Once upon a time, there was an online RPG. In this game, there were eventually some events added, late in the game’s life cycle, that forever altered certain parts of the world.
Of course, there were many, many people who hadn’t done those events yet. It would make no sense for them to see such changes already wrought.
Fortunately, the developers of this game made it so that instanced copies of its maps were generated, and if the team had nobody for whom the changes would apply, it appeared the old way. In some areas, EVERYONE had to have finished the content for a map to be in its “new” version.
Guild Wars 2, however, uses a persistent world. Scores of people can be on a map at once; over a hundred, in extremity. It would make absolutely no sense for different people, standing right next to each other, to see different things.
I can hear you asking, “Oh, but why not just make a separate version, and people flagged as having it enabled would go THERE instead!” Aside from the added resources this would take to maintain, it would prevent those people from doing things with the rest of the player base. And while one could say that grouping would somehow get around this, an end-user like me wouldn’t even begin to know how programmers would manage that in a persistent setting.
Both the instanced and persistent designs for MMORPGs have their strengths, and they have their weaknesses. It’s not a question of “which is better” (intrinsically a matter of personal opinion), it’s just that this is how Anet chose to make GW2, and anything they do must be able to work within it.
It’s random, not deterministic. So the fact that you made a profit early was due to chance, not design. Others will lose first and win later and still others won’t win at all. If you buy enough of them, all the data suggests you’ll eventually lose money.
So it’s just like playing roulette: if you’re on a hot streak, you’ll end up ahead as long as you stop. If you keep on playing, the house’s edge will eventually cancel out any streak.
So, just like gambling, if you don’t like the thrill of spinning the wheel (regardless of the results), don’t play the game.
It IS gambling. Let’s not lie, here. You are wagering gold and ecto, for a chance to make more gold and/or ecto in return. The fact that it’s not “real life” gambling doesn’t change that it is most definitely gambling.
“It is worse than a gamble. Waste of extreme amounts of gold and ecto.”
Now, listen here, Pilgrim – once again, that is gambling. Gambling is a waste of money. You either get lucky and stop, or the odds WILL eat you alive. Every casino in the world is built on this.
I tried it out once, just to say I tried it. I paid 5e and 40s. I got six ectoplasm and a junk item worth 10 silver. And then I stopped. I figure I may try it once a month, and will probably keep track of wins or losses. Just for curiosity’s sake.
On chat, I heard of people winning big, but I heard a lot more of how many lost big – including one who lost 700 gold (from savings for a legendary, no less!) to that skritt.
Why do they keep playing? Because, of course, they could win. Those who had initial winnings are heartened, and want to win more. Those who lost money will want to win it back. They’ll pay anything for one more spin of the wheel….
It, uh…. doesn’t waste charges, as far as I’ve ever seen. Oh, it’ll run the animation through to the end (and as you said, it’s easy to manually cancel that), but I’m pretty sure that it stops using up the tool after you empty the node.
How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?
Yeah, how DARE they treat one random drawing the same as another?
“We’re letting you play the expansion before anyone else. Other people who tried just as hard, sometimes harder, to get a golden ticket, didn’t and will be left out.” – Arenanet
“NO FAIR!” – “fans” lucky enough to get their ticket
SAB will return, but for the past while, Arenanet’s staff had things a little bit more pressing to work on.
Let’s take a look at your Ultimate package.
Ultimate €99,99
- Heart of Thorns expansion (+ core game)
- An additional character slot to try out the new Revenant profession
- A personal Merchant express, Bank access express and Trading post express for a week to start off your adventures in the Jungle!
- Access to Season 2 of the Living Story if not unlocked
- Miniature Revenant Rytlock
- Revenant Finisher
- Mordremoth’s Bane Guild Hall Decoration
- Heart of Thorns Glider skin
EXTRA- 4000 Gems (€50,00 value)
- One “instant level 80” item
- One “unlock all waypoints” item for all waypoints up to level 79 area’s (excludes Heart of Thorns maps)
- One “extra bank tab” unlock
- One “extra inventory tab” unlock
Fortunately, your Euros seem to convert 1:1 to US Dollars, at least as far as Arenanet’s pricing is concerned. Because I don’t have a Euro key on my keyboard.
Character slot: 800 gems ($10)
Bank, TP, Merchant express: 120 gems separately, but there’s a 100-gem bundle for them… and this is one-USE, not one-week. You gonna ask them to code a new item to give you for free? ($1.25)
Season 2: up to 1280 gems ($16)
Miniature: Usually 500 gems for the unique ones ($6.25)
Finisher: 500-800 gems; I’ll be very generous and assume this one’s 500 ($6.25); one like this would most likely cost 800, comparing the types that cost that
4000 Gems: 4000 gems ($50)
Bank Tab: 600 gems ($7.50)
Bag Slot: 400 gems (one character only) ($5)
Value of the above: $102.25.
Remaining items on the list:
Heart of Thorns (+GW2)
Guild Hall decoration
Glider Skin
Insta-80 item
Insta-waypoint-unlock
Do you STILL think your suggestion is fair? You want Anet to pay YOU to play the expansion, and you want them to code, from scratch, items to instantly raise you to level 80 and unlock all the waypoints, because who needs to PLAY the game to accomplish anything? Surely not YOU.
What is EVEN the point of insta-80? Of waypoint unlocks? WHAT need is there for either? You don’t even NEED the former, because this game hands out experience items like candy!
Arenanet staff put thousands of man-hours into making this game. They did so because they were under the assumption they would be paid a wage that allowed them to eat and keep a place to live. According to YOU, they should contribute money to YOUR pocket, so you can play video games.
… … You know, I can’t even go any farther. If I don’t send this post right now, I’m going to fly clear off the handle. As much as I dislike this forum’s overuse of a certain word, right now I’m finding it suits you most admirably. I leave you with the following final advice: If you don’t think you’re getting enough content for your money, then don’t buy the expansion; you can continue playing GW2 forever (er, as long as it exists) without it, they’ve made that clear myriad times.
Pre-purchase bonus character slot- to a dev
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
Hmm. Before seeing your comment about getting a 65th, I was going to post what was said on the list of features I got when I prepurchased yesterday: “Note: You may not receive items for which you’ve already reached the limit.”
Nice to hear that they chose to up the limit, then….. although, like many others, I cannot fathom having that many. My altoholism is worse on this game than any other I’ve played (currently 14, with an eventual goal of 18, 2*profession), but I insist all my characters be for real (even the least played ones – they’re not just for mules or gathering; if I make a character, I want to USE it).
I don’t think the players who spent a lot of time farming to try a beta see it that way.
However they interpreted it, they were told, explicitly, what the Portal would offer them. It never implied anything more or less than that. WYSIWYG.
At present, I find the final death of any DE member unlikely, but of the lot, Eir’s characterization thus far makes her the most likely candidate – starting, pretty much, from her suicide mission in Honor of the Waves (SM).
As I’ve said in other threads, they should not force a death JUST to create drama – but out of the group, Eir is currently the most likely to find death in a narratively-natural manner.
If she is missing, or as has been suggested in this thread, captured, then Braham finding her bow and becoming a Dragonhunter would seem very fitting, to me. Her own progression to Druid would follow fairly naturally, as her temperament in her semiretirement (evident even as the norn mentor in the original Personal Story) lend her a “sage-like” air. I could totally see her taking on such a role in norn society.
Well, either that, or back to stonecutting. She could make an epic monument to Braham. Maybe with Taimi on his shoulder and being pinched by Frostbite. Gotta capture the essence of his legend, you know.
Did Rytlock come across....? (Spoiler?)
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
Thank you, HotHit. I was wondering if anyone even remembered Obsidian Armor anymore. (Not that it was EVER as fashionable as everyone pretended; I only thought it looked good on three professions, and one of those only if you ignored the headgear.)
Those jagged black spikes are a hallmark of Obsidian Armor, the king of prestige armors by cost. The NPC who makes it – a ghostly four-le… err, centaur named only the “Eternal Forgemaster” – inhabits the Mists (specifically, the Fissure of Woe, where Balthazar resided before the Silence). Rytlock leaped into the Mists.
While the reason was the sword, its lack was tangential to the point of my original post, which was the Obsidian Armor. Will it become a player-accessible skin? Who knows? Eventually, I’m sure, but I’m not sure it’d thematically tie into Heart of Thorns. Me, I just wanted to see if anyone agreed that Revenant Rytlock’s new armor style is likely to be that set.
Did Rytlock come across....? (Spoiler?)
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
And none of you noticed the thing I noticed about the armor, then?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/9/98/Mini_Revenant_Rytlock_Brimstone.jpg
(Not the best angle to show off the spikes; the armor’s shaded on this side and ALL looks dark.)
As I said: I haven’t seen such a fashion statement in 250 years.
Upgraded account; questions about new slots.
in Account & Technical Support
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
Thanks. So it was my second guess, then.
Did Rytlock come across....? (Spoiler?)
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
Did Rytlock come across the Eternal Forgemaster while he was in the Mists? Because, while the first thing I noticed about his miniature was the distinct lack of Sohothin (the reason he jumped in), the second thing I noticed was that his armor was studded with glossy black spikes, many of which curved or twisted.
I haven’t seen such a fashion statement in 250 years.
Upgraded account; questions about new slots.
in Account & Technical Support
Posted by: Duke Darkwood.4237
Posting this here instead of at HoT because it’s a query about an ambiguity I’m seeing on the roster screen.
Before, I had 15 of 16 characters.
I purchased Ultimate Edition HoT, so should be given two.
I now have “15 of 17” as what they tell me, and a manual count shows 18, the last one marked as “BETA”.
THAT left me confused. If it were still 15 of 16, I’d understand that I get the slots on HoT release. If it were 15 of 18, I’d understand that they gave it to me straight away (I do note that all in-game items are already delivered). Instead, I have 15 of 17, plus “Beta”.
Leading to (finally) my questions:
Does this “BETA” slot become a normal slot on release?
Or is the beta slot going to vanish, and you simply haven’t finished implementing the new free slot since it was added later?
Either way, I’ve no complaints with anything, just got a bit of confusion over this.
On the bright side, this change happened because repairs were made to the story (quests that were cut were re-implemented, and they were very well worth keeping).
What happened was, the revamp to a “chapter-based” format removed one of the most character-defining story arcs in the game (the “Greatest Fear” arc, dependent on a choice made when you got the vision from the Pale Tree). It also shuffled quests so that “Trahearne’s mission” (cleansing Orr) and “your mission” (destroying Zhaitan) were separated, when originally they wove together, as two concurrent threads. While this was done to distinguish the two themes, it unfortunately left it feeling artificial; running them together was designed to flow naturally.
So, they changed back the order, and reinstated the lost segment. Just so you know WHY a change was made.
This means my own character in the middle of chapter 8 might have to restart, too (despite having completed the Greatest Fear arc shortly before the… realignment). In fact, I’m still at the login screen, so…
Hrm. Mine’s still on “What the Eye Beholds”, possibly because I had done those quests before the original realignment. Either that, or it’ll inform me after the mission, as happened to you.
Either way, not really that big a problem. After so long a wait, I could use the refresher.
Oh, for crying out loud…. how did I miss this?
So if your a veteran of the game, bought GW2, pre-purchased the Heart of thorns expansion, you get to pay twice as much as someone just buying heart of thorns. and the same goes for any other expansion? so a veteran not only pays twice as much but all they get is one character slot extra? that is one hell of an expensive character slot. should get at least 5. which is the amount you get in GW2. WHICH WE PAID FOR.
The Standard Edition of Heart of Thorns costs $50. Five character slots also costs $50.
You therefore believe that an expansion with thousands of man-hours put into its development should be free. You believe that five of an existing item that has been in the code since GW2’s own launch should be granted to you, devaluing the worth of the actual product you are buying.
You were given five character slots, one bank tab, and one allotment of materials storage when you bought GW2 in the first place. (Gem Store value: $67.50 U.S.) How much did you pay for the game, then?
Those “5 slots + 1 bank + 1 materials” are already free. YOU got them free when you bought GW2. Newcomers get them free when they buy HoT. These two things cancel each other out.
What you SHOULD be comparing is the core GW2 content against the $10 “loyalty slot”. While that still is a huge disparity, at least $40 is much closer to the price we expect to pay for an expansion (these days, they’re usually $35).
For a game with no subscription fee and no mandatory cash shop purchases, that sounds like a fair deal. Depending, of course, on the content of HoT.
Meaning, in the end, the same choice is presented as in my previous post: You get it, or you don’t.
I agree, “veteran player appreciation” would be if they gave vets a slot regardless of when they upgrade, not only if they decide to buy a cat in a bag. It’s a test of faith if anything.
Finally, another person who actually gets what I’m saying.
Oh, we get what you’re saying. We’re just not sure what part of it is “misleading”. They are telling us exactly what’s up: loyalty slot with preorders only. We understand that. Just as we understand your own point. The question is, you said Arenanet is misleading us: so tell us where.
Hmm. I’m not sure “misled” is the right term. It’s all there in the faq – the point I want to make is that the extra character slot is only given if you pre-purchase. Whether that’s fair or not is personal opinion.
Exactly.
The reason for the loyalty slot is because of all the negative reactions veterans had over the whole “paying the same price as new players who are getting a free GW2 thrown at them”. Arenanet’s reply was to give us something for free. Something that may not equal the full value of GW2 itself, but brings the cost of the expansion down closer to what people expect to pay for expansions.
This is what the loyalty slot is doing. No more, and no less. The expansion itself remains what it was before this addition. Anyone who preorders knows this going in. Anyone who chooses not to preorder also knows this. Our choices are EXACTLY the same as before – preorder, or don’t – with the only change that longtime players are getting acknowledged with a small gift.
So, we are NOT being misled. We are being given a gift for our whining. The most misleading thing here right now is this thread’s title.
If Anet wants SOME angst but not maximum, He’ll find her bow in wreckage of the pact fleet, (possibly with her pet) but no signs of her. He makes use of it himself, while frantically trying to find signs of her survival and eventually Eir returns as a druid after wandering the jungle after whatever odd plot stuff happens to her.
I quite like that as an alternative.
I don’t particularly want to see Eir die, or any of D.E. come to that. Oh. Logan. The jury’s out on Logan still.
Oh, Logan’s fine, now that he’s gotten over himself and is actually working to fix his relations with DE. Just… keep him away from his girlfriend. She really doesn’t need his help, and he can’t make good decisions when she’s around.
As fior the oft-repeated “Someone in DE must die!” argument…. why?
I don’t mean that as an argument against them ever dying. I do mean that there would have to be more reason than “we haven’t killed anyone lately, we need some drama”. Writing a death simply to fulfill a narrative checklist item is NOT a good reason. (Don’t you dare bring up Martin. I’ll save you the trouble. He’s writing a colossal war story run by total jerks; people are going to die in droves.)
A passing of the torch, I can totally understand. But they shouldn’t force a death just for the sake of the drama. (That said, indications throughout the storyline place Eir as the most likely candidate if someone does die.)
Hot Vanilla (nothing added) for $35 would have went over really well. I think a large majority would have slapped down the credit card and purchased it right away. That missing fourth purchasing option is what created all the havok this week.
This is basically what I think they should have done, too. This or the character slot thing (which I do not think “necessary” just because a class was added, but DO think it would cover the price disparity).
Guild Wars 1 had no monthly sub fee AND not a fraction of the gem store that we have today and they still gave us 2 characters slots with each xpac…. Your argument is invalid
GW1 “expansions” were much more frequent.
A pace they knew they couldn’t maintain, with each game – as a potential starting point – requiring full tutorials, each larger than the last due to increasing amounts of game mechanics. And the creeping increase in assets.
GW2 also takes a lot more work since it came out of the gate with more things to code than all of GW1 had to worry about.
As for character slots? You still couldn’t make one of every class without buying any. You would be short by two (or four, if you had Factions alone, Nightfall alone, or Factions+Nightfall as your only two). Still a lesser disparity than GW2’s, but it’s there.
Mooncaller, your post is way too long to quote and leave room for the rest of what I need to say, so let me just say this: I agree with most of your sentiments despite being on the opposite side of the issue (as I intend to get one of the upper versions anyway, and forfeit my right to complain about the cost). I do feel that the Standard package is a raw deal for those precise reasons.
Now, Aiden, you’ve made some comments I simply have to address:
“A new player gets
5 free slots
A bank tab
A material tab”
If you count all of this as “value” in the game’s purchase price, then release buyers of GW2 ($60, Standard Ed.) got all its regular content for cheaper than free, because $50 of it went to the character slots, $7.50 toward the vault, and $10 toward material storage. This means that the “value” of the world of Tyria and the Zhaitan Campaign cost $-7.50.
You should be weighing GW2’s content against HoT’s (and it’s still be unbalanced because HoT will include GW2), and ignore the slots and vault as being “default game capacity” for their respective features.
“Content like maps and living story which will undoubtedly be on those maps that can can only be accessed by purchasing the expansion thereby locking out those who don’t buy it is absolutely a Paywall.”
In all my time on Guild Wars 2, I have never heard anyone say that Cantha, Elona, and the North were behind a paywall. Even though you couldn’t access them without paying. Nobody saw that as wrong. (People who started with Factions and Nightfall could even claim Tyria was behind a paywall, by your argument!) It was how expansions work. This is literally older than MMORPGs. Video games have had expansions at least since 1992 (the oldest expansion pack I personally own… that I can remember)! Even older still – collectible card games, tabletop role-playing games, even board games themselves (although very rarely) have had added-later, sold-separately additions!
So while I will support the argument over pricing, I WILL NOT say anyone should get Heart of Thorns access for free. That’d be like saying “I wish all Arenanet employees lost their home utilities and starved”. Because, you know, food and bills cost money. Arenanet employees earn theirs by programming for their games.
“I want exactly what a new play gets, the core game add-on which I’ll use as a storage account and HoT upgrading my current account.”
They do NOT get that. They do not have the option to disassociate the two. Therefore, you are not wanting “exactly what a new player gets”.
P.S. While I do support the idea that the Standard Edition is giving veterans a raw deal, the reason I did not push that angle in this post is because Arenanet hasn’t yet gotten to answering it in the places where it’s already addressed to them. Their silence only bothers me further; I remember an Arenanet that was proud of its transparency.
In this post, I’m simply replying to cases where the complaints are pushing too far and expecting more than their fair share. And while Aiden’s posts are the ones I chose due to his prominence in this particular thread, his sentiments echo countless others in other threads – my intent is not to single you out, Aiden, but simply to use you as a representative of them. Because it’s almost 3 A.M. and I can’t reply to each individual thread. (They’ll all probably fold into the primary thread, anyway.)
Just a quick interjection. Ideally a nonpartisan one, although I have no idea if it will be interpreted as such:
I think the TC’s primary complaint has nothing to do with either side. I think he’s just observing that we – all of us – are raising such an unholy stink over this that – no matter which side we’re on or how much we enjoy the game as it already exists – we’ve become a seething mass of “that customer who absolutely must complain to the sales clerk, then the customer service department, then the manager, and THEN demands to talk to the district supervisor”. And demanding that each of them come to wait on them, while they are holding up the line.
Arguments have been made. On both sides of this issue. And for the past five days, we have just been repeating them in louder voices.
So, yeah. That’s how the original post reads to me. Like a critique of our continuing behavior, not a judgment on the issue itself.
Naturally, the only logical reaction is to suddenly declare the TC is on whichever side you oppose, and is now a valid target for your ire. Good job proving TC right.
Critwrench:
“By default, Guild Wars 2 comes with FIVE character slots. This is already an inadequate number, forcing you to pay 30 dollars extra if you want to play all of the base classes.”
GW1 still left us two short, no matter how many campaigns we got. (If you get Factions or Nightfall as your first game, you start four short.) Also, GW2 isn’t GW1.
Fegzig:
“I can not wait until tempers die down and we all can just enjoy HoT.”
The only reason I’m not giving your post a +1 is because I oppose the post-vote system as a whole and always have. This is a forum, for discussions as equals. Not a popularity contest.
But I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment.
MMOGamer:
“It’s not free.”
I think he was talking about the content updates (Living Story, Feature Packs, etc.). We bought and paid for the game at release (and I will include the initial bugfixing patches of the early months as part of what we paid for, since, you know, we didn’t pay for a broken product).
Everything after? Holiday festivals, new zones, story arcs? Completely free (excepting Season 2, but only if you missed it firsthand). The only things we had to pay for were Gem Store stuff.
IF you count this added content as “paid for”, then how much of the purchase price do you value it at? For every penny you put in that pile, you are saying you paid that much less for the base game.
Arenanet didn’t have to give us free story updates. They didn’t even have to give us holiday festivals, in spite of it being “expected”. They did not have to give us three new map zones. When we bought the game, we bought access to the core world and campaign.
Saying “we paid for the extras” is, quite frankly, baloney (which is, itself, a baloney spelling of bologna – it’s that much more fake!). We paid for the released product, and the only things we can count as Arenanet’s “obligation” were the bugfixes to said base product.
(Heart of Thorns is another matter altogether, but enough has been said about that, on both sides, that I refuse to add more to the fire.)
I’m in a difficult position. I want the expansion, and feel that (since I am considering Ultimate likely right now) the sum total of what I get WILL be worth the purchase price (but not in the way they imply – that IS $50 of gems, after all, and I’m a frequent shopper of cosmetics and account upgrades).
But on the other hand, Standard Edition’s pricing is simply unconscionable towards loyal players. I get what they’re doing, for new players – I do. But applying that key to a game that already has the core game should have some alternative to compensate. It doesn’t have to be much, even $10 worth would be something.
So, for now, I am going to hold off. Not just on the purchase, but on the decision.
You don’t have to change the prices of Deluxe and Ultimate, Arenanet. You don’t even, technically, have to change the price on Standard. Just make… make a HoT-Only edition. Price it at $30-35. Or, alternately, make the Standard Edition give a nominal, non-exclusive reward (basically, something that exists in-game, but would at least show you care) to accounts that already have the base game.
I’ve been supporting your work for nine years. I still have a lot of faith in you. But right now, your actions are imposing on that faith. Primarily as regards your community relations – something that, until John Smith posted, had been a mostly positive experience.
At the very, very least, you owe us a better reply than “You rang?” Not replying at all would have earned you less animosity than that.
When certain officials in high places have a vested interest in discrediting someone, they make his claims fail. As Anise habitually knows more than she lets on at all times, she may in fact have some reason to consider it might actually not be his fault in truth. (That, however, I cannot be sure of.)
And Toxsa, Jennah dying would be a very bad thing for the humans of Tyria, as it would put people who care more about their own interests than working with the orders and other races to defeat globally-threatening dragons.
This is completely aside from the fact it ends the Doric bloodline, as, for all that Doric was an important guy and did some important stuff, I’m not sure there is any special significance to descending from him, except as proof of royalty, which Adelbern proved was not necessary, back before he went crazy.
As for Jennah herself, she clearly is capable and competent at her job, despite the Ministry’s attempts to make her appear otherwise. One need only see the exchange between her, Logan, and Caudecus at the end of CM story to see that.
Why can’t these sheeple recognize that any change is bad, and they’re just blinded by their fondness for the game?
I’m sorry. I can’t tell if your post is sarcastic or not, largely because I simply cannot get over your use of that…. that…. thing. (It’s not a word! It’s NOT!)
“The dragons and giant enemies are just fog banks, buildings, or parade floats, and this world has thousands of delusional Don Quixotes on their own adventures!”
Since someone else already brought xkcd into this: https://xkcd.com/556/
““The DeLorean cannot time travel because it’s made of low grade aluminum and not high conductive unobtanium which is used to time travel.””
The Flux Capacitor is what makes time travel possible! And, if you’re going to build a time machine out of a car, you may as well do it with some style.
“Why can I rub people’s toes to bring them back to life?”
You should move closer to them before hitting F. Corpses get more action than the people playing them.
“I can’t believe someone made a thread about this and it’s still on the first page and going on three pages long”
I can’t believe I was on the second page before noticing how old the posts I’m replying to are…. and it’s STILL on the front page!
“On the other hand, Larry Niven goes out of his way in his Gil Hamilton (and Magic Goes Away) stories to provide all the science (or magic) needed to solve mysteries long before the end of each tale.”
We’re skirting very close to Clarke’s 3rd, aren’t we?
“‘Floating rocks could use some wings, but they are fine like this.’
Science has yet to discover winged rocks.”
Science is slacking off. I demand winged rocks! DWAYNAAAAAAAAAAA!
“‘Tequatl is not normal everyday magic.’
I agree. Dragons are no David Blaine or Criss Angel.”
What ever happened to Harry Blackstone?
“Well actually I am winning because I still don’t see Tequatl having a keel anywhere in his body.”
Winning how? Ignoring all arguments about why it is theoretically possible in a magical setting doesn’t mean you’re winning.
Also, since when is a keel needed for flight? Owls don’t have keels. Bats don’t have keels. Eagles don’t, either. Dragonflies don’t. Bumblebees certainly don’t.
Besides. Ellen Kiel can’t fly, so having a “keel” (same pronunciation!) is no guarantee.
“Also, Star Wars technology is still more believable than Tequatl.”
Tequatl is magical, not technological, so obviously. But as they went on to mention the Force, I wonder if you find that as believable?
“it’s dark matter and that is most certainly not just a fantasy, we just call it differently.
also, he was talking about the technology, not the force.”
Doesn’t mean you can ignore the fact that someone levitated a crashed ship with the power of his mind.
“Do you have a source to backup these claims? Or are you just inventing this as you go?”
You have not yet proven that magic cannot imbue Tequatl with flight.
“Actually, the fact that we keep engaging his silliness, and the thread keeps going, is a kind of win for Dawnbreaker.
Still waiting for the answer on how DB goes about breaking dawn. Hope I didn’t miss it somewhere back in the last two pages.”
I just answered it today. He salvaged Dawn, breaking it into components. Hope it was worth the wait.
And yes, I realized half a page ago the point of this thread. Oh well.
" I have to continue my journey around the Earth to break the next wall so as to unlock the Earth’s rotation and keep it spinning, allowing for the dawn to get to all the parts of the world. It is a very busy job."
………..
And you have the gall to not believe Tequatl can fly!?
I believe someone once said “Do you have a source to backup these claims? Or are you just inventing this as you go?”
Also, I find your ascii diagram untenable. It’s clearly a straight line, when, as we all know, the surface of the Earth is curved. That diagram throws your coherence straight out.
“If GW2 had earth’s mechanics, then (even assuming you could still cast spells):”
All that, and you didn’t even mention the use of lightning spells underwater? For shame.
“Dragonflies wouldn’t be bigger than asura (since surface area:mass ratio would prevent them from having enough energy to survive).”
Bad example. Dragonflies can get pretty big. As it is, we’ve got ones with bodies a foot long, and prehistorically, we’ve evidence for ones that are presumed to have weighed over a pound (about .45 kg) and been the size of “a crow” (real helpful).
The inverse square law would kick in eventually, but they might be able to reach asuran size…. they’d probably have to eat asura, though.
“Gravity in Tyria is not universal but only comes into play when you are trying to make that last delicate jump to complete an annoying JP or Vista so it doesn’t effect Tequatl abilty to fly.”
Best post in thread. (Runner up: “I believe Tequatl can fly” song at end of page 1.)
“But then if Tequatl can fly anytime then why does it land at all? Couldn’t it just grab something really big with its mouth and drop it on the megalazer? Or on the crowd of players?…”
Magic takes energy. Magical energy, but still.
“It’s impossible to “break” the dawn. Please explain me your name.”
Possbly means salvaging the exotic greatsword, Dawn. I’m sure that’s very possible.
“For that matter, my mesmer makes a greatsword levitate and shoot a purple ray at things. I believe at the moment that is also impossible according to our understanding of physics.”
As I said: mesmers.
“It’s like living material but it has decayed.”
Birds are living material, and have different bone densities than other living material even of similar size. Many birds are considerably larger than mice. They can fly. Mice cannot.
(okay, this will take one more)
“Dragons are beings of magic.”
I’m gonna go with this. Now, setting aside the “it’s a fantasy setting, logic need not apply”, dragons (in this game) are magic. They can get away with more than most fantasy things.
I do NOT believe we can entirely discard logic; the setting needs to have its own internal logic that it will adhere to. In other words, “magic has rules”. At least a few. And GW2 does. Thing is, the more magic you pour into something, the more it can bend the “physical” rules. Elder Dragons eat magic for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. A mass of vaguel draconic skeletons woven into a gigantic dragon form, for example, is the kind of stuff Zhaitan can get away with. His premier lieutenants can at least get away with flying.
In some fantasy games, there are spells that can be used to make the caster fly, no matter their size or shape. If nothing else, we can apply this to explain Teq.
“Drake: Another distant relative to dragons. Even less intelligent than wyverns. Generally wingless.”
In most settings, “drake” seems to be “young dragon”. “Wyrmling” is a term I don’t believe I’ve seen more than a handful of times, although “hatchling” is commonly used (but generally refers to complete infancy).
“’But there’s gravity in game just like in real life…’
NOT ANYMORE
Meet CHRONOMANCER "
That’s a mesmer. Mesmers don’t follow rules. Physics, nature, magic, reality…. mesmers tell them all to sit down and shut up. (And no, don’t say they follow the rules of fashion. They MAKE the rules of fashion.)
(to be continued)
yeah same here. I really hope we get a dragonite eater soon. http://i.imgur.com/V4hY9RL.jpg
By Balthazar’s beard!
You need a Dragonite Bin, which you can then fill with these and go swimming in.
Oh, and Dante, have you noticed anything odd about your signature?
Elite Specializations are going to be the “post-80 horizontal progress” they promised us, so excluding a profession from it would indeed be a poor decision.
Personally, I’m hoping that they opt to expand on the idea; just ONE choice of elite spec doesn’t sound like a good way to customize growth. I’m sure it’s development-intensive, so we can probably expect only one at HoT’s release, but I’m personally hopig for them to slip more in, possibly with those “Feature Packs” they sometimes give us.
I mean, just imagine – sure, a Guardian could go “Dragonhunter”, and they’d get a Longbow…. but maybe, instead, they’re also given an alternate option, that gives, Idunno, offhand mace? (Guardians at present have no “dual wielding” at all, and mace seems like the right one to throw in.)
Just as an example of what I mean. Of course, you can only select one (at a time; I’m sure you can respec just as you can with normal traits), but with more options, it would sell the “customization” angle a bit more.
A bit late in seeing it, perhaps, but thanks for the link, Illconceived. It actually seems that a guess I made on map chat the other day was exactly right – the exploit was easily fixed, and it’s sorting out “who earned what” that’s holding them up.
In reply to Megumi’s early suggestion in this thread – not even all of us who had a maxed hall at release have every skin unlocked. I had been taking unlocks as I needed them, both before and after the Wardrobe update, and never would have imagined an issue like this arising, so I never felt the need to do a mass-unlock. (I can assure you it will be the first thing I do once we get the all-clear, however!)
I can be patient. I understand the challenges; I know people who program, and would never assume their work is as easy as it looks to us end-users. I am, perhaps, a bit antsy, but reading that dev post has alleviated that – the fact that the developers are keeping things in the open does a lot to help keep things calm.
I do have faith it will be fixed. And while I wish it would be as soon as possible, I’ll try to keep my impatience to a minimum – so long as we know that it is being worked on; nobody wants to think it’s being forgotten about.
Knowing Kiel would resort to underhanded method to win the election, Evon knew that he’d need a large campaign warchest. Stealing Gold from the Aetherblade pirates helps to deprive Scarlet’s minions from funds needed to maintain their large fleet of airships. Being the smart charr that he is, Evon killed two birds with one stone. He dealt a financial blow to the enemy, while helping his cause when running for Captain’s Council.
Every chest of Aetherblade loot Kiel retrieved, she returned to the original owners the Aetherblades stole from. She rebuked the one subordinate who suggested otherwise.
Also, EVERY single “vote bribe” that dropped throughout that entire election carried Evon’s name.
I’m not going to voice my personal opinions on Ellen Kiel or Evon Gnashblade here. I could. At length. But I won’t; not here and now. I’m just laying out the facts of the events that did occur. I will let people draw their conclusions based on these actions.
I do, however, have one unrelated question: How is Evon’s right-hand sylvari doing? I haven’t seen Sareb in ages.
2H sword? Kilroy Stonekin? What madness do you speak? Brass Knuckles are more than enough for him to beat things senseless!
The main reason they wanted to avoid the Trinity is that, in Trinity-centric games, it’s not so much about the trinity itself, as it is how it affects the players’ mindset.
First off, the NEED for each corner of the trinity. You could not go anywhere without one of each role.
Second, the lack okittennowledgement (partially tied into the “everyone is too absorbed in their part of the fight”) – You’re so busy watching enemy aggro as the tank, that you don’t actively acknowledge the healer keeping you alive, for example.
Which leads to the blame: If the tank DOES die, whose fault is it? Clearly the healer’s, and no one else’s. If the DPS dies, it’s either the healer, failing to keep them alive, or the tank, failing to hold enemy attention. And if enemies start going after the healer, it’s the whole front line’s fault for failing to stop the enemy.
And then there’s the entitlement. This is what happen when the lack okittennowledgment I mentioned earlier meets the other player’s ego. Why are they not praising the tank for holding the enemy so well? Where’s the love for the DPS, who did the actual killing? And the healers…. hoo boy! Without the healers, everybody dies – they hold the power of life and death, and they can WITHhold that same power!
It’s just a few months before I joined GW1, but there was once an…. incident… in that game. One that lives in infamy in the minds of all who were there. It was the Great Monk Strike of Thunderhead Keep. (Which brings us back to my FIRST point, about how difficult it is to function without all parts of the trinity!)
Guild Wars 2 consciously chose to avoid this. And it succeeded at that goal – for all the talk of a “new trinity”, you can essentially do all group content with pretty much any mix, provided everyone knows what to do in that content.
It’s not a perfect system, I’ll admit – the aversion of the trinity has led most to take a soloist attitude to the game, even, to an extent, when doing group content.
As always, “When It’s Ready”. They played the same game with us in 2010-11. Hyping it up is all part of the plan – and they need to buy time to actually DO the work, make sure it’s done right.
First, the Elementalist, in April 2010.
The rest of the year saw : Warrior (June), Ranger (July), and Necromancer (August).
Then 2011 saw Guardian in January, Thief in March, Commando in April, Engineer in May,…
….; and FINALLY gave us Minst*cough*Mesmer*cough*rel in December, fifteen months after they started this whole thing.
One specialization every two weeks is a bit better of a pace.
Oh. My personal estimate on a release date would be Q3. Late Summer/Early Fall. But that is 100% guessing.
Necro 2h is not ranged they will most likely get shouts though
I cringe every time someone says this. Spirits dood.
Cringe now, Lily. Shockingly enough, drkmgic was right on the money – the reaper is melee and a shouter. (Except its shouts hurt.)
I’m not really sure about this whole concept of “elite specializations borrowing from other classes”, seems kind of a step backwards in establishing class identities. (Some, however, will probably appreciate the return of the GW1 “secondary”. Let us only hope it does work in GW2.)
We would need well-known Ritualist.
… I’m curious as to why, exactly.
I agree that Togo is certainly the most notable Ritualist in GW1, though. I’m just wondering why we’re assuming a “need” for a specific legend type.
With Jalis and Mallyx as examples, I’m actually inclined to think they’re going for non-standard archetypes, here. (Especially going with the Great Dwarf angle for Jalis.)
Kilroy Stonekin would be an awesome one, though. I see no practical reason for him to be added (therefore I’m guessing it unlikely – especially since we’re already getting a dwarven fighter!), just commenting on the sheer aweseomeness of the idea.
If there’s a double standard employed, it’s not true feminism.
Feminism is just supposed to be about equality.
I’m not going to get into this, just because it’s too charged of a subject, but technically, feminism simply is anyone promoting womens’ rights. It’s there in the name; it doesn’t say anything one way or the other about the guys. (This is why a great many well-known feminists sport views that don’t seem very “equal” – but that’s the part I don’t plan to get into.) For equality, you’d need a neutral term, like egalitarianism.
It’s a semantic quibble, sure, but it still is what it is.
Regarding the outfit: Looks nice. Looks a bit odd on my male warrior, but then, he’s a digified human noble. I could probably pull the look off on my male norn ele; ruggedly braving the elements and all that.
Regarding male showy armors in general: We got basically two light sets (but ONLY because flamekissed’s chest piece is based on feathered; it’s really one that may or may not be on fire) and at least three heavies (Gladiator, Pit Fighter, and Braham’s). GW1’s own Gladiator was showing off guys as well, and Elite Gladiator took that to a level GW2 has yet to match (Braham’s comes closest so far). Mediums don’t come in showy, for the guys. It’s all longcoats or rugged leathers.
For outfits, we’re up to two: Raiment of the Lich, and now this one.
Overall, it’s still pretty paltry, but it’s a fair sight better than you can expect from most MMOs.
Also, before we forget: Speedo Faren. (Next April 1st, make everyone look like him, OK?)
Personally, I blame Lord Faren.
It was funny when he did it, because he’s Lord Faren. But yeah, for it to catch on like it has…..
Personally, I think the residents’ nickname for the city should be “the Reach”.
I have no problem with LA for Lion’s Arch; it’s more of a multicultural hub, more… metropolitan, in some ways. I can well imagine it taking on the abbreviation as a nickname.
But DR shouldn’t be DR. “The Reach” has a better ring to it.
The issue here is, selling keys wouldn’t be fair either, on account of biasing toward players with more money. Arenanet is trying to give a fair chance to anyone (who has an 80, anyway). And yes, RNG is fair. You have exactly the same odds as everyone else participating. Odds that are low by design – they can’t let EVERYONE in.
Which is another reason they can’t sell it. ESPECIALLY for gold – too easy for too many to get gold (and some would just buy gems to convert to gold).
So glad I’m not bending over backwards on this. Sure, I’m hitting the place daily, sometimes twice, but I’m not spending every playing hour in those maps, and if I don’t get a portal – that’s that. What’s the real big deal, right? I’ll get to play the game eventually anyway.
I do agree that for beta-ing, it’s not ABOUT “playing first”. I was in the GW2 betas, and while it was an enjoyable experience, I was also keeping an eye out for anything to report or submit feedback on.
Besides: This probably isn’t the last test, and GW2’s own last few betas were open, AND had a way to “buy in” (pre-purchasing the game in full). So…. don’t really see the need to fuss over things.
What it comes down to is that a new race would require writing Level 1-80 content for them – especially for ones that cannot possibly have participated in the Zhaitan campaign – AND having to make armor models and character animations for every set of armor and every skill. (It’s not as simple as animating them in the same manner as a human, or something.)
That said, the tengu can rot after what they did during the Battle. Talon would be ashamed of their cowardice.
“If I remember rightly he accepted leadership of the Pact reluctantly. He has been put in this position because of his skills and knowledge of understanding and defeating Zhaitan.”
That, and his neutrality. As a member of an existing Order, the PC would not be seen as unbiased. Trahearne was known to and respected by high-ranking members of all three Orders.
“I think the Pale Tree kept the secret from the rest of the Sylvari in an attempt to protect them.”
Basically. As long as the Dragon slept, and as long as she was providing this protection, why risk a revelation that could turn the world entire against her children? Plus, there’d always be the concern that some of them might reject the Dream and embrace this other nature.
Reminds me. To whoever made the earlier comment about “locked into” the Dream, that’s not even how it works. We’ve met Soundless who had been Dreamers, but were working to put the Dream behind them. (At least one failed, and returned to Astorea, going by NPC ambient dialogue.) Similarly, we know that the Nightmare Court tries to twist Dreamers and Soundless alike to the Nightmare.
The Dream is as much a choice as anything else in life, basically. And the Pale Tree herself sees them all as her children – not just the Dreamers. She cares for the Soundless even though they chose to leave her shelter and protection. And she even worries about her wayward children who have fallen to Nightmare.
So, for all Grove Sylvari, the Dream is not something you are “locked” into or out of, but a choice – the choice to accept the Dream – that you can always change your mind about.
… this probably doesn’t apply to Malyck, since he’s not born of this Tree. We really know nothing about his kin, only that they have no Dream in the first place. I am not sure an outsider Sylvari could join the Grove Pale Tree’s Dream, since they have no connection to her.
As for the points made in Cherokeewill’s and Carlin’s recent posts: I will go so far as to say that Trahearne probably has a general knowledge in the Elder Dragons at large, although, yes, his extensive study of Zhaitan was specific to that one dragon.
He knew OF Mordremoth, something very few even among the Sylvari seemed to, and I agree with the general consensus that he pushed for an offensive based on the fact that Mordremoth was so newly-awakened.
The problem? Apparently, Mordy is a morning person, and woke up bight-eyed and thorny-tailed. (Either that, or ley line energies have a bigger kick than a pot of coffee.)
First, to the topic at hand: How are you levelling, specifically? If you’re grinding kills, stop. That’s so inefficient, it makes inefficient things look good in comparison.
EXP gains from kills and from gathering resources are TINY. The good sources are Events, Exploration, “Heart” Quests, and Storyline Quests. (Dungeons are even better, but require meeting each dungeon’s level minimum, AND having good teamwork. They’re group content.) WvW and Edge of the Mists are also good, once you get used to their flow – if you like the competitive side of things. (Just keep your gear updated – your level is upscaled, but your gear is only upscaled proportionate to your level!)
“This is one of the fastest leveling MMOs i’ve played.”
Basically. Although, I have only played a few MMOs myself. But my brother and a few of my friends are aficionados of the genre, so I’ve at least some secondhand exposure. In many games, the experience curve gets steeper and steeper, rising almost exponentially. And at the same time, doing the same things at higher levels gets you less experience, eventually reaching the point where it’s so trivial that you get nothing.
In GW2, the experience curve is a lot closer to linear than to exponential, meaning that each successive level only takes approximately 10% more than the last (roughly; I don’t have exact figures on hand). And due to dynamic scaling of levels, you do NOT earn less experience when doing old content – you actually earn more due to a modifier based on your level. So, once you breeze past the early levels, you settle into a pace where each level takes about as long as the one before. No more, no less.
“you have quite a big mouth talking like that, my first lvl 80 took me about 8 months, my second took me about 14 months.”
It’s really all subjective. It took me four months, myself, but I never felt the need to “rush”. I’d say your 3-5 hours per day estimate would be applicable to me (ok, maybe 4-7; I was seriously hooked in the months after release, only scaling to “reasonable” after about 6-7 months), with more on days I had free.
I never understood the drive for people TO rush, personally. To me, the journey is all part of the fun. I’m not on a deadline, and, unlike some MMOs, this game has content at all level ranges. (Well, less below 30, since they kind of want you to have a full skillbar for most things.)
I will concede that the TC has a valid deadline, in that his free time will be curtailed in the near future. Depending on how curtailed, that might be reason enough to rush. But, as I said at the outset, you can easily gain those levels you need, as long as you remember what is and isn’t worth doing.
Oh, as for the guy commenting on EXP from dailies…
“I seem to remember that I used to get approximately half a level from completing daily when there was the 5 daily (1 AP each) system. I’m not sure where that figure lies now, "
About as good, still. Assuming you do all four PvE ones, and not the minimum three. You’ll usually get 5 EXP consumables (because there’s always a daily that awards two), which is instantly 25% of a level (each scroll is 5% of your current EXP bar). Coupled with the actions you do to get those dailies done, you get enough EXP that you’re making at least half a level a day, just off dailies.
Plus, just from logging in each day, you’re guaranteed 10 Tomes of Knowledge every four weeks. That’s ten entire levels, right there. (Potentially six more, IF you choose tomes from the Chest of Loyalty.)
(Remember that PvP and WvW dailies do not award the EXP consumable.)
In eight years, GW’s AFD jokes have never fundamentally affected gameplay mechanics. For that reason alone, I consider this extremely unlikely to ever happen.
And while this WOULD be a hilarious prank, it would almost certainly lead to more complaints than planes and bobbleheads combined. So even if Anet were inclined to consider the idea, the backlash would deter them from doing it in reality.
Even in standard PvE, the abuse potential would be ridiculous. Imagine Tequatl, for example. Or cheesing dungeons or story instances. And before you call that “harmless PvE fun”, consider that you earn AP from all those things, and are rewarded for your AP scores.
In the end, this would be opening a can of worms – only to find out that they’re siege wurms.
Interesting – but I could use a little clarification on these things.
- The Heroic Edition exclusives (armor, mithril box, boosters) – per account, or per character?
And second, is this applied retroactively to existing characters, or only newly-created ones?
First off, I noticed the Black Lion’s subforum seems to have vanished, so I’m defaulting to here; let me know if there’s a more appropriate location for this thread.
Anyway. Something’s been bugging me for a while now. Gem Store, Upgrades page, “Digital Deluxe Upgrade” – I got the Collector’s Edition of the game, so I should already have all the DDE content, should I not? Yet it says “You can buy 1 more at this price.” Why? What can it possible give me?
The ONLY thing I see unusual in this flavor text is the bullet point:
“includes all items from Guild Wars 2 Heroic Edition”
But isn’t that also the DDE bonuses? Or is there actually something worthwhile in this bundle even to the player who has a CE?
Like I said, this has nagged at me for a while, and with it suddenly on sale, I figured I should probably get to the bottom of things.
“They fear that sales will go down if they include taxes in the prices.”
So, it’s basically the same reason things are priced at x.99, or x.95, instead of x+1. A ruse to make you think something is cheaper than it is. (Never mind that it fails to fool most people – they’re just keeping their hopes up for the few who fall for such tricks.)
Anyway. I’ll point out that I live in Indiana, where I am reasonably certain there are no servers or offices for Arenanet or NCSoft at all… and I’m charged the usual 7% on gems. Cards or ingame purchases.
Now, I get the point of taxes. And I understand the growing trend of taxing online transactions, simply because of the extent to which they have supplanted certain types of physical transactions. I don’t bat an eye at having to pay tax when I order something physical online, whether my state is involved in its distribution or not.
I just kind of get annoyed at this ability to tax a completely digital currency in a completely digital setting that takes place in the ether itself. (I still live with it, I just think it’s pushing the limits on what qualifies as a taxable good.)
“Right, I read that as “unwittingly led his army into a devastating ambush””
Ditto.
“If I remember correctly, he resigned from the post before fighting Zhaitan — so why is he back to fight Mord’ when he’s suppose to be an “Orr expert”?”
Curious about that, myself. Attending the Summit was one thing – he had clout and dragon experience enough to earn him a seat. But even in Orr, he left military command to his second, the Pact Commander.
“That’s what you get for doing absolutely nothing and stealing the credit in killing Zhaitan!”
Did we play the same game, or are you thinking of Kormir?
Trahearne came to restore Orr. We came to kill the dragon. Together, we led the Pact through the Zhaitan Campaign. When we reached the Source of Orr, Trahearne handed us the army and stayed with his job. And, when we came back?
Marshal Trahearne and every single member of the Pact within Fort Trinity bowed to or saluted the Pact Commander. By which I mean us. NO credit was stolen. Trahearne heals Orr, we kill Zhaitan. Very clear-cut, IMO.
“This begs the question as to whether Malyck will be corrupt despite lack of pale tree influence as everyone knows he had a very noble personality.”
I worry about Malyck, for exactly this reason.
“Furthermore it is implied that without the Dream, sylvari can be corrupted by ANY Elder Dragon.”
I must have missed whatever implied that; I had assumed that they could not be corrupted by the other dragons because they are already dragon minions (they just didn’t know it).
“So ok, he gave command to me, but I don’t remember ever giving it back to him or him assuming the role again.”
If a general gives command of an army to a colonel, does that mean that the general is no longer in a position of authority?
Trahearne did not resign his position. He simply put the Commander, battle-leader and one meant to fight the dragon, in charge.
“I’m actually glad I didn’t brought him with me against Zhaitan — it would have been a disaster.”
He knew it as well, which is why he handed you the army.