Guild Wars 2

We are definitely in a better place now than say 2 months ago.

Hakkology.3189:

They have to fix the fear chain, like a player has to gain a buff that prevents him from being feared in 2 seconds. After the second fear, 3 seconds. After third, 4 seconds, 5 seconds etc. resetting every 15 seconds from the first fear.

That’s whats bugging people, to be fear locked and killed.

Though warriors and thieves are also capable of doing this already, there is no defence against conditions, thats what makes necro so unique and his opponents helpless while in stun lock.

Or, they could give vitality a reduction to condition damage, that would be interesting. %30 condition damage reduction on a mainly vitality armor might solve some of the problems, also making vitality an important part of spvp. You’d expect someone with more vitality to be more resistant to bleeds.

But i too had enough of all the complaints and nerfs, i really don’t like the path our class is going. I hope this PAX is soon over and Anet can really take necro with some real fixes and thinking, giving us more “stable” properties.

cmon man, don’t claim you are a necro after a post riddled with misinformation about fear and conditions…

and if by chance you do play a necro, you really need to learn more about what you are talking about so the opinions you bring here have a factual basis.

Entioch.6594:

Dredlord.8076:

DXIEdge.2789:

As far as I’m aware the finals was always supposed to be BO5…?

And the fact that the messages are being deleted is hilarious.

However show some class. Dont post this on the forums. Quit acting like children.

why shouldn’t he post on the forums, sounds like they got screwed.

Maybe you should take some of your own advice?

The tournament organizer is in total control, regardless of if he was or felt screwed nothing will change, he is requesting that preliminaries are done in single elimination in the future so teams aren’t quite so exhausted. This particular piece of feedback being suggested in the venue that it was with this particular inflammatory twist to it is what most people would consider infantile and clkitten.

That is why he shouldn’t have posted on the forums

Lol is this your first time on the internet, or an mmo forum??

This is exactly the place where you post something of this nature, infantile or whatever that other word is…

DXIEdge.2789:

As far as I’m aware the finals was always supposed to be BO5…?

And the fact that the messages are being deleted is hilarious.

However show some class. Dont post this on the forums. Quit acting like children.

why shouldn’t he post on the forums, sounds like they got screwed.

Maybe you should take some of your own advice?

Softspoken.2410:

It doesn’t, but realize exactly how crippling chill would be on a thief if it did: unlike other professions where it would slow down the recharge only of skills they’ve already used, it would slow down the ‘recharge’ of every weapon skill (besides 1) for a thief.

Plus it also has the movement speed reduction which is quite punishing for any mobility based thief, which is most of them.

no you are wrong.

if any other class doesn’t have any skills on cooldown it doesnt effect any recharges and in the same way if the thief has not used any skills then initiative recharge is also not effected because it is full.

having the benefit of using the same skills over and over but dependent on a resource pool is the reward, the risk is finite resources and the opportunity cost of using one skill over another. Thieves have flexibility that no other class has in this way. This flexibility sure as hell should NOT give them 50% immunity from a condition as well.

Ascii.9726:

@Dredlord.8076
Yes maybe it is a cynical of looking at the trait and im not denying Close to Death is a strong trait, but the tradeoffs are just not worth it. For the 300 power and 20% more damage below 50% you have to lose 8-16% damage from Target the Weak, 250 Toughness, 25% boon duration (which is 3.75 seconds of Retaliation which when Plaguing is massive) and 100 Power anyway.

I understand you are going for more tankiness but it might also be worth considering that you also give up 30% more uptime on 8-16% damage from target the weak.

I don’t go into that line when I make a tanky build either for what it’s worth.

I guess it’s what all the fotm rerollers like to listen to?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thesilentflute.8761:

They can stunlock and kill you before you can do anything it wasn’t ok when thieves could do it its not ok now.

THIS. Being Chain feared to death isnt fun. Just like Thief stealth has that debuff so they cant reenter for 4seconds the same should apply for Fear (of any class) that once someone has been feared the become immune to fear for X number of seconds.

it’s called stability and stunbreaks and condition cleanse, look into it and L2P

fear is the only hard cc that your own team mates can remove for you if you have not in fact learned to play yet.

Fear is the worst hard cc in the game, shortest duration and no animation that you have to wait to finish before you can stunbreak.

Ascii.9726:

• Unless the enemy is below 50% life, its a completely useless trait.

seems awfully short sighted of you don’t you think?

unless you are a bad necro you take advantage of this skill every single fight, you see to kill anyone you have to first get them below half life?

Allie Murdock.8152:

The Boz.2038:

I actually wasn’t talking about you, but about said thread. In 24 hours, that thread generated more dev comments and actual balance changes than the entire Necromancer subforum has in a year. THAT is what I am disgusted by.

Please understand that my job is to make sure the feedback of the sPvP players is properly communicated back to the company (note my title). The reason why I communicated in that thread was because that is my job. We have other community coordinators that are focused on other parts of the game.

The reason why I focused my communication in that thread is because it was loaded with constructive feedback, which should always be promoted. No, it was most definitely NOT the only thread about Necromancers. Also, it was NOT the only thread that I posted in regarding the Necro changes and feedback.

Now, with that in mind; This was a change that was SPLIT between PvP and PvE. The change ONLY happened for PvPers, and it was a quick turnaround due to the fact that the tournament was starting this weekend.

This does NOT mean that we ignore the Necromancer forums. This does NOT mean we don’t make changes that benefit PvE. This does NOT mean we don’t have hotfixes specifically to help PvE players.

Appreciate your feedback, but many of the things you are claiming are simply not true.

I hope you appreciate my feedback too. You have done your job poorly in the last few days.

You have brought your own bias into the discussion of class balance and it is unprofessional.

Your first comment in this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/first

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all, just wanted to let you know that we’re watching this thread closely.

Really appreciate the constructive feedback, particularly yours, Phantaram. You seem to be analyzing from a very objective and unbiased point of view, which is very helpful.

As for the subject at hand, I don’t have anything to remark about it because we’re still wanting to see more constructive, unbiased feedback. We’ll continue to observe matches today to determine if any immediate action is necessary.

How anyone could think the OP was being objective and unbiased is mind boggling.

He even states his agenda in the tldr part.
He admits he has virtually no experience playing the class.
He includes no counter arguments.
He includes none of the drawbacks to the spec he is asking to nerf.

You helped push through a class nerf in 24 hours because of one nerf thread and your own bias.

You failed at your job this week…

The Boz.2038:

jmatb.6307:

Every one of my posts.

Is it possible to report someone for telling lies on a forum?

I was thinking this as well. Almost every post he makes is riddled with misinformation about the necro class and it’s abilities.

For example He thinks the following:

“necros don’t take condition damage in DS”
“Again, you cannot reflect necro range”
“Marks can be spammed on downed players”
“Necros are very strong against burst”
“can stack burns, bleeds, and poison from an autoattack. From 1200 range.”
“You don’t dodge marks”

and well the list goes on all the while telling other people they don’t know what they are talking about.

I think it’s time he took some of his own advice.

jmatb.6307:

this is what happens when ppl copy and paste their builds and things change. they freak out instead of looking for solutions because they didn’t really learn how to play their class in the first place.

Nikkle.4013:

Pretty sure they said this was a temp fix till they could rework the trait. So relax and wait for the next patch to rage.

sadly no…this would be the exact right time to rage, so please, pretty please….with sugar on top. shut yer pie hole and allow him to rage.

we have been patiently waiting 10 months and this is the trash we got.

remember 4 months in and soul reaping wasn’t giving any life force pool stats? an entire stat line giving half it’s stats…

remember 9 months in and necro downed health was a fraction of every other class and still waiting for a fix?

Remember the massive first necro bug thread? neither do the devs…………….they never even looked at it.

Softspoken.2410:

The lock-out on skills when a player is forced out of DS has been around for a while, but I agree that it’s very annoying. Is it happening when you leave DS voluntarily as well?

no no, it used to be annoying

now that damage spills over it is just plain broken when you have to wait for your heal to show up and you went into DS low on hp.

Half the time it’s better to not even use DS and take the gamble on healing right away and risk the interupt/s.

Shar.3402:

Bas.7406:

Shar.3402:

I don’t use mist form and don’t play with cantrips regen/vigor, but nice try
If you really think that tanking big bursts, every TEN seconds, with just enough life force to get into death shroud, is something balanced, then I have nothing more to say to you or any other necro that whines for that change.

Good day, sir.

So you don’t play with any defensive utilities and don’t take access to your many forms of vigor and still find a way to play competitively? You have nothing to say because you are incorrect. The Necro has less access to their core mechanic than you do. You have essentially a free heal every 10 seconds, free boons, and a get out of jail free card if you are smart and run dagger off hand.

A condi necromancer barely has time to build the damage to absorb it, is naturally squishy, and has no method of escape, so yes the ability to absorb a single hit every ten seconds is absolutely fair.

All of the stuff you listed for ele, comes from traits…
Free heal every 10 seconds? that’s 45 trait points in arcana and water (and you can’t have that if you want to run fresh air). Free boons? that’s a trait. The “get out of jail free” card doesn’t work if you’re immobilized, and since there is no specific “remove immobilize” skill, you have no control on which condition you’re cleansing…yeah, removing that immobilize among other 6 conditions is gonna be easy (luckily necros don’t have immo…unless you get caught by DS5 last tick.)
Do you know that elementalists ARE FORCED to spend FIFTY points in defensive traits just to not get utterly destroyed by a butterfly that hit them in the face?
So yeah, being able to absorb 13k damage hits with 1k lifeforce DS, as a class mechanic, is stupid, broken, and cannot be defended by any rational man.

why not other classes can do better already, learn your game and then come back and talk to us about it…

Laxuar.3504:

Just an other thing to necro DS. When you are in death shroud you take no damage from donditions like no heal.

lol, these are the kind of people that are asking for necro nerfs…

I even heard Bill Brasky plays a necro mancer…

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bill-brasky-holiday-inn/n10832/

vicious.5683:

so they need to be punished for not bring condi removal too?

yes, yes and yes

also I forgot to mention I don’t think warrior cc should be nerfed.

after reading more posts it really seems like the cry train is fueled by people who don’t want to change their spec to deal with a new meta.

when people start building for stability and cleansing again this spec will fade faster than DS pre bug fix.

there is so much misinformation about necros in this thread from the nerf callers it is ridiculous…

the OP is not being objective in the slightest, perhaps he could add to his first post all the drawbacks and weaknesses to the build he is crying about?

Why wouldn’t he post this in the necro forums if it wasn’t just another nerf thread because people aren’t used to losing to necros?

How well does he know the class after playing one for only a couple days?

It is sad to see the devs are watching this thread in particular as part of their decision making process for class balance. It would be like Obama watching Fox news to gather information for all his decisions.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

spoj.9672:

Dagger is better.

Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.

Better? No.

Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.

Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.

More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.

I prefer axe for:

1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvP

Dagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.

nah you got it backwards there at the end, you probably mixed up your weapons too for that matter.

Benji.9203:

vicious.5683:

Benji.9203:

LastDay.3524:

Unless I’m mistaken those videos used Spectral Armor, which means you can just casually say “Mist Form” and walk away.

None the less I was pleasantly surprised by how good it is 1vs1 now.

Yeah you can damage and fear people in mist form and elixir s so it’s balanced.

yeah you get stability from spectral armor and ignore all damage with it.

Death shroud is not the equivalent of elixir s and mist form.

now you are learning…

Amen Engels…

the devs just don’t have a customer centric attitude, they are still trying to fit the square peg in the esport hole and trying to balance the game on some terrible arena maps.

Bhawb.7408:

Terror was nerfed because Dhuumfire+terror was too strong. Except now you need Dhuumfire to be a condi necro.

the thing is though it wasn’t too strong, it had great burst but still not the best.

Being the terror dhuumfire ragdoll in a match or wvw still sucked.

It was a burst build with no stability and really bad LF generation and really no other defensive skills.

The build was great against crappy players and passable against anyone using CC or condi cleansing.

yep I knew it too…

easy to notice when fighting thieves.

just shows what a fail bunch are working on this game when they find bugs of this magnitude this late in the game.

old life force bug, downed health, simple traits not fixed for almost a year.

Bhawb.7408:

3 ways to get stability and immunity to condis isn’t exactly that special on its own, hell we can have 3 second of stability every 7 seconds, and frankly better condi counters than immunity. The real thing is what can they do during that time, and how do we counter it.

no sorry immunity trumps any counter we have

just like invul trumps any way we have of mitigating damage or healing it back up

cranked.3812:

Meh, you won’t see many kites around in 2 weeks from now anyway. Kites are just the flavor of the week.

perhaps that is because they only fly 2 feet above your head and are not customize-able?

Let me spend gems on making my kite fly higher.

Let me buy more/longer string to fly my kite higher with exponentially higher cost each level higher I go.

BAM!!!

Lets see who has the highest kite boys.

Aphix.9846:

roaming, that is NOT wvw

this is where you lost all credibility, stick with your zerg and keep your mouth shut next time you obviously are as thick as the stack you run with.

if you can’t see the benefits of dagger and scepter then you just aren’t a learner…

Aphix.9846:

dagger is absolutely useless in wvw and so is scepter

How to lose all credibility in 10 words or less.

Darek.1836:

yeah its called immobolize for the elemtnalist lel
CC perma stealth thieves when they throw down their fields.. wow
Im literally just trying to find out if its even possible to mitigate necromancers by a fraction if you fully spec for it on any class, but you obviously can’t comprehend that and think the necromancer is completely fine as having no counter.

move on folks this one just isn’t a learner, yet he claims he is trying to be one…

just give him time and not attention.

Softspoken.2410:

Dredlord.8076:

Arrakiv.8703:

I haven’t run it since the patch, but…

Think about how much power a juggermancer generally has. Think about the new SR grandmaster trait where you get +50% crit chance while in Death Shroud. Now consider how long a fully soldier-geared necromancer can stay in Death Shroud due to their high vitality and toughness (and imagine tossing in some spectral utilities…). Then figure in the 30% critical damage you’d get for going 30 points deep into SR…

That requires a different trait set up than the basic Juggermancer, but it seems like it could be pretty neat.

considering the juggermancer build has what? 4% crit chance…

the extra 2% crit sounds pretty underwhelming but I haven’t tried it so maybe its just amazing. Let us know how that works out for you.

The 50% crit chance of Deathly Perception is additive, not multiplicative.

thats odd then, I wonder why I am getting non crits in DS when I should have 100% crit chance.

Arrakiv.8703:

I haven’t run it since the patch, but…

Think about how much power a juggermancer generally has. Think about the new SR grandmaster trait where you get +50% crit chance while in Death Shroud. Now consider how long a fully soldier-geared necromancer can stay in Death Shroud due to their high vitality and toughness (and imagine tossing in some spectral utilities…). Then figure in the 30% critical damage you’d get for going 30 points deep into SR…

That requires a different trait set up than the basic Juggermancer, but it seems like it could be pretty neat.

considering the juggermancer build has what? 4% crit chance…

the extra 2% crit sounds pretty underwhelming but I haven’t tried it so maybe its just amazing. Let us know how that works out for you.

Bhawb.7408:

He is referring to Transfusion, the blood magic trait.

correct that trait is what made it heal you on DS expire, otherwise it just gave you life force.

Bhawb.7408:

Actually, that sounds like they finally fixed it. It used to heal you if it expired, not give LF.

Actually, that sounds like he isn’t using that trait at all.

Brighteluden.2974:

…I mean if you’re going to consider leaving a classes based on just one trait change then maybe the necromancer isn’t for you.

nice point, now tell us how good we have had it since release.

Da Sonic.6521:

Necromancers have been brought into line with the offensive abilities of other classes, and people are used to being scared of Mesmers, Thieves, and Warriors. They aren’t used to being scared of Necromancers, and since they don’t understand it, they say it’s overpowered.

this^^

it’s funny how this kind of damage/CC combo is fine on other classes but it’s OP on necro because it’s new to them.

Gabi P.3094:

It was absolutely worth the 30-point investment back when you were only getting 3/10s out of it and even more so now that you can get 3/7s.

Gabi makes truth here. excellent!

Gabi P.3094:

As far as I can remember, DS entry used to be a stunbreak back in beta, but the notorious beta nerfhammer struck that perk as well.

even into release it was breaking stuns for a while.

CC in this game seems almost broken on a necro without it when you are fighting certain group makeups.

OP definitely not, but we did move up a notch or 2 among the other classes.

Lightsbane.9012:

Dredlord.8076:

Lightsbane.9012:

Dredlord.8076:

Chesire.9043:

You need both toughness AND vitality to see any real effect from both.

this is so far wrong it’s just mind boggling how you came up with it

toughness and vitality both increase effective hit points.

are you stating the obvious for my benefit or his?

well you are the one that said it was incorrect.

it is incorrect…

you do not need vit to see the real effect toughness gives you

and…

you do not need toughness to see the real effect vit gives you

Lightsbane.9012:

Dredlord.8076:

Chesire.9043:

You need both toughness AND vitality to see any real effect from both.

this is so far wrong it’s just mind boggling how you came up with it

toughness and vitality both increase effective hit points.

are you stating the obvious for my benefit or his?

NeXeD.3042:

If your running vamp necro chances are your also running sigils and runes and food for siphoning. If you buffed the traits siphon too much along with buffing the life force gain WE WOULD NEVER kittenING DIE EVER. It needs to.be done carefully.

oh you mean like certain ele. mesmer, thief builds?

Nemesis.8593:

New Grandmaster trait – Deathly Perception: You have a 50% greater critical chance while in Death Shroud.

How many times did i tell “you guys” (as in about 200 people that kept going into curses – but we need precision !), for glass cannoning you go into Soul Reaping and Spite not Curses… we have enough precision regardless…

The fact we have a bit of power related bonuses in curses means that they were placed there for hybrid builds to function…
But noooooooo… I said DS 1 should be the auto-attack for a glass cannon build, but noooooooo… I told you all to play the necromancer more or less as intended, but nooooo…

Who’s laughing now eh ?!

PS: sorry i had to say it, had to get it out of my system, it’s been on my mind ever since i first read the patch notes…

that’s quite the little tirade over a talent change that may or may not be real yet.

as it sits now though precision is still better, a trait like that obviously aims to close that gap more whether it is real or not.

Bhawb.7408:

Not saying I haven’t. Theorycrafting is fun, its hardly going to be a waste of time if the changes turn out different and whatever thinking I’ve done turns out useless; that is part of speculating.

lol, nice backpedal.

bawb both chastises and defends his own theory crafting in the same thread.

classic bawb, never wrong is he? if you don’t believe me just ask him yourself…

Bhawb.7408:

Really though, people have spent more time theorycrafting changes (and how those changes would affect gameplay) that were obviously not going to be implemented any time soon than people have spent theory crafting these changes that at least have a decent chance to be somewhat accurate.

lol, you included…

agreed, giving torment to thieves is stupid.

I think the necro class has gained many more fanboi’s than bug fixes since you left.

Chesire.9043:

You need both toughness AND vitality to see any real effect from both.

this is so far wrong it’s just mind boggling how you came up with it

Bhawb.7408:

Yes it would be, especially with the buffed LF generation that will allow a lot more DS time.

coming from the guy that calls nearly every suggestion on here OP

most builds will burst you out of DS before 3 conditions are gone and some before 2 are gone.

If you have built to be able to stay in DS long enough to make use of this then you have made huge sacrifices elsewhere and losing a condition every 5 seconds is no where near OP.

nope, not at all.

lose the pet cooldown reduction

pick up transfusion

yes it is more believable after seeing what other classes got.

then I noticed that downed HP was not in the notes and I thought thats it! they must be real…

amiright?

DeathPanel.8362:

I doubt there are so many changes for just necros in one patch.

Exactly this would never happen, nobody at that company would spend anywhere near close that time on necro.