Well that sucks, then its pointless for the staff, thanks anyway.
short sighted much?
try using an aoe proc?
almost guarantee a proc if you hit 4-5 targets with decent crit chance?
well the devs dont give a kitten about anything that is not working outside the mists so it wouldn’t surprise me.
maybe it has to do with agro non-agro mobs since you are seeing this with different mob types or were they all agro mobs?
Sounds reasonably acceptable.
Other PVE solution would be to reduce condition durations by 66% and increase condition damage by 300%. Same amount of calculations, just bigger numbers.
this is so ridiculous it is laughable…
sure same damage but 300% more DPS
pssst, or they nerf epidemic further into the ground….
yes please!!!! nerf that skill into the ground. It is like a curse disguised as a cool skill.
Why is our fear so short? because we can epidemic it…
Why do we have only 1 second bleed on crit ? because we can epidemic it…
Why does scepter poison not even last through the next auto attack chain? because we can epidemic it…
Why do we stack bleeds slower than most classes? because we can epidemic it…
Why haven’t they given us burn yet? because we can epidemic it…
Why will the burn they are talking about giving us be super short duration? because we can epidemic it…
nerf the hell out of it and give us some decent base condition and CC durations
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
oh my apologies, I didn’t know the teams had to be even to have a discussion around here. Poor tpvp people get so upset when everything isn’t exactly fair.
How foolish of me to disagree that teleports should be given to everyone if devs decide not to have “special spots” to teleport to/from.
It’s more of an exasperated admission that this thread has largely run its course: the OP was a non-starter, but since someone was willing to walk in and be the designated ‘other side’ of the argument, it became more about whatever they were saying at the moment than, say, whether or not Necrotic Traversal functions appropriately.
As for the current argument, the statement made was that further reducing restrictions on current shadowstep / teleport skills would increase their power to a level that it would likely unbalance the game unless all classes were given meaningful access to such mechanics. I find myself agreeing, since mobility tends to be a very powerful ability in most games, and current shadowsteps (Well, before the alterations referenced in the thread linked in the OP) can leverage a lot of power even with their restrictions. Removing those restrictions would just be a strict buff to abilities that can be game-changing already. The thought of them becoming overpowering without those restrictions isn’t that unreasonable.
Now regarding ‘special spots’: My problem with them is that sometimesThat’s as far as I got. I wrote all of that, trying so hard to be good and give a well-thought through response that took into consideration multiple posts in the entire thread and the apparent positions of most of the contributers. But honestly? Most of the posts in this thread are abrasive and gag-inducing. And I am sick of having to read them.
stop acting like a wounded animal in these discussions, if your skin isn’t thick enough that you get upset when someone else doesn’t agree with yet a different persons opinion then maybe this forum is a bit too wild for you. Just look at the your own quote about ganging up, cmon man there just happened to be different opinions and an odd number of people. No one came with ulterior motives.
So what you are saying is that teleports should be toned down a bit yet you should be able to teleport all around anywhere you please? I believe that’s a contradiction sir.
It certainly is a contradiction. Where did you get “teleport all around anywhere” in any of my posts?
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
oh my apologies, I didn’t know the teams had to be even to have a discussion around here. Poor tpvp people get so upset when everything isn’t exactly fair.
How foolish of me to disagree that teleports should be given to everyone if devs decide not to have “special spots” to teleport to/from.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
what a ridiculous belief
you are comfortable with how thing are so that is how things should work whether the devs intend it or not?
you just lost all credibility with that one.
They need to make the abilities work or not work consistently regardless of terrain.
Then they need to give us a DS 5 ability that can block any and all movement enhancing abilities on a player for 6-8 seconds.
I think you’re misunderstanding the entire statement. Having teleports work anywhere and everywhere would only make it better for the classes that already have teleports and make it worse for classes have bad ones or none. I do believe that devs intended this but that doesn’t matter if they did or didn’t. If teleports were more amazing than they are now, then they would need to consider giving every class an instant teleport for balancing purposes. That should not be the case. There would be less class diversity.
The way they work now is that you need to be in a certain spot in some cases for them to teleport into amazing spots. These need to work 100% of the time, they don’t seem to work 100% since this recent patch. It should be 100%. Learn those spots and teleports are very powerful. Making them more powerful would make balance worse.
the ridiculous continues.
now you are telling us all game balance depends on “having certain spots that you can teleport to amazing spots from”, or they will have to give teleports to everyone.
cmon, as said before it’s been done in other games.
I think you are the one not understanding also. I didn’t mention if I thought teleports were too good or not good enough. In fact I think they need to be toned down a bit.
But when you try and convince us that either having them work in only some “secret” spots or we have to give everyone instant teleport are our only options it just shows how little you have thought this through.
Hi. I like playing glass builds that make things boom. Is necro for me? I saw a video of someone hitting 30k dmg with Axe.
/facepalm
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
what a ridiculous belief
you are comfortable with how thing are so that is how things should work whether the devs intend it or not?
you just lost all credibility with that one.
They need to make the abilities work or not work consistently regardless of terrain.
Then they need to give us a DS 5 ability that can block any and all movement enhancing abilities on a player for 6-8 seconds.
here we go again with the fanbois trying to tell people that game bugs are L2P issues.
for weeks bawb was telling us L2P because he had found a way to get the broken minion ai to work slightly more reliably in the mists. Then his story changed to " I never said it wasn’t broken" after the necro community took a huge collective kitten on the idea that minion ai was working as intended.
If it’s working inconsistently, admitted by fanboi 1 and 2, then……
I’m most looking forward to DS doing more damage in melee range. The damage boost, even at full LF, is so minimal I pretty much juts save LF to eat hits…
What do you mean by minimal? because by the looks of it you mean double = minimal.
The changes are due for the end of month balance patch. There may be a few bug fixes but theres unlikely to be any class balance changes.
prepare to be disappointed at the end of the month as well then…
I bet they won’t even have a fix for the downed health by then either.
It feels like that SNL skit Lowered Expectations in the necro forums when there is a patch day.
No one even believes the stuff in the notes has been fixed until it’s thoroughly tested, and with good reason obviously…..
There’s nothing more satisfying then insta-fearing a Thief as hes channeling his stealth heal.
agreed
I used this in WvW for a long time and it works really well.
Lots of ranged AOE damage and great single target burst.
It was easier before the weapon swap in DS nerf to control when you procced rage but with good timing you can have them eating machine gun fast crit life blasts while feared when you do end up having to 1v1 someone.
Remember that Axe training increases the damage of Life Blast if you have axe equipped when you go into Death Shroud. meaning Life Blast will hit for 20% more.
I just havent found this viable since they removed wep swap in DS and on top of that axes LF generation, while not bad, doesn’t compare to dagger or staff.
This is what I’ve been playing with in PVE the last few days. It’s not a full DS-centric build, with only 20pts in SR, but still hits pretty well, by leveraging Close to Death + Infiltration Runes for 30% damage increase for enemies under 50% health. Ogre runes would be another possible choice.
this isn’t even remotely a DS build other than he can still use DS and power and crit are reasonable.
looks up from his goofy blonde horse mouthed voodoo doll
wha?
I’ve made necros before, but this is the first one I plan to keep and level to 80. I find the mechanic of switching in and out of Death Shroud to be very fun and interesting. I was just wondering what popular DS builds are right now and any advice on leveling with a DS focused Necro.
what do you plan on using it for? pvp/wvw/pve?
definitely use a staff and dagger main + offhand of choice
take unyielding blast and soul marks instead of what he has and use the 2 damage wells for leveling
People also aren’t considering the synergy some of them have with other traits/abilities, which we currently don’t get
so true….
Mesmers: We have a similar trait, just in a different line. Comparison is irrelevant.
not irrelevant, if you are going to play that game you must compare it to the one in the different line and that one is better than reanimator
Guardians: One free block when you hit 50% health as opposed to multiple attacks that don’t hit you or any other allied players after you killed something as well as free damage. I would say that’s in the favor of Reanimator.
depending on spec this can give you heal or retaliation, burn an enemy on removal or give a damage boost until it’s removed? seems way better than reanimator by far
Thieves: AoE blind at 25% health. See Guardian comparison, but due to Blinds being stronger than Aegis against all non-champion enemies, this is a much closer comparison to Reanimator (multiple attacks not hitting you or your allies).
this is a ridiculous stretch, a 1 in 6 chance that the aoe won’t hit YOU. congratulations on your imagination though
Engineer: Regeneration at 25% health. Again, we have a similar trait in a different line, but this one triggers so low as to be too late to usually be any help.
engi can come back from the brink of death as easy as any class with block, stealth, elixir s, auto elixir s. you are thinking like a necro and not an engi here.
Elementalist: 80 Toughness is pretty low, but this also only applies when in Earth Attunement, so quite frequently, the ele isn’t getting this benefit. Unique among these traits, however, in that the Ele can choose exactly when to use this trait. Even so, 80 Toughness does very, very little in the way of reducing damage at level 80. Reanimator wins out for increasing your damage dealt and reducing damage taken by your team (though in PvP, it’s just eating AoE to reduce the damage instead of taking entire skills usually).
here we go with the aoe cap again…. ele one isnt awesome but like you said it’s on demand and in the attunement that you go to for tankiness
so we got one class that reanimator trait is about equal to, the warrior
Since we are getting a patch in the near future I think it’s safe to assume that it’ll be fixed then.
lol, I have been making that mistake for months and months and months so no I don’t think it is safe to assume anything like that.
they must still be seeing how the meta plays out in………….
wait for it…………………….
pve.
When I consider the policy that A.Net has applied to balancing other classes, I can’t help but think that the Necro stands out as the exception. The slow and steady approach that was taken to reign in the d/d Elementalist, for example, stands in stark contrast to the scale of the hit taken by Necromancers during the beta. And we’ve been dealing with the fallout ever since.
this is precisely it so….
Thank you for making necros the exception to an otherwise great game.
Ok. It seems that not a lot of people care about it which I find to be quite surprising.
I hope this attachment I made would be convincing enough to make people understand how significant this problem is. Please check it out.
I’m sorry I couldn’t get past the fourth frame, I just kept thinking Fear could never last this long…
perhaps you could add a part where he eats pizza or something.
you could consider tackling your summarizing skills?
so much this, I don’t think I have ever made it to the end of one of your videos without skipping through to find the main point/idea.
it’s funny that if you have been playing a necro long enough you expect anything with synergy like that to be broken.
Sure things are getting fixed…
but if you are a new necro you should probably still have the bug thread open when you are trying to make a build on your own.
Also, I hope I’m not coming off as harsh or anything. I’m just simply stating my opinion.
I wouldn’t worry about that. The fanboi’s are a bit sensitive around here, especially when flaws in the necro design are pointed out. Some even become enraged when obvious bugs are brought up.
the real question is how cool does the animation look?
Yeah, because no other class is influenced by FotM right? I bet there isn’t anyone who started playing Engi with the HGH build. Reality is “main” classes are going to fluctuate a bit all the time. If we get a nice buff, we’ll see a lot more Necromancers, and then it will likely die back a little when the newness wears off, or the FotM switches back to someone else. Right now a lot of people are playing Ranger and Engi that frankly really dislike it, but play it because its good. If someone else becomes desireable or they get nerfed, they’ll swap off to something else.
it’s nice to see you understood the point I was making for once and yet you said in such a condescending way it seems like you thought you were teaching me something.
dethshroud should have .5 – 1 second of invul. on activation similar to downstate.
before anyone (and you know who you are) cry’s OP think about it for a minute
another class has 2 second invul on a similar timer ( I have heard this is usable while stunned)
it would allow us to get at least one full damage LB off before our life force is below half from enemy burst.
This is one reason why DS builds are weak against other GC builds (or in 1vX fights) their damage negates our burst on top of everything else dodge, invul. stealth etc.
We can either use lifeforce for damage or defence, but it is actually our opponent that decides which one. That coupled with lack of stability so we get rag dolled and can’t escape or stomp makes for frustrating unfun gameplay against a good opponent/s.
on the other hand I wouldnt want to lose stability on ds trait.
I think the trait that is holding us back is the 50% less cooldown on DS. So many effects/ boons/ are balanced on it and not worth using without it. Get rid of it and give us decent boon times (5 second retaliation, 5 second stability, 10 second fury) and a decent heal on DS exit.
I rerolled from an asura, best thing for my playstyle.
good for running away for sure
good for catching someone too
almost guarantees you get into a keep with an enemy zerg in front of it
you can travel almost halfway across a wvw map with it, before it runs out you can get 2 charges in.
just remember to hold down the charge ability for full distance
pull off the longest spectral walk/recall you have ever done
Use stealth and end the transform early for some stealth ressing
lots of uses (some practical some not)……………..on a long cooldown
almost every time I take it off my bar I regret it.
also with word of necro buffs most of the necros im seeing now are lowbie bandwagon jumpers or people who quit necro out of frustration and are getting some levels on in anticipation of being the next OP class.
necros have been so few and far between in wvw I group and friend the 1 or 2 a week I run into on stormbluff.
Wow. It takes a lot out of me not to try to have the Gods of Statistics smite you down for corrupting the beloved Central Limit Theorem into the childrens’-sample-size-rhime about the sample size of 30.
Thing is, according to my latest numbers, smiting has no effect (p > .05), so I probably won’t.
Maybe reread that wikipedia page. It’s surprisingly comprehensive.I’m sure you are math genius but I think I will side with my award winning math professor on this one and the fact that every university around the world teaches this.
I was just saying that the sample size of 30 might not be appropriate in this scenario. In practice the sample size of 30 is appropriate when applying the central limit theorem to apply sample-based statistics. You use sample-based statistics to force a normal distribution where there is none, so you can draw conclusions about a population rather than an individual. The thing is, then you need a number of samples.
The sample Blaine Tog gave us could be falsified, but I could still very well imagine getting similar results. What we could now do with his sample, is write down the amount of Necromancers in that sample, collect a large number of samples, and make a sample distribution of the amount of Necromancers per sample.
That is how you apply Central Limit Theorem, and I’m sure your maths professor and his award agree. My maths professor also won an award. It was for best Department Santa Claus, and I gave it to him. Awards mean nothing without context.
his award was for teaching math but I bet he would make a better Santa than your teacher if it was a contest.
on the bolded part, just to add since your wording is carefully chosen to reflect negatively on using the smallest sample size.
I would say it is used when you expect there to be a normal distribution and really I don’t see why there wouldn’t be? Is there an unofficial necro server I don’t know about?
Wow. It takes a lot out of me not to try to have the Gods of Statistics smite you down for corrupting the beloved Central Limit Theorem into the childrens’-sample-size-rhime about the sample size of 30.
Thing is, according to my latest numbers, smiting has no effect (p > .05), so I probably won’t.
Maybe reread that wikipedia page. It’s surprisingly comprehensive.
I’m sure you are math genius but I think I will side with my award winning math professor on this one and the fact that every university around the world teaches this.
that was “so you could see for yourself”
if you want to prove it to us ask for people to sound off with their class and take a screenshot in the various wvw maps.
Im thinking from a wvw perspective, what is it you play mostly?
as long as your sample size is larger than 30 it is statistically relevant so NO it is not prohibitive to go and see for yourself.
How did you determine 30 as an acceptable sample size?
EDIT: Alright, even though I think 30 is a number you plucked from the ether, I decided to play along. Here’s the numbers I got:
Ele: 3
Engi: 3
Guardian: 5
Mesmer: 1
Necro: 4
Ranger: 5
Thief: 4
Warrior: 5If you’re correct that 30 is indeed an appropriate sample size, then it looks like Necros are doing pretty well, but those poor Mesmers, they hardly see any play at all. (I even went a little bit past the 30 looking for more Mesmers, but nope, just the one). This was on Dragonbrand, a Tier 2 server, in case you wanted to know.
I didn’t determine it. It’s what I was taught in a university statistics class.
read more here about why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem
In that case, I conclusively proved that Mesmers are dramatically underplayed and Necros are pretty middle-of-the-road.
sorry no screenshot, you just made up those numbers…
as long as your sample size is larger than 30 it is statistically relevant so NO it is not prohibitive to go and see for yourself.
How did you determine 30 as an acceptable sample size?
EDIT: Alright, even though I think 30 is a number you plucked from the ether, I decided to play along. Here’s the numbers I got:
Ele: 3
Engi: 3
Guardian: 5
Mesmer: 1
Necro: 4
Ranger: 5
Thief: 4
Warrior: 5If you’re correct that 30 is indeed an appropriate sample size, then it looks like Necros are doing pretty well, but those poor Mesmers, they hardly see any play at all. (I even went a little bit past the 30 looking for more Mesmers, but nope, just the one). This was on Dragonbrand, a Tier 2 server, in case you wanted to know.
I didn’t determine it. It’s what I was taught in a university statistics class.
read more here about why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem
I would leave out the 10% damage on marks as even in power builds it isn’t much damage. There are definitely better options than that one.
why do you keep reporting my posts?
if you cant move on with the conversation dont post here?
try to absorb the advice I am giving you.
when I say go see for yourself we dont need a diatribe on how accurate the info is statistically because………
your just going to go see for yourself…..
While I can’t speak for the rest of the readers of this thread, I’ve been reporting your last few posts because they’ve been contentless and abusive. I’d assume they’re getting removed because a moderator thinks something similar.
Unfortunately, population demographics at large are nigh impossible to “go see for yourself”. As much as I advocate testing things yourself in regards to skill and trait details, especially bugs, the sample size that you’d need to make sure that the population trends that you’re seeing are accurate is prohibitively large for a player to acquire single-handedly. Even the larger-scale surveys on forums and the like are prone to sample bias.
Personally, I would love to know the general proportions of professions in various modes of the game. I’m very certain ANet tracks such statistics, but I’m equally sure that they don’t release that kind of data to the public because if the general player base could see it, it could seriously alter which professions they play and reduce the accuracy of that data in determining which classes don’t feel fun / powerful / interesting.
And as a general note? Making sure that information is accurate and statistically relevant is very important if you’re using it to fuel major decisions, such as the design direction of a profession.
as long as your sample size is larger than 30 it is statistically relevant so NO it is not prohibitive to go and see for yourself.
join WvW and note the class of the first 30+ different people you meet. That should take less time than most of our bug testing……thats been going on for 9 months and is still turning up huge game breaking bugs for the necro class.
why do you keep reporting my posts?
if you cant move on with the conversation dont post here?
try to absorb the advice I am giving you.
when I say go see for yourself we dont need a diatribe on how accurate the info is statistically because………
your just going to go see for yourself…..
I was speaking specifically about his reference to the population distribution between professions. It seems to be taken as a given in these discussions that there are substantially fewer Necros around than most everyone else but no one has been able to produce hard data to prove it.
nice back pedal
how bout you play the game and see for yourself
see how many thieves eles and mesmers you run into before you see 1 necro in wvw or ?pvp
you guys are gonna be so disappointed when the patch hits
I’m still predicting that a majority of their focus will be on the more populated classes.
Speaking of which, have you found the objective data to support that opinion yet?
find the original bug thread, read it
find the new bug thread, read it
now read the patch notes since release
fully objective proof
I really love that John said they were going to buff necromancers cast times and lifeforce accumulation. That’s awesome, especially good for condi necros.
yeah never heard him say something like that before and not follow through…
A 33% increase in power is a 33% increase in damage. Check the damage formula, everything is multiplicative.
And precision has more benefits than just increased damage. Pretty much every class has on-crit traits, and many of the best ones are minors, so they’re somewhat universal. Then there’s on-crit runes and sigils. To make precision be about increased damage, you have to / can invest in prowess (crit damage).
I realize this is in the Necro forum, so commenting about other classes may seem off-topic, but precision, critical hits, and stat sets are game-wide, so understanding them may require more than just necro-specific information.
the link you gave me includes a weapon skill coefficient so no 33% more power does not equal 33% more damage unless every skill specific coefficient for direct damage in the game is the same
(edited by Dredlord.8076)
300 power is a (1216/916) = 33% increase in damage. 40% crit chance is a (1.5 × 0.4 + 0.6) =20% increase in damage.
What exactly is the 0.6 part?
Anyway, there is something you forgot to mention (or I missed). With Knight gear, having just a little increase in crit damage boosts the damage quite a lot. For instance, spending 30 traitpoints into Soul Reaping gives a nice gap between Knight and Soldier in terms of damage.
it is the 60% of the time you dont crit.
I think why his math doesn’t match what people experience in game is he assumes a 33% increase in power is also a 33% increase in damage. it may be the case but I dont know. It is not the case with healing or condition damage stats.
If he is right then the devs have failed us again by making it so. A 2 offensive stat gear setup being equal to a 2 defensive stat gear set doing almost the same damage. actually now that I think about it, the devs are definitely capable of such an oversight.