (glancing blows deal 25-50% normal damage) Against PvE content, this is against pretty much everything you face. Blind is well known in effects. Constant chill makes it so the target can only use it’s non-auto attack skills 1/3 as often. Poison makes healing enemies regain health at 2/3 normal rate. Fear locks them out of doing anything at all.
Since necros can also grant protection to the party (via traited wells or Spectral Wall), the damage reduction from enemies can become immense, even beyond what a Guardian can provide.
TLDR: We are a very strong support class. We just do it in a far more subtle manner.
there is so much misinformation in this one post it is absolutely hilarious
If this guy even plays a necro it’s obvious he hasn’t paid any attention to what the abilities he is talking about here actually do
It’s pathetic this is the type of player who is arguing that necros are fine, l2p.
why is chilled only half as effective on thieves?
it slows them like anyone else but with no weapon cooldowns the 66% cooldown increase is useless.
chilled should decrease initiative gain by that 66% instead for thieves
Because slowing a thief is twice more effective at getting them killed than other classes? :p
yeah with twice as many teleport options as any other class this is doubley true, you must have thought about this at length…. /sarcasm
lemme guess your build doesn’t have any condition removal either right?
why is chilled only half as effective on thieves?
it slows them like anyone else but with no weapon cooldowns the 66% cooldown increase is useless.
chilled should decrease initiative gain by that 66% instead for thieves
yeah its amazing I have been using it for months
people who dog on dont know kitten…
I can pull 20k damage off a proc easy and normally more in that 3 seconds
If you are having trouble dealing with the 45 sec cooldown then you need to use your other weapon and DS more.
If all you do is run around noob flailing your “OP DAGGS” then yeah 45 seconds is way too long for YOU to wait.
Based on some posts in the Game Bugs forum and some tests I did with the weapons, both the Giver’s weapons and armor appear to be bugged so that the +cond/boon dur do not have any effect.
well maybe they were meant for the necro then….
Chill causes every other class to wait 66% longer to use their cooldown skills.
The thief has very little in the way of cooldown skills compared to every other class
Chill should reduce initiative gain on thieves to balance this ability’s effect more between thieves and non-thieves.
if youre asking people for help…..make it easier to help you. link your spec in a builder.
hacks was trying to give you the same advice but apparently you are too stuborn
In WvW generally no, but if you are with a good organized group that calls targets then that would be the exception.
In good groups the first called target drops in seconds usually and has a whole mess of conditions on them near instantly. Lead with epidemic to spread all your team mates conditions and follow up with fear mark.
from a wvw perspective I use warhorn and second choice is usually the dagger offhand
but it is a hard choice between all 3 offhands
I find each one has its advantages against certain classes and certain builds
There is limited AoE on wells if you don’t want to use staves, but Necro AoE damage is tiny on staves anyway, they’re more for applying debuffs than damage. You’re not going to be doing realistic AoE damage as a Necro outside of epidemic condition manipulation.
misinformation FTW!
roll a norn for the invis and the mobility all the other elites are garbage
if you want to level fast, gear for power/crit, use a well build and use DS #4 often.
you really should be using a staff and put the aoe fire proc on it
why not add 2 more abilities
a gap closer on #5
something like a condition to boon conversion on #4
#1-4 abilities now only apply for the next 2-3 ticks but can be woven similar to bard songs in other games allowing you to keep 2 effects going at once.
yes, total agreement here.
something needs to be done with plague to make it valuable in pvp, as it is it is near useless in anything but pve.
Whenever I am fighting another necro in wvw and they pop plague form I laugh to myself.
I know the blind ticks too slow to keep up with my dagger speed and they still take loads of damage or if I am low on life I make range and cripple/chill/immobilize and nuke them down.
it is really a pathetic elite for pvp, does any other class or race transformation have that few skills to use?
It needs a speed increase or gap closer ability its mobility and AOE radius is pathetic for an elite.
It needs a way to get rid of movement impairing abilities or be immune to them.
Still they are stuck in 1 range, depending on their weapon (eles might have 300 range on daggers, but we can swap from 130 range dagger to 1200 range staff in battle), and have to spec into vitality a to pull off necro base levels of HP. They have 8k less base HP than necromancers do and, as we know, DS also scales with vitality, so we get rewarded more if we are to spec into further enlarging our HP pool.
A-net seems to be under the impression that eles are the hardest class to play (by their class philosophies page). So they justify the ele’s ability to have access to tons of tools at any given time with the idea that players need to think about more skills at any given time than the player of any other class. I do not know if I agree with this Idea. Moreover – I would agree with it if it wasn’t for the current insanely powerful tank ele build which allows the class to negate its one weakness.
exactly, all this back and forth amounts to sh i t when in practice that ele is more tanky, more mobile, has more utility and more damage and CC.
If you are in plague form and put a blind on the mesmer his moa will miss. The necro gets full use of their elite and the mesmer has to wait for 180 seconds before he can use his elite again.
And if you use corrupt boons on a daggerstorming thief his stability will be transformed into fear which will disrupt his daggerstorm. The necro has not even used his elite and the thief has to wait for 90 seconds before he can use his elite again.
There is a counter for everything.
so what you are saying is if I successfully read the mind of the mesmer and know he is about to use Moa in the near future I can switch to plague form and then “counter” it?
do you realize how stupid that sounds?
yeah and this can go on all night really…
and to make up for a smaller health pool and no DS they have extreme mobility, many damage reduction abilities including an invuln. and longer duration CC abilities.
They can catch a runner better, escape when outnumbered better and keep you locked down longer.
/signed………..
Our one hits harder and has another second of immobilize.
their #1 has more than double the range and a bleed
their #3 has 50% more range
since we are comparing…
yep happened to me too.
their puny (kitteny) servers cant handle killing so many players at once that are alt-f4’ing
Crying on these forums has been done before and is getting old.
Ignoring buggy incomplete classes in new MMO’s has been done before and is getting old.
Thanks for showing up…
And blowing the problems out of proportion has been done before and is getting old.
what problems are you talking about specifically?
Calling the class “buggy incomplete” is what i was referring to.
and how is that an exaggeration in any way, shape or form?
what do you feel is blown out of proportion?
Crying on these forums has been done before and is getting old.
Ignoring buggy incomplete classes in new MMO’s has been done before and is getting old.
Thanks for showing up…
And blowing the problems out of proportion has been done before and is getting old.
what problems are you talking about specifically?
Crying on these forums has been done before and is getting old.
Ignoring buggy incomplete classes in new MMO’s has been done before and is getting old.
Thanks for showing up…
Short of having tested before & after in PvP with steady weapons it’s pretty hard to say.
By chance, I had done this exact thing to test the force/accuracy sigils in a different thread…
Today, under the same conditions, I’m getting roughly the same numbers.
are you a pure damage build?
I suspect they may have capped some of the damage like they have with the lich #1 skill.
I stopped using lich because of this. At a certain point I noticed my lifeblast started to outdamage the lich nuke when I got more power, crit and crit damage gear.
im kitten off too, I wont reroll.
anet obviously has some agenda. I cant believe they are this kittening stupid so it has to be intentional.
It’s off to play darkfall for me now……unfortunately.
I predicted before right at launch that the necro would get kittened in the kitten till the first pay expansion and it looks like it’s going that way.
I run power build and last week I was hitting for consistent 4.5 k lifeblast crits with highs of 6k
dagger auto chains up to 8k
I log in after the patch and I am lucky to be hitting for 3.5 k lifeblasts and I havent seen a dagger auto chain add up to much more than 5 k
has anyone else running a glass canon build noticed a damage reduction?